When it rains it pours

[clia]

I feel like I'm not capable of achieving my goals. Although I've been "Ready" for years, it's obvious I'm f'ed up and not in a good place to be really "ready" in literal terms. I spent over a year in a LDR. How f'ed up is that? I didn't see it until now. How dysfunctional.

I want to trust what people say and their intentions. I trusted my ex's intentions in that he was consistent in his contact, talked about the future, included me in his family, talked about marriage, asked me to move in, etc. To me, that showed he was a serious prospect, and considered me the same. Over time, the little things (like the thing he said about not having time for a relationship), all added up and caused the demise of the situation.

Now, after a week, he's dropped off in contact, and is basically just saying "ok, I respect your decision. I want the best for you, I'm trying to move on."

 

I mean, I'm totally f*(king flabbergasted. How dare he? After all this? What was the point in over a year of committing to a LDR if that was his reaction? All i said (at first) was "I can't date you anymore unless we live in the same city". Then his attitude is "you're high maintenance" and "I wish you the best". WOW. it's for the best, I know that. But how can I possibly believe anyone in the future, after all this?

 

 

I guess you are angry because he didn't immediately move to CA to "fight for you"? This isn't the movies. I don't really know what you expected him to do or even expect him to do now. You told him you couldn't date him unless you live in the same city, and you don't live in the same city! And he allegedly couldn't move to CA until at least March. So? You gave him an ultimatum and it backfired. That's what happens. And there is no reason now to stay in contact and keep discussing the issue. You don't want an LDR and right now the two of you are in different cities. It's over and it's time to move on. And the reality is that you two weren't compatible anyway. This breakup isn't just about the distance.

 

It's interesting that you are only seeing now what a bad decision it was to be in an LDR for the past year, given your dating goals. Other posters in this thread pointed it out to you over the past year, yet you didn't listen. In fact, you don't listen to a lot of the advice you are given. Since what you have done in the past hasn't worked for you, it might be worth considering trying a new approach, as posters in this thread have suggested.

 

All that said, I do feel bad you are going through all this. Breakups are tough. You will get through this and move on -- it'll just take time.

[anna121]

Venus - it's totally normal to be feeling angry with him, even though he is, in fact, respecting your wishes. Just know that it is an emotional and not rational response, and let them run their course.

 

Can I ask - what about the rest of your life? What are some goals you have in other areas? If I recall correctly, you work in the legal profession but not as a lawyer (paralegal? legal assistant?) Are you happy with the idea of doing that for the rest of your life? Or is there another career that has always appealed to you?

[lana-banana]

NuevoYorko said it better than I could. At the end of the day you know nothing about this guy, and you are in no place whatsoever to make any judgments about whether he's stable or career-oriented or consistent after one meeting. For God's sake, the entire first month of dating should be spent assessing compatibility and making sure the other person isn't a murderer. (Hyperbole, but not by much.)

 

Is it wrong to assume someone is interested (or wants to marry you) if they TELL YOU and ACT AS IF they are interested (and are thinking about marriage, etc.)??

 

Where are you getting the "acts as if" from? Did you go to premarital counseling together? Did he buy a ring? Did you actually buy property together? At the end of the day you just talked and talked and talked.

 

Also, I'm legitimately shocked you agreed to a joint phone plan before you had any idea what his financial status was like. I just can't, Venus.

 

A person who wasn't thinking about marriage and long term future plans would not talk marriage and the future out of his arse. I just have a really hard time believing that. It doesn't make sense. It had to come from some kind of desire.

 

The desire was to please you and make you happy, Venus. He knew he had to say those things to placate you. Yes, he may have talked about your theoretical wedding party, but he also told you explicitly that he might be ready to marry if he met the one, didn't have time for a relationship, wasn't that interested in marriage and didn't mind being engaged for years. This is a direct contradiction to the marriage talk! Do you know what it means when someone's words aren't consistent? It means they're either confused or insincere. When words don't line up then you have to look at actions, and he was not taking any actions to ensure a long-term future with you.

 

A person who didn't find another person attractive and want to get to know that person more on a date would not ask for their number and follow through and keep a connection and try to pin down a date.

 

Or he could be a guy who just wants sex. Or he could be angling for a FWB situation. Or he could be a murderer. You don't know! You have absolutely no idea. You need to let people prove themselves to you rather than accept what you want to hear so quickly.

 

Do you remember R? He had you on the hook for a long time. You were convinced that he was serious about you because you had made it clear you wanted a real, steady, long-term relationship, and therefore if he continued to spend time with you he obviously felt the same way, QED etc. That is not how it works. That's like saying "my ex hasn't told me to F off and die, therefore he must still love me" (a surprisingly common fallacy). Just because someone does not behave the way you expect does not mean you can draw accurate assessments of their intentions. People will do what they want. R continued to see you occasionally even though he knew you wanted more. A guy might approach you for a date even if he just wants sex. It happens.

 

Think of it like a job interview. You are all ready to fill the position and print out an offer because a guy seemed to have a decent profile and answered a few basic questions correctly. The rest of us are urging you to at least have an interview or two before you make any decisions.

 

f my ex boyfriend said "I think we should live together before we get married"- I think, "he wants to live together and he's intending to marry me". Is that projection?

 

Under your circumstances? Yes, emphatically. You should have thought "he wants to determine if we have the potential for a serious future together, at which point he might marry me". He pretty much said this directly and you chose not to listen.

 

I spent over a year in a LDR. How f'ed up is that? I didn't see it until now. How dysfunctional.

 

My former boss spent almost two years in an LDR (the woman couldn't move due to her work). They saw each other every other weekend, whether it was flying or driving nine hours each way. As soon as her assignment was up they moved in together, got engaged six months later and are now happily married. LDRs can work. But both parties have to do the work.

 

Now, after a week, he's dropped off in contact, and is basically just saying "ok, I respect your decision. I want the best for you, I'm trying to move on."

I mean, I'm totally f*(king flabbergasted. How dare he? After all this? What was the point in over a year of committing to a LDR if that was his reaction?

 

Bzuh? Was he supposed to contest your breakup? "How dare he" honor your wishes and respectfully accept your decision? Venus, this is flat-out egomaniacal crazy talk and it's not pretty.

 

All i said (at first) was "I can't date you anymore unless we live in the same city".

 

...how was he supposed to respond? "Oh, okay, I'll just upend my entire life immediately without respect to my.family, finances or future and get a ticket to California"? Was he supposed to spend six months (during which you wouldn't be dating) scrambling to be with you? This wasn't just an ultimatum, it was a literal impossibility. If my fiancé told me "I can't be with you anymore unless we're both zebras", I would have to end the relationship because I do not see a feasible path to becoming a zebra.

 

Then his attitude is "you're high maintenance" and "I wish you the best". WOW.

 

Serious question: what did you really expect him to do? Issuing an ultimatum and breaking up with someone because they can't meet an impossible condition is a good example of high-maintenance behavior.

 

Once again it sounds like the biggest blow in this breakup was to your ego; namely, you can't accept this guy's choice to cut his losses and leave, even though to the rest of us on planet Earth it is clear that he had no other option. I just don't understand how you expected this to end.

 

This whole self-pitying blather about "but how can I possibly believe anyone?!?!?" has got to go. Venus, you are not a blushing ingenue. You are a woman in your mid-30s with several long-term relationships under your belt. You have experience in the real world. You have seen that what someone says is not necessarily consistent with what they mean. If you proceed in relationships when you are getting mixed signals, that's on you.

[Leigh 87]

Oh I totally understand why Venus was secretly expecting/hoping he wouldn't just accept it was over.

 

I sure wouldn't have felt OKAY if my own recent ex had simply accepted the break up the very first instance it was brought up; after all, it isn't natural of him to go from telling me I was the Love of His Life one morning, to then just accepting it if I said hey, let's break up because I'm not happy.

