When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

Venus, the advice here is to not see the guy when he asks (a good sign) which I don't get. You should be getting to know each other if your goal is a relationship and salvaging things. Granted you've already had sex which complicates things but doesn't always rejecting him send him the message that you're not interested?

Ok, now this post makes me actually want to talk with you now.

Yes, that is correct. Almost always rejecting him and not being receptive to his invitations (at least more than half of the time).. does seem to send the message that I'm not very interested.

For a recent example, him asking me what I'm doing on Saturday night because he wanted to see me, I respond four hours later at the end of the night by saying literally, 'what's up' and didn't engage further at all with him shows that I'm not very interested.

I said/did that because I was busy of course, but I was also disappointed that he took 24 hours to respond to me a few days prior, and everyone here has been telling me to 'mirror' and not chase and appear too eager. So I was short and delayed response and didn't engage. Again. Why? Because I am skeptical as to his intentions with me, which I am getting told over and over and over here to hang on to.

If I were to DARE contact him today, let's just say, just to say hi... how was your weekend? I would get holy hell from all of you. I'd LIKE to do that. I'd LIKE to let him know I would've liked to see him and convey SOME interest other than 'what's up' in response on Saturday.

This is what I was talking about last night.

Edited February 9, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

Venus, the advice here is to not see the guy when he asks (a good sign) which I don't get. You should be getting to know each other if your goal is a relationship and salvaging things. Granted you've already had sex which complicates things but doesn't always rejecting him send him the message that you're not interested?

 

That's really far from the advice she's getting. No one is telling her not to see these men.

[idoltree]

Just to be clear I didn't call anyone a "whore".. that's you guys.

 

Yes, it's very hard to crawl up from ONS. Even FWB see each other regularly and partners don't usually drop off unexpectedly yet still can't move upward to LTR.

 

This is a learning experience for many people not just OP.

 

Dating someone and sleeping with them early on is not the same thing as a ONS.

 

Can we just agree that modern dating subtleties are perhaps not your area of expertise?

[venusishername]

That's really far from the advice she's getting. No one is telling her not to see these men.

Well, what you are saying very loud and clear is don't be very available. In this particular instance it means more often than not declining or ignoring invitations when they arise... because it's a weeknight, because it's less than 12 hours notice.. because I'm being skeptical... because I'm busy... because he delayed for 24 hours because he was also busy...

Let's look at last week to prove my point: he asked me out four different times last week, and in the end I saw him twice.

Because I'm trying to hold back, on Saturday I said 'what's up' instead of saying what I wanted to say, which was the truth: 'Hey there. I'm at a birthday dinner. What are you up to?'

For all I know he saw that and was like 'phhftt.. I can't read this girl.. she keeps holding me off and she didn't even respond to my question! I just can't tell how interested she is.'

Edited February 9, 2015 by venusishername

[trolloperative]

Dating someone and sleeping with them early on is not the same thing as a ONS.

 

Can we just agree that modern dating subtleties are perhaps not your area of expertise?

 

 

Hmm, I'm not in tune with modern dating subtleties because I don't agree with you, anonymous internet forum member?

 

Not early on but having sex with someone 1-2x then having them never reply to you again is a ONS as with the guy in the other thread and perhaps the fireman? ..I don't remember the guys' abbreviations.

 

Your definition of ONS might be meet some guy at a club/bar go home with him, do the deed, never hear again.. which is also a ONS.

 

The current guy has potential but the feedback you are giving OP will actually confuse him and from what I gather is not how she truly wishes to approach him.

 

 

Because I'm trying SO HARD to hold back, I said 'what's up' instead of saying what I wanted to say, which was the truth: 'Hey there. I'm at a birthday dinner. What are you up to?'

For all I know he saw that and was like 'phhftt.. I can't read this girl.. she keeps holding me off and she didn't even respond to my question!'

 

Venus, that would've been a much nicer response don't you think? It shows him you have a life of your own but happy to hear from him.

 

Have you heard from him since? If that was the last thing you sent and you haven't heard, yes I would drop him a line.

[venusishername]

Not early on but having sex with someone 1-2x then having them never reply to you again is a ONS as with the guy in the other thread and perhaps the fireman? ..I don't remember the guys' abbreviations.

