When it rains it pours

September 22, 2016

Some thoughts:

1) If having kids is an absolute must for you, you need to ask what it's going to take for him to be financially comfortable. I completely understand his desire to be in a better place with his savings, but it would be too easy for him to keep pushing the goalposts indefinitely. Whether it's a set number, like having X in the bank or having paid off Y debt, you should have something concrete.

2) Hard numbers: current bank account figures, how much debt/how many loans he has, how much if any is delinquent, what his credit score is. Be prepared to share yours. This isn't adversarial; if you're going to spend the rest of your life with this man, this should all be on the table.

3) The alcohol thing. That would be a major incompatibility for me. The man and I kill a bottle of wine or enjoy a cocktail together about twice a week, always with dinner, and we love to visit wineries and distilleries. (Napa was so awesome! It was his first time, too!) I honestly think it's better to show his daughter what responsible drinking looks like---a glass or two with meals, enjoyed in moderation with plenty of water---rather than let her first exposure be at college surrounded by drunkards with coolers of jungle juice. But that's none of my business. The bigger issue here is whether you feel like he judges you for enjoying alcohol. Is he okay with you going out for an occasional girls' night?

September 22, 2016

And some thoughts on this thoughts (topic is close to me so I'm thinking personal):

1) Great idea - considering that kids will be post-marriage the 2 partnes shall calculate if the X figure is there freom their joined savings+income

2) I'm still convinced this should come post-engagement - except credit score, debt figure and rough annual income. However - it is crucial to check the laws and if the finances are co-mingling after marriage, consider the total you're starting with post-engagement/pre-marriage and if the discrepancy is big - consider pre-nup (my 30 s check: in both CA and LA all money acquired after marriage are common, except inheritance)

3) This differs so much person-to-person - e.g. I'm greatly upset with alcohol consumption and more than 2 drinks per outing for me is a hard-set deal breaker. These are things that should be stated upfront IMO in the first 1-2 months of a relationship instead of asking for change later.

Some thoughts:

1) If having kids is an absolute must for you, you need to ask what it's going to take for him to be financially comfortable. I completely understand his desire to be in a better place with his savings, but it would be too easy for him to keep pushing the goalposts indefinitely. Whether it's a set number, like having X in the bank or having paid off Y debt, you should have something concrete.

2) Hard numbers: current bank account figures, how much debt/how many loans he has, how much if any is delinquent, what his credit score is. Be prepared to share yours. This isn't adversarial; if you're going to spend the rest of your life with this man, this should all be on the table.

3) The alcohol thing. That would be a major incompatibility for me. The man and I kill a bottle of wine or enjoy a cocktail together about twice a week, always with dinner, and we love to visit wineries and distilleries. (Napa was so awesome! It was his first time, too!) I honestly think it's better to show his daughter what responsible drinking looks like---a glass or two with meals, enjoyed in moderation with plenty of water---rather than let her first exposure be at college surrounded by drunkards with coolers of jungle juice. But that's none of my business. The bigger issue here is whether you feel like he judges you for enjoying alcohol. Is he okay with you going out for an occasional girls' night?

September 22, 2016

I have been with my boyfriend for almost 9 months now and we are having serious "future talks" (we are mid to late 30s, so are maybe moving a little faster than younger couples).

Anyway, we have talked really honestly about things in the past but I ordered a book called "1001 questions to ask before getting married" and it has made our conversations even more honest and deep. Some of the questions are kind of silly, but some really get you thinking (and go beyond anything I would think of asking myself). My boyfriend kind of rolled his eyes at it initially, but now we have started on it, I think he's appreciating the conversations we have had as a result!

https://www.amazon.com/1001-Questions-Ask-Before-Married/dp/0071438033

September 22, 2016

Some thoughts:

1) If having kids is an absolute must for you, you need to ask what it's going to take for him to be financially comfortable. I completely understand his desire to be in a better place with his savings, but it would be too easy for him to keep pushing the goalposts indefinitely. Whether it's a set number, like having X in the bank or having paid off Y debt, you should have something concrete.

2) Hard numbers: current bank account figures, how much debt/how many loans he has, how much if any is delinquent, what his credit score is. Be prepared to share yours. This isn't adversarial; if you're going to spend the rest of your life with this man, this should all be on the table.

3) The alcohol thing. That would be a major incompatibility for me. The man and I kill a bottle of wine or enjoy a cocktail together about twice a week, always with dinner, and we love to visit wineries and distilleries. (Napa was so awesome! It was his first time, too!) I honestly think it's better to show his daughter what responsible drinking looks like---a glass or two with meals, enjoyed in moderation with plenty of water---rather than let her first exposure be at college surrounded by drunkards with coolers of jungle juice. But that's none of my business. The bigger issue here is whether you feel like he judges you for enjoying alcohol. Is he okay with you going out for an occasional girls' night?

I have asked him what it will take exactly for him to feel more comfortable. I don't think it can be narrowed down to a number. We need to talk about this more.

The money talk: for some reason I have an emotionally loaded relationship with money and the man I'm dating, because I had a very negative experience with my last boyfriend. My biggest concern is that I hitch myself to a guy who turns out to be a deadbeat loser. I know these are harsh terms, but my ex was incredibly intelligent, but was entitled and felt better than most jobs and depended on his millionaire mother for money, and even started asking me to borrow at the end of our relationship. Ain't never happening again! So it's a fear for me. Now- I have to bite the bullet and have this chat with him because I need to know as much as possible.

He kind of chides me if I drink too much, etc. But no, he would NEVER not be ok with me going out for a girls' night. He's never controlling. He just doesn't like drinking to excess. More than two drinks to him is excess.

I agree with you about the daughter influence and alcohol, I said exactly what you did to him when I was there about having a glass of wine while I was cooking.

I have been with my boyfriend for almost 9 months now and we are having serious "future talks" (we are mid to late 30s, so are maybe moving a little faster than younger couples).

Anyway, we have talked really honestly about things in the past but I ordered a book called "1001 questions to ask before getting married" and it has made our conversations even more honest and deep. Some of the questions are kind of silly, but some really get you thinking (and go beyond anything I would think of asking myself). My boyfriend kind of rolled his eyes at it initially, but now we have started on it, I think he's appreciating the conversations we have had as a result!

https://www.amazon.com/1001-Questions-Ask-Before-Married/dp/0071438033

I think I'm going to buy this book! Thanks!

September 25, 2016

I ordered the book and I sent a couple resumes today! I figured it doesn't hurt to apply, maybe I'll get a response and then I can figure out what to do from there. I told my bf and he was so happy that he offered to fly me out if I get called for an interview. I wouldn't be ready to move there within a month, but at least I could get my feelers out and see what response I get. It would be fantastic to have a job nailed down before I move there, but I know that isn't too likely. I need to work on saving before I make a move across the country anyway, that's not happening in the next month though, I just thought I would be proactive about looking into work there. Especially after seeing him so excited about it.

I realized after our last time together that I do really want to make this work and give it a fair shot. That means we need to make concrete plans to live in the same city. Yes, it would be easier for me to move in with him, (some of my friends think it's silly to move all the way there and get my own place, like he does), but it's just something I'd rather do It's an independence thing. Probably some pride too. So if I can get my resume out, and at least talk to people there in the field who can hopefully give me some guidance, I'd be in a better position than going there with no leads at all. If anything I can talk to a headhunter who can help place me in a position. That would be great. And if the bf is offering to fly me out there for interviews.. I could be going back as soon as Columbus Day weekend! I have almost all holidays paid vacation, so I could get away for a long weekend again.

As far as asking the questions to determine whether we are really compatible in the long term... I told him we need to have this discussion and I've been thinking more about the future, and I know he has too. I know that we both have questions for each other, and when I told him I was thinking about all these things, he was happy to discuss with me. It's hard to find a right time to do over the phone or long distance, just because we are busy, work schedules, time difference, etc. Obviously it would be much easier to do in person. But I brought it up, and told him these are all things I need to know before making any big decisions. I just prefaced the actual conversation with him, I think once I get the book it will make it easier to discuss, even if just over the phone.

