When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

Oi.

Time to mirror. He texted earlier something to the tune of hey stranger, haven't talked for awhile. Wtf?

Phfft. Maybe he actually was that busy he didn't see my text or it didn't go through? Don't tell me he's just bored. I take that as an intro to I want to see you. In the past he has asked when I reply.

No mention of sorry didn't get your message? Idk.

Either way.... I'm on my way out anyway and wasn't going to reply til later once home. Or maybe Tmro.

I realize this will continue with him so long as I engage with him.

Now, I do want to get to know him. I KNOW my end goal is not casual relationship. However, I feel like I could give it a chance. I don't like the delayed responses or the other day the lack of response. That was diff from all times before.

Sitting on it.

[Leigh 87]

If he took two days to text you - you take two days to text him.

 

Mirroring...

 

And I have a fetish for Irish. It's their accents.

 

There are many in Sydney where I am. Many Irish pubs. Put it this way - if my ex wasn't Irish, I wouldn't have been so madly attracted to him. Give me any guy with an Irish accent, and I will be attracted to a guy I am NOT usually attracted to. Weird!

 

Current Irish guy has texted every day since the first date sex. Says he cannot wait until he finishes work tomorrow (valentines day).

 

I spoke with him about the early sex - I said look, I feel embarrassed it happened to quickly, how do you feel about that? He said " I don't think about it, we had a great time, it happened and it is not a bad thing, it doesn't change how I feel about a woman".

 

Time will tell though... I wonder if I should refrain from sex now or if it is too late for that....

 

In any case - Mirror R, he took X amount of days to text you so you do the same to him. Right back at him.

 

Anything else will make you look like the keen one. No one wants to be the too keen on. It should be even.

[losangelena]

Oi.

Time to mirror. He texted earlier something to the tune of hey stranger, haven't talked for awhile. Wtf?

Phfft. Maybe he actually was that busy he didn't see my text or it didn't go through? Don't tell me he's just bored. I take that as an intro to I want to see you. In the past he has asked when I reply.

No mention of sorry didn't get your message? Idk.

Either way.... I'm on my way out anyway and wasn't going to reply til later once home. Or maybe Tmro.

I realize this will continue with him so long as I engage with him.

Now, I do want to get to know him. I KNOW my end goal is not casual relationship. However, I feel like I could give it a chance. I don't like the delayed responses or the other day the lack of response. That was diff from all times before.

Sitting on it.

 

That's probably true. And this is where I'd say it's good to get clear on what you want, and then act accordingly. If your end goal is not a casual relationship, then don't act casual. Does this man seem like he's acting anything other than casual at the moment? Mmm ... not really.

 

You don't have to put up with the crappy, inconsistent, taking forever text messaging. Things surely won't get better if you too now take forever to reply.

 

I had a wishy-washy guy like this a while back. What I did with him was ask him out somewhere, and when he declined, I went silent. He waited a whole week to get back to me, and when he did he was so apologetic that he asked me out straight away. He ended up disappearing in the end (two more dates later), and that was it.

 

This is probably contrary to what everyone else has said (honestly, some of those posts are so long I haven't read all of them), but I'd say, if you're really interested in getting to know this guy, ask him out. But do it only once. See how he responds. If it's a yes, then go. If he declines or is wishy-washy or takes forever, then don't. You'll know soon enough, and the quicker you can get on with it with him, the quicker you're free to move on.

 

I don't think he's all that keen. Do you? Why wait four days to text you back?

[venusishername]

I decided to go ahead and reply at my leisure, after I was through with my other plans. I also saw that he had followed up a half hour after the first and asked if I wanted to get drinks. I thought it wouldn't make or break anything at this point if I DIDNT wait days to acknowledge him. I see the idea of mirroring, but deliberately doing it to me is playing games. I think it's ok to get to it whenever you're free. To me the concept of mirroring means one to one, don't contact someone if they don't contact you also, etc. Am I right?

Anyway,

I just replied (not three days later): I'm sorry but I can't tonight. Another time?

I mean, I am free now and I could go.

But I don't like that last minute stuff especially after he didn't respond the other day.

 

I DO want to get to know him of course but I don't want to just come when he feels like it. I've never once asked him out and he's kept at me for over a month now, pretty damn consistently since New Year's Day.

I figure by keeping a distance right now that I'm holding it at an arm's length for my own good.

You are right, losangelena, don't act casual if I don't want to be casual. But we are still getting to know. I guess I'm still feeling it out.

If he hadn't delayed the way he did, I prob would've seen him already this week.

 

I don't think it comes across as too 'keen' on my part either since I keep telling him no when he asks me out, now twice within this last week! I reply to him in a reasonable timeframe (hours) because duh, I do like him. I'm just holding back.

 

All I did was let him know I am interested but I wasn't free tonight. This has been my MO since the start with him. He persists and then eventually I have caved in on my own time, when I feel like it. He can take that information and if he'd like to see me, he will ask... Because that's what he's always done so far. So far it's always been: well when ARE you available, Venus?' We shall see.

Edited February 13, 2015 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

It was good that you said you weren't free. He didn't text you for days, so it would have looked desperate if you had instantly agreed to drinks.

 

Plus if should have offered to take you out for dinner if he was interested in more than just casual.....

 

After the first date, men who have been into me often text " can't wait to see ya". They say a few sweet things here and there that indicate their keen interest in wanting to see me again!

 

This guy seems very nonchalant... he enjoyed sex but he isn't upping the anti and offering to take you out for dinner.

 

He should be calling every so often in order to build a connection and also he should instigate dates once a week minimum. Let's see how this goes...

