When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

This is bizarre and cruel. You know you're incompatible, you don't believe this man can give you the kind of lifestyle you desire, you're already interested in other men, but you'll still let him waste a couple hundred bucks to fly out for some "grand" gesture to win you back? You know how impulsive he is. What if he proposes? Would you accept being engaged and then at least five or six months more of a long-distance relationship---all before you had any idea whether you two could make it work or not?

 

Venus, you said you would date him if he lived in California. Does he live in California? No? Then you're broken up. Yes, breaking up is hard, but stringing someone along with your indecision is ghastly. You cannot continue your relationship.

[Kamille]

I'm sorry it has come to this. It must be really painful for you.

 

I feel like one of the things that fuels the debates on this thread is your tendency to say one thing and its opposite. In the lines I pulled below, you do it again. I know that in your head there's a big difference between falling out of love "enough" and not loving him anymore, but I assure you that for anyone on the receiving end, falling out a little or completely is just as painful. So basically, you can't deliver one message and expect him to hear the other.

 

 

 

Maybe I started falling out of love, a little. Maybe enough.

 

(...)

 

He’s acting like I’m giving up and I don’t love him anymore. And that’s really not what I’m saying at all but I think either he’s hurt and this is his defense mechanism or the truth is really coming out…

 

And from reading your thread over the last few months, I feel like you were doing the same thing with the timeline of the move, having children, getting engaged, getting married. Yes, you had mentioned that he had considered moving to CA a few times, but you presented it as something of the past. When I read your thread, your focus was on figuring out under which conditions you would be ready to move to LA. The discussions you reported having with him seemed geared that way. So perhaps you wanted him to move to CA but did you ever state that clearly to him until now?

 

This is perhaps where you could work to improve wether in this relationship or in the future. You can't say one thing and expect your partner to hear the other. Worse yet, you can't say both things and not expect confusion on his end. Holding both views could also lead him to hear what he wants to hear and take advantage of you. Work on stating clearly what you want.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Kamille

[No_Go]

Oh don't do the holiday meet - you'd just both traumatize each other and drag the death of the RL for months (you're 33 - can you really afford staying in a dead RL??)

 

If you want closure, meet some time after the holidays... But not in each other's homes.

 

I'm in similar situation to you (my relationship died) and I really can't move on because we still see each other. I had 2 months of total misery because I couldn't just snap detach from him.

 

Be strong and don't meet him - it will only make things worse and will get you away from the decision that you've already come to.

[Jejangles]

Agreed with others, you sound done with this relationship. I think all the concerns you outlined are incredibly valid. When you are choosing a romantic partner, you need to be sure you have core values and desires. You guys are missing the mark on a lot of things, and I think you are having too many doubts for this guy to be the one. And if I were in your shoes, I would definitely not be ok with a family time only Christmas or feeling like an add on to other plans.

 

I am a little older than you, and I met my boyfriend a couple of months after you - we are just coming up on 1 year. He lives a 20 minute walk away, we share all the important views on life, get along great (never run out of things to say), have great physical chemistry, he has a good job, is stable and wants the same things as me. I'm not trying to brag and I'm not saying everything is perfect, but in the same time frame as you and at a similar age, I have met a guy who I will be moving in with in the new year, and we are seriously talking timeframes for marriage and kids. I don't even think about other guys or need to ask questions on this forum because I can see that the guy standing in front of me is who I want.

 

What you want for your life is not an impossible dream! But as long as you are tied up in the wrong relationship, with so many doubts, you will not be open to the right person and situation. It's ok to want someone who is more reliable, has a steadier income and who clearly wants the same things in life as you.

[MidwestUSA]

Venus, there is a reason I asked about contracts/construction.

 

This guy might be awesome, but you're not of the same socioeconomic status. He sounds a lot more laid back than you, to the point of flying by the seat of his pants. You've talked about financial irresponsibility from the start - the car boots, the screws in the washer.

 

I'm married to a construction worker. Now, I don't know what your guy's line of work is, but my husband is disabled. Depends on whether your guy was in the trenches with back breaking labor, I suppose. And I don't think you get into construction without that phase.

 

Contracts - they come and go. They get extended, they get broken, they finish early. The tendency is to spend money when you have it, because you expect that something else will come along. Eventually.

 

My H hasn't worked steadily in six years, he's 49. He was done raising his family nine years ago, and if he'd said 'maybe' to a child in the future, I'd know he was blowing smoke.

 

Guess who's busting her butt filing disability papers and dragging him to doctors? Guess who's pulling in the only income in my household? But I'm more than twenty years older than you; my financial security has been set for some time. I'll soon enough be retired and disabled myself.

 

My point is, combine your age difference with this guy's lifestyle. He's on the downhill side. He may make enough to provide for you, but I wouldn't expect the lifestyle you truly want. He's comfy in NOLA because he can afford it, and has his father and a house to fall back on. I'm betting he's simply been renting, and has no equity built up. Up until recently, you led him to believe you were going there. Yet you allowed yourself all the time in the world to ponder it, and renewed your lease. That was probably a blow to him. So, HE makes the offer to move, and everything is supposed to happen overnight?

