When it rains it pours

[Sometymeswhy]

I recently joined LS but have read your entire thread. Venus, please, ditch the job and apartment and go be with your man! Put your stuff in storage and hit the road with your cat and some clothes.

 

Perfect timing with your lease ending in October. Living with roommates is never permanent anyway. And your job can't be that great if you can't afford to live on your own. No offense...I understand it's a high rent neighborhood. Is it your life goal to live in an apartment near the beach? Maybe later on you can go back. Or find another beach community near the Gulf. You've got a long life ahead of you to try different things.

 

You can easily find work in New Orleans but apparently he would he struggle with building contacts in California. He has got a house ready for you to live rent free in a city you really like. Much preferable than having him move in with you and your roommate while you support him. I get the attitude about not living together but in this situation you are being very rigid. You gotta go for it. Nothing is guaranteed. But when there is love you can work together to achieve your financial and family goals. You're very smart and determined and can make it happen. You have nothing to lose and everything to regret.

 

You've tried the online dating thing without success. Here's someone you're compatible with. He's got some quirks but at his age everyone does. And everyone at some point has financial issues. If it doesn't work out for whatever reason you can always move back and find another roommate and job. You have nothing tying you down. Right now you're frozen with indecision. Make a move girl!

 

Keep posting!

[Grisho]

Venus, my questions about how you see the saving money aspect for you meant something else. Apologies. I, obviously, didn't express myself well enough. I'll try differently.

 

You keep mentioning that, if you move to where he is, you won't have to pay for much at all, so will save loads of money. Since this means, your man continues to pay the large majority of any expenses you both incur as part of your relationship, whilst you pay token amounts (despite, in this scenario, living with him in his home, and still earning money through a new job in his city), I am asking how you view that pot of money you save. Is it your money to spend as you please? Is it money belonging to both of you (because he has been paying almost all the shared costs to enable you to save this money)? Is it something else?

[Els]

And your job can't be that great if you can't afford to live on your own.

 

Living with roommates isn't really an indicator of the quality of the job.

 

You have nothing to lose and everything to regret.

She has quite a lot to lose in this case, especially considering her (valid) misgivings about the relationship.

 

And everyone at some point has financial issues.

Having 'financial issues' in your 20s is very different from having 'financial issues' in your 40s.

 

If it doesn't work out for whatever reason you can always move back and find another roommate and job.

What if she doesn't manage to find a job, and is stuck living in his house with no job and no money? If things go south between them, how will she recover, how will she 'move back'?

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

Having 'financial issues' in your 20s is very different from having 'financial issues' in your 40s.

 

 

 

Yes and no, sometimes life takes a turn for the unexpected and for whatever reason you think you may have had enough padding for a rainy day and the hardship lasts a lot longer than planned for and that can really set you back by years. You may find yourself in your 40's or 50's playing catch-up when your 20's and 30's were easy sailing.

 

Especially for a divorced man, some men get taken to the cleaners and even give up everything for their ex-wives and kids to ensure their life is still somewhat stable and still get taken advantage of. There are so many different scenarios that we really don't anticipate in our earlier years that could very well shake your stability in later life.

 

Most people in America these days live paycheck to paycheck and their debt load is so high they are living so beyond their means that a relatively small bump in the road can really set them back for many years.

 

That doesn't trump bad spending/saving tendencies but it is easy to judge sometimes.

[Els]

Yes and no, sometimes life takes a turn for the unexpected and for whatever reason you think you may have had enough padding for a rainy day and the hardship lasts a lot longer than planned for and that can really set you back by years. You may find yourself in your 40's or 50's playing catch-up when your 20's and 30's were easy sailing.

 

Especially for a divorced man, some men get taken to the cleaners and even give up everything for their ex-wives and kids to ensure their life is still somewhat stable and still get taken advantage of. There are so many different scenarios that we really don't anticipate in our earlier years that could very well shake your stability in later life.

 

Most people in America these days live paycheck to paycheck and their debt load is so high they are living so beyond their means that a relatively small bump in the road can really set them back for many years.

 

That doesn't trump bad spending/saving tendencies but it is easy to judge sometimes.

 

I am not judging him, the fact is just that Venus is 100% sure she wants kids and a stable family home and all that jazz, and he isn't in a position to provide it. If someone is broke in their 20s it is possibly a temporary thing, if they are broke in their 40s it is likely to be more permanent. The way I see it, Venus will most likely end up in her mid 30s with this guy with her clock ticking and him still not being able to provide for the kids she wants to have (if he even agrees to have them).

 

If she didn't want kids this might not be such a big issue, but since she is sure she does, it sorta is.

[Sunkissedpatio]

What if she doesn't manage to find a job, and is stuck living in his house with no job and no money? If things go south between them, how will she recover, how will she 'move back'?

 

Nothing tests the potential of a relationship more than something like you just described, it is far more tangible and lucrative than speculating from a distance what the marriage and having children might be like based on how this guy "paid some parking tickets" or what have you.

 

It is a big risk to take, yes, and it is scary to give things up like Venus will have to but she made the choice to engage in an LDR, she has already determined that she does not find guys like her current man locally. So go for it and take the plunge on this man. She can ALWAYS come back if things don't work out.