The 'fireman' (we call him 'A' in this thread)... we were seeing each other for over a month, very regularly. I wouldn't call it a ONS by any means.. we were dating for about 6 weeks. Then he never contacted me again. The guy in my other thread was just a hookup. Pretty close to a ONS. It doesn't really matter, does it?

 

The current guy has potential but the feedback you are giving OP will actually confuse him and from what I gather is not how she truly wishes to approach him.

Well thank you. I get WHY the other posters here (who are all women, btw as far as I'm aware) are telling me what they are. But this guy even told me he thought I was hard to read and was hoping to get me to open up.

 

Venus, that would've been a much nicer response don't you think? It shows him you have a life of your own but happy to hear from him.

Have you heard from him since? If that was the last thing you sent and you haven't heard, yes I would drop him a line.

No, I didn't hear back after my comment on Saturday night. It was basically me just saying 'hey' in response to his question, which was meaningless.

I personally don't see the harm dropping a line. I'm going to go ahead and bet my bank account that all the women who've been posting lately though would probably tell me that's a bad idea and here I go again, chasing. I don't think it's chasing at all if I say 'hi there, I was out the other night at a birthday party when I saw your text. How was your weekend?' It's not like I'm saying 'hey R, I'm here, I'm available, I'm ready for whenever you snap your fingers.'

The only reason I hesitate to do this is because of the pages of advice I've been getting about not chasing, and also because he delayed in response to me earlier this week. I fear that if I do it again and reach out, that it will happen again, and the yellow flag will become a big red one.

It's good to have a male perspective on this though. A couple of my gfs told me the same thing you are, actually.

Like I said, I'm torn. I want to be open, yet I want to be cautious at the same time and change my old bad habits.

Edited February 9, 2015 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

The next time my male friends ask what being a woman is like, I'm going to point them to this thread. To be a woman is to express your deepest anxieties and have strangers respond by suggesting you have venereal disease.

[venusishername]

Whoops.. my phone just buzzed. It was him.

He said he didn't think I wrote him back the other night. [? Didn't get my two word text? What does that mean?] asking what's new, how's am I doing.

Idoltree.. I'm being just a bit facetious... so are you saying I should wait for 48 hours to respond to this since the last exchange was that long ago?

Edited February 9, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

The next time my male friends ask what being a woman is like, I'm going to point them to this thread. To be a woman is to express your deepest anxieties and have strangers respond by suggesting you have venereal disease.

 

Act like a lady, think like a man, work like a horse..

It's hard being a woman, that's for sure!

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Seriously though, Venus, I think you should do whatever you like at this point. Everyone has said their piece at least three hundred thousand times by now, and it's up to you to decide whose advice you want to take, if anyone's. But I also think you should take some factors into consideration:

 

- What do you hope to accomplish?

- Why do you think this is the right course of action?

- Have you done this before? Did it work?

- Is this bringing you closer to your goals?

 

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

[trolloperative]

Whoops.. my phone just buzzed. It was him.

He said he didn't think I wrote him back the other night. [? Didn't get my two word text? What does that mean?] asking what's new, how's am I doing.

Idoltree.. I'm being just a bit facetious... so are you saying I should wait for 48 hours to respond to this since the last exchange was that long ago?

 

Venus, answer the man. Dont play games.

 

Mirroring would mean if you sent a text initiating and it took a week to respond you would i. Affect take another week to respond to that. But this is him initiating.

 

Just speculation however he may have been taken back by your curt response so ignored? Only he knows. Who cares? Respond. Please.

 

Regardless of what anyone says getting to know him is the only way to move forward.

[idoltree]

Like others have said, you've gotten extremely thorough advice many many many times over.

 

You've also now got a brand new poster, who, when not outright insulting you about your sexual choices, is telling you what you want to hear when it comes to R.

 

So, go for it and do what you're going to do. Best of luck!

[venusishername]

Like others have said, you've gotten extremely thorough advice many many many times over.

You've also now got a brand new poster, who, when not outright insulting you about your sexual choices, is telling you what you want to hear when it comes to R. So, go for it and do what you're going to do. Best of luck!

Well, thank you. I'm not dismissing or disregarding any of the sound advice I have received here! I take (almost) all of it to heart, I really do.

 

Although the new poster was extremely rude in that first post, the point about just giving it a chance is well taken and completely reasonable. My gfs said the same thing.

From the start I didn't want to play games and just be honest. I know it's not about games, it's about maintaining standards. I wanted to be open and receptive but with a balance of awareness and skepticism too.