 

I think you've been checking out for some time. Time to call an end to it.

[NuevoYorko]

Why are you so resentful of him spending money on traveling with his kids (to see YOU)? You've brought this up numerous times. How is this different from you having just bought yourself a new car instead of putting that money towards your future with him?

 

Does he know about how interested you are in other guys all of a sudden? Why not tell him soon so he can take that into consideration when thinking about this trip.

 

Sorry, but I'm feeling defensive on behalf of this man. I have followed this thread closely. I don't think you're being fair with him at all. Have you actually told him, straight up, "I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN YOU IF YOU PROMISE TO MARRY ME AND GET ME PREGNANT WITHIN ONE YEAR"? If not, you really need to. Just completely straightforward and in one sentence. Let him decide what to do with it. Or, simply break up.

[Imajerk17]

I must admit, I saw your last post venus, found myself intimidated by the huge tsunami of words, and only skimmed.

 

When it comes to your relationship, I am wondering if you communicate your feelings and desires more to LS way more than you do to your S/O. My Gawd, I suspect I know more about your concerns and wishes than your boyfriend does

 

If you actually *are* communicating w your boyfriend as much as you are with us, then you seem incredibly high-maintenance, a huge emotional load. As one of the few men who checks in on this thread, I must tell you how draining it is to be in a relationship like this. Maybe your boyfriend is less than enthusiastic about things himself, due to you constantly unpacking on him the equivalent of your long long posts. He might not know how to tell you this and he might not even be consciously aware of it. It's still quite possible though. It might be a reason why it seems to you that he is dragging his feet on things.

 

Real love isn't this complicated, it can't be.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Weezy1973]

Venus - I've been following your thread for quite awhile and had a few posts way back, but have been refraining recently because I feel like most of the other posters have been posting very valuable contributions.

 

Honestly Venus, at this point I think you would make a pretty poor wife and life partner. Your posts are so self-absorbed. It's really me, me, me. Here's what I want, and he better step up. It's been that way from the start. I knew pretty early on that this wasn't going to happen. And let's be honest, his wait and see attitude has turned out to be very wise.

 

That being said, I don't think you're destined to be a bad wife / partner. In fact, I think you can take this as a great learning experience about long term compatibility. You can also learn that when you're in a partnership, your partner's needs matter just as much as yours do! It can't be all about you. Love isn't about what your partner can do for you, or what you do for your partner. It's about each of you deeply caring about each other's wellbeing and feelings, and compromising a lot because you care so much about your partner. That is not what happened here. Live and learn.

 

Also...perhaps instead of being so focused on marriage and kids...instead focus on finding a man that shares your values and that you're compatible with that you can then get married and have kids with. In life it's generally best to put the horse BEFORE the cart...

[GemmaUK]

I saw this all coming a while back - several months back.

 

You seem to be very controlling. He is laid back - but actually he is also being far more realistic about things IMO. He is currently getting extremely frustrated - I would be too and for me I would quit this. Bear in mind he is likely only vocalising 'some' frustration right now - there's more to come I suspect.

Things seem to be always about what you want with little or no consideration for him.

 

I think you are also living some kind of fantasy in your mind - he is one guy when you are with him and a different guy when you're not. This whole who moves thing is getting ridiculous.

You said you were planning to move there and then you renew your lease.

This must have hit hard for him - and things were better then. Now he is under massive pressure to move and move now as he suggested he moves to you. Why is it different for him time scale wise?

Plus he has to move asap and you are eyeing up other men? Really?

Poor NOLA guy will never be in the right will he??!! He has no chance whatsoever!

 

You two are very incompatible - something which you have written about over and over and over again yet you still don't seem to 'actually' see it.

 

I think it would be great for him to keep his Christmas trip on but I don't think you two should be with each other - a prolonged agony.

 

Being unhappily in a RS when meeting new folks and spending Christmas with them is no fun at all.

[clia]

I also realized that my reservations do have merit, and what I am asking for may not be what he wants to or can give. We all know I want a marriage and family. I know he wants a relationship but I'm not sure he wants all that I do since he's already done it. It's certainly not a priority to him as it is to me. That is clear.

 

How do you not have a definitive answer on this by now? I don't get it. You were going to move across the country to him, he was going to move across the country to you, but you don't even know if the two of you want the same things long term? Have you two had serious conversations about the future? I posted before that the two of you seem like two islands doing your own thing, and this solidifies that feeling even further for me. It truly seems like the two of you are not, and have never been, on the same page with any of this. How does that happen?

 

Ultimately, you keep bringing up the exact same incompatibilities, issues, and uncertainties over and over again. His blue collarness, his financial situation, his irresponsibility, his annoying habits, etc. The question is, with all of those incompatibilities and uncertainties that have been bothering you from the very beginning, why did you waste an entire year on this relationship?

