When it rains it pours

[lil_missy]

So did he organise dinner yet? Anymore contact since vday?

[venusishername]

Oops, I hit submit before I could finish editing...

 

 

Today I've been thrown off and feeling really down and discouraged about everything. I happened to run into BOTH the guy that I was seeing briefly over the summer (from my last thread) and A the fireman within the last 4 hours tonight.

B spotted me on the street and said hello, I saw A in a store and we caught eyes and I said hi and we acknowledged each other. Neither of those situations would've allowed an actual conversation to take place, just because of the setting and circumstances.

Reminder that A dropped off the face of the planet after Xmas Eve...and all that leading up to it vanished into thin air as though it meant nothing. That still hurts, even though it was a mutual thing.

 

 

Seeing them both in passing made me think how I really did like those guys, and I did try...but they just weren't that into it in the end, lost interest, not ready, whatever... I lost interest in A too.

But it just made me feel really ****ty because I would've liked both of those situations to have 'clicked' because really I did like both of them. I know it's for the best that I moved on, but it just made me feel sad.

 

 

Especially since I threw myself into meeting someone new, talking online with Maverick and that one date we had...then R kept persisting. I was lonely and I admit I have enjoyed R's attention and affection.

 

Missy, you asked about the date he talked about the other day. No, nothing yet. I'm pretty sure I'll be hearing any day now. But I'm not anxious or feeling insecure about it either.

 

 

At the moment, I'm feeling only half-interested in that date actually happening. Sure, it would be nice..... we could get to know each other and spend time like we had talked about on V day. But I'm not counting on it.

I mean, in my recent experiences, men who seemed into me dropped off the face of the earth. So I guess I'm feeling even more cynical about R now that I saw both B and A tonight.

 

 

Also, with R.. I've felt iffy since day one about him. I know that's partly because of the fact that I was hurt and disappointed by people immediately preceding and surrounding his entrance.

I'll let you guys know if that date actually happens. After Vday, I felt it was good that we talked, but I still feel hesitant.

Edited February 18, 2015 by venusishername

[BluEyeL]

I'm sorry you are feeling down. Dating is hard. If we don't take steps to protect ourselves, we are bound to suffer a lot. Please try to keep yourself more away from hurt. Listen to what people are telling you and really take their advice. It's easier to see the truth from afar and we are all experienced daters.

 

Please try other dating sites, instead of tinder. Try match.com.

Meet men for first dates, a wide variety of men, not the same type and observe if they take you out consistently and without sex. Observe their character and personality. No hang outs, no last minute things. Don't let them be casual. Don't offer sex because you're afraid they'll leave otherwise. As you can see, those who would leave will leave anyway and will leave behind more hurt. It's good if they leave, they don't waste weeks and months of your time and don't hurt you as much.

 

Do all these and I guarantee that within a year, if you are disciplined, you're bound to find a good man.

[idoltree]

Venus, every time a guy viewed me seriously and wanted a relationship with me, I didn't wonder about anything. He would call consistently, so that we could talk and get to know one another. Texting wasn't the main form of communication, because he didn't want things to be that disconnected. We'd make plans for the next date at the end of the last. He'd ask me out for prime date nights, knowing that if he didn't I might go out with another guy. There was nothing to analyze because there were no inconsistencies. It was intentional, because he didn't want me to doubt him. Every single meaningful relationship I've had has started this way. Therefore I might presume that if I don't see this same pattern, it's not going to turn into a meaningful relationship.

 

R texts inconsistently. R doesn't plan dates in advance (you sometimes get vague invitations but then it sits until he decides to call and let you know). He asks you out at the last minute all of the time. Even if he's busy, there is absolutely nothing preventing him from making plans with you far in advance. "Hey, let's meet up next Saturday night and catch a movie." It's really not that hard to do that, but he chooses not to. This is not good, especially when you've already slept with the man.

 

You could, if you wanted, make a decision about him right now. Instead, you'll hand him the reigns and wait to see what he does, overanalyzing every detail and using it as evidence that he wants more. You'll want to give him a shot, because truly being alone with no prospects scares you. So you'll hand over your personal power and let him determine what this turns into and how long it takes.

 

I am not telling you to do anything. I just want to point out that you - right now - have the ability to determine your own future and make decisions about men when they aren't meeting your needs or acting in ways that make you feel secure. You don't need to let it play out. Do not disassociate from that reality and act like you're powerless. You can choose to let it play out, but know that is your choice, and know exactly what you'd need to see and hear in order to keep spending time on R. If you don't get those things, end it.

 

However, as I've mentioned, I have some trauma I've had to deal with and heal from with my ex and that has definitely prevented me from pursuing something substantial. I am getting very close to it now, I used to be repulsed by the thought of a new relationship. I have a lot of hesitation, although I do know what I want.

Well thank you very much! As much as I want to be, I really don't think I am completely "ready" for something real with someone yet. That's probably why I'm all over the place emotionally. I do want a relationship, but at the same time I might not be completely ready, although I am getting closer to it.

Then why are you dating and looking for a relationship if you know you're still not ready? I wish you'd detox from men until you were in a healthier mindset, because all of the drama involved with these guys keeps you from having to face yourself and what holds you back. You are, in effect, delaying being ready.

 

If you want a husband and family and you are in your 30s, you need to rethink what you are doing because more time goes by, your heart gets broken more and more, and you rack up more notches on your bedpost. And all the while you don't have to face those lonely and frightened parts of yourself because you're so busy with overanalyzing or fantasizing about the guy du jour and how he might offer a shortcut and save you from the things about yourself that you'd rather not deal with.

 

So, I ask again, if you're not ready, why are your actions that of someone who is? Why are you so reluctant to take time off from dating and re-enter the market when you are ready?

 

Also, with R.. I've felt iffy since day one about him. I know that's partly because of the fact that I was hurt and disappointed by people immediately preceding and surrounding his entrance

These are nice words, but they're not reality. You're disconnected from how you really feel. If this were true, you wouldn't have posts on here making excuses for him, wondering what he's thinking about you... You've certainly done better with R than you have with previous guys, but the pattern is still there.

 

I think this is a valid observance for sure. I haven't been ready for a relationship since almost 10 years ago now, when I met my last boyfriend.

I don't know exactly what shift to make (although I have some ideas, of course)... but I think what you said is very true about my mindset.

It pains me to read that you still don't know what to change. It's like talking to a brick wall.

 

You have alternate approaches and suggestions throughout this thread from numerous posters, it's just that you don't want to listen to any of them. Because they don't "feel right". Because they go against your instincts. And you still refuse to acknowledge that your instincts are the problem.

 

You don't make changes because you don't want to. The excuse lately has been that once you find the right guy, it won't matter. Now it's shifting to that you're not ready for a real relationship.

 

So what are you going to do about it? Keep doing the same thing you've always done? Occupy your time with drama with men so that you don't have to make any changes or confront the parts of yourself that need confronting? Meanwhile, time keeps passing by.

 

If you want to be ready, one avenue is to stop dating. Yep, you'll feel lonely. You'll feel undesirable. You'll feel scared. And those things are exactly the point. You use men to run away from those feelings, and the way out of this and toward changing your life for good is to do the opposite of what you do. Be alone. Feel scared and lonely and undesirable. Confront the dark feelings and work through them with your counselor.

 

That's how you find yourself and get real, and it's how you get your self in a state where you are ready for the relationship that you say that you want. Because you will be whole, and not looking to men to save you from yourself. You can't overattach if you're whole. You can't hand away your power if you're whole. You won't be scared to be alone if you're whole. You won't want to waste your time with a guy who isn't right for you because you may miss opportunities to meet other ones that might be right for you.