 

I am not judging him

 

I'm sorry I didn't mean "you/Elswyth" I mean us in general here on this thread, it is easy for all us to make judgments either way ;-)

[Els]

Nothing tests the potential of a relationship more than something like you just described, it is far more tangible and lucrative than speculating from a distance what the marriage and having children might be like based on how this guy "paid some parking tickets" or what have you.

 

It is a big risk to take, yes, and it is scary to give things up like Venus will have to but she made the choice to engage in an LDR, she has already determined that she does not find guys like her current man locally. So go for it and take the plunge on this man. She can ALWAYS come back if things don't work out.

 

 

But none of this answers HOW she can afford to move back, live on her own, and look for a job... if he fails the 'test' and she ends up penniless, jobless, and homeless.

[Sunkissedpatio]

But none of this answers HOW she can afford to move back, live on her own, and look for a job... if he fails the 'test' and she ends up penniless, jobless, and homeless.

 

 

That's very true. And in that case, if I were Venus, I would sublet my place and have an exit strategy in place in case things don't pan out.

 

She has 2 options:

 

1. She lives with him and saves what she would otherwise spend in rent or a fraction of it for her own "just in case" nest. I think that is a good compromise considering she is giving all her life up to go with him,

 

2. Gets her own place, which she already expressed she would rather do....maybe shared accommodation to save $$ for the time being and to give herself let's say "6 months" as a trial living situation in this new place and seeing where the relationship goes. Then if all goes famously she can move in with him and get rid of her place back home.

 

And yes the job is a true consideration and she will not be able to move across State until she has some job lined up if she wants to live alone. And she won't be able to move back until something is secured back home in the reverse.

 

It also all depends what the master plan is, is the master plan to live in NO or in CALI?If the plan is NO then she needs to do this no matter what.

 

It's going to take some planning on her part and she will have to give up some things, but that is a fact of being in an LDR. At some point someone has to give something up for the other. You cannot go into an LDR and expect everything to fall into place just where you are. Otherwise she is suffering from the same affliction over and over again of getting whisked away by the momentary bells and whistles and making big plans on that but not seeing the big picture. You cannot live life that way.

 

Venus you said your man has been talking about him moving to CALI and looking for work there what ever happened with that discussion? If he is willing to do that...

[Sometymeswhy]

Living with roommates isn't really an indicator of the quality of the job.

 

She has quite a lot to lose in this case, especially considering her (valid) misgivings about the relationship.

 

Having 'financial issues' in your 20s is very different from having 'financial issues' in your 40s.

 

What if she doesn't manage to find a job, and is stuck living in his house with no job and no money? If things go south between them, how will she recover, how will she 'move back'?

 

Many self employed individuals in their 40's and 50's will have economic downturns. Companies love to lay off employees when they hit 50's. No guarantees. She can help him budget.

 

What if...those two words will keep your butt firmly planted in your comfort zone. More so the older you get. She stated she can work anywhere.

 

And when your expenses are low, living rent free, your work options are less limited.

 

Venus is as free as a bird and can be with her man if she wants to. That's the real key here...if she wants to. No finances need to be commingled right off the bat. Just be together and get to know each other organically. Or....go back on Tinder.

[Els]

 

It's going to take some planning on her part and she will have to give up some things, but that is a fact of being in an LDR. At some point someone has to give something up for the other. You cannot go into an LDR and expect everything to fall into place just where you are. Otherwise she is suffering from the same affliction over and over again of getting whisked away by the momentary bells and whistles and making big plans on that but not seeing the big picture. You cannot live life that way.

 

Venus you said your man has been talking about him moving to CALI and looking for work there what ever happened with that discussion? If he is willing to do that...

 

Believe me, I understand that. I did move to be with my SO, after all. But I had just finished up post-college training, so no need to give up a good job or anything, my guy had the means to support me, and I had savings that would enable me to return if things didn't work out between us. If things didn't work out, I would just have had a gap year and seen a new place (they did work out, as I hoped they would). Also, I was much younger than her and had zero plans for marriage or kids. In venus' case her sacrifice is substantially greater and I'm not seeing very good potential for their R.

 

If she DOES insist on going to live with him then I agree with you, he needs to agree to support her fully so that she can keep whatever savings she has for an exit strategy. Otherwise she shouldn't go unless she has a job lined up there.

 

Or....go back on Tinder.

 

Or... she could meet other men organically and date them. Preferably not on Tinder. Maybe she would find someone who is more compatible with her in that case.

 

Honestly, the biggest thing for me is that it doesn't sound like there's that much love between the two. It sounds to me like Venus is sticking with him because she's afraid she won't find anyone else. That is a TERRIBLE reason for staying with someone, and an even worse reason for leaving your job and apartment and moving across the country for them.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

Or... she could meet other men organically and date them. Preferably not on Tinder. Maybe she would find someone who is more compatible with her in that case.

 

Honestly, the biggest thing for me is that it doesn't sound like there's that much love between the two. It sounds to me like Venus is sticking with him because she's afraid she won't find anyone else. That is a TERRIBLE reason for staying with someone, and an even worse reason for leaving your job and apartment and moving across the country for them.

 

 

I have to agree with this. And you having had experience with LDR decisions makes sense.

 

Did they meet on Tinder? I mean...people say there are people looking for rels. on there but even when I first heard about it years ago and my girlfriends were on there I had my preconceived notions about it....

