When it rains it pours

[introverted1]

I'd be less harsh on venus. The move we are all suggesting is very drastic. She is clearly not there, not ready to make these sacrifices. I know I wouldn't have been ready at under one year of relationship, especially long distance, to just drop everything and go. Perhaps she'll be ready at some point, but it's a huge thing to ask her to do. Maybe this is why she keeps analyzing him so much, she needs to make sure he's worth such a risk.

 

I completely agree with this.

 

The only reason I (and perhaps others) have been advocating a different course is because Venus herself has expressed repeatedly that she feels some pressure (unclear if it is self-imposed or from her bf or a combination of both) to resolve the future of the relationship.

 

So Venus can either wait it out and let things unfold at a natural pace OR she can advance the pace by doing things that might seem premature to some of us, but what she can't (or rather, shouldn't) do is continue to pressure herself to make a decision NOW while simultaneously declaring off the table any of the actions that would allow that to occur.

[No_Go]

I completely agree with this.

 

The only reason I (and perhaps others) have been advocating a different course is because Venus herself has expressed repeatedly that she feels some pressure (unclear if it is self-imposed or from her bf or a combination of both) to resolve the future of the relationship.

 

So Venus can either wait it out and let things unfold at a natural pace OR she can advance the pace by doing things that might seem premature to some of us, but what she can't (or rather, shouldn't) do is continue to pressure herself to make a decision NOW while simultaneously declaring off the table any of the actions that would allow that to occur.

 

Indeed ^

 

All the contradicting advice is because she expects an imminent proposal (heck she said a KID next year AFTER marriage, so not imminent proposal but imminent marriage).

 

On the other side she's clearly not ready and evaluating if he's ticking her boxes.

 

IMO this relationship needs AT LEAST one more year to get to the stage of engagement. She probably can shorten this time a bit if she takes actions to shorten the distance (for guy with a house and kids it is downright selfish to expect him to move. He has ties that she doesn't). Otherwise she'll probably get married faster (her goal) if she ditches this guy and starts de novo with somebody in her city that has the same goal (fast-track marriage) and place in life (never married, no kids). Forcing fast-track engagement with her current BF at best will give her a pacifier-ring and year(s)-long engagement until the relationship matures naturally.

[BluEyeL]

I agree that it's not ripe for marriage and venus needs to slow herself down a bit. Calm the anxiety, find ways to do that. And wait it out. I am familiar with the type of anxiety she's facing. I've been there for about 6 months in my relationship, just after one year when I decided I wanted to get married and wasn't sure if he wanted to. Turned out he did, but I know how the anxiety feels. Ugh! Not pleasant.

 

Of course starting with someone would also be a way, but I won't suggest it since she's not at that point either. I think she'll get either to the marriage/moving/being all in stage when it's time, or at breaking up time if that's the case.

[No_Go]

I am familiar with the type of anxiety she's facing. I've been there for about 6 months in my relationship, just after one year when I decided I wanted to get married and wasn't sure if he wanted to. - I think that's very common around one year of dating and I had that freak out too (and later understood my BF had it as well around the same time but we were both unaware of the fear of the other ) But even now that we're at almost 1.5 years and living together, just now I can see an engagement to make sense - before it was the desire to get validated and meet life goals (in my case fear that it is getting late for kids).

 

However, Venus' BF told her that he's interested in marriage and wants to get engaged after seeing if they are compatible day-to-day. That's a very fair way to put it and very reasonable request. If he was a conartist - he'd just fake an engagement promise and break it later. Instead he told her the truth that he needs more time. Why she's 'punishing' him for this? I don't see where he's doing anything unethical here - all his cards are on the table.

 

I agree that it's not ripe for marriage and venus needs to slow herself down a bit. Calm the anxiety, find ways to do that. And wait it out. I am familiar with the type of anxiety she's facing. I've been there for about 6 months in my relationship, just after one year when I decided I wanted to get married and wasn't sure if he wanted to. Turned out he did, but I know how the anxiety feels. Ugh! Not pleasant.

 

Of course starting with someone would also be a way, but I won't suggest it since she's not at that point either. I think she'll get either to the marriage/moving/being all in stage when it's time, or at breaking up time if that's the case.

[venusishername]

But at this point I think you are the only one standing between you and a future with this guy. If deep down in your heart you're this reluctant to do what it takes to be with him there's probably an important reason.

I am not sure if my fear is getting in the way or my intuition is trying to tell me something. I really do think I'm struggling with some fears and commitment issues. I know I need to do some reflecting. I'm getting in the way of myself.

 

Step away and do some introspection away from the noise. You may have had a few concerns coming on here but seeing so many conflicting opinions is now creating a confusion in you I don't even believe you had prior to doing all this crowd sourcing.

 

You've called a friend, you've asked the audience and used up all your lifelines, it's time to make the deal Venus. I'm definitely rooting for your happy ending with Mr New Orleans

Thanks, Sunkissed. I liked your analogy of 'Who Wants to be Millionaire"

I have some reflecting to do and I need some way of doing that which

Venus, this doesn't appear like a loving relationship at the slightest. You think of it as tit for tat - I make sacrifices of and only if he makes sacrifices.

 

Closing the distance shouldn't FEEL like a sacrifice but as a leap to be together with the love of your life. I'm the most unromantic person in this forum and this sacrifice talk still hits me as cold and calculated...

 

Here your pride is taking a huge toll on your happiness - your desire HIM to be the first to 'sacrifice' may kill a relationship with a man you want to marry!

I know it seems strange, I don't mean to be tit for tat. I have some issues that I think are making it seem that way. I gave up a lot for my last bf, left CA before to be with him, I felt like he really took advantage of me in so many ways, and I was treated badly and sacrificed way more than he ever did. He was so selfish it was twisted. I think I'm really carrying that over to my current bf, because 1) I don't know him as well as I did my last bf, and 2) because I don't want to throw myself on the line like I did last time. I know sometimes I'm being too proud and cynical.

Venus, this is so spot on! I, too, have been really uncomfortable with your calculation of sacrifices. If you moving to NOLA results in the happy life-long relationship you want, there is NO sacrifice. A sacrifice mentality either means you expect it to NOT work out, or that you don't see him as fully "in," either of which suggests that something is off.