[LookAtThisPOst]

I had two long term failed relationships that I ended

 

Just curious, if you were so into getting married and whatever your concern was in the original post, then how come you didn't marry any of those 2 guys? Do you regret NOT marrying them?

 

I have always wondered about those who complained of their dating rut and have always wanted to get married, but never wound up marrying the men they HAD been in long term relationships with.

[venusishername]

It was good that you said you weren't free. He didn't text you for days, so it would have looked desperate if you had instantly agreed to drinks....

Right. Even though I was freed up later, I thought 'hey, I don't like the fact that he didn't reply to me for days.' Maybe he didn't see my message, I don't know. In any case, this was my opportunity to 'jump' and I didn't want to take it. It's tough because I sure do want to see him.

Plus if should have offered to take you out for dinner if he was interested in more than just casual........

He did the last time(s). We've had a couple of dinner dates. When he texted me last night it was dinnertime, so I mean I'm sure he would've suggested it we eat too. He did that once before also.

After the first date, men who have been into me often text " can't wait to see ya". They say a few sweet things here and there that indicate their keen interest in wanting to see me again!...

This happened with R after the first date. He was quick to contact me and let me know 'I had a great time with you, I'd like to see you again' or something along those lines. Then asked me out again very soon after.

He should be calling every so often in order to build a connection and also he should instigate dates once a week minimum. Let's see how this goes...

Well, Leigh, that's been the case all along. It's never been more than three days that pass. Last week was kind of a bust but he has tried to instigate dates twice now since we last saw each other last Monday. I turned down his invitations because I've been actually busy, and also because I'm trying to keep an arm's length. Phht, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be so bad for me to just ask him if he happens to have a long weekend... to put it out there that I do and maybe we can get together.

 

Just curious, if you were so into getting married and whatever your concern was in the original post, then how come you didn't marry any of those 2 guys? Do you regret NOT marrying them?

I have always wondered about those who complained of their dating rut and have always wanted to get married, but never wound up marrying the men they HAD been in long term relationships with.

Great question! Well.. I WASN'T into getting married when I was 19-25. My first boyfriend and I split up when I was 23. I was just too young. He did propose, actually! But it was not a healthy relationship and he had a major drinking problem. So yeah. I said no to his ring and I'm sure that was the second best decision I ever made (the first best was my second!)

My second relationship was from 23-27, and I loved him and wanted to marry him and have a family. He was lukewarm about it but gave me a ring to appease me (not a diamond, just a special ring). We were in love, but over time I learned that we were not fit for each other in life goals and I guess we just grew apart. He wasn't the kind of man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. When you're 23, you don't think about long term. Once I hit my late twenties, I started to. He turned out to be extremely emotionally abusive and controlling, so I dodged another bullet with him too.

Edited February 13, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

Long post ahead.

I feel a shift happened yesterday with R. In a good way. Now I feel much clearer than before. Which is exactly what needed to happen.

 

A hesitation of mine is that a couple of my friends met him on two occasions now and a few of them expressed that they weren't impressed. I mentioned this before. They thought he came across as cocky. One of my girlfriends said that I'm way too good for him and he's so not even my caliber. I know that I can't take my friends' opinions over my own feelings, but I admit I do listen to and value their ideas and opinions of course, while mine may be a bit clouded by the sex goggles I've got on. He does come across as confident and sure, maybe a little cocky. I happen to like that, so long as the guy isn't a jerk underneath the confidence. I wouldn't say he's arrogant, he's down to earth, but yes... certainly self-assured.

 

I've been thinking obviously about what it is that I want out of this. What he can offer. What I expect and won't settle for.

The conclusion that I've come over the weekend is that I'd like to continue getting to know each other and giving this a chance. Despite what my friends may think, although I must at least listen to them because they do want the best for me and they know me well and love me. I admit, it's in the back of my mind what they said. On the other hand, I'd never ever in a million years date 90% of the guys my friends date or even have married. Different tastes.... that's for sure!

 

After the other night (Thursday) that he asked if I'd like to get drinks... I said I'm sorry, another time. On Friday I asked what are your plans for the long weekend? First time I ever initiated with him.

On Valentine's Day morning, I slept in and saw a text he sent earlier in the morning. 'Happy Valentines Day, you sexy beautiful girl'. I learned later why he had delayed in his responses...

I had a mixed reaction of 'that was nice to wake up to!' and 'phfft.. how presumptuous that he didn't reply to me last night and here he is... sniffing around on V-day trying to flatter me'. I decided to be nice, be honest, and get rid of the cynicism. It's been weighing on me and it sucks carrying that burden. Not worth it.

 

I replied to him Happy V day to you. He asked what my plans were for the day. It was a beautiful day and I had plans with a friend in the early afternoon. He said he was doing xyz at the moment and let's talk later on. We happened to run into each other on the street a few hours later while I was with my friend and he was with his. We chatted there and he said I'll talk to you in awhile. Around dinner time he asked if I was free. I actually had obligated myself to a friends' house for dinner (the single crew!) and I said I'd be free after dinner and why don't we touch base after that. Since he didn't firm it up by 5:00 although been texting all day, I went ahead and made plans with my single friends! I told the friends I may have a date, but I'd like to have dinner with them either way! And I'm glad I did.

R had a buddy who wanted to go out for drinks and told me he'd get in touch soon once to let me know where he was posted up. It was getting a bit late, I half assumed the night with him wouldn't happen. And in fact, I was ok with that having fun with my single friends (male and females). But he got in touch like he said he would and asked would I like to join him, I said I am bringing some friends and will meet you at xyz.

