When it rains it pours

[losangelena]

If this ever happens again, remember that becoming so available to someone before you've even met is something that you shouldn't participate in. It's okay to respond once in awhile, and be friendly when you do, but don't go all-in just because someone else goes all-in. Frankly, that behavior should have you questioning their judgement, not twirling around in a dress singing "my prince has come".

 

Interest =/= commitment and stability.

Interest =/= commitment and stability.

Interest =/= commitment and stability.

 

Sheesh, between you and Leigh87, it's like you think chemistry and interest are the most important factors, but they're actually the most ephemeral.

 

In the future, someone who comes on strong very quickly is also likely to disappear very quickly. They don't even know you so how could they actually be so interested? It's a sign that you should step back and guard your heart.

 

Ding, ding, ding! I agree, and have been saying this from the get-go.

 

In my experience, the men who come on the strongest in the beginning, the ones who went all-out on date one, are the ones who didn't last in the long-run. You run into this enough times and you get skeptical—you HAVE to. When my now-bf and I were in the messaging stage, he made a comment, something about him being willing to drive a ways to meet, "the right girl," and I rolled my eyes. It was a point against him! He had no idea if I was "the right girl" before he met me, and it made me think less of him for a while. He eventually overcame that remark, but my point is, that's the level of skepticism I'd recommend having.

[idoltree]

Well then, I'm having a hard time grasping what's the point of being detached, creating space, etc. if there is no guarantee?? Why not just go for it blindly and hope it works out?? You say go in logically. But all's fair in love and war. That's why I keep saying screw the rules.

Because there is never ever ever going to be a guarantee. Dating and relationships are a two way street and you are two people with different backgrounds, preferences, and desires to work through problems that arise.

 

You keep using the word rules. Note that I have never used it because I don't see the point of rules. That doesn't mean throwing common sense to the wind and "going for it" despite you not even knowing the person yet and disregarding potential red flags. You don't put MORE faith in emotions and attraction, which we can conclude just from this thread, are probably not leading you in the right direction.

 

There is a whole lot of grey area between disregarding common sense and following your emotions and hard and fast rules, so please don't act like it's one or the other.

 

Again, communication involves complex signaling. It's not only verbal (or in your case, typed), it's body language, posture, facial expressions, eyebrow movements, tone, what you choose to say versus what you choose not to say, frequency of communication, response times, and on and on. People pick up on cues about how you are thinking and feeling by the things you do and don't do. It's not just about what you say/type.

 

So, all I have been saying is a different approach (note: not a rule) accounting for the fact that you are giving off signals to these guys that you fall for quickly that have been impeding their ability to grow closer to you. You choose emotionally unavailable men to target with your very early affections, then you signal that you are full on ~In This.~ You are not keeping space, you are not keeping skepticism, you are clearly not judging whether HE is right for YOU. Instead, you concentrate on whether HE is INTERESTED in YOU. Guys are most likely picking up on this.

 

And, again, none of this matters if the guy is a douche. But you've no way of knowing that without meeting and interacting. So some are going to fizzle out no matter what you do.

 

Also, I acknowledge that dating and finding a good guy who is available and where there is mutual attraction and good timing is a game of luck. Sometimes it just sucks. But if you're noticing a pattern with the guys that you meet, the only logical conclusion is to take a good look at yourself, because you are the common denominator. You are choosing these guys to become interested in.

 

What I'd like is for you to have all of this down by the time that you meet a great guy, so that you allow him the space to come closer to you.

 

That doesn't involve throwing your hands up as if you are totally passive and cannot make some changes in your life. It involves introspection, looking at why you concentrate more on what the guy wants than what you want, why their interest/approval matters to you so much, and operating from a secure place where you 100% know that you are a catch and you deserve a good guy to appreciate you and keep you safe.

[venusishername]

You choose emotionally unavailable men to target with your very early affections, then you signal that you are full on ~In This.~ You are not keeping space, you are not keeping skepticism, you are clearly not judging whether HE is right for YOU. Instead, you concentrate on whether HE is INTERESTED in you. Guys are most likely picking up on this.

 

 

It involves introspection, looking at why you concentrate more on what the guy wants than what you want, why their interest/approval matters to you so much, and operating from a secure place where you 100% know that you are a catch and you deserve a good guy to appreciate you and keep you safe.

 

 

Wow. I've noticed on LS that there's usually been one or two posters (in my experience) who really say it in a way that makes sense and gets to the core.

I really appreciate this: this is so helpful. I think that's the switch I need to make. I doubt this question can be answered: but I wonder what 'cues' make them to be 'likely picking up on this' as you say. Just for example in my most recent interaction with M. I don't see how I was all "IN THIS" no more than he seemed to be just for example of the frequency of communication...

Same for with A. I thought it was about having basic standards of expectations in how I was treated in the early stages of dating (does that make sense?) For example, I need to know if we're on the same page as far as what we are looking for...

Was it that I was too trusting?? What 'signs' did I give off? Responding to texts? Agreeing to meet again when he said he'd love to see me?

Just trying to understand.

I get it that interest level is only one factor to be aware of: I'm just kind of focusing on that. I've given the ones who seem genuinely interested my attention.

Edited January 22, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

Wow. I've noticed on LS that there's usually been one or two posters (in my experience) who really say it in a way that makes sense and gets to the core.

I really appreciate this: this is so helpful. I think that's the switch I need to make.

 

Yes, you do! Especially since toward the bottom of your post you referred to giving the guys who are interested your attention. That is bass ackwards, darlin'.

 

You should be focusing on who you like, and why you like them, not be so concerned about how they feel about you. I understand that you're human and you won't get to 100% consistency, but when you concentrate on how they feel about you, you have this vibe of wanting their approval. You will give off signals of that via all those subtle modes of communication I talked about in my last post.

 

One really simple change you can make is to change your lens. Every guy is to be evaluated from a standpoint of "what does he have to offer me?" You will hold off on giving your heart and too much of your time until you've been on at least a few dates and he's met your standards.

 

Imagine yourself on a date with a guy (we'll call him Guy 1) who is clearly trying to please you. Looking at everything you do, hanging on every word, not disagreeing with anything you say. Guy 1 clearly wants you to like him so badly. You lose a little respect for him, because why isn't Guy 1 seeing if you're a good fit for him? This makes you feel a little uncomfortable and you want to distance yourself. One day you get some free time last minute, and you reach out to Guy 1. He jumps at the chance to see you. You feel a little more uncomfortable.

