When it rains it pours

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Do ya, or don't ya?

 

Make that decision first.

 

The rest of the stuff you're planning together should be the fun part. Of course you're going to have differences in opinion.

 

Just revert back to the decision you made prior. Yes, or no?

 

If it's not fun, and it's not a business/political marriage, then what are you doing?

[MidwestUSA]

Venus, I'd like to ask a question.

 

I think I've seen you mention contractor and/or construction, but what specifically is your BF's job?

 

Apologies if it's not construction, it's the first thing I think of when I see contractor. I'm married to a construction guy.

[venusishername]

Isn't this "vacation" in large part to see you? I don't understand -- don't you want him to come? Or is it that he's also paying for his daughter that bothers you? Well, get used to it if you marry him.

I think I am a part of why he is coming here, but a motivation. The vacation is to see his family and bring his kids to see the family, and yes I will be there. I just found out that the entire time he will be here I will be sleeping at his cousin’s house with a house full of people. It’s not a romantic trip, it’s a family trip. But I will be at his family, he will be at mine, no time alone but well, it is what it is. If we were married that’s how it would be during the holidays anyway. To be honest I’m getting stressed thinking about it… For the first time in my entire life… this year I am just not in the holiday spirit. He told me that we are invited on xmas eve to a cousin’s cousin’s house (about 2.5 hours from where I live). Then that night we’ll be sleeping in guest room. Then next day is my family, then his family again, then he leaves the day after Christmas. I’ll see him for 3 days and no time alone. I’m glad he’s coming and I’m very glad he has both kids here. It was a feat to convince one of them to get out here so I know he’s thrilled. It will be nice, but hectic and a short visit, and full of family, not much time for romance or discussions and planning. Well, it is what it is…

This seems really unfair. You all just decided within the past month or so that he will move to CA. He's in the middle of a project and won't be able to move for at least 3-4 months. You know that. So, what exactly are you expecting him to do right now? It's way too soon for him to find a place to live or find a job since he doesn't know his move date yet. It's unfortunate that you are now tired of the long distance, but it seems you are setting him up for failure by expecting things that simply aren't feasible right now.

I understand what you mean. I just meant to piggy back on what Lana was saying… that it is frustrating that it has been one year plus and between the two of us it has been all talk and no concrete action.

Venus, what??? I'm starting to think since your decision to not move you are actually taking steps towards discouraging your guy every way possible so that you could actually break up. Like on some level you want to sabotage this....

I’m not trying to discourage him. I’m just frustrated that nothing has progressed. If he wants to move here, I hope it won’t take another year because he has been talking about moving to CA since last year during the holidays. I remember last year, I can’t remember when but it was early in our relationship. I was sad that he was leaving CA after a visit. He said it would take “6 months to a year” before he was able to move to CA. Because he wanted to have saved enough money to make a move. To put all the ducks in a row. Now one year later, it’s the same story. I’m beginning to wonder how long this could possibly drag out. How long am I willing to wait. I realize how challenging it is to move across the country. He, like me, has a lot of roots there. So it’s not easy. I just wonder if he’s going to put his money where his mouth is, or we are going to find ourselves long distance “6 months to a year” from now too. It makes me so sad. It’s not his fault.

No Go said it seems as if both of us have been not in a rush to close the distance because we are both doing well and in good situations where we live. And there is no real big motivation to move, it’s just nice to talk about and of course we want to date in the same city. I wonder, is he really motivated to move here? Some people have said that they just can’t see him doing it. I’m not sure I can really see it either. I think it’s just a pipe dream and I hate to be so cynical… but he said this last year too. Do you understand my position?

How could you possibly accuse him of being too complacent when it's taken you how many pages and time to even make a decision let alone mobilize yourself to meet this man half way?

This thread started about 2? years before I met him. So the length of the thread is not all about him, I think he came in far in…..

Venus, I'd like to ask a question.

I think I've seen you mention contractor and/or construction, but what specifically is your BF's job?

Apologies if it's not construction, it's the first thing I think of when I see contractor. I'm married to a construction guy.

I mean, I think some people would consider it construction I guess. I don’t want to give out complete details although if I have already blown anonymity here, well, so be it.

 

He is an independent contractor and also licensed in the state to work under the union as well as conduct his own business doing the same kind of work on residences and commercial, etc.

[lana-banana]

I was pretty sure he was going to propose what with the recent conversations and the approaching holidays---this is by far the most common time of year to propose---but with so much family around I'm no longer convinced. It doesn't sound like there will be any time!

 

His earlier plans to move to you were derailed when it looked like you were coming out there, at least for a time. Let's say his contract ends in April. Is he going to be ready to move then? Or will he need six months to a year after April before he's ready?

[venusishername]

I was pretty sure he was going to propose what with the recent conversations and the approaching holidays---this is by far the most common time of year to propose---but with so much family around I'm no longer convinced. It doesn't sound like there will be any time!

 

His earlier plans to move to you were derailed when it looked like you were coming out there, at least for a time. Let's say his contract ends in April. Is he going to be ready to move then? Or will he need six months to a year after April before he's ready?

 

I don't know, Lana. I just don't know.

Edited December 8, 2016 by venusishername

[lana-banana]

I don't know, Lana. I just don't know.

 

Okay, but...you can ask, right? I'm not saying he needs to have a precise timeline complete with action items, but surely you guys can figure out how much he needs to have saved or what you can do to assist. I just don't think you should have to feel totally helpless about this. You should be working together to make it happen regardless of who's going where.

[clia]

I don't know, Lana. I just don't know.