 

Then, when you are ready, meet men in different ways than how you've been meeting them. Go where the men with the qualities that you want (note: not the fatherly qualities like ego and protection because you should have dealt with that with your counselor during your alone time.) Do not sleep with these men. Date a few at a time so you don't get fixated on one and scare him off. The longer you can make yourself stay skeptical in order to see if guys will treat you right, the better. Eventually one will start to stand out, but you still need to take it slow and stay out of the bedroom until you are committed to one another, via exclusivity or a relationship. Mess up these steps, try to fast-forward through them so that you can sate that part of yourself that focuses so much on wanting to be wanted, and you will start your usual pattern right back up.

 

There you go. Those are some concrete suggestions on what you might change. You've got pages and pages of them in this thread, you've just dismissed them. You poo-poo them and use the rolling eyes smiley face. Look for the responses by you where you've abused the BIU buttons, because you're usually arguing with someone who has given you some good suggestions. Re-read those suggestions. The posts that you hate to read, the ones that aggravate you and challenge you - those are the ones you should pay attention to.

[venusishername]

Please try other dating sites, instead of tinder. Try match.com....Do all these and I guarantee that within a year, if you are disciplined, you're bound to find a good man.

Thanks, BlueEye. I have tried Match.com and I found it not my style for various reasons. The reason I've liked Tinder is because it eliminates all the creeps or people who you'd never date from messaging you. Tbh, I'd rather not do online dating. I've never been a huge fan. However, it's definitely a great way to meet people you wouldn't normally otherwise.

 

Venus, every time a guy viewed me seriously and wanted a relationship with me, I didn't wonder about anything. There was nothing to analyze because there were no inconsistencies. It was intentional, because he didn't want me to doubt him. Every single meaningful relationship I've had has started this way. Therefore I might presume that if I don't see this same pattern, it's not going to turn into a meaningful relationship.

 

I can relate, and I know exactly what you mean!

Going forward then, I am resolved to keep that in the forefront of my mind. Seriously. Because I know what you are referring to. You have to go through some disappointments then to know the difference, am I right? In that case, no harm no foul and it's not too late.

 

I'm not wondering anything about R. I am guilty of wondering with the last few 'relationships' I've had. But this time, not really. To me it seems very clear. He's been very straightforward and no games at all. But I get what you are referring to.

 

You could, if you wanted, make a decision about him right now. You can choose to let it play out, but know that is your choice, and know exactly what you'd need to see and hear in order to keep spending time on R. If you don't get those things, end it.

 

Of course I have the power to end it now and don't need to let it play out. I've said it a few times here: I have a tendency to shut down and close off from new relationships sometimes. I look back on a few and think "damn! If I had only given that a chance, or more time, etc." I'm 100% clear on what it is I want if I continue spending time with R, so it's going to make it very easy for me!

On the other hand, the past few days I've been feeling the need to step back and be alone for awhile anyway.

 

The trouble is that male attention comes easily and it's an easy distraction, and that's very difficult to ignore if I'm lonely (case in point: R)

Was lonely as hell, it's the holidays, just had a potential relationship disappear into thin air (A), and in walks R on a mission, unwilling to stop persisting. Kinda swept me off my feet. Which is what my heart wants.

Every woman wants that.

 

why are you dating and looking for a relationship if you know you're still not ready? I wish you'd detox from men until you were in a healthier mindset, because all of the drama involved with these guys keeps you from having to face yourself and what holds you back. You are, in effect, delaying being ready.

 

UGH this makes me a bit ruffled. The thing is that I didn't date for over two years after my ex and I split in 2011. It's only been in the last year that I've even considered a new relationship. I had blinders on for a long time and the thought of a bf or dating made me want to vomit, seriously. So I've had my time of being alone, that's for damn sure.

Makes me laugh: 'detox from men'.

 

So, I ask again, if you're not ready, why are your actions that of someone who is? Why are you so reluctant to take time off from dating and re-enter the market when you are ready?

 

Because I envy my friends who are married and already have their home and family. I've wanted that since I was four years old. There you go, BIU. I had a long term relationship that I thought would go there and it literally blew up in flames and traumatized me. Hence the not being completely ready. If I encounter anything that resembles a serious relationship I freak out. Because I want that, but the last one scarred me very badly. Do you understand??

 

With that being said, I continue dating because I'm ****ing lonely and it follows naturally that I would want to try and secure what I want... by dating. I can't get married if I don't date.

Also, many of my best girlfriends and mom and female family members are always asking about my dating, what's the latest?! It's like they feed on the gossip. I know they want to see me in a relationship too and they care. But their constant asking feeds into it, I'm sure.

 

One gf in particular is far worse than I am with the 'guy du jour' syndrome. It's annoying to me to hear her constantly obsess about it. It's like she NEEDS to be talking about some random guy all the time, and then the next week it's someone different, she gets silly crushes that change from week to week. Anyway, my point is... it's on my mind a lot and a topic of conversation. Honestly, with her at least I may just have to turn a deaf ear to it and not engage.

I say I'm 'not ready' because I think if I really was, I wouldn't drag it out with guys who aren't up to my standards.

 

It pains me to read that you still don't know what to change. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Idoltree. I don't mean that I'm not sure what to do. I've heard it here over and over and over. Don't think I don't know what to change. It's just a matter of changing it. Taking a break is probably the best start to that. I went from A to R over the past 4 months. I had no downtime in between with Maverick flying in on his jet and then away again, taking up a month of that time too. So.. I've been distracted. I haven't had time to make these leaps and bounds changes, although some tweaks in there recently.

 

So what are you going to do about it? Keep doing the same thing you've always done? Occupy your time with drama with men so that you don't have to make any changes or confront the parts of yourself that need confronting? Meanwhile, time keeps passing by.

 

No. I think it's a good idea to take some time off. Not forever, not for months and months. Just a bit of time. I like being with myself. I have my music to get into and a new job prospect. Lots of great friends and activities. I love where I live and I have a great life.

Go see the counselor next week.. maybe sooner. I feel like re-centering myself. That's really calling to me at the moment.

 

If you want to be ready, one avenue is to stop dating. Yep, you'll feel lonely. You'll feel undesirable. You'll feel scared. And those things are exactly the point. You use men to run away from those feelings, and the way out of this and toward changing your life for good is to do the opposite of what you do. Be alone. Feel scared and lonely and undesirable.

Like I said, I've done this in the past for a couple years, mind you.

I don't see the harm in doing it now for a bit though... and honestly, I'm looking forward to it

 

Look for the responses by you where you've abused the BIU buttons, because you're usually arguing with someone who has given you some good suggestions. Re-read those suggestions. The posts that you hate to read, the ones that aggravate you and challenge you - those are the ones you should pay attention to.

I've been so distracted I hadn't had time. But I did start from page one the other day and am getting through it. It ripped my heart out to go through the month of December when I was seeing A. I'll re-read those BIU posts.

 

 

And as a side note, since Brooke pointed out it's "SSDD" (I had to google that one); or someone here usually is asking 'what's the update, has he taken you to dinner yet'- I think I've ran this thread into the ground.

I think we all know it's not going to develop with R. So really no need to keep asking or writing about him. If something comes up and things take a good direction, awesome. But that ain't too likely. Let's be real.

The only reason I give a blow by blow sometimes is because people are asking me for updates. Also, it helps to write it out.

Edited February 18, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

SSDD...Nothing new. But for those of you who actually follow my posts, just an update as to how the 'break' is going.

It's been about a week's time that I decided to take a 'break' from actively dating. Only since Valentine's Day, or the morning after rather. That was the last time I saw or heard from R. I know that's not very long. But it's where I'm at right now. I can't imagine taking a very long break, but for now that's what I'm doing until I feel more ready.