 

Now imagine a date with a guy (Guy 2) who is flirtatious, but holds back. He listens to what you say, but has an opinion and voices it. You feel like you're auditioning a little bit, but that's okay, because it makes sense that a healthy early dating dynamic would be both people seeing if the other is a good fit. Guy 2 maintains his integrity, knows what he wants, and clearly isn't going to settle for less. You feel like you have to sell yourself, like you're on a mini job interview. But the strange thing is that you don't feel uncomfortable, you don't feel like you need to distance yourself. Quite the opposite, since this guy continues to intrigue you. One day, you get some free time at the last minute, and you reach out to Guy 2. He flirtatiously tells you that he already has plans. You are a little bummed, but you can't get Guy 2 off your mind. That's a man with value and self-respect, and it's attractive.

 

You want to be the female version of Guy 2. Right now, you're the female version of Guy 1.

 

Using this new lens through which you view the guys you go out with, M would have failed and you wouldn't have been attached to him when he did. First, you'd have noticed that he was seeking an overly familiar dynamic by texting frequently, and thought it was odd rather than feeling flattered. You'd have noticed he asked you out last minute, and thinking it important that you stand up for how you want to be treated during the time a guy should be going out of his way to treat you well, said that you regret you couldn't meet him on such short notice.

 

I doubt this question can be answered: but I wonder what 'cues' make them to be 'likely picking up on this' as you say. Just for example in my most recent interaction with M. I don't see how I was all "IN THIS" no more than he seemed to be just for example of the frequency of communication...

I have a specific one and a general one. He asked you out last minute after you'd been on only one date and you accommodated him in your schedule. That gave him a signal that you are placing him as a priority in your life and that he lifts a finger and you'll jump.

 

Are you not worth someone valuing your time early on and scheduling to see you well in advance? I understand, his plans changed last minute... you could have replied to his invitation "So sweet you want to spend that time with me! I'm afraid I'm busy, though. Catch ya when you're back in town ;)"

 

The general one is letting him dictate an overly familiar and frequent amount of texting. Yes, you only responded to him, but the message that you communicated beyond the words you said was that you are okay with rapid pace and will respond to him.

 

Someone operating from a place of logic rather than emotion and wanting validation would think "Huh. This guy's pretty enthusiastic. But that's weird, because we've never even met. He's putting me on a pedestal I can't possibly live up to, and his pace is so overly familiar that it makes me uncomfortable. A bit of a red flag. I'm going to not respond to everything he sends and take my time responding when I do. We'll see if he picks up on my signal that I'm not digging him texting so often."

 

Same for with A. I thought it was about having basic standards of expectations in how I was treated in the early stages of dating (does that make sense?) For example, I need to know if we're on the same page as far as what we are looking for...

I was reading your thread toward the tail end of A, so I'm afraid I'm not the expert on that. I don't remember the details. Perhaps one of your other ladies can chime in.

 

I get it that interest level is only one factor to be aware of: I'm just kind of focusing on that. I've given the ones who seem genuinely interested my attention.

Argh! Edited January 22, 2015 by idoltree

[venusishername]

You should be focusing on who you like, and why you like them, not be so concerned about how they feel about you. I understand that you're human and you won't get to 100% consistency, but when you concentrate on how they feel about you, you have this vibe of wanting their approval. You will give off signals of that via all those subtle modes of communication I talked about in my last post.

One really simple change you can make is to change your lens. Every guy is to be evaluated from a standpoint of "what does he have to offer me?" You will hold off on giving your heart and too much of your time until you've been on at least a few dates and he's met your standards.

Of course I'm not putting ALL of my focus on how someone feels about me, of course I'm already at the standpoint of 'what does he have to offer me?' I don't understand what the problem is.

I suppose in the case of M, I was very impressed by him, he seemed to have a lot to offer, I was interested, he was also interested, it seemed a no brainer. I realize it was built up far too much too soon, before really knowing. By the time we met, I felt there was so much excitement and anticipation built up it was hard not to want to impress him to not disappoint. I couldn't be totally aloof. I'm sure the feeling was mutual. But I wasn't just sitting there like a bimbo trying to win him over. I FELT I was being cautiously open and the one conducting the mini interview as you mention below.

 

Imagine yourself on a date with a guy (we'll call him Guy 1) who is clearly trying to please you. Looking at everything you do, hanging on every word, not disagreeing with anything you say. Guy 1 clearly wants you to like him so badly. You lose a little respect for him, because why isn't Guy 1 seeing if you're a good fit for him? This makes you feel a little uncomfortable and you want to distance yourself. One day you get some free time last minute, and you reach out to Guy 1. He jumps at the chance to see you. You feel a little more uncomfortable.

 

Now imagine a date with a guy (Guy 2) who is flirtatious, but holds back. He listens to what you say, but has an opinion and voices it. You feel like you're auditioning a little bit, but that's okay, because it makes sense that a healthy early dating dynamic would be both people seeing if the other is a good fit. Guy 2 maintains his integrity, knows what he wants, and clearly isn't going to settle for less. You feel like you have to sell yourself, like you're on a mini job interview. But the strange thing is that you don't feel uncomfortable, you don't feel like you need to distance yourself. Quite the opposite, since this guy continues to intrigue you. One day, you get some free time at the last minute, and you reach out to Guy 2. He flirtatiously tells you that he already has plans. You are a little bummed, but you can't get Guy 2 off your mind. That's a man with value and self-respect, and it's attractive.

You want to be the female version of Guy 2. Right now, you're the female version of Guy 1.

I see what you are getting at, but again, I didn't sit there with eyes glazed over agreeing with everything he said, like a dumb bimbo eager to please. Ultimately, I didn't put much thought into how I was acting; I was just myself. It was easy, it was fun and light. I knew I just had to show up and I was of the mindset of: let's see what he's really about.. if all this prelude adds up in reality... let's see how HE acts, the indicators HE shows, etc. I thought I was Guy #2. If I put him off being Guy 1, I don't think he would've been so excited after our date.

 

As for the 'last minute' plans: I admit, I was surprised that he asked so soon, but I figured a noon text telling me so was fair notice. I responded that would be nice.. that I had plans that afternoon and nothing concrete was lined up for later yet. Didn't hear until dinnertime. Are you telling me that I became Guy 1 when I agreed to meet? Even though he'd asked earlier? Was I supposed to say "I'm so sorry.. I know you said you'd like to meet me for a drink around/after your previously made dinner plans. But I didn't hear back from you during the afternoon to confirm a specific time, so I've already lined up a much more exciting night of going to the gym and Netflix. I'd MUCH rather sit at home than go to a romantic oceanfront lounge with YOU."