 

I don't understand why you are so in the dark about everything. Don't the two of you talk about this stuff? Don't you ask questions? Aren't you two making plans for the future together? Your posts really make it seem like you are two islands doing your own thing, and maybe, if you're lucky, at some point you'll meet in the middle. It just seems really strange.

[venusishername]

Okay, but...you can ask, right? I'm not saying he needs to have a precise timeline complete with action items, but surely you guys can figure out how much he needs to have saved or what you can do to assist. I just don't think you should have to feel totally helpless about this. You should be working together to make it happen regardless of who's going where.

Yes, I have asked. But I DO think there needs to be a precise timeline with action items. His contract ends in “4-5 months”. It could end sooner, it could be extended. He could not have saved up enough money. Or he thinks he needs more, or he could stall, like I did. Ya know?

I don't understand why you are so in the dark about everything. Don't the two of you talk about this stuff? Don't you ask questions? Aren't you two making plans for the future together? Your posts really make it seem like you are two islands doing your own thing, and maybe, if you're lucky, at some point you'll meet in the middle. It just seems really strange.

I’ll be honest, Clia, just simply because we are long distance sometimes it really does feel that way, like we are islands. I have to be totally honest. I didn’t used to think a LDR was a bad thing but now I’m over it. I think that’s why I get so frustrated. I feel so removed sometimes.

Yes, I think we are making plans. He told me he has saved some already and his goal of x dollars to move. All the information that I have is that his contract ends in roughly 4-5 months, maybe later, who knows.. and he needs maybe around x to make a move.

Unfortunately (and it’s not his fault), I am cynical. I will believe it when I see it. It seems that this last time he became convinced that he wants to come to CA, so I am waiting for that to materialize. I know that this upcoming visit is to be with his kids and family, and he is thrilled his daughter finally agreed to come. I think he sees now that CA has a lot more to offer him and his kids too. And he knows how much I love it here.

We shall see.

[NuevoYorko]

Unfortunately (and it’s not his fault), I am cynical. I will believe it when I see it. It seems that this last time he became convinced that he wants to come to CA, so I am waiting for that to materialize.

Well ... that's probably how he was feeling when you had planned to go to LA in January, but proceeded to renew your lease, etc., without actually making a solid alternative plan TOGETHER.

 

Since he just decided he's moving to California in the last couple of weeks, I think it's unrealistic for him to have a solid timeline. He is in the midst of a contract and I'm sure he will need to have some serious discussions with his father about the house, and with at least the teenaged daughter; in the short amount of time since this decision was made, I'm doubtful that these things have happened.

 

Frankly, from EVERYTHING I've read, I am not seeing how this man can possibly fit in with your SoCA lifestyle, or compliment your own self image in the way you need. The overweening picture I get is that you have a fairytale fantasy and it's his job to present that to you in the correct way; otherwise the whole thing is toast. This never happens, IRL.

 

It would be good if you could sort out what you really want and communicate that to him before any big moves are made by anyone.

[lana-banana]

Venus, there will come a time for action items and checklists, but as others have said, he is just figuring this out now. It will probably be a while before the details are nailed down. The best part is you don't really need any more details right now. You have an estimate X of how much it will cost to move. So what are you doing to make it happen? How much can you put away each month? What about him? Even if you only have an estimate you can still start saving now. That's something you can and should be doing together.

 

Construction is an incredibly important field. That being said, I think you can forget being on one salary if you're raising children, particularly in an area with as many construction workers and contractors as southern California. MidwestUSA can likely provide more insight on this.

 

One of the reasons this may be frustrating for you---I can confirm it's frustrating for me as a reader and someone who likes you---is that this relationship doesn't seem to have progressed in a linear or even organic way. You talk constantly but apparently don't discuss the future in any concrete fashion. You spend most of your in-person time with each other's families but live your lives almost entirely independent of one another. You are seriously considering engagement and children while not feeling comfortable enough to talk about money. I don't know how to give advice when the situation is so confusing. It's like being asked to critique a movie when the DVD is shuffling scenes. I can't tell if I'm watching it out of order or if major scenes that ought to be there just didn't happen.

 

Why aren't you excited for the holidays, especially when you say you usually love them? I understand being sad about spending NYE alone but you will get a busy whirlwind with both your families, and that seems pretty great in a hectic way. I think it's wonderful that you can be with each other's families rather than have to trade on and off for Thanksgiving and Christmas. But I know it can be stressful too...I have an amazing eggnog recipe if you need it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by lana-banana

[venusishername]

One of the reasons this may be frustrating for you---I can confirm it's frustrating for me as a reader and someone who likes you---is that this relationship doesn't seem to have progressed in a linear or even organic way. You talk constantly but apparently don't discuss the future in any concrete fashion. You spend most of your in-person time with each other's families but live your lives almost entirely independent of one another. You are seriously considering engagement and children while not feeling comfortable enough to talk about money. I don't know how to give advice when the situation is so confusing. It's like being asked to critique a movie when the DVD is shuffling scenes. I can't tell if I'm watching it out of order or if major scenes that ought to be there just didn't happen.

Lana, I could not agree with you more. I also agree with you that it would be awful if he gave me a “promise” ring with no proposal like you mentioned a couple posts back. I could see that happening. You are right, I can see that now.

It’s not progressing in a linear way. It hasn’t progressed for some time. I’ve been unhappy and torn for months and it all came to a head on Sunday when I went to a very close friend’s wedding.

I realize that my relationship isn’t what I want it to be. It’s not satisfying me anymore and I want to put an end to the way things are.