 

As for R, we had that conversation last Saturday about getting to know each other more, let's have dinner, he wants to come see my place and wants to do this and that, etc. Big fat zero.

A week ago, I definitely would have given it a chance to see if he came through. I thought maybe he was thinking I'd come to him and open up more, initiate. I didn't, in the hopes that he wouldn't let the connection drop. When I spent the night Vday, I left in the morning and invited him to coffee, which he declined. Now, he's really on my **** list. It ****ing hurts. I seem to have problems making connections with men.

I think what has been missing is that 'falling in love' point. Obviously. I can't even get to two months.

 

Just like A the fireman, R could very easily just drop off the face of the earth, like nothing was ever between us. I realized this past week that the men I've dated in the past year's time have literally disappeared without any conversation, or explanation, or follow up. The one exception is that B sees me around town and makes a point to say hello to me, just because he's more polite and mature compared to the others. He's still checking me out. Occasionally, the falling off has been a mutual thing. But it still hurts!!!

 

I know we have discussed this at length and the consensus is that early sex is a big factor in my disappointments. I just think it creates more of a risk than what is already a risk to begin with. Also, as we all know... there's still 'feelings' without sex being involved, so the factor of disappointment will still be there, whether or not sex happened. I'm not saying that I'm not going to hold off on sex the next time. My opinion just isn't swayed on that point.

I see that the point is to get to know each other at a deeper level rather than leading with sex. I've definitely had that mindset with the last couple guys I've dated and posted about here; leading with sex. Putting the cart before the horse so to speak. I suppose that's why the real connection never developed. I thought a lot of the time it naturally followed.. but I guess not!! It's just still shocking to me how you could go for a month or more of talking nearly daily, seeing each other regularly for dates, and sleeping together.. to literally nothing. Like it was completely meaningless.

 

I feel like I'm having a lot of trouble making real connections with men. Yes, sex may have gotten in my way in the past couple instances. I just look around me and I feel like everyone that I know personally has these effortless dating experience and why is it so difficult for me? I can't just meet someone and have it take off and fall in love. A was the longest I've lasted with anyone since my ex, and he barely acknowledged me the other day in the store when I saw him. Unbelievable. That really hurt.

 

My gf is "99.9% sure" that R is going to pop back up one of these days... more or less when it's convenient for him. I know it's true he's had these weird odd hours at work lately and has been busy. However, the truth is he just pulled the old faithful disappearing act with me that seems so familiar. In any case, I'm preparing for when he resurfaces. I'm also fully expecting to never hear from him again. If I do hear from him, ha- he's in for a real surprise, that's for sure. The only way I'd ever consider seeing him again is if he put in the actual effort to do what he said he was going to do and actually date me and get to know me and be consistent.

I'll be honest, I am confused because he brought up that conversation with me the other night. He was also sure to reassure me that he didn't want me to think he was dropping off on me or purposely delaying responding, that he wasn't seeing anyone else. That's what's thrown me off as to why his silence this past week. Why try and convince me to open up to him and trust when he just pulled away?

What threw me off also with R is that he was consistent and persistent. I declined about half of his invitations, and have yet to ever extend my own. I thought 'why should I? I feel so hesitant about this'. I thought maybe that was a reason why he pulled back; that I'm too reserved and he can't read me. I think I sure did give him mixed signals; he kept mentioning he wasn't sure how I was feeling about it. On the other hand, I don't want to put any effort into a guy who waits until 7:00 on a Saturday night to firm up any plans with me either. Same goes for 'want to come over?' or 'would you like to come out for a drink, I'm out with a buddy'. I realize in our early thirties that isn't so unusual and it doesn't have to be a formal old fashioned date every time. I see many of my friends who have built relationships doing 'casual' things like that. However, with R....not enough effort. He dropped it after he kept getting laid. Textbook, isn't it? Can't help but predict: in a few days or this weekend, I'll hear from him. Ha, in my case, probably not. I'll be honest, it would be more satisfying to me to hear from him so I can give him a piece of my mind and feel like I was the one in control of ending this. I know that's silly. And by me never contacting him, it's me taking the power into my own hands and knowing I want more than that. It's just a matter of me wanting the last word and the satisfaction of putting my foot down with him. Immature, I know.

 

All of these recent experiences make me extremely cynical and even angry. My gf that I mentioned, she's always harping on about some crush who she's obsessing over. (I know, I'm bad, but trust me she's worse!!)

I was so annoyed with it and men in general the other night I deflected every conversation she brought up about her crush du jour. "Do you think he's going to text me back tonight?" "What do you think the odds are?" "Why hasn't he responded to me?!" Constantly checking her phone. I really wanted let my inner bitch come out and say 'who gives a flying **** about this guy? Just because he asked you out does not give you cause to act like a bimbo about him.' It was ****ing painful to watch. I vowed right then I would never act like that about another man again. It was pitiful. In the future, with her.. I'm going to have to deflect those conversations because I'm tired of it. Ultimately, I'm tired of it for myself and am projecting it onto her.

 

But... on the other hand... I'm getting back into my music, focusing on working out, and enjoying my alone time! Of course, there have been days and nights that of course I'd rather be with a significant other or my imaginary family instead of alone or with my 'makeshift family' that consists of my friend, her hubby and child. They let me tag along and it's nice to feel that family togetherness even though it's not my own.

 

I'm still very lonely. I do want to find love. I get a lot of male attention. I just haven't found love out of it in a long ass time. I just don't think it's been the right time and I haven't been fully ready. I'm not using that as an excuse. I just haven't yet been emotionally ready, or 'whole' as idoltree pointed out. I've also never been single until these past few years, so that's something I need to be aware of too that may be necessary. I need to embrace this time in my life and not hang on the past or hope so much for the future.

Edited February 23, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

Double post!

Edited February 23, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

Oh Venus, I'm sorry.

 

I'm not horribly surprised, but it's a sucky thing to go through, no matter what.

 

I think it'd be helpful to remind yourself that this was a man whose first date idea was inviting you to his place, which is total red flag behavior. In a fit of IDGAF, you threw caution to the wind and had sex, then caught feelings and tried to justify all of his subsequent behavior. I think you really wanted him to like you more than a FWB, so you can't help but have confirmation bias, so you chose to interpret his words (he wants to make plans with me!) as proof that he was interested in more.

 

I had a FWB last summer who did act warm toward me. He drove across town to pick me up. He called all the time. He took me to dinner a couple of times. I thought, certainly, he must be interested in more, but he wasn't. Because unless you're a total *******, you're not going to treat a regular sex partner like sh*t—you want to make sure they keep sleeping with you!

 

However, a man's seeming "interest" is a horrible way to gage his willingness to commit.

 

I've said this before, but because you cannot control the words or actions of anyone else, it's important to get crystal clear in what you want, vis-a-vis any of these men you see. If you don't want casual, then don't act casual. And if you're going to act casual, then go in with your eyes open—that this kind of disappearing act could happen anytime.

[venusishername]

Oh Venus, I'm sorry.

I'm not horribly surprised, but it's a sucky thing to go through, no matter what.

I think it'd be helpful to remind yourself that this was a man whose first date idea was inviting you to his place, which is total red flag behavior. In a fit of IDGAF, you threw caution to the wind and had sex, then caught feelings and tried to justify all of his subsequent behavior. I think you really wanted him to like you more than a FWB, so you can't help but have confirmation bias, so you chose to interpret his words (he wants to make plans with me!) as proof that he was interested in more.

I had a FWB last summer who did act warm toward me. He drove across town to pick me up. He called all the time. He took me to dinner a couple of times. I thought, certainly, he must be interested in more, but he wasn't. Because unless you're a total *******, you're not going to treat a regular sex partner like sh*t—you want to make sure they keep sleeping with you!