 

Both parties should of course be very upset and even cry and feel hopeless and depressed if the love was a great one.

 

But he did protest; along the way I am SURE he tried to apease Venus, she mentioned that he made it known that he wanted to rise ti the occasional and work on curbing bad habits and coming to making the relationship work.

 

And then I am sure he just didn't accept the break up immediately. I am sure it was drawn out and coming for a while. It wasn't out of the blue that things weren't great. Again- this wasn't some couple who were blind sided regarding any potential break up. It was imminent. They were arguing, according to Venus.

 

So I don't care how infatuated he was or how hard he fell for you. That is all just chemistry and is not incredibly rare. If things are getting difficult in a relationship and you are inherently incompatible then no amount of the chemistry or good old times together are going to make a man chase after you.

 

Of course if you were otherwise blissful and the break up was a massive shock to him then you're totally right, he SHOULD have been more shocked and inclined to protest the break up.... but you guys weren't working out too well and he probably senses the bteak up was coming.

 

Deep down, the romantic ls in us hang onto the initial euphoric falling in love moments and the best friend we have lost- and makes us want our me to come after us.

 

Let me tell you, in my 6 years on loveshack, with me reading copious amounts of break up stories, there has only ever been the ONE dude who wanted his ex back, for the right reasons, and it took him 2 months to come declaring his undying love. These 2 had the intense chemistry and best friends dynamic that is so rare and venerated . They broke up because he hsd legitimate commitment issues, only to soon learn that his life was so much richer with her by his side; she was worth seeking out a goof therapist and working on his issues for.

 

I have never heard of another couple where the guy ended up begging to reverse the break up and declaring his undying love.

 

So don't take it too personally Venus, lol!

[anna121]

I have to emphatically agree with Lana here, Venus. Having gone back and read a few of your past threads for the first time, it is really unfortunate to see the same patterns of behaviour and attitude in all of them, with very little sign of any adjustment of your approach to men.

 

Honestly, it looks like a feedback loop to me.

[Kamille]

Would you consider yourself a perfectionist? You strike me as one.

 

Perfectionism shows up in many ways, one of which being that perfectionists tend to twist reality to fit their "perfect" image of themselves. Anything else is too threatening.

 

Perfectionism is a coping mechanism against deep rooted insecurities. My guess is that your deepest insecurity is that you're not worthy of love. It would explain a few of the behaviours you displayed throughout this relationships, namely :

 

1) Thinking that if he loved you enough he would kowtow to your timeline.

2) Having difficulty accepting that he's not chasing you after the break up.

3) Struggling to distinguish between accountability and self-pity/victimization.

 

I think that, of the 3, the last is the one you most need to work on at a cognitive level. It isn't a direct step from: "I should not have pursued a relationship that didn't lead to my goals of being married and having a family" to "I give up, I am not marriage material etc etc". In fact, the two aren't linked. In statement one, you recognize you made a mistake and you can learn from it. That's where the thought process should end. But your insecurity about being lovable is making it so you jump right into a dramatic mode, one that keeps you away from processing the break up productively.

 

As to projections, as others have said: there is not much you can glean from one conversation or even from regular texting. You say yourself men tend to find you beautiful. Any guy interested in dating you will do his best to put his best foot forward. Expect no less. Don't jump ahead to thinking this automatically makes him relationship material. All it makes him is interested. No more, no less.

[Leigh 87]

I have to emphatically agree with Lana here, Venus. Having gone back and read a few of your past threads for the first time, it is really unfortunate to see the same patterns of behaviour and attitude in all of them, with very little sign of any adjustment of your approach to men.

 

Honestly, it looks like a feedback loop to me.

 

It seems to me like the men that she feels the intense feelings for are men that aren't all in, be it emotionally (not that into her) or men who are bad matches and hence, unavailable to her and her end goals.

 

I normally don't advocate the whole dating men you're not initially feeling great sparks with- I like to think we can have it all:lmao: but unfortunately in Venus's case, it screams to me like it could either be bad luck OR, maybe, Venus is innately drawn to men who just aren't that into her or a bad choice of a partner.

 

So if she wants kids the traditional way then she obviously needs to start seeking core traits and qualities first, and as long as he isn't unattractive to her, give the men with good seeming and compatible values, a fair go and forget about the giddy infatuation stage she feels with the unavailable men.

 

What else would you suggest she actually does this time around?

 

Is it just her being drawn to the wrong types of men time and time again?

 

Is it that she shouldn't follow her heart initially and rather, seek men with her head and let the heart follow albeit in a less intense and emotionally charged fashion?

 

Just curious. I am around her age and relate to some of her frustrations and am sure she is wondering wtf she CAN do differently....

[imaginarium]

Venus, I'd like to point out, as someone who has read this whole thing, you have the dating aspirations of a woman in her mid-30s (date a serious man who can be a provider, get engaged quickly, marry and have children in a condensed timeframe), but you have the dating style of a 20 year old (meet someone, create fantasies in your head of your life together, date them without regard for who they really are, demand to get your way, get frustrated when you don't, throw tantrum, break up, immediately repeat process).

 

You are never going to get that serious relationship you want if you don't learn anything about who you are and adjust that to be closer to the kind of person who can actually pick out the kind of men you want.

 

Others have pointed out, so much you wrote about NOLA guy reads as "ME ME ME HOW DOES THIS AFFECT VENUS" and really, it doesn't seem you had any sense of the two of you as a couple or how you affected him.

 

If you turn a relationship into a quest for a man who's going to just give you everything you want, you're going to learn that either you are going to keep getting disappointed, or men who are capable of providing for you will quickly take away your independence as a trade.

 

There are good men who can give you what you want, but they're probably going to look for someone who contributes emotionally (in a heathy way) to the relationship, and you don't seem to be there.

[Redhead14]

This is a good idea. Considering I’m angry, depressed, still feeling regret and even doubt… I couldn’t possibly be fully available to another relationship. I’m so resigned, so disappointed, and seriously, I want to just curl up and die. I feel like I’m not good enough and I’m not worthy or deserving of a happy, committed, serious relationship. I feel like I’m not good enough and that I’m not ever going to find what I am looking for. I feel like giving up. I know that I made mistakes in this past relationship. I feel that the number one I did wrong was engage in a LDR at all. That wasn’t conducive to my goals and needs, and desires. I had hope that it COULD lead into something but as time went on, I saw it wasn’t going to, and didn’t. I also think that I did project my desires onto him and didn’t listen or believe I could change him when he said things about a two year engagement, or insisting to live together before making any kind of commitment, and that he was “open” to marriage and a child in the future but really wasn’t any priority or strong desire.

But lately, I feel like I am not partner, wife material and I need to just let go of the dream. I know I’ve spent time with the “Bad boys” and need to focus on different things, different values, etc. I see that. I really do. Truly. I also know that I won’t tolerate certain things anymore nor will I put myself in situations like I used to.

With this past relationship, honestly, I had hopes that it would and could work out.

My biggest thing is that we spent over a year invested in this, planning for the future (or talking about it) and he talked about marriage and I know he loves/loved me… so how can he just walk away like, “oh well, I respect your decision and I’m not willing to do anything about it”…..?!?!

That hurts the most. How is this even possible??!!~? I’m so angry about it and how he’s completely let it go without a fight. After all that, how could he not??!

 

Introverted… I’m not sure it can be fixed. I feel like a failure. I can see where I was projecting my desires onto my last relationship….not listening to my ex and hoping I could convince him or he would change his mind. Still, I had hope. I think even if I never projected anything, (obviously), it STILL wouldn’t have worked out, just due to our personality and lifestyle differences, and age difference, etc.