Too much of either is detrimental, I've learned. I kind of need to just let go a little and not be TOO hesitant.

 

I have a lot more tools and awareness than I used to 6 months ago. It's very important that I take a long hard look at what I want and be crystal clear on that. I also need to be OPEN to exploring and being AVAILABLE for a real relationship. Because that's one thing I haven't really been able or willing to do... until now. Over the past year, I JUST started to feel ready for it... and it's been a matter of trial and error to adjust behaviors, choosing the right men to spend time with, etc. It's all a learning process and I finally see that.

I'm not going to find my future husband tomorrow just because I want a relationship in the long run. It takes time.

Each experience helps me get closer and more clear, and that's a blessing.

 

 

I'll reiterate: I was ONLY open to short term and superficial relationships in the past couple years because of the trauma I went through with ex bf. I gravitated towards the bad boys and Mr. Unavailables for sure. I held everyone at an arm's length.

I encountered one or two 'good guys' who were interested in a relationship with me and I didn't feel the 'spark' and/or their actions scared me off (actions being contacting me consistently, asking me out in advance, saying the word 'girlfriend' or talking about having children, or contacting me every day or so, etc.) Ha! That used to scare me off.

Now, I'm in a totally different place... but still testing the waters. I'm not FULLY ready for a real, true, committed relationship... but I'm getting very close. I think it might just take the right person to have the patience and dedication to get through to my heart.

The guy I dated last year was all about a relationship. I freaked out. I told him I wanted to move slower. He took that as his cue to exit. He was obviously looking for someone on the same page and wasn't willing to wait for me. He would've been waiting for awhile.

That's why I think it's not so easy for me to find the right fit. I can only do my best and remain open and aware.

 

As for R, as you all know, I decided over a month ago that I'd like to give him a chance mainly because he was so persistent. It is true that I went into it thinking 'this is only casual; I'm not sure I really like him.. he's not my type...I don't really see this going anywhere'. I wonder why I thought that. Maybe I had a block or something. I was too busy fawning over Maverick at that time, someone unavailable and full of ego.

Anyway, over time I've learned that I do like R. He's been doing many things that I think are positive signs that he's "interested", getting to know me, dating me, seems interested in a relationship in general terms. That came as a surprise to me because I wasn't expecting it.

So... if it doesn't work out, and he fades out, and he shows he lost or never really had "the I word", it's OK!!! It's not my fault or his fault, or because we had sex before exclusivity. I'll be disappointed, sure. But it's for the better if that's the case, ya know?

 

I am aware of the 'signs' and all, and I'm not falling back on my old habits as far as 'chasing' or being too available, despite my slip up with when I texted after drinks with my gf. He seemed to laugh that off, actually. I also don't think responding within a couple hours' time to his delayed response is being too available either.

After he contacted me yesterday I did respond to him in my free time. It seemed that he was a little confused/thrown off by my short response the other night and was asking what happened, how am I doing? I was being friendly and receptive. But I also pay attention to the fact that there have been delays in his response. I also pay attention to the fact that he waited until Saturday night to ask to see me instead of in advance as he has before. (those aren't deal breakers themselves). They're just pieces of the puzzle.

The way I see it, we are still getting to know and feeling it out right now. I can't assume or prejudge or close off either. I can just be receptive and aware, and be honest.

I'm feeling some pressure as far as V-day coming in a few days. Like it's going to be THE indication of where this might go, and if he is or isn't interested in exploring something more out of this.

I am fully prepared to not have a date. And that's ok. That was my original plan! He's the only guy I'm talking to/seeing right now... so yes, it would be nice to spend that day with him. BUT.. I truly don't expect it.

It will be a good 'point' for me to see the potential, I suppose. If it doesn't go that way or he doesn't acknowledge it with me,... then I think I'll be pretty clear on where he's coming from. AND THAT'S OK.

 

The last time I spent V-day with someone was my ex, and that was 4 years ago now. Last year I bought myself a really nice piece of jewelry and was alone. It sucked, but I've done it before and I can do it again. I'm sure it won't be forever.