 

My guy friend at dinner was open to hearing the backstory about R. I asked him for fun to read the messages we exchanged all day. He deciphered that this seemed to boil down to securing the opportunity to getting laid. He said 'Venus, if that's what you're ok with tonight, there's your cue. Your call!'

 

NOW. Writing it out like that rings very clear that sex is driving this train on both ends. Which is a normal human desire, and acceptable of course. However, I've had to think about whether I want to continue this or ride it out and get to know each other more, to see if I'd like it to be more than that with him. Not in general, the point is with him. Because we are at what some of you LS'ers love to label 'FWB' status meaning not exclusive... still just new... and figuring it out. You all know I want something substantial. I'm just now deciding if I want to pursue something substantial with him. Not the other way around.

We had a good time, he bought my group drinks and my friends kind of mingled around. R and I sat and talked, kind of in our own bubble most of the time.

 

What he told me and the exchange we had sitting there last night made me think twice and I had some more clarity.

I didn't even bring it up, but he apologized for not responding sooner to my texts over this past week. He's been working hours that are 15+ hours ahead of our time zone since last week (which he had mentioned in the past he'd be doing but I didn't mentally note the dates). He's in a graduate program also and had exams, etc.) He didn't want me to think that he had been ignoring me, or putting me off. When he's at work, he doesn't have access to his personal phone, and wasn't sure if I knew that. So when he's off, it's been at late odd hours this past week and he didn't want to disturb me or bother me late at night. He just wanted to make sure I was clear that he certainly wasn't ignoring or purposely delaying.

I tried to play it off like 'oh, it's alright, I understand. Not a big deal.'

Also, he just volunteered the information that he's not seeing anyone else, and didn't want me to think that was why he dropped off a little over the past week. He said it's been hard for him to date sometimes because a lot of women don't understand or want to deal with his career commitments and being a student too with weekends almost always spent studying and completing assignments. Yet he still has asked to see me at least twice a week since we met, and has been in contact every couple of days from the start.

 

Anyway, he said I've been so reserved towards him, I'm hard to read... he just isn't sure what it is I'm interested in, and came right out and asked me! In the past (like with A the fireman) I have been the one asking those questions, or volunteering that information. He did it this time. He knew from date number 2 that I wanted something substantial, but I think he needed to hear how I felt about him.

I was honest. I told him, it's true that I have been reserved. I am just beginning to get to know you. I like you, and I enjoy your company. I'd like to spend time getting to know you.

He agreed with me. Said let's make a plan for dinner over the next couple days. A proper date again, since this V-day group setting was just not ideal. He said he didn't want to overwhelm me and put a lot of pressure on V day because it's still new and well, I could tell that he wasn't sure how I felt about the whole relationship. I feel that's completely acceptable. It wasn't a candlelit dinner with flowers and chocolate and violins with a boyfriend. It was beer in a bar with a bunch of singles (which was fun anyway!)

I was honest in response: I said I'm a very romantic person and I'm a sucker for the corny Valentines' Day stuff. It's a good possibility he just might make that up to me on our next date this week.

 

My friends suggested/warned that I shouldn't go home with him because that would be the 'test' to see if that's all he wanted out of this. (My friends are very protective of me, gotta love them.. even though I'm a big girl). I just followed my 'heart' and 'hormones'... and went back to his place where multiple rounds of that incredible sex followed. We had the music, the whole ambiance. It was great, again, as expected. Per usual, he was extremely affectionate with me, in public and in private. It's very very nice to be with someone who is a match in terms of sex/drive. What a difference from A the fireman!!!! Super important, although certainly not everything... a damn good foundation to build on. A very important ingredient called HEAT/PASSION! Yes!

 

I thought it was also sweet that he brought up something I mentioned I was baking a few weeks ago...when can he try my cake I bake from scratch? How about just a cupcake, if not a whole cake? When can he come to see my place? He would just LOVE to hear my musical talents he just learned about last night. When can he hear? I know, pretty words. I just thought that was sweet. In other words, he could've said 'how long is it gonna take for you to let me in just a little bit?'!

 

Here's the thing. I know at this point, it's very obvious that sex is a pretty powerful driving force behind this train... which contributes to my reservations as well.

Next time, or for some time, I think would be wise to take it off the table and focus on getting to know. Many of you have said this in this thread before; I heard you. We jumped the gun with early sex. Now we want to continue getting to know.

 

 

I don't want or need to ask him where is this going.. demand to know if he's seeing anyone else... what his intentions are... because what do you know, that's becoming apparent naturally as time goes by. I won't know that information nor will I be able to make an informed decision as to whether I want to continue dating him until I get to know him more and spend time!!

I can't make assumptions and close off, or cut him loose because my friends don't think he's all that and a bag of chips. That also doesn't mean I'm going to be needy and clingy and chase. I don't feel so much of that crippling insecurity with him. Or just anymore in general. I'm getting there...

 

I recently used to think I just knew what "it" was 'supposed to look like'. All I could compare it to was my last relationship, or another guy I dated briefly in the past. But I realized I just can't continue comparing. I need to let that go.. my 'standard' I had for the way my ex pursued and won me over. How that all began. My same opinionated and colorful gf reminded me: 'don't hang on to that standard, because your ex was crazy.'

 

The whole point for me and getting into a new real relationship is that it's imperative for me to be open to someone new, in the event that I meet the right person... I have to above all be at least receptive to it! Balanced with my standards for how I want and expect to be treated, of course. What I personally feel comfortable with.. not what it 'should be', or what others might want or say I 'should' want.

I trust that I know and will know best what it is I want and with whom.