I feel in less than a year's time we have built the foundation upon which we can really build a really great relationship. We already have one. People have commented that we look so happy together, and that we just exude love in our photos that we post on FB and when we are together. I watched a cheesy romantic comedy last night where the man did all these sweet gestures for her, and it reminded me of my boyfriend. He is very adoring and would do anything for me I can tell, or at least try his very hardest to make sure I am happy. He's already done so much. I've struggled with a lot of fears, a lot from my past and bad relationships, but I can see the difference in myself since then as well as the difference in qualities of the man I'm with. I can't project my past mistakes onto this relationship. Ultimately I know that whatever happens, I will be just fine. As long as I can take care of myself, and am independent even with him, I will be fine. And I think that has been a great part of being in an LDR for me, I know that I can hold my own, and be the strongest version of myself in any relationship.

It seems like after this last visit, we are even more in love, and I really do think things just 'clicked' (for me at least) this last time. I could picture myself marrying him. Yes, he has faults, but he seems very willing to work on things that may cause me concern. He always asks my opinion on things, lately even about his kids, and he really is the most caring, loving man I have ever been with. Like my friend says, he really adores me, it is evident. That is something every woman wants, you want to end up with the guy who adores you and puts you up on a pedestal!

I just wanted to take a small step forward and send some resumes, just to take an action towards being with him. The long distance is no longer serving us. I think in the beginning he felt it was really romantic with all the longing, etc. and I did feel that too. But after all this time we've spent, and communicating every day, we both realized it's time to close the distance. I do think that marriage is very possible, and I already know that he's thinking about proposing. I don't know when, or for 100% sure, but it really seems to be heading in that direction. Just an intuition.. not necessarily something I can fully predict or bet money on, it's just a feeling. That's why I ordered the book, hopefully it will be here soon and we can ask each other those questions. I think, probably, if all goes well and continues, it would be likely that I move out there and get my own place within the next 6 months, probably after the first of the year. And yes, I would be ok with moving there, getting my own place, dating in the same city, and then setting a timeframe that is realistic in which to expect a real commitment, once we are both sure that it is what we want.

He has been very busy with work, so his time is tied up and he can't plan ahead for vacation here other than Christmas but we will for sure be seeing each other before then. I'm thinking early November is looking good. Or I could get out there again this October, like last year...I'm not really an 'anniversary' person in a relationship but would be nice to see him for our "first anniversary". We worked hard to make this work long distance. He thinks that if we can get through that, we can get through a lot! And he has a point.

Anyway, I'm feeling good about all of this.

October 1, 2016

We made it one year. I for one, never saw any of this coming, that's for sure. When we met last October, I thought, "there is no way this could possibly go anywhere. We live across the country." I did not believe that it would progress like this. Each month that went by, I started believing in it more, in him more, I could see that the relationship was developing and progressing. So now we are at another turning point, now that he has it in his mind that I must be with him there, that is what he wants. And I have been making steps so that I could be more comfortable leaving CA again, moving across the country, finding a job there, finding a place to live. It is feasible. Last week I sent a couple resumes out to jobs there I found online. I got three responses, each asked me when I would be in New Orleans. Once they found out I was not there and did not have a firm date, they dropped the ball. I realize that landing a job may not be possible unless I have a firm date that I can start and/or I am already there, available to interview immediately, etc. I discussed that with the bf and he thought it was a good idea to at least get the word out, now I know that I could get responses and there would be opportunities for me if I was there. He's right. I think it made me feel more confident to know that I wouldn't be going there into no job market. Knowing myself though, I would not be without a job for long. I just want to find a good job with a good pay, comparable to what I make now, with full benefits like I have now. That may take some time, but now I know there are opportunities for me there.

I also have looked into short term rentals/furnished rooms. They are a good price, much less than what I pay now for a shared condo. I don't see it would be any problem for me to find a room for rent or a month to month one bedroom apartment. Maybe difficult with no job lined up, but I know a lot of people go to New Orleans and the city seems amenable to renting to transplants. My bf finds it silly and foolish that I would pay that money to live in my own place when I can live with him for free (not free, I'd be contributing to food costs and cooking most of the week). He tells me there's no deposit, he even offered my own room (ha!).. he just really is all about us living together first.

He even wrote me a letter and stuck it in the mail. I appreciated that thoughtful and romantic gesture. But his last sentence made me feel a bit sad... because I realize that we just don't see eye to eye about living together. He said something like, "after we have been talking about all these things lately, I feel strongly that we should live together first." "First" meaning before committing to marriage. I do see his point, I really do. I can't change that. He also knows how I feel, and I feel just as strongly about NOT living together before we are sure that we are ready and want to marry, and have concrete plans (not just talk) to do that. We have to "agree to disagree" as he puts it. We don't agree on this, but I think he conceded to the idea that of course it would be better if I was there closer to him, he would support my decision if I moved all the way there and got my own place. We left it at me saying, "don't you agree that it would be at least a good start... if I moved there and got my own place first?" And he agreed. I told him we still need some time to get to know each other more and feel ready to make a big move like that. I take living together very seriously. Apparently so does he, because he has never lived with another woman except his ex-wife. I was surprised when I found that out when we started this discussion several months ago. He told me they were dating, they had been friends for awhile before dating, he asked her to move in, and within a couple months he proposed. He told me last night that "of course" it would be his intention that we would get married if we were to live together. I mean, in his mind, maybe that is true. But in my experience, talk is cheap. I assumed that living with my ex bf would lead to marriage, but we never had that serious discussion before living together either. I'm still standing firm on this one. I know it would be a hell of a lot easier for me to move there and stay with him so I wouldn't have to worry so much about money. But that's not my concern! I told him that moving in for financial reasons is not a good enough reason for me. I don't need financial help. I am perfectly capable of making my own money and I would feel more comfortable having my own space, if we were just dating. He asked me, "would you live with me if we eloped?" I said, of course I would live with you if we were married. But we need to make sure that we both want to do that before jumping into living together, if we aren't sure. I see his point, you can learn a lot about a person by living together, but I feel (and told him) that we need to be in a place where we are willing to take that leap, despite some unanswered questions, and be ready to commit to going all in on it. I'm just not willing to play house anymore. He says we are beating a dead horse, so last night, I hope we finally put it to bed that although I see his point of view, and appreciate his offer, I will not live with him unless we are sure that we want to get married.

The other day I sent a long text after a sleepless night. Lissvarna, I asked him (more or less) what you suggested. I said: "I don't think I can move there if you aren't willing to meet me halfway in effort. I hesitate because I'm not sure you just want to live together or you actually want to plan seriously for a future with me. If you don't know for sure I don't feel it's right that you just wait for me to move there and you haven't contributed to saving money with me for that move. If you want me to be with you- I need some action on your part too. I guess I have to ask you now that we are talking seriously- what do you want from me?" (I felt that was a ballsy thing to say, maybe I came across as harsh), but it's true, that's what is holding me back. He said that he has been thinking about all this lately often. He didn't come right out and say anything specifically. However it was the middle of the day and he was very busy and distracted with work, so I let it drop. I said my peace. So he called later on the way home from work. He had a long drive home so he had plenty of time to talk. I can see that he's getting frustrated with this. He wonders what is keeping me from coming there, he's waiting for me to come, he's offered me to move in with him and I won't accept, he's even asking me about have I followed up with the people who did reply to me about the jobs, he asked what is the name of the firms, so he can research and maybe talk to some people, he's really trying to get me there. He's on a mission. He asked me when I thought I might be ready to come, he thinks that if I were to move there and particularly if I live with him, I could save some money to put towards a new car, because he thinks I need one soon, and he's right. It's not at the top of my list, but it is for sure something I need to plan for in the near future. Especially if I were to drive out there. He asked my plans for what I would do about my car. It was a good thing to talk about. I would sell mine here and buy another, or sell mine here, fly there, and take that money and buy another over there. I do need a car there. I couldn't leave mine here. So he's talking as if these things are actually happening, or will happen. He asked me point blank, "so when do you think you will be ready to come here?" and I said, realistically... I just signed on a year lease (today). That is breakable, however, I just don't want to skip out now, and the holidays are coming up, how about we think about maybe after the first of the year? And he thought that was a good plan. That is not set in stone, but he knows now that I'm not ready to move this month, next month, but it still needs some time. I think we both need to be very sure, as sure as possible, to do this. He stays there and changes nothing about his life, all he would eventually have to do, or is already offering to do, is clear a closet and figure out how we can fit my furniture in his house, and where the best place for my cat's litterbox will be (he already has thought of a good place!) He already is thinking about how my life will fit into his life. I thought that was so sweet that he would decide where he thought the best place to put my cat's litterbox. And I agree, that it is a perfect place so she can also go outside to play during the day.

