When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

I don’t know if he’s religious. Do men who want kids and don’t want to live together before marriage have to be religious? I’m an atheist. I want kids and I don’t agree with living together before marriage. What does religion have to do with it? Nothing.

To be honest, the fact that he said that is seriously the least of my worries right now.

I think what he was saying, in that context of the conversation, is that he has been focusing on his career for so long that he is ready to have children in the near future. I don’t see anything loaded or socially inappropriate about that.

 

This is an unusually defensive response and is snippy to the point of being irrational. Why are you so bothered? I asked because I'm quite familiar with the exact language he used, and would have been surprised if it was coming from a nonreligious person. I am curious and a little concerned that anyone's reaction to "I just got out of a messy long-term, long-distance relationship" would be "Cool, I want babies, drinks Y/N?" I am with losangelena: the best thing you can do for yourself and others is not to date for a while.

 

But I also asked because your answers to direct questions tend to be more telling than your pages and pages of spin. Venus, I hate to say this, but I generally don't believe your analysis and interpretation of events.

 

Why do you think it's so hard to explain yourself to people in this thread? Why are so many people confused? You are constantly saying one thing and doing another. You handwave and rewrite history to cast yourself in the best possible light. Most frustrating of all, you make posts where it seems like you really get it and finally understand what we've been saying, only to swing back in the opposite direction a week later.

 

Do you remember back in the days of A, M and R---all men who you were keenly interested in for a serious relationship, and all of whom rejected you---when you tried to write them off as flings you were ambivalent about? Even with page after page of your posts about how much you liked them and how desperate you were for them to date you seriously, you insisted it didn't mean anything. So many of us were so baffled we rage-quit the thread. I can see similar reactions here unless you actually do some soul-searching and come to honest conclusions about yourself.

 

The question is why you feel the need to be dishonest with yourself. I think it may be because you would rather invent fictions than confront the reality of being 33 and single (which is hardly a death sentence). I think you want to have other reasons that can't be blamed on you. It is probably easier to say "oh, we wanted different things" than "I have extremely poor judgment and communication skills". And yes, your communication skills are extremely poor. You apparently never had a serious conversation with your ex about what you really wanted from the relationship until now, when you should have had it around the six-month mark. You continued to ignore and willfully misunderstand everything he said that indicated he wasn't committed. Instead you heard what you wanted to hear and tried to convince yourself of something that was never true.

 

You continue to hint at obvious things without saying them. Like "I'm really hurt that my ex didn't love me enough to move and be with me", or "it sucks that he didn't want to fight for the relationship because that makes me feel like I'm not worth fighting for". While both of these are problematic in their own way, they are honest and understandable. Instead you are parroting our own words back at us, which is good on some level but makes me worry that you haven't really taken it to heart. I've been in this thread long enough to have seen it before.

 

When I see in your post "I think what he was saying is..." and "in the context of the conversation..." my red flags went up. It's not clear what he said, but you are already back at work spinning it into something favorable. You haven't shown that you can hear and interpret things in an honest way. I know you can, eventually. You just have to do the self-work first.

 

Take care of YOU, Venus. Not this guy, the next guy or anyone else. Think long and hard about what has prevented you from successful relationships, what decisions you make, and what's happening inside that keeps you from your goals. Think about the ken you go after and how you interact with them. What are you saying and doing? Do your words line up with your actions? What would you have done differently if you could try again?

 

It's not a race. You can get back out there when you're truly ready. Just remember the best ally you can have in any relationship is yourself. If you can't love, trust and understand yourself, how can anyone else?

[clia]

I know I need to make sure there is closure. I talked to him today and he seems to be accepting and in agreement with me that the relationship wouldn’t work….

I brought up the kid issue again. I told him that I think there are other factors beyond the distance that would prevent this from working out. I said I want my own kids, and he has grown kids and doesn’t really want more, is that right? And he said he thinks I should go find someone who wants that and will commit to me completely because I am a lovely woman and I should go after what I want. He isn’t saying that he wants the same things I do. He’s saying he can’t give me what I am looking for. I hope I am understanding him correctly.

We just had a heated conversation. I feel terribly that this all happened now, before Christmas. I hate to think I am hurting him. I’m hurting too.

I want to be very sure that I’m not misunderstanding him. I asked him again, did you plan to move to CA in a specific timeframe? He gets really angry that I keep talking about that. He already told me he can’t commit to a specific date. I told him that if he had given me a specific timeframe in the near future, I would have wanted to wait and see. But I was very clear, just this morning… that if he wasn’t willing to close the distance for an indefinite period of time… then I am not willing to wait and that I would like to be available to other men now.

 

I do not understand why you are even still discussing him moving to California, when it seems you have both agreed that the relationship is not going to work and you want different things. Why on Earth would he move to California now?

 

And honestly, the fact that there is still all this confusion about what he wants vs. what you want is absolutely mind boggling given that a couple months ago you were planning to move to NOLA and then he was planning to move to CA. Apparently both of you were willing to uproot your lives and move cross country without even having a serious discussion about what you both wanted? I can't even wrap my brain around how strange that is.

 

Anyway, all this talk sounds exhausting. Just cut the cord.

[MidwestUSA]

Aww, cut Venus some slack. She loves him and wanted to give him once last chance to fight for her and he didn't.

He told her to find someone willing to fully commit since clearly he is not. She wants a husband and children and he has equivocated on that regard and has no sense of urgency on living in the same state much less the same county. How is it cruel to break up over that. It was long distance relationship that was going to stay that way. Continuing to stay unhappy is cruel. He will have to move on like everyone does when a relationship is unworkable. It is not selfish to want a normal relationship and work towards starting a family of your own.

 

I'm saying she's been selfish in her treatment of him. Almost all the way thru, but particularly the last couple of months.

 

I'm thrilled that he told her to find someone else, I really am.

 

As for slack, perhaps you've never noticed the way she comes down on posters who call her on her own words, which she then denies, until someone has to go back thru War and Peace and find her words and quote her.

 

All the 'oh, I'm so sorry, you'll find a good local guy' needs to be balanced with some tough love. I've got no horses in this race, and wouldn't bother commenting if some of what she has said and done wasn't so disturbing.

 

Sorry if it bothers you, but it's time for someone to take a good, hard look in the mirror.

[Eighty_nine]

I am with losangelena: the best thing you can do for yourself and others is not to date for a while.

 

I completely disagree. There is no virtue in waiting to date for awhile just for the sake of saying you waited awhile after a long term relationship. The "ready" test is the way she felt when being asked out: interested. Then she's ready. Jumping into a long-term relationship might be a different story; but I actually think some casual dating is the best thing she could do right now.

 

I've always felt it was an arbitrary "rule" - to wait to date after a break-up - what's important is to follow your gut and do what feels right. I'm thinking you actually checked out of this relationship some time ago Venus, and I think it's clear now that the same is true for of your bf.

 

I also think he has been misleading you for some time, which is another reason I wouldn't wait around to 'work on yourself'; I think when it became clear you were making real plans to move to New Orleans is when he realized this was serious for you and not just some fantasy, and he put your plans to a halt by claiming he'd move to CA. I agree with Lana and others that your communication in relationships really needs improvement, but I also think you were misled by this person, even if he did have good intentions. I'm sure he cares about you and would love to keep up the status quo. Move on, date, and be more straight forward with men from here on out.