 

R's been on my radar and vice versa. He's been keeping in contact with me very consistently now, no longer than two or three days have passed without him initiating for over 6 weeks now. This past week was kind of a bust, but still kept in contact and asked to see me. What I've noticed about him is if I tend to pull back or even have ignored or been short, he keeps coming back. Maybe because I'm not chasing? Maybe because he's more 'available' and 'interested'? Either way, so far that's positive. He hasn't dropped the ball yet, or made excuses like all the other guys I've dated, or been dishonest or flaked on me or not followed through on his word.... yet. The delays in response are not so good signs. The not making plans in advance for this week yet is a yellow flag. Just being aware of all the cumulative signs and deciding whether I'm ok with that.

Edited February 10, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

Hi everyone. No update.

I'm feeling really down. I'm trying not to let it get to me though, although still I'm feeling disappointed.

I don't want to hear 'I told you so' or that I shouldn't have had sex before exclusivity and that's why I'm single, or that I'm picking the wrong guys, or that I was too clingy and available with A and M, and that was my pattern. I realize that there are things I can change/work on going forward.

 

It doesn't change that I feel disappointed, that's all.

I look around and see people I know who have just gotten out of long term relationships and are in another one, and friends who were single forever who are now a couple. I hate feeling so alone. I do try, and I'm once again feeling so cynical and dejected. With V day coming up, I foresee a really ****ty night alone. Last night I went out and had dinner all alone. Sometimes I enjoy being alone, but most of the time it ****ing sucks.

 

I know I said I didn't have my heart in it with R. I thought I could go in it just casual. But I wasn't able to keep hope out of it.

Maybe I'm being overly needy and too negative and I need to just take a chill pill and RELAX. Maybe it's too soon to start feeling disappointed yet. I really did enjoy being with him and I was excited to get to know each other. It seemed it did have potential.

Even if he could turn out to be the wrong guy for me, I still feel let down.

 

I told you guys on Monday afternoon that he contacted me. Said he wasn't sure if I had responded to him on Sat night and how am I doing? I responded to him once I got home from work and I haven't heard back since!

I was warm.... like Hi there! I was out doing blah blah blah the other night. Such and such happening tomorrow. How was your weekend?

Silence.

 

I find that odd. Why would he contact me Saturday night and then again two days later in an effort to talk to me and/or see me, and I respond within a few hours, and he drops it? What's up with that?

That busy? That disconnected from checking phone? Fading interest? All of the above?

No matter what the reason is, I'm still confused and let down. Maybe I shouldn't be so negative and think the worst. I can't ****ing help it. It's hard for me not to compare this to my past disappointments. I realize each situation is different so I can't compare.

 

I've debated whether or not to just reach out and say hi, even though he didn't respond to my question the other day (but then I'd be chasing someone who doesn't seem that interested in following up with me this week)... just to let the guy know I'm actually interested if he had any doubt about it (which is possible because he was the one who mentioned that!)

Then I think that he's always picked up the 'ball' so far. (Except that one time I slipped after my gf and I had gone out)... and I should let it stay there. I know I need to hold out for someone who is willing to put forth the effort. I know there is nothing substantial between us but still, I felt 'hey, there actually seems to be potential if I give it a chance....I like this guy despite the way I hesitated in the beginning...'

What upsets me is that I was SO HESITANT to see him at first, and he was so persistent I finally gave in... and now it's like, well that was a waste of time. But then how was I to know? I just can't go into every dating experience comparing him to anyone from my past.

 

Again, I've been trying hard to keep a wall up and hold back, maybe so much it's detrimental. I'm not sure if that's the case here or he's just another 'frog' who came along.

Edited February 12, 2015 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

Hey Venus,

 

I wanted to share with you my current problem that early sex has resulted in.

 

I had early sex with a guy who was definitely otherwise into me.

 

He meant well and he even wanted to take me out on Valentines day.

 

Guess what? He got sex and now he has lost interest.

 

Men don't always intend to do this - they just don't value you highly when you don't make them get to know you for you, and put out so early on - it really ruins a lot of potential relationships.Just thought I would let you know it happened to me yet again - this early sex thing is NOT working for me, and maybe you should ask yourself the same question.

 

I was really into this guy (he is Irish, LOL...) and I feel quiet terrible that early sex has made him de value me and not count me as dating material now. Just be careful; if you keep doing the same thing and get the same results, surely you would be crazy to NOT try a different approach? I think these guys are into you initially and lose interest - because of early sex in at least some of the cases.

 

I think we have both lost out on potential long term dating partners because of jumping into bed too soon.

