When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

I have very clearly stated that I want to have a marriage and child(ren) within the very near future. His response is, ok, I hear you, I’m open to it, no rush, etc. If I were to say that to him as you are suggesting, I feel I already have done it. It’s going to make him upset I’m sure. Here’s the response that I feel I would get, that I feel I have already gotten. Here’s what he would say, and has said. “We shall see”. If not that, it’s “if we can get along”, “if we are both financially stable”.

 

Yikes, Venus, this is dire. This isn't just "open to it", it's "pretty much no but I know if I say it flat out you'll get upset." I am shocked you've continued the relationship knowing this. Wasn't that the entire point of the come-to-Jesus talk? You were supposed to see if you were on the same page. You aren't. He is clearly not interested in having more children anytime soon if at all, ever.

 

I feel like none of these things matter since we don’t even live in the same region, state, county, or city.

Seriously though.

 

What? Venus, his life priorities aren't going to change when you're in the same city! You think he'd move to California and suddenly want kids?

 

I know that from the beginning you did not see this as a good fit. I’m doing all I can do now to do my best and put in the best effort I possibly can.

 

Do you remember when I said this guy might be the one for you? I do. It's on page 59. Please don't put words in my mouth. I was a big fan when it seemed like this was good and healthy for you, but it doesn't appear to have been that way for a long time. Honestly, I think you are spinning out of control. You broke up with him (you said you weren't going to date him unless he lived in CA and he doesn't live there, so...) but the comment about being a bad wife hit a nerve and now you're desperate to prove it isn't true. Venus, you do not have to "do your best" and "put in the best effort" for a relationship that is clearly not working.

 

You have said over and over (and over and over...) that you think people should know about their relationship in a year. You don't believe people need more than a year to know if they're with the right person. But when October rolled around you weren't ready to move, not at all. What does that say to you?

 

To answer your question about the guy who asked me out. There was nothing wrong with him. I would have gone out with him had I been available and not in a relationship. I was attracted to him, he was funny and we had a good conversation. Plus a friend in common.

 

You were also apparently so taken with him you talked about wanting to see and talk to him again. You are already moving on in your mind whether you want to accept it or not.

 

I want to give it the best effort I can and right whatever wrongs I’ve made, so at least I can say that I gave it my all.

 

You don't have to drive a car until it qualifies for antique plates. You don't have to drive it until it's a miserable experience. You don't have to keep driving it even after it's obvious it will never ever take you to Married With Children Street in Comfortable Lifestyle City. At some point you can realize you're better served with a new car.

Edited December 16, 2016 by lana-banana

[GemmaUK]

In the mental state you are in I would advise against attempting to fake it over Christmas.

Neither of you are happy so you will both be faking it.

Set a plan to meet after and do your own things for Christmas.

[NuevoYorko]

I

I have to side with what you said, I have thought the same before. So does my father. My dad was very clear that my bf is in no rush and is avoiding commitment and is happy to skip along in a half-commitment with me across the country because I’m young and a trophy to him. Both my parents agree that bf gets the best of both worlds… he can keep his bachelor lifestyle back in LA and have a relationship with me when he feels like it and at his own convenience. I wonder why that is, only some of the men I’ve known (and you) have pointed this out. I wonder why no one else liked your post, when all the other posts get so many likes. I hate to think this is true, I’m not sure of course he’s doing it intentionally… it’s just the underlying possibility…..I see how that could be the case….

 

Not many people think this because ... it's outlandish. First, this notion is very insulting to your (ex?) boyfriend and if you believe this, what on earth are you doing with him?

 

I'm sure you are spectacular looking, but a man who can snag a lovely woman such as yourself can certainly snag another one - near by, maybe even younger and not chomping at the bit to get married and have babies when he hasn't even decided he wants to. If he mainly wanted a young trophy, he could go about getting one in a much less taxing fashion.

 

 

I disagree with this poster, your father and your mother 100%. I think he must be very in love with you to deal with all the pressure and demands. I am very confused by your posts, and I bet he's confused a lot of the time too.

 

Another way I disagree with them is this: because he loves you does not necessarily mean that he will give up his whole life, marry and have children with you. That's a fairytale and you'll do yourself a favor if you get over believing it. You don't need someone who loves you "enough" to throw themselves under a bus to prove it to you. You need a person who actively wants the same things out of a relationship that you do.

[MidwestUSA]

Not many people think this because ... it's outlandish. First, this notion is very insulting to your (ex?) boyfriend and if you believe this, what on earth are you doing with him?

 

I'm sure you are spectacular looking, but a man who can snag a lovely woman such as yourself can certainly snag another one - near by, maybe even younger and not chomping at the bit to get married and have babies when he hasn't even decided he wants to. If he mainly wanted a young trophy, he could go about getting one in a much less taxing fashion.

 

 

Wow, I can't believe I missed this trophy talk. Venus, if this is what you believe, and your parents are reinforcing it, why? Why even consider trying anymore?

 

Good lord, even if things worked out, they'll never approve of him if this is how they view him.

 

I have to agree, if he's a trophy hunter, he could find one (or more!) with much less effort, expense, and maintenance. But I don't think that's the case. I do truly believe you and he had something at the start. But as time went on, fundamental differences and priorities became apparent. It happens, and I think had your distance closed more quickly, you'd have saved time and found this out.

 

But to label him a trophy hunter? Think back to the beginning and cut him some slack. Find some fond memories. Did he really seem like that type? Does he now? Or is it just the distance leading to conjecture?

 

I feel sad. For him.

[introverted1]

Yikes - I missed the trophy talk, too.

 

That's kind of nuts, to be honest. Aside from the character assassination implied, the whole point of a trophy gf is to be able to show her off and impress others. Doesn't seem that's what is happening here.

 

I don't think the fact that he is unwilling to leave his current life to gamble on a woman he does not know if he is compatible with means that he is a trophy hunter. It's just a reflection of his status as a guy who has had two significant failed relationships, is currently responsible for kids and a family home, and has established business connections. He's old enough to know that love doesn't conquer all - Nuevo said it perfectly: "You don't need someone who loves you "enough" to throw themselves under a bus to prove it to you. You need a person who actively wants the same things out of a relationship that you do."

[MuddyFootprints]

Someone 'better' is whispering in her ear.

[Sometymeswhy]

I didn't initiate the trophy hunter talk. Venus said her parents used that word. Not me. Allow me to clarify my point.

