When it rains it pours

[sc0316]

Are you sure he didn't read this forum? ;-)

 

We are NOT, struggling to find $200 for a plane ticket. Come on!

I'm going to ignore these comments from here on out, guys. Coming up with $300 for a ticket was not a struggle. I simply didn't want to pay for it all by myself because I am also going out of town in October and am paying for that trip. I asked him if he would be willing to pay for half. He paid for his ticket to come to CA, paid for his ticket to Mexico, and paid for the majority of our expenses while he was here. It is not a struggle for either one of us to afford a couple hundred dollars, but it was the idea of splitting the cost of my plane ticket out there, considering my recent and upcoming expenses, that I asked if he would help. He could have paid for all of it, I just didn't ask. Considering while I'm there, he will be paying for most of the expenses anyway. Moving on from this point.

 

I haven't had a chance to read in full all the recent comments. But I will say, Blue Eye is right, it isn't about going out to dinner or going out on the town, because we both like to do that. It's about the big expenses, the day to day financial obligations, the not going out part. The bills, savings, retirement, rent, mortgage, car payment, electricity. That stuff. I'm not worried about not being able to afford going out to dinner or going to the movies or to a nice bar. That will happen, no doubt.

And the last thing I have time for is nickel and diming the expenses he has paid for on our visits together. That's absurd. I know he has paid for approximately 85% of our time spent together, so the contribution of money is a moot point to me, and frankly, not important. I have paid for token items, like coffee or a taxi here and there. And half of my plane ticket.

That is fine by me. I don't expect him to pay for all of my tickets, all of my expenses. I make my own money and can contribute what I can.

 

Also, on the note of him asking me to cook, I think this really got blown out of proportion here. He is offering me to live with him for no cost. I said I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, and he said, maybe it would be nice if I would take care of cooking then. This doesn't mean every day, or as a bargaining chip. I could say screw that (although I love to cook) and offer to pay for the water bill instead. Please remember that I work full time and don't feel right living for free. I am also never going to be a housewife either, so I plan to contribute to my housing costs no matter where I live.

 

I would like to read through the past page more thoroughly later on, but I feel that maybe our conversation last night is worth mentioning before I do. I also think that a lot has been derailed here as far as money. Yes, I do have concerns about his financial stability, that is true. I am not in a better or worse position than he is financially. Just to be clear.

 

He called me last night while I was writing my last post, and we had a really interesting conversation. It was almost as if he could read my doubts, and my hesitation. Not to say that he was being manipulative by trying to tell me what I want to hear. But he did say some things that really did alleviate my concerns, without me even having to mention it.

He said yesterday that he has been looking into jobs out here and things are looking very good. This is nothing new, he mentioned this early on and has always been open to it. He sent me one job in particular that was on his roster, and he just renewed all his information, dues, and has the materials to study for the licensing in my state, contacts, etc. He said he realized that I would have to give up a lot to move there, and I have a good job, a good place to live, and he doesn't want to ask me to sacrifice so much. He wants to add to my life and not take away from it. He said he knows it's coming up on a year and that I need to think about renewing my lease soon.

He wants us to live in the same city, but realizes that it wouldn't be fair for me to sacrifice so much to move to him. He mentioned something about asking me to live with him, and with a laugh, half-jokingly, he said he's not going to take no for an answer. He's not going to give up, guys. He never has. This is why it never worked out with any other guy here locally. No one has tried as hard as he has.

 

He says he knows that I want to have nice things and save, and have a house of my own, and so does he. But he said we can do that together, now that things are more than just these trips across the country for rendezvous, he wants to take things to the next level. The first step is living in the same city. And he's trying to make that happen, if not offering me to move to him, and if I say no, then he will do it. That's what he's saying now. He's not taking my no for an answer. Let's see what he does. I was thrilled to hear him say this and praised the idea of him finding work here. He said he would like to make sure he could find something as close as possible to where I live and that way he can spend more time at home with me.

 

He said he would make sure his house was taken care of too. And we left it as- let's talk about all this when we see each other in a few weeks. He mentioned marriage again, but I can tell that he wants to live in the same city first before committing to that. That's totally understandable.

He even said that he didn't want me to have to give up so much to move there, that I'm doing and thinking the right things by hesitating, he would tell his own daughter to do the same if she was in my position.