[venusishername]

When it comes to your relationship, I am wondering if you communicate your feelings and desires more to LS way more than you do to your S/O. My Gawd, I suspect I know more about your concerns and wishes than your boyfriend does

If you actually *are* communicating w your boyfriend as much as you are with us, then you seem incredibly high-maintenance, a huge emotional load. As one of the few men who checks in on this thread, I must tell you how draining it is to be in a relationship like this. Maybe your boyfriend is less than enthusiastic about things himself, due to you constantly unpacking on him the equivalent of your long long posts. He might not know how to tell you this and he might not even be consciously aware of it. It's still quite possible though. It might be a reason why it seems to you that he is dragging his feet on things.

Real love isn't this complicated, it can't be.

 

I see. Well, no, of course I don’t communicate to him the way I do here. This has been my outlet. LS knows so much more than he does, trust me.

 

Honestly Venus, at this point I think you would make a pretty poor wife and life partner. Your posts are so self-absorbed. It's really me, me, me. Here's what I want, and he better step up. It's been that way from the start. I knew pretty early on that this wasn't going to happen. And let's be honest, his wait and see attitude has turned out to be very wise.

That being said, I don't think you're destined to be a bad wife / partner. In fact, I think you can take this as a great learning experience about long term compatibility. You can also learn that when you're in a partnership, your partner's needs matter just as much as yours do! It can't be all about you. Love isn't about what your partner can do for you, or what you do for your partner. It's about each of you deeply caring about each other's wellbeing and feelings, and compromising a lot because you care so much about your partner. That is not what happened here. Live and learn.

 

What did you know early on that “wasn’t going to happen”?

 

Maybe that is why I am still single and never did get married. I’ve been taken advantage of by men and so I am extremely defensive and well, maybe too hard nosed sometimes. I think you could be right about me not being a good wife. At the end of my last relationship my ex said I would be a terrible wife. I never forgot it. It still hurts. It may be true if you notice it too. I thought my ex was just being cruel.

 

I don’t think I have come across to my bf as “you better step up”- and it’s all about me, me, me. I have asked him what he wants and well, I just don’t know how either one of us can ever give each other what we want if we don’t come together in the same city and fully commit to this relationship. I have also positioned things in a way to him not in a blaming way or demanding way (at least I don’t think), but I simply communicate how I feel and what my needs are. I’m not sitting there going “you better step up and give me what I want”.

 

Of course his wants and needs matter. I just don’t believe living together before marriage is right for me anymore. What else is there that I can do differently or to take into account his feelings and wants and needs differently?

 

WHAT EXACTLY CAN I BE DOING OR ACTING DIFFERENTLY IN THIS SITUATION? Putting his needs and wants before my own completely?

 

I know it is about compromise. Weezy. I was ready and willing to compromise to move to LA and rent my own room in an Airbnb just so we could be together in a normal relationship. Even if neither one of us knew we were compatible. No strings attached. Seemed scary to me but I was willing to do it. I said no to living together before marriage. Is that being uncompromising and selfish? I don’t know what I can do to be more compromising here. Please tell me what it is you think would make a difference.

Save

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Edited December 18, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I see. Well, no, of course I don’t communicate to him the way I do here. This has been my outlet. LS knows so much more than he does, trust me.

 

What did you know early on that “wasn’t going to happen”?

 

Maybe that is why I am still single and never did get married. I’ve been taken advantage of by men and so I am extremely defensive and well, maybe too hard nosed sometimes. I think you could be right about me not being a good wife. At the end of my last relationship my ex said I would be a terrible wife. I never forgot it. It still hurts. It may be true if you notice it too. I thought my ex was just being cruel.

 

I don’t think I have come across to my bf as “you better step up”- and it’s all about me, me, me. I have asked him what he wants and well, I just don’t know how either one of us can ever give each other what we want if we don’t come together in the same city and fully commit to this relationship. I have also positioned things in a way to him not in a blaming way or demanding way (at least I don’t think), but I simply communicate how I feel and what my needs are. I’m not sitting there going “you better step up and give me what I want”.

 

Of course his wants and needs matter. I just don’t believe living together before marriage is right for me anymore. What else is there that I can do differently or to take into account his feelings and wants and needs differently?

 

WHAT EXACTLY CAN I BE DOING OR ACTING DIFFERENTLY IN THIS SITUATION? Putting his needs and wants before my own completely?

 

I know it is about compromise. Weezy. I was ready and willing to compromise to move to LA and rent my own room in an Airbnb just so we could be together in a normal relationship. Even if neither one of us knew we were compatible. No strings attached. Seemed scary to me but I was willing to do it. I said no to living together before marriage. Is that being uncompromising and selfish? I don’t know what I can do to be more compromising here. Please tell me what it is you think would make a difference.

 

Sometimes you simply need to avoid overthinking and all this emotion,

Some of the best things in life happen because of fearless devotion.

Advice is vicariously given, but these people, even IF they are your friends,

...don't end up with the consequence (or reward) of your decision in the end.

Edited December 18, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[lana-banana]

Venus, you are past the point of compromise. For goodness' sake, you are seriously thinking about contacting other men! It is over, over, over. As terrible as it is to not do this face-to-face you need to break it off for good.