At his age he is enjoying the fruits of his relationship with a younger woman Good for him. The problem arises when he is confronted with younger women who are hell bent on having children ASAP. This is the trade off. No one said he couldn't score another younger woman in NO or that is the only thing he likes about her. Geesh. Only discussing the particular dynamics in this case.

[Els]

"Trophy hunters" would never want to be in a LDR. I mean, what's the point of a trophy that you can only 'show off' once every 3 months or so? It makes zero sense.

[Leigh 87]

I really really really don't beliebe most women get it all. Sorry.

 

You want the chemistry and butterflies and honeymoon stage (which dissipates and never lasts) but it is a sign you have good chemistry. Bypassing this stage rarely works out well for people like you.

 

You also want a child and marriage very soon within 2 to 3 years maximum.

 

On top of all that, you want a highly compatible guy who is financially responsible.

 

Please pick one of the above 3 areas that you are willing to compromise on. Lanabanana has written about how she has it all with her partner and so therfore you shouldn't settle either. Good for her, but good luck finding a financially savvy and responsible guy, with off the charts chemistry and who is also your best friend and amazingly compatible with you.

 

The leading relationship therapists all say the same thing: pick passion or comfortable. An inbetween scenario is what most couples go for and seems to work for the vast majority, who are very attracted to each other with high compatability but not the I want to rip your clothes off chemistry where it's sparks flying at firates glance.

 

You want kids and a family and financial freedom; you will likely want to stay at home as a mom. MOST Women do.

 

I really think you outa go for a reliable guy who you are into but where the chemistry and excitement of first meeting them isn't off the charts.

 

I chose the passion with a slightly unstable guy who isn't financially responsible but still pays the bills and rent on time every time. But I will never likely be a stay at home mom if we have a child and my podiatry career once I graduate, will need to be amore equal contributer always.

 

I used to be mad at him for not opting to choose insurance for health or his car. He lost his car recently when a lady fell asleep at the wheel and crashed into our house. Bloody he'll right? Well he had no insurance and lost his car. And he doesn't intend to purchase insurance at all as it would mean not affording to have a life beyond staying inside our home or going to the beach once a week. He wants to order pizza occasionally and afford birthday gifts for me and go and see a movie once in a while.

 

So in the end adter much deliberation..... I just acknowledged that I needed to pick passion. And work on the not so hot stuff. Because NO ONE usually gets it all.

 

You can work on in compatabilitits. That's the kicker. Where as 6 or 7 out of 10 chemistry and intensity can't be changed. And it in fact will go down to a 5 in the long run. Where as the 9 or 10 I felt for my boyfriend from the outset will probably lyrics only shrink to a 7 or 8 in the long run.

 

You can fix problems in some cases. But you can't make yourself crazy in love. Nor do most people need to be a head over heels or wanting to rip a partners clothes off. Most people tend to value having a family with a compatible partner who they are still reasonably attracted to; just without THAT FEELING, lol!

 

It is unfortunate thought when you make the commitment to work on issues due to the high chemistry and in lo very feelings. You think it is worthwhile working on the variables you can change. .......AND then you end up loosing the degree of live you started out with.

 

Drastic incompatibilities can make that glue, the love and the best friend feeling dissipate or dissap ear entirely.

 

Just think long and hard about what you are willing to compromise on.

 

Do you NEED kids right now? Can it not wait a few years? You can get fertility treatments..........

 

Just know that I have come to a cross roads in my own relationship. Where I looked at other men and thought man oh man, can I not do better than a dude would is a former addiction of hard drugs and has a bad past? Who I will never likely be totally financialy secure with? I was fully prepared to end it. Then we just...got to a stage where we both felt like we are the right ones for each other and we wanted to work on our shortcomings.

 

We just figured our in compatability things were down to individual flaws we both had. Things we feel very optimistic a out fixing.

 

I mean your guy is financially able to oay the Bulls and isn't reliant on welfare. He has a full time job and is a working adult. He can occasionally afford nice things. And maybe that is the most he will ever be; able to pay the bills most of the time with the birthday gifts and occasional nice thing thrown in.

 

He is who he is. I think your will be hard pressed to find Mr butterflies who is absolutely perfect for you. Anyone who purportedly did themselves is the rare few. Don't assume you will be in this lucky, lucky minority.

 

What some people do is. They work on becoming the lucky minority. They don't get some amazing saint of a partner initially in all areas of their lives but they work towards obtaining a higher degree of compatability.

[venusishername]

Ok, so what do you hear when he says this? What I hear (or read, as the case may be) is that he is NOT on your timeline and does NOT share your goals. He's not willing to shut it down but he's also not willing to commit.

 

Venus, that is exactly what several of us have been saying! He's happy in the relationship as it stands, he doesn't want/need to progress it the way you do. He'd be willing to have you move into his house (the passive action I referred to previously) but is not prepared to up-end his life to be with you.

 

The only difference I see in what I (and others) have been saying is that sometymeswhy has a slightly more deliberate spin on it (at least, this is how it appears to me). I have been giving your bf the benefit of the doubt in that I don't think he has consciously decided to stall or have the relationship on his terms; I just think it's a function of his age and life stage that he is in no hurry to make a move that will force him to change.

 

Yes, this ties in to all of the above. I also suspect that he is conflict avoidant in general and knows that alone time with you = come to Jesus talk and he wants to avoid that.

Thank you for this. I hear you. What I hear when he says those things.... is that he is not opposed to the idea, but is not willing to commit on my timeframe, if at all. There are CONDITIONS to it. "We shall see" has been an MO of his. So. The way I HEAR it is that it is a possibility, he's just not in a timeframe of 2 years marriage and family. It's not something he's opposed to, but something he won't commit to, either. Ok, I see the issue now..

However, does it make sense that I had HOPED, maybe still have some left, that it could be a possibility? He is a good man, we do have something special, had/do, whatever... I mean, I think I want to believe that he isn't flatly opposed to it. He knows how important it is to me, why would he not be honest if he 100% didn't feel the same? I want to be sure I am making myself clear. But to answer your question, that is what I hear when he says this. Reading back what I just wrote... I don't hear "no". I hear "maybe someday if everything works out". I also don't hear "yes, absolutely". So I think that's where I'm getting stuck.

 

I do understand the way you are explaining the other part. It isn't a deliberate or vindictive or malicious and manipulative action, he just isn't in a position that he would want to or be willing to uproot his life to be with me, when he's happy where he's at, comfortable in his roots, lifestyle, etc. I see, it doesn't have any bad connotations. I don't think he is a bad guy or being cruel or taking advantage of me. I see what you mean. Thank you for clarifying.