 

I'll try to write more later, but these were my thoughts this morning.

[sc0316]

Venus: Since you know that your bf has to struggle financially occasionally (e.g., having to borrow money to pay off traffic tickets, credit card got turned down at hotel), I was wondering why you haven't stepped up your contribution. For instance, instead of contributing 15%, have you considered contributing 35-40% for your combined dating expenses?

[No_Go]

I wondered about the same. Also money transfer comes with fees -$150 for half plane ticket with $20 fee doesn't makes sense unless absolutely essential (else he could have just contributed later wth paying e.g. for your dinmeals while there).

 

But that's nit-picky. More essential: where is he oing to live if he comes to CA? Could you provide an accommodation for him (e.g. will your roommate be ok with him staying temporarily with you)? Otherwise he'll bulk up expenses (paying double rent), which won't help for your common future plans as well...

 

Venus: Since you know that your bf has to struggle financially occasionally (e.g., having to borrow money to pay off traffic tickets, credit card got turned down at hotel), I was wondering why you haven't stepped up your contribution. For instance, instead of contributing 15%, have you considered contributing 35-40% for your combined dating expenses?

[introverted1]

We are NOT, struggling to find $200 for a plane ticket. Come on!

 

Sorry Venus - that was bad phrasing on my part. Although I confess to being confused in general about expenses, as I seem to recall a post of yours where he had to borrow $200 from someone to get his car released from impound (or something like that).

 

My only point is that, IIRC, you want children (or at least one child) and you will either need to be able to afford for one of you to stay home or daycare, which in my area runs about $1,000/month. And that's before all the other expenses that come along with a baby.

 

So yes, I think you are smart to look long and hard at the financial aspect of things. Money can easily be a limiting factor in a relationship.

[Kamille]

Grisho's questions made me curious about the timeline. So I went back in the thread and found many of the moments when finances were discussed.

 

Here's the picture I draw.

 

He paid for most of the trips but then can't pay parking tickets, which suggests he at times lives on maxed out credit cards and doesn't have any savings.

 

His income fluctuates but he finds himself struggling financially during slow season (winter). This means he should save during high season to cover slow season... If high season can't cover slow season, then he should figure out why his income doesn't cover his expenses. There's lots he can do: lower expenses, find ways to generate more income or, if it's his debt payments keeping him in the red, he should look into debt counselling if not bankruptcy.

 

I'm not sure if you answered the question about the mortgage. Why is he paying a mortgage for a house he doesn't own? Or did you mean he's paying rent on a house he stands to inherit (in who's name is the mortgage?).

 

Having skimmed the thread, it does sound like he treats you right. You two seem to both share the same notion of romance. You have really tough things to figure out. You wanting marriage is a big one. Him figuring out his finances is another.

[Grisho]

He paid for most of the trips but then can't pay parking tickets, which suggests he at times lives on maxed out credit cards and doesn't have any savings.

 

His income fluctuates but he finds himself struggling financially during slow season (winter). This means he should save during high season to cover slow season... If high season can't cover slow season, then he should figure out why his income doesn't cover his expenses. There's lots he can do: lower expenses, find ways to generate more income or, if it's his debt payments keeping him in the red, he should look into debt counselling if not bankruptcy.

 

Of course he can pay parking tickets! This narrative has spun out of control. He asked a friend to sub him money, which he later paid back. I presume he asked to be subbed money, because he didn't have enough cash on him (not that he didn't have the cash by other means), which is a very typical problem in this electronic age. Loads of my friends don't carry any cash.

 

The claims about his financial status are hyperbole. There's no evidence to support any accusations against him financially. Venus is in a panic about it, because she hasn't shared or received clear financial info with him. Venus' own financial position is not stellar, as she sometimes acknowledges. This man has paid a huge amount of their costs since they began dating, and has never fallen short.

 

Venus, can you please clearly explain the parking ticket situation, so we can put this to bed?

[No_Go]

She shared she's looking for a more traditional dynamics, i.e. man-provider while she stays home with a baby, not for the more modern arrangement style where man/woman can be providing interchangeably.. I think that's why all the discussions for his financial status, not that he's starving or broke.