[Els]

 

Did they meet on Tinder?

 

I don't know . But the poster I quoted said 'Or....go back on Tinder.', so I was responding to that.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I don't know . But the poster I quoted said 'Or....go back on Tinder.', so I was responding to that.

 

Bahahaha this is how rumours get started...

 

OLD in general is so depressing...

Venus if I were you I'd rather move across the country than go back to OLD.

[Sometymeswhy]

Bahahaha this is how rumours get started...

 

OLD in general is so depressing...

Venus if I were you I'd rather move across the country than go back to OLD.

 

OP was on Tinder early in the thread with less than stellar results.

It seems like she is pining away for this guy who treats her so well compared to the Tinder boys so I wanted to point out the stark contrast.

 

OP is young and employable and unencumbered by children or debt. This is the time in your life to be adventurous and take risks. I've moved to new cities without a job or place to live twice and it worked out. Would I do that now in my 50s? No.

[Grisho]

Venus, can you check your lease, and confirm if you are forbidden from subletting your flat, or if you need permission.

 

Re 1 month visit...

Have you asked in work if you can take a 1 month leave of absence?

 

Re permanent move...

Have you started applying for jobs in New Orleans, and looking for accommodation?

[sagamore]

I'm tired of being single, I want to be married and have someone who loves me to come home to. He doesn't have to be perfect, and relationships aren't supposed to be easy either.

 

I can take this chance, or give up. That's where I stand today.

 

I take your point that relationships aren't meant to be perfect. At times they may not even be easy. But the above is just fatalistic thinking. You're 32, attractive, with a stable job you enjoy in a town you love. What, exactly, makes you feel like this is do or die? Why are you putting this tremendous amount of pressure on yourself and this relationship?

 

Are you still seeing a therapist? I think it would be useful for you to have someone (more qualified) help you dissect your thought process and examine your choices.

Edited August 11, 2016 by sagamore

[venusishername]

Venus: If you marry a guy with your EXACT same financial situation, do you think the two of you can afford the lifestyle you want (including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.)? Do you think he can afford to pay for the majority of your dating expenses while you are dating? Do you think you would judge harshly his financial situation because his savings are close to zero (from what described, you didn't start saving until very recently)?

To your first question- yes. With planning, budgeting, and being smart about saving and spending together. It's not going to be the lifestyle that maybe I had growing up, maybe it could be though, in time.

2) Sure, for the most part. I don't see why not. Since he doesn't actually get to 'date' me now, in place of that, I know he spends money if going out with other people or doing other things that require money. So if we were dating in the same city, I think he probably would pick up most of the costs, but I would contribute occasionally.

3) I don't understand your question. Would I judge it harshly, or have I just started really saving myself? I can't judge him harshly because I just recently started saving myself and I'm in my 30s and have no equity.

 

I recently joined LS but have read your entire thread. Venus, please, ditch the job and apartment and go be with your man! Put your stuff in storage and hit the road with your cat and some clothes.

 

Perfect timing with your lease ending in October. Living with roommates is never permanent anyway. And your job can't be that great if you can't afford to live on your own. No offense...I understand it's a high rent neighborhood. Is it your life goal to live in an apartment near the beach? Maybe later on you can go back. Or find another beach community near the Gulf. You've got a long life ahead of you to try different things.

 

You can easily find work in New Orleans but apparently he would he struggle with building contacts in California. He has got a house ready for you to live rent free in a city you really like. Much preferable than having him move in with you and your roommate while you support him. I get the attitude about not living together but in this situation you are being very rigid. You gotta go for it. Nothing is guaranteed. But when there is love you can work together to achieve your financial and family goals. You're very smart and determined and can make it happen. You have nothing to lose and everything to regret.

 

You've tried the online dating thing without success. Here's someone you're compatible with. He's got some quirks but at his age everyone does. And everyone at some point has financial issues. If it doesn't work out for whatever reason you can always move back and find another roommate and job. You have nothing tying you down. Right now you're frozen with indecision. Make a move girl! Keep posting!

Hi- it is so refreshing to read your post! I can't believe you made it through this entire thread! Wow, that is quite a feat

Thank you. I really appreciate what you said. It is very positive (refreshing on this thread recently!) and I know that I am strong and smart and I can handle it, even if things don't work out. You are right- I have nothing tying me down. I already know that I could find a good job and a nice place elsewhere, because when I did this same thing when I was 24, I made it happen. Then, when it didn't work out, I moved back, lived with my parents for a couple weeks, got my stuff out of storage, got my own place again, got a job, went back to school, and the rest is history. I did just fine. Maybe I need to have more confidence in myself, because I know I would never be "homeless and penniless" as someone else said. You know what my biggest fear is? Wasting time on the wrong guy again. The last time I left CA was for an on and off 4 year total relationship. We had been dating one year, then he left CA. I followed him. It went badly. I moved back to no job, and had to find a new place. But you know what? That part was easy, picking up the pieces. It's just the thought of losing another year(s) while I'm losing out on other opportunities with other men, maybe ones who are better suited to me. I guess there's no way to predict that, is there...?

 

I know I just need to go for it. But I can't find the determination and the strength to do it. I really can't go there and just move into his house. I did that the last time I left CA for a guy. It was on his terms and it makes me feel really uncomfortable right now. I just can't budge on the living together part, not now.