Why aren't you excited for the holidays, especially when you say you usually love them? I understand being sad about spending NYE alone but you will get a busy whirlwind with both your families, and that seems pretty great in a hectic way. I think it's wonderful that you can be with each other's families rather than have to trade on and off for Thanksgiving and Christmas. But I know it can be stressful too...I have an amazing eggnog recipe if you need it.

I’ll take your eggnog recipe, please.

Where do I begin?

I finally had enough. I went to my friend’s wedding on Sunday. I picked up another one of our single girlfriends to take to the reception and we said we were each others’ ‘date’. Even though my bf has been invited to this wedding for months, we both knew he wouldn’t be able to make it. So here I was again, single but in a relationship. I had to RSVP to my work holiday party for one, even though I could have a plus one. I am alone in this relationship. I feel like I’m single but I have a boyfriend. It sucks. We are living independent lives and see each other for days at a time for what is often a whirlwind of family vacation. I saw my friend get married and I realized that is how it is supposed to be.

 

I was approached by a friend of the groom and he was very interested. He asked me out, and I told him I would be interested, but I can’t. It made me realize that the fact that I would even be interested in going out with another man is a really BIG indication that I am not happy or satisfied in my current relationship. The events of the wedding and that night after talking with that other guy… I think it sealed the deal.

It’s been heavy on my mind for some time. And I’ve been fighting and arguing with my bf a lot lately. He knows I’ve been unhappy. Clearly it’s hard for me to hide.

 

And I think once he told me that he’s spending all kinds of money to make this extravagant trip to CA in a couple weeks for his kids… and that we’d be spending two nights together with his family… all of the family… and the wedding, and that guy… I was finally fed up.

I have been noticing lately that little things have really been getting on my nerves lately, (regarding the relationship), we have been arguing a lot, I haven’t felt romantic or interested in sex (well in our case, over the phone), and our schedules aren’t always aligned… I’ve been busy, vice versa… and well, like at the wedding I have been feeling like a single person when I actually have a boyfriend. Being single at the wedding made me really see it. And when that guy asked me out… and I thought it sounded pretty good to actually go out on a date.. I knew I had enough.

My bf has been aware that I’ve been unhappy. He mentioned we haven’t had “sex” lately. I haven’t felt interested. I told him yesterday that I don’t want to date unless we live in the same city, or hell, even state.

I have a lot more to write about the conversation but I put my foot down and told him I was tired of nothing changing, all the talk and no action, and that it wasn’t good enough for me and that I needed to take a break from the relationship. I asked him about when his contract was ending and if he had a solid date. He said, “six months’, and I realized that he’s been saying “six months to a year” for a LONG time now. It’s always been something. Clearly he isn’t totally convinced he wants to make the big move to CA… because I see that he’s spending money on a vacation for his kids to be in CA… which is great… but if he were actually serious about moving here… he would hold off on “vacations” *he was just here last month- and either be more frugal and conservative about it or offer to stay in LA but help me with my plane fare if wanting to be with me. It is clear to me that the “vacations” are more important to him than actually making a normal, real, every day face to face relationship with me.

If it were me, and I intended to move across the country, I would be holing my money away, budgeting, saving, and holding off on fun vacations. I GET it that he wants to have a great time with his kids and family. That is so wonderful. But it’s doing NOTHING to progress our relationship. I’ve had it.

As you all know, I seriously considered moving to Louisiana. I struggled with the decision so much, for months. Until this last visit a month ago, he told me he wanted to move to CA instead. I was so relieved. I realize now my gut feeling was right. If I felt such relief, I knew it wasn’t right. I know that a relationship means compromise. But I don’t feel right about moving there. I don’t think it would be worth it. I just can’t help how I feel. I mean, it’s my intuition.

 

I would like to write more but I’m still processing. We are still talking and we are still planning on seeing each other at least for some time over the holiday. I’m not sure where things are or how I feel yet… but feeling strong and pretty good about the decision I’ve come to.

 

Even though I worry I’ll be single for the rest of my life… almost 33 now and keep breaking up with all my long term boyfriends…. I think I had to say what I had to say. I needed to get to this point because I couldn’t continue with him any longer the way things have been.

[LargoLagg]

Sounds like there's only one step left between you and reaching out to the groom and getting that guy's number to tell him you've reconsidered.

[venusishername]

Sounds like there's only one step left between you and reaching out to the groom and getting that guy's number to tell him you've reconsidered.

 

I'm not interested in dating this particular guy. It was just a wake up call that I have the opportunity to date other men who are AVAILABLE and interested who also live in the same city. I'm not looking to date other men. But this guy made me realize I want a real every day relationship and hell, I want to go out on a real date too.

[LargoLagg]

Maybe, after being in a relationship that is slowly oozing downhill, it is easy to confuse going out on a date with somebody new and dating for a new relationship. I would counter that going out with somebody you're not particularly interested in is EXACTLY what you should do. It will give you a chance to clear your head a little, and to remember what it's like to go out with someone you don't know.... kind of like a scrimmage before the big game.

 

Plus, it will get the glue off your shoes. You seem to be the type that pulls the bandaid off hair by hair, given that you've made a "decision".

 

Whatever you do, good luck with it.

[No_Go]

Woah, you broke up with him / took a break??

 

I'll admit it was a ballsy decision, but I think if that's really final you need to stick to your guns. Otherwise you'd drag it off for extra months (years) and may end up with a 'promise' ring that will hold you back even further.

 

You're right about the undefined plans - I think both of you had enough reservations about this relationship, thus none of you made a real move towards closing the distance... Maybe for the good (I can write a novel how difficult is to disintegrate from my ex-bf after we enmeshed lives too much)...