As far as the guy I met in a bar last week. I wasn’t projecting. I said he has contacted me consistently since we met. I’m just looking forward to moving on and that’s all I was trying to say. It was just a comment. I didn’t say “he must really be interested”, I mean, many guys have asked for my number and they don’t follow through. This one asked for my number and has been following through. How is this projecting? I was making a statement. Can you explain how this is a fallback?

 

Of course I’m not ready to date seriously right now. But I’m not going to turn down a date if I meet someone and there’s mutual interest. I think it’s ok to just get to know someone and take it slow. I just want to get back out there and be open and move on. I want to focus on finding someone close to my age, with the same goals and lifestyle choices. I want someone who makes plans and thinks in long term, and who dates with the intention of starting a life with someone. And someone who is stable, responsible and who can provide financial security and stability. Those things didn’t used to be as important to me, obviously.. look at the men I chose. Now that I’m REALLY READY.. those things are much more attractive than charming personality and high emotions and unavailability.

I just can’t help but feel like I’m not good enough, not a good girlfriend/wife material, otherwise I would have had success. Added to my choices in long term relationships and engaging in meaningless casual relationships over the years. I can’t help but feel like even if I met the “right” guy, I wouldn’t deserve it anyway. Obviously feeling sorry for myself.

All I can say is that I’m really happy that I ended the dysfunction of the long distance relationship. I didn’t realize how unhealthy it was for me, to go through that and be in that situation. Despite my feelings for him, I can see now how it wasn’t good for me.

 

I think it’s ok to just get to know someone and take it slow. -- NO, it isn't OK right now. You cannot be focused and be truly engaged and in the moment, especially, right now when your emotions are so raw and your mind is still spinning. It isn't fair to another person either, who wants a real relationship for themselves. And, as a rule, when people hear the phrase "I want to take it slow (and especially if they know you are recently out of a relationship), the smart ones will back off and not even give you the opportunity. And, the do*ches will stick it our for a while because they know you are vulnerable, lonely, hurting and in need of comfort and get sex if they can. And, don't kid yourself -- you may say you won't have sex with anyone, but at one of your weakest moments and current state of mind, it'll probably happen and then you'll be here saying "OMG, I can't believe I did that . . ." and your esteem and sense of value will be damaged yet again. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't, but why put yourself in that position at all. Don't set yourself up for even a possible failure.

 

But I’m not going to turn down a date if I meet someone and there’s mutual interest. -- Right now, for you, I think this thought process is akin to going shopping and buying things you don't really need just because it's On Sale. You don't need to possibly set yourself up for another possible failure right now.

 

Don't date anyone if you have to present "caveats". Give yourself some time to heal so that you bring a more focused, secure woman who has gained/regained her confidence and can bring her best self to the dating "table". You are not bringing your best self to the table if you are saying things to yourself like "I don't deserve . . ., I'm not good enough", etc. You are bringing a "broken woman" to the table if you're doing that.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Redhead14

[trolloperative]

Also, I disagree with posters saying you need time off. Not sure I remember correctly but you just took a year off before this LDR and a few years before the series of casual guys?

 

We are all always "working on ourselves" and since your issue is dating (the rest of your life is going ok) you need practice dating, the coach guiding you, by seeing different people. I'm pretty sure you don't really know what kind of guy you like.

[losangelena]

I'm surprised you're so upset that he's trying to move on. What were you expecting, exactly? You rail on for literal pages that he's not right for you and that you want a local man to date, yet how dare he have some self-respect and not throw himself at your feet?

 

I agree with whoever recently said you need some professional help. Though I suspect that you tire quickly of therapists when they start telling you things you don't want to hear.

[Redhead14]

Also, I disagree with posters saying you need time off. Not sure I remember correctly but you just took a year off before this LDR and a few years before the series of casual guys?

 

We are all always "working on ourselves" and since your issue is dating (the rest of your life is going ok) you need practice dating, the coach guiding you, by seeing different people. I'm pretty sure you don't really know what kind of guy you like.

 

Yes, she needs practice with dating, but just not so soon after this one ended. It's bad idea.

[NuevoYorko]

I believe it will help you if you stop rewriting your relationship with NOLA guy, and his character, from all sorts of different narratives. This is how I see it, without all the switchups:

 

You met in a bar, the attraction was strong and mutual, you both fell hard for each other, you both committed to an exclusive LDR relationship, you both gave it a lot of sincere effort, you BOTH came to realize that it was not going to be evolving past an LDR and into a marriage with children within your time frame, so you BOTH decided, with much sadness, that it was time to say goodbye and move on.

 

Nobody was the bad guy, nobody mislead anybody. It has run its course.

 

It's hard and painful to break up and move on. He's moving on and it's time for you to follow your words (you're over it) with your actions, pick up the pieces and move on too.

[trolloperative]

Yes, she needs practice with dating, but just not so soon after this one ended. It's bad idea.

 

Typically I would agree but OP isn't really the type to sit and reflect. This is the same person that called her friend "jealous" when she suggested an LDR wasn't in her best interest. Hopefully she takes the advice and gets a coach and therapist. Unlikely so she should just go out and have fun. Another poster put it best, this thread is just " feedback on loop"... a journal the OP measures only in pages.

[Redhead14]

Typically I would agree but OP isn't really the type to sit and reflect. This is the same person that called her friend "jealous" when she suggested an LDR wasn't in her best interest. Hopefully she takes the advice and gets a coach and therapist. Unlikely so she should just go out and have fun. Another poster put it best, this thread is just " feedback on loop"... a journal the OP measures only in pages.

 

OP isn't really the type to sit and reflect. - I agree with this statement. However, there is never a better time than the HERE AND NOW to start doing things differently and get out of the loop she's been in and this loop is all about men and marriage and kids. Meanwhile, she's not focusing on all the things that are working for her.

 

she should just go out and have fun -- I doubt that she really would have fun with dating until she can stop mind-f'ing herself. When she stops doing that at least, she'll be able to have a little more fun anyway. And, she can have fun by spending time with friends, family, hobbies/interests, doing new things, etc. for a little while.

 

a journal the OP measures only in pages -- Some day she will look back on all these pages . . . and say WTF???

[Imajerk17]

Well, I absolutely agree with others that it is crazy and wrong of the OP to expect her ex to not move on. But I do think a bit much is made of this guy she met at the bar. Sure, on some level she is enjoying the validation she is getting from him. But it also sounds that she was upfront to him about her situation. As long as she has no expectations beyond a date (which might or might not actually happen), I don't see the problem. I mean, hopefully she gets that it is quite possible he could tell her what she wants to hear in regards to wanting a relationship and she may never hear from him again after that (whether or not sex happens).

 

OP, this is my question though... what would you do differently now in regards to dating, than you would have done 2--3 years ago. What would you do differently in regards to taking responsibility for your expectations, decisions, and actions, instead of just going where your feelings take you, which clearly hasn't worked for you. Anything from the type of guy you'd consider dating--what would make you go on a first date, SECOND date, third date, ect--to how you'd manage expectations is fair game here.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Imajerk17

[venusishername]

[]

 

I guess you are angry because he didn't immediately move to CA to "fight for you"? This isn't the movies. I don't really know what you expected him to do or even expect him to do now. You told him you couldn't date him unless you live in the same city, and you don't live in the same city! And he allegedly couldn't move to CA until at least March. So? You gave him an ultimatum and it backfired. That's what happens. And there is no reason now to stay in contact and keep discussing the issue. You don't want an LDR and right now the two of you are in different cities. It's over and it's time to move on. And the reality is that you two weren't compatible anyway. This breakup isn't just about the distance.