 

I was like you - I was ADAMANT that if a guy truly felt into you, he'd surely overlook early sex....

 

My friend who has a boyfriend of 1.8 years, he is CRAZY about her - but he admitted he would have lost respect for her if they had had sex early on - and possibly not pursued her seriously. And he is absolutely crazy about this girl and he was from the start. And yet still would have given up on her if she had put out too soon.

 

I just got burnt and it was my fault - I hope my current predicament can shed some light for you..

 

 

I, for one, am burnt out and sick of men who are into me losing interest after early sex. Enough is enough.

 

Hope you someday reach the same conclusion and at least TRY to adopt a different approach.. AKA, getting to know a guy well before sex.

 

I am sick of being let down and I know you are too. Even worse - it is our fault to some extent.

[BluEyeL]

Venus, I'm so sorry.

Leigh, you too.

 

Venus, V-day is just another day that has no meaning. Love yourself. Make it an evening of loving yourself. Buy yourself a massage, and do something that you really like, watch a cheesy movie or meet up with girlfriends. Chin up, these guys were not "it" and every no brings you closer to the yes, statistically. I know it's very heartbreaking, and anxiety inducing, but eventually, you'll see that you'll find love.

 

Perhaps yeah, slowing down with them will help with being less hurt, weeding out unsincere men and presenting yourself to good ones in a more positive light. You're great and everything will be OK.

 

Same to you, Leigh, you'll be fine! Hugs to both!

[lil_missy]

Venus,

 

stop being so sad and stop with the self pitying, there are much worse things in this world than being single.

 

you need to make yourself happy, not depending your happiness on a relationship which is never going to work.

 

a guy can sense that you are relying your happiness on him and that is what is driving them away, nobody wants to be responsible for that. With your attitude, I'm sure you are giving off a "desperate" vibe no matter what you say or how you act.

 

Just be grateful with what you've got and start to find enjoyment in other things in life. seriously.

 

Also, stop analysing why a guy texts you randomly and doesn't reply. when i was casually dating, i'd msg guys randomly all the time, usually when I'm bored. then when I got busy i forgot to reply. Trust me 99% of the time that is the reason why he is inconsistent. he is NOT investing in this relationship and you shouldn't any further.

[Leigh 87]

Venus, I'm so sorry.

Leigh, you too.

 

Venus, V-day is just another day that has no meaning. Love yourself. Make it an evening of loving yourself. Buy yourself a massage, and do something that you really like, watch a cheesy movie or meet up with girlfriends. Chin up, these guys were not "it" and every no brings you closer to the yes, statistically. I know it's very heartbreaking, and anxiety inducing, but eventually, you'll see that you'll find love.

 

Perhaps yeah, slowing down with them will help with being less hurt, weeding out unsincere men and presenting yourself to good ones in a more positive light. You're great and everything will be OK.

 

Same to you, Leigh, you'll be fine! Hugs to both!

 

 

 

It is very disheartening. So thanks

 

I hate how he DID seem very into me until the sex.

 

It also hurt that all of a sudden, a guy who I was really into asked me out for Valentines day.

 

And as quick as it happened, I suddenly have lost that Valentines day date haha.

 

It hurts a lot over time, being intimate with men I am into only to have it blow up in my face.

 

I am saying " no". I won't allow for it to happen again. I am at the end of my rope, it sucks to feel a guy is really into you only to have them lose interest because I was too easy.

 

It has taken me a while to arrive at his point. I secretly thought that true feelings and interest would come ahead of early sex - I was wrong.

 

I DO NOT think all the men who have lost interest were never into me to begin with - I am not dumb, I know when a guy is into me - I think it was down to early sex in at least ONE of the cases....

 

I am done with dating for a while, I gave it one last shot and I was really into the guy but ah well. My own stupid fault, at least I can admit it!

 

Do you assume your role in these men who lost interest, Venus? I do. I admit that a man or possibly two, was really into me and yet LOST interest purely because I put out too early.

 

I would hate you to NOT take action and at least TRY a different approach to sex.

[BluEyeL]

I think it's really a mixed bag here. Some will lose interest after sex. Some will leave if you DON'T have sex (but those will leave anyway because they weren't into you to start with, they were after sex) and it's actually awesome that they leave. And some, less, will stay anyway.