He made it very appealing by expressing this 'urgency' to see me. I thought that contacting me during his dinner was my cue that it was sincere. Are you telling me that my acceptance of his invitation made me unattractive and seem desperate?

To me, if I had said what you suggested (see the Netflix response), that's playing games and hard to get. I KNOW the concept is: 'hey.. you didn't get back to me for a couple hours. I didn't know if I could count on your word, so I made alternate plans.' I still thought a 6:00 reaching out was still a considerate advance notice for post-dinner. Plus, isn't this supposed to be fun and light? No concrete and hard fast rules and deadlines?? He seemed urgent to see me (which is exciting and validating) and that clouded my logic and caution, I admit. I wanted to be available so I could feel MORE excitement and validation.. is that a CRIME?

 

You'd have noticed he asked you out last minute, and thinking it important that you stand up for how you want to be treated during the time a guy should be going out of his way to treat you well, said that you regret you couldn't meet him on such short notice.

I understand, his plans changed last minute... you could have replied to his invitation "So sweet you want to spend that time with me! I'm afraid I'm busy, though. Catch ya when you're back in town ;)"

 

 

Are you saying that late morning notice for the evening date is not sufficient? All I said was 'yes, that would be nice (to meet you for a drink)' I didn't agree until he kept contacting me several hours later. I dunno.. to me, he had asked in advance.

Again, I get the point you are making. I also agree he should have been going out of his way to treat me well. Whether or not he thought I was too accommodating that night by agreeing to meet him at some point that evening... the end result was that he didn't treat me well by flaking and not letting me know, especially after he said he would. You should see the length of the messages he was sending me. I had every indication this guy was SUPER excited to see me. WTF? How could it go from all that to 'eh'.. now I'm uncomfortable'.

My point is, if he was already feeling 'uncomfortable' and thinking I was Guy 1, why all the urgency to get out of there and see me?! I don't think it was the fact that I agreed to meet him. It was nothing I did or didn't do. Which is why I'm not ascribing to your Guy 1 and Guy 2 scenarios above.

Honestly, honestly... he was on the other side of town and the 'plan' was he was going to come to mine. No matter what I did or said up until that point, he found it the easier option to just stay put, continue drinking, and talk to another pretty woman instead. Look, even if I had said I have other plans, the end result would be the same.

BUT.. he should've gotten back to me earlier, right?? THEN would I be Guy 2?? This seems so arbitrary.

Someone operating from a place of logic rather than emotion and wanting validation would think "Huh. This guy's pretty enthusiastic. But that's weird, because we've never even met. He's putting me on a pedestal I can't possibly live up to, and his pace is so overly familiar that it makes me uncomfortable. A bit of a red flag. I'm going to not respond to everything he sends and take my time responding when I do. We'll see if he picks up on my signal that I'm not digging him texting so often."

 

I did think those things. I guess I eventually gave into his enthusiasm because for obvious reasons it equated interest and that was validating. It did make me a bit uncomfortable at first. But then it turned to excitement and feeling good so the logic went out the window. I didn't respond always. I only responded when it was convenient. BUT... the red flag seemed to disappear...again, I just equated it with excitement and anticipation. I see how it's a red flag. I just didn't want to see it as a red flag anymore. I thought maybe I shouldn't put so much thought into it and not to worry. I wanted to trust there was no red flag and it was just my insecurities and hangups.

 

I was reading your thread toward the tail end of A, so I'm afraid I'm not the expert on that. I don't remember the details. Perhaps one of your other ladies can chime in.

 

I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to dissect and analyze this and bring up very important reflections and suggestions!! It is sooo helpful. Thank you.

With A, I'm not quite sure what the EXACT issue was: we were incompatible maturity-wise and sexually. So... in the end, no matter what I did or didn't do or say, or if I was Guy 1 or Guy 2, the end result would be the same. As for M as well I think. Like Lissvarna suggests... any other woman would likely experience the same thing with these men.

I'm not completely passive here, but I thought I was doing most of this right.

Edited January 22, 2015 by venusishername

[lil_missy]

I don't think M's invite was too last min, noon notice for night event is perfectly fine for something casual. A guy interested in you is not going to get turned off because you're available to him. The guy I'm seeing now called me out last min a few times in the beginning, I alwys agreed coz I wasn't doing anything. But he wasn't turned off now he always plans ahead to see me and accommodates my schedule.

 

I think the problem with M was he was never invested in the first place. But you were. You say he is rich successful and good looking so he must have a lot of options. Usually people with a bit of dating experience would not be invested in someone without having even met them. The texting day and night means nothing, lots of guys do this its Prob just his personality.

 

you thought he was showing consistent interest but I would disagree. A few weeks of sustained contact is too short too say whether it's consistent. As you now can see, consistency has dropped off.

 

I think you just invest yourself too soon in general. Even though you say you don't care, but you do. It happens to everyone though so don't feel too bad.

 

I'm just worried the same thing will happen with R where u say ur not looking for anything but fun. Then you invariably become invested and its hurt all over again. I have been there and done that and I personally have not been able to do casual relationships.

Edited January 22, 2015 by lil_missy

[idoltree]

Venus, you've given me an impossible task and it is quite frustrating to be on this end of it.

 

You asked my opinion and I gave it. I am not there to know every detail of what happened. Imagine taking the time to write to someone, discussing an overall theme of behavior. Then that person requests examples, you try to provide them even though you're only working on the information they've chosen to provide in previous posts, only to have them seize on some small piece of the examples and argue and defend and try to tell you why what you just said isn't true.

 

And your arguments are getting nowhere with me. All I have to do is compare your words versus your actions. Just as you should be critically evaluating the men you date in with these very simple criteria, I am able to critically evaluate you. Your words don't match your actions:

 

• Someone calm and centered about dating would not have a thread up like this. I'm not saying there is something wrong with that - quite the opposite, since sharing your experiences is helping others. But you are clearly anxious and uncertain about dating, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here. That's not criticism, just an observation.
  

 

• Someone evaluating the fit of men from a detached perspective would not be falling hard and fast as you tend to do. One only has to look back on your posts in the early days of meeting these guys to see how excited you are and how much energy and thought you pour into getting to know someone new. Someone centered would have more of a balance, and hold off on letting that person into their psyche until that person has proven reliable (not just "interested").
  

 

• Someone who describes herself as cool and detached and "acting like herself" would not have described herself as a people pleaser a mere few posts back.
  

I am trying to help you. You seem to want feedback, but only if it's "you're perfect and you did everything exactly as it should be in order to give things the best chance of working out." It's like you not only want the validation of the men you date, but the posters here, too.

 

You're not perfect, and that's okay. You're you. I'm trying to offer you suggestions on how to improve, so that you have the best chance of achieving the outcome that you want.