[lana-banana]

Oh, Venus! You're first and foremost on my mind. I will write more soon, but in the meantime, I also know you and know you may go back and forth several times before coming to a decision (and it may not be the one you've made right now). So above all else just remember that you said and meant these things:

 

I realize that my relationship isn’t what I want it to be. It’s not satisfying me anymore and I want to put an end to the way things are.

 

I am alone in this relationship. I feel like I’m single but I have a boyfriend. It sucks.

 

I knew I had enough.

 

I was finally fed up.

 

I have been feeling like a single person when I actually have a boyfriend.

 

He said, “six months’, and I realized that he’s been saying “six months to a year” for a LONG time now. It’s always been something.

 

It is clear to me that the “vacations” are more important to him than actually making a normal, real, every day face to face relationship with me.

 

We're all pulling for you. To be honest I'm impressed at how you've identified your needs, recognized they weren't being met, and asserted yourself about it. The Venus of 60 pages ago wasn't so strong and self-confident.

[venusishername]

Lana, I seriously have been checking LS every hour to see what else you have to say.

 

This is truly ripping me apart. My bf is not taking it well. To make matters worse, he says I’m being demanding, to ease up off him, stop rushing him and that he’s tired of seeing me unhappy. This is not going well at all. Of course I understand he would be upset about what I told him. So am I. We’ve been talking and communicating as normal. But I think that after this next visit… it will be the final straw, one way or the other. I think it would be only fair to see how we feel and interact now in person, just a week and a half away.

 

I have to admit, I am just not looking forward to a big party with all his family and then my family, when we BOTH are unhappy in the relationship and this has just happened. We love each other, but it’s become very clear that things have shifted. I’ve changed, he’s said so. I don’t know when this happened but I think it was around the time I got my new car, renewed my lease, and I noticed that I started checking out other men. I think it must have been a month or so ago. I stopped feeling the same butterflies. Maybe I started falling out of love, a little. Maybe enough.

 

What hurts me is that his attitude about what I said is that I am pressuring him and being demanding. He seems fed up and unhappy now too. He said we haven’t even been having “sex” anymore lately. I say that is mainly because he’s been working late at nights… but I think the truth is, I haven’t really wanted to as much. I dunno guys. After our conversation on Monday…. He’s acting fed up himself. He doesn’t say anything about doing whatever it takes to make this work.. He’s acting like I’m giving up and I don’t love him anymore. And that’s really not what I’m saying at all but I think either he’s hurt and this is his defense mechanism or the truth is really coming out…

He seems to be even more unsure than ever now, about me. It’s like it took me saying what I did for him to admit his own reservations and concerns…

I asked him what it is that he wants and he says of course he wants a day to day relationship, face to face, like I do. But only if it’s a “good relationship” (Implying that ours isn’t). Same story for when I have previously asked him about whether he wants more kids, or kid or marriage for that matter. He says of course, “if” we had more money, “if” we get along, “if” its with the right person. Compare that to if you ask me those questions, it is a very loud and clear, YES with no conditions. It is implied that I want marriage and a family WITH the right person, of course.

 

I think there’s too many “ifs”. He’s not willing or ready to commit. I think that’s what it truly boils down to. When he thinks I’m being too demanding (seriously my reaction when he said that was internally, WTF!!?)

I need someone fully AVAILABLE. He’s not fully available, if he’s across the country and has reservations about me to top it off.

It is truly heartbreaking. I think the best mindset I can have right now is to go forward with our planned visit for these holidays. I don’t have plans for NYE. I will probably be with friends.

 

I just can’t bear the thought of spending one more holiday, birthday, party, work event, etc. alone. I have become resentful of it. It’s been too long. If I feel like I’m single, I may as well be single and available to other men. Am I right?

 

It’s not his fault, he’s across the country and we chose to have a LDR, knowing we wouldn’t be together to share these things. But at one year, we should be 100% sure to move things forward, or if we are not, it’s an indication that there is a reason why we hesitate and shouldn’t do it. I don’t see either one of us moving forward with full speed conviction that we want to be together in the same city and have a real, solid, committed relationship with each other. If that were the case, the following things would have or should be happening already: 1. I would have already moved there. 2. He would propose. 3. He would have moved here. 4. We would be consistently working together to make a concrete plan to come to the same city. None of those things have happened. And I don’t see that it will change at this point either.

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I hope I’m not being a commitment phobe and “backing out” or being “demanding” and “pressuring” him… I hope I’m not closing the door on a great opportunity to have the things I want, if only I was a little more patient… just another “SIX MONTHS”. I need some reassurance that I am not asking too much, and that I am not blowing a good situation because I am too impatient. Help, LS.

[No_Go]

You're not blowing anything: you know exactly what it is - you said it yourself : '. It’s like it took me saying what I did for him to admit his own reservations and concerns… '

 

As you said, if you both didn't have reservations, you'd been moving forward to closing the distance together. Since you're not - you're basically both self-sabotaging the RL. I think it just naturally ran its course (and honestly, I think if it was short-distance it would have been over earlier, your lifestyles seems pretty incompatible...)

 

I think it is not a great idea to spend holidays with each other's families, considering the current status... Holidays should bring joy, not frustration. Maybe see each other one more time AFTER the holidays. If you can afford it - on neutral territory. The CA/LA visit cycle IMO has ran its course.

[NuevoYorko]

Why is he still coming for Christmas under the circumstances? Stop the bleeding already.