I told him that this is good, at least in the meantime we still have some time to get to know each other more and to let things progress. It is good to have a plan, and I think we are getting closer. Much closer. Several months ago we were nowhere near talking this seriously about moving in together, let alone living in the same city. For the first half of our relationship it was mainly the romance and excitement of getting to know each other and flying back and forth to visit. After that went so well and things have progressed, he got it in his mind that he wanted us to live together. Now he's accepted that won't happen yet but at this point seems satisfied and anxious for me to get out there at all. By the way, he offered to pay for my ticket to go out there so I can be available for interviews. I may not be able to start that week, but I could go in person, maybe I'd get an offer, then I could base my decision around that. In the worst case scenario I'd at least have made some connections in the field for the future. I said I would accept that offer, so now we are talking about the first week of November. He seems busy and distracted lately with work and family stuff, so he said he would get back to me about that next week and we would shoot for early November. In any case he will be planning to come to CA with his son to see the family here for Christmas and New Year, so he would be here again for the holidays, like he did last year.

So for the time being, we are planning our next visit, one where I could go on some interviews maybe, and then he is planning his Christmas trip to be here no matter what. So I feel good about that.

Now- my question to him about 'what do you want from me?' is something I've been wondering awhile. It is a fair question to ask at this point. He asked me a couple months ago, "would you want to marry me?" He has made several comments about a wedding, eloping, we have talked about rings, he has voiced his opinion about not wanting a big wedding this time, he asked me about my dad's jewelry connections, he made a comment the other day about how he got ANOTHER wedding invitation, everyone is getting married, now we just have to figure out when WE are getting married, "I think you would make a good wife", etc. I mean, he would be a really manipulative jerk if he was talking out of his ass about all this. I would like to think that he would not be saying any of those things unless he was seriously considering it. It's in my nature to mistrust (past relationship baggage) so I don't trust as much as I should. I see no reason that he would say those things to appease me and is not being sincere.

In response to my question, he says he has been thinking on it a lot lately. And if we were to move in together, of course it would be with the intention to get married. I realize this is no guarantee, and engagements can be broken, and people get divorced. There are no guarantees. He's not coming right out and saying, "will you marry me?" or "yes, I want to marry you".

Maybe this is just something that needs to run its due course. It's been a little less than a year, and long distance at that. And if and when we are sure, and ready, we will make the leap. I do know that I don't want to continue long distance for much longer. It's not what I want or what makes me happy. So I do have a choice here, to be together. I can go there much easier than it is for him to leave his kids, house, and work connections behind. Sure, he could move here. But I just don't see him living here. He's settled in New Orleans. Of course if we got married he would come back with me to visit, he talks about that a lot, actually. We would visit. And I know some of my family and many of my friends would visit me if I lived there. I can visualize myself living there. I try to imagine what it would be like living with him, and being his wife. I can picture it.

So, I broke out the book I ordered, thank you so much for that suggestion!! Guess what? We went through the first section together last night, it was a great exercise. I skimmed through the rest of the book that we haven't got to yet, and there are some tough subjects. Like kids, raising kids, money, family, lifestyle, etc. These are ALL questions that I feel we should be discussing and getting to know each other... BEFORE moving in, before getting married (well that's the premise of the book!)

The purpose is to go through each 'section' so it fosters discussion and teaches you how to resolve many issues by communication.

This first section was mainly about our childhood, parents, and relationships with others as we were growing up. I feel we learned some new things about each other. I thought it was wonderful to do that together. I learned that he comes from a good, solid family and had great parental role models. He struggled in school with ADD and had tutoring to help him stay focused in elementary school, he had some issues with rebelling in high school, etc. I told him about my parents' divorce, and the surrounding issues with that, I told him about the deaths in my family that affected me. He told me about his mom's death when he was a young man. I shared with him some struggles I had in high school with rebelling, experimenting with drugs and described my ongoing issues with anxiety and going to therapy. I enjoyed doing that with him. He said to me recently that he would always be open to counseling because he wouldn't want anything to jeopardize our relationship. He says I'm the best girlfriend he ever had. So those things show me that he is committed to this. The fact that he's willing to do that, and to take the time to go through a book, most men wouldn't have the patience for that, I feel. He really puts in the effort to this relationship. Even at the end of a long day, if he says he will call, or call back, he does, and if he's exhausted, he at least says good night, he's been doing this for a year. He's been consistent, and this relationship has been progressing since day one.

We ended our little exercise last night with him saying that he is glad that we are progressing. And we are. I think this time around I have been taking this relationship at a much slower pace than all the others. And for him too. That doesn't hurt at all, in fact I think it is better.

I think getting that book and going through it together is a really good step, so is making a general plan for me to get out there, and talking honestly about our intentions and desires. I've been doing my best to do that as soon as I realized this was serious. But I take moving in seriously, I take moving to him and starting a new life there seriously. My fear and my pride hold me back. Just like I said, I want to see more action and less talk before I feel more comfortable with making any big commitments.

I realized something about myself because of this relationship- I'm much more independent than I thought and more than many women in fact. He teasingly calls me "Miss Independent" but honors me for that too. I think that is why I have never been married, I had the opportunities before, I was proposed to once, a good handful of men were very interested in me and would have liked to marry me I'm sure, I know of a couple in my life, but I was so choosy and had other plans for myself, I guess... I think I had a hard time committing to anyone, although I did love my last boyfriend, I was the one that ended both of my long term relationships. I think I always thought I could do better off myself than with someone else, or at least the men who wanted me. I was so choosy, it served me well in some ways, yes, but I turned down a lot of great men who would have loved me a lot and treated me well, I could have easily been married with kids by now. I had the chance before, I just didn't take it. There's nothing wrong with me, I'm certainly cut out to be a wife, (I used to think maybe I wasn't)... but I was just cynical. I think I've held on to my independence a lot in my life. It's done me well and I feel very confident in myself, so much more than I ever did.

Now this one is so persistent, and consistent, and I do love him, despite his shortcomings, despite my mistrust of men's intentions...he kind of has left me little choice in the matter to try and stay so independent and aloof. He's shown me that I need to yield more. That is very good, I needed that very much. He is patient but at the same time puts me in my place. It was hard for me to find a man who could do that so lovingly.

I am feeling hopeful and positive about the progress we have made.

Edited October 1, 2016 by venusishername

October 1, 2016

So is the flat/room hunting beginning in earnest now in time for January?

How much notice do you have to give at work and for ending your lease?

October 3, 2016

Venus, I'll admit I skimmed your post because I'm on my way to bed. I'm glad you asked what you did and his response seemed promising. But one more thing, if I were you I'd make sure that he doesn't feel he HAS to live with someone to be sure about marriage. Because that could be a deal breaker and you'd want to know in advance.

Also, you wouldn't mind staying with him while you look for a place, would you? If you ended up staying there for a couple weeks, it'd be a little test run of life together without you having to officially move in before marriage. And happy anniversary, by the way! Wow, a year has gone by fast.

Hey, I'll be in New Orleans the first week of November too! Around the 4-8th. It's not 100% set in stone yet but most likely (my friend had this trip planned with her fiancé , but he was cheating on her (ugh) and so that's over and she's looking for girlfriends to join her). It would be cool to meet for a drink if you're interested!

October 4, 2016

So is the flat/room hunting beginning in earnest now in time for January?
How much notice do you have to give at work and for ending your lease?