Edited December 15, 2016 by lana-banana

[NuevoYorko]

WHAT EXACTLY CAN I BE DOING OR ACTING DIFFERENTLY IN THIS SITUATION? Putting his needs and wants before my own completely?

 

Absolutely NOT. I think I gave solid advice on this earlier.

 

Just tell him, in 100% clear, concise, black and white language:

 

I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN THIS RELATIONSHIP IF YOU PROMISE TO MARRY ME AND GIVE ME A CHILD WITHIN ONE YEAR.

 

That's it.

 

Then completely be QUIET and wait for what he has to say. When he says it, listen to him and believe it. If it's not exactly what you want to hear, you have two choices:

 

1) move on

 

2) compromise massively on your demands. Because a man in his 40's who doesn't actively WANT to get married and start having his second round of kids really should not be doing that, for his own sake and for yours.

[venusishername]

Why are you so resentful of him spending money on traveling with his kids (to see YOU)? You've brought this up numerous times. How is this different from you having just bought yourself a new car instead of putting that money towards your future with him?

 

Does he know about how interested you are in other guys all of a sudden? Why not tell him soon so he can take that into consideration when thinking about this trip.

Sorry, but I'm feeling defensive on behalf of this man. I have followed this thread closely. I don't think you're being fair with him at all. Have you actually told him, straight up, "I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN YOU IF YOU PROMISE TO MARRY ME AND GET ME PREGNANT WITHIN ONE YEAR"? If not, you really need to. Just completely straightforward and in one sentence. Let him decide what to do with it. Or, simply break up.

 

This isn't fair. I'm not resentful of him spending money on his kids!! He’s not coming here to see me, he’s coming here to take his kids on a trip to Northern CA and then for Xmas eve and Xmas be in a county a couple hours from where I live where we will be driving to various family members’ places.

 

I bought a new car because my old one literally died as I was getting on the onramp. I had been planning to get one for some time anyway. Also, that did not take up all my funds, so if the agreement was to still go to LA I would still be able and willing to put money towards that. I didn’t decide to get a new car and not spend the money to move. I also renewed my lease because I was not ready to move in October when the lease was up. I told him I would be prepared to break the lease, so renewing it was kind of a formality. I guess those things also show that I was dragging my feet a little too. I understand.

 

No, of course he doesn’t know that I was asked out the other night and recently have been frustrated and wishing I could have a real face to face relationship in the same city with someone. I’m not out looking for other men. I am tempted lately, I admit. I would NEVER use that as a manipulation tactic (Gemma) that he must get out here ASAP or I’m going to go out with another guy. I said something about how I really would like to go out on a real date, and I don’t feel that is too much to ask at this point. I want a face to face every day relationship. Is that selfish and demanding? I don’t ^%*^$ing understand how that can be taken as “no regard for his feelings”.

I want to point out that his trip out here honestly has very little to do with me, at least that is how I feel. I will see him amongst many many family members and I’d be lucky if we had any alone time at all for less than 48 hours. I am thrilled that he can be with his kids and he loves CA.

 

I saw this all coming a while back - several months back.

You seem to be very controlling. He is laid back - but actually he is also being far more realistic about things IMO. He is currently getting extremely frustrated - I would be too and for me I would quit this. Bear in mind he is likely only vocalising 'some' frustration right now - there's more to come I suspect.

Things seem to be always about what you want with little or no consideration for him.

I think you are also living some kind of fantasy in your mind - he is one guy when you are with him and a different guy when you're not. This whole who moves thing is getting ridiculous.

You said you were planning to move there and then you renew your lease.

This must have hit hard for him - and things were better then. Now he is under massive pressure to move and move now as he suggested he moves to you. Why is it different for him time scale wise?

Plus he has to move asap and you are eyeing up other men? Really?

Poor NOLA guy will never be in the right will he??!! He has no chance whatsoever!

You two are very incompatible - something which you have written about over and over and over again yet you still don't seem to 'actually' see it.

I think it would be great for him to keep his Christmas trip on but I don't think you two should be with each other - a prolonged agony.

Being unhappily in a RS when meeting new folks and spending Christmas with them is no fun at all.

 

How do you not have a definitive answer on this by now? I don't get it. You were going to move across the country to him, he was going to move across the country to you, but you don't even know if the two of you want the same things long term? Have you two had serious conversations about the future? I posted before that the two of you seem like two islands doing your own thing, and this solidifies that feeling even further for me. It truly seems like the two of you are not, and have never been, on the same page with any of this. How does that happen?

Ultimately, you keep bringing up the exact same incompatibilities, issues, and uncertainties over and over again. His blue collarness, his financial situation, his irresponsibility, his annoying habits, etc. The question is, with all of those incompatibilities and uncertainties that have been bothering you from the very beginning, why did you waste an entire year on this relationship?

 

I’m not sure if it’s because we never had a chance to have a relationship that was either not over the phone or not during a vacation that there is no definitive answer. I mean, of course we HAVE talked about these things, of course… maybe there was some kind of disconnect or something.. I feel like we have been islands. I’m not sure it’s because it’s hard to tell what’s pillow talk or hormones or it was just feeling so disconnected due to the distance. Clia, I feel like he and I have been living separate lives within this relationship. So maybe that’s why it’s been hard for me to determine if we are on the same page. It’s hard to explain.