 

Agreed about the come to jesus talk. He doesn't want to deal with that. In fact, I feel like ever since we had that conversation the other day, he has kind of brushed it aside as if he doesn't want to deal with the reality. And has been acting and contacting me like always.

 

Yikes, Venus, this is dire. This isn't just "open to it", it's "pretty much no but I know if I say it flat out you'll get upset." I am shocked you've continued the relationship knowing this. Wasn't that the entire point of the come-to-Jesus talk? You were supposed to see if you were on the same page. You aren't. He is clearly not interested in having more children anytime soon if at all, ever.

 

 

What? Venus, his life priorities aren't going to change when you're in the same city! You think he'd move to California and suddenly want kids?

 

Do you remember when I said this guy might be the one for you? I do. It's on page 59. Please don't put words in my mouth. I was a big fan when it seemed like this was good and healthy for you, but it doesn't appear to have been that way for a long time. Honestly, I think you are spinning out of control. You broke up with him (you said you weren't going to date him unless he lived in CA and he doesn't live there, so...) but the comment about being a bad wife hit a nerve and now you're desperate to prove it isn't true. Venus, you do not have to "do your best" and "put in the best effort" for a relationship that is clearly not working.

 

You have said over and over (and over and over...) that you think people should know about their relationship in a year. You don't believe people need more than a year to know if they're with the right person. But when October rolled around you weren't ready to move, not at all. What does that say to you?

 

You were also apparently so taken with him you talked about wanting to see and talk to him again. You are already moving on in your mind whether you want to accept it or not.

 

You don't have to drive a car until it qualifies for antique plates. You don't have to drive it until it's a miserable experience. You don't have to keep driving it even after it's obvious it will never ever take you to Married With Children Street in Comfortable Lifestyle City. At some point you can realize you're better served with a new car.

Lana, thank you for being so blunt. Seriously, I need it. I need the real truth here, so thanks for what you said. I'm getting too tired to multiquote your quote.

See my reply above to Introverted. That is how I feel, do you really believe that it is GLARINGLY obvious that he FLAT OUT does not want what I do? Is he dangling the carrot like sometymeswhy said?? I guess it's hard for me to believe that... because he's so family oriented, and I know he does value marriage..... I mean, I wanted to believe that he is gun shy to marry again but wants to again, and he would be open to having another child, "with the right person" because these are the words he has used. Am I really not seeing this? I know you are often right, Lana. Maybe I'm not seeing the forest through the trees. Maybe I'm in denial...maybe I don't want to accept it, and instead I hang to the hope that he will eventually change his mind and be ready and figure out if he thinks I'm the "right person".... I hope I am being clear in the way I'm explaining. I'm kind of a mess this week mentally.

 

Posters were pointing out, as did he, that I was being demanding, one person said I'd be a poor choice for a wife, and I was selfish, only concerned with my own needs, not good at being a partner, was putting way too much pressure and demands, not putting his needs into consideration. So, it made me think over the past couple days. Maybe if I tried to be a better partner, I could attempt to save the relationship. Maybe if I was less demanding, better partner material, less selfish, more in tune and compromising to his needs, etc... maybe then it could work. ( I think this is the part of the stages of grief, the "bargaining"). Denial is the first part. Then bargaining.

I think that's what I'm trying to do. I want to give up so easily and kick myself later, like "crap! If only I had just listened to him, he was going to move here after his contract but just like he said, I "couldn't wait and gave up".

 

 

Because the impression I have been getting from many posters here was that people feel sorry for him because I'm this needy princess or something. It made me stop and think... maybe I could improve in some areas. Because I sure would hate to think that I was a poor choice for a wife, and acted badly, and THAT was the reason the relationship didn't work out. Do you know what I'm saying? I want to do right. I want to be a good partner and considerate and compassionate, and more giving. So I thought I would try that, I suppose maybe it's my way of trying to salvage what I can rather than just give up and flat out end it all without trying my best.

 

I wasn't taken by the guy who asked me out. It was someone else that I didn't even talk to, but my point is, and you mentioned it, that my eyes are already wandering. That's the issue. I'm not sure if it's just because I'm frustrated and lonely.... or the holidays and I'm angry/sad/hurt that my long distance, one year relationship is across the country and I'll see him for 2 days, not alone, and then I'm spending NYE alone, go to weddings alone, go to parties alone, never have my plus one... and meanwhile tonight he's off with his two single guy friends... I mean, am I wrong for thinking.... THIS SUCKS?? I don't mean to be cruel, or selfish in saying this, but I have men around me who ask me out, who live in my city, who are closer to my age and don't have ex wives or kids (Nothing against ex wives or kids) but I mean, they have less ties than he does. Please don't come down on me for saying that, LS. There is nothing wrong with him or that he has kids, or an ex wife. Namely the fact that he's across the fricking country is enough of a hurdle. I mean, I got asked out today too. I say no, I'm not interested.. I am not available. This reminds me of your car analogy, Lana.

 

I have been kind of thinking lately.. "hey, maybe I should start looking around at a new car." I think that's where someone's comment of "something better" is whispering in my ear comes from. I'm not trying to be cruel or selfish. I'm really not. Believe me when I say I truly want/wanted this to work!!! But Lana said it too, don't pin it on me... I'm simply kind of agreeing with her. It sucks though. I don't want it to be this way. I didn't want to start thinking about going on dates with other men. I wanted to have a full on, 100% relationship with him. But he's NOT AVAILABLE.

 

 

Other men are out there, who live in my city. It's tempting. It has recently, twice in one week, been hitting me in the face. All these holiday parties, and the wedding, all the family Christmas cards... I mean, It finally got to me. I absolutely hate having a relationship where I act and feel like I'm single. I mean, in the beginning it was exciting because it was romantic to meet for rendezvous and have the little trips and planning things together. But I'll tell you, when you start going to all your events alone, like all the important stuff... and you go home alone every night.. I mean, it loses all the appeal. I really put in a big chunk of time already, where I fully was willing to do it. I did it. I'm just not willing to do it anymore. Even though I wish it would/could work out....