 

Of course he can pay parking tickets! This narrative has spun out of control. He asked a friend to sub him money, which he later paid back. I presume he asked to be subbed money, because he didn't have enough cash on him (not that he didn't have the cash by other means), which is a very typical problem in this electronic age. Loads of my friends don't carry any cash.

 

The claims about his financial status are hyperbole. There's no evidence to support any accusations against him financially. Venus is in a panic about it, because she hasn't shared or received clear financial info with him. Venus' own financial position is not stellar, as she sometimes acknowledges. This man has paid a huge amount of their costs since they began dating, and has never fallen short.

 

Venus, can you please clearly explain the parking ticket situation, so we can put this to bed?

[Grisho]

She shared she's looking for a more traditional dynamics, i.e. man-provider while she stays home with a baby, not for the more modern arrangement style where man/woman can be providing interchangeably.. I think that's why all the discussions for his financial status, not that he's starving or broke.

 

All I am wishing for is that people discuss him fairly (including Venus). He has been called irresponsible and reckless here. We have no evidence of those slurs, which seem to be just borne out of panic, not reality. All we've evidence of is a man being extremely generous to Venus, and managing his day-to-day life just fine.

 

Of course, now is as good a time as any for both of them to share info about their financial status, but not based on him having done anything wrong/shown any reason for concern so far. If something for concern arises on either side, then they can deal with it at that moment and not before.

 

I don't see how it helps Venus when people indulge her panic and insult the man, rather than push her to take control of her panic by talking to him about giving (her own status) and getting (his status) info on their finances (then she can make judgements based on facts).

[clia]

Of course he can pay parking tickets! This narrative has spun out of control. He asked a friend to sub him money, which he later paid back. I presume he asked to be subbed money, because he didn't have enough cash on him (not that he didn't have the cash by other means), which is a very typical problem in this electronic age. Loads of my friends don't carry any cash.

 

The claims about his financial status are hyperbole. There's no evidence to support any accusations against him financially. Venus is in a panic about it, because she hasn't shared or received clear financial info with him. Venus' own financial position is not stellar, as she sometimes acknowledges. This man has paid a huge amount of their costs since they began dating, and has never fallen short.

 

Venus, can you please clearly explain the parking ticket situation, so we can put this to bed?

 

He told Venus he has bad credit. He told Venus his credit cards were maxed out. He told Venus he was "broke" and (she said) complains about money frequently. Despite this, she's seen him frivolously spend money. It's all in her posts above.

[Grisho]

He told Venus he has bad credit. He told Venus his credit cards were maxed out. He told Venus he was "broke" and (she said) complains about money frequently. Despite this, she's seen him frivolously spend money. It's all in her posts above.

 

She has also said his financial position is no worse that hers. Some people always complain about money. I know plenty of high earners, with loads of superfluous money, who complain about incidental costs. We know hw has covered almost all of their mutual costs, and runs his home with no help from Venus.

 

Venus, can you clarify what facts you both have shared about financial status? Have you explained to him how much debt, savings and earnings you have? Have you explained if you have credit cards, and your approach to using them? Have you explained any variances in your earnings throughout the year (times when not earnings, or times when earning a bonus)? Have you explained any assets you own, or any future financial planning you have done? Would you claim he has a clear, factual understanding of your financial situation? If your answer is no to any of these questions, why?

 

Secondly, have you asked him those questions? If yes, what were his answers? If no, why not?

[Kamille]

Of course he can pay parking tickets! This narrative has spun out of control. He asked a friend to sub him money, which he later paid back. I presume he asked to be subbed money, because he didn't have enough cash on him (not that he didn't have the cash by other means), which is a very typical problem in this electronic age. Loads of my friends don't carry any cash.

 

 

I want to be clear: I don't think he's a bad person or that she should immediately break up with him because of his financial habits. That's why I pointed out that lots can be done if ever they live together and find themselves in a de facto situation where his situations affects hers. Not saying she should go in there with the idea to change him, but the area of finance seems to be emotionally loaded for her and it needn't be. Everyone can learn to be better at finance. It's not an innate personality flaw.

 

I will say this though, perhaps we are all jumping to conclusion, Venus included. But unless you were actually there when her boyfriend got his car out of the lot, how do you know that the lot didn't accept anything but cash and that he immediately repaid the money?