In earnest, good question. Yes, I think for the time being that I have decided that after the first of the year would be a better time for me to feel ready considering the circumstances. I was thinking about it and I would like to get through the holidays here and at least focus more on saving for the move, I'd also need to think about selling my car/new car, etc. Plus I could likely get a Christmas bonus and I could sure put that in my savings.

Work requires a two week notice, although I'd prefer to give more if possible, but no more is needed. My place is 30 days notice, I just signed a year lease so I'd be on the hook until a replacement tenant was found. My new roommate just signed on and is moving in this week. I don't want to skip town right away, I would prefer that things settle in and if need be, she can take over finding the right fit for her, and to take my place. I would be responsible for my half until she found someone. I think after the holidays would be a good time to make a new start anyway. So, in earnest? Yes, I am focusing on saving money, looking into getting a new car, laying low at work and getting through the holidays, and getting my new home situation settled as well. I found out that there is a job market for me there, but I really need to be there and available to interview. It would be likely that I find work only if I am actually present there. In the meantime I can still send out resumes here and there, see what bites, same for a room or studio to rent out there while get established. This whole thing scares the hell out of me.

Venus, I'll admit I skimmed your post because I'm on my way to bed. I'm glad you asked what you did and his response seemed promising. But one more thing, if I were you I'd make sure that he doesn't feel he HAS to live with someone to be sure about marriage. Because that could be a deal breaker and you'd want to know in advance.

Also, you wouldn't mind staying with him while you look for a place, would you? If you ended up staying there for a couple weeks, it'd be a little test run of life together without you having to officially move in before marriage. And happy anniversary, by the way! Wow, a year has gone by fast.

Hey, I'll be in New Orleans the first week of November too! Around the 4-8th. It's not 100% set in stone yet but most likely (my friend had this trip planned with her fiancé , but he was cheating on her (ugh) and so that's over and she's looking for girlfriends to join her). It would be cool to meet for a drink if you're interested!

That would have been pretty cool to finally put a face to your name, Lissvarna. Unfortunately my idea to go out there came to a screeching halt today. My bf and I were ready to go forward with the plans, it's also his birthday week too.. but I don't have time off enough accrued yet. I didn't realize that I need to actually earn the PTO I was estimating for this trip, I have not earned those additional days yet. As it stands, I am spent as of the end of October. I'm already taking a bachelorette trip, which is why I thought about just extending my trip to see him. I was really disappointed. But it may be for the best. He has offered to pay for my flight, and I found a good price too. He won't know his work schedule with his new contract until next week, but he was very excited about seeing me as soon as possible. This is all very frustrating. So we had an idea that he could come meet ME at the end of my bachelorette party weekend with the girls (my best friend's bachelorette) in Vegas. Then he and I would go back to CA and he'd fly home after his birthday. So that's a possibility. He said he could try for Thanksgiving too, but I reminded him that the prices are really high then. During the month of November is a lot more affordable... but I told him I'm just not able to travel anymore this year, if he wants to see me, he has to come here. He laughed. He said we would talk more tonight and I'm anxious for that. I would much rather go there than him come here, but I just can't. I used up all my time. So that's another motivating factor for me to get a move on it too, I guess. So bummed.. but the cost of traveling or little things that go along with traveling, even if I didn't pay for the flight.... those are things that add up and I could save the money instead. He doesn't mind too much a couple hundred to see me, and spend the money paying for the majority of our 'dates' together... but still. Although we want to see each other as soon as possible, it may not be until the middle of November now. He will know more soon, and I'm sure he'll act. He liked the idea of meeting me in Vegas on Halloween, then we could spend a night there, and then get back to CA for a few days.

He is already planning to come for Christmas, but you know...I was really liking the idea of going to New Orleans again; more than having him come here. I kind of like being in his element. It's more fun there, actually.

So I hope you can go, Lissvarna. I won't see you this time, but maybe another time

Do you really think his response was good? He didn't say anything concrete. It was just that he's been thinking about it. He seems tied up and preoccupied lately, sometimes he gets busy with friends, his kids, work, etc. And lately I've been feeling very far away from him. Especially on the weekends it's hard.. we both get busy with social lives, we can't always connect, we are on different time zones. Sometimes I'll see a message from him early early morning, when I'm still asleep. Or I'll call after getting home late and he's asleep. I just feel like I'm really far away. Often I feel very disconnected from his life. Although we talk every day, at least message, if not a conversation, still... I don't get to see him smile, or see who he's with, or where he goes. He called me on FaceTime late the other night after being out with his buddies, and just to see each other smile just made everything better. Corny, right? We had this long video chat, and ran out of things to say, we were just getting tired.. but he said, "I just love being able to look at you." Aw. I know he's frustrated. I am too. There's not much more we can do at this point except plan for HIM to come visit, in the meantime I will do my part to move forward in getting the balls to move there after the holidays.

I was at work today, commiserating with my coworker (we are buddies) and I confide in her about all this. We trust each other with private information. We complain lately about work, and talk about how we could be making more money somewhere else, how it's a good job but it sure isn't the end all be all. And it's true. If I left, I realize I can do better, or just as good somewhere else. New Orleans is a major city too, there's lots of work there. It wouldn't be like I was moving to Kansas or something.

We just got off the phone. He says he will do what he can to get here as soon as possible, he is happy to come to CA and see me next month. He will try to meet me in Vegas, that sounds like a good plan.

OK, so I'm just 'being' right now. I don't need to make any actions. The ball is in his court.

On another note. Something he said made that nagging feeling come back up again. The way he spends his money... I mean, we all spend money on things that other people would find frivolous, or even silly. But here I am, doing my best to save money (not succeeding much this month with my bachelorette trip coming up), but he spends his money on things that to me are just silly. I realize this is none of my business NOW, but if we were living together and married, yes it would be a problem. I trust that he can get by and seems to do just fine and doesn't seem to want for much, and seems contented with his lifestyle. But then he complains about wanting to be in a better financial situation, and when we have talked about in the future if we had a child, he says how much that costs, but then from what I see he does nothing to save, or very little, he spends his money on xyz that I think is wasteful and frivolous. Sure, I buy expensive perfume and have spent a lot of money on nice furniture, etc. But I can already see that if we lived together, his spending habits would be a major thorn in my side. He seems open to my suggestions to save, or that spending that money on xyz may not be necessary, etc. But, it is his money. He is only living for himself. I can see he's not living for anyone else, no wife or child. What would it be like if I lived with him, was married to him, if he spent his money on this and that like he does, it would really bother me.

How can I resolve this, this which has been an ongoing, albeit underlying concern? Would he make a good husband if he has this problem? Would I nag him to death and be resentful of his habits? Or is it really something that could be improved, not changed, but improved? Would I have to worry about it? That would be a very heavy weight on me, if I was his wife and we had a child together.

October 4, 2016

What is xyz? If a habit like gambling or something, yes, you should be worried.

If it is just eating out, buying branded stuff etc - it is none of your business now or later unless he can't cover the expense and expect you to support him.

But yeah, if it is a vice of some sort - tell him now if it is a deal breaker for you (for me a thing like this will be alcohol - I was upfront from the start so there are no surprises down the line).

October 4, 2016

In earnest, good question. Yes, I think for the time being that I have decided that after the first of the year would be a better time for me to feel ready considering the circumstances. I was thinking about it and I would like to get through the holidays here and at least focus more on saving for the move, I'd also need to think about selling my car/new car, etc. Plus I could likely get a Christmas bonus and I could sure put that in my savings.

Work requires a two week notice, although I'd prefer to give more if possible, but no more is needed. My place is 30 days notice, I just signed a year lease so I'd be on the hook until a replacement tenant was found. My new roommate just signed on and is moving in this week. I don't want to skip town right away, I would prefer that things settle in and if need be, she can take over finding the right fit for her, and to take my place. I would be responsible for my half until she found someone. I think after the holidays would be a good time to make a new start anyway. So, in earnest? Yes, I am focusing on saving money, looking into getting a new car, laying low at work and getting through the holidays, and getting my new home situation settled as well. I found out that there is a job market for me there, but I really need to be there and available to interview. It would be likely that I find work only if I am actually present there. In the meantime I can still send out resumes here and there, see what bites, same for a room or studio to rent out there while get established. This whole thing scares the hell out of me.