 

 

Here's where I realize why people say that LDRs have a shelf life. At this point, there is "no rush" for him to move here. EVEN IF that's "the plan" we have come to. I felt so frustrated when posters would ask me, 'don't you know what the plan is, how could you be in the dark, don't you communicate?' Yes, of course we discussed it. He says we beat a dead horse.. But nothing has happened. Nothing has been put in action. Like so many people have said, he has no motivation or rush to uproot his life and move here. Particularly if we both aren't sure we're compatible!!! So sure, talking about a plan is great. It's acting on it that actually counts. I've never seen any action. That's what Lana has been saying. All talk. All talk.

 

I mean, I gave it a year, but man, things haven't changed and they're not going to for god knows how long anymore. The carrot....

 

 

So I mean, yeah. I started thinking recently hey, there are guys here. My guy has been a good man and he has adored me and treated me well. But this isn't a real every day relationship. Someone said it well, we are like islands and we have had this relationship that isn't based in every day reality, other than phone calls. I started to see men around me here, recently... that they are AVAILABLE and well, some of them are interested in me.

Heck, I got asked out today. Twice in one week. Said no, because I'm not interested because I'm involved and still trying to sort this out.

 

And one more thing. You asked me what it said to me that in October I wasn't ready to move. I think the answer is, and the one you're looking for... is at that time, something inside me wasn't sure he was the right person. Not sure if my fears and anxieties had some part in that, not sure if I was being selfish and demanding or entitled, wishing he would prove it instead of me, and "Step up" (being facetious here), not sure if it was a combination...but Lana, the reason I hesitated was in my heart, not in my head. I guess after a year, I wasn't really sure anymore that he could be the right person. You know when you want someone to be, but you just don't know if they just can be? I think that's how I feel here.

 

Not many people think this because ... it's outlandish. First, this notion is very insulting to your (ex?) boyfriend and if you believe this, what on earth are you doing with him?

 

I'm sure you are spectacular looking, but a man who can snag a lovely woman such as yourself can certainly snag another one - near by, maybe even younger and not chomping at the bit to get married and have babies when he hasn't even decided he wants to. If he mainly wanted a young trophy, he could go about getting one in a much less taxing fashion.

 

 

I disagree with this poster, your father and your mother 100%. I think he must be very in love with you to deal with all the pressure and demands. I am very confused by your posts, and I bet he's confused a lot of the time too.

 

Another way I disagree with them is this: because he loves you does not necessarily mean that he will give up his whole life, marry and have children with you. That's a fairytale and you'll do yourself a favor if you get over believing it. You don't need someone who loves you "enough" to throw themselves under a bus to prove it to you. You need a person who actively wants the same things out of a relationship that you do.

 

I should not have used the word 'trophy'. NO, I don't think this about him. Sometymeswhy, thanks for saying what I wanted to say.. this got taken out of context. My bad.

 

I truly don't think he is a bad guy or is out for a trophy or deliberately manipulating me. I agree with Lana and Sometymeswhy and Introverted, it's just an easy situation for him, and he has no motivation to change it. It's just nice to talk about. Talk is cheap! Ha, that's my motto lately.

 

I think he is a good man, he is genuine, kind, loving, caring, sincere, positive, etc. I don't think anything BAD about him. I really nitpick here sometimes because well, it's in my head and I admit the distance has made me bitter and angry sometimes. This sucks. Even if he was perfectly suited to me and we were a match made in heaven, I would still have anger and bitterness about the distance alone. Not sure if any of you have ever been in my shoes but man, I'll tell you.. you start getting pissed off that you go home alone every night or you always go to weddings and parties alone when you actually have a partner. It is painful. Perhaps I've started nitpicking at him in a way to funnel my frustration about the distance. I never did that with any of my other long term relationships, or anyone I dated, for that matter. Long distance sucks. Don't do it, unless it is for a short time with a pre-determined timeframe with concrete action to back that up.

 

Then I think. If it has already been so painful for me now, if I were to continue this... It would build up and up and explode, kind of like it did the other day.. and I would have lost more months... another year... I can't do that!!

 

 

I mean, despite the fact that he's a good man, and he values me and loves me, and I do think he's great in so many ways, damn, I mean what kind of messed up situation is this? I'm unavailable to other men and have taken myself off the market for a guy who lives across the country, isn't really interested (Lana chimes in here) in more kids, isn't really prioritizing marriage or family, but lives for the "vacations" and is perfectly content the way things are. Because it's LESS PRESSURE. Pressure again. He doesn't want the pressure. He doesn't want the day to day like I do, at least not with me it seems. I'm pissed. We have 2 days to see each other, if we do, (I'm still willing), and that is all he is willing and able to give. 2 days.

This is BS. I can't have a 2 day relationship. I can't have a relationship based on vacations and phone calls. Not for a year. Not for more than a year. I just can't. Period. As much as it hurts, I think it would hurt me more to continue on like this. I'm trying to bargain and rationalize.. that's me saying this:

 

 

I could give it the benefit of the doubt, wait patiently, be a good wife material, be kind and compassionate, more giving and less stubborn... and wait for his contract to be over, "in six months". I could do that, and then I could say I did everything I could. This is where I'm struggling. Have I fallen short and should I try harder or is this going nowhere? Lana chimes in again... hit me with a 2x4 people. Seriously. I need all the bluntness you got, even though you're strangers on the internet. I ask the same out of my friends.

Wow, I can't believe I missed this trophy talk. Venus, if this is what you believe, and your parents are reinforcing it, why? Why even consider trying anymore?

 

Good lord, even if things worked out, they'll never approve of him if this is how they view him.

 

I have to agree, if he's a trophy hunter, he could find one (or more!) with much less effort, expense, and maintenance. But I don't think that's the case. I do truly believe you and he had something at the start. But as time went on, fundamental differences and priorities became apparent. It happens, and I think had your distance closed more quickly, you'd have saved time and found this out.

 

But to label him a trophy hunter? Think back to the beginning and cut him some slack. Find some fond memories. Did he really seem like that type? Does he now? Or is it just the distance leading to conjecture?

 

I feel sad. For him.

 

I don't think badly of him. I truly don't. I retract anything I wrote or any misgiven word I used that would make anyone believe that. I don't have a bad word about him. He's not perfect, but I think he's got so many great qualities too. I feel badly that I ever put him in a negative light, or used words that would reflect badly on him. There's nothing wrong with him and he's not a bad guy or a trophy hunter.