 

On a side note, if it's just about sex, I really don't think he would've stuck around for over a month and kept persisting over and over and holding contact, not letting it drop, telling me what he did last night. Even spending V day together. A man looking for casual only and no strings attached would avoid even mentioning V day to a woman.. at least that's what I would do. I'd avoid it like the plague!

If he was doing everything he could to keep it casual and no strings attached, he'd fall off the map for two weeks in Maverick fashion, purposely distance and disappear for stretches of time, make thin weak excuses, not follow through on his word, be clear from day one that he's not looking for anything serious, be hands-off as possible in terms of affection.... not consistent and not persistent...at least that's my take on it. I think I've learned these things along the years!!

I'd like to see what happens from here. I mean, my time sure is precious. However, it's time to be receptive as well.

Edited February 16, 2015 by venusishername

[lil_missy]

im still getting a super casual vibe from R....

 

his still making plans with you at the last min, you never know if its gonna happen until it happens. that is not someone trying to date you and place you as a priority

 

Even your guy friend told you this is about getting laid? and somehow you were super OK even delighted about this?

 

So when R asked you what you wanted, did you tell him again that you were looking for a serious relationship? because it sounds like to me you just said you want to spend time with him, you know that is super non-committal right? which gives him the OK to keep things casual. Also the reason he asked you again what you want is because he definitely wants to confirm he is on the same page as you as he doesnt want to hurt you. he may not be a terrible guy but you need to honest with him about what you want, otherwise you may hurt yourself.

 

and after you told him how u felt about him, did he reciprocate with how he felt about you?

 

i think him suggesting dinner this week is an awesome thing, and if he follows through that would be great. at least there is something there. and the fact that he asked about ur other interests like baking and musical talents is also a great sign.

 

so i can see what you mean by a good shift. but still i feel there are lots of doubts in the other points i mentioned above.

[BluEyeL]

^^^ What she said.

 

It could TURN into something serious down the line, but for now it reads as casual.

[losangelena]

I'd put $100 that your friends are right.

 

I had a FWB last summer, and he did all of those things you say a guy who'd never be FWB would do, with the exception of being affectionate in public. Everything else, he did. I even went out of state for three weeks, and he kept in pretty consistent contact while I was gone. He persisted over about three months, because he kept getting sex!

 

I kept waiting for the big "BUT" in this post. Venus, it honestly sound like you know the score, but you're trying to convince yourself and us otherwise. Mmm, the lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[idoltree]

Venus, I'm happy that you're happy. But please recognize that your post is all over the place. You've gotten your dose of male interest, some sex, and clues that he may want a relationship with you, and that is your preferred brand of emotional crack cocaine.

 

You are still allowing yourself to be buffeted about by external factors, and what the guy du jour thinks, which is something that you were to be working on about yourself. You were to develop a sense of self, focusing on what you want, that would not dissolve in the face of external factors. You're not there yet. You've been far too worried about what R is thinking to remember to prioritize yourself.

 

Some constructive criticism:

 

A hesitation of mine is that a couple of my friends met him on two occasions now and a few of them expressed that they weren't impressed. I mentioned this before. They thought he came across as cocky. One of my girlfriends said that I'm way too good for him and he's so not even my caliber. I know that I can't take my friends' opinions over my own feelings, but I admit I do listen to and value their ideas and opinions of course, while mine may be a bit clouded by the sex goggles I've got on. He does come across as confident and sure, maybe a little cocky. I happen to like that, so long as the guy isn't a jerk underneath the confidence. I wouldn't say he's arrogant, he's down to earth, but yes... certainly self-assured.

Venus, do you understand the concept of someone being on their best behavior when meeting new people? People want to show their best selves. We all do it. So if your friends find him to be arrogant, then the reality is probably worse than what they observed, not better, since R would be putting on the best version of himself when meeting new people. Did your friends give you details about why they thought that? If not, ask for them.

 

Would any of your friends try to sabotage your potential for relationships? Some women can be catty, and they will work to keep their single friend single because it benefits their lifestyle to have a single friend available when they want her. Unless you have (a) friend(s) like that, you should put more emphasis onto your friends' impressions of R.

 

Is it that R comes off as overly rational and logical and they are reading that as arrogance?

 

Why, if he has this soft side of respect and vulnerability and that is the real him, would he come off as cocky and arrogant to other people? Why would he need that? The only thing I can come up with is someone unaware of how they are perceived socially, like in the case of Asperger's or social anxiety, or something like that. Otherwise, one of those versions of him isn't real and lasting.

 

You have to put in some thought about what could be going on, and you have to do it without drawing conclusions just because they're the ones you hope for. Your friends' opinion is a red flag. You mention it but don't linger on it, and instead of analyzing the **** out of what R is thinking, focus on analyzing the **** out of the red flag and what could be going on.

 

You seem really invested in this idea that you can get a cocky arrogant guy with a soft side, and that if you see evidence of the soft side then you know "the real him." And it's a side that only you see and it makes you feel closer to him. Do you realize that this is something natural for an arrogant guy to do to get access to sex? He knows a girl would eat that stuff up "Girlfriends, yeah, he comes off like a jerk, but he's sooooo sweet to me! He obviously really likes me because he treats me so differently than everyone else!" This is manipulation via a false self, it cannot last, and it will end with the honeymoon period. Soon you would be dealing with the actual real him, and that same cockiness and arrogance "with a soft side" that drew you in will turn into plain cockiness and arrogance.

 

You have a troubled past history with men not recognizing your boundaries. Men who are cocky and arrogant are prone to not recognizing boundaries, because they don't feel they should apply to them. R has been observed to be cocky and arrogant by people that you trust. Are alarm bells not ringing, or are you too into the "soft side" that you see and the sex to notice that history may be repeating and that cockiness and arrogance are factors that you should distance from and not run toward?