Edited December 21, 2016 by lissvarna

[lana-banana]

I completely disagree. There is no virtue in waiting to date for awhile just for the sake of saying you waited awhile after a long term relationship. The "ready" test is the way she felt when being asked out: interested. Then she's ready. Jumping into a long-term relationship might be a different story; but I actually think some casual dating is the best thing she could do right now.

 

I've always felt it was an arbitrary "rule" - to wait to date after a break-up - what's important is to follow your gut and do what feels right. I'm thinking you actually checked out of this relationship some time ago Venus, and I think it's clear now that the same is true for of your bf.

 

I also think he has been misleading you for some time, which is another reason I wouldn't wait around to 'work on yourself'; I think when it became clear you were making real plans to move to New Orleans is when he realized this was serious for you and not just some fantasy, and he put your plans to a halt by claiming he'd move for you. I agree with Lana and others that your communication in relationships really needs improvement, but I also think you were misled by this person, even if he did have good intentions. I'm sure he cares about you and would love to keep up the status quo. Move on, date, and be more straight forward with men from here on out.

 

You don't have to tell me; I broke up with a man to be with my fiancé. I completely agree waiting for the sake of waiting is useless. But while I think Venus (V, please pardon me for talking in the third person!) may feel ready to start dating again, I think she needs to spend a little time understanding how she acts and reacts in relationships first, so she can be aware and not do it again. Dating again without learning any lessons from this is a recipe for disaster.

 

It is likely this guy misled her to some extent. We will never know how serious he was about marriage. But I'm aware that we only have Venus's version and interpretation of events. We don't know how much or how seriously they ever really discussed it.

[Kamille]

 

I also think he has been misleading you for some time, which is another reason I wouldn't wait around to 'work on yourself'; I think when it became clear you were making real plans to move to New Orleans is when he realized this was serious for you and not just some fantasy, and he put your plans to a halt by claiming he'd move to CA. I agree with Lana and others that your communication in relationships really needs improvement, but I also think you were misled by this person, even if he did have good intentions. I'm sure he cares about you and would love to keep up the status quo. Move on, date, and be more straight forward with men from here on out.

 

I think their communication styles made it so they mislead each other, even now with this break up*. It read as though neither one of them wanted to be upfront about what they really wanted for fear of scaring the other off or "putting too much pressure". It sounds like they both have avoidant traits.

 

Venus, you have gone back in forth on wether she wanted to move to NOLA, gone back and forth on whether she wanted children. The only consistent line was that you wanted to get married. As such, I don't see how he misled you more than you misled him.

 

In fact, I could imagine a scenario where, were it him writing on a forum, people would tell him that he had been misled.

 

*Actually, right now you're the one misleading him with the talk of "if and when he moves to California". I think you're hoping to keep the option open for future romance, but it also helps you avoid making a decision, avoid letting go which would, in the end, keep him on a string.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Kamille

[venusishername]

How does one have a 'separation' from something that never was?

Over a year trying to close the gap, and you're offering him a separation? What?

Break it off cleanly and completely. And I hope to God he's in a pub somewhere with friends who are laughing their asses off.

You've been beyond cruel and selfish.

Ouch. This isn’t fair at all. I already feel like a terrible person for ending the relationship as it is, I’ve been really hurting myself and I hate to hurt him. HE was the one who used the word “separation”, not me. At first I had said that I couldn’t date him anymore unless he lived in CA. Soon I realized that I couldn’t leave it open to the possibility with him yet still want to and date other men. So I realize that there is no “Separation” to be had, it must be a clean breakup. I think saying that I need a separation would be cruel and selfish, leaving it open for later. I’m not doing that.

You say I’ve been selfish all along. I think you are right, I have been selfish. I haven’t been willing to budge on what I want or my boundaries. I could have improved by listening to him rather than hoping I could change his mind. I gave myself completely in this relationship. I completely devoted myself to him for over a year. For a part time relationship based on vacations and fantasy, a relationship of convenience. You know how much this has hurt me? I don’t feel like I was ever a priority to him, for that reason. I know we have loved each other and of course there was something there. I was willing to move to LA and actually put in the work to make progress in doing that, or at least started the ball rolling. Over the past month or so, yes, I started to break away. I could feel it happening. I suppose that made me more selfish. But I think it would be most selfish if I would continued like this. And unfair to him too! I didn’t want him to be lonely or hurting, I didn’t want him to be unhappy either. Staying in the relationship as it has been would cruel and selfish, to me and to him.

Aww, cut Venus some slack. She loves him and wanted to give him once last chance to fight for her and he didn't.

He told her to find someone willing to fully commit since clearly he is not. She wants a husband and children and he has equivocated on that regard and has no sense of urgency on living in the same state much less the same county. How is it cruel to break up over that. It was long distance relationship that was going to stay that way. Continuing to stay unhappy is cruel. He will have to move on like everyone does when a relationship is unworkable. It is not selfish to want a normal relationship and work towards starting a family of your own.

Thank you. The bolded above…thank you.

He added to it yesterday by saying he can’t provide me what I am looking for (the marriage and family unit) because he can’t provide for himself and is devoting all his focus on his own children.

He said that. Less than 24 hours ago. Am I beyond cruel and selfish for ending the relationship when he says that? NO!

You know what I could do? I could tell myself that I don’t believe him, like I did before when he talked about the 2 year engagement. I could try and convince myself that he doesn’t mean it, and that I could bend him to my will and change his mind. I have to TAKE WHAT HE’S SAYING AT FACE VALUE. It hurts like hell. But he and I both know that he either doesn’t want to or can’t commit fully to the relationship and has no interest or desire to close the distance as quickly as possible. He can’t even commit to WHEN and WHERE he would move IF he came out here. work towards a marriage and a family. I can think of a lot better situations for myself than staying in a relationship (across the country at that!) that it is evident we don’t want the same things. I appreciate that he was honest with me by saying that and it seems as if he’s come to some conclusions and the truth has surfaced for him as well.

I do not understand why you are even still discussing him moving to California, when it seems you have both agreed that the relationship is not going to work and you want different things. Why on Earth would he move to California now?

And honestly, the fact that there is still all this confusion about what he wants vs. what you want is absolutely mind boggling given that a couple months ago you were planning to move to NOLA and then he was planning to move to CA. Apparently both of you were willing to uproot your lives and move cross country without even having a serious discussion about what you both wanted? I can't even wrap my brain around how strange that is.

Anyway, all this talk sounds exhausting. Just cut the cord.

I don’t know why he would move to CA now. I realize that was a discussion that is in the past. I can see now that he never really wanted to move here, it was just a nice idea.

I don’t know how to verbalize the discussions we did have regarding serious discussions about what we wanted. You make it sound like we never talked about what we wanted. That isn’t true!! I think the problem is that I was clear, he was a “maybe” and I took his “maybe” as “I can convince him”. I see that his “maybe” was as good as a “no”. I mean, I was genuinely confused because he would talk about marriage and the future. So I was under the impression that he also wanted the same things I did. With that understanding, I felt we could uproot our lives to be with each other.