 

You complain often than his actions don't align with his words but, in many cases, yours don't either. You know that you need to spend non-vacation type time together, yet you keep planning vacation type times with him. You haven't asked about taking additional (perhaps unpaid) time off so you can go there and experience daily life (with you in an AirBnB or similar). Maybe you should defer this month's vacation time and use that time plus some unpaid time to spend 2-3 weeks in NOLA in your own place. Ask him to split that cost with you -- it's a worthwhile investment in your mutual futures.

Good luck!

Thanks No Go. You are right about the sacrifice mentality being NO sacrifice. I can see it that way instead of from my view of cynicism and fear.

I realize it seems like an easy solution to go there and spend a couple weeks, but I guess we are not seeing eye to eye about how much time off I am allowed for the remaining year, and to take three or four weeks off without pay would not only be disallowed, but I would lose a pretty large chunk of money that I would need to actually pay my own rent, bills, and pay for an Airbnb.

I'm not going to NO unless I'm all in. Like Blue goes on to say...

I'd be less harsh on venus. The move we are all suggesting is very drastic. She is clearly not there, not ready to make these sacrifices. I know I wouldn't have been ready at under one year of relationship, especially long distance, to just drop everything and go. Perhaps she'll be ready at some point, but it's a huge thing to ask her to do. Maybe this is why she keeps analyzing him so much, she needs to make sure he's worth such a risk.

 

I don't think spending 2-3 weeks in a different place would make much of a difference. It's a bit far fetched and forced. I think when/if she's ready to close the distance gap, she'll need to just quit her job and get a new one in NOLA. Maybe in a few more months, if she decides it's worth it.

 

IMO, women should actually be a bit more calculating, on average. Generally women tend to jump in head first, drop everything for a man and then get screwed over. I think this situation is difficult, I think it is necessary to close the distance gap, but I don't fault her for not being ready yet. It's not even been one year and they have barely seen each other.

I don't feel ready yet. Thank you, BlueEye for understanding that's what this is about. I actually told him that last night. I said I don't feel ready, and I could use his help, if he can meet me halfway and maybe try to get out here for a month instead, it would be really nice. He said he could work on that, maybe by the end of the year that would be a possibility.

 

Also, you are right on in that most women (including the past me) jumped in fast, drop everything for a man and then get screwed over. This happened to me, so I'm very, very cautious.

Oh! Thanks Kamille for clarifying. Didn't they meet online?

I stand corrected.

My apologies, I'm getting stories confused on here.

We met in person, while I was on vacation in NO.

 

I agree that it's not ripe for marriage and venus needs to slow herself down a bit. Calm the anxiety, find ways to do that. And wait it out. I am familiar with the type of anxiety she's facing. I've been there for about 6 months in my relationship, just after one year when I decided I wanted to get married and wasn't sure if he wanted to. Turned out he did, but I know how the anxiety feels. Ugh! Not pleasant.

I think she'll get either to the marriage/moving/being all in stage when it's time, or at breaking up time if that's the case.

Thanks again, BlueEye. I know that I'll get to the point where I am as sure as I can be, one way or the other. That takes time and reflection and I'm doing my best to do that. Can't be forced.

 

However, Venus' BF told her that he's interested in marriage and wants to get engaged after seeing if they are compatible day-to-day. That's a very fair way to put it and very reasonable request. If he was a conartist - he'd just fake an engagement promise and break it later. Instead he told her the truth that he needs more time. Why she's 'punishing' him for this? I don't see where he's doing anything unethical here - all his cards are on the table.

This is a good point. I know that he wants to live with me in order to see if we are compatible day to day, not because he's trying to manipulate or take advantage of me (the way I tend to spin it is that way because my ex ****ed me up so bad). I still don't feel that living together is a prerequisite to finding if we are actually compatible in order to feel ready to get married. I don't believe living together is a requirement for marriage, and so that is off the table for me. I need to keep my own place, whether here or there, until we are getting married. Period. If he can't respect that, I would understand.

 

What would make me feel more comfortable is if he were to actually take a real action (not just words) to get licensed in CA, get out here again and get some job prospect information, and actually save money as I am doing. I reminded him that I would have to be saving money and coming with a cushion if I were to move to NO, I think it would be only fair that he does the same.

[No_Go]

I know it seems strange, I don't mean to be tit for tat. I have some issues that I think are making it seem that way. I gave up a lot for my last bf, left CA before to be with him, I felt like he really took advantage of me in so many ways, and I was treated badly and sacrificed way more than he ever did. He was so selfish it was twisted. I think I'm really carrying that over to my current bf, because 1) I don't know him as well as I did my last bf, and 2) because I don't want to throw myself on the line like I did last time. I know sometimes I'm being too proud and cynical.

 

Ok, reading this ^ it makes more sense. Is this the guy that you wrote before about being in jail (repeatedly)? I can see how this will traumatize you (from personal experience - I had a horror story live-in ex as well).

 

It is a normal, human fear that you can work on. Reading between the lines - am I right that you think your past relationship failed because you made too many sacrifices so he took you as a pushover? Or is it because of living together / moving states prior to marriage? I feel like it is neither of those - just the guy was an as*hole and would find a way to speculate with you regardless of moving states, living together or not.

 

In contrast, your current BF seems like a man with integrity. HE is probably also scared and sad because of his failed relationship with his ex-wife. Do you know was he quick to marry her? Did they live together before? THis may explain his behavior...

 

Just from my own experience - my relationship was in the rocks when I compared my BF to my ex. In my case my ex sucked my money - I'd be freaking out every day that my BF will do the same (he was also not stable financially so it wasn't too far-fetched). In my case I had to spell out to him explicitly why I'm so worried that he'll speculate financially with me (my ex that did that; btw I met my BF just 2 months after breaking up with my ex so wounds were fresh)...

 

Btw living for a month on a neutral territory is not a bad idea if you both can afford it (assuming you won't share a place, so you'd both pay rent in your respective cities and both pay accommodation in the neutral location... This may come pricey, but still better than doing nothing and spinning in frustration:)).

[venusishername]

Ok, reading this ^ it makes more sense. Is this the guy that you wrote before about being in jail (repeatedly)? I can see how this will traumatize you (from personal experience - I had a horror story live-in ex as well).

 

It is a normal, human fear that you can work on. Reading between the lines - am I right that you think your past relationship failed because you made too many sacrifices so he took you as a pushover? Or is it because of living together / moving states prior to marriage? I feel like it is neither of those - just the guy was an as*hole and would find a way to speculate with you regardless of moving states, living together or not.

 

In contrast, your current BF seems like a man with integrity. HE is probably also scared and sad because of his failed relationship with his ex-wife. Do you know was he quick to marry her? Did they live together before? THis may explain his behavior...