It's interesting that you are only seeing now what a bad decision it was to be in an LDR for the past year, given your dating goals. Other posters in this thread pointed it out to you over the past year, yet you didn't listen. In fact, you don't listen to a lot of the advice you are given. Since what you have done in the past hasn't worked for you, it might be worth considering trying a new approach, as posters in this thread have suggested.

I’m just going through a lot of anger and emotions. No. I didn’t expect him to drop everything and move here right away. What I DID hope for (all along) is that he would commit to a firm date, take action (for example taking an exam to get a license in CA, saving money, applying for work, setting up a place to live, etc. He didn’t do that. That’s ultimately what really hurts.

Clia, he could never commit to any particular date. He talked and talked. It wasn’t “March”. I asked him about a month ago what specifically was “six months” that he was referring to, as far as this current contract ending. He couldn’t give me a straight answer!!! He said, “who knows what will happen, things change and we just have to adapt”. I know that when the contract ends, he would still need to work and that would drag it out there. On top of that he complains that he hasn’t saved any money (WTF?) and so he’d have to hustle that up. I even created a budget template and he had no interest in participating in that. It wouldn’t be March. I’d be sitting here next January possibly still waiting. I knew, by his LACK OF ACTIONS TO MAKE ANY CONCRETE PLANS that he was not going to move here anytime soon. It was just TALK. Last January, he said “six months to a year”. This December, it was “six months to a year”. This is NOTHING new. That’s why I made the decision I did. He even admitted the other day that he was, and I quote him here, “stalling”!

Like Lana said, he didn’t want to move, same as me. I think the “talk” about CA is just “talk”, just like the marriage talk. He wanted to placate me and make me happy. He didn’t want to lose the relationship so he talked about these pillow talk fantasies and never acted on them.

And you are right. There was more to the breakup than distance. I think the reason I engaged in this LDR, despite my dating goals, is because I had hope that it would work out. I am glad that I ended it now rather than drag it out, waiting…

Where are you getting the "acts as if" from? Did you go to premarital counseling together? Did he buy a ring? Did you actually buy property together? At the end of the day you just talked and talked and talked.

Same as his talking about moving to CA in “six months”. Right? No actions.

Also, I'm legitimately shocked you agreed to a joint phone plan before you had any idea what his financial status was like. I just can't, Venus.

You are mistaken, sorry for the misunderstanding. I am referring to my last long term relationship, one in which we lived in the same city, lived together, and shared a phone plan, bought a car, etc. Not this last one.

The desire was to please you and make you happy, Venus. He knew he had to say those things to placate you. Yes, he may have talked about your theoretical wedding party, but he also told you explicitly that he might be ready to marry if he met the one, didn't have time for a relationship, wasn't that interested in marriage and didn't mind being engaged for years. This is a direct contradiction to the marriage talk! Do you know what it means when someone's words aren't consistent? It means they're either confused or insincere. When words don't line up then you have to look at actions, and he was not taking any actions to ensure a long-term future with you.

Yes. I understand. This is what made it confusing though… the words and the actions not lining up. I think I thought it just would take some time. But now I see I could’ve been waiting around forever. I agree, he was not taking any actions to ensure a long term future with me. Except insisting that I move in with him (which to some people meant that he was attempting to progress the relationship), after I repeatedly told him I am against living together before intending to marry. I always felt like he wasn’t listening to me or respecting my feelings about that. It was like he just wanted a live in girlfriend without making any commitment. Sadly, I see this all the time, here on LS, in my friendships, myself in my 20s, etc.

You need to let people prove themselves to you rather than accept what you want to hear so quickly.

That takes time, right? In a LDR it took over a year. In a normal circumstances hopefully this happens within a couple months or so. I get it, Lana. I do.

Do you remember R? He had you on the hook for a long time. You were convinced that he was serious about you because you had made it clear you wanted a real, steady, long-term relationship, and therefore if he continued to spend time with you he obviously felt the same way, QED etc. That is not how it works. That's like saying "my ex hasn't told me to F off and die, therefore he must still love me" (a surprisingly common fallacy). Just because someone does not behave the way you expect does not mean you can draw accurate assessments of their intentions. People will do what they want. R continued to see you occasionally even though he knew you wanted more. A guy might approach you for a date even if he just wants sex. It happens.

Yes, I remember R. Yeah, dating sucks. I would love to be off the market for good and never have to deal with this crap again. That’s the goal.

Think of it like a job interview. You are all ready to fill the position and print out an offer because a guy seemed to have a decent profile and answered a few basic questions correctly. The rest of us are urging you to at least have an interview or two before you make any decisions.

Ok, understood.

 

 

You should have thought "he wants to determine if we have the potential for a serious future together, at which point he might marry me". He pretty much said this directly and you chose not to listen.

OK. Well, I did hear that. But as we have gone over Lana, what he said wasn’t committing or sharing my goals and on the same page and long term plan. I get confused because when I read that sentence, I don’t see a whole lot wrong with that statement at all…… I just was strongly against the living together part, and that was just something we did not agree on. I felt there was no compromise.

Bzuh? Was he supposed to contest your breakup? "How dare he" honor your wishes and respectfully accept your decision? Venus, this is flat-out egomaniacal crazy talk and it's not pretty.

...how was he supposed to respond? "Oh, okay, I'll just upend my entire life immediately without respect to my.family, finances or future and get a ticket to California"? Was he supposed to spend six months (during which you wouldn't be dating) scrambling to be with you? This wasn't just an ultimatum, it was a literal impossibility. If my fiancé told me "I can't be with you anymore unless we're both zebras", I would have to end the relationship because I do not see a feasible path to becoming a zebra.

I was really in bad place yesterday. What I was hoping all along was that he would have taken actions to move to CA all along. He never did. That’s where my anger and regret is coming from.

Of course I didn’t expect him to do that. Of course not. I just have regret and anger, and disappointment that this relationship didn’t work out. I wish there was some action or solution to fix this situation, that’s all. I’ve told him that many times. I’m angry and so disappointed that this did not work out.

I know that there is nothing he can do now. I didn’t issue an ultimatum, expecting him to drop it all with no regard for anything! I said, and meant, “I can’t date you anymore unless we live in the same city”. That means the relationship as it has been, is over. It was incredibly dysfunctional to me to be engaging in a LDR. I did not see that until we broke up.

Serious question: what did you really expect him to do? Issuing an ultimatum and breaking up with someone because they can't meet an impossible condition is a good example of high-maintenance behavior.

I expected him (months ago, many months ago) to take concrete actions to make an effort to close the distance, other than passively insisting that I move in with him to see “if we were compatible”

Now? I didn’t expect him to do anything. I know he can’t leave now. I wasn’t willing to wait and commit completely any longer because I had a feeling that I’d be waiting for quite some time and I wasn’t ok with that, after dedicating over a year to this relationship. Plus, the incompatibilities, all caught up to me.

I’ll say it again, I didn’t expect him to do anything to fix it (because nothing CAN be done by anyone to fix it now), I just wish that he wouldn’t have stalled all this time, as he even admitted he did.

Once again it sounds like the biggest blow in this breakup was to your ego; namely, you can't accept this guy's choice to cut his losses and leave, even though to the rest of us on planet Earth it is clear that he had no other option. I just don't understand how you expected this to end.

This whole self-pitying blather about "but how can I possibly believe anyone?!?!?" has got to go. Venus, you are not a blushing ingenue. You are a woman in your mid-30s with several long-term relationships under your belt. You have experience in the real world. You have seen that what someone says is not necessarily consistent with what they mean. If you proceed in relationships when you are getting mixed signals, that's on you.

I know, Lana. I was feeling very down and sorry for myself yesterday. I’m pulling myself out of it.

 

[]

 

Would you consider yourself a perfectionist? You strike me as one.