I was very, very clear from about 2 months in to the relationship that I am looking for a serious commitment leading to marriage and I would like my own children in a couple years’ time with the right person. I was very clear that I don’t want to date casually. I think that was as straightforward as I could possibly be. I reiterated that throughout the relationship. When he mentioned things about our hypothetical wedding and children, and talked about living together before marriage as a way to determine if we were compatible before making a commitment to marry, or even be engaged….I thought (and wanted to believe) that he was also interested in making those things happen. As it turns out, it was a pipe dream… I think just like his idea to move to CA someday. As it turns out, talk is cheap, isn’t it. I was willing to move to LA. But I could see he was stalling, then he changed the plan again and said he would move here. Sometime next year. Then I saw him making no progress. I think everything that added up, was that he was noncommittal and was perfectly content with keeping the relationship long distance. He said he wanted a serious relationship, he was married before so I knew he valued marriage. He would say things about us getting married someday, he talked about what kind of relationship he wanted, it seemed to sound aligned with mine.. Then he talked about retiring in CA permanently, etc.

This is an unusually defensive response and is snippy to the point of being irrational. Why are you so bothered? I asked because I'm quite familiar with the exact language he used, and would have been surprised if it was coming from a nonreligious person. I am curious and a little concerned that anyone's reaction to "I just got out of a messy long-term, long-distance relationship" would be "Cool, I want babies, drinks Y/N?" I am with losangelena: the best thing you can do for yourself and others is not to date for a while.

Lana, I’m just unhappy, lack of sleep, overly emotional. I don’t mean to be snippy. The fact that he said this just means very little to me, compared to all the other stuff that’s going on.

And yeah, if that’s how the dialogue went, sure I would think that’s unusual. When he said that I hadn’t said a word about being in any relationship. He was talking to my gf about his ex who my gf knew before. I hadn’t said anything about my current situation. I was confused at your post because I didn’t see any connection.

Why do you think it's so hard to explain yourself to people in this thread? Why are so many people confused? You are constantly saying one thing and doing another. You handwave and rewrite history to cast yourself in the best possible light. Most frustrating of all, you make posts where it seems like you really get it and finally understand what we've been saying, only to swing back in the opposite direction a week later.

I’ve wondered the same. Why are people confused? Obviously I write a lot. Clearly I don’t include all the information in the exact context because this is all on the internet and can’t be physically observed. It’s kind of like having a LDR.

You apparently never had a serious conversation with your ex about what you really wanted from the relationship until now, when you should have had it around the six-month mark.

Completely untrue. Lana. I had it with him in his car in Louisiana stuck in traffic during Valentine’s Day weekend, which was a couple months after we had been dating. That was the first time. My stance has been communicated to him very clearly since then. He would say things like he would take what I’m saying into consideration, that he was open to it, if we were compatible, he would say things like he wants to live together before making a commitment. He (appeared to) express similar interest in that he also valued marriage and settling down into home life. Remember all the ring and bridesmaid talk?

You continued to ignore and willfully misunderstand everything he said that indicated he wasn't committed. Instead you heard what you wanted to hear and tried to convince yourself of something that was never true.

Hold on. I thought the problem was that I/we need to/must determine compatibility BEFORE any of those things. It wasn’t about him saying “we shall see” that was the problem. Here’s where I’ve been struggling. I thought (please correct me if I’m wrong) that he was right in his “wait and see” attitude. Now that’s supposed to mean that I willfully misunderstood him? I thought all of you told me over and over that you can’t or shouldn’t make a commitment unless you are compatible. (I agree with that, by the way). So when he would say things like he did, that indicated he wasn’t committed… I think I justified that because I thought he might be smart (no rush, remember?) to hold off on making commitment before compatibility.

So I think I gave him the benefit of the doubt in that we didn’t know if we were compatible yet, so how could he be committed? I hope that makes sense. I’m confused. I think it’s hard to express myself clearly sometimes. Maybe my thoughts are too jumbled and that’s why people are confused. I hope I’m making myself clear.

You continue to hint at obvious things without saying them. Like "I'm really hurt that my ex didn't love me enough to move and be with me", or "it sucks that he didn't want to fight for the relationship because that makes me feel like I'm not worth fighting for". While both of these are problematic in their own way, they are honest and understandable. Instead you are parroting our own words back at us, which is good on some level but makes me worry that you haven't really taken it to heart. I've been in this thread long enough to have seen it before.

But this isn’t how I feel. I don’t believe he didn’t love me enough to move. I do feel that it sucks that he wasn’t willing to fight for the relationship. It makes me feel like- well, am I even worth it? Am I really good wife or partner material? What’s wrong with me? I don’t say these things out loud because I don’t want to beat up on myself. Of course I’m hurting.

I know that he loves/loved me. He just wasn’t willing to commit. Plus we had incompatibilities that would not have changed even if he did move. I had doubts all along that he could provide and give me what I need and want. What I had CLEARLY COMMUNICATED to him. I guess what I did wrong is that I didn’t listen to him or believe him. I think I was giving him the benefit of the doubt… because I thought, well you can’t expect him to commit to you/progressing the relationship if he doesn’t know for sure you’re compatible. I hope that I am expressing myself clearly.

[introverted1]

Hold on. I thought the problem was that I/we need to/must determine compatibility BEFORE any of those things. It wasn’t about him saying “we shall see” that was the problem. Here’s where I’ve been struggling. I thought (please correct me if I’m wrong) that he was right in his “wait and see” attitude. Now that’s supposed to mean that I willfully misunderstood him? I thought all of you told me over and over that you can’t or shouldn’t make a commitment unless you are compatible. (I agree with that, by the way). So when he would say things like he did, that indicated he wasn’t committed… I think I justified that because I thought he might be smart (no rush, remember?) to hold off on making commitment before compatibility.

So I think I gave him the benefit of the doubt in that we didn’t know if we were compatible yet, so how could he be committed?

 

I am only going to address the point above. You are conflating compatible life goals -- i.e., you both want to be married and have children -- with interpersonal compatibility --i.e., *this* is the person you want to marry and have children with.

 

Your bf was right to take a wait-and-see approach on whether you and he had interpersonal compatibility: you want to figure out if you share the same ethics, general ideas about finances, day-to-day lifestyles, etc., before you agree to marriage.

 

BUT!

BUT!

BUT!

 

Really early on in a relationship, especially with two mature people, you want to know if you have compatible life goals. In your case, you are clear that you want marriage and children. Your bf NEVER said he wanted this and, no matter how often we cautioned you that he was not on the same page you insisted on hearing his "maybe" and "we'll see" as yeses. Even when he talked about a 2-year engagement, which was clearly contrary to your marriage desires and would have significantly impeded your timeline for having children, you refused to hear him.

 

So whenever you next date, you should be looking for guys who share your life goals - that is, guys who are actively interested in finding a wife with whom to have a family. That doesn't mean this will be the guy you marry, but it means that the relationship has the possibility of going the distance, which is what you are after.

 

You wasted a lot of time with NOLA guy. I am not going to comment on who deceived whom but I will say that you need to LISTEN to your partner and really hear what they are saying! It's not a matter of the "benefit of the doubt" - that phrasing implies that your goals are somehow better than his and therefore his reticence is something to be excused and worked on. That's not the deal! Your goals are no better or worse than his, just different.

[No_Go]

I think you communicated your needs, i.e. 'I was very, very clear from about 2 months in to the relationship that I am looking for a serious commitment leading to marriage and I would like my own children in a couple years’ time with the right person.', and he communicated his: ' he can’t provide me what I am looking for (the marriage and family unit) because he can’t provide for himself and is devoting all his focus on his own children'. You just didn't listen to each other.

 

I think he would have been a good partner BUT he would not have been the provide, you would have been the main breadwinner. That's ok and he would probably compensated with other qualities, but that's not what you wanted, right? So that's why he bailed, I think he couldn't meet this need of yours while meeting his needs (putting his children on first place) as well.