 

 

I think what my dad, and I believe Sometymeswhy was trying to say also... is that he's not motivated to change the way things are because he doesn't have to alter his own life and lifestyle, he just has a girl across the country who has committed herself to him and isn't seeing anyone else, that he can see on "vacations" and he can avoid the "pressure" and responsibility of an everyday relationship. He also is gun shy to make a commitment beyond that. That is what my dad was saying. The word "trophy" was terribly misinterpreted. I hope I have cleared things up.

 

Guys, I need to sign off now. Thank you all for your insights, and advice. And time spent. This is greatly helpful.

I know there are differences, lifestyle incompatibilities, (I think, pretty sure, not 100% convinced, still on the fence that they are fundamentally opposed) nothing malicious, no trophy hunting, nothing disrespectful. I know I have acted like a less than great girlfriend lately. I know I have put some pressure on, I know I have made him feel pressured. I don't want to look back and go, "Dang, that could have been my chance and he would have loved me and we could had a life together.. had I only been more compromising, a better partner, and been more compassionate to his wants and needs". I don't want to find myself alone and in this position or single entirely in another year!! It could happen though...and that friggin makes me sad. Is this my chance? Should I try and make this work? Should I try and hold out.... to see if he will really follow through with coming after the work? Wasn't that the 'plan'?

If he moves here and we are getting along and things are working out then will he start wanting to get married and kid(s) very soon? Didn't he say he's open to the idea? He didn't say "no". Lana? Help me out here.

 

I've had very little sleep and way too much wine last night and was hung over half the day. He called me a couple times today and we talked briefly. He's out with two single guy friends running around town, across the country. Here I am, writing to strangers on the internet, actually happy to be home alone on a free night amidst this Christmas madness and plans....

 

This sucks. I'm all about working together as a team and being kind and loving and understanding in a relationship and wanting the other person to be happy and doing what it takes to make that person happy and being considerate and respectful. But I would advise ANYONE to not engage in a LDR if you want to have a fully committed, 100% every day face to face real relationship.

 

 

I feel so unfulfilled lately. I realized that when I noticed my eye started to wander. I HATE to think I acted like poor wife material or selfish, needy and demanding. So I guess I'm trying to redeem myself by stopping that behavior.

 

 

The bottom line is this- I would hate to think this relationship failed because I gave up too soon and wasn't kind, loving, and giving. Also, I struggle with the fact that he says he wants to move out here and is working on that, after the contract is over. Ok, so I want to believe him. I also want to believe that he is not opposed to, open to marriage and child in the future, if everything is in line. So I want to believe that we can make this work. I want to, because I do love him and we do have something special. I would be very sad without his light in my life.

But, at the same time, as you can see, I'm getting fed up, tired, wandering eye, bitter, frustrated, angry.... I mean.....I've wanted to give this the benefit of the doubt. I truly have wanted to. I really do think I have given this the benefit of the doubt. I think I have given it sufficient time to know that it's not going to work. I want to trust myself more, because I think I already know. I just am having a very hard time accepting it.

Edited December 17, 2016 by venusishername

[NuevoYorko]

However, does it make sense that I had HOPED, maybe still have some left, that it could be a possibility? He is a good man, we do have something special, had/do, whatever... I mean, I think I want to believe that he isn't flatly opposed to it. He knows how important it is to me, why would he not be honest if he 100% didn't feel the same? I want to be sure I am making myself clear. But to answer your question, that is what I hear when he says this. Reading back what I just wrote... I don't hear "no". I hear "maybe someday if everything works out".

 

Just LISTEN to him and BELIEVE what he says! Which is the bolded; neither "I'm absolutely opposed to it," or "yes, I promise to marry you and start making babies within one year." He is not saying "no." But you are not open to "maybe," which he IS saying.

 

Also, he's not dangling any carrots. He "might." He is being honest. If he comes to the point where he knows absolutely that he will never do what you want and need, he will probably tell you.

 

Have that "talk" and just lay it out there as I suggested in another post: straight up, tell him what you've told us - Marriage and babies within one year or it's over. There is no "might' possible there, it's yes, or no. You will get the answer you need.

 

But why would you want to have a marriage and family with a person whose arm you had to twist so hard to get that?

 

 

 

he just isn't in a position that he would want to or be willing to uproot his life to be with me, when he's happy where he's at, comfortable in his roots, lifestyle, etc. I see, it doesn't have any bad connotations.

You're doing the exact same thing. Why is he under such scrutiny for it?

 

 

Posters were pointing out, as did he, that I was being demanding, one person said I'd be a poor choice for a wife, and I was selfish, only concerned with my own needs, not good at being a partner, was putting way too much pressure and demands, not putting his needs into consideration.

 

I was one who said you exhibit bad partnership behavior when you refuse to HEAR what your man is telling you straight up, which is "maybe someday" and "two year engagement, maybe." You're in a relationship, you are supposed to honor each other with respectful communication. Otherwise, a good relationship is not possible, even if you live next door to each other.

 

 

So, it made me think over the past couple days. Maybe if I tried to be a better partner, I could attempt to save the relationship. Maybe if I was less demanding, better partner material, less selfish, more in tune and compromising to his needs, etc... maybe then it could work.

 

Because the impression I have been getting from many posters here was that people feel sorry for him because I'm this needy princess or something. It made me stop and think... maybe I could improve in some areas. Because I sure would hate to think that I was a poor choice for a wife, and acted badly, and THAT was the reason the relationship didn't work out. Do you know what I'm saying? I want to do right. I want to be a good partner and considerate and compassionate, and more giving. So I thought I would try that, I suppose maybe it's my way of trying to salvage what I can rather than just give up and flat out end it all without trying my best.

 

Um ... this is really spinning out.

 

Yes, you come off as a princess. You seem extremely demanding. Yes, you "could improve in some areas" - no maybe about it. Don't take that personally. We all have all kinds of flaws and need to keep working on ourselves and being accountable.

 

This really isn't about your flaws, or his. It's very simple. You are 100% solid on MUST BE MARRIED AND HAVE BABY WITHIN A YEAR. Working on yourself, being more understanding, trying to salvage, etc. etc. etc. is not going to have one iota of influence on getting this guy to where you are on that stuff.

 

I don't mean to be cruel, or selfish in saying this, but I have men around me who ask me out, who live in my city, who are closer to my age and don't have ex wives or kids (Nothing against ex wives or kids) but I mean, they have less ties than he does. Please don't come down on me for saying that, LS. There is nothing wrong with him or that he has kids, or an ex wife. Namely the fact that he's across the fricking country is enough of a hurdle. I mean, I got asked out today too. I say no, I'm not interested.. I am not available.