Edited August 4, 2016 by Kamille

[Imajerk17]

I want to be clear: I don't think he's a bad person or that she should immediately break up with him because of his financial habits. That's why I pointed out that lots can be done if ever they live together and find themselves in a de facto situation where his situations affects hers. Not saying she should go in there with the idea to change him, but the area of finance seems to be emotionally loaded for her and it needn't be. Everyone can learn to be better at finance. It's not an innate personality flaw.

 

I will say this though, perhaps we are all jumping to conclusion, Venus included. But unless you were actually there when her boyfriend got his car out of the lot, how do you know that the lot didn't accept anything but cash (nowadays???) and that he immediately repaid the money?

 

I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking Grisho is actually venushishername's boyfriend. Or that s/he knows the OP in real life. How else would this poster know all this stuff?

 

There are a few threads on here where the other person comes on to give their take on what is happening in the relationship, but out of respect for the other posters who were giving advice, the person coming on is straightup about that.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Grisho]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking Grisho is actually venushishername's boyfriend. Or that s/he knows the OP in real life. How else would this poster know all this stuff?

 

There are a few threads on here where the other person comes on to give their take on what is happening in the relationship, but out of respect for the other posters who were giving advice, the person coming on is straightup about that.

 

Please don't speculate about me on this thread. There is enough false info and hyperbole on this thread already. You've seen the questions I have posed to Venus about financial discussion. Let's put this to bed once and for all when she answers. Then we'll all be very clear about the true financial picture of both of them. We need to encourage facts on this thread, not hyperbole and speculation about who posters are, which doesn't help discussion here. There has been a lot of vague info given. We can all use our time better, when we have clear info from Venus.

[venusishername]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking Grisho is actually venushishername's boyfriend. Or that s/he knows the OP in real life. How else would this poster know all this stuff?

 

There are a few threads on here where the other person comes on to give their take on what is happening in the relationship, but out of respect for the other posters who were giving advice, the person coming on is straightup about that.

 

Wow guys. My bf would never write as eloquently and with what I believe to maybe be a British? vocabulary like Grisho. Maybe there is a poster here who knows me. If that's the case, hey!

 

I need to take some time out to respond to Grisho but will have to be later.

Here's some points though I really, really want to clarify.

 

He borrowed cash from a friend to get a car out of tow on the spot and I actually saw him give him the money back when I was with him. What's the problem? Maybe the lot only took cash. Now we can put it to bed and I don't want to ever talk about it again.

 

He DID marry the last partner he was with. They did not have children.

He DID NOT marry the mother of the kids back when he was 20-21 years old. I asked why and he said they did have a relationship and tried to make it work but were not compatible. They are friendly today, and I have not met her but I like her. But yes, the fact that he has two kids out of wedlock is a red flag. But he was married before, and once again, his ex wife did not have children by him. So can we move on from that point too?

 

I think this has been derailed from the main issue. I would like to respond to Grisho's questions maybe later in the day.

[Grisho]

I would like to respond to Grisho's questions maybe later in the day.

 

Thanks very much, Venus. I think it will really help to get the thread back on topic, so that we can all learn and share your journey. Thanks, as always, for opening yourself up to helping us, and seeing if we can help you.

[lana-banana]

Speaking as someone whose car was towed by soulless rapacious monsters from the pits of hell in a city, the idea of a cash-only impound lot is utterly absurd. Those things exist solely to make money and it's not in their interest to put up a barrier to immediate payment. But that's neither here nor there. I do think it's also a bit ridiculous to say "I don't know and you don't know, so let's just consider it dead and buried". If you don't want us to bring it up again, fine, but we only bring it up because it's a huge red flag and you keep insisting that maybe it's just a lovely shade of pink or, if you squint enough, there's actually no flag at all.

 

I know for a fact Grisho is not a sockpuppet because only someone new to this thread would be unaware that I have spent the last half-year and then some of my life asking every single one of those questions to no avail. I'll recap.

 

Lovely Venus (hereafter V): Wow! This guy seems so amazing, but he seems to be a really irresponsible spender!

lana-banana (hereafter LB): You should talk to him about that.

V: But I don't know him that well yet.

LB: Okay, but this is a serious issue.

V: Yikes! His credit card was declined and he keeps spending money! I'm worried his financial situation is really bad.