 

I feel your pain and I'm sorry you are hurting, breaking up is traumatic, especially when we feel we're in love. Realistically, though: Your ex BF has always been completely clear and honest with you that he is NOT going to agree with your inflexible demands unless / until he knows that you two will be compatible. You've told us this more than one time over dozens of pages.

 

Why wouldn't you listen to and believe him? That is very bad partnership behavior right there, Venus. You have always been determined to bend him to your will on all the important points. I don't think he's been doing that with you; he's been more about "let's see." I completely understand that this was not okay with you. It's not wrong to be true to yourself. Where you've lost me, though, is that you refused to respect his position. You certainly should not have relaxed your demands if you didn't think it would be good for you - but the fact that you would not hear HIS truths about this is really ... bad partnership behavior.

 

It's not wise to blame the fact that you're alone on holidays and weddings on the relationship with this man; it even sounds like you're blaming it on HIM. You chose this. Own your part of it and move on. Being alone at holidays and weddings will not instantly change because you have ended this relationship you know. You also might be wise to start considering the possibility of NOT finding a man who shares, or will acquiesce to your requirements within your strict timeline. Men don't have the same biological clock thingy as women do, generally.

 

It totally sucks to be going through a breakup close to Christmas time. I hope that you put a stop to the visit so you can spend the holidays with your family and friends.

[introverted1]

Hey Venus, I am sorry you are going through this.

 

It's hard to be an armchair quarterback in anyone else's relationship but I, along with a few other posters, have felt for quite a while that your bf is not interested in changing his life. Unlike you, he has already "been there, done that" when it comes to the milestones you prioritize, namely marriage and kids. This is not to say he wouldn't be open to doing them again (marriage more than kids, and I am aware that "open to" is his wording of choice), but I don't think they are anywhere near as urgent to him as they are to you.

 

My take hasn't changed much from what I wrote a few pages back: do you think it's realistic that he would give up established business connections and an inexpensive place to live in favor of starting over in CA? Even with family there, it's a huge step for him. It doesn't seem realistic to me.

 

In any case, he is now expressing doubts. Possibly he's had them all along (and that's why he put the brakes on you moving to LA) or possibly they've only now surfaced since it's "**** or get off the pot" time. He realises that he needs to act and he's not ready.

 

As for the (phone) sex: Understand that when you pull back on the sex, it is a far bigger deal for him than for you. Women have sex once they feel close; men have sex as a way to feel close. So by withholding sex (even if that's not what you are intending), you are widening the distance and feeding his doubts.

 

I think your assessment of the bottom line is correct: You are ready now; he may be ready at some point in the future.

[clia]

This is truly ripping me apart. My bf is not taking it well. To make matters worse, he says I’m being demanding, to ease up off him, stop rushing him and that he’s tired of seeing me unhappy. This is not going well at all. Of course I understand he would be upset about what I told him. So am I.

 

You do seem demanding, though. Ever since he decided to move to CA (what, a month ago?), you have gone into overdrive and seem to want it right now. You decided you are done with long distance and he needs to get to CA ASAP. You remind me of a child stomping her feet and throwing a temper tantrum, to be honest. I just don't see how that's fair to him at all. You yourself went back and forth about moving to LA, spinning about what a big sacrifice it was, what a big move it was. Well, guess what? It's a big move for him, too, and it seems like you don't appreciate that at all. You just want what you want with no regard for his feelings. Maybe I'm wrong -- but that's really the way it comes across.

 

It's fine to not want to be in a LDR anymore, but it isn't fair at all to expect him to drop everything and move to you right now. And that goes doubly when you are constantly arguing and not wanting to have sex with him. Why on Earth would he want to move closer to that?

 

All of that said, I think you are making the right decision and that this has been a long time coming. You've complained about him and your incompatibilities with him since day one.

 

I have to admit, I am just not looking forward to a big party with all his family and then my family, when we BOTH are unhappy in the relationship and this has just happened.

 

If you are breaking up with him, I don't see why you would bring him around your family or you would go 2 1/2 hours away to his family. That seems ridiculous. Get together with him alone if you want to see him and get final closure.

 

He seems to be even more unsure than ever now, about me. It’s like it took me saying what I did for him to admit his own reservations and concerns…

 

If you are arguing a lot, then yeah, I can see this. I would probably have reservations about someone who was arguing with me a lot, too.

[lana-banana]

I meant to reply to this as soon as I got out of work but was suddenly rushed by contractors with millions of new critical expenses. Personal tip: don't ever buy a house. Don't ever get near a house. In fact, the next time someone says the word "house", set them on fire just to be safe.

 

Yes, you were demanding. Consider it from his perspective. He decided he would be the one to move to you. He warned you it would take several months, which didn't bother you at the time. Before he had a chance to even get his affairs in order you said he had to be there right now and called it quits. He must feel disrespected. He probably feels like you think he isn't good enough. I would be kind of fed up, too.

 

But I'm also inclined to be more sympathetic than some of the other posters here (and the record will show I'm not one to be easy on you!). I don't think you just changed your mind at the drop of a hat and decided you couldn't take it anymore. I think the wedding over the weekend just solidified what you've known for a long time: this relationship doesn't meet your needs. You aren't happy. This isn't what you want.

 

Do you remember approximately ten thousand pages ago when you said you were both so stubborn and how you were constantly trying to persuade each other to take the next step? How it was like playing chicken, waiting to see who blinked? Do you remember how people pointed out that wasn't really healthy? Now the moment's arrived, neither of you blinked, and you crashed and burned. If you can't be moved to bend for each other when the going gets tough then you don't have a relationship, you have a partnership of convenience.