 

Perfectionism shows up in many ways, one of which being that perfectionists tend to twist reality to fit their "perfect" image of themselves. Anything else is too threatening.

Perfectionism is a coping mechanism against deep rooted insecurities. My guess is that your deepest insecurity is that you're not worthy of love. It would explain a few of the behaviours you displayed throughout this relationships, namely :

1) Thinking that if he loved you enough he would kowtow to your timeline.

2) Having difficulty accepting that he's not chasing you after the break up.

3) Struggling to distinguish between accountability and self-pity/victimization.

 

I think that, of the 3, the last is the one you most need to work on at a cognitive level. It isn't a direct step from: "I should not have pursued a relationship that didn't lead to my goals of being married and having a family" to "I give up, I am not marriage material etc etc". In fact, the two aren't linked. In statement one, you recognize you made a mistake and you can learn from it. That's where the thought process should end. But your insecurity about being lovable is making it so you jump right into a dramatic mode, one that keeps you away from processing the break up productively.

As to projections, as others have said: there is not much you can glean from one conversation or even from regular texting. You say yourself men tend to find you beautiful. Any guy interested in dating you will do his best to put his best foot forward. Expect no less. Don't jump ahead to thinking this automatically makes him relationship material. All it makes him is interested. No more, no less.

Interesting that you bring this up. Thank you. Yes, I am a perfectionist, and it makes sense that I would tend to twist reality to fit my "perfect" image of myself. I know so many people here have called me out on that but yes, that is the deeply rooted issue.

Venus - it's totally normal to be feeling angry with him, even though he is, in fact, respecting your wishes. Just know that it is an emotional and not rational response, and let them run their course.

Can I ask - what about the rest of your life? What are some goals you have in other areas? If I recall correctly, you work in the legal profession but not as a lawyer (paralegal? legal assistant?) Are you happy with the idea of doing that for the rest of your life? Or is there another career that has always appealed to you?

Thanks, Anna. Yes, it is an emotional response and not rational, I know, as I wrote about above in response to Lana’s posts. I am not truly angry with him. I’m angry at the situation.

I want to get my Master’s degree or teaching credential. I have some GRE books and am planning to take the exam in a couple months. No law school. I would like to advance my position and make more money, but I can’t do that with a Bachelor’s Degree and a certificate.

And then I am sure he just didn't accept the break up immediately. I am sure it was drawn out and coming for a while. It wasn't out of the blue that things weren't great. Again- this wasn't some couple who were blind sided regarding any potential break up. It was imminent. Of course if you were otherwise blissful and the break up was a massive shock to him then you're totally right, he SHOULD have been more shocked and inclined to protest the break up.... but you guys weren't working out too well and he probably senses the bteak up was coming.

Exactly. It was nothing new. It was building for a couple months. Maybe when I came back to CA after our September visit in LA….

Get this. The other day when we talked he said, “I knew you were going to eventually break up with me anyway, because you know what you want and I wasn’t going to be able to give that to you anytime soon.”

Deep down, the romantic ls in us hang onto the initial euphoric falling in love moments and the best friend we have lost- and makes us want our me to come after us.

Yes, thank you for understanding, Leigh. I wasn’t being a b(Tch and stomping my feet and expecting him to come chase me and drop it all right now! It just made me sad that it had to end at all. The romantic in me misses and desires our ‘good’ connection and the romantic love we had.

I'm surprised you're so upset that he's trying to move on. What were you expecting, exactly? You rail on for literal pages that he's not right for you and that you want a local man to date, yet how dare he have some self-respect and not throw himself at your feet?

I agree with whoever recently said you need some professional help. Though I suspect that you tire quickly of therapists when they start telling you things you don't want to hear.

No, I’m not upset that he’s trying to move on and how dare he . It just hurts. I know to many of you I am the bad guy. He’s not right for me. I need a local relationship. He’s not the right guy for me. He knows it and so do I. I have known that for some time and have been trying to convince myself otherwise. The trouble is, I wanted him to be. This is my regret, anger and disappointment coming out when I say things like this. All I mean is that I regret things didn’t work out. I wish there was something someone could do to fix it. But it can’t be fixed.

Going to my therapist tomorrow. I haven’t tired of her, I’ve been going back for about 4 years now. But, you’re right, I need some help right now.

Venus, I'd like to point out, as someone who has read this whole thing, you have the dating aspirations of a woman in her mid-30s (date a serious man who can be a provider, get engaged quickly, marry and have children in a condensed timeframe), but you have the dating style of a 20 year old (meet someone, create fantasies in your head of your life together, date them without regard for who they really are, demand to get your way, get frustrated when you don't, throw tantrum, break up, immediately repeat process).

You are never going to get that serious relationship you want if you don't learn anything about who you are and adjust that to be closer to the kind of person who can actually pick out the kind of men you want.

There are good men who can give you what you want, but they're probably going to look for someone who contributes emotionally (in a heathy way) to the relationship, and you don't seem to be there.

You give me food for thought. Thank you. I can see that having a LDR in and of itself kind of perpetuated the fantasy and drawing lines and comparisons and conclusions without concrete information, etc.

I need to grow up, or at least act more grown up if I want a real relationship. I think that’s why I say I don’t feel capable and that I want to give up… because I’m not there yet. Or haven’t been, anyway. I hope I can make changes to get there very soon. I will do my best.

Edited January 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted responses to banned member and deleted posts ~6

[venusishername]

Do you remember R? He had you on the hook for a long time. You were convinced that he was serious about you because you had made it clear you wanted a real, steady, long-term relationship, and therefore if he continued to spend time with you he obviously felt the same way, QED etc. That is not how it works. That's like saying "my ex hasn't told me to F off and die, therefore he must still love me" (a surprisingly common fallacy). Just because someone does not behave the way you expect does not mean you can draw accurate assessments of their intentions. People will do what they want. R continued to see you occasionally even though he knew you wanted more.

I need some clarification the bolded, Lana. It doesn’t make sense and I read it a couple times over.

In my defense, I realized this within a *fairly* short time… 6 weeks of casually dating…. And put an end to it.

 

I guess you could say “NOLA continued to see you occasionally even though he knew you wanted more” too. And he did do that.

 

It took me longer to realize with my recent… I think falling in love created an illusion of everything being ok and creating hope and wanting it to work out. Whereas you all can look at it objectively, it’s sure hard to do that when you’re in love and have the rose colored glasses on

 

So, here’s where I get stuck. If I say what I want, and a person I'm dating knows how I feel, and if that person continues to spend time with me DESPITE what I have said and what I am looking for, DESPITE the fact that they may deep down want the same thing *with someone, not necessarily with me*, how am I to know unless I spend time with them, that they DON'T share in my intentions, etc.?

 

Isn’t it fair to say that only in time this can be found out, through actions and words, actions following the words?? I mean, you say it in a way admitting that you never know how people are going to act. “People will do what they want”. So if I have specific intentions, and I am very clear on them, is it so wrong to hope that others will be just as clear and honest with theirs, and act accordingly? I’m not sure how to reconcile this. It seems like a crap shoot... that can only be determined by time and observation. So there seems to be no shortcut, really. Am I understanding you?

 

You have seen that what someone says is not necessarily consistent with what they mean. If you proceed in relationships when you are getting mixed signals, that's on you.

I had hope with him. I really did. I wanted to give it time, because I wanted to see if the actions would follow, in time. I felt maybe if I was only patient..it could happen. If he said it, and acted in ways that did show he loved me… it could surely be possible that what he was saying could happen in time. The marriage talk, a life together, planning for the future. He did think about these things with me, of course.

I do think ultimately that he realized that he wasn't able or willing to give me what I was looking for. And that may have been eating at him for some time, that is my guess. He admitted the other day when we talked that "I always thought you might break up with me anyway, because you know what you want and I'm not in a position to give that to you anytime soon."