To be honest, with the fact that two other places dropped the ball when they found out you weren't in the area I would hold off on issuing resumes until you have your January move in date for your new place. It could be that the level of role you're after is not in their opinion worthy of phone interviews and paying for your interview travel costs.

With the two week notice you currently have it's unlikely that your new job will be require a 3 month notice period so sending resumes now would possibly put a company off next time around when you are actually there as they may think you still haven't yet moved.

Looking for a place to stay however is a different kettle of fish and you could put your name on someplace for a 6 month lease starting in January.

Is your man on board to start going looking at places for you over the next couple of weeks/months?

I'm also curious as to what the 'xyz' spending is.

We know he eats out so it can't be that and if you're both planning on doing cookery courses together then that issue is solved once you're there (as you said he wouldn't go alone). I'm guessing you did mention that to him, after all it's one of your worries sorted once you move in that it's shared rather than potentially all for you to do - especially if you're thinking of having babies with this guy.

So, what is the xyz he spends his money on?

October 4, 2016

What is xyz? If a habit like gambling or something, yes, you should be worried.
If it is just eating out, buying branded stuff etc - it is none of your business now or later unless he can't cover the expense and expect you to support him.
But yeah, if it is a vice of some sort - tell him now if it is a deal breaker for you (for me a thing like this will be alcohol - I was upfront from the start so there are no surprises down the line).

Funny you mention gambling. No, thank god that isn’t it. He’s not a drinker, doesn’t do drugs and doesn’t have a gambling problem. I have dated alcoholics and I am no stranger to addiction in my own family. I know that would be a terrible move to choose a partner with a vice problem again. Drugs would be my absolute deal breaker. I can handle someone who enjoys a couple drinks because I do too. Gambling regularly? Dangerous territory. I mean, occasional gambling is ok I guess.I have seen him gamble one time. He lost about $25 but that’s not too terrible. When I went with him he played craps and seemed to have a basic understanding of how to play, but the dealer made a joke that it was a good sign, he was asking so many questions, that meant he didn’t gamble much!

You nailed it.. the biggest concern I have is exactly what you said, “unless he can't cover the expense and expect you to support him.” This happened with my ex boyfriend in the end of our relationship. He took no financial responsibility and asked his millionaire mommy to support him (and ultimately me). **** that. I worry this would happen to me again. I worry that my bf will end up blowing his money and asking me to cover or support. I am not ok with being the breadwinner. I do not want to have to worry about that kind of thing. He needs to be able to carry his own weight, and I never want to have to worry about it. If he ever pulls anything like what my ex did, I am ending the relationship. This is one thing I will not stand for.

XYZ for him is spending money going out to eat all the time, getting a rental car because he drives a lot for work and likes to have a “luxury car” once in awhile, just because. XYZ is spending hundreds of dollars on a hotel room for one night for us three miles away from his house because he thought it would be romantic. It’s spending money on dry cleaning when it doesn’t need to be dry cleaned. He complains about money, but he spends the money he has. It worries me that he doesn’t plan ahead for the future. That’s the bottom line. You don’t save money by MAKING it, you save money by not SPENDING it. Phfft, this is difficult for me too.

Last night, for the first time, we discussed if we were married/living together, about having a joint account. Apparently his last marriage was not the way I would want our relationship to be. They didn’t have a joint account. They didn’t have a schedule together, they would do their own thing, and just come home when they felt like it. I told him that wouldn’t be the case with me. I said if we were married, we would need to have a joint account for savings that we wouldn’t touch. He agreed, and actually suggested it at first. Then would keep our own accounts, where we both worked and could spend our money as we wanted. Then a joint checking, for our living expenses. I think that would work well. I can already see that I’m the more frugal and practical person in this relationship, I’m very orderly and type A personality. He’s the opposite. This could be a challenge in the future. But, I would be ok with being in charge of the finances, I just never ever want to worry about him not pulling his weight. That would be the end of the relationship for me.

Edited October 4, 2016 by venusishername

October 4, 2016

Is your man on board to start going looking at places for you over the next couple of weeks/months?

Yes, of course. He is happy to help out in any way he can. If I tell him I'm ready to seriously find a place there, he would do everything he could to ease my transition.

He said in exasperation last night, "what am I going to have to do to get you here?"

October 4, 2016

Yes, of course. He is happy to help out in any way he can. If I tell him I'm ready to seriously find a place there, he would do everything he could to ease my transition.
He said in exasperation last night, "what am I going to have to do to get you here?"

He didn't seem to keen in one of your recent posts for you to move into a place of your own - more that he didn't see any need and he wanted you to move in with him - I must have misinterpreted.

Exasperation isn't such a great thing - sounds like he is becoming frustrated with things.

Get him some appointments for viewings this month - perhaps that will prove to him that you are seriously looking to move there in January. It's not far off after all!

October 4, 2016

Ha great that it is not gambling or drugs as I initially guessed. What you described is not terrible and frankly there are many ways to compromise on.

However - I completely emphatize with you because this post sort of covers the story of my life. My ex was a miserable alcoholic, we lived together shortly (because he convinced me I'm the one, he wants to marry me and blablabla)... He NEVER paid his share of the rent, utilities, food - nothing, after month 1. I was shouldering the expenses for two, plus all his wills and wishes for booze, clothes etc, and in the rare cases where I refused - he would 'borrow' money from his mommy. So he spend our whole relationship 'borrowing' from me and mommy - and sure enough, I never saw anything back. We're talking several thousand money 'borrowed for good' from me.

So I have the same insecurities like you with my current boyfriend. Every time that he'd spend frivolously I'd cringe thinking that the history will repeat and I'd be a sugar momma by need again . So far so good - it has never been an issue (we started dating March last year and are living together from almost an year), but I'm still scared to death by the though.

Having said that - I have an advice for you. DON'T make a shared account, checkig or saving, before legally married. You'd have no protection if things go sour. With my BF we just made a system he pays the bills (rent, utilities, food etc) and I reimburse 50% to him in the end of each month (or vice versa if I pay the bills). No shared account prior to marriage to avoid the sh*t show of my last relationship.

Now, if you get married - it is good to have a shared account for joined expenses. However- keep in mind what the law is - everything acquired post-marriage is a shared asset.... Keep that in mind - how you micromanage is just for your peace of mind, post-marriage legally it is all one fiscal unit (except inheritance from what I've researched).

Regarding your BF spending habits - he's not doing anything wrong technically, but he's living like a bachelor. I'm sure things will change when you finally get marriead or live together - e.g. you can decide together not to eat out but to make a home meal etc. I think you shouldn't worry for that now. However - this spending habit of his makes a good case for long relationship/engagement prior to marriage - to see if you can adjust your spending habits together while working as a committed couple.

Btw I had a relatively good progress with my BF regarding spending/saving after we started cohabitating - I had to guide him how to pay off his loans, think more before spending, build his credit etc. He is now thanking me so it was wort it for both of us. It didn't wok on the timescale that I wanted (I like you wanted a faster-track relationship because I want kids and I'll soon be 32...) but I think the time invested was worth it and now I can see things coming in place. Btw dating expenses are one of the frivolous things that is most easy to stop - I squared away that I'd appreciate more putting money in his retirement account than buying me gifts and that kind of set the tone for spending less in general. Maybe you can try something similar - if you use as an example expense involving you it is less 'threatening' than telling him to stop doing something that he does for himself.