 

Yes, it was the ex I mentioned before who stalked me for a couple years after we broke up. I don't know if our relationship failed because he took me as a pushover, but the point I was trying to make is that I left CA to be with him, to live with him, after dating one year, it sucked and I had to eventually leave. I had a cute place and a good job that I gave up and had to start over once I got back. I picked up where I left off and got things done, but my ex came in and out of my life for several years, even after I told him I didn't want to be with him anymore, and we lived together, and he never once had any intention of marrying me, or ever acted that way, for that matter. I feel like I was taken advantage of. Every time I acted out of independence, he tried to cut me down, and push my boundaries. I think that's why I get infuriated when my current bf keeps asking me to move in. I feel like he's infringing on my boundaries or something and not respecting that I feel more comfortable keeping a part of my independence as far as not living together.

 

Yes, he lived with his ex wife before marrying her. As I found out, it wasn't very long between living together and engagement, and they had already known each other for a year or so. He said they were just friends first, and later started dating. I believe the entire time they were together was under 5 years, and he was divorced within the past 2 years. I can see he's not eager to jump back into things, but the fact that he has asked me to move in, is a big deal. Being that he has only asked one other woman to live with him before, and he ended up marrying her... I see that he is sincere.

[lana-banana]

Do you guys at least agree that you need to live in the same city, but not together, before an engagement? If so then that's like half the battle. You can sit down and decide who is moving, when, and for how long. I would also agree that 2-3 weeks isn't a long enough time. Now if you can work a lengthy road trip in there, one that involves a broken music player and narrowly avoided cops---then you can really test your compatibility. (It worked for us!)

[No_Go]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Your ex's story is awful and I really think you should tell your BF so he doesn't wonder why you refuse moving in (telling him that it is not lack of interest towards him, but you have scars from the past and don't want to repeat your mistakes). Then he should respect your desire not to live in together, and no bring it anymore.

 

The ex-wife... On one side, it is affirming that he engaged to her soon after moving together (I assume that's the plan he had in mind with you). On the other side - I encourage you to learn more about the divorce. When was it? Who initiated? Why? Without knowing the details, I'd say such a short marriage (they knew each other for 5 years including being friends, dating and marriage, right?), and the shortness of time from divorce to initiating the relationship with you (Max an year if you know each other from an year and they divorced in <=2 years), are pink flags.... Maybe not, maybe red, it will depend on his explanation.

 

Also, do they have any legal ties? Alimony etc? This could give you more info about his readiness/desire/lack of desire to marry again...

[Sunkissedpatio]

Yes, it was the ex I mentioned before who stalked me for a couple years after we broke up. I don't know if our relationship failed because he took me as a pushover, but the point I was trying to make is that I left CA to be with him, to live with him, after dating one year, it sucked and I had to eventually leave. I had a cute place and a good job that I gave up and had to start over once I got back. I picked up where I left off and got things done, but my ex came in and out of my life for several years, even after I told him I didn't want to be with him anymore, and we lived together, and he never once had any intention of marrying me, or ever acted that way, for that matter. I feel like I was taken advantage of. Every time I acted out of independence, he tried to cut me down, and push my boundaries. I think that's why I get infuriated when my current bf keeps asking me to move in. I feel like he's infringing on my boundaries or something and not respecting that I feel more comfortable keeping a part of my independence as far as not living together.

 

 

Oh dear oh dear Venus NOW I feel your pain! So you didn't meet online, you met him while on vacation and you did a big move for a past guy and things didn't work out. This really thickens the plot and I see your conundrum now.

 

That's a big leap of faith to go and give up everything for this man to try to see where it goes. I totally see your hesitation now. I commend you on your strength in persevering through though. After your last experience and given the complexity of your current situation you are quite the daredevil (I mean that in a very good way) good for you!

 

I suppose the best option then is to wait it out for another year and continue to do the long distance thing and see where you can close the gap wherever possible in the next year.

 

I'm sorry my opinion seems flippant I am seeing things differently now with the added info. And now that I "duhhh" realized you met on vaca and not online (ie. premeditated LDR)

[SleeplessIn]

While I understand how bad past relationships can create mental/emotional hurdles and other cautions, the fact remains that THIS relationship is NOT any one of those past relationships. THIS current man has not done anything bad to Venus; on the contrary he's done nothing but good things to her and for her. Venus, if you continue to worry that you're going to end up used and abused, you might as well drop the idea of marriage entirely because your fear of making a mistake will always get in your way.

 

Let's just be really honest here. No relationship, and certainly no marriage, gets off scot-free. There will always be problems. Human beings are not perfect and they bring their lack of perfection right on into the most loving of unions. Where there is real love, however, there is also the willingness to make concessions, to compromise on things, and to make sacrifices for one another. So, for example, the Man From NO has a rough tongue at times ... he apparently works in some type of construction, and that's par for the course with construction workers -- it's predominantly a male trade. But if he loves you, he'll learn to curb his tongue around you and when he's with you, and save that stuff for the construction site. And you, Venus, if you love him, will let him know -- kindly but firmly -- what offends you and that you wish he'd not say.

 

Relationships and marriages are not static, nor are the people in them. There is change and growth just from being around one another, learning to make one another happy, learning how to fight fair, and so on. Learning to communicate is not a course one takes and then finishes with all the ins and outs in place -- it's an ongoing thing that requires attention and renewal.

 

I personally have my doubts that just spending two weeks or a month together is going to result in learning a whole lot. Both of you will still be on your best possible behavior, knowing it's a "test".

 

My husband and I met online but not through OLD. We met in a military chat room. I was in there because I wanted to learn more about a specific military unit, and he was in there because he'd been a member of that unit. We both were friends there with a number of other people, but he and I found common ground in his experiences with that unit and my knowledge of it. From that grew a personal friendship via emails that moved eventually on to phone calls, and at some point along the way we realized we'd fallen in love. He lived in a state that bordered mine. We finally met in person at a mid-way point and spent a day and night together. After that, we saw each other exactly 2 more times before he asked me to marry him and I packed up and moved to his location. We were married a couple of weeks later, and that was 21 years ago. We had not known each other yet a full year. We were in our mid-40's and both had children from previous marriage, so having babies was not on our particular radar.