 

Venus, you are past the point of compromise. It is over, over, over. As terrible as it is to not do this face-to-face you need to break it off for good.

 

Lana, is there anything I can do differently at this point? I don’t want to be a bad wife or wife material. Maybe I have been too stubborn and selfish and would be a bad partner and my bf is right for waiting? Is there anything I can do now that would be more compromising or considerate of what he wants and needs? Does he want me to wait for him here until he comes? Is that what I’m supposed to do to put his needs before mine?

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Edited December 18, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
paragraphs ~T

[introverted1]

Venus, it's mind boggling that you guys really have not talked about what you want from the relationship in concrete terms, i.e., not pillow talk fantasies.

 

And while I would say you should temper what Nuevo Yorko has presented, I agree that you need to articulate that you want to be married and pregnant by October, 2017 (or whatever your timeline is). And then he needs to make a similarly definitive statement such as that he wants to be engaged by June 2017, married sometime in 2019, and not ready to put a timeline on children. Or whatever his response is. THEN you figure out whether you can compromise.

 

Right now, you toggle between issuing edicts of what he has to do in order to keep you (I've lost count of the number of times you've written something to the effect that he knows he has to do X in order to make you happy) and passively sitting back. Neither of these demonstrate good communication.

 

OTOH, to a large extent this is theoretical because I also agree with those who say that this relationship is done. He may have been a pleasant diversion, but he's not the guy you imagine for your life and he will always, always, struggle to live up to your aspirations.

[lana-banana]

This isn't fair. I'm not resentful of him spending money on his kids!! He’s not coming here to see me, he’s coming here to take his kids on a trip to Northern CA and then for Xmas eve and Xmas be in a county a couple hours from where I live where we will be driving to various family members’ places.

 

I think you resent this whether you admit it or not.

 

Lana, is there anything I can do differently at this point? I don’t want to be a bad wife or wife material. Maybe I have been too stubborn and selfish and would be a bad partner and my bf is right for waiting? Is there anything I can do now that would be more compromising or considerate of what he wants and needs?

 

Venus, why are you fixated on being bad wife material to a guy you aren't going to marry? You're really going to let him fly all the way out to you and beg pathetically to continue the relationship and put a ring that he can't afford on your finger so your life together starts with enormous debt and at least six more months of a long-distance relationship? Is that the story you want to tell your friends? "Well, I was fed up and he didn't meet my standards, but I told him it was my way or the highway so he put a ring on it"? All that would do is guarantee you end up unhappily ever after like all those other people you know.

 

You've already wasted so much time in this relationship. How much more are you willing to waste?

 

Does he want me to wait for him here until he comes? Is that what I’m supposed to do to put his needs before mine?

 

What the---you're asking ME (a stranger on the internet) what YOUR BOYFRIEND wants?! Do you realize how utterly broken your communication is now??

[Sometymeswhy]

Venus,

People at LS are being blunt because you have mentioned over and over the personality quirks and lifestyle traits he has that grind on you. Tigers of his age rarely change their stripes so it's up to you to come to terms with that because those annoyances only get worse with time.

 

I am afraid that he has dangled the marriage carrot in a passive attempt to placate you and now you're calling him on it. Readers remember that he brought up sourcing rings, bridesmaid choices and whatnot? He isn't stepping up and being the knight in shining armor but rather blowing you off for family that he has his whole life to hang with. It's avoidance of the tough talk he knows is coming.

 

He loves the idea of dating and having sex with a younger, fresher girl, but when push comes to shove he's in no rush to move it forward. He's a good time guy and wants to skip along in the happy place. He now knows that dating a woman your age comes with pressure of this nature. Hence the angst on his part. You both have something the other wants and something the other doesn't want.

 

I would avoid spending time with him and his family until you two have alone time. It's worth another meeting. Why not? He'll be in California. Particularly since you are questioning your love for him. If and when you see him, please take decisive action, perhaps put it on ice if you're at a stalemate Trust your gut. You are unhappy in this relationship and it will be more of the same for a long time...it's not healthy. But...he may surprise you.

 

Otherwise, go on a few dates and enjoy yourself.

What was wrong with the guy who asked you out at the wedding? Did you shut him down because you are in a LDR (albeit shaky) or was there something otherwise wrong with him?

[Kamille]

Venus, how would you describe your communication style with your bf? How could you improve it?

[Els]

 

If you actually *are* communicating w your boyfriend as much as you are with us, then you seem incredibly high-maintenance, a huge emotional load. As one of the few men who checks in on this thread, I must tell you how draining it is to be in a relationship like this

 

I'm a woman and I would've been exhausted by Page 5.

 

Venus, could I ask you what exactly you like about your bf? Not stuff like him actually expressing interest in a relationship with you unlike all those other dudes that only wanted casual dating... but stuff that's actually about him and not the role that any warm body could fill. What is it about his personality, your relationship with him, the experiences you've had together, that makes you want to stay with him?