Funny you mention gambling. No, thank god that isn’t it. He’s not a drinker, doesn’t do drugs and doesn’t have a gambling problem. I have dated alcoholics and I am no stranger to addiction in my own family. I know that would be a terrible move to choose a partner with a vice problem again. Drugs would be my absolute deal breaker. I can handle someone who enjoys a couple drinks because I do too. Gambling regularly? Dangerous territory. I mean, occasional gambling is ok I guess.I have seen him gamble one time. He lost about $25 but that’s not too terrible. When I went with him he played craps and seemed to have a basic understanding of how to play, but the dealer made a joke that it was a good sign, he was asking so many questions, that meant he didn’t gamble much!
You nailed it.. the biggest concern I have is exactly what you said, “unless he can't cover the expense and expect you to support him.” This happened with my ex boyfriend in the end of our relationship. He took no financial responsibility and asked his millionaire mommy to support him (and ultimately me). **** that. I worry this would happen to me again. I worry that my bf will end up blowing his money and asking me to cover or support. I am not ok with being the breadwinner. I do not want to have to worry about that kind of thing. He needs to be able to carry his own weight, and I never want to have to worry about it. If he ever pulls anything like what my ex did, I am ending the relationship. This is one thing I will not stand for.
XYZ for him is spending money going out to eat all the time, getting a rental car because he drives a lot for work and likes to have a “luxury car” once in awhile, just because. XYZ is spending hundreds of dollars on a hotel room for one night for us three miles away from his house because he thought it would be romantic. It’s spending money on dry cleaning when it doesn’t need to be dry cleaned. He complains about money, but he spends the money he has. It worries me that he doesn’t plan ahead for the future. That’s the bottom line. You don’t save money by MAKING it, you save money by not SPENDING it. Phfft, this is difficult for me too.

Last night, for the first time, we discussed if we were married/living together, about having a joint account. Apparently his last marriage was not the way I would want our relationship to be. They didn’t have a joint account. They didn’t have a schedule together, they would do their own thing, and just come home when they felt like it. I told him that wouldn’t be the case with me. I said if we were married, we would need to have a joint account for savings that we wouldn’t touch. He agreed, and actually suggested it at first. Then would keep our own accounts, where we both worked and could spend our money as we wanted. Then a joint checking, for our living expenses. I think that would work well. I can already see that I’m the more frugal and practical person in this relationship, I’m very orderly and type A personality. He’s the opposite. This could be a challenge in the future. But, I would be ok with being in charge of the finances, I just never ever want to worry about him not pulling his weight. That would be the end of the relationship for me.

Edited October 4, 2016 by No_Go

October 4, 2016

I agree it matters more whether he can always cover for the expense than the nature of the expense itself. Context matters. I spend an absurd amount on food and drink---if you only talked to me about wine, whiskey or kitchen gadgets you'd think I spend a ton on everything---but most of my clothes are 5-10 years old and my car is from 2003. So long as he is able to balance his spending and saving you don't have an issue. But without knowing more about what his finances are like, you can't determine whether going out to eat is just annoying or a genuine problem. At one point you said he maxed out his credit card on a trip to see you, but later you said he didn't have credit cards.* In the case of having no money left to spend, there's a huge difference in whether it was a debit or credit card account. I also agree with No_Go that it doesn't sound like too big a deal, but without context and more details you just don't know. I would take note of it for now and raise it later on the next trip, when you're ready to discuss finances.

With interest rates being what they are, it's in your interest to invest conservatively rather than go for a savings account. A savings account will give you very little over the long run, while a good split of mutual funds will provide steady gains and basically zero volatility. The only problem is they take a while to start earning, but that's the point of a long-term savings account anyhow.

It sounds like he's kind of frustrated that you won't move in with him, and I think he's going to do absolutely everything he can to make sure you move in with him instead of getting your own place. You say he's helped you look for places, but it doesn't sound like you've made concrete progress in that direction. The only thing you've written of any real (and it may not be much) concern is that he seems very, very determined to live together before proposing. He doesn't sound like he's going to bend on that. You may be Miss Independent, but you're not the only one who can be stubborn in this relationship. He's not going to give in just because you've asked him repeatedly. So what will you do? How do you reconcile that?

So when will the next visit be? Sooner is definitely better, especially right now.

* = thanks to my fiance, who requests regular updates on this thread, for pointing this out

Edited October 4, 2016 by lana-banana

October 5, 2016

He didn't seem to keen in one of your recent posts for you to move into a place of your own - more that he didn't see any need and he wanted you to move in with him - I must have misinterpreted.

Exasperation isn't such a great thing - sounds like he is becoming frustrated with things.
Get him some appointments for viewings this month - perhaps that will prove to him that you are seriously looking to move there in January. It's not far off after all!

Well, no you aren't mistaken, he's not keen on me getting my own place, but since I stand firm in that I won't move in with him, he'd be happy to have me closer no matter what. Yes, he's frustrated. Maybe exasperated implied negative. I know he wants to be with me.

Not a bad idea of course to get the idea of places for him to check out when he can. Like I said, I can still send resumes out and see what bites, same for places to live. One big thing I'm moving towards right now is selling my car and getting a really reliable SUV in the event I drive across the country to get there. In any case, I'd need to sell my car here and buy a new one, either here or there. I need a car if I move there and I wouldn't trust mine to get across the States.

Ha great that it is not gambling or drugs as I initially guessed. What you described is not terrible and frankly there are many ways to compromise on.

However - I completely emphatize with you because this post sort of covers the story of my life. My ex was a miserable alcoholic, we lived together shortly (because he convinced me I'm the one, he wants to marry me and blablabla)... He NEVER paid his share of the rent, utilities, food - nothing, after month 1. I was shouldering the expenses for two, plus all his wills and wishes for booze, clothes etc, and in the rare cases where I refused - he would 'borrow' money from his mommy. So he spend our whole relationship 'borrowing' from me and mommy - and sure enough, I never saw anything back. We're talking several thousand money 'borrowed for good' from me.

So I have the same insecurities like you with my current boyfriend. Every time that he'd spend frivolously I'd cringe thinking that the history will repeat and I'd be a sugar momma by need again . So far so good - it has never been an issue (we started dating March last year and are living together from almost an year), but I'm still scared to death by the though.

Having said that - I have an advice for you. DON'T make a shared account, checkig or saving, before legally married. You'd have no protection if things go sour. With my BF we just made a system he pays the bills (rent, utilities, food etc) and I reimburse 50% to him in the end of each month (or vice versa if I pay the bills). No shared account prior to marriage to avoid the sh*t show of my last relationship.

Now, if you get married - it is good to have a shared account for joined expenses. However- keep in mind what the law is - everything acquired post-marriage is a shared asset.... Keep that in mind - how you micromanage is just for your peace of mind, post-marriage legally it is all one fiscal unit (except inheritance from what I've researched).

Regarding your BF spending habits - he's not doing anything wrong technically, but he's living like a bachelor. I'm sure things will change when you finally get marriead or live together - e.g. you can decide together not to eat out but to make a home meal etc. I think you shouldn't worry for that now. However - this spending habit of his makes a good case for long relationship/engagement prior to marriage - to see if you can adjust your spending habits together while working as a committed couple.

Btw I had a relatively good progress with my BF regarding spending/saving after we started cohabitating - I had to guide him how to pay off his loans, think more before spending, build his credit etc. He is now thanking me so it was wort it for both of us. It didn't wok on the timescale that I wanted (I like you wanted a faster-track relationship because I want kids and I'll soon be 32...) but I think the time invested was worth it and now I can see things coming in place. Btw dating expenses are one of the frivolous things that is most easy to stop - I squared away that I'd appreciate more putting money in his retirement account than buying me gifts and that kind of set the tone for spending less in general. Maybe you can try something similar - if you use as an example expense involving you it is less 'threatening' than telling him to stop doing something that he does for himself.

Thank you for relating your story. I had something similar, although I didn't shoulder the bills, I felt I was busting my ass and being responsible and he didn't (my ex). So yes, money and spending is a loaded issue for me in a relationship. I'm glad to hear you say (and I agree) that he's just spending like a bachelor, if it was a joint effort as in living together/marriage, it would (I hope) be quite different. He was the one who initially suggested that in the future, (not now), having a joint savings account, and I suggested a joint checking to pay bills, etc. He agreed that sounds good. Before living together/marriage, I agree with you to not share accounts. It was just something we talked about for future.