 

No one is wrong in this situation, you gave it a fair try. Because none of you was willing to compromise - it was a dead end. In the future just keep in mind this will be the truth for men that are fathers already (and IMO that's not wrong - I couldn't be serious with a man who puts his dating partner upfront his kids).

 

You'll meet someone in similar life stage with similar goals. Then things will click into place. I recently heard a talk of a famous entrepreneur woman saying she couldn't find a partner till 37 because men were scared from her success. Her dad told her with the right person it will be easy. And it was. She ended up married at 37 and had 4 kids! So... apparently life is not over at 33 Happy holidays V - keep calm and move on!

[Kamille]

What I'm hearing is that you feel you were a victim in all of this. Are you?

[GemmaUK]

Venus, I know you are hurting and break ups can be sad but I really seriously think you need to learn from this.

You never did listen or heed the signs, only when you got frustrated did you seem to realise things in the garden weren't all rosy.

Even everything you didn't seem to want to ask should for you have been a sign - you should have been absolutely confident enough to ask, question, find out.

 

This is what I think you do - you just speculate or 'spin' as a few here have mentioned.

If you are not confident enough in your relationship partner to ask the questions that could make him walk or get the answers that could make you walk then you will end up in the same situation over and over again.

 

This new guy - someone here (Lana was it?) suggested he may be religious - so if you decide to see him again (though I don't think you are anywhere near ready to date at all as you have personal growth to do prior to that) but ask him straight.

 

A lot of your issues appear to come from over speculation and lack of communication - maybe try a communication skills course to aid you - it could help a lot in love, life and work scenarios.

[venusishername]

I'm saying she's been selfish in her treatment of him. Almost all the way thru, but particularly the last couple of months.

I'm thrilled that he told her to find someone else, I really am.

As for slack, perhaps you've never noticed the way she comes down on posters who call her on her own words, which she then denies, until someone has to go back thru War and Peace and find her words and quote her.

All the 'oh, I'm so sorry, you'll find a good local guy' needs to be balanced with some tough love. I've got no horses in this race, and wouldn't bother commenting if some of what she has said and done wasn't so disturbing.

Sorry if it bothers you, but it's time for someone to take a good, hard look in the mirror.

Wow. I think this is unfairly harsh. Things that I’ve done and said are disturbing? How have I been selfish in my treatment of him? That I didn’t want to believe what he said? By ending it BEFORE the holidays, not putting on a front and dragging it out in front of both of our families? How has my treatment of him been selfish and disturbing over the past couple months? Because I didn’t move to LA? I’m curious to know why you think so badly of my behavior as to call it disturbing.

I am only going to address the point above. You are conflating compatible life goals -- i.e., you both want to be married and have children -- with interpersonal compatibility --i.e., *this* is the person you want to marry and have children with.

Your bf was right to take a wait-and-see approach on whether you and he had interpersonal compatibility: you want to figure out if you share the same ethics, general ideas about finances, day-to-day lifestyles, etc., before you agree to marriage.

BUT!

BUT!

BUT!

Really early on in a relationship, especially with two mature people, you want to know if you have compatible life goals. In your case, you are clear that you want marriage and children. Your bf NEVER said he wanted this and, no matter how often we cautioned you that he was not on the same page you insisted on hearing his "maybe" and "we'll see" as yeses. Even when he talked about a 2-year engagement, which was clearly contrary to your marriage desires and would have significantly impeded your timeline for having children, you refused to hear him.

So whenever you next date, you should be looking for guys who share your life goals - that is, guys who are actively interested in finding a wife with whom to have a family. That doesn't mean this will be the guy you marry, but it means that the relationship has the possibility of going the distance, which is what you are after.

You wasted a lot of time with NOLA guy. I am not going to comment on who deceived whom but I will say that you need to LISTEN to your partner and really hear what they are saying! It's not a matter of the "benefit of the doubt" - that phrasing implies that your goals are somehow better than his and therefore his reticence is something to be excused and worked on. That's not the deal! Your goals are no better or worse than his, just different.

I think I understand you. I really want to so please let me know if I’m missing something. I’m clear on the fact that in the future I need to date someone who has similar life goals and who doesn’t say maybe and leave it open, but says “yes” or “no” and then believe what he says backed by action to support that.

In my case, he talked a lot about the maybes but never delivered so after a year I saw that the actions didn’t back up what I thought were the “yeses”. After a year for him it was still not a yes. The way I see it is he wanted to avoid the pressure of a serious, face to face, committed, marriage and parenthood. This doesn’t surprise me because he never married the mother of his children (twice). When he left the “maybe” there when we talked about these goals…. it was as if dangling a carrot… maybe not intentional…. So I think in order to placate me or keep me at bay. I will say it again, that I wanted to believe he would change his mind or it was just a matter of time. I thought that if he was ‘open’ to it (that’s what he was saying) then that was good enough, and then all we had to do was determine compatibility. As it turns out we were incompatible in some other ways. Add that to him not wanting a relationship leading to marriage and child in very near future.. was the nail in the coffin.

What I'm hearing is that you feel you were a victim in all of this. Are you?

No, I am not. I’m not sitting here feeling sorry for myself and blaming him. There are sometimes I find myself slipping into self pity and blaming, anger, but I know I’m not a victim. It’s not his fault. I am hurt, of course. But I’m not pointing fingers or blaming.

I think you communicated your needs, i.e. 'I was very, very clear from about 2 months in to the relationship that I am looking for a serious commitment leading to marriage and I would like my own children in a couple years’ time with the right person.', and he communicated his: ' he can’t provide me what I am looking for (the marriage and family unit) because he can’t provide for himself and is devoting all his focus on his own children'. You just didn't listen to each other.

I think he would have been a good partner BUT he would not have been the provide, you would have been the main breadwinner. That's ok and he would probably compensated with other qualities, but that's not what you wanted, right? So that's why he bailed, I think he couldn't meet this need of yours while meeting his needs (putting his children on first place) as well.

No one is wrong in this situation, you gave it a fair try. Because none of you was willing to compromise - it was a dead end. In the future just keep in mind this will be the truth for men that are fathers already (and IMO that's not wrong - I couldn't be serious with a man who puts his dating partner upfront his kids).

You'll meet someone in similar life stage with similar goals. Then things will click into place. I recently heard a talk of a famous entrepreneur woman saying she couldn't find a partner till 37 because men were scared from her success. Her dad told her with the right person it will be easy. And it was. She ended up married at 37 and had 4 kids! So... apparently life is not over at 33 Happy holidays V - keep calm and move on!

I think you said it really well, No Go. Believe me, I was very sure that I did communicate my needs and wants very early on, and throughout. What I didn’t do was ask him to be clear with me or believe his “maybe” could be code for yes, if only he could be convinced. I felt every time I talked to him about it he got frustrated and said he didn’t want to talk about it and kept getting angry that I kept asking the same questions :/

I feel like the fact we were long distance in and of itself completely hindered things too. It's like someone said...if we had been in the same city it would have likely not have lasted this long.

 

Although I take part in some poor listening skills, and communicating skills…he was also very avoidant and I can see that now. I felt like sometimes I was harping and pressuring him, so I think maybe that’s why I felt like I couldn’t ask the questions, or at least feel comfortable to ask the questions. Maybe there were times that I was too pushy but honestly was trying to get some answers. He seemed to often get more frustrated and angry instead of giving a clear answer.