 

You keep mentioning that, if you move to where he is, you won't have to pay for much at all, so will save loads of money. Since this means, your man continues to pay the large majority of any expenses you both incur as part of your relationship, whilst you pay token amounts (despite, in this scenario, living with him in his home, and still earning money through a new job in his city), I am asking how you view that pot of money you save. Is it your money to spend as you please? Is it money belonging to both of you (because he has been paying almost all the shared costs to enable you to save this money)? Is it something else?

This is my understanding- but it doesn't seem to really be fair, does it? He is offering me a nearly free place to live, but I'm sure I will need to contribute when needed. I don't really see how this is practical, but he's offering it. Let's say I get a job that pays well enough there so that I can save more and pay off my large student loan. When I have discussed this with him, he said living with him can help me save more for a new car, or if I want to save towards a down payment on a house or condo (which I do), and I can work on paying off my loan too. To answer your question, he says that money I will be putting aside will be for my own savings, and to put down and/or pay off my own student loan. When he mentioned that if I could contribute to cooking, maybe that means I'm taking care of the groceries too. (By the way, I never actually agreed to that).

 

What if she doesn't manage to find a job, and is stuck living in his house with no job and no money? If things go south between them, how will she recover, how will she 'move back'?

Elswyth, this part doesn't worry me at all. I make these things happen. I have friends and family who would take me in for a month if things went sour. I can easily put my things in storage. I have some savings, and my family would bail me out if I lost all my money or some worst case scenario. I've actually done all this before, when I was 24. I moved out of CA for a guy, after dating him for a year. I had to move back to no job, and no place. It took me less than a month to find both and here I am, doing just fine.

 

It is a big risk to take, yes, and it is scary to give things up like Venus will have to but she made the choice to engage in an LDR, she has already determined that she does not find guys like her current man locally. So go for it and take the plunge on this man. She can ALWAYS come back if things don't work out.

I did make this choice to engage in a LDR, now I just need to have the balls not to run away from it when I'm starting to get cold feet. I know that I can always come back, I just probably won't come back to my job that I like a lot, and will never be able to live on the ocean for the price I'm paying now... but I know I can make it work if I had to come back.

With that being said, sometimes I do wonder if I could find someone locally. I did try. A family member said the other day - "couldn't you find someone who lives here!?" Like there was something wrong with me. Like I could just walk outside and meet someone I connected with, was attracted to, and who treated me well and who actually pursued me. I have to say there IS something about CA guys that's very shallow and superficial, flaky. People aren't kidding when they talk about Southern gentlemen.. he may not be very refined, but he is more of a man with better manners and is old fashioned than any of the men I've ever dated here.

But none of this answers HOW she can afford to move back, live on her own, and look for a job... if he fails the 'test' and she ends up penniless, jobless, and homeless.

HOW can I afford to move back? I will have worked, and saved, and have current savings to fall back on. It's never been hard for me to find a job because I'm ambitious, it may take me a little while to find a job comparable in pay, benefits, etc. as I do now, but I'm really not worried about it.

My parents would take me in for a month and I could have my own room there about 45 minutes away from where I live now.

 

She has 2 options:

 

1. She lives with him and saves what she would otherwise spend in rent or a fraction of it for her own "just in case" nest. I think that is a good compromise considering she is giving all her life up to go with him,

 

2. Gets her own place, which she already expressed she would rather do....maybe shared accommodation to save $$ for the time being and to give herself let's say "6 months" as a trial living situation in this new place and seeing where the relationship goes. Then if all goes famously she can move in with him and get rid of her place back home.

 

It also all depends what the master plan is, is the master plan to live in NO or in CALI?If the plan is NO then she needs to do this no matter what.

 

It's going to take some planning on her part and she will have to give up some things, but that is a fact of being in an LDR. At some point someone has to give something up for the other. You cannot go into an LDR and expect everything to fall into place just where you are. Otherwise she is suffering from the same affliction over and over again of getting whisked away by the momentary bells and whistles and making big plans on that but not seeing the big picture. You cannot live life that way.

 

Venus you said your man has been talking about him moving to CALI and looking for work there what ever happened with that discussion? If he is willing to do that...

You are right, I have two options if I were to move there. At this point in time, I do not feel comfortable moving in with him, even as a 'trial' period. I would stay as a short visit, not move in. I have already expressed my feelings about living together. I am more attracted to the idea of getting my own place there, I consider this my 'safety net', meaning I'm keeping my independence so I can bail out if it doesn't work. (Yep- I discovered I'm a commitment phobe).

Or- I have a third option. I don't do anything. I stay here, renew my lease, move forward, and if he's serious, he will come here and just like he mentioned, not long ago... he has job options here and can come out temporarily and check it out, at least we can be closer. But that would create an extension of what we are doing now. Planning these trips back and forth across the country every two months, spending money just so we can see each other for less than a week at a time. When we could be putting money into things TOGETHER and SAVING. I had a little moment earlier today when he mentioned an upcoming trip he wanted to plan out. I got upset, so I decided to hold back and write instead of talk to him about it just yet.