[Weezy1973]

What did you know early on that “wasn’t going to happen”?

 

This potential marriage. Venus, I'm really on your side. I like you. I'm invested. This isn't right.

 

Here's how I think it's gone. When you were younger, you didn't really like good guys. And by good guys, I mean relationship oriented, loyal, dependable, men that would make good husband and father material. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But now...now!! You do like those guys! But here's the thing. You can find a great guy...who wants the same things you do...and you're still NOT compatible! That's what I think happened in this case. You met a great guy, and for the first time you were actually attracted to a great guy (rather than the types of guys you were attracted to before), and you got all excited. But you're not compatible. It's a wonderful learning experience really...

 

Maybe that is why I am still single and never did get married. I’ve been taken advantage of by men and so I am extremely defensive and well, maybe too hard nosed sometimes. I think you could be right about me not being a good wife. At the end of my last relationship my ex said I would be a terrible wife. I never forgot it. It still hurts. It may be true if you notice it too.

 

Venus, being a good partner for most is really a learning thing. You weren`t interested in being a good partner for the longest time. I doubt you even thought about what it takes to be a good partner. You were so caught up in being an attractive option, that you didn`t think about being a good partner. FYI...being pretty doesn`t matter at all when it comes to a long term relationship...

 

 

I don’t think I have come across to my bf as “you better step up”- and it’s all about me, me, me.

 

It`s what you`re thinking though, as exemplified by your posts here. And if there`s a disconnect between what you`re thinking and what you`re communicating to your potential life partner (and there is!) that is a huge problem!!

 

I have asked him what he wants and well, I just don’t know how either one of us can ever give each other what we want if we don’t come together in the same city and fully commit to this relationship.

 

So why weren`t you gleeful, thrilled and ecstatic to move to New Orleans to be with him...

 

 

WHAT EXACTLY CAN I BE DOING OR ACTING DIFFERENTLY IN THIS SITUATION?

 

See what I said above about putting the horse before the cart. First, find a guy you`re compatible with, who you share the same values with, and who you share the same relationship goals with. Then, together, decide about your future together. This situation is over.

[GemmaUK]

No, of course he doesn’t know that I was asked out the other night and recently have been frustrated and wishing I could have a real face to face relationship in the same city with someone. I’m not out looking for other men. I am tempted lately, I admit. I would NEVER use that as a manipulation tactic (Gemma) that he must get out here ASAP or I’m going to go out with another guy.

 

I didn't imply you were using it as manipulation.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I was at all.

The thought never even crossed my mind.

 

I am getting to the point where I am agreeing with the poster who suggested being completely upfront about your wishes and time line.

 

I think this is the only way you'll know whether he is in or out.

Even if he does move and for instance works 12-14 hour shifts then I think you'll still feel uncertain and think he isn't doing enough if he is unable to date regularly,

Dating is going to be an expensive add on to his move costs also. I would think CA is more expensive on that front that NOLA.

[MidwestUSA]

This isn't fair. I'm not resentful of him spending money on his kids!! He’s not coming here to see me, he’s coming here to take his kids on a trip to Northern CA and then for Xmas eve and Xmas be in a county a couple hours from where I live where we will be driving to various family members’ places.

 

Venus, these are your words below, the bolding is mine. I can certainly see how Nuevo interpreted it as resentment. At least be honest with yourself.

 

 

"And I think once he told me that he’s spending all kinds of money to make this extravagant trip to CA in a couple weeks for his kids… and that we’d be spending two nights together with his family… all of the family… and the wedding, and that guy… I was finally fed up."

[venusishername]

I agree that you need to articulate that you want to be married and pregnant by October, 2017 (or whatever your timeline is). And then he needs to make a similarly definitive statement such as that he wants to be engaged by June 2017, married sometime in 2019, and not ready to put a timeline on children. Or whatever his response is. THEN you figure out whether you can compromise.

Right now, you toggle between issuing edicts of what he has to do in order to keep you (I've lost count of the number of times you've written something to the effect that he knows he has to do X in order to make you happy) and passively sitting back. Neither of these demonstrate good communication.

OTOH, to a large extent this is theoretical because I also agree with those who say that this relationship is done. He may have been a pleasant diversion, but he's not the guy you imagine for your life and he will always, always, struggle to live up to your aspirations.

I feel like I have already beaten a dead horse by talking about the marriage and children issue. Here and with him. I have very clearly stated that I want to have a marriage and child(ren) within the very near future. His response is, ok, I hear you, I’m open to it, no rush, etc. If I were to say that to him as you are suggesting, I feel I already have done it. It’s going to make him upset I’m sure. Here’s the response that I feel I would get, that I feel I have already gotten. Here’s what he would say, and has said. “We shall see”. If not that, it’s “if we can get along”, “if we are both financially stable”. I feel like if I say something like that, there’s no way that I can put a timeline on it… how can we get married and have a child when we are $(%&^+ long distance?!? It’s a moot point almost. I feel like none of these things matter since we don’t even live in the same region, state, county, or city.