 

Don't meet up with him. You know how impulsive he can be. What if he whips out a ring? What would you do? You're both so passionate that it's unlikely a meeting would yield any rational, productive closure. If you're ready to end it, then end it. But don't make this more painful than it needs to be.

[Sometymeswhy]

Oh Venus,

I wish you would save the big discussions for when you two are face to face. That said it seems like he is limiting your time together while he is in Cali. Wondering why he needs to spend 24/7 with his cousins/older kids and not the bulk of his time with you, his potential wife. (He brought up the ring and bridesmaid stuff). It doesn't make sense. Seems you ought to be his number one priority at this stage. Your time alone is critical right now.

 

He is stalling....first by putting the breaks on you moving there when the wheels were in motion and secondly by telling you that you're being demanding when you try to pin him down on his going west.

 

He needs time. Time to raise cash? Hmmm.

 

He would like to stall some more knowing it makes you unhappy? I would see how things go when you see him and if he's not willing to have a hard discussion without accusing you of pressuring him or if he throws those "ifs" back in your face by all means move on, move ahead. Never mind the sunk costs. You gave it your best. I still maintain that you two have had enough time to know. He may actually like it the way it is right now and is satisfied with phone sex when he gets it, while you require a living, breathing partner for intimacy. No crime in that.

 

Keep your cool throughout the holidays and try to let him lead the discussion. By now he knows where you stand. Listen carefully to his concerns and the right course of action will be clear.

[venusishername]

Oh Venus,

I wish you would save the big discussions for when you two are face to face. That said it seems like he is limiting your time together while he is in Cali. Wondering why he needs to spend 24/7 with his cousins/older kids and not the bulk of his time with you, his potential wife. (He brought up the ring and bridesmaid stuff). It doesn't make sense. Seems you ought to be his number one priority at this stage. Your time alone is critical right now.

 

He is stalling....first by putting the breaks on you moving there when the wheels were in motion and secondly by telling you that you're being demanding when you try to pin him down on his going west.

 

He needs time. Time to raise cash? Hmmm.

 

He would like to stall some more knowing it makes you unhappy? I would see how things go when you see him and if he's not willing to have a hard discussion without accusing you of pressuring him or if he throws those "ifs" back in your face by all means move on, move ahead. Never mind the sunk costs. You gave it your best. I still maintain that you two have had enough time to know. He may actually like it the way it is right now and is satisfied with phone sex when he gets it, while you require a living, breathing partner for intimacy. No crime in that.

 

Keep your cool throughout the holidays and try to let him lead the discussion. By now he knows where you stand. Listen carefully to his concerns and the right course of action will be clear.

I'm with you all the way.

I appreciate your post, and of course everyone else who is following and chiming in.

I admit I am falling to impatience and am being hard nosed and well a bit 'demanding'... but I have to defend myself in one respect...

He hasn't made the decision to move to CA just a month ago. He's been talking about trying to get out to CA since we met. Like we had a similar conversation last year around the holidays too. I remember him being in my house and saying that, it just takes time, maybe in "six months to a year". I completely understand how difficult it is to move across the country, especially if you're not completely sure if it would be worth the risk... if you have doubts whether you can be compatible or not, long term, or if you're fit for each others' lifestyles and goals. I emphasize with him very much. Moving to another state is a nice idea, but sometimes you just don't want to leave the life that you're used to. I don't think that's his fault. I think I feel the same way. It's hard for me to leave CA. I have a lot of roots here too, ones I don't want to leave. I feel like in a LDR it is just a lose-lose situation....even if the intentions are good, sometimes you just can't pull the trigger and commit to moving to another city. I get it, and I don't fault him for that. But if he genuinely wants to, then by all means he should do it and I would be happy if he did, if he did it for himself and not because I was 'pressuring' or being 'demanding'.

 

It is obvious to me that we have some lifestyle differences, cultural differences. He sees that too. He even mentioned it yesterday. It's not good or bad, we just have different backgrounds and culture that we are used to.

 

 

My point is, his "decision" to move to CA in my mind, is still just the same talk as it was before. I don't see much of a real, concrete effort to move here anytime within a definite timeframe.

I also want to say that I don't see it as him putting the brakes on me moving there. It was evident that I had reservations and wasn't all the way on it either. I'm not sure I agree that he was stalling by changing the plans.... or if he genuinely believes a life in CA is better for me (and him, if he comes here, possibly), so there would be no reason for me to come there first. Those are my sticking points to what has been said above.

 

Other than that, Sometymeswhy, I agree fully that after this amount of time, progressing the relationship should be the number one priority. He took the reigns on that one and now he needs time. I like what you said about "Time for what. To raise cash?" Well, yes, that is what his chief concern is (well one of the reasons) all along. That it would take time to save money and get the resources to be able to move. He has a good position now, a contract for "up to six months" and the money is good. He has plenty of opportunity to be saving money if he was serious about moving. But since I don't see him every day, I don't know if he's saving (he said he had put x amount away so far), but then the cold hard facts hit me in the face recently.