However, a man's seeming "interest" is a horrible way to gage his willingness to commit.

I've said this before, but because you cannot control the words or actions of anyone else, it's important to get crystal clear in what you want, vis-a-vis any of these men you see. If you don't want casual, then don't act casual. And if you're going to act casual, then go in with your eyes open—that this kind of disappearing act could happen anytime.

Thank you. I did begin to think that he was interested in something more. In fact the last time we spoke (Vday) he was all about getting to know me more and making plans, etc. That seemed to fall off completely.

 

I'm really torn between disappearing on him (the same way he and other men have been disappearing on me) and actually confronting the situation. This was simply a suggestion from a friend today. It wouldn't hurt. Like 'hey, wtf? If we're not on the same page, that's fine but don't pull the disappearing act.' I don't tolerate this half-assed crap. Up until Vday, he WAS consistent and persistent and kept in near daily contact. After Vday, everything stopped. This was after he had made a point to tell me how he wanted to get to know me more. I think that's deserving of a "WTF, R??"

I'm so used to disappearing myself out of sheer indifference, or not wanting to appear like I'm chasing. Maybe it would be helpful to confront it and stand up for myself this time. At least then I'd have a clear answer and avoid future awkwardness if we put it to bed (no pun intended!) Maybe it would help me understand WHY this keeps happening. I wouldn't be chasing him. I have no interest in seeing him again if this is all it will be. Yes, it appears it is all it will ever be.I mean, I've been extremely physically intimate with this man. He can't just get away with screwing me and telling me pretty words and then disappearing. Now I'm pissed. I'm also unafraid as to what he or anyone thinks about me either.

Acting casual to me would mean that I'm ok with being discarded and ignored. Like with A. Made me feel super ****ty when I ran into him a few days ago that I never even confronted him about it.

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2015 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Don't do it. He's not going to give you a satisfactory explanation, and to be honest, he doesn't owe you anything at this point. This wasn't a committed, exclusive relationship. It seems that he was pretty clear about being casual from the beginning, so a confrontation would just make you look clingy and desperate. (Mind you, I don't think you're clingy or desperate at all, but there's no point in saying "Hey! Why weren't you more obvious about only wanting sex with me?")

 

Venus, I never thought I'd say this but I'm finally in the same boat with lissvarna and the rest of the women on this thread: you need to stop having sex so quickly. It's not because there's any issue with the sex itself, but it's evident that you A) can't be casual once you've had sex and B) think that these flings are far more serious and meaningful than they are. Your situation with A was basically FWB; you spent a couple of weeks occasionally hanging out and having sex so it's natural that he doesn't think much of it.

 

Hold out for someone who will treat you well and be serious, clear and mature in his intentions. Don't settle for anything less.

Edited February 24, 2015 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ

[venusishername]

Don't do it. He's not going to give you a satisfactory explanation, and to be honest, he doesn't owe you anything at this point. This wasn't a committed, exclusive relationship. It seems that he was pretty clear about being casual from the beginning, so a confrontation would just make you look clingy and desperate. (Mind you, I don't think you're clingy or desperate at all, but there's no point in saying "Hey! Why weren't you more obvious about only wanting sex with me?")

 

Venus, I never thought I'd say this but I'm in the same boat with lissvarna and the rest of the women on this thread: you really need to stop having sex so quickly. It's not because there's any issue with the sex itself, but it's evident that you A) can't be casual once you've had sex and B) think that these flings are far more serious and meaningful than they are. Your situation with A was basically FWB; you spent a couple of weeks occasionally hanging out and having sex so it's natural that he doesn't think much of it.

Hold out for someone who will treat you well and be serious, clear and mature in his intentions. Don't settle for anything less.

 

I don't consider myself clingy or desperate either and you know, I'm really not looking for an explanation. The point is for me to not tolerate being discarded like I don't matter.

I can't say that he was clear that he was only interested in sex from the start. I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. After what he told me Vday, I began to think that he truly was interested in more. The reason I thought about confronting it is because it ****ing hurts too much to be discarded like our interactions were completely meaningless. I was intimate with this man. I'm so much more than just a "FWB" as you all like to call it; I feel this fire under me like I won't tolerate being treated like this anymore!!!! Maybe that's something I've failed to do in the past and something I need to do. If I act like I'm ok with casual, I'll be treated like casual. Right? What good does it do to allow someone to treat you as dispensable when you aren't??!! **** that. I am so angry.

 

Just like with A. A and I DID have conversations, we did have quality time. I consider that more than just a forgettable fling. He wasn't my bf, but I felt there was definitely more of a connection there than just a bed buddy. Plus the fact that I live in the same town as these people makes me more apt to want to at least communicate about it.

I agree with you about the waiting longer for sex, absolutely, absolutely. Lesson learned. Difficult, but worth waiting for I'm sure. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I also agree with holding out for someone mature and clear with his intentions. So looking forward to meeting that man.

Edited February 24, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

I can't say that he was clear that he was only interested in sex from the start. I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. After what he told me Vday, I began to think that he was interested in more. I know if he really was, he would follow through.

 

That's true, but ... I'd be curious to know how you think a man who was only interested in casual sex would act. A man who just wants sex isn't necessarily going to act like a cad. A man can sincerely like you a lot, do nice things for you, care for you, and express "interest" in you (as a human being), but that DOES NOT MEAN he wants a relationship. Most men, probably, who want to get laid aren't going to be content to just stick it in any old hole. They want to spend time with a woman they find attractive who has a good personality. But again, that doesn't mean they want to be your boyfriend. I think women can't quite fathom that, and it's a fundamental difference in how we process things as genders. We think, well why would a man do *xyz, fill in the blank* if he wasn't "INTERESTED???" It doesn't make sense to us, because, unless we're in what we perceive to be a FWB situation, we think, "well I would NEVER do these things with a man I didn't want to have a relationship with." That disconnect happens all the time.

 

You don't have to "wait for a man who's clear in his intentions," YOU can be clear in YOUR intentions—right now. You say you "took a chance" with R because of his "perceived interest," but in the future, before you have sex, which can be as early or late as you want, you say that you don't want to have sex until you're exclusive or committed or whatever you want to call it. Based on the guy's response, you then act accordingly.

 

Basing the likelihood of a relationship on your interpretation of a man's indicators of "interest" is risky. Being clear with your words BEFORE the fact is still risky, but less so. But that's how you guard yourself again potential disappointment later on. You're mad at R now because of your unmet expectations—expectations that you never stopped to clarify ahead of time.

 

My roommate is 42 years old. Never been married, never had kids. She wants a family and is running out of time. Her BF, her first healthy relationship, just ended things with her this weekend after six months. Understandably, she was devastated. He cared for her, he always treated her well, but at the end of the day, they weren't on the same page. They wanted different things—she wants to start a family right away; he wants to wait a few years. The fact that she waited six months to bring that up is on her. If she wants to be married within a year, she cannot spend six months with a man who is not interested in that. She did not have to jump ahead of the situation and assume, because it was finally a healthy relationship, or that he treated her well, that he was going to be THE ONE.

 

I'm as guilty of this as anyone else. Don't get me wrong. I think we avoid having these discussions because we're afraid of the answers, but in reality, it hurts more in the long run not to ask.

[Weezy1973]

Hey Venus,

 

I've been following your thread for awhile and it has been a good read. I think the issue is rather simple:

 

You're attracted to qualities that are meaningless when it comes to long term relationships.

 

This is not to say you don't also value relationship type qualities (like empathy, compassion, an ability to compromise, dependability, honesty, reliability, integrity etc.). But it is to say that those qualities don't have much of an effect when it comes to your sexual attraction.