 

Yet, he continued on. I can see we both clung to hope.

 

Next time, I will listen better, in the beginning, and not pursue a relationship with mixed signals and mostly talk. I just wanted to give it a chance.I thought I was being impatient so I was letting things evolve as they would. And, they did.

Edited January 5, 2017 by venusishername

[No_Go]

Honestly Venus, give yourself credit that you gave it a try instead of beating yourself up - you couldn't know immediately, it takes a good year to get to know someone even if dating locally, let alone long distance. Anything shorter is more of a projection than real knowledge.

 

This relationship would have continued if you moved to him, gave up the child thought for the time being, and agreed to contribute equally if not more to the cost of living of the couple. You were not ok with that and you broke up, logically.

 

He didn't chase you because:

1) he knew he can't give you what you want (he maybe could have married you, but will not give you a child neither become a provider of the family)

2) he was aware that the relationship was going south from quite a while and it was just a matter of time one of you to pull the trigger (all the arguments, crying, lack of desire on your end to move, lack of desire on his end to move and/or at least give you a real timeline)

 

If he decided to chase you after what you told him, I'd be personally shocked and would think he's disrespectful and sociopathic. He didn't because he was real with you.

 

I'm curious how it will go with your therapist. I'm meeting mine as well soon for my own break up, I may contribute with some insights from her.

[lana-banana]

I need some clarification the bolded, Lana. It doesn’t make sense and I read it a couple times over.

 

I'm sorry about that, Venus. That was some wretched grammar on my part. I meant to address your habit of making excuses for men whose actions don't live up to your expectations. When men disappoint you, rather than process it at face value (e.g. "He let me down and I'm not OK with that") you invent elaborate rationales for why it's okay or just deny it altogether ("He didn't really mean what he said", "it was just an offhand comment", "it doesn't matter in the context of the conversation"). And when they do something truly egregious like ghosting you, you're distraught.

 

You don't know these people's intentions and you can't hold them to your standards of behavior. It seems after more than a year of dating your ex you're still in the dark about what he really wanted.

 

In my defense, I realized this within a *fairly* short time… 6 weeks of casually dating…. And put an end to it.

 

Venus, this is a lie. You did not "put an end to" anything with R. He ghosted you and never spoke to you again (see here). If you want to have a successful relationship you need to be honest.

 

So, here’s where I get stuck. If I say what I want, and a person I'm dating knows how I feel, and if that person continues to spend time with me DESPITE what I have said and what I am looking for, DESPITE the fact that they may deep down want the same thing *with someone, not necessarily with me*, how am I to know unless I spend time with them, that they DON'T share in my intentions, etc.?

 

Are you trying to justify wasting so much time in a dead-end LDR? Of course you need to spend time with people to understand their intentions. But you also have to acknowledge and accept evidence that is contrary to what you want to hear---something you have apparently never been able to do.

 

Isn’t it fair to say that only in time this can be found out, through actions and words, actions following the words?? I mean, you say it in a way admitting that you never know how people are going to act. “People will do what they want”. So if I have specific intentions, and I am very clear on them, is it so wrong to hope that others will be just as clear and honest with theirs, and act accordingly? I’m not sure how to reconcile this. It seems like a crap shoot... that can only be determined by time and observation. So there seems to be no shortcut, really. Am I understanding you?

 

Kind of, but not really. It would be one thing if your ex was completely opaque about the future, never bringing it up or making any hints as to what he wanted in the long term. In that case I would understand some confusion. But your ex gave sign after sign after sign that you were not on the same page! He told you he didn't have time for a relationship, he told you he felt ambivalent about marriage even if he met the one*, he told you he was at best merely open to the idea of having kids---and you ignored it!

 

This is not a mystery or some arcane process that requires detective work. If someone gives you repeated signs that they do not share your relationship goals, you have to end it.

 

I had hope with him. I really did. I wanted to give it time, because I wanted to see if the actions would follow, in time. I felt maybe if I was only patient..it could happen. If he said it, and acted in ways that did show he loved me… it could surely be possible that what he was saying could happen in time.

 

Your priorities are in the wrong place. As I mentioned above, he was not some blank canvas that you had to interpret. He was saying "yeah, I don't think I want to marry in the future but I guess maybe if the woman of my dreams really wanted to, even then I don't really see a need, oh well" and all you heard was "I want to marry" and latched onto that like a leech on a life raft.

 

* = if you have been dating someone for nine or more months and they talk about being with "the one" without strongly suggesting that "the one" is probably you, that's a terrible sign. I would have ended it there.

Edited January 5, 2017 by lana-banana

[venusishername]

This relationship would have continued if you moved to him, gave up the child thought for the time being, and agreed to contribute equally if not more to the cost of living of the couple. You were not ok with that and you broke up, logically.

Right. It would have continued longer than it did, if I moved there in October, sure. I remember one time he said, "you could be the breadwinner" and I was hit with a big dose of reality, and I remember looking into the the future that I would probably get hit with the majority of the responsibility (financial and otherwise) if I moved to him, or married him. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with one party making more money than the other, I could picture myself doing a lot more than half of the work to keep up the finances, responsibilities, and child rearing.

And you're right, I didn't want that, therefore, I realized he isn't the right guy for me. Like I've said many times, I want the option to stay home with my child for 6 months to a year and not have to worry so much about money. I personally don't feel that is something I should need to sacrifice. I may not ever have that, but I personally know men who are great providers and stable and secure and want to offer that to their wife.

Let alone be with someone who is irresponsible with money, that's not what I want. I always have worked and paid my own way and I like to work and making my own money and my independence in that way. I'm not looking to be a housewife and be financially supported for the rest of my life. I just need security and stability. He could not provide that. He mentioned a couple times about the mother, that she was "high maintenance". I'm guessing, from the little I know about her, she is a successful and educated woman who did a great job as a single mom who had help from her own parents. If I had to take a guess, I would bargain that he didn't want to and/or couldn't step up and take responsibility in the way she wanted. I drew a comparison to myself, in the future. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the inclination I've been struggling with. I didn't want to get pregnant and have an absentee father who was and is irresponsible with money. I don't have to settle for that!

He didn't chase you because:

1) he knew he can't give you what you want (he maybe could have married you, but will not give you a child neither become a provider of the family)

2) he was aware that the relationship was going south from quite a while and it was just a matter of time one of you to pull the trigger (all the arguments, crying, lack of desire on your end to move, lack of desire on his end to move and/or at least give you a real timeline)

 

If he decided to chase you after what you told him, I'd be personally shocked and would think he's disrespectful and sociopathic. He didn't because he was real with you.

I know. And he knows.

 

I meant to address your habit of making excuses for men whose actions don't live up to your expectations. When men disappoint you, rather than process it at face value (e.g. "He let me down and I'm not OK with that") you invent elaborate rationales for why it's okay or just deny it altogether ("He didn't really mean what he said", "it was just an offhand comment", "it doesn't matter in the context of the conversation"). And when they do something truly egregious like ghosting you, you're distraught.

Ok. Well, why do you think that is? I think it's because maybe because it's easier to do that (deny and rationalize) than to accept that a person you love is disappointing you and making you doubt your own feelings? Ego, right? Good old pride. Perfectionism. I am very hard on myself, that ties into perfectionism and pride. I'm not saying it's justified or healthy, I can just see why it happens.Of course I see where I have done this (rationalize and deny). Obviously, I heard the words, and it did resonate, and sting, and caused me to doubt, but I dismissed his comments as if he would change his mind. Maybe I thought I could change him/them. Over time that feeling in my gut got so loud, after repressing the truth, it came to this. I think maybe I was hoping either what he was saying wasn't true or could be changed, or that our love would 'fix' these differences. Why did I do that? Because I want, I really really want... well, you know what I want. Often, I doubt my own intuition or feelings, thinking "if only I was more patient and understanding, I can't be so quick to judge." I think I thought that with him when things like this came up. Or maybe, I thought things like "I can deal with that, I hope".