 

He is spending a lot of money to come visit CA with his kids and buying rental car, flying to Northern CA first, upgrading the seats, staying in hotels.... I mean, that's all great that he can do that for himself and show his daughter CA for the first time. He says he wants to show her how great it is here...so she can see there's a much better life here than in LA. I commend him for doing that. But the point is, he's spending a lot of money when if it were ME, if I was serious about moving... I wouldn't be spending ANY disposable income on vacations. I know that PART of this trip is to see me too. But it's not about me, and that's ok.... I understand it's for his family... but I have to admit I have been hurt that I have to take the backseat to that. I see the dilemma. He wants to see me and show his kids a great time with family in CA, and that is wonderful. But the time and money spent to do that is actually taking away from the longer term goal of making a move here. It puts it off more, the money issue. If he's going to use the excuse of needing to save money to move... then he needs to be saving the money to move. And I don't see that happening if the money's spent on these trips. In my mind, I agree with NoGo, the LA/CA trips every 2 months have run their course. I'm done with it. No more vacations. I'll take vacations when I'm in an established relationship in the same city. I've told him that too. It was great for the past year. After this last visit though... it got old and I decided I'm not planning to go visit LA again unless I was traveling with him there.

 

I was telling my friend that all these vacations and family time is wonderful if we had a regular, every day relationship where we had lots of 'relationship' time to begin with. But going to parties and being around family constantly... hasn't appealed to me at all. In fact, it's causing me stress and anxiety. Because under these circumstances, the last thing I want to do is be around a ton of people and not be able to talk privately with him.

 

I just wanted to mention something else about the guy who asked me out the other night. I mean, I'm not interested in him but it made me wonder why I would even entertain the idea of accepting his offer. He made going on a date sound incredibly appealing. I admit I even noticed another guy that night that I would have liked to talk to but never did. He saw me and we locked eyes a couple times. I noticed he kept looking my way. I thought he was really handsome. As it turns out he is a good friend of the groom and has recently moved to the area. For some reason, I hate to admit this... but I've been really curious about him ever since... and well... this has been the first time I even thought about another man that way since I started this relationship. I kind of hope I can see him again and we can actually talk. The fact that this is happening is proof that I have started to detach. And it's hard to accept. But it's the truth and I have to admit that to myself. It's very hard.

 

Here's something I've been thinking about. You say that after this amount of time we should be sure. I agree with you. After a year, you should know for sure if you want to progress or you want to call it quits. Well, what if I am not sure? I guess that is obvious, isn't it? Now, I'm even more unsure.

I hate to say this out loud, but noticing that handsome guy and wanting to get to know him, and considering a date with someone else... I mean, maybe I've fallen a little out of love with my boyfriend?

What if I have? Maybe that's why I've been testy or impatient and I'm sure that's part of why the lack of "sex" lately. I think it has been since after our last visit... all the conversations lately have been largely focused on his Christmas vacation plans. I feel like I'm just going to see him only because I happen to live in CA.

 

You also said something about maybe he's perfectly comfortable with this status quo, and I think for the most part, he is! That's what I mean, I feel like these vacations are more important to him than the actual every day relationship. Of course, I know that he wants to come home to someone and go out on dates and share a life with someone. I know that. It just seems like it might just be more convenient for him to just see me when he feels like it. That's what my dad said too. It's harsh and cynical but I kind of see the merit in it. If he was truly available and interested in an every day, serious, committed, fully immersed intimate relationship... not over the phone every day but in real life... then he'd be already getting fed up like I am with these silly 'vacations'.

 

Interestingly, he has pointed out for months that I seem to get really anxious and upset around the time that we are going to be seeing each other on these visits. He can see that in me, and I finally realized why that is. I never did that with other boyfriends... mainly because I never did only see them every 2 months for less than a week at a time. I realized today that the reason I get like that is because I am not satisfied with that short term and I know in advance that the 'vacation' will soon end and I'll go back to being "single" soon after. I hate it. He seems to either be ok with it, or just more accepting of those circumstances. My dad says that my bf is making this relationship convenient only for himself on his own time, and isn't committing to the relationship and is stalling. My dad thinks he probably won't ever do it if he hasn't by now. I don't want to believe that but dad has a lot of solid points and has usually been right about all the men I've ever dated who weren't interested in committing.

 

 

I still believe that you don't need to live together, you don't need to live in the same city to know, after a year, if you want to commit to someone or not. You either go all in or you don't. I guess I've been dragging my feet too but am clear on what I need and want, whereas he has been dragging a lot more and has the attitude of 'I just adapt to my circumstances and am grateful for each day and don't have any expectations'. Must be nice to feel so free. This has caused me a lot of upset. I know I'm too serious and think too much, maybe he has a better attitude and is probably a happier person than I am because of that... but I don't think it's unreasonable to have expectations and goals for your own life and future when it comes to a relationship, and particularly in progressing past a level of "vacation relationship". Am I right?

 

 

I mean, I was willing to move to LA but just not live with him. Maybe I stalled too in a way by not fully committing to that idea...

 

After I posted earlier today, (we had talked on my lunch break which has been the standard with his work schedule lately), he was short with me and upset. He told me I was putting him in a bad mood and was being demanding, etc. I told him after that I'm sorry, I can see he's upset, maybe it's best that we take a breather and cool down and maybe a good idea not to talk until we do. I am sure that his ego is hurting. I can see that.

 

So later on today, he texted me and said that he found out he has more time off than expected, and is looking to come to CA early, without his kids, so he can see me first. I responded that would be nice, and to keep me posted. He apologized for the way he acted earlier when we talked. He was short with me and clearly has been upset since what I told him on Monday. I feel for him...... I don't want to hurt him, I really don't.

 

But I also think... all the incompatibilities and uncertainties I've had all along are still there. They haven't gone away and he's not going to change if he moves here or if we do get married. He's not as stable and secure and responsible (impulsive being a key trait) as I think I really need in my partner. I don't know if it's right or wrong that he is that way... maybe some people would be more fit to that personality... but I'm not so sure that I am. I mean, of course there is compromise. Maybe I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth, am being too critical. But he's very different from the other men I see who are married, fathers, and stable and secure. He's a very good man but he's fly by the seat of his pants, even though I know he has good intentions. My mom pointed that out and she's the least judgmental person that I know.