 

I maintain that you give off every indication of wanting to connect and wanting approval from the men that you date that you do not allow them the space to want to move closer to you. You operate from insecurity and not confidence. You focus so much on whether they like you (whether they are "interested") that you lose track on whether you like them, and they can tell.

 

Again, not every dating experience is going to move toward a happy passionate committed relationship. Some never can get off the ground due to the two people or the circumstances surrounding those people. With the rest of them, there is potential, and acting in ways that we know attract others and provide the psychological conditions to allow a new relationship dynamic to thrive gives the best shot of success. It is here that you are flailing.

 

People are constantly giving off all sorts of subconscious signals during the initial stages of dating. Give off signals of insecurity, and insecure guys (in a different way than you) are going to be who you attract. And if you attract insecure guys, you're going to get this wishy-washy behavior, because insecurity involves either going to the extreme of anxiously wanting approval or sabotaging yourself and pushing people away. So with two people operating from insecurity, you operate more on the anxious/approval-seeking spectrum, and you attract men on the pushing away/sabotaging end of the spectrum. Become more balanced, and you will attract more balanced men.

 

So you need to work on yourself to increase the caliber of guys you attract. This working on yourself will also have the side effect of no longer needing their validation, no longer looking to the men you develop early crushes on and how "interested" they are in you as a marker of your own worth. And in eliminating these factors, you will allow them space to want to come closer to you.

 

Overall, I'd urge you to become more introspective. You are very focused on the external, the outward. You think yourself passive and powerless to change circumstances due to the external. You have to start delving into your own psyche and ask yourself "Why did I choose that action instead of this other one?" and "What could be driving this thought pattern?" and "If I were dating me, how might I perceive my actions? What is the subconscious signaling I might be giving off?" It is in this way that you will start to understand how you operate, and be able to make some conscious changes to your subconscious thought and behavior patterns.

[venusishername]

A guy interested in you is not going to get turned off because you're available to him.

I don't get it. Aren't all of you telling me not to be too available??

I'm so confused. If I get the 'right' guy, THEN I can be available? Huh?

 

I think the problem with M was he was never invested in the first place. But you were. You say he is rich successful and good looking so he must have a lot of options. Usually people with a bit of dating experience would not be invested in someone without having even met them. The texting day and night means nothing, lots of guys do this its Prob just his personality.

I also have a lot of options. I'm educated, have a good career, and am attractive. Yet I'm single. So?

I don't see how I was so INVESTED. I was just excited.. but I agree, I was fighting an internal battle not to get so excited about it because I didn't know.

 

I'm just worried the same thing will happen with R where u say ur not looking for anything but fun. Then you invariably become invested and its hurt all over again. I have been there and done that and I personally have not been able to do casual relationships.

Well, I haven't heard from him anyway so that may be an issue I won't have to worry about. I already know that it would just be casual for me and I already know I wouldn't get invested because he's not someone I see myself being in a relationship with in the long run. It seems safe and my heart would be out of it.

 

I maintain that you give off every indication of wanting to connect and wanting approval from the men that you date that you do not allow them the space to want to move closer to you. You operate from insecurity and not confidence. You focus so much on whether they like you (whether they are "interested") that you lose track on whether you like them, and they can tell.

I know you are trying to help. I'm working through it and that's why I'm nitpicking what you say. I'm taking it in.

 

With the rest of them, there is potential, and acting in ways that we know attract others and provide the psychological conditions to allow a new relationship dynamic to thrive gives the best shot of success. It is here that you are flailing.

Do you mean to say "FAILING"?

 

And if you attract insecure guys, you're going to get this wishy-washy behavior, because insecurity involves either going to the extreme of anxiously wanting approval or sabotaging yourself and pushing people away.

Yup. That sounds like me. Extreme of anxiously wanting approval or pushing people away. Hmm. Something to really think about. I must be attracting insecure men.

 

So you need to work on yourself to increase the caliber of guys you attract. This working on yourself will also have the side effect of no longer needing their validation, no longer looking to the men you develop early crushes on and how "interested" they are in you as a marker of your own worth. And in eliminating these factors, you will allow them space to want to come closer to you.

I see. It's so hard to not get caught up in the feeling and excitement; I crave the romance and falling in love and lust so much. I'm so lonely. I spent my birthday alone. I celebrated and will be celebrating this weekend, but I have no one to 'be with'. I don't need it, but I really really want it. I'm so tired of being the only single person.

My mom was with me the other day and I blew out the candle on my cake. She said 'I bet I know what you'll wish for!' I was seething inside that she DARE say that to me. Like all that matters is I find a husband. I almost left the table. But instead I made a joke about it, how what I really wished for was my favorite perfume. I was PISSED. How could a woman with HER mindset be married for all of her adult life?? She's never had to work. She never dated anyone besides the two men she married. How DARE she say that to me? One of my girlfriends said she felt sorry for me because I was always the single one. I felt so terrible on the inside.

 

You are very focused on the external, the outward. You think yourself passive and powerless to change circumstances due to the external.

I will do my best to look inward. Thank you for your insights.

[idoltree]

Do you mean to say "FAILING"?

 

Nope - I like the word "flailing" when it comes to finding and procuring romantic relationships.

 

Yup. That sounds like me. Extreme of anxiously wanting approval or pushing people away. Hmm. Something to really think about. I must be attracting insecure men.

Google "attachment theory." You may also find this book to be quite enlightening.

 

I see. It's so hard to not get caught up in the feeling and excitement; I crave the romance and falling in love and lust so much.

Yes, you do!

 

I'm so lonely. I spent my birthday alone. I celebrated and will be celebrating this weekend, but I have no one to 'be with'. I don't need it, but I really really want it. I'm so tired of being the only single person.

I'm sorry. Happy belated birthday!

 

Just remember that being single has nothing to do with your value or worth to the world. And all those friends who are paired up and/or married, well, give it some time and about half of them are going to be single again. Getting to commitment is only half of the story. It's a hurdle, not a milestone. So don't get down on yourself because you haven't paired off.

 

My mom was with me the other day and I blew out the candle on my cake. She said 'I bet I know what you'll wish for!' I was seething inside that she DARE say that to me. Like all that matters is I find a husband. I almost left the table. But instead I made a joke about it, how what I really wished for was my favorite perfume. I was PISSED. How could a woman with HER mindset be married for all of her adult life?? She's never had to work. She never dated anyone besides the two men she married. How DARE she say that to me? One of my girlfriends said she felt sorry for me because I was always the single one. I felt so terrible on the inside.