 

So it makes sense that you have sex early on, because you are genuinely attracted to these guys! Women who have an easier time getting into serious relationships are naturally attracted to those types of qualities I listed above so aren't nearly as tempted to have sex early on because those qualities take time to present themselves.

 

What you're doing essentially is getting intimate with men because of sexual attraction (which in your case is not an indicator of good relationship material) and then crossing your fingers and hoping they will be good long term partners.

 

If you really want a long term relationship, your method is incredibly inefficient. Even if you are naturally attracted to non-relationship type qualities (like arrogance, cockiness etc.), you need to act as though you're attracted to relationship type qualities. This means your behaviour needs to be different from your instincts. Your feelings, in this case, aren't useful in getting into a meaningful long term relationship. So you have to act in the right way to get into a long term relationship regardless of how you feel.

 

Which is hard.

[BluEyeL]

Hey Venus,

 

I've been following your thread for awhile and it has been a good read. I think the issue is rather simple:

 

You're attracted to qualities that are meaningless when it comes to long term relationships.

 

This is not to say you don't also value relationship type qualities (like empathy, compassion, an ability to compromise, dependability, honesty, reliability, integrity etc.). But it is to say that those qualities don't have much of an effect when it comes to your sexual attraction.

 

So it makes sense that you have sex early on, because you are genuinely attracted to these guys! Women who have an easier time getting into serious relationships are naturally attracted to those types of qualities I listed above so aren't nearly as tempted to have sex early on because those qualities take time to present themselves.

 

What you're doing essentially is getting intimate with men because of sexual attraction (which in your case is not an indicator of good relationship material) and then crossing your fingers and hoping they will be good long term partners.

 

If you really want a long term relationship, your method is incredibly inefficient. Even if you are naturally attracted to non-relationship type qualities (like arrogance, cockiness etc.), you need to act as though you're attracted to relationship type qualities. This means your behaviour needs to be different from your instincts. Your feelings, in this case, aren't useful in getting into a meaningful long term relationship. So you have to act in the right way to get into a long term relationship regardless of how you feel.

 

Which is hard.

 

Venus, I wish I could like this post 100 times. This person is spot on!!

 

You asked why does this keep happening. This is why!^^^

 

Practical advice (which you rejected before, but I'm a mom and I like to nag):

1. Don't use tinder, use match.com (yeah, I know you didn't like it; it works though in ways tinder doesn't; it attracts more relationship minded men).

 

2. Don't sleep with any man until you find out if he has the qualities that the poster above listed. And that requires some time. During that time, a good man will continue to court you, while an arse will leave because he wasn't getting any and is not willing to put effort into you. That's a good thing, the arses get weeked out!!

 

3. Don't "hang out" in a group of friends. Meet only men who take you out on public dates at least once a week. Nothing less. And weekend nights after 1-2 dates.

 

4. No sex before the exclusivity talk.

 

5. No big discussions on "where are we going", "what I want from this relationship" until you feel squarely and securely in an exclusive relationship with a man. And even then, don't talk too much about the relationship.Talk briefly, but not too much.

 

Losangelena, I agree about your roommate in some ways and I disagree in other ways. She shouldn't have directly asked about the family and children. But she could have gauged her love interest's ideas on the topic, but bringing up indirect discussions about family/marriage in general. If you confront them too early, about anything, they freak out. But overall, you have to put in some time to get to know the person. And sometime you find out you're not a match. It's late for her to have a family. She should either freeze her eggs or just give up on kids and seek fulfillment in other ways, aside for children. She can definitely still find love, but with a children agenda, it's gonna be too much pressure on her and on her dating partners and she's going to project anxiety and pressure men too early. Nobody wants to get married within a year these days... That rarely happens anymore.

[venusishername]

A man can sincerely like you a lot, do nice things for you, care for you, and express "interest" in you (as a human being), but that DOES NOT MEAN he wants a relationship. Most men, probably, who want to get laid aren't going to be content to just stick it in any old hole. They want to spend time with a woman they find attractive who has a good personality. But again, that doesn't mean they want to be your boyfriend. I think women can't quite fathom that, and it's a fundamental difference in how we process things as genders. We think, well why would a man do *xyz, fill in the blank* if he wasn't "INTERESTED???"

You nailed it. And you're right, it doesn't make any sense at all to me as a woman. If I really like a guy that I find attractive and enjoy being with, then duh, I'm going to want to continue seeing him and yes, explore whether it COULD develop into a relationship.

This is what pisses me off about R. I said those things to him the last time we saw each other! AGHHHH! It seemed to me that he also felt the same way and HE was the one who said I want to get to know you more, and here are the examples of HOW I'd like to get to know you more, Venus. One including a dinner date again post Vday. At least that's what he vocalized, as did I. Look what happened. Nothing! That's why I'm itching to contact him; "like seriously, wtf? Was that another man who told me those things or was that you that night, R??"

 

How about when he volunteered: 'Venus I just wanted you to know that I'm not seeing anyone else and I don't want you to think I was ignoring you or trying to hold you off this past week. I've been working crazy hours and I have wanted to see you. You declined my invitations twice in the past week, so I wasn't really sure what you were looking for out of this and you've been really reserved with me. When are you going to let me get to know you more in xyz way? You seem to not be looking for anything (serious)?? (question)?? This is what he said to me!!!

 

I know I wrote about this before, but this is where I'm struggling to NOT contact him. I told him that night that I DO want something substantial and I'm not looking for something just casual, BUT that I want to spend time getting to know him more and I do like him. Let's see how it develops, but let's make a point to get to know each other more. I was clear. I thought I was clear.

 

When I left the next morning, we didn't talk about next time. I never contacted him, same as he never contacted me since. I can't help but think he might be confused as to my mixed signals! I spend time with him, I slept with him a couple times which was more than amazing, but then again I decline half his invites, don't respond right away, and become shy and aloof when it comes to opening up. I've never once initiated or opened up my home to him. I was afraid to, I guess. And this is why.

 

You don't have to "wait for a man who's clear in his intentions," YOU can be clear in YOUR intentions—right now.

Basing the likelihood of a relationship on your interpretation of a man's indicators of "interest" is risky. Being clear with your words BEFORE the fact is still risky, but less so. But that's how you guard yourself again potential disappointment later on. You're mad at R now because of your unmet expectations—expectations that you never stopped to clarify ahead of time.

Ok, this is mostly true; I could've said MORE. But losangelena, remember when he asked me over for wine and movie on the SECOND date? I said 'I would feel more comfortable getting to know you in public, and I'm looking for something substantial (meaning beyond sex/alone time in a man's house) just to be clear.' He asked me again and again until I agreed. Then he called, and made a day date in public, picked me up and all. He knew!

 

Again, I clarified my intentions on Vday when he asked what I was looking for. I told him again. Read the above! He took that information, took my hand, put his arm around me, and told me on the way home very sweet words... and took me to bed.

Was I not clear enough that I wanted MORE than to be a toy to be tossed aside when he was done with it?!! He knew that all along, and he continued the pursuit... until last weekend.

 

So I disagree with you, that I didn't make my intentions clear. I certainly made it clear with A when we were seeing each other.

Perhaps though my words and my actions conflicted with R. I certainly felt conflicted. Gosh, I am really considering contacting him. I don't care if he thinks I'm clingy and desperate, because I know I'm not. It's extremely likely we will see each other around town as it is a small community and we live close.

 

I'm not seeking an explanation from him. I'd just like to clarify that I was interested in getting to know him more and spending more time together like we talked about. I've been confused and assumed that after our last conversation, that we just weren't on the same page with what we are looking for. If that's the case, I understand and thanks for the memories. If that's not the case, then let's talk!' What's so bad about that?