 

You don't know these people's intentions and you can't hold them to your standards of behavior. It seems after more than a year of dating your ex you're still in the dark about what he really wanted.

In all honesty, I do think he wants a loving, committed relationship. He just had no interest in rushing into a marriage again, if ever, and was nervous and balked at the thought of more children. I mean, I could see him marrying again eventually, probably. But he did NOT welcome the idea of more children, when he's been struggling for 20 years to support his own. He didn't want a new life to start with me, he wanted me to join his already established life and for me to be a mother figure to his grown daughter. Over time, I saw that.

I felt like.... I want to start a new life with someone, not move into someone's already established life and sacrifice my desire to have a marriage and my own child. If I'm nearing 40 and still not married and childless, then sure, I might be more willing to do that. But I felt I'm still too young to give that up.

 

 

Venus, this is a lie. You did not "put an end to" anything with R. He ghosted you and never spoke to you again (see here). If you want to have a successful relationship you need to be honest.

Ok. You called me on it. I didn't pursue anything further after that. I let it go, although I wrote about it and was upset after for some time.

 

Are you trying to justify wasting so much time in a dead-end LDR? Of course you need to spend time with people to understand their intentions. But you also have to acknowledge and accept evidence that is contrary to what you want to hear---something you have apparently never been able to do.

Yes, I'm trying to justify it. Lana, I think the accumulation of all these things that I didn't want to accept just took time. I acknowledged it but didn't want to accept it at the time. I know. It all added up and that's what brought me to my decision, in my defense. And, I was in love and I had hope.

 

But your ex gave sign after sign after sign that you were not on the same page! He told you he didn't have time for a relationship, he told you he felt ambivalent about marriage even if he met the one*, he told you he was at best merely open to the idea of having kids---and you ignored it!

Recalling, for my own benefit and processing here, he said "I'm in no rush", "I would marry again if it was the right person", "I can see these things with you", "I would be open to having a child, but I would rather we be married first", "you want kids and that makes me nervous", "what if we were engaged for a couple years?", "I feel strongly that we should live together first in order to find out if we're compatible" (this still makes me angry), "I am so busy with work and my kids, etc... sometimes I don't feel I have time for a relationship anyway", "other relationships I've had have ended because I didn't make enough time for them because I was too busy with xyz".

The part about being too busy is something I could be more understanding and sympathetic about. I know in my life before, when I was single, I have thought I was "too busy". But that equates to not being available or capable of committing. When I said that kind of thing before myself, I had no interest in a serious relationship. That's when I used Tinder and jumped in to bed on the first night.

 

 

Reading back on these comments, and I have a good memory so I am recalling the exact words, I can see throughout, very clearly, he is and was noncommittal. Calling everyday and sending sweet messages and being loving and caring and sweet and planning trips does not equal that he is capable of making any commitment to anything long term. He can't even commit to the month and location he would have moved if he moved to CA.

Even though I didn't accept it as it came, Lana, I did accept it after all. You have to at least give me that.

If someone gives you repeated signs that they do not share your relationship goals, you have to end it.

OK, I just I did. It just took me a year. Not next time. That angst I was feeling, all the "pages and pages" I wrote here that people complain about, it was me denying the reality and hoping it would change to fit my desires. It was unsettling and causing me an emotional rollercoaster. It didn't feel "right". And this is why. I should have trusted my intuition sooner, I just wasn't confident enough in it, I suppose. And well... in denial because I truly did love him and hoped this could be "it".

 

* = if you have been dating someone for nine or more months and they talk about being with "the one" without strongly suggesting that "the one" is probably you, that's a terrible sign. I would have ended it there.

 

Ugh, well... he said things like "I can see marriage with you", and as you know he said a lot about "if we were married", the bridesmaid and ring talk, the elopement talk, etc. He said that he DID think about these things with me and yes, I think that at one point he did think I was probably "the one". He told me I was the only one who xyz, he never had a relationship like this before, etc. He talked as if I could be the one. He did.

I truly do feel that at times throughout our relationship he did think of me in that way.

 

 

However, the fact that after 9 months or so, nothing materialized in a concrete fashion and he "stalled" as he admitted himself, was reason enough for me to end it, on top of the other things. After October, things just kind of started to crumble. I think that's when it all finally hit me and I was very unhappy and realized this was going nowhere fast. I mean, NoGo is right, it would have likely continued on if I had moved there, etc. But if I'm being really honest with myself, and I have been, and it's hard... I would have been unhappy and lonely for another "six months" waiting for him to get here, at an unknown time and location. I re-read the thread since the start of the relationship and often here I would say, "I don't want to be in this same position a year from now". That was last January. I held true to my word, I had to.

 

On another note, he has been calling me for the past two nights, around the time that he usually gets off and has some time in the car to drive home. Coincidentally, I heard nothing all weekend over the holidays, except for a text or two on NYE day. I don't answer, but I have texted back in response occasionally. We did talk the other day.

I think he's trying to be "friends" or something and this is the way he thinks we can do that. He always tells me I can call him to talk but he doesn't press.

On the other hand, he's just lonely or passing time and in habit, calls me to talk. He can call someone else. Maybe that woman that I've seen in his FB pictures a couple times that he dismissed as a dancing partner months ago. I believed it but I saw a couple pics on NYE and she was there, in a group setting. I feel like he's just dialing any number of women at any given time. I never felt like I was the only one he was talking to, or had a "relationship" with.

 

One of my posts in reply to someone's comment was deleted earlier. But I had mentioned how uncomfortable and inappropriate I felt it was that he had so many female friends. Of course it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex. I do. But I don't have secretive relationships with my male friends, particularly if I'm in a relationship. He would have tourists and guests stay at his house overnight and spend time touring them around. Then I'd see pictures of him with a woman or some woman would make a comment on his FB and I'd feel uneasy. I wanted to believe that he's just friendly and he's devoted to me, he is home alone at the end of the night and he calls me then, etc. He invited the female attention, like all the time. And it was very inappropriate. It always really bothered me but I tried not to be jealous or feel insecure. When I was with him this last time, I saw he was getting multiple texts from a "Tamara". He never mentioned a Tamara. If it's a friend, cool, no reason to hide that, right?

When I saw him in CA before, in November, he was texting with the woman I saw he was with this NYE. If it's a person you spend regular time with, like a friend, I would think you would be glad to mention that person. Like "hey, my friend Joe and I are going to a party to meet some friends", remember I told you about him, or you met him?" I always thought if he had female friends he would be very forthcoming about that. He wasn't. Anyway, all that was in response to him calling me tonight. Since I didn't answer, I can't help but wonder if he tried calling someone else.

 

Additionally, that guy I met last week (who introduced himself at the bar) has been texting me since, every other day or so. He went out of town over the past few days but contacted me tonight and said he would still like to see me and hasn't forgotten about the invitation he made last week. And asked if I would be free this weekend. I said I would be.

 

Now don't jump down my throat. I think it's ok that I accept a date, nothing more, with this guy that I enjoyed talking to and who I think is being polite and considerate. I'm not throwing myself into a new relationship. I don't think it is a good idea to take a lot of time off dating, nor should I refuse a date with someone who is someone I would like to get to know more. Of course I'm still going through the ashes of a breakup, I'm still hurting, I'm still broken. It may not be fair to get involved right now with someone new but I don't see the harm in having a date, just a date. It's just a date. If I put too much pressure on it it's a bad idea. How about the idea of just getting to know someone who you enjoyed talking with and find each other attractive, no expectations, it doesn't have to mean anything or that you're committing to seeing them again even. I've been asked out more times in the past month than I was in a year of dating my ex. I don't want to dismiss potential opportunities here in my own city! Seems like lately they've been coming from all angles.