LB: You should talk to him and see how bad it really is.

V: We're not that serious yet. It's none of my business. But I don't know if I'm compatible with someone who doesn't have a steady income!

LB: It would help to know how bad it really is. Have you talked about it?

V: It's none of my business. It bothers me that his car keeps getting towed and he half-jokingly calls himself broke. Maybe he really is broke?

LB: That sounds terrible. You should talk to him about it.

V: Stop being melodramatic. It's not that bad. You don't know what his situation is like!

LB: You don't know what it is either until you talk to him.

V: We're not that serious yet. Look, I just don't KNOW.

LB: When are you going to talk to him about it?

V: Whenever. It does worry me that he doesn't have any savings.

LB: Have you talked to him about his financial situation?

V: Look, none of us know how bad it is, so whatever!

LB: You should talk to him about it.

V: It's not time yet. Anyway, I love him, I just wish I felt more certain in his ability to provide for me in the future if I'm going to move down there. But I don't know what his financial situation looks like. What should I do?

LB: *jumps off bridge*

[introverted1]

Venus (and Grisho, lol),

 

With all due respect, if we are seeing a negative portrait of your bf and especially of his finances, it's because of what you've written here.

 

I didn't have time to do more than go back a few pages but his financial problems have been a recurring theme.

 

that one time he was in a crunch and either didn't have the cash or have the credit to pay hmmm... Couple hundred?

 

Not having $200 in cash on hand is one thing. Not being able to charge $200 in an emergency is something else.

 

Last night we had a long talk about the future plans for moving to the same city, all the options. He says in the past few months he hasn't had the financial stability that he wants and needs to have before he feels secure enough to make any big moves. Obviously this has concerned me, but it seems to be improving for him. I realize that in his line of work, there are going to be times that money is tight. He doesn't have the cash flow that a day in and day out 12 months a year Monday through Friday job like I have provides.

 

Ok. So I've mentioned here some concerns I've had about his behaviors, and maybe some of the financial worries. As it turns out, my concerns are justified. I'll just get right to the point. He told me he has ADHD and is not currently taking medication. He told me the other night that he was previously diagnosed and used to take medication for it, but is no longer.

This would explain so much of these recurring behavioral issues I've noticed are a pattern with him.

 

Last night I had a missed call from him saying how upset he was, that he had a boot put on his car, (this means it's locked and you can't move it). I asked him why, and he said he parked it illegally, he guessed, and now it's going to cost over $200 to get out. This is not the first time I have witnessed parking tickets with him. I was with him last time and he had a ticket on his car when we came back to it. I asked him why and he didn't really seem to care much. A couple months ago, he told me his car was towed and he had to ask the friend he was with to spot him some money at the towyard to get it out because he was short.

 

So on at least 2 occasions since you've known him, he's had enough unpaid parking tickets that his car has been towed or booted.

 

It really just boils down to being careless. It does happen to all of us. But I've noticed with him it is a pattern. And he knows he may not be parking legally, I guess, but he seems to think he can get away with it, or he doesn't pay attention, or something. Anyway, then he gets really flustered and upset that he's going to have to pay the fine. But he keeps being careless.

 

He is almost always complaining about money. I've either witnessed him complain he is "broke" which is relative and maybe an exaggeration, or he thinks he has plenty to spend and spends spends impulsively and on things that aren't necessary. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated him buying us a hotel room one night so we could get wild and crazy, or every meal out. I figured he was trying to make up for the time not being able to take me on dates. I am guilty of spending impulsively and extravagantly too, but then I don't complain about being tight or behind on money if I splurge. I make up for it. He APPEARS to have this constant internal struggle with trying to hold it all together. He seems to me as an outsider like he has things in decent order, he's not wanting for anything, but then he spends impulsively and is in debt. So he's not in order.

 

I was very upset to hear this. I thought- I can't be with someone who racks up parking tickets and spends hundreds to get his car out of tow on a recurring basis. I can't be with someone who has trouble getting a grip on normal adult day to day things that might come up. I can't be with someone who absentmindedly doesn't take the screws out of his pocket and damages the washing machine and has to spend money to fix it. I can't be with someone who seems to have great difficulty taking care of his own basic needs let alone mine and potentially a child.