Has your mom always been like this? That was a pretty rotten thing to say to you, and I have to wonder if your childhood experience with her wasn't a contributor to your insecure approach to dating.

 

And your friend - is she really a friend? Or more of a "friend." Consider whether she's being backstabby to make herself feel better, and whether she's actually a friend. If she is a true friend and it was just a lapse of judgment on her part, have you considered saying something to her?

 

I will do my best to look inward. Thank you for your insights.

You're welcome. I'm clearly rooting for you!

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Venus, I liked your post, not because I like you being lonely and unhappy, but that was easily the most mature thing you've posted here. I hope it inspires a lot of healthy introspection. And while I think you may have taken your mother's comment a little too hard, your "girlfriend" sounds like an awful person. Next time tell her not to feel sorry since she'll be single by 40.

 

I can't know what you're "doing wrong" but I agree there are probably many subtle cues that other people can see. You are constantly asking for advice and suggestions on the most insignificant things, like how to respond to a text or what to say in casual conversation. It gives a strong impression that you're tremendously insecure. And I don't even know you, I'm just reading this thread! It is probably evident to your dates that you're both nervous and invested. They may also feel pressure to live up to your fantasies, which may be obvious without you even saying a word. People can tell when someone else's expectations are too high.

 

I think you would be best served by focusing on yourself for a while. That doesn't mean not dating; on the contrary, you should practice meeting men and trying to see them for who they are, not what they want you to be. And you should do the same for yourself. We're all rooting for you.

[venusishername]

Google "attachment theory." You may also find this book to be quite enlightening.

 

Great! Thank you for the book suggestion! I'm going to check it out tonight at the bookstore. If I want to get really deep about it, I've got some abandonment issues with my dad. I've been dealing with that and working with a counselor pretty much most of my life... among my other issues. I've been seeing a really excellent therapist for the past year.. she's wonderful.

Has your mom always been like this? That was a pretty rotten thing to say to you, and I have to wonder if your childhood experience with her wasn't a contributor to your insecure approach to dating.

And your friend - is she really a friend? Or more of a "friend." Consider whether she's being backstabby to make herself feel better, and whether she's actually a friend. If she is a true friend and it was just a lapse of judgment on her part, have you considered saying something to her?

Yes, my mom has always been like this. I know she means well. She is a good person with a heart of gold, she's just from a different generation where it was out of the ordinary for a woman to not be married by 25 and have several children. I told her today how much it upset me and asked that she stop saying things like this and getting so thrilled and interested about every single man I mention is a potential.

My friend also apologized for saying that when I told her I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me. She also meant well. It wasn't backstabby, it was just a lapse of judgment. I really don't take it personally. But it's still hard to hear. I have a dinner party this weekend to celebrate my birthday... and it ****ing sucks that I'll be going home alone after a celebration- AGAIN. But hey... I know someone who I could call....

 

He said the other day that I was 'hard to read'. Ha. Because I'm keeping an emotional distance, that's why. I bet he wonders what the heck, am I interested or not? Why am I being so elusive? Sigh.

I wonder what it is about some men that draw me in so much and the others I have no problem keeping 'detached' from. Maybe I'll learn something in that book.

Edited January 22, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

I just want to jump in here again with another two cents.

 

I think delving into the idea of attachment theory would be useful to you. When I read up on it, it really helped illuminate why I was having a hard time getting into anything serious, relationship-wise. I was dating a lot, but I noticed that the guys I REALLY liked all fell into the category of "unavailable" in one form or another. One guy wasn't over his failed marriage (though he said he was), one admitted to being too lazy to pursue a relationship, one was depressed bohemian type who was WAY avoidant, one was on drugs, etc.

 

I came to realize that I, too, am a bit avoidant, a bit detached, a bit of an insecure attachment person, and that's why I was attracting these types of guys, and FELT attracted to them. They all, eerily, reminded me of my dad in one way or another. That's not a bad thing—according to the attachment theory books, about half the population have attachment issues, and as you get older (I'm 34), finding suitable partners who aren't also insecure attachers gets harder and harder, but I digress.

 

Being an insecure attacher doesn't mean you're incapable of having a relationship; being an anxious/avoidant person doesn't make it impossible, either. It does make it more difficult, but if you're aware of the issue, you'll more easily see your own self-sabotage-y patterns and actions.

 

My bf is younger (31), so that helps, but he's not the most secure attachment person, either. And why would he be? There's no way I'd jump from having a FWB situation with a drug user to a completely healthy relationship with a secure attacher overnight. It hasn't been so easy to connect with my bf, but we keep working on it, and four months in, I feel much more at ease around him, and confident in our relationship, but it took a while. I was LUCKY enough to find someone with perhaps a similar issue, and we could grow gradually closer together.

 

ALSO, I'm sure you know this, but I just want to remind you that even if you were in a relationship, it wouldn't necessarily translate to life happiness. I understand your feelings of loneliness, and "why am I the only one who's still single?," I've had those same frustrations and fears, but NO romantic relationship will ever cure you of your loneliness or secure your happiness. If anything, letting someone so closely into your life is an invitation to struggle and strife.

 

I'm not saying romance is bad—it's great—but it's fleeting, and once it fades you're left with having to learn how to mesh your life with someone else's, a lot of negotiating, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of compromise, a lot of misunderstandings, and a lot of mismatched expectations. I mean, I love spending time with my bf, but even last night, we were out with a friend of his, and one the drive back to my bf's place, I was so not in the mood to be out with them. I wanted to be in bed, or laying on the couch watching Netflix, or reading a good book. I miss my singlehood sometimes, and it's a struggle to learn how to balance the two.

[idoltree]

If I want to get really deep about it, I've got some abandonment issues with my dad. I've been dealing with that and working with a counselor pretty much most of my life... among my other issues. I've been seeing a really excellent therapist for the past year.. she's wonderful.

 

I commend you for seeing a therapist. I think it's a courageous thing to do. You could be another walking wounded person, out there trying to just run away from lingering pain rather than deal with it. It takes courage to do what you are doing.

 

I'm not surprised to hear about your issues with your dad, and I really think that relationship is at the heart of your current day dating problems. If we have some unresolved pain regarding our opposite sex parent, it will show up in our romantic relationships. We either choose individuals who directly remind us of the parent, or we find someone where we can play out a mini version of our struggles.

 

If you have pain regarding the emotional availability of your dad, and fears about abandonment, it really explains a great deal of your struggles.

 

Have you talked to your therapist about this stuff? How you might connect your troubles with men back to some unresolved pain with your dad? This is pretty textbook stuff, so I imagine she'll be really helpful.