 

I think that, although delaying sex until you know the man better is not a foolproof way to find love, it is helpful in getting less hurt and finding love faster than you'd otherwise do.

[Leigh 87]

I think it's really a mixed bag here. Some will lose interest after sex. Some will leave if you DON'T have sex (but those will leave anyway because they weren't into you to start with, they were after sex) and it's actually awesome that they leave. And some, less, will stay anyway.

 

I think that, although delaying sex until you know the man better is not a foolproof way to find love, it is helpful in getting less hurt and finding love faster than you'd otherwise do.

 

 

And I don't blame them in a way to losing interest. They don't know I am normally not that easy - I wait a few dates at least with the men I really like.

 

He hasn't texted today so far, so I am probably assuming the worst. Which has happened many times to me. We had a Valentines day date lined up. He texted me after our date saying " did you get home okay Leigh? I had a great time last night and I cannot wait to see you again". He mentioned Saturday, Valentines day, again too. Haven't heard from him since - since yesterday afternoon.

 

When a guy doesn't text you daily he usually isn't thinking about you that much.

 

The thing with me is - I wait for the GUY to ALWAYS text me first in the early stages of dating. He needs to be interested and pave the way for me - once I know I have him, I will initiate texts some of the time.

 

If he doesn't text me at all today/tonight I know in my heart of hearts, that I am simply not on his mind - but that he will use me for sex until someone better comes along that he wants to date. Where as if I were to INITIATE - it ruins the natural progression of things... Women can cling onto hope for longer since they answer YOUR texts, and therefore you cannot rule their level of interest out. I know men - if you are on their mind, they text plain and simple. Not 100 times a day, but they do text daily they cannot help it if they are genuinely excited about having met you!

 

I think Venus initiates too much of the texting - she isn't crazy about it by any means, she doesn't come off as overzealous at all! But it is important to let the men do the initiating early on....

 

I wonder if my Irish guy will text again. Because of early sex, it doesn't seem likely. Just wish he hadn't have acted as though he was into me at he time - asked me to valentines day, texted me after I left him saying he couldn't wait to see me again and all that jazz:sick:

 

Hating myself right now for early sex.

[BluEyeL]

That's not always true, Leigh. My boyfriend of 8 months didn't text me daily in the beginning and he gave me commitment. He was textng only about every other day, or even once in three days. But was asking me out constantly: once a week for the first 2 months, then 2x/week, then 3x/week and now we meet 5X/week. But it wasn't 100% like that from the beginning. Think about it, it's not natural. he doesn't really know you, you need to let him come to you Mine increased frequency gradually and now he does text me daily. He still initiates 80% of texting even now. But definitely not in the first 2-3 months!! Granted, I only slept with him after 3 months and that's when he started to text daily and we started to see each other more than 3X/week.

[trolloperative]

Don't text.. You already responded. Remember to mirror when you do hear back, i.e. whatever time it took him to respond you take also.

 

At this point it would be wise to date around.

[venusishername]

Formatting issues...

[venusishername]

Ugh... post is coming....

Edited February 12, 2015 by venusishername

[venusishername]

He hasn't texted today so far, so I am probably assuming the worst. Which has happened many times to me. We had a Valentines day date lined up. He texted me after our date saying " did you get home okay Leigh? I had a great time last night and I cannot wait to see you again". He mentioned Saturday, Valentines day, again too. Haven't heard from him since - since yesterday afternoon.

Leigh, I'm sorry that you're upset. But I think you are WAYYY overreacting and jumping the gun! Are you telling me that you have a date for Vday and you are thinking the worst because you haven't heard in ONE DAY? Don't you agree that's a bit needy? Maybe that's something to reflect on?

It's not healthy to need to hear from someone you just started dating every single day. I personally feel that every other day or so is perfectly acceptable.

I'm sorry you're anxious. But I think you need to relax. You are beating yourself up for sleeping with him and thinking the worst. I tend to do the same. It's alright, just take a deep breath. You have a date for Vday. So shut up!

I think Venus initiates too much of the texting - she isn't crazy about it by any means, she doesn't come off as overzealous at all! But it is important to let the men do the initiating early on....

Nope. Not in this case with R anyway. I have initiated twice in over a month of daily/every day or so/two contact with him. I can't really think of any other guy I've dated that I've been so standoffish with.

I think I did initiate a lot with A (the fireman)..only because he told me he would like me to more. So I did. With R, no no no.