I agree it matters more whether he can always cover for the expense than the nature of the expense itself. Context matters. I spend an absurd amount on food and drink---if you only talked to me about wine, whiskey or kitchen gadgets you'd think I spend a ton on everything---but most of my clothes are 5-10 years old and my car is from 2003. So long as he is able to balance his spending and saving you don't have an issue. But without knowing more about what his finances are like, you can't determine whether going out to eat is just annoying or a genuine problem. At one point you said he maxed out his credit card on a trip to see you, but later you said he didn't have credit cards.* In the case of having no money left to spend, there's a huge difference in whether it was a debit or credit card account. I also agree with No_Go that it doesn't sound like too big a deal, but without context and more details you just don't know. I would take note of it for now and raise it later on the next trip, when you're ready to discuss finances.

With interest rates being what they are, it's in your interest to invest conservatively rather than go for a savings account. A savings account will give you very little over the long run, while a good split of mutual funds will provide steady gains and basically zero volatility. The only problem is they take a while to start earning, but that's the point of a long-term savings account anyhow.

It sounds like he's kind of frustrated that you won't move in with him, and I think he's going to do absolutely everything he can to make sure you move in with him instead of getting your own place. You say he's helped you look for places, but it doesn't sound like you've made concrete progress in that direction. The only thing you've written of any real (and it may not be much) concern is that he seems very, very determined to live together before proposing. He doesn't sound like he's going to bend on that. You may be Miss Independent, but you're not the only one who can be stubborn in this relationship. He's not going to give in just because you've asked him repeatedly. So what will you do? How do you reconcile that?

So when will the next visit be? Sooner is definitely better, especially right now.

* = thanks to my fiance, who requests regular updates on this thread, for pointing this out

You know, Lana, I'm not sure that it's that he's unwilling to bend on his stance that we MUST live together before getting married. He said last night, in an emotional and frustrated state, "I think if we just move in together we can work everything out and everything will fall into place." I didn't take that to mean that he insists that we live together before marriage. I think what he means is that he thinks everything will just work out. The other night we said something like we 'agree to disagree' and I said, 'wouldn't it be at least a good start, if we could at least live in the same city?' And he agreed that was true. He conceded that of course we could get to know each other better (as he thinks we would living together), meaning the household habits, the every day mundane things, etc, without living together. I told him we didn't have to live together to know that. If I lived in the same city, I would still be seeing him all the time. Also I reminded him that if neither of us were sure, it wouldn't be very smart to live together, it would make it harder if things didn't work out for some reason, also, I take living together very seriously and I would like to come to a point where, even if we don't have all the answers, or know each other day in and out, the mundane things, the nitty gritty, we are either all in or out. I'm not doing a half-assed relationship. We are either serious, and committed, or we're not living together. Period. I don't see how this can be reconciled. We don't see eye to eye. However, at this point, he would be happy if I moved to the same city. Like I said, he said in frustration last night, "what am I going to have to do to get you to move in with me?!" Ah.... this is what I wanted. I'm not being manipulative or giving any ultimatums. I'm telling him what my boundaries are, and he knows I'm not giving in. For some reason he will not let this go, getting me to move in. Even if I were to move there and get my own place, I bet he would still try to do everything he could to get me to change my mind.

So, Lana, I'm not sure how this can be reconciled. Maybe he'll just accept that I'm not going to cave in, then he'll get frustrated, and realize that in order for me to live with him and share my life completely, I need us to be sure, and ready to give this 100% commitment. I REALIZE that many couples these days live together before marriage. But is a personal belief that I am not going to compromise on. If he's ready to move in, he's ready to take things to the next level, and vice versa. You can't put the cart before the horse. I find myself becoming more and more conservative as I get older. I wish I had taken my parents' advice a long time ago when it came to dating.

I have to ask out loud, why is he so persistent and insistent about that?? I know he wants me to be with him, and come home to each other, etc. But is that all? Why such a strong pull? No boyfriend before has ever been so insistent for me to move in with him.. before it was usually my idea, I guess.

I just wonder what your thoughts are... why is he so persistent about that, I wonder. He's trying to move it forward?

As for the next visit. Well, as of tonight he was looking at flights out here for the first week of November. I have a long weekend over Veterans Day and he could get away for a long weekend. As it stands now, it will be the first or second week of November. He'll come here for a couple days. Not set in stone, he's waiting for another word on a contract he's holding out on. It depends on when he can get away for 4-5 days at a time. I told him there's nothing I can do, I don't have any time off after Halloween to travel, so if he wants to see me he has to come here. He will, he's working on it. This is all kind of nice, I can just 'be' and focus on moving forward, the car, the job search, etc.

October 5, 2016

\I have to ask out loud, why is he so persistent and insistent about that?? I know he wants me to be with him, and come home to each other, etc. But is that all? Why such a strong pull? No boyfriend before has ever been so insistent for me to move in with him.. before it was usually my idea, I guess.
I just wonder what your thoughts are... why is he so persistent about that, I wonder. He's trying to move it forward?

My thoughts, it's cheaper, easier, a lot more straight forward.

If it were me and I was a whole tonne in love with this guy then I would go for it.

But you seem to like to talk about it a heck of a lot more than action things.

You want a ring and to get married - and it has come across that if he got you a ring you would move or if you got married you would move. Skewed! Don't marry someone if you are not sure and you are so not sure Venus!

As it is, you really could do with living together before any of that. But you won't. So it all stops right there and he is getting frustrated - or exasperated in your words.

It comes over a lot that you don't trust him, without trust there is no real love so if that is the case end the relationship right here right now.

October 5, 2016

He said last night, in an emotional and frustrated state, "I think if we just move in together we can work everything out and everything will fall into place." I didn't take that to mean that he insists that we live together before marriage.

Er, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what means. He is saying if you just move in with him you can worry about the rest later. Don't try for tortured interpretations. He said IF you move in, THEN things will fall into place. It's that simple.

I have to ask out loud, why is he so persistent and insistent about that?? I know he wants me to be with him, and come home to each other, etc. But is that all? Why such a strong pull? No boyfriend before has ever been so insistent for me to move in with him.. before it was usually my idea, I guess.
I just wonder what your thoughts are... why is he so persistent about that, I wonder. He's trying to move it forward?

Gemma's answer is spot on even though it may not be what you want to hear. He wants you to move in because it'd save a ton of money, would be infinitely more convenient, and allow you to evaluate your compatibility as partners on a daily basis. He sees your unwillingness to move in as irrational and wasteful. This isn't about the Greatest Love Ever or anything like that; he just thinks you're being really stubborn about something that's ultimately not to your advantage (in his opinion). He thinks it's a terrible idea and doesn't want you to do it. That's all.

It sort of worries me that you're no closer to reaching any agreement on that point. "Agree to disagree" is not how you handle major differences of opinion.

October 6, 2016

You know, Lana, I'm not sure that it's that he's unwilling to bend on his stance that we MUST live together before getting married. He said last night, in an emotional and frustrated state, "I think if we just move in together we can work everything out and everything will fall into place." I didn't take that to mean that he insists that we live together before marriage. I think what he means is that he thinks everything will just work out. The other night we said something like we 'agree to disagree' and I said, 'wouldn't it be at least a good start, if we could at least live in the same city?' And he agreed that was true. He conceded that of course we could get to know each other better (as he thinks we would living together), meaning the household habits, the every day mundane things, etc, without living together. I told him we didn't have to live together to know that. If I lived in the same city, I would still be seeing him all the time. Also I reminded him that if neither of us were sure, it wouldn't be very smart to live together, it would make it harder if things didn't work out for some reason, also, I take living together very seriously and I would like to come to a point where, even if we don't have all the answers, or know each other day in and out, the mundane things, the nitty gritty, we are either all in or out. I'm not doing a half-assed relationship. We are either serious, and committed, or we're not living together. Period. I don't see how this can be reconciled. We don't see eye to eye. However, at this point, he would be happy if I moved to the same city.

So why don't you do it?

Venus, there is so much churn over this issue. But, as you've said, over and over, you have a firm boundary: you aren't going to live with him before marriage. Fair enough.

And you've also said -- and I think everyone here agrees -- that you are not ready to be married or engaged. Those are steps that come AFTER you've established compatibility, shared goals, mutual trust, deep knowing, etc.