 

Think about it. Really think about it. Because I think you've always been attracted to cocky and arrogant guys, and you fail to see that the qualities that you are attracted to may be the problem, and that you can make yourself attracted to other qualities, like generosity and respect, if you wanted to do that. Did we not figure out that the attraction to ego and arrogance and feeling protected were about some father issues you haven't yet resolved and could be impacting your choice of men?

 

Despite what my friends may think, although I must at least listen to them because they do want the best for me and they know me well and love me. I admit, it's in the back of my mind what they said. On the other hand, I'd never ever in a million years date 90% of the guys my friends date or even have married. Different tastes.... that's for sure!

Think about that one again. Your friends, who are not single, are attracted to men with different qualities than the ones that you, who does not want to be single anymore but can't find suitable guys, are attracted to. Hmmm, it's almost as if we could figure something out from that...

 

Additionally, you are still SO not clear on what you want. We get your friend telling you it's about sex, and you're okay with that. You discuss FWB and you're okay with that. But then you're also excitedly giving all these clues that he wants something more with you, and you are really invested in those clues that R wants a relationship with you and that you are winning him over to prove something to yourself and to us.

 

What is it that you want? All of these things cannot co-exist, and acting like you are okay with any of them is not being honest with yourself and not being honest with us.

Here's one that's honest

: "I really want a committed relationship with

R

. It could go that way, but I feel disappointed when I get feedback from my friends that it's just about sex, and when I think it may only turn into

FWB

. I want a relationship and anything less will be disappointing

so

I will not settle for less than what I want. I will give it time to develop, but if I get more evidence that it will not turn into what I want, I will leave."

 

Here's one that is not honest

: "I really want a committed relationship with

R

. It could go that way, but I'

m

okay with it just being about sex, because I'

m

so

sex positive and I like sex. And I'd be okay to know I was used for sex, or that he loses interest in me after having sex. And I'd be okay if it were

FWB

. And just look at all these clues that he really wants a committed relationship with me. Let me linger on them and savor them because I can almost taste getting what I want and proving myself worthy. But, guys, look, I'

m

not focusing on what the guy wants anymore."

Guess which one you're presenting here and to yourself? The second one. And the second one is a cognitive cluster**** of epic proportions.

 

I've been thinking obviously about what it is that I want out of this. What he can offer. What I expect and won't settle for. The conclusion that I've come over the weekend is that I'd like to continue getting to know each other and giving this a chance.

If you want this to turn into a committed relationship with R, then own that and stop backsliding into acting like anything else would be okay.

 

You say that he's known since the second date that you're looking for something substantial. Are you sure? Did you say that? Or is it just because you turned down the date at his place and therefore you're leaving it up to him to make that interpretation because your female brain would understand the underlying implications? Because this is where wires get crossed; you assume that he knows what you want, but he may not unless you have been clear with him.

 

If the topic comes up again with R, don't try to be Cool Girl who isn't sure; be you. You know what you want. You want a serious relationship with long term potential. It's whether R is right for you that you're still assessing and you can tell him that. That is why you're open to continuing to date him, and if he is implying that you should only date one another by telling you that he's not seeing anyone else, then you're okay with that step.

 

After all, if this guy is right for you, he's not going to be in a relationship with Cool Girl, he's going to be in one with you.

 

The first step toward a strong unwavering sense of self not prone to being crushed by external factors is being honest with yourself and others about what you want.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Long post ahead.

I feel a shift happened yesterday with R. In a good way. Now I feel much clearer than before.

 

Boy, I'm glad you're clearer, because I'm definitely not. Your friends don't like him, you're assuming he knows what you want, and he didn't feel like hanging out with you on Valentine's Day because ~*~pressure~*~? How is this a good sign?

 

NOW. Writing it out like that rings very clear that sex is driving this train on both ends. Which is a normal human desire, and acceptable of course.

 

But it's not acceptable to you and you know that. You don't want this to be all about sex. Why are you pretending that you can just "ride this out" and not get too attached (even though you admit you already have) until he gets bored? Why are you willing to settle for so much less than what you want?

 

He said it's been hard for him to date sometimes because a lot of women don't understand or want to deal with his career commitments and being a student too with weekends almost always spent studying and completing assignments.

 

This seems like a giant red flag to me. He is repeatedly unable to provide the time and attention that women want from a committed relationship. He's not going to change. Are you okay with that, too?

 

Yet he still has asked to see me at least twice a week since we met, and has been in contact every couple of days from the start.

 

If you were satisfied with R's texting and calling habits, this page would have been significantly shorter. I'm sorry but the "I don't have my phone" excuse is BS. I don't have access to my mobile at work and neither does my boyfriend. When something comes up we call---you know, the whole voice thing that you explicitly said you prefer.

 

The next couple of paragraphs are an avalanche of words with surprisingly little substance. Is this an exclusive, committed, boyfriend/girlfriend relationship or not? Does he even have time for a girlfriend?

 

I like that he asked you out to dinner; that's great. I don't like that all of your friends seem to dislike him and think that he's only in it for sex. I especially don't like that you say this:

 

I don't want or need to ask him where is this going.. demand to know if he's seeing anyone else... what his intentions are...

 

Yes you do! For Christ's sake, that's exactly what you need to know! "Hey, what are you looking for" is a completely reasonable question to ask after a month or so of occasional sex and hanging out! Oh, Venus. I swear I'm going to put a dent in this desk after pounding my head so hard.