I can't stand the thought of another one dropping off the face of the earth and pretending I never existed, like it was all meaningless.

 

What you're doing essentially is getting intimate with men because of sexual attraction (which in your case is not an indicator of good relationship material) and then crossing your fingers and hoping they will be good long term partners.

 

If you really want a long term relationship, your method is incredibly inefficient. Even if you are naturally attracted to non-relationship type qualities (like arrogance, cockiness etc.), you need to act as though you're attracted to relationship type qualities. This means your behaviour needs to be different from your instincts. Your feelings, in this case, aren't useful in getting into a meaningful long term relationship. So you have to act in the right way to get into a long term relationship regardless of how you feel. Which is hard.

Thanks, Weezy. Ok, so my behavior needs to be different from my instincts. You say it is 'hard' but it is difficult for me to grasp as far as an example. Throw the instincts out the window. Idoltree has mentioned this too.

My issue is that having a strong sexual attraction is a very vital part of what I want in a long term relationship too. OF COURSE I value qualities like honesty, work ethic, respect, dependability, reliability, integrity, etc. In my past, my two long term relationships were based and started with a strong sexual attraction. Those guys had the ego and the cockiness and masculinity I just keep falling for. They just by chance happened to develop into long term relationships. Interestingly enough, those guys did NOT possess qualities that made them a good long term partner. It was rooted in sex and attraction, although we did grow a solid friendship with time. My last bf I look back and in the end had very little respect for him. And vice versa. When the true character came through over a year, two, three, I lost that hot desire to be with him romantically/sexually. Interesting.

 

1. Don't use tinder, use match.com (yeah, I know you didn't like it; it works though in ways tinder doesn't; it attracts more relationship minded men).

How about men on Tinder who write "looking for a girlfriend. looking for something real. Looking for love"?? How about if you encounter someone, chatting for a bit and putting it out there and determining if you are on the same page before proceeding? I've done that on several occasions now and it seems to effectively eliminates the ones who are not relationship-minded. How about when I'm the one that also writes that I'm 'looking for the potential for a relationship'?? Seems to me to be a clear way to eliminate.

 

Don't sleep with any man until you find out if he has the qualities that the poster above listed. And that requires some time. During that time, a good man will continue to court you, while an arse will leave because he wasn't getting any and is not willing to put effort into you. That's a good thing, the arses get weeked out!!

This is probably the best piece of advice I can take out of all this. Tinder v. Match is questionable, but this point is solid

 

No big discussions on "where are we going", "what I want from this relationship" until you feel squarely and securely in an exclusive relationship with a man. And even then, don't talk too much about the relationship.Talk briefly, but not too much.

Hold on. I've been told over and over to make my intentions known and ask, hell, demand "where is this going/what are you looking for?" in the very early stages of dating. Like on date number three. I am with you though, BlueEye, that it shouldn't be TALKED about so much as it should be REVEALED by actions... This is why I never did ask R. I thought the answer would reveal itself in his actions. Others here are telling me to put that conversation up as early as after the first date, when exclusivity isn't even near the horizon.

Nobody wants to get married within a year these days... That rarely happens anymore.

 

 

Well, I do! If I meet the right guy, and fall in love again finally... I would like to get married as soon as possible.

Edited February 25, 2015 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

Venus,

 

 

 

 

 

 

If he was truly into you as more than just a casual prospect, he would have asked you on a date ON valentines day! You would not have ran into him, he would have ASKED you on a date for V day. That is what most men would do if they felt strong romantic inclinations towards you! I have learnt that men can really like you as a person and find you very sexy and yet NOT feel deep enough romantic inclinations towards you to want a RELATIONSHIP. These men clearly think you are a cool and sexy woman, however, they don't like you enough to go much deeper than that. And their actions have spelt it out to me the entire time yet you fail to see it and read inbetween the lines. They are not DIS - interested! But they are not that into you beyond the surface, either! They are sufficiently ATTACTED to have a relationship with you, but you clearly don't click with them on THAT level for them to want a RELATIONSHIP with you beyond sex and good company.

[venusishername]

Venus, If he was truly into you as more than just a casual prospect, he would have asked you on a date ON valentines day! You would not have ran into him, he would have ASKED you on a date for V day. That is what most men would do if they felt strong romantic inclinations towards you! I have learnt that men can really like you as a person and find you very sexy and yet NOT feel deep enough romantic inclinations towards you to want a RELATIONSHIP. These men clearly think you are a cool and sexy woman, however, they don't like you enough to go much deeper than that. And their actions have spelt it out to me the entire time yet you fail to see it and read inbetween the lines. They are not DIS - interested! But they are not that into you beyond the surface, either! They are sufficiently ATTACTED to have a relationship with you, but you clearly don't click with them on THAT level for them to want a RELATIONSHIP with you beyond sex and good company.

 

 

I guess texting me in the morning and all day long and finally asking to see me after dinner time is not "asking me out on a date". It's making loose plans. I thought the fact that he was contacting me at all that day and wishing me "Happy V day, beautiful sexy girl" in the early daylight hours was simply him expressing that he wanted to wanted to be with me on Valentine's Day. We didn't run into each other and have our 'date' then and there, just for the record. I know though.. it was not what I was hoping for. He did bring up the 'the non-date' later.. but no matter at this point.

 

When you say it's clear that they think I'm a cool and sexy woman, etc..(which I agree, that they do)... but they don't like me enough to go deeper than that. I have to wonder well why the hell not?? I think I'm a great person and a catch! A lot of people who know me would agree! Even these men I write about would say that too. I wouldn't doubt each one, B, A, and R... would all have nothing but good things to say about me. Then why is it that I'm not 'likeable enough' beyond the surface to those who think that about me?? Why am I not good enough, not worthy of being loved in a deeper way?

 

It's like saying "Wow, Venus is a fantastic woman. She's beautiful, smart, cool, talented, sweet, sexy, fun to be with, lively, bright, and she makes me feel great and sexy. We have great conversations and we have some things in common too! But I don't really like her that much, even though she has all these great attributes and I enjoy her company. I have no romantic inclinations towards a woman like that. Someone else can have her." Huh?!

That's what I meant the other day when I wrote that I feel like I'm having trouble 'connecting' with the men I date. You call it 'clicking'.

I take you to mean there's no 'falling in love' involved in my situations. Which is glaringly obvious isn't it!?!

And that can't be forced on either end, really. So even if someone felt that way about me, it wouldn't guarantee I'd feel the same and it could go anywhere.

 

I see no reason why someone wouldn't fall in love with me. I know not everyone will like me (or love me) in life, only some, maybe very few. So when you say what you are saying above, I do understand what you mean... but it makes me feel really bad at the same time; not good enough.

It's just like my recent job interviews (I'm currently employed, looking for something else). Here's what I keep hearing more or less: You have a stellar resume and your letter of recommendation was impressive, you nailed the interview. But we gave the intern or clerk who have less education and experience than you do a promotion. You're pretty damn good, Venus... but you just aren't good enough to get this. This one thing you really want. A real relationship. A new job.

 

 

I've heard it a lot from my family and friends: What's WRONG with these guys?? What's wrong with these potential employers?? Because my family and friends think so highly of me. I guess maybe I haven't met someone who truly does see my worth, or there have been but I haven't given my attention to them.

Because the men I've dated and wrote about here; I have HOPED for the falling in love part to follow/precede with each of them. It just never did. And it makes me feel bad, thinking that they sure did like me but just not ENOUGH. That's the root of all my insecurity.