 

Yes, my mom has always been like this. I know she means well. She is a good person with a heart of gold, she's just from a different generation where it was out of the ordinary for a woman to not be married by 25 and have several children. I told her today how much it upset me and asked that she stop saying things like this and getting so thrilled and interested about every single man I mention is a potential.

Okay. I was a little worried your mom was exhibiting some narcissist tendencies. If she's mostly caring, then it sounds like a cultural/generational thing.

 

One really easy fix to her getting thrilled about who you are dating at the time is to stop discussing it with her. If it makes you feel like a failure when you've told her about someone and then it doesn't work out, wouldn't it be better if she just didn't know?

 

Why don't you try it out for the time being. Don't offer any information. If she asks, just tell her "Mom, I'm trying to concentrate more on me. I get really wrapped up in dating, and though I'm still doing it, I want to make it a less central focus of my life. So I'm taking care of myself, and I'm still out there, I just don't want to talk about it so I can keep myself in check. It's nothing personal, it's just something new I'm trying." <Change subject>

 

My friend also apologized for saying that when I told her I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me. She also meant well. It wasn't backstabby, it was just a lapse of judgment.

Glad to hear that.

 

I really don't take it personally. But it's still hard to hear.

Understandable. It's pretty insensitive. You might have a retort at the ready, like "well, that's a pretty harsh thing to say." just in case someone says something again.

 

I have a dinner party this weekend to celebrate my birthday...

Awesome! Don't be pessimistic about this just because you don't have a guy to bring. You have good friends who want to celebrate with you and that's a blessing. Have fun and bask in the fact that you know you are loved. Dress up, drink some wine, and have fun.

 

and it ****ing sucks that I'll be going home alone after a celebration- AGAIN.

I think you're romanticizing what it would mean to be in a relationship and go home with someone. Sure, the honeymoon period is crazy intense, but it doesn't last. Soon, you're driving home together and someone's cranky because the pasta didn't agree with their stomach. Plenty of women (and men) are in relationships where the passion is totally gone and their husbands/wives want nothing to do with them sexually. From the outside, it looks like they have a good relationship, but if you knew how things really were, you'd know that they feel desperate and rejected and are living a life of silent misery. These things happen more than you know.

 

If it means that you spend some more time on your own to make sure you find the right guy - not some flashy egomaniac charm god - but the right guy who is going to treat you right in the long term, then so be it. Is it better than the alternative of getting the egomaniac to commit to you, only to have it fall apart shortly afterword? Priorities, girl. Your long term happiness should be #1.

 

But hey... I know someone who I could call....

WHAT? Who? I'm a little disturbed by this, because after all we talked about, here you are mentioning a guy as if he is the cure to your ills.

 

Stop it! Go home by yourself and embrace it. Enjoy spending time on your own, because you only have yourself to depend on in the end. Relationship or no relationship, it's no guarantee. You need to learn to love yourself before you can love someone else, because good lord do you keep trying to skip over the "loving yourself" part.

 

He said the other day that I was 'hard to read'. Ha. Because I'm keeping an emotional distance, that's why. I bet he wonders what the heck, am I interested or not? Why am I being so elusive? Sigh.

Who? Why are we suddenly talking about the thoughts of another man? Why does that matter?!

 

We were getting somewhere with you, and all of a sudden you're back to talking about guys and what they think.

 

Venus. Reality check - this daydreaming about guys is a problem for you. It's become an escape, an addiction, a way for you to temporarily exit the stress of your own life and dream of a time when you'll finally be happy.

 

Please google "thought stopping" and start practicing it. Every time you start thinking about a guy, especially when you start putting thoughts in his head, or pondering something he said to you, stop it. Worry about you. How are you feeling? How was your day? What's your friend up to? How do you think she's feeling about ____? There are SO MANY OTHER THINGS TO THINK ABOUT OTHER THAN MEN.

 

I wonder what it is about some men that draw me in so much and the others I have no problem keeping 'detached' from. Maybe I'll learn something in that book.

Yes, I think you will.

[venusishername]

There's no other face here for tears of happiness. Thank you.

Edited January 22, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

There's no other face here for tears of happiness. Thank you.

 

You're welcome. It's nice to hear when you make a difference.

 

Please dig into this, Venus. You've got to go into the pain and uncertainty to get through it. Don't run from it. This can be your opportunity to start to heal. Once you do that, your experience with me is going to get better, too.

 

For now,

All that attention you pour into meeting guys and assessing their interest should be directed toward you.

[venusishername]

You're welcome. It's nice to hear when you make a difference.

Please dig into this, Venus. You've got to go into the pain and uncertainty to get through it. Don't run from it. This can be your opportunity to start to heal. Once you do that, your experience with me is going to get better, too.

For now,

All that attention you pour into meeting guys and assessing their interest should be directed toward you.

 

Yes, you (and many of you perfect strangers here!) have made a difference.

I didn't make it to the bookstore on time last night, but am going after work today and can't wait to read it!

I had some friends call for our regular Thursday hangout last night, and I decided to stay in and just be introspective. (I "did ME" like you said, IdolTree!) It's been easy for me to fall on my crutches... like going out with friends/socializing, MEN, talking to and about men, drinking, spending money: all obsessive compulsive behavior... but last night even though that would've been nice to have a drink or two and socialize, I kinda rather would have been by myself and with my thoughts.

 

I'm so excited that so many friends will be coming to my birthday! It's nice to be reminded that I am loved, and am not alone, even if I feel that way sometimes.

It doesn't matter, but the person I was referring to a few posts back that I 'could call' was 'R'. We went out earlier this week, and had a really nice time. He texted yesterday (a couple days later) and asked how I was doing, chatted just a bit. Nothing substantial. But.. I'm practicing stepping back and looking at it from a different 'lens' as you suggested: NOT 'is he interested in me?' but 'Hmm. Do I like this guy? And why?' Still figuring this one out! Although I must say, he is sweet. Something to put on the back burner while I'm introspecting.

 

I still need to look at the book, (and meet with the therapist next week!)

BUT... I'm afraid I might always lean on my familiar crutches and probably will always be attracted to the same 'type' and exhibit those same 'attachment' behaviors and seeking approval/acceptance of certain men. I think I've figured out the type of man I'm attracted to... kind of the authority figure who can offer guidance and protection. Hmm.

I wonder HOW I can change what I might be giving off. Just something I'm thinking about.

[idoltree]

I didn't make it to the bookstore on time last night, but am going after work today and can't wait to read it!

 

Great! I hope they have it in stock. If you have an e-reader (or an app), there's a kindle version you could buy if they don't have it.