 

I am not sure what the master plan is as far as permanent location. I think he has always been more open to moving here than me there. However, the cost of living is much less there, so that's appealing. I am not sure, but I never thought I would leave CA again. This is my home, and my parents are here and they're getting older.... so I hate the thought of not spending as much time with them as possible. I am very close to my parents.

She can help him budget.

 

What if...those two words will keep your butt firmly planted in your comfort zone. More so the older you get. She stated she can work anywhere.

 

And when your expenses are low, living rent free, your work options are less limited.

 

Venus is as free as a bird and can be with her man if she wants to. That's the real key here...if she wants to. No finances need to be commingled right off the bat. Just be together and get to know each other organically. Or....go back on Tinder.

I will have to help him budget- I need to do the same myself. I think being single (unmarried) for most of my (and his) adult life, it's easier to spend freely and not save, not put down roots.

 

I know, I don't want to have regrets. I also don't want to waste years on another guy that is going to try and drag me down with him. I've already done this twice in my 20's and I feel like I was literally ROBBED of 8 years of my youth. I realize I'm still 'kinda' young, but not as young as I used to be and don't have loads of time to waste on bad boyfriends anymore. I'm just so tired of screwing around, shacking up, and making huge sacrifices for guys who take me for granted. This is what happened to me before. And I'm afraid he will do it to me too.

 

As far as commingling finances, it shouldn't be such a big worry just yet, especially since we won't be living together anytime soon. So I think the idea is to just get to the same city, somehow, and date for a bit of time and see how it feels then.

Honestly, the biggest thing for me is that it doesn't sound like there's that much love between the two. It sounds to me like Venus is sticking with him because she's afraid she won't find anyone else. That is a TERRIBLE reason for staying with someone, and an even worse reason for leaving your job and apartment and moving across the country for them.

This isn't true at all!! Of COURSE there is love between us, how else you sustain a LDR for almost a year and daily contact? You don't know the conversations and connections we have.

Also-I think that there are other options for me, of course. I've never had trouble actually finding a date, or dating. I just had problems finding a good boyfriend!!

Venus if I were you I'd rather move across the country than go back to OLD.

Oh HELL yes! Me too. Screw OLD, I vow to never ever do it again. I've done Match, OKC, Tinder, now I hear the big thing is Bumble but I have to laugh when I hear my single friends talk about it. What a waste of my time. I never ever dated for more than one date someone I met online. The guys I actually had a genuine connection with- have been ones I've been organically, and this is the only way it can be for me. So yes, I would also rather quit my job and move across the country than ever look for men online ever again.

 

OP is young and employable and unencumbered by children or debt. This is the time in your life to be adventurous and take risks.

Thanks, that makes me feel better about things.

Venus, can you check your lease, and confirm if you are forbidden from subletting your flat, or if you need permission.

 

Re 1 month visit...

Have you asked in work if you can take a 1 month leave of absence?

 

Re permanent move...

Have you started applying for jobs in New Orleans, and looking for accommodation?

Grisho (and all): I'm not allowed to sublease (legally). I can probably get away with it for a month, but certainly not longer than that.

No, I have not asked my work about taking a 1 month leave; because I'm afraid they would tell me to not come back, then I don't go and then I'm screwed.

Yes, I have half-heartedly looked for jobs in NO but I would rather go in person or talk on the phone and ask some questions rather than browsing CL or job boards. He did take me to the area of NO last time to check it out and see where the firms are that I might be interested in. Maybe this next time we can do that again, he was just getting me familiar with the area.

But the above is just fatalistic thinking. You're 32, attractive, with a stable job you enjoy in a town you love. What, exactly, makes you feel like this is do or die? Why are you putting this tremendous amount of pressure on yourself and this relationship?

Are you still seeing a therapist? I think it would be useful for you to have someone (more qualified) help you dissect your thought process and examine your choices.

That's a good question. I'm not sure why it's do or die, but I know I am prone to fatalistic thinking. I think because I feel a tremendous pressure from my peers, family, and many friends... to marry and have my own family. And I put this upon myself. I think sometimes that there may be something wrong with me, that's why I'm single and most of the people in my age group, and family for that matter, are married with kid(s)..or at least married, or were married before. I feel a pressure because I don't want to be alone anymore, I don't want to get screwed over and manipulated by another guy again, and I just want security, and a family unit. A family unit means a partner, a partner and a child, a partner and a cat, dog, bird, etc. Someone to come home to.

My younger cousins are married and one has three kids already. She's a housewife and proud of it. I don't want to be a housewife, I just want a good man. Sometimes I think she judges me that I am single and have no kids.

So- to answer your question....I feel a pressure because I feel I wasted all of my 20s on bad boyfriends, and some short term superficial relationships that you read earlier in this thread... and now I have to make up for the lost time. Because if I don't do it now, I will be too old to have children, I'll be a 40+ year old bride, I'll never have the wedding I wanted, I'll lose out. I don't want to lose out anymore. I feel left out from almost all of my friends and family who have a husband and now family to go home to.

 

I have not been seeing my therapist recently, but she did reach out lately and I thought about going in and spending the money. My insurance doesn't cover it anymore, so I have to pay out of pocket and it's not cheap, but I really like her. I think it would be good to make an appointment.