 

We had our ups and downs, and we still do. But both of us have mellowed to one another very nicely overall. I had a much better family life growing up than he did, and I'm a voracious reader, so my vocabulary is better than his, but he's very intelligent and his smarts make up for things he didn't get in life that I got. Our strengths and weaknesses tend to balance out. When we have criticisms to make of one another, for the most part we both go out of our way to broach those subjects gently so as not to hurt one another's feelings, or we find a humorous approach that takes the sting out of what needs to be said.

 

Like the Man From NO, my husband can be overly boisterous at times in public (such as the grocery store), and that just makes me cringe and wish we were in separate aisles ... I have to remind him now and then that I'm not comfortable with attention being called to me-and-mine in public, I don't like people looking at me and it's not about whether or not I care about what they think, it's about how I FEEL. He gets it when I put it that way. You have to find the right words.

 

If I were in your shoes, Venus, and I knew I really loved this man for all the lovable things he is, I'd pack up and move to NO rather than run the risk of wondering forever. Yes, you have a place you love in CA ... but that's just a THING. If it doesn't work out at some point down the road, you can always move back to CA and find another place you love even if it takes a while.

 

As for whether it will work out for you and the Man From NO, the only way to find out is to live it. It could work out for 20 years and then something may come up from either one of you that puts an end to it. There is no way to know the future. The financial concerns you have are of course reasonable, but if you are there you will have a lot of influence to get any needed changes seen to, because you'll be working on them together.

 

All this worrying about how a future with him might go is a romance-killer of the first order. If the two of you truly love each other, you can make it work and that's about as plain as it can be. Don't get so wrapped up in the minutiae.

[venusishername]

Your ex's story is awful and I really think you should tell your BF so he doesn't wonder why you refuse moving in (telling him that it is not lack of interest towards him, but you have scars from the past and don't want to repeat your mistakes). Then he should respect your desire not to live in together, and no bring it anymore.

 

The ex-wife... On one side, it is affirming that he engaged to her soon after moving together (I assume that's the plan he had in mind with you). On the other side - I encourage you to learn more about the divorce. When was it? Who initiated? Why? Without knowing the details, I'd say such a short marriage (they knew each other for 5 years including being friends, dating and marriage, right?), and the shortness of time from divorce to initiating the relationship with you (Max an year if you know each other from an year and they divorced in <=2 years), are pink flags.... Maybe not, maybe red, it will depend on his explanation.

 

Also, do they have any legal ties? Alimony etc? This could give you more info about his readiness/desire/lack of desire to marry again...

I have told him some key parts of my last relationship, enough so he knows that I am strongly opposed to living together because it didn't work out for me before, and I had a very traumatic situation with my ex, abusive relationship, etc. It seems like no matter if I tell him I don't want to repeat the same mistakes, and am cautious, and he knows I am carrying some issues from the past, he still tries to let me know he still wants me there, and says his door is always open. I realize this is a different relationship than my last, I just am very mistrusting because of what happened to me before. I thought I knew someone, and thought he had good intentions. I dated him on a day to day basis and we knew each other very well. But then he turned out to be an abusive stalker and wasted years of my life, dating him and then years after I left him, when he was interfering with my moving on. **** that guy. I thought I forgave him but I guess I never did. I'm not sure I ever can. I see where the problem lies.

 

I don't know a whole lot about his divorce, except it was her idea, not his. He did everything he could to stay together, but from what he says, she just didn't want to be married anymore. From what he told me she picked up some old bad habits, like taking pills and drinking. He does not do drugs and hardly drinks, so he's very aware of people who do and I can see that it is a sticking point with him that he's taken from his past. He projects on to me sometimes about drinking, if I drink too much, or say "I need a drink". It sounds as if she wasn't responsible, flighty, and probably an eccentric free spirit like he is, but she was all over the place. I think he started to get upset that she seemed to get more and more wrapped up into her own life and was out all the time, etc. It really didn't sound like they were much of a team. He said they didn't even share a joint bank account. I don't know how you can live together let alone be married without some joint banking. It sounds like she failed to file her joint taxes and it got caught up to them. So that is something that is a legal tie. Not sure on all the details on that, but they are civil and he has mentioned that joint taxes thing. I don't know about alimony. Isn't alimony something that is kind of... voluntary? You don't HAVE to pay it, right? He's never mentioned alimony, so I have no clue.

From what I gather, it seems as if history were to repeat itself, yes, he would want us to live together because he is thinking possible marriage with me. I realize most people these days don't feel the way I do about living together before seeing if you are compatible enough to get married, where there are no guarantees anyway.

 

Oh dear oh dear Venus NOW I feel your pain! So you didn't meet online, you met him while on vacation and you did a big move for a past guy and things didn't work out. This really thickens the plot and I see your conundrum now.

Yeah, I thought I had mentioned it before, I guess I need to reiterate again. If I had not had that terrible experience before, I think I would be more open and ready, but I'll never know because it is what it is, and I am who I am now and can't undo the past.

That's a big leap of faith to go and give up everything for this man to try to see where it goes. I totally see your hesitation now. I commend you on your strength in persevering through though. After your last experience and given the complexity of your current situation you are quite the daredevil (I mean that in a very good way) good for you!

Thank you. When I left CA before to follow my ex across the ocean to live on his sailboat after one year of day in and day out dating, people said I was brave and adventurous. I was also 23 years old. Almost 10 years later, I hesitate to do something so risky, now I want to settle down. I don't want a life like I had back then. So I don't want to repeat the same behaviors that got me 10 years older, never married, no kids, single, living with a roommate, same as I was at 23, except more money, wiser, and a nicer place to live. Not much else has changed. I'm so disillusioned, I feel I have wasted so much time. I'm closer to where I would like to be than before, but when I look at the big picture, I wonder why I hadn't found the right person, while all my friends and family got married and have a family now. Why haven't I found that too? Is there something wrong with me? I left CA before because I was head over heels with my ex after our first year of dating. He left CA, I followed him. It was nice for about a month, then things started getting tough. Eventually I returned to CA, but I kind of vowed that I wouldn't do something like that again unless the guy was offering me something I couldn't refuse, like a real commitment. I think that's smart, not being overly cautious. I don't see why it's become so acceptable and almost taken as a requirement to marriage to live together. You are either all in or not, the way I see it.

 

I suppose the best option then is to wait it out for another year and continue to do the long distance thing and see where you can close the gap wherever possible in the next year.

I'm not sure I'm willing to do this for another year. That seems like way too long for neither person to make a move. Since I'm not fully comfortable to he's going to have to help me out and take some steps forward, or I'm not sure I am willing to put myself on hold for much longer. I am in limbo and I can't stay here for another year. Something needs to happen. I'm just chicken and I need him to make some steps forward. I really would like him to understand my position. I'm just not ready.