 

I kinda rather would have been by myself and with my thoughts.

This is great! It's important to take time to center yourself.

 

Have you thought about trying something like meditation? It's fantastic for emotional healing, destressing, and managing anxiety. You learn how to let thoughts and emotions roll off of you and keep yourself in the moment.

 

I'm so excited that so many friends will be coming to my birthday! It's nice to be reminded that I am loved, and am not alone, even if I feel that way sometimes.

Yes. I'm happy that you have a tight-knit group. Mine have mostly all moved away, so I miss having a group of friends. Don't take them for granted!

 

I'm practicing stepping back and looking at it from a different 'lens' as you suggested: NOT 'is he interested in me?' but 'Hmm. Do I like this guy? And why?' Still figuring this one out! Although I must say, he is sweet. Something to put on the back burner while I'm introspecting.

Good attitude.

 

I'm afraid I might always lean on my familiar crutches and probably will always be attracted to the same 'type' and exhibit those same 'attachment' behaviors and seeking approval/acceptance of certain men.

Maybe you will, but you can always catch yourself and get re-centered. Trying to make significant changes in life isn't always a linear process. You'll get there if you go easy on yourself and keep trying.

 

I think I've figured out the type of man I'm attracted to... kind of the authority figure who can offer guidance and protection. Hmm.

Sounds kind of... fatherly, eh?

 

I wonder HOW I can change what I might be giving off. Just something I'm thinking about.

By growing more secure and loving yourself above all else, by knowing that you are 100% okay on your own (wanting a relationship, not needing it) and by dealing with the past stuff that's lurking as the root cause of all of this. If you do these, your behaviors and subconscious signalling will naturally change

 

If you come to recognize behaviors that might be emotionally crowding these men and kicking off their avoidant reactions, you can consciously change those habits. Additionally, learning to recognize traits of avoidant men and forcing yourself to become repelled by them instead of intrigued.

[venusishername]

Sounds kind of... fatherly, eh? .

Well, I'll be damned.

 

By growing more secure and loving yourself above all else, by knowing that you are 100% okay on your own (wanting a relationship, not needing it) and by dealing with the past stuff that's lurking as the root cause of all of this.

What does it mean to 'deal' with it? You mean just recognize it? What good will that do?

I have a good relationship with my dad now; is it something I'll need to reestablish with him? How does all this 'dealing with it' work?

 

If you come to recognize behaviors that might be emotionally crowding these men and kicking off their avoidant reactions, you can consciously change those habits. Additionally, learning to recognize traits of avoidant men and forcing yourself to become repelled by them instead of intrigued.

I'm sure you can't answer this, but I wonder what is it that triggers those avoidant reactions...

Ah, psychology..

[idoltree]

Well, I'll be damned.

 

Yep! Sometimes it's something right in front of your nose that it takes someone else to see.

 

What does it mean to 'deal' with it? You mean just recognize it? What good will that do?

These and your other questions are things your therapist will help you with. I'm going to gather that you have pain and feelings of abandonment from your childhood that are lurking beneath the surface and your therapist will help you through them. Those old wounds need to be tended to and healed. But I can't possible know specifics. Just talk to her about what you've discovered and she'll know how to take you through it.

 

What good will it do? Well, the premise of attachment theory is that if we suffer emotional trauma as children by having parents who don't meet our needs, our immature brains interpret that as our fault and then we continually repeat those patterns as adults. Someone who has been abandoned or rejected by their parent(s) will become an anxious attacher because they feel that there is something inherently wrong with them. (Young children cannot comprehend that the fault is with the parent; parents are godlike figures.) Someone who was controlled and engulfed as a young child will become an avoidant attacher because true closeness is overwhelming and they associate it with negativity and pain.

 

Attachment is on a spectrum, with anxious attachers and avoidant attachers on each end. In between those two polarities, we have the securely attached, whose emotional needs were met consistently in childhood, and therefore can easily trust others and welcome emotional intimacy in their lives. They also have an easy time saying goodbye to a relationship. They don't cling or try to find value in themselves through others, like the anxious do. They don't prematurely bolt from intimacy like the avoidants do. They hang in there and if it doesn't work, they leave. They know they are loveable and can find better.

 

The secure are attracted to the secure because they don't play around with the bullsh*t of the others. The anxious are attracted to the avoiders, because the avoiders are familiar (someone who won't fully meet their needs). The avoiders want closeness at the same time they fear it, but only the anxious confirm what they know to be true (closeness is overwhelming) so they choose the anxious because they are familiar.

 

The book will tell you more about all of this.

 

To me, you're solidly on the anxious spectrum. Treating the core of your trauma with your therapist will move you toward being a more securely attached person. That, coupled with acknowledgement of your own behaviors that can trigger avoidance, as well as an ability to recognize an avoider before you get in too deep will help you immensely in your search. You'll learn to spot signs of secure attachment in someone, and learn to become intrigued by that.

[venusishername]

What good will it do? Well, the premise of attachment theory is that if we suffer emotional trauma as children by having parents who don't meet our needs, our immature brains interpret that as our fault and then we continually repeat those patterns as adults. Someone who has been abandoned or rejected by their parent(s) will become an anxious attacher because they feel that there is something inherently wrong with them. (Young children cannot comprehend that the fault is with the parent; parents are godlike figures.)

 

Thank you, IdolTree... you are a wealth of knowledge! I'm so glad you found my thread and are taking the time to help in this way.

 

I think this is it: I feel like it's always my fault. I'm so hard on myself thinking it has something to do with ME, and then I don't feel good enough, or wonder/doubt if I am.

It doesn't help to hear things from others like 'do this, don't do that, try this, don't text, don't initiate, don't have sex until the nth date, if you do this, he'll do that, etc.' I think LS posters perpetuate that, although mostly with good intentions. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I DO! It doesn't matter if I'm pretty enough, or smart enough, or educated enough, or ' got my **** together' enough. Right??

Now I can start to see how I want to win the approval of certain 'types' and not give a damn about others!

Just something I've thought about: I could care less about winning the approval or impressing women. I think I understand...because I have very positive and nurturing experiences with the women in my life.

 

Although it's helpful to at least be AWARE of this all.. even before reading the book and talking to the doc...

It still doesn't take away the disappointment I feel about being flaked on by M. I don't think that's ever happened to me before!! It was all built up (my own doing for getting so carried away) and it's still a big disappointment because there was a lot of mutual 'interest' and 'chemistry' there. But.. none of that matters if he's acted like an inconsiderate jerk, right? Why would I want someone who flakes on me and keeps me waiting? (It's finally sinking in....)