I feel like I was honest but he felt pressured, and he clearly didn’t want the pressure. Instead of admitting that he said “maybe” in what I believe is an attempt to stall. I think that it all became clear to me when he told me he didn’t want me to move to LA anymore because he would just move to CA so no need for me to move twice. I was willing to follow through on that. He had originally said he’d come to CA. Then he got held up because he needed more time. So I said I’d come there. Then he said never mind, I’ll come to CA instead. Ever since then it’s been he needs more time and doesn’t know when it will be. I don’t feel too bad because it was a year, not years, and it’s seriously better now to pull the plug than drag it out for another “six months”. Imagine, I wait another six months from now, and he still wouldn’t be here. Bull!

Venus, I know you are hurting and break ups can be sad but I really seriously think you need to learn from this.

You never did listen or heed the signs, only when you got frustrated did you seem to realise things in the garden weren't all rosy.

Even everything you didn't seem to want to ask should for you have been a sign - you should have been absolutely confident enough to ask, question, find out.

This is what I think you do - you just speculate or 'spin' as a few here have mentioned.

If you are not confident enough in your relationship partner to ask the questions that could make him walk or get the answers that could make you walk then you will end up in the same situation over and over again.

This new guy - someone here (Lana was it?) suggested he may be religious - so if you decide to see him again (though I don't think you are anywhere near ready to date at all as you have personal growth to do prior to that) but ask him straight.

A lot of your issues appear to come from over speculation and lack of communication - maybe try a communication skills course to aid you - it could help a lot in love, life and work scenarios.

I’m open to communication course. And I like what you said about If you are not confident enough in your relationship partner to ask the questions that could make him walk or get the answers that could make you walk then you will end up in the same situation over and over again.

I truly felt I tried with him. He said maybe and lots of “ifs”. I figured we didn’t even know if we were compatible (because we were long distance) so it was forgivable that I didn’t get the yes or no I was asking for.

personally I was very communicative and let him know very clearly what I want. He didn’t tell me until the past two days that I should find someone else who can give me what I need and offer a full commitment. He told me just within 24 hours that he doesn’t think he can provide me what I deserve/want because his focus is himself and to salvage the relationship with his daughter. That’s his priority.

 

And to me it is very clear now, that he doesn’t have time for a relationship, just one of convenience. And I want more than that, and he’s saying (now) with no ambivalence, that he can't give that. I didn't hear that before. Either I wasn't listening or I'm quite certain he never said it so clearly.

 

As for the other guy who asked me out... Are you saying I should ask him if he's religious or if he wants kids? He came out and clearly said he wanted to have kids in the near future. Am I missing what you're saying? He asked the other night if I would be interested in happy hour and I said yes but he hasn't contacted me. I am used to that with dating. It's often I get asked out and no follow through.

 

That's what I think kept me in this relationship.... my bf was consistent in that he never let the connection drop, and he gave me more attention and time than any other man I've dated here in my own city. So for that reason I think I was under the impression that we wanted the same things, and we were compatible. As it turns out the fact that we didn't want the same things MEANT that we were incompatible. Duh. So all that time that we were both trying to determine if we were compatible, it felt like a struggle for me because I think in my heart I knew we weren't.

 

There was one time he said something about me being the breadwinner since I have the advanced degrees and a consistent career, etc. That really turned me off. I don't want to be the breadwinner. If anything, I'm ok with an equal partner but I'm certainly not ok with carrying most of the weight. I haven't changed my stance that although I don't want to be a permanent stay at home mom, I still want the option and SECURITY to do that for up to 6-12 months. I'm not sure that would ever be possible with him. I think in my heart I knew that, which is why I wasn't keen to move to LA. One reason.

 

I think he has many great qualities as far as a boyfriend. But I'm not looking for a boyfriend. I'm especially not looking for a boyfriend who lives thousands of miles away that I see once every two months for a couple days. I'm looking for husband material. I know they're out there.

Edited December 21, 2016 by venusishername

[Imajerk17]

OK, so the two of you did have a clear breakup*. There likely was no saving this as the two of you are fundamentally incompatible. There was an awful lot of writing and spinning in the meanwhile though. This is what I find bizarre.

 

1. You seemed to be skipping a lot of steps in this relationship. I mean, you seemed to really really want marriage and kids with this guy, but you never seemed to me to be that THAT willing to, well, move to where this guy happens to live, in NOLA. If you were, you would have found a way to make it happen, and do so he has a lot of skin in the game too.

 

If you didn't really want to uproot your comfy life in SoCal and move to NOLA that's fine but then what makes you think this guy should want to commit to you and give you marriage and babies. That is what I mean by skipping steps on your part. [And it is what I alluded to about you being too much in a rush for marriage and babies, and it is also why several posters on here are saying you were selfish.] Thing is, venus, people of BOTH genders move halfway around the world to be with the person they love. Hell, I know of several military couples doing this very same thing.

 

 

2. Your communication with each other was horrible. Now, it is quite possible that you and your boyfriend were just fundamentally incompatible, that it wouldnt have worked out even if you were willing to make the move. If your communication were better you would have found out much sooner (maybe this past May or June?) that you weren't really on the same page with each other, OR you would have a mutually satisfactory way to be living in the same area. Such as you move but he pays expenses and a few months' rent for you.

 

 

 

*(Or so I *think* at least. Speaking of communication, I do agree with others. You go on and on and contradict yourself a lot--especially when called out. And don't always take responsibility for that. It makes it very hard to follow which has to carry over in your 'real' life. Learning to be more concise and to the point probably would only serve you.)

 

.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Imajerk17

[NuevoYorko]

I completely disagree. There is no virtue in waiting to date for awhile just for the sake of saying you waited awhile after a long term relationship.

I agree with this, except it's not the reason people are advising the OP to take a beak from dating.

[NuevoYorko]

I’ve wondered the same. Why are people confused?

 

Do you sincerely not know how difficult it is to understand your posts? People tell you this frequently on this thread.

 

 

Hold on. I thought the problem was that I/we need to/must determine compatibility BEFORE any of those things. It wasn’t about him saying “we shall see” that was the problem. Here’s where I’ve been struggling. I thought (please correct me if I’m wrong) that he was right in his “wait and see” attitude. Now that’s supposed to mean that I willfully misunderstood him? I thought all of you told me over and over that you can’t or shouldn’t make a commitment unless you are compatible. (I agree with that, by the way). So when he would say things like he did, that indicated he wasn’t committed… I think I justified that because I thought he might be smart (no rush, remember?) to hold off on making commitment before compatibility.

 

What does that paragraph even mean?

 

You come off as extremely passive and sometimes passive-aggressive. This sounds like a bratty adolescent talking to her parents.

 

What do YOU think?? Do you think he was right in his wait and see attitude, or don't you?

 

Do you think you've handled yourself like a mid 30's woman who knows what she wants out of life and is actively working towards achieving it? Do you think you will learn and do things differently than you have so far in your life, or are you going to passively "make yourself available to men" (a phrase you use repetitively, to my chagrin) until one finally sticks?

Edited December 22, 2016 by NuevoYorko

[eightytwenty]

Not that I don't disagree with anyone but she is going through a break up...

 

Maybe cool it for a couple of days and maybe some things will get a little clear with time for her. Getting kind of harsh in here

[Leigh 87]

Do you sincerely not know how difficult it is to understand your posts? People tell you this frequently on this thread.