 

While I understand how bad past relationships can create mental/emotional hurdles and other cautions, the fact remains that THIS relationship is NOT any one of those past relationships. THIS current man has not done anything bad to Venus; on the contrary he's done nothing but good things to her and for her. Venus, if you continue to worry that you're going to end up used and abused, you might as well drop the idea of marriage entirely because your fear of making a mistake will always get in your way.

 

Let's just be really honest here. No relationship, and certainly no marriage, gets off scot-free. There will always be problems. Human beings are not perfect and they bring their lack of perfection right on into the most loving of unions. Where there is real love, however, there is also the willingness to make concessions, to compromise on things, and to make sacrifices for one another. So, for example, the Man From NO has a rough tongue at times ... he apparently works in some type of construction, and that's par for the course with construction workers -- it's predominantly a male trade. But if he loves you, he'll learn to curb his tongue around you and when he's with you, and save that stuff for the construction site. And you, Venus, if you love him, will let him know -- kindly but firmly -- what offends you and that you wish he'd not say.

 

Relationships and marriages are not static, nor are the people in them. There is change and growth just from being around one another, learning to make one another happy, learning how to fight fair, and so on. Learning to communicate is not a course one takes and then finishes with all the ins and outs in place -- it's an ongoing thing that requires attention and renewal.

 

I personally have my doubts that just spending two weeks or a month together is going to result in learning a whole lot. Both of you will still be on your best possible behavior, knowing it's a "test".

 

My husband and I met online but not through OLD. We met in a military chat room. I was in there because I wanted to learn more about a specific military unit, and he was in there because he'd been a member of that unit. We both were friends there with a number of other people, but he and I found common ground in his experiences with that unit and my knowledge of it. From that grew a personal friendship via emails that moved eventually on to phone calls, and at some point along the way we realized we'd fallen in love. He lived in a state that bordered mine. We finally met in person at a mid-way point and spent a day and night together. After that, we saw each other exactly 2 more times before he asked me to marry him and I packed up and moved to his location. We were married a couple of weeks later, and that was 21 years ago. We had not known each other yet a full year. We were in our mid-40's and both had children from previous marriage, so having babies was not on our particular radar.

 

We had our ups and downs, and we still do. But both of us have mellowed to one another very nicely overall. I had a much better family life growing up than he did, and I'm a voracious reader, so my vocabulary is better than his, but he's very intelligent and his smarts make up for things he didn't get in life that I got. Our strengths and weaknesses tend to balance out. When we have criticisms to make of one another, for the most part we both go out of our way to broach those subjects gently so as not to hurt one another's feelings, or we find a humorous approach that takes the sting out of what needs to be said.

 

Like the Man From NO, my husband can be overly boisterous at times in public (such as the grocery store), and that just makes me cringe and wish we were in separate aisles ... I have to remind him now and then that I'm not comfortable with attention being called to me-and-mine in public, I don't like people looking at me and it's not about whether or not I care about what they think, it's about how I FEEL. He gets it when I put it that way. You have to find the right words.

 

If I were in your shoes, Venus, and I knew I really loved this man for all the lovable things he is, I'd pack up and move to NO rather than run the risk of wondering forever. Yes, you have a place you love in CA ... but that's just a THING. If it doesn't work out at some point down the road, you can always move back to CA and find another place you love even if it takes a while.

 

As for whether it will work out for you and the Man From NO, the only way to find out is to live it. It could work out for 20 years and then something may come up from either one of you that puts an end to it. There is no way to know the future. The financial concerns you have are of course reasonable, but if you are there you will have a lot of influence to get any needed changes seen to, because you'll be working on them together.

 

All this worrying about how a future with him might go is a romance-killer of the first order. If the two of you truly love each other, you can make it work and that's about as plain as it can be. Don't get so wrapped up in the minutiae.

Thank you so much for sharing and for this thoughtful post. I'm going to re-read this a couple times. I know you are right. I don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes, that have kept me alone.

[No_Go]

Venus - I'm short on time tonight but I'm getting the picture from this post:

 

1) He was in a relationship with a woman with addictive tendencies - that is a great reason to insist on living together before marriage (I think the most legit one - e.g. I was fast tracking a relationship with a conman with severe alcoholism that he disguised before moving in....) - that can explain his behavior

 

2) Please insist to get more information is the divorce finalized (it varies by state but from what I've read it can take a while), did they resolved the tax issues and the alimony possibility (I'm not the best person to comment on that - someone more familiar with the law can be more informative but it is something you need to talk through)

 

3) Your reason not to move in because of your failed past relationship is a valid one - end the discussion about living together and focus on moving to the same city instead

 

4) Please be very very grateful that your ex didn't propose - yes he wasted your time but it would be soooooo much worse if he married you and pulled the same sh*t after being stuck with kids and home.... Just think of it and appreciate the time to get to know your current bf before proposal not after (things won't get better - just harder to break - if there is a reason for break)

 

 

I have told him some key parts of my last relationship, enough so he knows that I am strongly opposed to living together because it didn't work out for me before, and I had a very traumatic situation with my ex, abusive relationship, etc. It seems like no matter if I tell him I don't want to repeat the same mistakes, and am cautious, and he knows I am carrying some issues from the past, he still tries to let me know he still wants me there, and says his door is always open. I realize this is a different relationship than my last, I just am very mistrusting because of what happened to me before. I thought I knew someone, and thought he had good intentions. I dated him on a day to day basis and we knew each other very well. But then he turned out to be an abusive stalker and wasted years of my life, dating him and then years after I left him, when he was interfering with my moving on. **** that guy. I thought I forgave him but I guess I never did. I'm not sure I ever can. I see where the problem lies.

 

I don't know a whole lot about his divorce, except it was her idea, not his. He did everything he could to stay together, but from what he says, she just didn't want to be married anymore. From what he told me she picked up some old bad habits, like taking pills and drinking. He does not do drugs and hardly drinks, so he's very aware of people who do and I can see that it is a sticking point with him that he's taken from his past. He projects on to me sometimes about drinking, if I drink too much, or say "I need a drink". It sounds as if she wasn't responsible, flighty, and probably an eccentric free spirit like he is, but she was all over the place. I think he started to get upset that she seemed to get more and more wrapped up into her own life and was out all the time, etc. It really didn't sound like they were much of a team. He said they didn't even share a joint bank account. I don't know how you can live together let alone be married without some joint banking. It sounds like she failed to file her joint taxes and it got caught up to them. So that is something that is a legal tie. Not sure on all the details on that, but they are civil and he has mentioned that joint taxes thing. I don't know about alimony. Isn't alimony something that is kind of... voluntary? You don't HAVE to pay it, right? He's never mentioned alimony, so I have no clue.