I even had the passing thought here and there that 'If these men I've been dating only see my worth as a casual prospect, then that is what I should resort to from now on, because they must be right. I must be lacking in some important quality that all my friends and family members have/had in their marriages, relationships. That's all I'll ever be, just a casual prospect. I'm not like the other people I know, so I may as well embrace it because that's the best I can get'. I know that's fatalistic and not true and it has to do with other factors than myself. I'm just so down.

 

I feel like just wallowing for the rest of the week.. and being alone, which is unusual for me. It's times like this that all I want is to be alone and close off and be at home. That is very unlike me, I am a socially busy person and love to go out and be around people. Times like this, I need to introspect. I've been doing that over the past week or so now and it sucks going through the pain.

Edited February 25, 2015 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

How about men on Tinder who write "looking for a girlfriend. looking for something real. Looking for love"?? How about if you encounter someone, chatting for a bit and putting it out there and determining if you are on the same page before proceeding? I've done that on several occasions now and it seems to effectively eliminates the ones who are not relationship-minded. How about when I'm the one that also writes that I'm 'looking for the potential for a relationship'?? Seems to me to be a clear way to eliminate.

 

I highlighted the above part in bold because it's evidently false. Haven't most of the guys you've met in this thread come from Tinder? Also, while we're debating semantics, "looking for the potential for a relationship" is not particularly clear. Looking for potential? Why not just say you're looking for a committed relationship, period?

 

BluEyeL is correct: guys on a paid website with detailed profiles are naturally going to be more invested in a relationship than guys using an app that takes as much effort as changing a channel. Match isn't big in all towns, and it may not be the most popular choice where you live, but it's going to give you more suitable options. Even OKC is more involved than Tinder. Whether you're willing to admit it, Tinder is for the lowest common denominator and everyone knows it.

 

Perhaps though my words and my actions conflicted with R.

 

At the end of the day, you told him what you wanted and invited him for coffee. That's pretty clear. He declined and hasn't spoken to you since. That's pretty clear, too.

 

I am tempted to say that R is the one whose words were conflicting with his actions, and maybe that's true to an extent. But ultimately he was very clear that he couldn't give you the investment you're looking for. You pointed out all these "clues" suggesting he was interested in something more. But all of your friends agreed that he was clearly in it for sex, so it seems like you were stretching to interpret things a certain way. This may be part of your basic inability to read people.

 

But losangelena, remember when he asked me over for wine and movie on the SECOND date? I said 'I would feel more comfortable getting to know you in public, and I'm looking for something substantial (meaning beyond sex/alone time in a man's house) just to be clear.' He asked me again and again until I agreed. Then he called, and made a day date in public, picked me up and all. He knew!

 

He knew he would have to pick you up in public and buy you dinner before you had sex, so he did.

 

Again, I clarified my intentions on Vday when he asked what I was looking for. I told him again...Was I not clear enough that I wanted MORE than to be a toy to be tossed aside when he was done with it?!! He knew that all along...

 

You sound like you're blaming him for knowing you wanted something else and sleeping with you anyway. He wanted to have sex with you. You insisted you wanted more. He gave the bare minimum, without the promise of exclusivity or a committed relationship, and you went for it anyway. He ignored your texts half the time and made no efforts to take you on any more dates, told you he didn't have time to spend with you and didn't want to make you a priority...and you kept having sex with him. Then after he said he didn't want to do anything for you on Valentine's Day you had sex with him again.

 

If you don't want to be treated like a toy or a FWB (I know you hate that term and am using it to drive the point home) then don't act like one. Insist on proper date and make your expectations for an exclusive, committed relationship clear before you have sex, and when a man puts you at the bottom of his priority list then delete his number. Meanwhile R kept giving you so much less than what you wanted and you kept going back for more.

 

He took that information, took my hand, put his arm around me, and told me on the way home very sweet words... and took me to bed.

 

This pretty much sums it up.

 

It's okay to take some time for yourself and be sad when you experience a major blow of any kind. You just need to know that the time is finite and after your hours/day/weekend is up, you have to get back in the saddle and try again. (I don't mean getting back to dating, just being social and resuming your usual routine.) I just had a career disappointment and am prone to the same crappy, fatalistic this-is-all-I'll-ever-be thinking you are. It happens! My treatment plan involves CBT, exercise and Netflix. What's yours?

Edited February 25, 2015 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ

[BluEyeL]

Venus, it doesn't matter what people say in their profiles. A lot of it it's false advertising. When I was dating, I was quickly reading the profiles but just to see how good of a writer the person is, if they sound crazy, but I wasn't believing what they were saying, until I met them, dated them for a while and found out for myself what it is they're looking for. Some men lie to get sex, some men would do anything they could easily do to get sex (words are the easiest way, no effort necessary), and some men don't care who they hurt.

 

I don't know what you've been told, but you should not openly discuss, early on, "what you're looking for". You're communicating that with your actions and he communicates that with their actions. You can ask indirect questions. Their intentions will be revealed by the way they act and you're intentions will be revealed by what you DO. What people say should be taken with a grain of salt until they actually DO what they say.

 

R disappeared after you discussed what you each wanted and he said blah blah to take you to bed, but because he made those promises that weren't true, that's why he disappeared. He figured he'd need to make a real effort and he doesn't want to.

 

There are players on match.com too and on every site. I just think there are also more good men there than on free sites.

 

Just follow that recipe and it'll save you a bunch of heartache. Sure, it'll still take time and you'll still get disappointed, but I guarantee you'll have much much higher chances of finding a relationship and love if you do what we explained.

 

Also, read again what Weezy said, excellent advice. Go out of your comfort zone and give a chance to guys that are not as exciting but have character traits that are good predictors for lasting love.

 

Read the book "the science of happily ever after". It's not a dating book.

[venusishername]

Haven't most of the guys you've met in this thread come from Tinder?

No. I met A and R in real life in the past. At the time R and I were both with other people, it was over Labor Day weekend. Then we reconnected via Tinder. With A, we met at a restaurant over the summer and reconnected.

 

Even OKC is more involved than Tinder. Whether you're willing to admit it, Tinder is for the lowest common denominator and everyone knows it.

I think that it gets a bad rap for people who do use it to hook up. Aren't you in a relationship, btw? How can you speak in generalities about dating sites if you don't currently use them? I've used Match, OKC, and Tinder within the past year or so. OKC to me is the creepiest of the bunch. I've never gotten so many weirdos from across the U.S. looking for a penpal.

I have been told very creepy things on OKC and Match. Like creepy sexual things that I have to report to the site. I also get a lot of very old or very young men who contact me and I have to sift through tons of emails. Not my style. I'd rather screen or filter the people who can contact me, which is why I like Tinder. It greatly limits the men who can contact you.

 

At the end of the day, you told him what you wanted and invited him for coffee. That's pretty clear. He declined and hasn't spoken to you since. That's pretty clear, too.

I thought we both were on the same page after that conversation. Apparently not. I still have this nagging thought that maybe he was in fact confused as to how I felt about it, since he kept mentioning that all along and even that night. How I was so hard to read.

You sound like you're blaming him for knowing you wanted something else and sleeping with you anyway. He wanted to have sex with you. You insisted you wanted more. He gave the bare minimum, without the promise of exclusivity or a committed relationship, and you went for it anyway. He ignored your texts half the time and made no efforts to take you on any more dates, told you he didn't have time to spend with you and didn't want to make you a priority...and you kept having sex with him. Then after he said he didn't want to do anything for you on Valentine's Day you had sex with him again.

Your bolded part is absolutely true and I have to own that. The feeling of wanting sex was very mutual. I see that is the problem though that I said what I did and then did something else. My actions and words conflicted.

 

 

I get the point you are making with the rest of the paragraph, but you are stretching the facts. He didn't ignore me half the time, and he did make efforts to take me on more dates. Remember I kept declining?? It was twice the week of Vday that he asked me out for dates and I said no, or didn't respond until hours later. He also didn't say he doesn't have time to spend or that he didn't want to do anything for me on Vday. I don't see where that information is coming from. I was there, I know what he said and it wasn't that.