 

What worries me most is what if I married him, had a child, and he had to spend hundreds of dollars getting his car out of tow for the second time in a couple months because he's careless or did something impulsive again. Or he broke the washing machine again because he forgot to take the screws out of his pocket. There's absentmindedness, and then there's a disorder that affects your life, like his is. And believe me, I've done stupid **** in my life, I've definitely had lapses in common sense. But for the most part, I have a good grip on it.

 

But his impulsive behavior, financial problems, lack of focus, hyperactivity, and frustration with "too many things all happening at once"... I am going to think twice about whether I can think about making any moves to progress this relationship. I may not be able to.

 

Maybe you hyped up these incidents because you were upset at the time, but you've clearly painted a picture of a guy who doesn't make much money and, more significantly, doesn't manage the money he makes. So you can't really be upset or surprised when people reading your thread take on-board what you've said when presenting advice to you. I think everyone here, myself included, has tried to be helpful to you.

[Grisho]

Speaking as someone whose car was towed by soulless rapacious monsters from the pits of hell in a city, the idea of a cash-only impound lot is utterly absurd. Those things exist solely to make money and it's not in their interest to put up a barrier to immediate payment.

 

Wrong, I'm afraid. The business model is entirely geared towards that idea, because the penalty then grows the longer the car is stored. The last thing they want is immediate payment, when they can be earning loads more from a car being stored by them for days!

 

I know for a fact Grisho is not a sockpuppet because only someone new to this thread would be unaware that I have spent the last half-year and then some of my life asking every single one of those questions to no avail.

 

Not sure that's fair of you, Lana. I haven't posted anywhere that you haven't posted such things before. I am simply trying to focus Venus on answering those questions, because, regardless of any effort you or anyone else made previously, the answers remain unclear. People are writing derogatory things about the man (NB I have mentioned a million times that Venus is guilty of this, too), rather than remind Venus that we're waiting on her clearing things up for us with factual info (rather than panic).

 

Venus (and Grisho, lol),

 

With all due respect, if we are seeing a negative portrait of your bf and especially of his finances, it's because of what you've written here.

 

I didn't have time to do more than go back a few pages but his financial problems have been a recurring theme.

 

Not having $200 in cash on hand is one thing. Not being able to charge $200 in an emergency is something else.

 

So on at least 2 occasions since you've known him, he's had enough unpaid parking tickets that his car has been towed or booted.

 

Maybe you hyped up these incidents because you were upset at the time, but you've clearly painted a picture of a guy who doesn't make much money and, more significantly, doesn't manage the money he makes. So you can't really be upset or surprised when people reading your thread take on-board what you've said when presenting advice to you. I think everyone here, myself included, has tried to be helpful to you.

 

I smiled because of the inclusion - thanks for bringing a smile to my face.

 

I think if you've read my posts, you'd know I have included Venus by name, when I have mentioned people need to stop degrading the man, and pursue factual info instead.

 

I can only agree that the problem of hyperbole started with Venus, but we all need to be responsible in re-focusing Venus back to dealing with facts, not fears, when she spirals in panic. Those are the sorts of areas where we can really do something to help her, I think.

 

It's also important to distinguish when she's simply telling us the events of the last period of time, musing, and spinning in panic.

 

Incidentally, I would never consider the occasional parking ticket as indicative of someone not managing their money. Everyone I know with a car gets an occasional fine for something. I think this man has shown he delivers where money is concerned so far.

[lana-banana]

Wrong, I'm afraid. The business model is entirely geared towards that idea, because the penalty then grows the longer the car is stored. The last thing they want is immediate payment, when they can be earning loads more from a car being stored by them for days!

 

Not sure where you live, but in my city, only city government lots can charge greater amounts over days. The industry is almost entirely managed by private operators. Your thesis also doesn't make sense because cities and even suburbs are crawling with ATMs; anyone who needs cash can get it in a heartbeat. Anyway, I think suggesting that the situation isn't that bad because maybe it was a cash-only lot is a major stretch.

 

Not sure that's fair of you, Lana. I haven't posted anywhere that you haven't posted such things before. I am simply trying to focus Venus on answering those questions, because, regardless of any effort you or anyone else made previously, the answers remain unclear. People are writing derogatory things about the man (NB I have mentioned a million times that Venus is guilty of this, too), rather than remind Venus that we're waiting on her clearing things up for us with factual info (rather than panic).