 

I want to ease into it, I think he seems nice and polite and has kept a connection with me based off one meeting and a conversation around a group of intoxicated friends, (I was surprised) Considering we met at a bar *shock! of all places to meet someone single!* I think it might do me some good just to put myself out there again. Baby steps, I promise.

I already told him I was coming out of a LDR and that I ended it. He asked if my ex was going to show up and try to win me back. I said no, he won't.

 

 

Of course I'm not completely and totally ready to get involved with anyone right this second but I would like to put forth SOME efforts soon to be closer to it soon. I mean, maybe starting off as just friends. Who knows. I think that would be acceptable. To go out for a drink or coffee with him. Maybe even a daytime thing so it feels less pressure.

 

I kinda have a feeling my ex, although heartbroken like I have been, is already moving on, or trying to. He has said so. So I should too, at least try. I don't see any real harm in just being open again, slowly and with caution. If it turns out we hit it off and we like each other and want to see each other again, I can be honest and let him know I'm not quite ready yet and I just am coming out of this situation and maybe for the time being we can just be friends and get to know each other that way. I think that would be ok, if that happened.

Edited January 5, 2017 by venusishername

[introverted1]

 

Additionally, that guy I met last week (who introduced himself at the bar) has been texting me since, every other day or so. He went out of town over the past few days but contacted me tonight and said he would still like to see me and hasn't forgotten about the invitation he made last week. And asked if I would be free this weekend. I said I would be.

 

Now don't jump down my throat. I think it's ok that I accept a date, nothing more, with this guy that I enjoyed talking to and who I think is being polite and considerate. I'm not throwing myself into a new relationship. I don't think it is a good idea to take a lot of time off dating, nor should I refuse a date with someone who is someone I would like to get to know more. Of course I'm still going through the ashes of a breakup, I'm still hurting, I'm still broken. It may not be fair to get involved right now with someone new but I don't see the harm in having a date, just a date. It's just a date. If I put too much pressure on it it's a bad idea. How about the idea of just getting to know someone who you enjoyed talking with and find each other attractive, no expectations, it doesn't have to mean anything or that you're committing to seeing them again even. I've been asked out more times in the past month than I was in a year of dating my ex. I don't want to dismiss potential opportunities here in my own city! Seems like lately they've been coming from all angles.

 

Of course I'm not completely and totally ready to get involved with anyone right this second but I would like to put forth SOME efforts soon to be closer to it soon. I mean, maybe starting off as just friends. Who knows. I think that would be acceptable. To go out for a drink or coffee with him. Maybe even a daytime thing so it feels less pressure.

 

I kinda have a feeling my ex, although heartbroken like I have been, is already moving on, or trying to. He has said so. So I should too, at least try. I don't see any real harm in just being open again, slowly and with caution. If it turns out we hit it off and we like each other and want to see each other again, I can be honest and let him know I'm not quite ready yet and I just am coming out of this situation and maybe for the time being we can just be friends and get to know each other that way. I think that would be ok, if that happened.

 

Venus, this is terrible. How do you think it's ok to use another person to help you feel better about yourself? You admit above that you are broken (!!!) and that a lot of your motivation is to match the moving on you believe your ex is doing. How on earth is this the right thing to do to a new guy who has no idea how UN-ready you are? You have not done any of the work on yourself that is needed for you to be a good, healthy partner.

 

More than anything you've written, this disregard for another person truly dismays me.

[Leigh 87]

Poor Venus.

 

I am hurting a lot too. So I really feel you right now. After so many non starts with men who you felt excited about...... finally we really felt like we could have something special. They become the focal point of your life.

 

I think you are underestimating how devestated you are. It will hit you.

 

I am also excited about dating again and being free and available. But it would only end in tears if I were to date again! I would probably feel a very empty and hollow feeling during or after making out for the first time with a new guy; no one will compare to what we had with our exes for a good while.

 

We both had true chemistry and a real connection. That is rare and you're kidding yourself if you feel ready to just sleep with new men any time soon. The reality that you lost him will just hit you so hard if you go dating around too soon.

 

Take care of yourself.

 

Feel hopeful and excited about new horizons but don't go doing anything yet.

[lana-banana]

Additionally, that guy I met last week (who introduced himself at the bar) has been texting me since, every other day or so. He went out of town over the past few days but contacted me tonight and said he would still like to see me and hasn't forgotten about the invitation he made last week. And asked if I would be free this weekend. I said I would be.

 

Now don't jump down my throat. I think it's ok that I accept a date, nothing more, with this guy that I enjoyed talking to and who I think is being polite and considerate. I'm not throwing myself into a new relationship. I don't think it is a good idea to take a lot of time off dating, nor should I refuse a date with someone who is someone I would like to get to know more. Of course I'm still going through the ashes of a breakup, I'm still hurting, I'm still broken. It may not be fair to get involved right now with someone new but I don't see the harm in having a date, just a date. It's just a date. If I put too much pressure on it it's a bad idea. How about the idea of just getting to know someone who you enjoyed talking with and find each other attractive, no expectations, it doesn't have to mean anything or that you're committing to seeing them again even. I've been asked out more times in the past month than I was in a year of dating my ex. I don't want to dismiss potential opportunities here in my own city! Seems like lately they've been coming from all angles.

 

I want to ease into it, I think he seems nice and polite and has kept a connection with me based off one meeting and a conversation around a group of intoxicated friends, (I was surprised) Considering we met at a bar *shock! of all places to meet someone single!* I think it might do me some good just to put myself out there again...Of course I'm not completely and totally ready to get involved with anyone right this second but I would like to put forth SOME efforts soon to be closer to it soon. I mean, maybe starting off as just friends. Who knows. I think that would be acceptable. To go out for a drink or coffee with him. Maybe even a daytime thing so it feels less pressure...

I don't see any real harm in just being open again, slowly and with caution.

 

I don't believe in waiting X amount of time before dating again. I am the biggest advocate for getting back out there, maybe before you feel quite ready to go, just to get yourself into the groove and remind yourself what dating is like. If it were anyone else in this thread, possibly even Leigh, I'd say go for it! Get out there and try again! But this is your thread, Venus, and you are a special case.

 

It's not clear to me that you can date casually. You describe your situations with R and A as casual, and indeed they were, but your feelings were anything but. By your own admission male attention is your drug of choice, and as soon as you get a fix you're a goner. You don't remain detached or ambivalent about anyone. As soon as you get a hint they might be into you you are all in, and then it turns into a game of trying desperately to mask your disproportionately strong feelings until they give hints that they feel the same way. Your ex was the only guy I've encountered on these threads who seemed to reciprocate, but in a way that suggested he was very impulsive too (he said "I love you" after six weeks, which was a strong indicator to me of his own issues). I think it's strange that you've been unable to retain any man's interest and attention in a conventional, everyday dating relationship, for a very long time. Why is it that your most successful relationship has been with a man who almost never saw you?

 

Your male attention addiction is reason enough to put the brakes on dating for a while. Even if it wasn't, all the talk about how hurt and broken you are, plus the wishing you were married to an ex who STALKED YOU, isn't a red flag so much as a solar flare that you are in a terrible mental and emotional place. Your therapist can no doubt offer better insight than we can, but if it's evident to the internet that you aren't doing well, the men you meet in person will pick up on it quickly too.

[Weezy1973]

Just going on a date for you is like an alcoholic saying "what's wrong with just one little drink..."

 

A lot is wrong with it.