Seriously though. He’s in no rush and wants to know for as certain as he can possibly be, that we are compatible before we get married. I can’t put a timeframe on that. But my general rule is if the relationship is still on after 2 years.. it’s time to tie the knot or break it off. That would be my timeframe. I think his is reasonable. I think mine is reasonable. But people who aren’t in a rush tend to maintain the status quo, which is exactly what is happening. Status quo. Nothing has materialized or changed.

I think you resent this whether you admit it or not.

 

 

 

Venus, why are you fixated on being bad wife material to a guy you aren't going to marry? You're really going to let him fly all the way out to you and beg pathetically to continue the relationship and put a ring that he can't afford on your finger so your life together starts with enormous debt and at least six more months of a long-distance relationship? Is that the story you want to tell your friends? "Well, I was fed up and he didn't meet my standards, but I told him it was my way or the highway so he put a ring on it"? All that would do is guarantee you end up unhappily ever after like all those other people you know.

I say this because I want to be good wife material in general. Someone here said I would be a “poor” choice for a wife and life partner. That makes me feel as if maybe the reason I’m in this position is because I’m not cut out to be a wife. I would like to change that because I want to be one. I think in many ways I’d be a good wife. Hell, my bf has said that a couple times. I think he was referring to the fact that I’m a good cook and a domestic, feminine woman.

 

And excuse me. I’m not going to “let him” fly out here to beg and propose. First of all, he’s NOT going to propose. He might give me a “promise ring” though. He’s not going to propose. He’s not.

He’s COMING OUT HERE TO SEE HIS FAMILY. He’s coming here with his daughter because he wants to travel around Northern CA. I’m actually driving a couple hours from where I live to MEET UP WITH HIM while he’s at family parties. He’s not coming to see me, I feel. I just happen to live in CA. We will have zero time alone (he just told me he can’t come early and see me first, alone due to the cost, time, and he wants to fly out with his daughter as originally planned.)

Lana. He’s not coming to CA to see me, and he’s not going to propose. Please don’t keep saying that.

You've already wasted so much time in this relationship. How much more are you willing to waste?

I know that from the beginning you did not see this as a good fit. I’m doing all I can do now to do my best and put in the best effort I possibly can.

What the---you're asking ME (a stranger on the internet) what YOUR BOYFRIEND wants?! Do you realize how utterly broken your communication is now??

I was being rhetorical. I asked him this morning what it is he wants and what it is that I can do that would make him happy. This is what he said, “I want us to be happy and compassionate and sympathetic towards each other. As simple as that sounds”.

So there we go. I apologized to him for being selfish and impatient lately. He said he understands and it’s ok, he just worries that he isn’t giving me what I need a lot. I asked him what it is I can do differently. I asked him what he wants. He doesn’t require much. He doesn’t ask much of me. His wants are simple, he’s more accepting. He makes this choice, because he loves me and all the other stuff that I worry about doesn’t matter so much, in his mind… if the love is there.. that’s all he seems to want or require.

To be honest, this makes me soften. I know I have been hard nosed, stubborn and sometimes unyielding. I need to practice more compassion towards him and stop being so hardened. I need to practice more love. I did apologize for not being a good girlfriend and not so giving lately. I do need to change that and I will. Because I realize that he has been unhappy too.

Venus,

People at LS are being blunt because you have mentioned over and over the personality quirks and lifestyle traits he has that grind on you. Tigers of his age rarely change their stripes so it's up to you to come to terms with that because those annoyances only get worse with time.

I am afraid that he has dangled the marriage carrot in a passive attempt to placate you and now you're calling him on it. Readers remember that he brought up sourcing rings, bridesmaid choices and whatnot? He isn't stepping up and being the knight in shining armor but rather blowing you off for family that he has his whole life to hang with. It's avoidance of the tough talk he knows is coming.

 

He loves the idea of dating and having sex with a younger, fresher girl, but when push comes to shove he's in no rush to move it forward. He's a good time guy and wants to skip along in the happy place. He now knows that dating a woman your age comes with pressure of this nature. Hence the angst on his part. You both have something the other wants and something the other doesn't want.

 

I would avoid spending time with him and his family until you two have alone time. It's worth another meeting. Why not? He'll be in California. Particularly since you are questioning your love for him. If and when you see him, please take decisive action, perhaps put it on ice if you're at a stalemate Trust your gut. You are unhappy in this relationship and it will be more of the same for a long time...it's not healthy. But...he may surprise you.

 

Otherwise, go on a few dates and enjoy yourself.

What was wrong with the guy who asked you out at the wedding? Did you shut him down because you are in a LDR (albeit shaky) or was there something otherwise wrong with him?

I have to side with what you said, I have thought the same before. So does my father. My dad was very clear that my bf is in no rush and is avoiding commitment and is happy to skip along in a half-commitment with me across the country because I’m young and a trophy to him. Both my parents agree that bf gets the best of both worlds… he can keep his bachelor lifestyle back in LA and have a relationship with me when he feels like it and at his own convenience. I wonder why that is, only some of the men I’ve known (and you) have pointed this out. I wonder why no one else liked your post, when all the other posts get so many likes. I hate to think this is true, I’m not sure of course he’s doing it intentionally… it’s just the underlying possibility…..I see how that could be the case….