 

I know you didn't say that. But we've been asking her over and over and over (and over and over...) to clarify this information. Venus herself has a tendency to present a situation in a certain light, then immediately recast it from a completely opposite perspective. The truth is probably somewhere between those.

 

I think if you've read my posts, you'd know I have included Venus by name, when I have mentioned people need to stop degrading the man, and pursue factual info instead.

 

I don't think many if any people here are actually degrading him. They're just suggesting some of his habits may in fact be deal-breakers for the kind of future Venus wants.

 

I can only agree that the problem of hyperbole started with Venus, but we all need to be responsible in re-focusing Venus back to dealing with facts, not fears, when she spirals in panic. Those are the sorts of areas where we can really do something to help her, I think.

 

Venus is a grown woman. We are not "responsible" for her anything; she's demonstrated she's perfectly good at taking care of herself. But I agree we can offer her valuable perspective.

 

It's also important to distinguish when she's simply telling us the events of the last period of time, musing, and spinning in panic.

 

100% agreed.

 

Incidentally, I would never consider the occasional parking ticket as indicative of someone not managing their money. Everyone I know with a car gets an occasional fine for something. I think this man has shown he delivers where money is concerned so far.

 

I honestly think this might be a little worse. She's only been with him in person for, what, two months, and he's had his car towed and booted (which means unpaid tickets) more than once? That's kinda nuts. Even if it is just coincidence, it's indicative of the irresponsibility and serious absentmindedness that Venus has expressed concern about.

 

All anyone has ever asked is that Venus sit down with him and determine exactly how much debt he has, what his credit limit is, what his savings and retirement accounts look like, and all the basic stuff you talk about when you plan to get serious with your partner. Venus hasn't done this, and until she does, it's impossible to know if he's just a spendthrift or if he has serious and continuing financial problems. What little evidence I've seen inclines towards the latter. You may see it differently. But we're not trying to degrade anyone.

[introverted1]

Incidentally, I would never consider the occasional parking ticket as indicative of someone not managing their money.

 

 

Venus has dated this guy for less than a year and, in that time, he has accrued enough parking tickets that his car has been towed once and also booted once.

 

That strikes me as more than "occasional." For me, it's the repeated behavior - making recurring expensive mistakes - that is worrying. I agree completely with Lana that Venus needs to understand her bf's financial situation in a realistic way, neither clouded by fear nor hope.

Edited August 4, 2016 by introverted1

[Grisho]

Not sure where you live, but in my city, only city government lots can charge greater amounts over days. The industry is almost entirely managed by private operators. Your thesis also doesn't make sense because cities and even suburbs are crawling with ATMs; anyone who needs cash can get it in a heartbeat. Anyway, I think suggesting that the situation isn't that bad because maybe it was a cash-only lot is a major stretch.

 

Again, not fair from you. I have posted that I don't think it's a big deal at all, because I simply don't, regardless of it having been due to cash or not. I'm really used to friends asking for money for an hour or a day, whilst they pay something that can only be paid for with cash, and I always have cash. In any case, I just wouldn't care about such things as this, unless they happened more than occasionally. Same as parking tickets.

 

I don't think many if any people here are actually degrading him. They're just suggesting some of his habits may in fact be deal-breakers for the kind of future Venus wants.

 

Some people are doing that, and some are calling him irresponsible and reckless, which are unfounded accusations (again, I admit, Venus is also guilty of this). This man has paid for all of their dating expenses, aside from tokens from Venus. He seems to have money for all he needs. We have no reason, nor evidence, to call into question his financial situation. When Venus shares info about her own financial status with him, and gets info in return, we can form a new judgement, but he has been stellar so far.

 

Venus is a grown woman. We are not "responsible" for her anything; she's demonstrated she's perfectly good at taking care of herself. But I agree we can offer her valuable perspective.

 

I disagree a bit with this, simply because we should be always trying to help her, mindful that she is living this situation in real life. Posting non-chalantly on the internet is of no value, and could lead her to spin more in panic. If we are to post in an attempt to guide her, we need to not resort to demeaning the man based on hearsay, and we need to push Venus to stay focused on facts.