From what I gather, it seems as if history were to repeat itself, yes, he would want us to live together because he is thinking possible marriage with me. I realize most people these days don't feel the way I do about living together before seeing if you are compatible enough to get married, where there are no guarantees anyway.

 

 

Yeah, I thought I had mentioned it before, I guess I need to reiterate again. If I had not had that terrible experience before, I think I would be more open and ready, but I'll never know because it is what it is, and I am who I am now and can't undo the past.

 

Thank you. When I left CA before to follow my ex across the ocean to live on his sailboat after one year of day in and day out dating, people said I was brave and adventurous. I was also 23 years old. Almost 10 years later, I hesitate to do something so risky, now I want to settle down. I don't want a life like I had back then. So I don't want to repeat the same behaviors that got me 10 years older, never married, no kids, single, living with a roommate, same as I was at 23, except more money, wiser, and a nicer place to live. Not much else has changed. I'm so disillusioned, I feel I have wasted so much time. I'm closer to where I would like to be than before, but when I look at the big picture, I wonder why I hadn't found the right person, while all my friends and family got married and have a family now. Why haven't I found that too? Is there something wrong with me? I left CA before because I was head over heels with my ex after our first year of dating. He left CA, I followed him. It was nice for about a month, then things started getting tough. Eventually I returned to CA, but I kind of vowed that I wouldn't do something like that again unless the guy was offering me something I couldn't refuse, like a real commitment. I think that's smart, not being overly cautious. I don't see why it's become so acceptable and almost taken as a requirement to marriage to live together. You are either all in or not, the way I see it.

 

 

I'm not sure I'm willing to do this for another year. That seems like way too long for neither person to make a move. Since I'm not fully comfortable to he's going to have to help me out and take some steps forward, or I'm not sure I am willing to put myself on hold for much longer. I am in limbo and I can't stay here for another year. Something needs to happen. I'm just chicken and I need him to make some steps forward. I really would like him to understand my position. I'm just not ready.

 

 

Thank you so much for sharing and for this thoughtful post. I'm going to re-read this a couple times. I know you are right. I don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes, that have kept me alone.

[clia]

All of the reasoning and discussion is totally valid. I get why Venus might be scared, I get why he might be scared, etc....

 

BUT.

 

It's been nearly a year.

 

In my opinion, it's nearing "poop or get off the pot" time.

 

You can't just continue potentially wasting time. There has to be some point where you two are in the same city. There has to be a serious discussion about making that happen. I know you two have talked about it, but has it been serious, not just "I'm looking to see if there is work" or "maybe" or "come and move into my house"...etc.?

 

I like the idea posed above that he comes to you during his slow time with work for a few weeks or months. The two of you work together to figure out the money situation during that time, since he won't have income coming in, unless he can find work in CA. You work together on this. That's what couples do who are planning a future together. The problem is that won't really show you how he is in his own environment, so maybe that's not enough. But something needs to happen.

 

I'm not trying to push things at all, but venus ,you want children and you want marriage. If you two can't close this distance sometime soon, you are wasting your time. You seem so unsure. To me, that's just not a good sign. One of you is going to have to take a risk. If both of you are unwilling to take that risk sometime in the next 6-12 (?) months, you might as well end things now and move on.

[BluEyeL]

I agree. Just probably can't predict what's going to happen in 6-12 months. Probably will decide then.

[introverted1]

I agree. Just probably can't predict what's going to happen in 6-12 months. Probably will decide then.

 

 

Are you Venus? :confused:

[venusishername]

All of the reasoning and discussion is totally valid. I get why Venus might be scared, I get why he might be scared, etc....

 

BUT.

 

It's been nearly a year.

 

In my opinion, it's nearing "poop or get off the pot" time.

 

You can't just continue potentially wasting time. There has to be some point where you two are in the same city. There has to be a serious discussion about making that happen. I know you two have talked about it, but has it been serious, not just "I'm looking to see if there is work" or "maybe" or "come and move into my house"...etc.?

 

I like the idea posed above that he comes to you during his slow time with work for a few weeks or months. The two of you work together to figure out the money situation during that time, since he won't have income coming in, unless he can find work in CA. You work together on this. That's what couples do who are planning a future together. The problem is that won't really show you how he is in his own environment, so maybe that's not enough. But something needs to happen.

 

I'm not trying to push things at all, but venus ,you want children and you want marriage. If you two can't close this distance sometime soon, you are wasting your time. You seem so unsure. To me, that's just not a good sign. One of you is going to have to take a risk. If both of you are unwilling to take that risk sometime in the next 6-12 (?) months, you might as well end things now and move on.

I couldn't agree with you more, Clia. I am nearing the end of my 'trial' period here. I told myself I would see how the first year went, surprisingly we made it this long. I didn't want to get ahead of myself planning ahead too much, but now I realize this can't continue long distance.

Nothing more has been actually DONE other than TALK about kind of looking for work in each others' cities, and his standing offer to move in. All along he has been talking about getting out here but for some reason he doesn't do it. He seems to be making excuses to me, saying that he has to stay there because he has more work there, but then complains when he has downtime too and complains about waiting on his work. Then he tells me that he sees good opportunities in CA, and says it could be possible in the next couple months, but my point is... he's been saying this since we met. He hasn't done anything to move things forward on his end except talk about it.

In comparison, I never really talked much about moving there until he mentioned me moving in. It wasn't my idea to move there, I thought since day one that he would be interested in moving to CA. He still talks about it but I haven't seen any real action other than just looking. Which is just about as much as I've done in his city.

 

I do want to get married and have a family, but unfortunately that's not guaranteed if I start dating someone in my own city either. You can't know if that will work out. I am kind of giving up on the dream, so to speak. I don't know how you can ensure that will happen, even if you want it. I've had three long term boyfriends as an adult. Two of those relationships resulted in serious discussions about marriage and I did have a proposal with my first bf, which I didn't accept. I'm not sure how to go about getting this, guys. But I see that being in a LDR is not going to get me there.