[Grisho]

I thank you again, Venus. You allow us all to ask questions and post our thoughts, and you take it all graciously. Your story helps me a lot. I mull over things in my life, and the lives of my friends, when I read posts on this thread. I also find it energising to see how many people have invested in your situation, following this (very long) thread, always pushing you to update us, offering their perspective, etc... There are loads of people genuinely rooting for "a stranger on the internet" - isn't that formidable?

 

With planning, budgeting, and being smart about saving and spending together.

 

I want to comment specifically on the word "together". You were answering this question "If you marry a guy with your EXACT same financial situation, do you think the two of you can afford the lifestyle you want (including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.)?".

 

Your answer is at complete odds with your other posts:

 

1) that he'd be paying all the shared expenses if you live together, regardless of you having a stable job and income

2) that he'd be paying all the dating expenses eternally in your relationship, regardless of you having a stable job and income

3) that the money you'd save from him paying 1) and 2) remains your money to spend on whatever you please

 

The only person who's sharing (therefore showing togetherness), based on 1), 2) and 3) is your man. In fact, his mentality is more than sharing, in my eyes - I see his mentality as "what's mine is yours".

 

I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of both contributing money, or 1 contributing money, but would like to see if you also see 2 conflicting ideas in your posts.

 

It's not going to be the lifestyle that maybe I had growing up, maybe it could be though, in time.

 

I recall you posting about problems with your childhood, especially concerning your dad. My sincere apologies if I am wrong. If I am right, why has the narrative now changed to it having been some sort of idyllic childhood?

 

2) Sure, for the most part. I don't see why not. Since he doesn't actually get to 'date' me now, in place of that, I know he spends money if going out with other people or doing other things that require money. So if we were dating in the same city, I think he probably would pick up most of the costs, but I would contribute occasionally.

 

I want to comment on this. You were answering the question "Do you think he can afford to pay for the majority of your dating expenses while you are dating?".

 

This man is spending on dating you already. Long-distance dating costs loads of money in travel expenses and time off from work. He has paid every shared costs (aside from some token contributions from you) so far.

 

Your posts reads to me as if, were you to live there, you're either:

-expecting him to devote all the money he spends otherwise to you, too, which isn't realistic, as he'll still want to spend money on friends and spend money on activities

-expecting him to be so flush with money, that he still spends on friends and activities as he always did, and then spends more money on all the dating expenses you both are responsible for

 

Can you please explain your thinking more?

 

I have nothing tying me down. I already know that I could find a good job and a nice place elsewhere, because when I did this same thing when I was 24, I made it happen. Then, when it didn't work out, I moved back, lived with my parents for a couple weeks, got my stuff out of storage, got my own place again, got a job, went back to school, and the rest is history. I did just fine. Maybe I need to have more confidence in myself, because I know I would never be "homeless and penniless" as someone else said. You know what my biggest fear is? Wasting time on the wrong guy again. The last time I left CA was for an on and off 4 year total relationship. We had been dating one year, then he left CA. I followed him. It went badly. I moved back to no job, and had to find a new place.

 

I've lived all over the world, and cannot advocate strongly enough the need for you to be receptive to finding a life for yourself in New Orleans, irrespective of what happens with the man. If you move there, find your own friends, build your own community, get involved in local voluntary efforts, establish a life there that is independent of the man. You'll never settle, and never be able to objectively review your relationship, if you are always stuck on the point that you moved there only for him, and wouldn't want to be there otherwise.

 

I can save more and pay off my large student loan.

 

How much student debt do you have?

 

Grisho (and all): I'm not allowed to sublease (legally). I can probably get away with it for a month, but certainly not longer than that.

 

Venus, sorry to labour this, but so many people misinterpret legal clauses, so I want to be very clear. Is it forbidden in your lease entirely, or do you need permission to do it?

 

No, I have not asked my work about taking a 1 month leave; because I'm afraid they would tell me to not come back, then I don't go and then I'm screwed.

 

Ok, but then why did you raise this on here as a possible option, if it'd never be an option?

----

Lastly, I think you should both have a clear idea of what accommodation would cost in either location, should 1 of you move there, and not live with the other. Do you both have this? Would you each be looking to live in a flatshare, or alone?

Edited August 12, 2016 by Grisho

[No_Go]

Venus, marriage is NOT wedding. Marriage is becoming a unit - a fiscal unit among other aspects. I.e. If you're really thinking marriage it is mind boggling why you're talking saving money by living with him. Whoever of you spends- money of a marriage unit are ONE entity (i.e. Whatever is spend by one of you is spend by both of you).

 

I feel like you're not looking to get married in practical terms, but more like a fairy tale dream. If you say it is too early to commingle - YOU are NOT ready even for engagement, let alone marriage. The delay is not because of him.

[Grisho]

Venus, marriage is NOT wedding. Marriage is becoming a unit - a fiscal unit among other aspects. I.e. If you're really thinking marriage it is mind boggling why you're talking saving money by living with him. Whoever of you spends- money of a marriage unit are ONE entity (i.e. Whatever is spend by one of you is spend by both of you).

 

I feel like you're not looking to get married in practical terms, but more like a fairy tale dream. If you say it is too early to commingle - YOU are NOT ready even for engagement, let alone marriage. The delay is not because of him.