 

Look at the title of your thread. You have been here for a while, gone out with many guys, this is the one that stuck. You can be available for flings or whatever with any number of guys and that won't necessarily bring you any closer to your goal.

 

Seriously, I think you should go to a matchmaking service. I am not being facetious, a relative of mine did this and it resulted in marriage. You can get paired with men who want to get married and have children quickly and not waste time on those who don't. I really do understand your frustration and loneliness, but guys asking you out is not necessarily going to equal no more going to weddings or spending your holidays single, and you know that.

[GemmaUK]

So after all this time it sounds like you are becoming aware that he is not the man for you.

 

It seemed to me that when you were on for moving there you were stalling, not saving for that etc. You decided a month or so back you would move in January but all of that and preparing for it went nowhere,

 

The idea of him moving to you you are happier with but you have no consideration for his needs or needed timeline at this point.

 

You appear to resent and distrust this guy more than you love him. Being long distance you should be wanting to rip his clothes off as you only see each other sporadically.

If you ain't feeling that then this is not going to work. Not for either of you.

 

I spent a Christmas with a man I knew I couldn't be with - only found out after it was set in place - it al became too late to cancel - it was a horrific time with him! Totally horrific!

The only 'pleasant' I have from it now is that his family were nothing like he described and they were absolutely lovely!

I learned a lot that few days. I learned a lot about him.

 

I knew for absolute sure I didn't want to be with him any longer - it just took some time to get away.

 

Maybe go for this Christmas - see what he is like but talk to those around you too.

I don't think you will be in a place of wanting this RS any longer and you know already you don't.

Who knows though - something might change.

 

The end line is you cannot force what is not there.

[introverted1]

Venus, the devil is not in the details here - it's on the surface. I can imagine you reading our comments and looking back to exactly how you said X or Y on page whatever so you can debate the details.

 

Fundamentally, you and your bf want different things. I think he would enjoy having a steady woman in his life. But realistically, his baby days are long gone and now he has two grown children, at least one of whom he has a difficult relationship with. I doubt he's in any hurry to start all over again with sleepless nights, diapers, and all the heavy lifting of co-parenting...

 

Maybe he's been a bit of a coward, or maybe he is just deluding himself, by not clearly telling you that his "maybe" is much closer to a No than to a Yes. I am pretty sure that any parents reading this thread know that "We'll see" is code for "not happening"!

 

The bottom line is:

 

You are a woman with many attractive qualities. Yes, you have room for improvement (as we all do). If you are guilty of anything in this relationship, it has been that you seem to believe that if he loves you enough, his goals will fall in line with your own.

 

He is a man with many attractive qualities. Yes, he has room for improvement (as we all do). If he is guilty of anything in this relationship, it has been in not being more specific about what he sees for the future. He has likely been enamored enough that he knows that if he told you a child was off the table, the entire relationship would go up in smoke.

 

Venus, there is nothing wrong with having relationship goals and moving on from people who can't meet them. You don't need to prove that you are good wife material (whatever that is) or that you gave it your all. Focus on your goals and how you can meet them. Not by badgering this guy into submission but by finding a guy who wants the same things you do!

[SleeplessIn]

Venus, you've also said -- a few times -- that although you want a child of your own, you want a good loving marriage more than you want a child of your own. So I'm curious ... if this guy told you he wants *you* but is not so sure (and can't promise) that he's willing to father another child, would you go for him or would that now be a Deal Breaker?

 

Also, it crossed my mind that maybe the reason he's doing this trip to bring his daughter along to CA for Christmas is a step toward him making the move to CA next year. If his daughter doesn't know these relatives very well, and if she's not so keen about moving to CA, then possibly his plan for the move includes getting her more used to the idea by having her spend some time with these relatives, see a bit of the state, etc. If that's the case, then although he might not have "alone time" with you on the agenda, his holiday plans are in fact a step toward closing the distance between you. It could be a wise move on his part to do it this way.

[Imajerk17]

I see. Well, no, of course I don’t communicate to him the way I do here. This has been my outlet. LS knows so much more than he does, trust me.

 

venus, does your boyfriend have any idea of the extent of your anxiety, about how much you spin?

 

The communication between the two of you seems awful. You may talk a lot. It seems that you and he never discuss anything all the way to a mutually satisfying conclusion though. Meanwhile, the people on this forum are trying to fill the void by trying to interpret what he might have meant by saying this and doing that, whether he is stalling or whether your expectations are unreasonable, and so on and so forth. You're getting a million slightly different opinions here. This is crazy!

 

All these plans up in the air clearly isn't working for you. Ironically, you'd sound much more confident and NON-needy if you told him calmly that the way things are now isn't working for you, and that the two of you need to come up with a *definite* plan of action. As in, you move to LA in (say) March and he puts up your moving expenses and first, second, and last months' rent.

 

It's Put Up Or Shut Up time. The first, primary thing that should be discussed is you living in the same place together, and the second thing is whether he can see himself getting married to you within (say) 18 months.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Imajerk17

[eightytwenty]

I think in this day and age. I think your requirements are a bit much.

 

Need to make sure y'all can even handle a relationship before marriage and kids need to be brought in. And who's to say even with a marriage that it would work.

[Eighty_nine]

I would ask yourself if your conviction not to live together before marriage is important enough to you to give up this relationship because of it. I think 'values' and certain stances about things are at times, arbitrary. Each situation is different- in my opinion, it is always a mistake to be inflexible, especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships. I suspect he'd like to live with you at this point, and it could very well lead to marriage, but you're putting a barrier up to that. Just make sure it is worth it to you.

[Weezy1973]

To me it seems like he's saying:

 

"Let's wait to see if we're compatible before making a huge commitment."

 

And you're saying:

 

"I want marriage and kids soon. Full stop."

 

His reasoning is very good. Yours is quite flawed. You should want to get married AFTER you find a man that you want to spend the rest of your life with. The man should drive your desire to get married. You should want to have kids AFTER you find a life partner that you see would make a great co-parent.

 

Thanks to his wait and see attitude, you are going to be able to dodge a bullet, and not marry a man that is incompatible with you. And you are incompatible. Even if the only incompatibility is with money (and it isn't the only one), that's a huge one and definitely a great reason to not move forward.

 

And make no mistake, you are on the road to breaking up. When you still love someone, and there hasn't been any egregious behaviour (ex. cheating), break ups often follow this route. Back and forth for awhile, until finally the bandaid just gets pulled. You are in the back and forth stages...