 

 

 

 

What does that paragraph even mean?

 

You come off as extremely passive and sometimes passive-aggressive. This sounds like a bratty adolescent talking to her parents.

 

What do YOU think?? Do you think he was right in his wait and see attitude, or don't you?

 

Do you think you've handled yourself like a mid 30's woman who knows what she wants out of life and is actively working towards achieving it? Do you think you will learn and do things differently than you have so far in your life, or are you going to passively "make yourself available to men" (a phrase you use repetitively, to my chagrin) until one finally sticks?

 

I think he was right with his wait and see attitude...

 

I just think Venus needs to either adopt the same outlook, and in doing so, accepting that she may be an older mum at or after age 35.

 

Or, she needs to only date men who want babies ASAP.

 

Venus,

 

I would be inclined to be an older mum and wait for the right man who can provide for you and a family AND who you're super compatible with AND who you have chemistry with.

 

Trying to find all that..... AND with a man who is willing to essentially promise marriage an babies in the next year or 2 tops..... a lotto win is more likely.

 

So..... waiting and seeing how things pan out, with a guy you're really into..and who ia equally into you.... is the normal course of action.

 

 

 

 

 

The real incomparably in my opinion, wasn't his time line. He would have married her and been open to her falling pregnant!

 

No, she is simply, and rightly so, type of woman who is professional and attractive and therfore, needs a guy who can provide better. I cannot see Venus being okay with a guy who is less successful than her and can't provide.

 

I have a friend like Venus. She is very attractive and successful. She simply wouldn't be into a guy who couldn't provide for her. Venus also knows she can find all this. But it doesn't always happen in the childbearing years.

 

Some women are innately repelled by men who cannot provide and who aren't responsible enough to have 10s of thousands in savings, their own home and disposable income enough for a family.

 

I don't think Venus was willing to admit to herseld that she does in fact, need a guy who can provide. She mistakenly narrated her many pages as though she was like ME; I am a less desirable woman than venus who in turn, is happy with a guy who has any job and doesn't have a need to provide beyond basic necessities for himself and me if necessary.

 

I think venus is stuck between wanting true love, but settling for less than she can accept for the sake of propper love. What she didn't anticipate here is that his lack of ability to adopt the manly role of providing and being responsible, dampened down her resolve to make things work.

 

That beautiful friend of mine is the same. Her ex and her had loads of chemistry and love as well. Unfortunately, he wasn't a provider despite being 10 years older. His life in poverty turned her off, she is simply not able to be sexualy ir emotionally on board with a man who cannot provide.

 

Another friend of mine is the same! She is a beautiful degree educated podiatrist. Just as that other friend has 2 degrees and works in HR. They are beautiful and successful and need a man who has his sht together. Where as I am a plain Jane podiatry student who's only achievement is amazing grades and having saved 50k from my personal training in my late teens that I managed to travel all continents with.

 

Venus is like my friends. Only my friends don't get involved with men who can't support and provide for them and a prospective family into their future.

 

They just wouldn't even get involved to begin with. Where as a woman like me would have been totally fine with Venus's ex. Because I am not as pretty or successful and hence cannot realistically expect to attract decent responsible men and also have amazing chemistry and get it all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This whole situation comes down to Venus trying to settle, and reduce her expectations and then finding that she simply can't accept the conditions and calibre of man that the average women would be thrilled with!

 

She isn't spoilt. She isn't snobby. My beautiful friends aren't either.

 

I actually applaud venus for giving it a go with a man who doesn't meet the criteria of other hot earlys professional women who want kids.... my frienda wouldn't have even considered her bf.

 

Venus should be commended for being open minded and giving it a fair go.. Thankfully, she has learnt that she needs more and won't (hopefully) make this mistake again.

[Leigh 87]

Am I the only one here who thinks it was his lack of ability to provide and be responsible and better off financially, that killed this relationship?

 

If he had his sht together and made concrete plans while still wanting to wait how things went before automatically marrying her and having kids, I have the feeling Venus would have accepted this.

[venusishername]

What do YOU think?? Do you think he was right in his wait and see attitude, or don't you?

 

Do you think you've handled yourself like a mid 30's woman who knows what she wants out of life and is actively working towards achieving it? Do you think you will learn and do things differently than you have so far in your life, or are you going to passively "make yourself available to men" (a phrase you use repetitively, to my chagrin) until one finally sticks?

I am tired, coming down with a cold, hurting, sad, lonely, frustrated, heartbroken,and throw in the Christmas stress on top of all this, I'm just not able to express myself as clearly as I would like. I knew that would be confusing, I'm a bit all over the place. I'm trying my best to express myself clearly. I'm trying to work through my thoughts.

 

 

I think that he was right in his wait and see attitude in that I agree with no need to rush. I agree that you must first determine compatibility before making a commitment like marriage, as he was always saying. IN ADDITION, you must have the same goals and intentions. We never had the face to face day to day relationship where we could have found out whether we were compatible, that's why I think it was doomed from the start. Had we lived in the same city, we would have determined that portion of it months ago. So the fact that we couldn't and didn't have a day to day relationship really hindered a natural progression of things. Add that to the apparent difference of life goals, (in this case a marriage and a new family), I mean... what I was trying to say that I thought we WOULD share the same goals IF we determined we were compatible. I hope I'm making more sense.

 

 

All along posters were telling me I was putting the cart before the horse by thinking that. So no, I don't think he was wrong for a wait and see attitude. He was right. But we could never be compatible if we didn't want the same things. We'd be against all odds. You have to want the same things and also be compatible. I was responding to posters who were saying I ignored and willfully misunderstood him. It's a dilemma. I think determining compatibility is just fine and of course that's necessary. But you can't be compatible if you want different things.

 

 

And no, I haven't been acting like a grown woman in her 30s who knows what she wants, until now. Being in a LDR was going against everything I want. I didn't realize that until recently. So now I'm leaving that situation because it is hindering what I want more than progressing towards it.

 

 

I fell in love and I wanted to see where it would lead. I had hopes and I was willing to actively make strides to progress the relationship. I was not passive. Where I admit I was passive is in that I didn't pick up and move to LA when my lease ended.

 

 

It was like fighting an uphill battle. We couldn't have the day to day that is necessary, plus we lived across the country, plus he didn't share in my desire to have a marriage and start a new family. Had we wanted the same things and had the same goals, THEN we could work on determining compatibility. That would be a very strong motivation to close the distance. But I think that we both knew that we didn't share the same goals, so maybe in the back of my mind I thought it was pointless to move there, in an effort to convince him of what I wanted.

 

 

I need to get some sleep. My head isn't clear and I need to recuperate.

[venusishername]

Am I the only one here who thinks it was his lack of ability to provide and be responsible and better off financially, that killed this relationship?

 

If he had his sht together and made concrete plans while still wanting to wait how things went before automatically marrying her and having kids, I have the feeling Venus would have accepted this.

 

Leigh, I think that deep down, yes, this was definitely a factor in it. The biggest factor for me is that he never kept to a concrete plan. In his everyday life I see he has difficulty keeping with a long term plan. I do think that over time, it dampened down my resolve to make it work, or to move there, for that matter.

 

 

And by the way, I don't think being physically attractive has anything to do with it. So give yourself more credit! Obviously, as you can see by me, even though I'm considered to be pretty and educated doesn't mean I get all that and a bag of chips!!