I am hurt that he is not willing to or going out of his way to be alone with me during this trip. I’m not sure he’s purposely trying to avoid being alone with me. Seriously though. This trip was never about me. It’s about his kids. That’s great, and I’m happy he can be with both his kids in CA, but I’m still hurt by it. I don’t see any way that we are going to have any time alone at all during the 2 nights he will be in Southern CA.

I like what you said about putting it on ice. That’s kind of what I’m trying to do. I feel like if I don’t speak up, if I didn’t speak up, there would be no incentive to change.

To answer your question about the guy who asked me out. There was nothing wrong with him. I would have gone out with him had I been available and not in a relationship. I was attracted to him, he was funny and we had a good conversation. Plus a friend in common.

Venus, how would you describe your communication style with your bf? How could you improve it?

Well, Kamille. I’m not sure how to answer this appropriately. Our communication style has been over the phone. I think he has trouble listening and being patient sometimes and so do I. But I think overall we have done a decent job considering we are across the country and make a concerted and consistent effort to communicate as clearly and as honestly as possible. I think we communicate well, and lovingly. But there is room for improvement.

Venus, could I ask you what exactly you like about your bf? Not stuff like him actually expressing interest in a relationship with you unlike all those other dudes that only wanted casual dating... but stuff that's actually about him and not the role that any warm body could fill. What is it about his personality, your relationship with him, the experiences you've had together, that makes you want to stay with him?

I like many things about him.. He’s genuine. He’s kind and very loving. Full of life, giving. Sincere. Happy and positive. Handsome and strong. Cares about his family deeply. Makes me feel safe and protected and supported. There are many things that I love about him.

So why weren`t you gleeful, thrilled and ecstatic to move to New Orleans to be with him...

 

 

 

 

See what I said above about putting the horse before the cart. First, find a guy you`re compatible with, who you share the same values with, and who you share the same relationship goals with. Then, together, decide about your future together. This situation is over.

 

Weezy, I liked your post. I wanted to answer your question.But I can’t.

I’m not sure why I wasn’t thrilled about the idea to move to New Orleans. I wanted to be. But I just wasn’t. I’m not sure I know the answer. But ma

I want to give it the best effort I can and right whatever wrongs I’ve made, so at least I can say that I gave it my all.

I wish there was something I could do differently, before deciding to walk away.

 

If you, and others here… are saying it’s over…. I’m just not sure it’s time to make that final decision….

In my heart of hearts I want to make it through this holiday and see how our time goes.. and talk when we can have a heart to heart, be loving and compassionate instead of angry, lonely and frustrated. I want to do that.

[introverted1]

I feel like I have already beaten a dead horse by talking about the marriage and children issue. Here and with him. I have very clearly stated that I want to have a marriage and child(ren) within the very near future. His response is, ok, I hear you, I’m open to it, no rush, etc. If I were to say that to him as you are suggesting, I feel I already have done it. It’s going to make him upset I’m sure. Here’s the response that I feel I would get, that I feel I have already gotten. Here’s what he would say, and has said. “We shall see”. If not that, it’s “if we can get along”, “if we are both financially stable”.

 

Ok, so what do you hear when he says this? What I hear (or read, as the case may be) is that he is NOT on your timeline and does NOT share your goals. He's not willing to shut it down but he's also not willing to commit.

 

I have to side with what you said, I have thought the same before. So does my father. My dad was very clear that my bf is in no rush and is avoiding commitment and is happy to skip along in a half-commitment with me across the country because I’m young and a trophy to him. Both my parents agree that bf gets the best of both worlds… he can keep his bachelor lifestyle back in LA and have a relationship with me when he feels like it and at his own convenience. I wonder why that is, only some of the men I’ve known (and you) have pointed this out. I wonder why no one else liked your post, when all the other posts get so many likes. I hate to think this is true, I’m not sure of course he’s doing it intentionally… it’s just the underlying possibility…..I see how that could be the case….

 

Venus, that is exactly what several of us have been saying! He's happy in the relationship as it stands, he doesn't want/need to progress it the way you do. He'd be willing to have you move into his house (the passive action I referred to previously) but is not prepared to up-end his life to be with you.

 

The only difference I see in what I (and others) have been saying is that sometymeswhy has a slightly more deliberate spin on it (at least, this is how it appears to me). I have been giving your bf the benefit of the doubt in that I don't think he has consciously decided to stall or have the relationship on his terms; I just think it's a function of his age and life stage that he is in no hurry to make a move that will force him to change.

 

I am hurt that he is not willing to or going out of his way to be alone with me during this trip. I’m not sure he’s purposely trying to avoid being alone with me. Seriously though. This trip was never about me. It’s about his kids. That’s great, and I’m happy he can be with both his kids in CA, but I’m still hurt by it. I don’t see any way that we are going to have any time alone at all during the 2 nights he will be in Southern CA.

 

Yes, this ties in to all of the above. I also suspect that he is conflict avoidant in general and knows that alone time with you = come to Jesus talk and he wants to avoid that.