 

With 2 working spouses earning broadly similar amounts, I'm an advocate of the model "some shared money/accounts (for shared expenses and shared savings), and some individual money/accounts (for everything else)". If you are advocating that, then I agree entirely. If you are advocating complete sharing of any money, even money in existence prior to the relationship, and money earnt during the relationship that isn't required to pay for shared expenses and savings, then I disagree. I would never be willing to share like that, and wouldn't, personally, advocate that model to anyone, regardless of their relationship's status.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Grisho

[No_Go]

I'm totally for having individual accounts, but that is just for internal needs (avoiding micromanaging). Except inheritance, in front of the law anything acquired during the marriage is a common property (at least in CA and LA, I don't know how it is in Europe but see the quotes below):

 

'If you live in a community property state (Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin), spouses are considered equal owners of everything acquired or earned during marriage, and property is divided 50/50 during divorce regardless of who earned it or whose name is on the title'

 

'Once you’re married, regardless of whose name the credit card or loan is in, all debt accrued by your spouse during your marriage will become your debt, too, if you live in a community property state'

 

If we're talking cohabitation without marriage/common law - then yes, there are individual rights over money. In marriage - not so much, legally.

 

With 2 working spouses earning broadly similar amounts, I'm an advocate of the model "some shared money/accounts (for shared expenses and shared savings), and some individual money/accounts (for everything else)". If you are advocating that, then I agree entirely. If you are advocating complete sharing of any money, even money in existence prior to the relationship, and money earnt during the relationship that isn't required to pay for shared expenses and savings, then I disagree. I would never be willing to share like that, and wouldn't, personally, advocate that model to anyone, regardless of their relationship's status.

Edited August 12, 2016 by No_Go

[Grisho]

I'm totally for having individual accounts, but that is just for internal needs (avoiding micromanaging). Except inheritance, in front of the law anything acquired during the marriage is a common property (at least in CA and LA, I don't know how it is in Europe but see the quotes below):

 

'If you live in a community property state (Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin), spouses are considered equal owners of everything acquired or earned during marriage, and property is divided 50/50 during divorce regardless of who earned it or whose name is on the title'

 

'Once you’re married, regardless of whose name the credit card or loan is in, all debt accrued by your spouse during your marriage will become your debt, too, if you live in a community property state'

 

If we're talking cohabitation without marriage/common law - then yes, there are individual rights over money. In marriage - not so much, legally.

 

It's 3 things:

A mentality that needs to be agreed before and throughout cohabitation or marriage

A way of life that has to be established throughout cohabitation or marriage

A set of legal clauses in cohabitation agreements, pre-nup's and so on, in the event that separation or divorce come into play.

 

It doesn't matter if certain cities have antiquated ideas about money and property. One can keep accounts, savings and money outside of those places, and get married/set up one's cohabitation agreements in other places.

 

I always wonder why people imagine "Europe", consisting of many countries, cultures and a huge mix of different people, to be 1 hive mind. There's no such thing as a legal position, opinion, culture etc etc that is generic across Europe. Not trying to be rude in pointing this out, but it's important that people realise this.

[No_Go]

Ha I'm 100% European so let me say I know that it is depending on the country But I referred to 'Europe' because I assumed you are European and didn't know which country are you at.

 

Marriage is a legal contract. Antiquated or not - it's legal aspects come with it. Some people don't like it - then they just never marry (in my country of origin >50% of people have kids without marriage, maybe it is because the aforementioned reasons).

 

Venus wants to marry - I.e. She accepts the legal aspects if marriage. Prenups mainly protect property obtained BEFORE marriage, even they lose value in long-term marriages.

 

Read about it. You sound very young, I didn't know about these issues until I reached 30 and start consider marriage;)

 

P.S. Keeping money/assets unreported is a felony (tax evasion)... Not a good advice.

 

It's 3 things:

A mentality that needs to be agreed before and throughout cohabitation or marriage

A way of life that has to be established throughout cohabitation or marriage

A set of legal clauses in cohabitation agreements, pre-nup's and so on, in the event that separation or divorce come into play.

 

It doesn't matter if certain cities have antiquated ideas about money and property. One can keep accounts, savings and money outside of those places, and get married/set up one's cohabitation agreements in other places.

 

I always wonder why people imagine "Europe", consisting of many countries, cultures and a huge mix of different people, to be 1 hive mind. There's no such thing as a legal position, opinion, culture etc etc that is generic across Europe. Not trying to be rude in pointing this out, but it's important that people realise this.

Edited August 12, 2016 by No_Go

[venusishername]

Venus, marriage is NOT wedding. Marriage is becoming a unit - a fiscal unit among other aspects. I.e. If you're really thinking marriage it is mind boggling why you're talking saving money by living with him. Whoever of you spends- money of a marriage unit are ONE entity (i.e. Whatever is spend by one of you is spend by both of you).

 

I feel like you're not looking to get married in practical terms, but more like a fairy tale dream. If you say it is too early to commingle - YOU are NOT ready even for engagement, let alone marriage. The delay is not because of him.

Come on. I think you are spinning things here. It was not my idea to move in with him, sock away my own money and hoard it for myself and not contribute or plan together for joint expenses. The facts are- he has offered me to move in, for no cost except I would help contribute to the food expenses. That's pretty vague, isn't it? He says I could save the money I make working to pay off my loan and maybe get a new car, or save in general. I never said I wouldn't be interested or would like to pool money together with him. That was something you said. I said it is too early to commingle because.... I'm not living with him right now. So why get all the nuts and bolts of the numbers he has in the bank, pension, etc.? That's all I meant. We aren't married, and we don't even live together. So why am I concerning myself with the fine details of finances right now? There's no need yet. IF I did live with him, then yes, of course, there would be some commingling of money.