 

 

I knew that I wanted a child(ren) and I saw evidence that he was not a good provider. And now looking back on it, nor did he want more children *he said he was open to it, that doesn't mean he wanted *

He most likely would have supported me as much as he could if I had an accidental pregnancy. But that didn't sound so appealing when I really thought about it. Because he didn't support the mother of the two kids he already had, he skirted the responsibility of that too, and was an absentee father. I know he loves his kids dearly, but he wasn't at all the stable father figure and provider to them. He's trying to compensate for it now, but struggles a lot with it, I know. This is not a knock at his character... it's just the way he is.

 

I saw time after time throughout our relationship that he was irresponsible with money, couldn't save, spent frivolously, had an erratic and irregular income, etc. Cards getting declined, a bounced check.... I mean, he is a wonderful guy, but those behaviors and traits are in no way, shape or form reliable husband material. I would see men around me, coworkers, friends, much younger than him by the way, who had their sh&* together, and I would think to myself... .... I think I need to be with a man like that since I do want to get married and have a family. IF I had moved there, and into his house, I would have likely become pregnant eventually.... whether or not we were married, and we'd be fighting about money all the time because he's terrible with it. We already have fought about money and we don't live in the same state.

 

He has been saying since day one, last October, that he needs to get up enough money to make a move out here. Nothing has changed more than a year later. He complained that he spent all his money on this trip tomorrow so he doesn't have any savings to make a move anyway.

 

So yes, Leigh. I think those factors were very, very significant in keeping me from moving out of CA and for currently putting an end to the relationship. He's not going to change if we live in the same city. I did want to believe otherwise because I wanted him to be my partner. I was hoping he would get his shyte together a long time ago. He didn't.

 

I don't mean to be unreasonably harsh on him. I also don't want to be a housewife either, so I'm not saying I need someone to provide for me. But it is an innate thing.. I think I was repressing it a lot all along. I knew he couldn't do it. He even admitted the other day that he couldn't, at least in the way that he felt he should, or that I wanted.

 

What I do need, and am going to work to achieve now, is someone who is able to be responsible and a good provider, who wants marriage and family and is willing and capable of doing that, as best as he can.

 

I have great male role models for a good provider, husband and father in my life. So I have looked around at those men and thought... there's nothing wrong with me wanting the same thing in the man I'm with. And I know there are men like that out there. I've dated a couple. I know many. It really is a big deal.

 

I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck or have to badger him about saving money or spending too much. Guys, recently I even tried to work through a budget with him so he/we could make progress towards his moving out here when the contract was over. He didn't have time or interest for it! I would ask him how much he felt he needed to come here, and he said at least $5k. Soon after we had that conversation, I found out he spent thousands on the plane fare, rental car, hotels all over the state, and I was like, "F this". It's no use.

 

After a year of things like this, adding up (nothing against his character as a person, he is a good man with integrity), I think in my heart I realized that has been a HUGE thorn in my side all along and I just couldn't compromise on that. And I don't have to.

 

I always kind of thought that he would change or it would be better IF we lived in the same city and we worked together on it. But I think the man I am with should already be secure enough and responsible and settled enough. I felt he was too flighty, unsettled, and inconsistent.

 

Consistency and reliability go a very long way. He doesn't have those traits. He was consistent and reliable as far as emotional support and love, that is for certain. But not otherwise. I wanted to believe that would change. I truly did. I just never saw it improve. I always had my reservations about that.

[Leigh 87]

Leigh, I think that deep down, yes, this was definitely a factor in it. The biggest factor for me is that he never kept to a concrete plan. In his everyday life I see he has difficulty keeping with a long term plan. I do think that over time, it dampened down my resolve to make it work, or to move there, for that matter.

 

 

And by the way, I don't think being physically attractive has anything to do with it. So give yourself more credit! Obviously, as you can see by me, even though I'm considered to be pretty and educated doesn't mean I get all that and a bag of chips!!

 

 

I knew that I wanted a child(ren) and I saw evidence that he was not a good provider. And now looking back on it, nor did he want more children *he said he was open to it, that doesn't mean he wanted *

He most likely would have supported me as much as he could if I had an accidental pregnancy. But that didn't sound so appealing when I really thought about it. Because he didn't support the mother of the two kids he already had, he skirted the responsibility of that too, and was an absentee father. I know he loves his kids dearly, but he wasn't at all the stable father figure and provider to them. He's trying to compensate for it now, but struggles a lot with it, I know. This is not a knock at his character... it's just the way he is.

 

I saw time after time throughout our relationship that he was irresponsible with money, couldn't save, spent frivolously, had an erratic and irregular income, etc. Cards getting declined, a bounced check.... I mean, he is a wonderful guy, but those behaviors and traits are in no way, shape or form reliable husband material. I would see men around me, coworkers, friends, much younger than him by the way, who had their sh&* together, and I would think to myself... .... I think I need to be with a man like that since I do want to get married and have a family. IF I had moved there, and into his house, I would have likely become pregnant eventually.... whether or not we were married, and we'd be fighting about money all the time because he's terrible with it. We already have fought about money and we don't live in the same state.

 

He has been saying since day one, last October, that he needs to get up enough money to make a move out here. Nothing has changed more than a year later. He complained that he spent all his money on this trip tomorrow so he doesn't have any savings to make a move anyway.

 

So yes, Leigh. I think those factors were very, very significant in keeping me from moving out of CA and for currently putting an end to the relationship. He's not going to change if we live in the same city. I did want to believe otherwise because I wanted him to be my partner. I was hoping he would get his shyte together a long time ago. He didn't.

 

I don't mean to be unreasonably harsh on him. I also don't want to be a housewife either, so I'm not saying I need someone to provide for me. But it is an innate thing.. I think I was repressing it a lot all along. I knew he couldn't do it. He even admitted the other day that he couldn't, at least in the way that he felt he should, or that I wanted.

 

What I do need, and am going to work to achieve now, is someone who is able to be responsible and a good provider, who wants marriage and family and is willing and capable of doing that, as best as he can.

 

I have great male role models for a good provider, husband and father in my life. So I have looked around at those men and thought... there's nothing wrong with me wanting the same thing in the man I'm with. And I know there are men like that out there. I've dated a couple. I know many. It really is a big deal.

 

I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck or have to badger him about saving money or spending too much. Guys, recently I even tried to work through a budget with him so he/we could make progress towards his moving out here when the contract was over. He didn't have time or interest for it! I would ask him how much he felt he needed to come here, and he said at least $5k. Soon after we had that conversation, I found out he spent thousands on the plane fare, rental car, hotels all over the state, and I was like, "F this". It's no use.

 

After a year of things like this, adding up (nothing against his character as a person, he is a good man with integrity), I think in my heart I realized that has been a HUGE thorn in my side all along and I just couldn't compromise on that. And I don't have to.

 

I always kind of thought that he would change or it would be better IF we lived in the same city and we worked together on it. But I think the man I am with should already be secure enough and responsible and settled enough. I felt he was too flighty, unsettled, and inconsistent.

 

Consistency and reliability go a very long way. He doesn't have those traits. He was consistent and reliable as far as emotional support and love, that is for certain. But not otherwise. I wanted to believe that would change. I truly did. I just never saw it improve. I always had my reservations about that.

 

 

 

Oh please don't give me that (being pretty isn't all that and a bag of chips). I would kill tl be pretty. It does increase your chances of finding love by a long shot.