I was really into this guy (he is Irish, LOL...)

I'm just poking fun at you, but what's so special about an Irish guy? I'm American and we have Irish (immigrants) everywhere. I just thought it was funny you keep mentioning that this guy is Irish. Do you live somewhere it's rare to meet one? If that's your thing, it's ok.. I like men in uniform!

a guy can sense that you are relying your happiness on him and that is what is driving them away, nobody wants to be responsible for that. With your attitude, I'm sure you are giving off a "desperate" vibe no matter what you say or how you act.

Oh? I think I was more standoffish with R (as an example) than anyone I've dated. I think the last word that people who know me would use is 'desperate'. You don't know me and you have no place saying this. Maybe you have valid points but tact is certainly not your strength.

Also, stop analysing why a guy texts you randomly and doesn't reply. when i was casually dating, i'd msg guys randomly all the time, usually when I'm bored. then when I got busy i forgot to reply.

This doesn't make sense to me. I'm assuming you are pretty young, and I guess people in their teens and early twenties do this? I have a gf who is not too young but immature in a lot of ways and she texts constantly, like complete bull**** stuff and waste of time.

Personally, I'm not familiar with this. I'm in my early thirties, career, busy social life, busy... and so are the men I date. I've never been in a situation where I'm sitting around 'bored' and texted a guy, then forgot to reply. Nor has that happened with the guys I date. When a guy has contacted me, it's always for a purpose, like to ask out, or to say hi, I'm thinking about you, etc. Not this bull**** texting to pass the time out of boredom.

You may be totally right and he's doing this though! I think ultimately that's an immaturity thing. I don't interact with people for no reason, ya know?

Anyway, I'm not overanalyzing it. It just was odd that he started doing that within the past week. Whatever reason, it doesn't matter.

I am saying " no". I won't allow for it to happen again. I am at the end of my rope, it sucks to feel a guy is really into you only to have them lose interest because I was too easy.

I am done with dating for a while, I gave it one last shot and I was really into the guy but ah well. My own stupid fault, at least I can admit it!

Me too, Leigh. It's very disheartening and I also feel I am ready and NEED a break from it. The thought of meeting someone new, getting excited, wanting to trust, just beginning to open up, and then boom! disappointment.. is just too much to bear for me at the moment. I kind of would rather be with ME right now! So that's what I'm going to do. Maybe it's a good idea for us to re-center ourselves?

I jumped from A... to talking to and getting excited about M.. then R kept persisting and wouldn't give up.. so I caved... now this.

Too much effort.

Do you assume your role in these men who lost interest, Venus? I do. I admit that a man or possibly two, was really into me and yet LOST interest purely because I put out too early.

I would hate you to NOT take action and at least TRY a different approach to sex.

I think it's POSSIBLE that one or two guys I've ever been involved with lost interest subconsciously after sex. But I don't know. It could be a variety of factors that have nothing to do with sex. You are right though.. it wouldn't hurt to try something new. I intend to try it next time. But I'm not interested in meeting someone else at the moment, too tired. I don't personally think sex is the deal breaker. I see so many people hook up on the first date or third, etc. and get married, or have long relationships (myself included).... so I think it's really a crap shoot, unfortunately... like BlueEye says...

I think it's really a mixed bag here.

I think that, although delaying sex until you know the man better is not a foolproof way to find love, it is helpful in getting less hurt and finding love faster than you'd otherwise do.

I completely agree. It's timing, it's availability, it's the right 'fit', everything. LIke you've always said... it's just MORE risky to have sex earlier than later. Either way, it's a risk.

Don't text.. You already responded. Remember to mirror when you do hear back, i.e. whatever time it took him to respond you take also.At this point it would be wise to date around.

I'm confused as to the mirroring you describe. I get the general concept. So are you saying that if he contacts me tomorrow, I should wait 4 days to respond (since he last contacted me Monday?) This seems strange. What do you mean?

Either way, I think it's 50/50 chance that I'll hear from him. I had a guy disappear literally into thin air (A) after 6 weeks of dating. I'm not going to contact R though, I thought about it. I know that if he's wondering why he hasn't heard much from Venus, he'll come back around. If not, then for whatever reason he lost interest in pursuing it further, and there's nothing I can do about it except get over it.

I have no desire at all to date around right now. Way too much effort. I really do need a break.