[venusishername]

Fundamentally, you and your bf want different things. I think he would enjoy having a steady woman in his life. But realistically, his baby days are long gone and now he has two grown children, at least one of whom he has a difficult relationship with. I doubt he's in any hurry to start all over again with sleepless nights, diapers, and all the heavy lifting of co-parenting...

Maybe he's been a bit of a coward, or maybe he is just deluding himself, by not clearly telling you that his "maybe" is much closer to a No than to a Yes. I am pretty sure that any parents reading this thread know that "We'll see" is code for "not happening"!

The bottom line is:

You are a woman with many attractive qualities. Yes, you have room for improvement (as we all do). If you are guilty of anything in this relationship, it has been that you seem to believe that if he loves you enough, his goals will fall in line with your own.

He is a man with many attractive qualities. Yes, he has room for improvement (as we all do). If he is guilty of anything in this relationship, it has been in not being more specific about what he sees for the future. He has likely been enamored enough that he knows that if he told you a child was off the table, the entire relationship would go up in smoke.

Venus, there is nothing wrong with having relationship goals and moving on from people who can't meet them. You don't need to prove that you are good wife material (whatever that is) or that you gave it your all. Focus on your goals and how you can meet them. Not by badgering this guy into submission but by finding a guy who wants the same things you do!

I want to believe that this is all 100% true and therefore I am making the right decision with no doubt or regret.

If what you say is true in its entirety, (I know other posters say he’s saying “maybe” and not “no”) but I think the idea is that he doesn’t actively want or is available for what I want. It seems to me that he is more satisfied with keeping the status quo and having a part-time girlfriend to have vacations with rather than have a wife and family. I could be wrong but when I brought that up to him the other day he didn’t protest or tell me otherwise. As you and others have said, he has little motivation to change his life because his priorities are not the same as mine…. Or so I need to believe.

I can’t say for sure that he no way wants another child or wants marriage again. I think he does want marriage but is not really in the same place as I am as far as being ready. He was divorced a couple years ago and I can tell he’s very sad about it still.

Thank you, Introverted.

All these plans up in the air clearly isn't working for you. Ironically, you'd sound much more confident and NON-needy if you told him calmly that the way things are now isn't working for you, and that the two of you need to come up with a *definite* plan of action. As in, you move to LA in (say) March and he puts up your moving expenses and first, second, and last months' rent.

It's Put Up Or Shut Up time. The first, primary thing that should be discussed is you living in the same place together, and the second thing is whether he can see himself getting married to you within (say) 18 months.

I don’t think the moving conversation *me moving to LA is now out of the question, by the way* is going to matter. It doesn’t change the underlying issues that are there. I agree that getting to know someone and being compatible is very important and necessary. But we don’t and haven’t even lived in the same time zone for the entirety of our relationship. And well, you know, I think deep down neither one of us ever really wanted to move. I think he likes CA, but who doesn’t?! A lot of people talk about how great it would be to live here. It doesn’t mean they actually move to CA.

And you know, I realized I’m not willing to wait (and there’s too much water under the bridge now) indefinitely for him to finally move here. Heck, if he did, he may not even move to the same county as me!! And then we’d still be long distance. I think what I really need and want is someone who can be and is FULLY AVAILABLE and who wants the same things I do. He is not fully available and he probably doesn’t want the same things I do, and if he does they aren’t on my timeframe of within a year or so.

Thanks to his wait and see attitude, you are going to be able to dodge a bullet, and not marry a man that is incompatible with you. And you are incompatible. Even if the only incompatibility is with money (and it isn't the only one), that's a huge one and definitely a great reason to not move forward.

And make no mistake, you are on the road to breaking up. When you still love someone, and there hasn't been any egregious behaviour (ex. cheating), break ups often follow this route. Back and forth for awhile, until finally the bandaid just gets pulled. You are in the back and forth stages...

Makes sense.

I think you are right. Thanks for reminding me about the money issue. It has been a red flag since the beginning. A couple things happened that I didn’t mention here as far as that part, but all along I’ve been having reservations. Lately I’ve realized that I need a man who is solid and secure and responsible. Consistent. Those qualities are good husband and father material, and that is what I’m in the market for. He is great and kind and loving but he isn’t great husband and father material as far as stability and consistency. There’s a reason women seek out men who are like that and now I’m one of them. I didn’t used to be.

This is a break up. Or for now, it is for certain a break. Usually separations come before a break up, and in any event I think it’s best to take a break or a breather before any final, certain decisions are made. I feel like it is coming to an end. I think the events and emotions of last week (starting at the wedding) showed me that I’m no longer happy in the relationship, namely the circumstances of the relationship. It’s been very hard for me because I do love him a lot, and this is killing me and it’s heartbreaking. He didn’t do anything wrong and I really have wished this could work out. We have been talking and it is very painful but I am ready to move on here in my own city. I kind of still would like to keep the lines open and if he does come here, someday, after all, we could revisit possibly. I think the bottom line is that I’m not going to sit around and wait indefinitely for him to figure things out to move here. I told him that when I was thinking to move to LA I did have a clear timeframe. Whether or not I wanted to really move is another story. He throws it in my face lately that “Why can’t you wait 6 months”… but I remind him he’s been saying that for a long time now. And I told him that if he makes a decision, and follows through with it, that’s what really hasn’t happened all along. To talk about it isn’t enough. And I asked him today if he could give me a definite time frame. And he said he couldn’t. He said now that I broke up with him why would he bother coming out to CA at all? I still reminded him that I would be interested in dating him IF he lived here. And he said he’s not sure if that can happen, who knows how long, etc.

 

He was upset that I told him I wouldn’t be spending the night with him up at his family’s house this weekend, as was the original plan. We agreed to meet privately and exchange gifts (my idea, he said he agreed). I told him under the circumstances I don’t think that we should be spending time with each others’ families and I can’t spend the night with him. If I’m saying I can’t date him unless we live in the same city, I need to honor that.

As much as this is killing me and hurting me, I am very interested now in being open to meeting and dating men in my own city. It doesn’t mean I don’t still love him. But I must put an end to this long distance part time relationship.

 

I can see now that he has no clear and definite goal or plan as far as making a move out here, he says even if he did he wouldn’t necessarily live in my county. So he would move here but still live an hour or more away. It’s like- WTF? Am I really a priority in his life? Is the relationship really a priority or is he just satisfied to have it on his own terms? That’s what it seems to me.