 

So the downside (the only downside) to being attractive and having high standards, is that it is MUCH harder to find..... where as dumpy plain jain gals like myself jump at men like your recent ex; I would know, my own bf is like that..

 

I guess I just know that I was super lucky to have a guy fall hard for me and won't likely happen again (that a man finds me pretty and hot and falls for me and has the infatuation phase with me). .

 

So while your list of demands WAS NOT at all outlandish.... average woman like me jump at the opportunity for your kind of relationship you had.

 

That's why some people on here are claiming you were too fussy. When in reality, the downside of being pretty and desired by many, is that you know you have a fair shot at attaining all your main criteria.

 

Don't ever feel like you were being unreasonable. My attractive friends wouldn't be happy with a guy like yours/my bf, where as I thank my lucky stars EVERY day for what you weren't satisfied with.

[Kamille]

People here have been telling you for a long time that he didn't sound financially responsible. I remember you would then minimize our arguments and say we were making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Why do you think it took you so long to realize finances were a deal breaker?

[lana-banana]

Leigh, is your advice really "you're so pretty therefore you shouldn't have to settle, and everyone who said you were being picky was just speaking from experience as ordinary or unattractive people"? I cannot imagine how your boyfriend would feel if he knew you were with him because you think you can't do any better, and you believe your attractive friends have "higher quality" partners. Yuck.

 

Venus, if in the future your partner isn't responding to your concerns, you can express your need for a change, and if he doesn't accede then you can cut loose. If I had your priorities I would have been gone as soon as he expressed such ambivalence about kids.

 

I'm not sure if I'm fully onboard with lissvarna when she says his "decision" to move to CA instead was a stalling tactic to halt the relationship, but I'm beginning to see how it could be true. Ultimately it doesn't matter. What does matter is deeds, not words, and everyone in this thread (with maybe one or two glaring exceptions) advised you that just because he talked about rings and babies didn't guarantee it would happen. At the end of the day his words and actions didn't line up with your expectations, so you took the very necessary step of ending it. That's all good. It just seems like it shouldn't have taken so long.

 

It worries me that he would get frustrated when you tried to talk about it, saying it was beating a dead horse and so on. From your posts here your future together wasn't remotely clear, but he seemed to think things were more than settled. That to me suggests you were not communicating well at all.

 

Take some time to yourself. Draw bubble baths. Do yoga. Meditate. Volunteer. Find things you enjoy. Let yourself get lost in thought but don't dwell too deeply. Focus on who you are---how you feel, what you want, what you don't want. Think about how to be honest with yourself and what it means to live authentically. Later, talk to your friends about communication and ask if they have any advice. Maybe they have examples of times when they thought you meant one thing but you really intended another.

 

And don't forget to drink eggnog! We'll be having some too.

Edited December 22, 2016 by lana-banana

[venusishername]

People here have been telling you for a long time that he didn't sound financially responsible. I remember you would then minimize our arguments and say we were making a mountain out of a molehill.

Why do you think it took you so long to realize finances were a deal breaker?

Yes, I did that. I know. I felt that I was in no place to judge or fully understand all the information, so I felt that I couldn’t speculate on the details of it. It consistently bothered me though. It was a pattern.

I wanted to believe that could be overcome with teamwork. I wanted to believe it wasn’t a dealbreaker, justifying that with all his other wonderful qualities.

Venus, if in the future your partner isn't responding to your concerns, you can express your need for a change, and if he doesn't accede then you can cut loose. If I had your priorities I would have been gone as soon as he expressed such ambivalence about kids.

I'm not sure if I'm fully onboard with lissvarna when she says his "decision" to move to CA instead was a stalling tactic to halt the relationship, but I'm beginning to see how it could be true. Ultimately it doesn't matter. What does matter is deeds, not words, and everyone in this thread (with maybe one or two glaring exceptions) advised you that just because he talked about rings and babies didn't guarantee it would happen. At the end of the day his words and actions didn't line up with your expectations, so you took the very necessary step of ending it. That's all good. It just seems like it shouldn't have taken so long.

It worries me that he would get frustrated when you tried to talk about it, saying it was beating a dead horse and so on. From your posts here your future together wasn't remotely clear, but he seemed to think things were more than settled. That to me suggests you were not communicating well at all.

Take some time to yourself. Draw bubble baths. Do yoga. Meditate. Volunteer. Find things you enjoy. Let yourself get lost in thought but don't dwell too deeply. Focus on who you are---how you feel, what you want, what you don't want. Think about how to be honest with yourself and what it means to live authentically. Later, talk to your friends about communication and ask if they have any advice. Maybe they have examples of times when they thought you meant one thing but you really intended another.

And don't forget to drink eggnog! We'll be having some too.

Fully agree with everything you say, Lana. I’m trying to fill my time with friends and family this holiday and make the best of it. I’m hurting and sad, but I do realize it is best to not drag this out anymore.

Edited December 23, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
reference to banned member ~t

[Leigh 87]

Leigh, is your advice really "you're so pretty therefore you shouldn't have to settle, and everyone who said you were being picky was just speaking from experience as ordinary or unattractive people"? I cannot imagine how your boyfriend would feel if he knew you were with him because you think you can't do any better, and you believe your attractive friends have "higher quality" partners. Yuck.

 

Venus, if in the future your partner isn't responding to your concerns, you can express your need for a change, and if he doesn't accede then you can cut loose. If I had your priorities I would have been gone as soon as he expressed such ambivalence about kids.

 

I'm not sure if I'm fully onboard with lissvarna when she says his "decision" to move to CA instead was a stalling tactic to halt the relationship, but I'm beginning to see how it could be true. Ultimately it doesn't matter. What does matter is deeds, not words, and everyone in this thread (with maybe one or two glaring exceptions) advised you that just because he talked about rings and babies didn't guarantee it would happen. At the end of the day his words and actions didn't line up with your expectations, so you took the very necessary step of ending it. That's all good. It just seems like it shouldn't have taken so long.

 

It worries me that he would get frustrated when you tried to talk about it, saying it was beating a dead horse and so on. From your posts here your future together wasn't remotely clear, but he seemed to think things were more than settled. That to me suggests you were not communicating well at all.

 

Take some time to yourself. Draw bubble baths. Do yoga. Meditate. Volunteer. Find things you enjoy. Let yourself get lost in thought but don't dwell too deeply. Focus on who you are---how you feel, what you want, what you don't want. Think about how to be honest with yourself and what it means to live authentically. Later, talk to your friends about communication and ask if they have any advice. Maybe they have examples of times when they thought you meant one thing but you really intended another.

 

And don't forget to drink eggnog! We'll be having some too.

 

I am with him because we had the sparks flying and an amazing infatuation driven relationship and ended up realising we were compatible and made each other laugh. Same as why you went and dated your fiance?

 

But I know I can't have it all the way pretty women like Venus and I am sure you do. So I choose chemistry and someone who makes me laugh and can hold a full time job; I have zero expectations beyond that. Hence why I don't mind that he is a former addict with no savings to his name at age 30.

 

You are not a plain med school student like me at age 30 so you have absolutely no idea as to whether a girl like me can simply go and expect to find the amazing sparks and real love I found, with a well to do responsible dude with a sqeaky clean financial past and 50 to 100k in the bank.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about Lana. You are obviously a pretty girl who assumes that even if you looked plain like me, that you could get it all in a guy. LOL.

 

Anyway. Venus is clearly in your league and will go on to likely find it all. I am so glad she saw her worth.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Leigh 87