 

The final paragraphs (essays?) are your attempts to persuade yourself that this is serious, not because he told you so but because that's how you want to interpret the evidence. I just don't understand why you're so afraid to admit what you want and be direct with him. I just don't get it, at all.

[trolloperative]

If the topic comes up again with R, don't try to be Cool Girl who isn't sure; be you. You know what you want. You want a serious relationship with long term potential. It's whether R is right for you that you're still assessing and you can tell him that. That is why you're open to continuing to date him, and if he is implying that you should only date one another by telling you that he's not seeing anyone else, then you're okay with that step.

 

After all, if this guy is right for you, he's not going to be in a relationship with Cool Girl, he's going to be in one with you.

 

The first step toward a strong unwavering sense of self not prone to being crushed by external factors is being honest with yourself and others about what you want.

Not negating the rest of the quote but just want to add to the bolded..

 

He actually did tell her other women "don't understand his schedule." Which I read as: they have standards/boundaries that require him to not ignore their contacts and spend a respectable amount of time with them outside of bed.

 

V, don't let this guy talk you out of dating other people. Maybe there's a chance it will turn into more but for the time being it may be a good idea to just use him as your FWB while you get to know guys with real potential.

[idoltree]

Not negating the rest of the quote but just want to add to the bolded..

 

He actually did tell her other women "don't understand his schedule." Which I read as: they have standards/boundaries that require him to not ignore their contacts and spend a respectable amount of time with them outside of bed.

 

V, don't let this guy talk you out of dating other people. Maybe there's a chance it will turn into more but for the time being it may be a good idea to just use him as your FWB while you get to know guys with real potential.

 

Nychag, I gave her that advice because exclusivity leading to a relationship is what she wants with R, even if she won't admit it. She's not thinking about other guys and she's not trying to meet other guys. She wants it to work out with R. I don't necessarily endorse that, but I will try to help her along with what she wants.

 

Believe me, we've been through the suggestion for Venus to hold off on sleeping with guys and date a few at a time to keep herself in check, but she has shot that down multiple times.

 

The timing typically doesn't work to date multiple guys: once she's sleeping with one she doesn't feel comfortable dating others. Since she believes in sleeping with men early on, the timing doesn't always allow for her to see multiple men. And she doesn't want to change this approach because she wants to keep doing what her instincts tell her to do, and justifies it by saying that it won't matter once the right guy comes along.

 

In general, she'll make small changes but isn't interested in radical changes that mean she has to leave her dating comfort zone behind.

 

Also, I don't know how she's going to revert to FWB with R if she already has feelings for this guy. It's not really FWB if you have romantic feelings, and she does... in spite of going into this swearing R was just going to be a distraction and a bit of fun.

 

You will come to find that Venus says one thing, does another, and manages to confuse all of us and herself in the process.

 

We do love her, though.

[venusishername]

Thank you everyone. I was 'high' when I wrote that last long post.

I'm with losangelena 100%.

I'll get into it a little more Later.

But I think I may have not been clear enough with him. I DID tell him I was looking or something serious. However maybe my actions have spoken otherwise. In any case, the next time we talk/see each other- perhaps at that dinner date he suggested this week:

I am looking for something long term. I also am not comfortable rushing into that either and would like to spend time to see if it's a good fit, and if we are on the same page. I do enjoy your sex and company, but I don't want to waste my time or your's if our end goal out of this is not the same

I think at this point I have no other choice but to say that.

Because it's the truth.

I figured I'd give it time to get to know before I assumed anything. Despite what you say: I am NOT sure if I want something more with him.

I guess it would follow then that I should GET sure. Like I said, my friends' opinions threw me off. The sex threw me off.

Again- I'd like to give it just a little more time. I want to give a chance- but that conversation needs to happen. He brought it up. But maybe I wasn't clear- lil mists had a great point about my response coming across as non-committal. Which it was.

I'm not upset, I'm not feeling anxious- I just think it's a matter now of me (like you have suggested) just getting real with myself and making that clear as day to him. Period.

[venusishername]

I didn't have much time when I posted that last one.

Anyway.. to elaborate a little more.

 

Idoltree asks me what it is I want. I guess I have been at conflict with that for a couple years now that I've been single. Which is why I tend to be all over the place and inconsistent.

In the end, yes, I want a relationship, a husband and a family. I'd like to have that in the next year or two. As soon as I'm ready. I'm getting closer. It's certainly not instantaneous.

However, as I've mentioned, I have some trauma I've had to deal with and heal from with my ex and that has definitely prevented me from pursuing something substantial. I am getting very close to it now, I used to be repulsed by the thought of a new relationship. I have a lot of hesitation, although I do know what I want. I think that is where the defense mechanisms flare up... like playing the 'cool girl'. Why? So I don't get hurt of course. It's hard to hand over your emotions and open your heart. Even though I want to... it sure is easier said than done and takes time to be ready.

 

I'm too lazy to multiquote tonight. But wanted to comment on idoltree's post:

"Here's one that's honest: "I really want a committed relationship with R. It could go that way, but I feel disappointed when I get feedback from my friends that it's just about sex, and when I think it may only turn into FWB. I want a relationship and anything less will be disappointing so I will not settle for less than what I want. I will give it time to develop, but if I get more evidence that it will not turn into what I want, I will leave."

 

Yes, all this is true... especially the last sentence bolded, but except for the first sentence. That I am not yet sure of. I DO want a committed relationship. I just don't know if I want it with him. I would venture a guess that R and I are in the exact same boat with that one. That's why we want to let it develop and see if it's a good fit!

 

I don't want to get caught in a cycle of FWB, although I see how emotionally unavailable people tend to be drawn to these types of situations! You get the best of both worlds!