I thought the Long distance wouldn't be permanent. I'm starting to lose hope in this relationship. It's not his fault, it's no ones' fault. I am not ready to move there, not ready to move in with him, too chicken, whatever. He's not ready to move here, and not ready to propose. I think we need to see each other in a week and a half and reconnect, and discuss these things in real detail. He keeps telling me not to worry so much, but I don't think he realizes that I am considering ending it if we can't figure out a way to close the distance that will work for both of us.

I agree 100% that yes, we need to just live in the same city and date then, that would be great. I know he wants me to do that in his city so he doesn't have to move. I agree he has more ties than I do, but I hesitate to leave CA again for a man that I have barely spent enough day to day time with, and whose financial stability is a big question mark to me. It worries me greatly that he does not have a predictable income and is not good with managing money. Regardless of whether we can work as a team to make that better together, that is still a very big concern for me. It makes me question whether he is good husband and father material.

He may check off all the other boxes, but those are pretty important boxes. Again, I am only seeing that at a distance, if I were to live in the same city, I would learn much more.

 

My stepfather always told me within 2 years, it's time to poop or get off the pot. I wish I had listened to him before. He and every man I know tells me to not live with a boyfriend again until he proposes and we have a wedding date. I am standing firm on that one, because I wasted too much time already on bad boyfriends. I think after our next visit, I will be clear on what I need to do, and we can either make plans or not. I know he thinks that if I am not going to move there, then the best he can do is make plans for another vacation here, so we can see each other. I'm done with the vacations, and very frustrated that he keeps talking about vacations. I feel like he gets caught up in the fantasy sometimes, and the fantasy is over for me now. I don't feel that excitement of fantasy, longing, and new-ness anymore. I think that's why I've been so negative. I still love him and want to be with him, but I don't feel the way I used to about the butterflies and excitement about the Longing and long distance fantasy. I'm over it.

I don't know how to move forward, if I'm not ready. I need him to want to take the first steps, more than just talk about it.

[BluEyeL]

 

Are you Venus? :confused:

 

Nope. Just saying. I don't think it's at the cut your losses or let's drop everything and move. And I feel 6 months to 1 year would be when it will be time to sh*t or get off the pot. Probably more like 6 months than 1 year.

[sc0316]

The thing is, neither one of them is willing to make a real move forward. It's hard to see continuing another 6-12 months of this limbo state is going to make things more certain.

 

I do think some of the doubts expressed by Venus are valid. BUT, it appears that everything would become fine for her—including moving in with her boyfriend (or at least moving to New Orleans to be with him)—as long as he proposes to marry her.

[lana-banana]

Nothing more has been actually DONE other than TALK about kind of looking for work in each others' cities, and his standing offer to move in. All along he has been talking about getting out here but for some reason he doesn't do it. He seems to be making excuses to me, saying that he has to stay there because he has more work there, but then complains when he has downtime too and complains about waiting on his work. Then he tells me that he sees good opportunities in CA, and says it could be possible in the next couple months, but my point is... he's been saying this since we met. He hasn't done anything to move things forward on his end except talk about it...

 

This seems like it could be worrisome, but not as big a deal as it could be. More on that below.

 

I do want to get married and have a family, but unfortunately that's not guaranteed if I start dating someone in my own city either. You can't know if that will work out. I am kind of giving up on the dream, so to speak. I don't know how you can ensure that will happen, even if you want it. I've had three long term boyfriends as an adult. Two of those relationships resulted in serious discussions about marriage and I did have a proposal with my first bf, which I didn't accept. I'm not sure how to go about getting this, guys. But I see that being in a LDR is not going to get me there.

 

This is so off-putting to read---"a proposal", "how to go about getting this". It just sounds like you care more about the proposal than it actually coming from him. But that's just my opinion. The even bigger issue is the boldface text. How can you describe your love life as "giving up on the dream" and feel even remotely good about it? That might be the biggest red flag of anything here.

 

I don't know how to move forward, if I'm not ready. I need him to want to take the first steps, more than just talk about it.

 

Errrrgh, Venus, if you aren't ready then you shouldn't move forward, period. It sounds like you need him to do something before you will be ready, which is a frustrating interdependency; either you're ready to move forward or not.

 

Have you considered he might not be looking in California because he thinks you're coming to New Orleans? If you guys are serious about a future together you need to agree upon who is moving where. That will cut out at least half the uncertainty in this process. But don't go into it hoping to persuade him to move to California. The answer needs to be a logical and financially sound compromise that makes sense for both of you.

[No_Go]

Less longing and excitement can be a good thing - just your relationship is reaching the end of the honeymoon period and is getting real.

 

Now, I don't understand the proposal logic at all - seems like the biggest regret even with the crazy ex is the lack of proposal - I don't even want to think of what kind of a mess this crazy ex would create if he proposed... If you think he's incompatible, you should not be excited from a proposal.

 

In any case - just figure out how to move to the same city within the next 6 months or so (doesn't matter who does the first steps towards this common goal). I'm standing behind my advice for extra info regarding the divorce conditions but that's up to you.

[Leigh 87]

Venus will have no problem shiftin g her life and dropping everything to be with the right man.

 

We all know she would do this for the big love she wants.

 

The trouble is - the big love feeling is laced with incompatabilities.

 

It is too soon to tell but in the end, venus WILL absolutely have no aversion to packing it all up and moving for the right man.

 

It is clear to everyone from her writings (1000s of pages of it, no less), that she will go after what she wants.

 

And 1 year is not enough time to know if the "feelings", which they are NOT surely lacking, can be balanced out with a healthy enough dose of compatability.

 

Nothing really much here that is groundbreaking; nor is there any need to make a final decision just yet...

 

Although after 2 to 3 years of living together is when most couples figure out whether they have a shot at making it or not; the honeymoon dissipates a little or entirely for some, and you start to see if the overall compatability can compensate for the lack of constantly high feelings.

 

So while it is not CRITICAL to act NOW, she cannot exactly afford to wait longer than a few more months either interms of re locating.

 

My bf relocated for me and has not looked back - despite the fact it didn't work out, he is in a better location, loves his job.... re locating is not the be all or end all.

 

I know plenty of people who have relocated for a partner, have not worked out with this said partner and then gone on to REMAIN in their new area and loved it!

 

Gosh live a little I say, at least give it a TRY. I would! What is the wrst that can happen? Venus has no mortgage, a degree and loads of experience in her field so she will not be starved of options whatever happens.