I feel terrible because we are both going through a lot of emotions, and we talked calmly yesterday but were very heated today. He refuses to talk about it, the core issues, and says I’ve been saying it over and over, stop talking about it, and it’s just pointless. This hurts so badly, you guys.

On another note, I met a guy through a mutual friend at lunch the other day. He came over to say hello to her and we had immediate attraction. This was the third time this week a man has asked me out. It started at the wedding last Sunday. I get asked out occasionally but not this often. I wonder if I’m putting out an available vibe. I want to be available. I want to date a man in my own city who wants the same things I do. He asked for my number and I gave it to him but told him I am ending a long distance relationship and I am not totally available right now for a full blown thing and would like some time to get through this, but I told him I would like to be available soon.

After talking for a short time, he volunteered the information that he wants kids really soon and he has focused on his career for so long he is ready to be a father now. Well, if that didn’t show me how glaringly obvious it was that my bf wanted something totally opposite, I saw there is a HUGE difference between “YES, ABSOLUTELY” and “we’ll see how it goes, if we are more financially stable”. I want a man (like the one I just met) who says, “I have my career and life under control and my next short term goal is to be a father.” Bingo! I couldn’t believe my ears. I guess this is what an “I’m ready” sounds like from a man. In any event, he has a lot of other attractive qualities too so I am looking forward to seeing more of him. I’m not ready to get involved right now but in the near future I would like to be available to men who are very sure, very sure *like I am* of the things they want. We even talked about living together for marriage (he was talking with my gf about his ex, who she also knew. I think I asked him if they lived together and he said he was strongly against living together before marriage, because he felt it was a cop out and skirting and postponing commitment. He said if you are living together you are actually cheating yourselves when you should wait until marriage to have all those benefits. Dang. Meeting that guy was a really big eye opener to me. I guess I really needed that. He appears to be available, (he lives in my city), he has the same values I do as far as commitment and family, and he was very straightforward that he wanted children, very soon.

 

Like I said, I am still dealing with tons of emotions and my current relationship is still in its final stages. I would say that now we are “separated”. I told him I can’t date him anymore unless we live in the same city. And I won’t be spending the night with him this weekend, so I am ending the romantic aspect of our relationship. We can still talk it out, I still think I would be willing to see if he does in fact make moves to come here. But now I don’t really see he will. I could be wrong, he may do it… someday.

I can see what you mean very clearly now. I can’t make him want what he doesn’t want. Even if he loves me. I also can’t change what is important to me and what I value. I understand if he doesn’t want to leave his hometown. In the end, even though his intentions have been good, maybe we just wanted different things.

 

As it turns out, my gf invited that guy to a dinner party that I had RSVP’d to. I didn’t know he was coming until she told me he RSVP’d too. I asked her if he knew I would be there and she said yes. So, I will have a chance to talk more to him tonight. I’m nervous, and I’m not ready to be dating someone else yet. But I have told my bf clearly that I can’t date him unless we live in same city, county, friggin region. And so that means (implied) that I am available to meet and date other men. I don’t want to mention other people, but if I’m not sleeping with him and we’re not committed to each other anymore, and we both have dropped our plans to move to each others’ city, I’m no longer his girlfriend, the way I see it.

 

There is a part of me that wishes he would just make a plan to move here, and just finally follow through with that so we COULD date in the same city . It’s been too long, and it’s still indefinite. That’s not good enough for me anymore. So I have to end the romantic aspect of our relationship. Maybe we could still be friends.

[Imajerk17]

So you're going to 'get to know' this new guy because you've 'already broken up in your heart' with your (ex?)-boyfriend, until one of you--you or the boyfriend--feels brave enough to actually rip off the band-aid and end it officially? That's not cool on your part venus. End it properly with your boyfriend first BEFORE you start talking with other men.

 

ETA: Or maybe you already have broken up properly. From your last post it isn't really clear.

 

Meanwhile if this was a breakup I agree w Weezy1973's post. He dodged a bullet as much as you did. You avoided getting seriously invested with a guy who isn't responsible enough, and HE avoided getting invested with a woman who is so much on the marriage-and-babies train that she's gonna try to rope in the next dude who came along whether or not they know each other that well or not. You sounded hell-bent on marriage and babies soon and yet you didn't seem willing enough to find solutions and compromises either. For example in your most recent post: Your area in SoCal is expensive venus, maybe if he moved he would HAVE to be an hour away because he couldn't afford to live so nearby and still have steady work.

 

Yes, this relationship seemed doomed from the start. You still may want to do some soul-searching on how your communication style didn't serve either of you (see my above previous post too).

Edited December 20, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Kamille]

I started reading this thread on a day off. I kept seeing it pop up and was curious about a thread that had so many pages.

 

Throughout, people occasionally suggested you bring things off with LA and keep looking for men locally.

 

As such, I think this is a good decision.

 

But no, the fact that you are both allowed to date others tonight is not "implied" in you telling him you can't continue dating him unless he moves.

[Els]

Venus. You have clearly already checked out. Your bf moving or not moving isn't going to change that. Please do the decent thing and break up with him already. Do NOT dangle the "well if you moved here now then we could continue dating" carrot in front of him. This relationship is a lost cause and you know it - please do not be so selfish as to allow and even encourage your bf to uproot his life to move to be with you when you're already looking for other men.

[losangelena]

So ... if you knew you wanted to be with a family-minded local man, why did you choose to stay with a man who was neither of those things for so long?

[Leigh 87]

So ... if you knew you wanted to be with a family-minded local man, why did you choose to stay with a man who was neither of those things for so long?

 

Because... she searched for years for local men who were as into her as she was into them?

 

When it takes YEARS to feel enough of a spark with a compatible person, you tend to fight for it to work, to a reasonable degree. You don't just throw away true feelings with someone you feel COULD be compatible enough to make it work....

 

Most people end up settling down with a person who is more into them then they are or VICE VERSA. Where as people like Venus as want it all, which is super hard to find and hence her current predicament.

[NuevoYorko]

 

Most people end up settling down with a person who is more into them then they are or VICE VERSA. Where as people like Venus as want it all, which is super hard to find and hence her current predicament.

I don't think you're up to date on this thread. She has broken up with the guy she's been writing about, and has found another man she's interested in who wants to have babies right away. It looks like she's going to "have it all," and very quickly, too.