If you don't want to be treated like a toy or a FWB (I know you hate that term and am using it to drive the point home) then don't act like one. Insist on proper date and make your expectations for an exclusive, committed relationship clear before you have sex, and when a man puts you at the bottom of his priority list then delete his number. Meanwhile R kept giving you so much less than what you wanted and you kept going back for more.

But the thing is, I thought I was clear that I was not interested in anything casual and was looking for something substantial. How can I say that to someone in the future and then when I DO eventually sleep with him, I'll find myself in the same boat, don't you think??!?!?? What am I missing here???

I did insist on proper date(s), at the start anyway. Vday was not a proper date.

I admit that I acted like a "FWB" in many ways. I had sex goggles on, and I'll be honest... the idea of his affections (public and private) were my weak point and very appealing as I knew how great those affections would feel. As you all know I thought that maybe something more could develop, so I kept giving it a chance. After Vday and when he declined my coffee invite, I was like, 'well, that was another chance I gave him, and he just blew it.'

I just had a career disappointment and am prone to the same crappy, fatalistic this-is-all-I'll-ever-be thinking you are. It happens! My treatment plan involves CBT, exercise and Netflix. What's yours?

Thanks. I've been getting into hot yoga and exercising of course, lots of long walks, writing, listening to music, and also I have an appointment with the therapist tomorrow which I'm really looking forward to.

 

I don't know what you've been told, but you should not openly discuss, early on, "what you're looking for". You're communicating that with your actions and he communicates that with their actions. You can ask indirect questions. Their intentions will be revealed by the way they act and you're intentions will be revealed by what you DO. What people say should be taken with a grain of salt until they actually DO what they say.

 

I'll tell you what I have been told, in particular by Chimpan-z about a page or two back who says that I must ask someone I have been out with around date one or two, "what are you looking for?"

But I agree with you, BlueEye. That anyone can say anything, but it's the actions that count. Most of the advice I read here is telling me to be clear as day by saying "I want a committed, exclusive relationship" and asking "Are you looking for the same?" straight away. Just read the posts above.

 

The thing is, most all people ultimately DO want a relationship. It just may not be with that particular person, and you certainly don't know that until you get to know them. When I was seeing A, I asked him that. I told him what I wanted. He said 'I'm looking for something substantial too'. It meant nothing because he didn't back it up with actions. I feel like it was like a nice idea for him, but he really didn't understand what that entailed. I did.

 

R disappeared after you discussed what you each wanted and he said blah blah to take you to bed, but because he made those promises that weren't true, that's why he disappeared. He figured he'd need to make a real effort and he doesn't want to.

I have to believe this is the truth. I really do. The only thing I don't understand is that 'he made promises that weren't true'. Such as?

Do you mean 'I want to get to know you more, I want to hear your music and when are you going to let me try your cooking? I'd like to come see your place next time.' Is that what you refer to as promises that weren't true? Did he just completely pull that out of his ass?

 

Also, read again what Weezy said, excellent advice. Go out of your comfort zone and give a chance to guys that are not as exciting but have character traits that are good predictors for lasting love.

Alright. Hard to put sexual attraction on the back burner, but since it doesn't NECESSARILY translate into relationship material (although sometimes you get lucky), it is better not to date people based on that as the initial draw.

[BluEyeL]

yeah, I meant whatever he said, how he intends to do x and y and z with you, what you listed. Pulled it out of his butt obviously.

 

Look, a man will never come out and say: "Venus, I am interested in sex and only sex. I want to call you whenever I feel like it and not call you if I don't feel like it. I prefer not to take you out on dates regularly. I want to see other women and if for some reason i don't want to see you anymore, I will do that with no notice." That would not get him laid. So they lie. Our job is to find the one who doesn't.

[venusishername]

yeah, I meant whatever he said, how he intends to do x and y and z with you, what you listed. Pulled it out of his butt obviously.

Look, a man will never come out and say: "Venus, I am interested in sex and only sex. I want to call you whenever I feel like it and not call you if I don't feel like it. I prefer not to take you out on dates regularly. I want to see other women and if for some reason i don't want to see you anymore, I will do that with no notice." That would not get him laid. So they lie. Our job is to find the one who doesn't.

 

Unbelievable. His persistence really did fool me. Here's what I was getting at earlier though: he (and the others) do like me, they do enjoy time with me, they think I'm great and sexy and hot and fun and whatever else they think. How is that not enough?

I have yet to delete his number but it's any day now that I will. I thought I'd give it until Friday. (Don't know why, just a personal choice).

I can't help but think he'll pop back up unexpectedly. Then again, that's a 50/50 chance with my track record. If he dropped off for over a week now, I doubt he would come back. I'd really like the satisfaction of telling him, "WTF, R?? Did you really pull all of that out of your ass just to get laid? I don't want to believe that since we did have some good times together."

Edited February 25, 2015 by venusishername

[Timshel]

Unbelievable. His persistence really did fool me. Here's what I was getting at earlier though: he (and the others) do like me, they do enjoy time with me, they think I'm great and sexy and hot and fun and whatever else they think. How is that not enough?

I have yet to delete his number but it's any day now that I will. I thought I'd give it until Friday. (Don't know why, just a personal choice).

I can't help but think he'll pop back up unexpectedly. Then again, that's a 50/50 chance with my track record. If he dropped off for over a week now, I doubt he would come back. I'd really like the satisfaction of telling him, "WTF, R?? Did you really pull all of that out of your ass just to get laid? I don't want to believe that since we did have some good times together."

 

If he does call Venus, what do you think his purpose will be?

If you ask him those questions, do you think he will answer with truth?

[venusishername]

If he does call Venus, what do you think his purpose will be?

If you ask him those questions, do you think he will answer with truth?

 

I assume these are rhetorical questions

But I'll answer because I'm trying to put this behind me.

 

If he calls, I think his purpose (as it's always been) will be to spend time with a woman he finds pretty and attractive and sexy, for good company and hopefully more great sex. I can't say I'd blame the guy either, because that would be appealing to me too.

 

No, I don't think he would answer with the full truth. If I had the chance to call him out on it, I think what he'd say is that he's been busy and wasn't sure if I was really interested in him because I often declined his invites and he didn't hear from me after Vday either. Which is and could be PARTLY true. I don't think that's a lie. But he certainly wouldn't tell me the whole truth which is this:

 

But the fact is if he really did want to get to know me, he wouldn't let it drop. If he was busy, (which I totally understand is possible for us adults with careers and studies to juggle), then he would plan in advance or at least keep in touch. I have to just assume that R (just like A) did really like me, they just didn't want to put in the effort.

[fitnessfan365]

I find it interesting that in your opening post you mention not having much experience with only two failed LTR's. However, based on various posts I've read, the amount of sexual partners seems to be increasing. You even had a FWB? This along with repeatedly saying that sex and good company should be enough, tells me that you think sex is the way to landing a guy long term. This is a naive way of thinking.

 

Even though all men have one brain below the belt, they have another in their heads. Just because a man gets along with a woman and enjoys sex with her, doesn't mean it guarantees long term compatibility. I'm a personal trainer, so I'm around beautiful women all the time. My last GF was an 11/10. Truly a knockout. The sex was hot, and we enjoyed each other. But ultimately our personalities were too different and we didn't have enough in common. She still wanted to stay together, but I ended things amicably by being honest with her.

 

Friends of mine still think I'm out of my mind for breaking up with her. But my point is that there's more to men than their sex drive. Maybe some of these guys didn't feel a click with your personality.