(I'm not saying this is what I am pursuing now and what I want). It used to be though!

I also don't think it makes any sense that I would 'revert' back to a FWB with him either.. now that I have 'romantic feelings'. Being with him does evoke my romantic feelings.. but I am feeling a lot of skepticism and hesitation at the same time....based on my friends' opinions, the fact that this is soaked in sex as a pretty powerful force...the 'evidence' that this reads as just casual. Ok. It is casual now. That's how all relationships begin though, correct??

The way we ended that conversation on V-day was more or less 'let's see how this develops'. Starting with planning for a dinner date this week. Telling me he'd like to get to know me more, and I said the same. Let's spend time. I think that's good.

 

Chimp's comment about the lack of phone access being BS... I truly don't think his comment was BS by any means. I also don't expect someone to 'get in touch to let me know what's going on' at this point, or whatever it was you said you and your bf do. What is so urgent to get in touch to let each other know what's going on? For me and R, nothing is that urgent. It can wait until there is phone access.

 

He mentioned this (on his own initiative) to remind me that he had a change in schedule for this week or weeks, overnight hours, he doesn't have access to it while at work. When he's been home during daylight hours, he's sleeping, which is when I'm at work. When he gets off, it's so late he didn't want to text me in the middle of the night, so he waited until the next day. I feel this is completely reasonable. And this is only a short temporary assignment anyway. I just took it at face value, that he was trying to explain and apologized. He even said, 'I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring you or putting you off, or trying to fade out on you.' Then he went on to volunteer: 'I'm also not seeing anyone else, and want to be sure you knew that, and that wasn't the reason why that happened this last week.'

Meanwhile I was sitting there just listening. My response to that was I understand, I respect your work commitments, and I appreciate you letting me know these things. (I didn't want to appear in the slightest that I was the least bit affected by his delayed responses). I'm sure I mentioned that yes, I wondered why I hadn't heard back in a normal and reasonable amount of time. But that it was alright, I understand now. Now that I heard him out, obviously I see that I overreacted by getting so anxious about it. I made assumptions which were incorrect. I see that is something I need to work on.

 

Going forward into this week: I'm going to "give it time to develop, but if I get more evidence that it will not turn into what I want, I will leave." (thanks, Idoltree).

I also think when we do see each other this week...that I must re-visit that conversation from the other night and clear up any unanswered questions. I feel like he was asking all the questions and I didn't ask any. I just assumed he was on the same page because he didn't say otherwise, and has continued to pursue this.

Edited February 17, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

I read lots of excuses in your post. Also, you're considering lowering your standards of what you want (a relationship) to maybe do FWB with him. Not good and that will hurt you in the long run.

Yes, everything is somewhat casual in the beginning, but should be potentially heading somewhere. I don't think that's what this is.

[BluEyeL]

Generally, in my experience, talking too much about the relationship and what you want is not good. Words are completely unnecessary at this point and they mean absolutely nothing, nada!!! It doesn't matter what you say and what he says unless is transfers into reality. Instead, actions tell us ALL we need to know.

 

A man should take you out on dates, planned ahead at least 24 h (better more) at least once a week, and weekend nights are a must. Should contatct you at least 1-2 x between dates. Some of these dates should NOT include sex and should have as a goal "getting to know you" as a person. After a while, the man asks you for exclusivity (you can ask too, after a bond has been established and consistent dating happened) and you become his girlfriend. The relationship now is a relationship.

 

If a man is inconsistent, he is doing so on purpose. He is trying to not create expectations of consistency. he is trying to have you on the line for sex when is suitable for him.

 

This man is trying to do just that. He doesn't have serious intentions with you. If he changes his mind, he'll start taking you on dates that he prioritizes over "hanging out" with his friends or anything else. He will make time. He will not come "maybe after i do x and y and z" and he will not keep you by the phone. This guy is throwing you crumbs and you're eating them up.

 

Talk is cheap and useless. Your posts are too long and tell nothing new.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I apologize for my choice of words. When I said his line about working too much to call you was BS, I didn't mean he was lying, just that it's not an excuse to not contact someone. It doesn't have to be an emergency. He could have said "hey Venus, it looks like I'm going to be super busy this weekend. How about we do dinner Monday?"

 

You are right, nothing about your relationship has been urgent. It hasn't even been a priority. You have been occasional fun and no-strings-attached entertainment for each other and he basically told you that he wasn't willing to put you ahead of his studies/career. Your relationship is as developed as it is ever going to be: he is not going to give you anything more than he's given already. That doesn't seem like what you want.

[venusishername]

I read lots of excuses in your post. Also, you're considering lowering your standards of what you want (a relationship) to maybe do FWB with him. Not good and that will hurt you in the long run.

Where did I say this? I believe it was someone else who suggested that I keep him as a "FWB". What I AM considering doing is giving it a chance to see if it may develop (not many more chances, just a few). If I continue getting evidence of it not being what I want, then I'm out.

 

A man should take you out on dates, planned ahead at least 24 h (better more) at least once a week, and weekend nights are a must. Should contatct you at least 1-2 x between dates. Some of these dates should NOT include sex and should have as a goal "getting to know you" as a person. After a while, the man asks you for exclusivity (you can ask too, after a bond has been established and consistent dating happened) and you become his girlfriend. The relationship now is a relationship.

I see this is overly generalized, but I agree with you in general terms.

I mean, if I'm honest about it, these things HAVE been happening (the beginning stuff you mention). We've seen each other at least once a week since the start; he contacts every couple days, initiates 90% of the time, does plan ahead, etc.

If a man is inconsistent, he is doing so on purpose. He is trying to not create expectations of consistency. he is trying to have you on the line for sex when is suitable for him.