 

I could understand if she had a DREAM job earning the big dollars, and she was super lucky to land a specfic role that she would NEVER GET AGAIN unless she gained another ten years experience WHERE SHE IS NOW. However, something tells met hat Venus will not drastically (if at all) negatively impact her career through moving.

 

Moving however, is a hassel and time and money do need to be invested. is this guy wrth just giving it a shot for?

 

And honestly, I do not approve of engagements within 1 year. You don't even know the person properly by then in most cases!

 

You refuse to move without engagement; yet you wilL NEVER get to paint a clear and accurate picture of your relationship potential if yoU DO NOT move soon.

 

Sollution? Move, get a flat of your own there, and have a REAL relationship where you are together daily and the lusty months apart and sense of longing just to see each other will subside, and the REAL relationship can start!

[sc0316]

Venus: If you marry a guy with your EXACT same financial situation, do you think the two of you can afford the lifestyle you want (including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.)? Do you think he can afford to pay for the majority of your dating expenses while you are dating? Do you think you would judge harshly his financial situation because his savings are close to zero (from what described, you didn't start saving until very recently)?

 

The focus of this thread has already shifted to a more general direction, but I thought I'd clarify my previous questions (since Venus didn't seem to understand what I was getting at; my apologies for not being articulate).

 

The above 3 questions are ALL under the assumption that the guy being considered has your EXACT SAME financial situation. Imagine that your guy is the male version of Venus (let's call him Venus M), in terms of financial situation. So now you want him to propose to you so that you can get married soon and have a baby within the next year or two. Do you think he would be financially sound to provide you with the lifestyle you want, including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.? Bear in mind that Venus M barely has any savings, and can only afford to share an apartment (albeit a nice one) with a roommate currently.

 

Second, while you are dating, do you think Venus M can afford to pay for

most of your dating expenses?

 

Finally, would you judge harshly Venus M's financial situation like you have done with your actual current boyfriend?

 

Why are these questions worth pondering? Because if you're honest with yourself, you'll see that two copies of Venus (in terms of financial situation) is not enough to support the lifestyle you want. In other words, from what you've written on here, some of us can sense that you actually expect your boyfriend/husband to bear most of the financial burden. Maybe you're not even aware of this.

[venusishername]

The thing is, neither one of them is willing to make a real move forward. It's hard to see continuing another 6-12 months of this limbo state is going to make things more certain.

 

I do think some of the doubts expressed by Venus are valid. BUT, it appears that everything would become fine for her—including moving in with her boyfriend (or at least moving to New Orleans to be with him)—as long as he proposes to marry her.

If he proposes, I would feel more COMFORTABLE making a huge move across the country, leaving my job and home behind, my stability, because he would be offering a real commitment instead of a 'let's see how this goes' kind of thing. A marriage proposal is a lot more commitment than just dating. Things would not become "fine". But I think they would make me feel more comfortable with knowing anything that would come up would be approached as "we're in this together, we are committed to making this work, we are really serious about a future together". Things wouldn't be "fine". But I need more of a commitment to feel comfortable about uprooting my life.

 

I don't feel at this point, today, that either one of us are ready and/or willing to pack up and leave our homes behind, temporarily or not. I can't continue this way for 6-12 more months, I'm thinking more like the end of the year is what I am capable of.

 

Venus will have no problem shiftin g her life and dropping everything to be with the right man.

 

It is too soon to tell but in the end, venus WILL absolutely have no aversion to packing it all up and moving for the right man.

Sollution? Move, get a flat of your own there, and have a REAL relationship where you are together daily and the lusty months apart and sense of longing just to see each other will subside, and the REAL relationship can start!

Leigh, thanks for your post but I moved before for what I felt was the "right" man and he was soooooo the wrong man. That's why I hesitate so much, especially when I already have so many doubts.

You are right in that we need to live in the same city soon, if this relationship is to continue.

The focus of this thread has already shifted to a more general direction, but I thought I'd clarify my previous questions (since Venus didn't seem to understand what I was getting at; my apologies for not being articulate).

 

The above 3 questions are ALL under the assumption that the guy being considered has your EXACT SAME financial situation. Imagine that your guy is the male version of Venus (let's call him Venus M), in terms of financial situation. So now you want him to propose to you so that you can get married soon and have a baby within the next year or two. Do you think he would be financially sound to provide you with the lifestyle you want, including, possibly, childcare, saving for a house, etc.? Bear in mind that Venus M barely has any savings, and can only afford to share an apartment (albeit a nice one) with a roommate currently.

 

Second, while you are dating, do you think Venus M can afford to pay for

most of your dating expenses?

 

Finally, would you judge harshly Venus M's financial situation like you have done with your actual current boyfriend?

 

Why are these questions worth pondering? Because if you're honest with yourself, you'll see that two copies of Venus (in terms of financial situation) is not enough to support the lifestyle you want. In other words, from what you've written on here, some of us can sense that you actually expect your boyfriend/husband to bear most of the financial burden. Maybe you're not even aware of this.

 

I would rather stay on the current track. I believe I have already answered your question earlier. My answer is YES, with planning and appropriate budgeting. I don't know that the current "VENUS M" is in the "EXACT" financial situation as I am, being that he has little to no savings to my knowledge, and does not have a consistent income. I don't make as much money as some people here, but I can afford to live on my own, I choose not to because the cost of living on the beach is very high here, I also am paying off loan and saving, and am able to spend freely. I sacrificed living alone to be able to use my money elsewhere.

[venusishername]

This is so off-putting to read---"a proposal", "how to go about getting this". It just sounds like you care more about the proposal than it actually coming from him. But that's just my opinion. The even bigger issue is the boldface text. How can you describe your love life as "giving up on the dream" and feel even remotely good about it? That might be the biggest red flag of anything here.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't feel that having a goal of marriage and family is wrong, a red flag, etc. Marriage is a goal that many people have. People don't get married for love only, there are many many other reasons in addition to love that people want to get married. I DO care about finding the right person to get married and have a family. I think he has a lot of the core values and character to fit that bill. I don't feel I should need to explain myself anymore that I want to get married and have a family. The point of dating for me now is to evaluate whether a boyfriend would also be a good husband and father. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

I guess you misunderstood what I meant, I was being facetious about "giving up on the dream". The dream meaning having a marriage and family. It seems that I have no trouble dating and having some boyfriends, but so far none of them have resulted in marriage and a happy ending. I was saying that out of frustration, that I haven't been able to achieve that goal yet. Marriage is just as much a goal as anything else, like graduating college, or saving money for a house. I hope that clarifies.