 

I want to comment specifically on the word "together". You were answering this question "If you marry a guy with your EXACT same financial situation, do you think the two of you can afford the lifestyle you want (including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.)?".

 

Your answer is at complete odds with your other posts:

 

1) that he'd be paying all the shared expenses if you live together, regardless of you having a stable job and income

2) that he'd be paying all the dating expenses eternally in your relationship, regardless of you having a stable job and income

3) that the money you'd save from him paying 1) and 2) remains your money to spend on whatever you please

 

I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of both contributing money, or 1 contributing money, but would like to see if you also see 2 conflicting ideas in your posts.

Ok, I guess I can see why you would be confused by this. Let's just keep it simple and one step at a time. He is offering me to live with him and save my money I'm currently spending on my own rent. No further discussion has been had about other costs, shared expenses, etc., other than him suggesting that I could contribute to the cooking, food, etc. So I think we are getting ahead of ourselves by speculating that he will be paying ALL or most of the costs and I'll just be hoarding it away for myself. I don't see that happening. I think he's just trying to offer me a good situation where I don't have to spend so much in rent. That's it right now.

 

I recall you posting about problems with your childhood, especially concerning your dad. My sincere apologies if I am wrong. If I am right, why has the narrative now changed to it having been some sort of idyllic childhood?

I never said it was idyllic. I grew up privileged and had a comfortable life, not wanting for anything. My dad wasn't very reliable at times and was not there for me in moments of my life the way I wanted and needed him to be. He was not always stable. We have always had a close relationship but not without some issues, I guess.

You were answering the question "Do you think he can afford to pay for the majority of your dating expenses while you are dating?". This man is spending on dating you already. Long-distance dating costs loads of money in travel expenses and time off from work. He has paid every shared costs (aside from some token contributions from you) so far.

 

Your posts reads to me as if, were you to live there, you're either:

-expecting him to devote all the money he spends otherwise to you, too, which isn't realistic, as he'll still want to spend money on friends and spend money on activities

-expecting him to be so flush with money, that he still spends on friends and activities as he always did, and then spends more money on all the dating expenses you both are responsible for

 

Can you please explain your thinking more?

I don't expect him to do anything. He's offering to pay the living expenses if I move in, save my cooking or food costs, etc. I don't also expect him to pay for all of our dating costs if that was the case. As of right now? He does pay for most of our dating costs, but I contribute where possible. For example, half my plane ticket, or all of my ticket to Mexico, a dinner here, a coffee there. Again, one step at a time.

 

I've lived all over the world, and cannot advocate strongly enough the need for you to be receptive to finding a life for yourself in New Orleans, irrespective of what happens with the man. If you move there, find your own friends, build your own community, get involved in local voluntary efforts, establish a life there that is independent of the man. You'll never settle, and never be able to objectively review your relationship, if you are always stuck on the point that you moved there only for him, and wouldn't want to be there otherwise.

But I have no desire to move to NO if it wasn't for him. So in effect, I would be moving only for him. I am perfectly happy here in CA.

 

How much student debt do you have?

More than $25k. That's not too much compared to other people, but it's a looming number.

 

Venus, sorry to labour this, but so many people misinterpret legal clauses, so I want to be very clear. Is it forbidden in your lease entirely, or do you need permission to do it?

I'm pretty familiar with legal clauses, and I am familiar with my landlord. It is very clear that subletting is not allowed. End of story, it's not an option, ok?

Lastly, I think you should both have a clear idea of what accommodation would cost in either location, should 1 of you move there, and not live with the other. Do you both have this? Would you each be looking to live in a flatshare, or alone?

Yes we both have an idea. I think I have actually looked into housing more than he has. If i moved there, I would probably rent out a furnished one bedroom apartment and live alone.

[Grisho]

Ha I'm 100% European so let me say I know that it is depending on the country But I referred to 'Europe' because I assumed you are European and didn't know which country are you at.

 

Marriage is a legal contract. Antiquated or not - it's legal aspects come with it. Some people don't like it - then they just never marry (in my country of origin >50% of people have kids without marriage, maybe it is because the aforementioned reasons).

 

Venus wants to marry - I.e. She accepts the legal aspects if marriage. Prenups mainly protect property obtained BEFORE marriage, even they lose value in long-term marriages.

 

Read about it. You sound very young, I didn't know about these issues until I reached 30 and start consider marriage;)

 

P.S. Keeping money/assets unreported is a felony (tax evasion)... Not a good advice.

 

Nobody's advocating hiding money and assets. I draft legal contracts often, and have reviewed circa 40 cohabitation agreements and pre nup's in juristictions all over the world. I'd call myself knowledgeable on this topic, and also young (why are you thinking youth is something to slight me with?). Bizarre on your part.

 

I think you haven't understood what I typed, else you wouldn't have introduced these odd themes of hiding money and marriage being antiquated. If you respond to things I've actually conveyed, I'd be more than happy to comment on them.