 

This man is trying to do just that. He doesn't have serious intentions with you. If he changes his mind, he'll start taking you on dates that he prioritizes over "hanging out" with his friends or anything else. He will make time. He will not come "maybe after i do x and y and z" and he will not keep you by the phone. This guy is throwing you crumbs and you're eating them up.

 

 

I feel like I'm the one who's always says after xyz, I have plans with friends, etc. Not him! In any case, I still see where you are coming from.

 

 

Look everyone, I guess I'm trying to convince myself that it's not or it could be more than just "FWB" (I despise that term btw and don't want to use it anymore!!)

I feel that in the upcoming days and week or two that I'd like to sit down and have that conversation with him. I mean, I don't have to. It would just be nice to get it out in the open. I have no problem cutting this loose. But I feel it would be best to talk about it first and be very clear with each other; at least then I will KNOW if I'm making the right decision. I would hate to sabotage something that could have potential with time. I have a tendency to do that, and don't want to act too hastily and impatiently, that's all.

Edited February 17, 2015 by venusishername

[Timshel]

I have read your thread and I see you. The people offering advice are caring for you. They have, from what I read, spent time to be of assistance.

You are not listening because you are not ready. There will be a time that you will ask with an open mind and heart but it is not now.

Have fun and be safe in all ways. There is no reason to give a blow by blow account of your affairs if you do not want to hear a response of concern.

 

I know that you as much as any person on LS have reasons to voice what you feel. And I know that what I say is of no significance to you.

 

You are where you are and there is no shame in that, no judgment. I would suggest that you embrace where you are now, rather than question every move or attitude you have.

Only be careful with your health and safety.

[Brooke02]

Where did I say this? I believe it was someone else who suggested that I keep him as a "FWB". What I AM considering doing is giving it a chance to see if it may develop (not many more chances, just a few). If I continue getting evidence of it not being what I want, then I'm out.

 

 

I see this is overly generalized, but I agree with you in general terms.

I mean, if I'm honest about it, these things HAVE been happening (the beginning stuff you mention). We e've seen each other at least once a week since the start; he contacts every couple days, initiates 90% of the time, does plan ahead, etc.

 

 

 

I feel like I'm the one who's always says after xyz, I have plans with friends, etc. Not him! In any case, I still see where you are coming from.

 

 

Look everyone, I guess I'm trying to convince myself that it's not or it could be more than just "FWB" (I despise that term btw and don't want to use it anymore!!)

I feel that in the upcoming days and week or two that I'd like to sit down and have that conversation with him. I mean, I don't have to. It would just be nice to get it out in the open. I have no problem cutting this loose. But I feel it would be best to talk about it first and be very clear with each other; at least then I will KNOW if I'm making the right decision. I would hate to sabotage something that could have potential with time. I have a tendency to do that, and don't want to act too hastily and impatiently, that's all.

 

 

Venus, you say you've seen him at least once a week, have you gone out on real dates that doesnt include sex?

 

I know you've explained how you don't think it will change anything if you have sex or if you dont, why cant you go a while without sleeping with these guys. Get a vibrator, stock up on batteries... I guarantee you wouldnt even be talking about R if sex wasnt involved because he'd be long gone. He's doing just enough and telling you what you wanna hear to keep you on the line because he knows he'll get some,

 

Also, if you "dont know if you want a relationship with R" then why are you waiting around to see what happens? Maybe youll change your mind? You should know already.

 

No disrespect but this thread is SSDD everytime I read it.

You deserve better than this Venus your a great women, and Blueye, Idle, Chimp (sorry if I forgot someone) have given you such great advice but it seems to just go in one ear and out the other. You say "I know I should do this, that etc. but you dont apply it.

[trolloperative]

Apparently her friends IRL are also giving her similar advice. She is in her 30's but still treating relationships like she did 10 years ago when she started her last LTR. Life doesn't work that way. She's getting older (wants the family, kids, etc.) and the pool of available men will get slimmer with time. Stop wasting it.

[venusishername]

Apparently her friends IRL are also giving her similar advice. She is in her 30's but still treating relationships like she did 10 years ago when she started her last LTR. Life doesn't work that way. She's getting older (wants the family, kids, etc.) and the pool of available men will get slimmer with time. Stop wasting it.

 

 

I think this is a valid observance for sure. I haven't been ready for a relationship since almost 10 years ago now, when I met my last boyfriend.

I don't know exactly what shift to make (although I have some ideas, of course)... but I think what you said is very true about my mindset.

 

Also, if you "dont know if you want a relationship with R" then why are you waiting around to see what happens? Maybe youll change your mind? You should know already.

 

 

Brooke, about the sex part: Yes, in the past two or three 'relationships' I have shared here on LS... I did not wait long for sex. I don't think waiting is the problem. But YES. The next time, I would like to delay it for as long as possible.

And- as far as why I'm waiting? To ask him what he's looking for, to give it a fair chance to get to know each other better before I write it off. I don't know already. I am definitely hesitant and unsure. I'm not convinced. I'm sure I'll know soon.

 

 

No disrespect but this thread is SSDD everytime I read it.

 

You are not listening because you are not ready. There will be a time that you will ask with an open mind and heart but it is not now.

You are where you are and there is no shame in that, no judgment. I would suggest that you embrace where you are now, rather than question every move or attitude you have.

Only be careful with your health and safety.

Well thank you very much! As much as I want to be, I really don't think I am completely "ready" for something real with someone yet. That's probably why I'm all over the place emotionally. I do want a relationship, but at the same time I might not be completely ready, although I am getting closer to it.