 

I realized lately (and I've always known) that I need and want to settle down. Like stay in one place, and put my roots down, have a family and do all the corny Christmas family photo cards, and take my kid to private school and soccer practice. Can I see that with him? I don't know. Maybe I'd be better suited to someone from a similar background and education and who has a lifestyle similar to mine and who is more stable and responsible. I've seen too many times over the course of the relationship that he's complained he's broke or got the boot on the car, or took advantage of his low rent to rent out rooms and make a profit on it. Where did that money go? I guess towards all these vacations.... seems irresponsible to me.

 

I don't know if I'm just too critical or judgmental, but those little things have added up and I can't ignore that they've happened. I'm not sure if it's too much for me to ask or if it's too demanding and princess-y to want a man who is stable and secure and not so impulsive. It shows a lack of responsibility. I mean, he's a good man to the core and I guess these things aren't really intentional and not personality defects.... I just don't know if I can be ok with those things. I've seen him get extremely hyper and antsy on our little vacations and it causes me anxiety sometimes. One of my gfs met him and she thinks he's great but she said the same thing about the anxiety. She pointed out that I seemed like I was getting annoyed with him when he got like that. And I do. That's not going to change if we live in the same city. Maybe he's right... maybe we don't really know if we will get along and have what it takes.

 

On that note, I just wanted to clarify- I didn't end the relationship. I told him I wanted to date him if and when he moved to CA. In the meantime we have still been talking and communicating as normal, but I have said very clearly what I want and how I feel. I DO support him moving here, but I hate to say it, until I see ACTION, I think it's the same old story as it was some time ago. I mean, I think I just called his bluff and he doesn't like it. I can't help it, I feel I have reasons to believe he is stalling, like Sometymes pointed out. I was planning to move there, I didn't want to do it, but I wanted to give the relationship my full attention and priority, and had a timeline. Until he said he would do it instead. An act of stalling on his part? I don't know.

 

I also realized that my reservations do have merit, and what I am asking for may not be what he wants to or can give. We all know I want a marriage and family. I know he wants a relationship but I'm not sure he wants all that I do since he's already done it. It's certainly not a priority to him as it is to me. That is clear.

 

When that younger guy asked me out, I kinda thought... well, if I were to date a guy who is my age like he is, he would be more likely to be on the same page as far as those kind of goals. Not necessarily, but probably.

 

I don't mean to be impatient, but I've given this over a year.. and as of right now, things are on the rocks.

I told him I would like to go ahead with the plans to see each other for Xmas... (maybe not the whole time) but we can see how things are then and then go from there. If we spend time together and realize it's not going to work out, or if we come to another conclusion and it solidifies something to progress... then that's acceptable. I'm willing to go ahead with the plans to see him when he comes. Not necessarily with all the family and all the parties, but at least we intend to go ahead and spend the time together while he is here. Obviously at this point I think it is necessary.

 

Once he told me he would like to try and see me first, to come early without the kids and spend some time alone with me... well... that was good news. We will see if he does that. I haven't heard any more since, and I wasn't planning on talking with him tonight because I was the one who said I think we should take a breather from talking if he is upset and since the emotions are high. I don't expect to hear from him tonight after work when he usually calls... but I'm sure I'll be hearing soon if he's making special plans to come be with me alone first. If he does come early it will be about a week away.....

 

I think he realized that I was serious when I said what I did on Monday, and I had enough. I think he can see that I am at the end of my rope and I can see him trying to get back into my good graces.

 

I take responsibility for my part in this. Maybe I have been too stubborn in many ways. But I think it is completely reasonable after over a year of dating exclusively, that it is time to finally close the distance, as quickly as possible, working together to make that happen, or just end it completely and date only if you live in the same city.

 

 

It just doesn't seem conducive to my goals and desires to continue a long distance relationship where the main priority on my bf's end seems to be planning short term vacations then complaining he needs more time to save up enough money to maybe move here sometime next year. I'm sorry. That's not good enough for me. I want and need more than that. He can step up to the plate, I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's see how this holiday goes.

[introverted1]

I think it is completely reasonable after over a year of dating exclusively, that it is time to finally close the distance, as quickly as possible, working together to make that happen, or just end it completely and date only if you live in the same city.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that this isn't reasonable!

 

But the method matters. In a true partnership, you would see at the, say, 8-month mark, that you wanted a life with this man and then you would have a face-to-face conversation about what he wants. You'd determine then whether your visions for the future line up. Assuming they did, you'd then move on to discussing how to achieve your (now) singular vision of being together in one city.

 

None of that seems to have happened here. Of course we are limited by what you write, but the gist I've gotten is that you have laid down a series of wants/needs that he is expected to deliver. Now there is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and having clear boundaries, etc. But the piece that seems to be missing is hearing what HE wants. His wants and needs are no less important than yours. And aside from the one reference to a 2-year engagement, and multiple references to his willingness to have you live in his house (something that he can passively offer rather than actively work toward), there doesn't seem to have been any concrete discussion about whether his wants/needs sync with your own.

 

In any case, I think that's the conversation you need to have if he comes next week: where does he want to be be 1, 5, 10 years from now? What is he doing to make those goals come true? I think we (and he) know where you want to be. Listen hard to his answers and try not to judge. There is no right or wrong answer, just matters of compatibility. And that's your goal, isn't it? To determine whether you actually have compatibility.