 

I honestly think this might be a little worse. She's only been with him in person for, what, two months, and he's had his car towed and booted (which means unpaid tickets) more than once? That's kinda nuts. Even if it is just coincidence, it's indicative of the irresponsibility and serious absentmindedness that Venus has expressed concern about.

 

Don't think we have any reason to jump to that conclusion. If it happens more than occasionally, there's reason to be a bit concerned, of course, but we don't know of anything more than occasionally, in my opinion.

 

All anyone has ever asked is that Venus sit down with him and determine exactly how much debt he has, what his credit limit is, what his savings and retirement accounts look like, and all the basic stuff you talk about when you plan to get serious with your partner. Venus hasn't done this, and until she does, it's impossible to know if he's just a spendthrift or if he has serious and continuing financial problems. What little evidence I've seen inclines towards the latter. You may see it differently. But we're not trying to degrade anyone.

 

Some posters aren't degrading her man, but some are. It's of no use to label him as [something negative], until we have reason to do that - it just encourages Venus to spin more. Again, in my eyes, he has been stellar so far. I'm impressed he has willingly covered so much of the expense in their relationship, and is always concerned with her being able to save her money (meaning he picks up the financial burden). Naturally, relationships move in phases, so, it would make sense for them to share more financial info now, but that isn't something people do in the early stages, in my opinion.

[sc0316]

I know of guys who are more than willing to spend much on their girlfriends (e.g., paying for all of the dates, buying gifts, paying for vacations), even though they are almost broke or are in serious debts themselves, or have to borrow frequently from others. From the girlfriends' perspectives, these guys are super generous for sure. But it doesn't mean the guys are good with managing their money.

 

I also wanted to point out that, more often than not, their girlfriends tend to be high maintenance. These guys may be concerned that, if they stop spending so much, the girlfriends will leave.

[Grisho]

I know of guys who are more than willing to spend much on their girlfriends (e.g., paying for all of the dates, buying gifts, paying for vacations), even though they are almost broke or are in serious debts themselves, or have to borrow frequently from others. From the girlfriends' perspectives, these guys are super generous for sure. But it doesn't mean the guys are good with managing their money.

 

Agree, but please also acknowledge that it doesn't mean they are poor with financial control, where there's no evidence of that either.

 

It's incidental in the early months of dating to judge financial status, in my eyes, because there's not yet enough trust or common ground from which to need to discuss one's own financial status and that of the partner (assuming nothing dramatic is clear like excessive wealth or debt). It's a natural conversation for any point after 6 or so months, I reckon.

[venusishername]

Lana, you are right, I just need to have a sit down show me the numbers conversation at this point. I have 'some' idea, as the months have gone on now... but not the full picture. These are things that take time to learn. Anyway, yes, it is at that point that I get the numbers. I'm learning.

 

By the way, not one person has mentioned anything about my post about what he said the other night about finding work here and what he said. I kind of got lost in all the recent posts, did I forget to tell you?? I thought it really changes the direction things are looking. I'm kind of surprised that was glossed over going back and forth about his towed car which happened more than six months ago.

 

And let's just say, without having all the numbers, that he is not financially stable, not good with money, and can't offer me the stability that I would like. That is the question. The question is not how much money he has in his pension, or how much he owes. The question is- let's just go ahead and assume there are some problems. What do I do from there?

I'm aware there are some red flags, which is why I have written about them. I do agree with Grisho, that I tend to spin into a panic. I already know in my heart that I have cause for concerns regarding his financial stability.

Now what?

Talk to him and get numbers? Then what? What if it really is bad? Do I leave? I've already told him I have concerns when this stuff has come up.

Do I leave him because of these concerns.. granted that I don't have full and complete facts to support? That's the crux of all of this.

[venusishername]

She shared she's looking for a more traditional dynamics, i.e. man-provider while she stays home with a baby, not for the more modern arrangement style where man/woman can be providing interchangeably.. I think that's why all the discussions for his financial status, not that he's starving or broke.

 

I'm sorry, No Go, you are mistaken here. I do not want to be a housewife and/or a stay at home mom. I DO want a partner who is responsible and who I can trust to lean on financially in the event I have his child. I have no desire to stay and home and not make my own money. I could never give up that independence.