Forgive me for being dense, but you mentioned seeing through the BS of others. Are you saying that there's nothing I did or didn't do that would influence the outcome of those actions? Like if someone was going to act like an *******, there's nothing that could've prevented it??

You (and others) mentioned me acting in an overly 'available' way for example on Saturday night. If your attachment theory is relevant here, how does that work (or not work) into it? If it doesn't matter what I do, how do any actions of mine affect the outcome? (Maybe this question should be for the doctor!)

Edited January 24, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

Is there any update with M or R, Venus?

 

I don't know you, but if I had to guess, you're seeking the approval of certain 'types', like you said. Types that are unlikely to commit or 'approve' the way you want them to.

[venusishername]

Is there any update with M or R, Venus?

 

I don't know you, but if I had to guess, you're seeking the approval of certain 'types', like you said. Types that are unlikely to commit or 'approve' the way you want them to.

 

No updates. I've been 'taking a break' from thinking about men and enjoying myself and my friendships and my life without that worry. It's been nice.

 

But, since you asked!

M literally dropped off the face of the planet after flaking last weekend. I still am having a hard time understanding wtf happened. I know it doesn't matter in the long run, but how could he go from sooo excited and interested and contacting me several times a day to nothing? He left the country for the week but I am sure is back by now. I deleted his number days ago, but I can't help but think in the back of my mind he might resurface. I don't know.. even if he did meet someone else that night... it wouldn't change the fact that he was really interested in me. ?

I had a sinking thought that he might be married. Maybe he's just a big jerk and it's a blessing in disguise that he stood me up. It still stings. That's never happened to me before. It's hard not to take it personally, and also to trust that it won't happen again when I start to feel excited about someone next time.

I would like to trust in these things... but it doesn't seem to be very reliable.

 

R texted me out of the blue the other night (a day or so after our date) just to say hi. Didn't ask me for another date. Just chatted back and forth. I wasn't sure why he did that. I didn't think about it too much over the weekend and decided to shoot him a text ' how was your weekend?' and he didn't respond until the next morning (today). Even then he didn't engage in conversation. Prob will hear from him again. Or not.

I was thinking maybe I'd give that a chance because I enjoyed myself on my date with him and I do like him. BUT.... R seems like it might fizzle out as well...

I feel like half the men I've ever dated either dropped off the face of the planet, and the other half never left me alone and resurfaced on and off for years. Go figure.

 

I picked up the "Attached" book that Idoltree suggested. I see a lot of good points in it so far, but the concept itself is a LITTLE hoaky to me. I see a lot of correlations with my previous relationships and the 'mindset' that I've had with men. I admit, I've been attracted to the highs and lows/drama of a man who pushes away intimacy and well, is insecure in many ways. I have my own intimacy issues I need to work on too.

BUT I think the most important switch I've made just recently is understanding that it's NOT MY FAULT; it's not because I'm not good enough or pretty enough that it hasn't worked out with some people.

I also realize that in some particular cases, (like with M and a few before him) that I was more concerned with whether I've been good enough for THEM than the other way around. This is a self esteem issue that's been keeping me from a healthy relationship.

Also, one simple thing that's helped me feel more positive about it is that I realize there are a lot of options out there and to not focus so much on ONE man (in the beginning anyway). I've been fatalistic in my mindset approaching dating, like "THIS IS IT! MY TIME IS DWINDLING. I NEED TO NAIL THIS AND NOT SCREW IT UP! I need to put ALL of my effort into this ONE person because it's SO important I make this happen.' Not doing that anymore. That's a lot of pressure that's not necessary.

 

 

So, that's where I'm at today.

Edited January 26, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

On the other hand, I'm still feeling really bummed and defeated about my recent 'failures'. I just feel like I can't even trust basic things like 'interest' and attraction. It seems to just be so fickle. I'm not sure if I can get back out there again knowing it will happen again.

Even with R, I never really thought it would go anywhere to begin with, but then I thought.. hey, I'll give it a chance, and I like him, and he disappeared for days, now finally contacting me again. It's not consistent, it's sporadic and I think I'm hesitating with him because it seems like it could only be casual. Then I think.. maybe I should just enjoy myself and keep it casual with him and others if the opportunity arises...

But still. I have a great date or two with these guys and they are clearly interested and attracted, even contact me after the dates, but then they don't care about seeing me again?

I'm not clingy, I'm not demanding, I'm not crazy, I'm attractive and smart. I have no shortage of men who are 'interested'. But it doesn't last.

I've met a lot of great guys... but either they disappear or I do.

I don't understand. Many of them have said they are looking for something substantial, as compared to the ones who say 'I'm not looking for anything serious.' Obviously I've been focusing only on the ones who are looking for something more than just casual. But that's no guarantee.

 

 

Today, I'm wondering if I should stop looking, or keep at it. I can't trust it.

Edited January 27, 2015 by venusishername

[BluEyeL]

Stop finding these guys on that hook up app!!! That's the first step. And then, know that what's happening to you is normal.

 

You should read this book: Jess McCann, You lost him at hello. This is the best dating book I read and I read about 45 of them, no exaggeration. I read EVERYTHING that has been published. That is the best book. You'll understand what you need to do to change the situation you described. After reading this book I never had a problem again. Before reading this book, I had similar situations. After that, I got 100% call back rate 1st to 2nd date for one year straight! And most of them continued to ask me out. I never had a man disappear again!

[venusishername]

Stop finding these guys on that hook up app!!! That's the first step. And then, know that what's happening to you is normal.

 

You should read this book: Jess McCann, You lost him at hello. This is the best dating book I read and I read about 45 of them, no exaggeration. I read EVERYTHING that has been published. That is the best book. You'll understand what you need to do to change the situation you described. After reading this book I never had a problem again. Before reading this book, I had similar situations. After that, I got 100% call back rate 1st to 2nd date for one year straight! And most of them continued to ask me out. I never had a man disappear again!

 

It's not the app that's the problem!!! Honestly, it gets a bad rap for people who use it for that reason. It's just as likely to find a douchebag in real life. I've tried the paid sites before and it's not my thing and takes too much time, and the app helps weed out people that you wouldn't want to talk to for various reasons like distance, lack of interest, etc.

Sorry, BlueEye. Everyone has their opinions about Tinder... but I've only had ONE negative experience so far. You just have to be clear what you're looking for from the get go!

 

 

Anyway, I will consider looking at that book you suggest!! Sounds just like what happens to me: 'I lost him at hello'

 

 

Hey, on the other hand, R has been contacting me today and I'm thinking it's leading to getting together today or sometime soon maybe. So I guess I didn't lose him at hello yet!