So there are only three options left:

Continue long distance
You move to NOLA
He moves to CA

How is it that the two of you can't agree on one of these and then quit all this churning and move forward, happily, with your choice?

October 6, 2016

My thoughts, it's cheaper, easier, a lot more straight forward.
If it were me and I was a whole tonne in love with this guy then I would go for it.
But you seem to like to talk about it a heck of a lot more than action things.
You want a ring and to get married - and it has come across that if he got you a ring you would move or if you got married you would move. Skewed! Don't marry someone if you are not sure and you are so not sure Venus!

As it is, you really could do with living together before any of that. But you won't. So it all stops right there and he is getting frustrated - or exasperated in your words.

It comes over a lot that you don't trust him, without trust there is no real love so if that is the case end the relationship right here right now.

I know it seems so simple objectively. Of course I'm in love with him, it's just such a big move, and a big risk too. It's also not that I don't trust HIM, I had some bad relationships in my past, both living with the guys, and it's taken me a long time to feel really comfortable and confident with having my own place, life, etc. I know I have some trust issues, but it has nothing to do with HIM in particular. I always lived with boyfriends before and it never worked out. I felt I spent so long with them and by living together it makes it harder, your lives become so intertwined, living together is a really big deal to me. I don't take it lightly. At this point, if I'm not sure I want to share my whole life with someone, and fully commit and get married to this person, then I don't think living together is smart!

I just don't believe living together before marriage is a requirement. I already know that he would be happy just to have me there, even if I don't live with him. I guess the simple question I need to ask myself is, if I move there, how long am I willing to give with no commitment. My fear is I move there, nothing progresses, we find out we aren't compatible in day to day, I have to start over, I wasted time. Then I'd be out in Louisiana away from my friends and family, I have to sacrifice a lot. And he's not sacrificing anything, or risking anything I should say. I know that I could manage, I guess my fear is wasting time on the wrong guy again. I told myself I wouldn't move in with anyone again unless we were planning to get married. Although many will disagree with my choice, including him, it's just what I feel is right.

Er, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what means. He is saying if you just move in with him you can worry about the rest later. Don't try for tortured interpretations. He said IF you move in, THEN things will fall into place. It's that simple.

Gemma's answer is spot on even though it may not be what you want to hear. He wants you to move in because it'd save a ton of money, would be infinitely more convenient, and allow you to evaluate your compatibility as partners on a daily basis. He sees your unwillingness to move in as irrational and wasteful. This isn't about the Greatest Love Ever or anything like that; he just thinks you're being really stubborn about something that's ultimately not to your advantage (in his opinion). He thinks it's a terrible idea and doesn't want you to do it. That's all.

It sort of worries me that you're no closer to reaching any agreement on that point. "Agree to disagree" is not how you handle major differences of opinion.

Ok, fair enough... he thinks it would be wasteful and foolish for me to move all the way there and live in my own place. He's trying to progress the relationship, but is not willing to fully commit to it, as if to say, 'let's just see how this goes, and if we do well living together, then we will plan to get married... someday...'

Well, what IS the resolution? How can we not agree to disagree? One person has to compromise. And I would feel very untrue to myself if I caved in and moved in with him, with no commitment. It just wouldn't feel right to me. I know he's getting frustrated and actually that is good, not bad. He wonders what he has to DO to get what he wants.... and I mean, an attitude of 'let's see how it goes' is very noncommittal to me. If I'm going there, it means I am SERIOUS about this and am very serious about joining my life with this man. I would not move there if I didn't think that we would be happy together and married in the near future.

We had a long talk tonight about what it would be like if we lived together. The day to day things, and also planning together for the future. I felt really good about the talk, and the things we talked about, I am happy to hear that he takes it seriously and wants to talk about these things.The way he sees it, living together would benefit both of us, in addition to me saving money, and he's happy to help me have the things I want. I would make my own money, I could buy a new car, I could put money away to buy a place (someday) and he said he would like to do that with me. As far as day to day things, we would do things together, like cooking at home, we have a lot of similar interests too so that would be fun of course to share those activities, we'd have our lives together and plan for the future, etc. He sounds like he's really ready for this. And I mean, I am too... I just want to be sure it's the right guy to share my life with! I have some trust and commitment issues from my past...

My friend suggested that I ask him, "how long do you expect me to live with you with no commitment?" I mean, moving there and getting my own place I would have to wonder the same thing. I'm just so afraid of repeating the same mistakes I did before. This has nothing to do with me not trusting HIM in particular, because he is a good man and he does love me, and well... I can tell he's put a lot of thought into this and is serious about me and wants to plan for the future. That's so much more than any boyfriend has done for me before. I think it takes me aback sometimes, this is NEW for me. No one has ever been so insistent on wanting me to move in before. No one has been as persistent as he has.

So why don't you do it?

Venus, there is so much churn over this issue. But, as you've said, over and over, you have a firm boundary: you aren't going to live with him before marriage. Fair enough.

And you've also said -- and I think everyone here agrees -- that you are not ready to be married or engaged. Those are steps that come AFTER you've established compatibility, shared goals, mutual trust, deep knowing, etc.

So there are only three options left:

Continue long distance
You move to NOLA
He moves to CA
How is it that the two of you can't agree on one of these and then quit all this churning and move forward, happily, with your choice?

Thanks for keeping it simple. Well, to be honest, as time has gone by in this relationship, it's been against all the odds from day one being long distance.. I get closer and closer to feeling ready to take it a step forward. And the more we talk, and the more I get to know him, and now that we are sharing these ideas for the future... I mean, yes, I can see my life with him, and I have begun to picture what it would be like if we were married. I think we are getting to that point... I really do. I'm pretty darn sure he feels the same. This all takes time. He was the one who initially said it's better not to rush into things. I was surprised that he was 'ready' to move in together after only 6 months or so. He told me tonight, that I'm the best girlfriend he's ever had, even when he was married, he feels I am a better fit for him than that relationship. I mean, that's saying a lot...

He values my gifts and character, and I do him.

To answer your question... yes, we can (and have) decide to move forward. I asked him if he's ok with shooting for after the holidays, and we would remain this long distance until then. He knows I'm considering moving there. I am currently planning to sell my car (so I can get a new and more reliable one to get out there and have in NOLA), and I continue to look into jobs, why not continue to send resumes, I can continue browsing places to rent, I can save up some money in the meantime to put down a deposit.... I can get my Christmas bonus and use that money to do the same... he agrees that this doesn't happen overnight. And in the meantime he is planning to get out here to visit as soon as possible, early November....

And you're right. We need to just make a choice and go forward. He's ready, I have cold feet and it is taking me some time. I guess I am disappointed that he didn't move here, like I said I was hoping for an action on his part, more than just staying put and inviting me into his life... when I have my OWN life here. I was hoping I wouldn't have to be the one to sacrifice and take such a big risk, I've done this before, it scares me. That's why I just don't do it right now.

Someone (in his family actually) told me that he should be the one to come to me... and many of my own family members and friends think so... meaning that he should be offering me commitment before I leave my job, place I love, family, friends behind. It's a big risk for me to take, I feel he gets the easy way and I'd worry that he would take me for granted if I gave so much. This has happened to me before too, which also keeps me in this limbo.

I know I have a choice. I can go there, get my own place, give this 100%, decide if I want to spend my life with this man, and we could be very happy together. Of course we would love being in the same city, we are best friends and we love each other. It would be an adventure, I would enjoy something new, I do love that city, and I could make a good life for myself. I've thought lately, in the worst case scenario, I would have an opportunity to save money, and then I could put that towards something for ME in the future, in the event we didn't work out. I would be moving there for the relationship, and that would require sacrifice. That is a difficult hurdle for me and it must be in the right time. I'm getting closer to ready, we both are. None of this could've happened 6 months ago. So, with planning, and talking so much about things as we have... I am confident that it will move in that direction as soon as we are (both) really ready.

October 6, 2016

Personally I don't see frustration as a good thing as more often than not it makes a person quit while they're ahead.

Browsing places to rent is fine but you need to get him going to view places for you now so that you can get your name down for a place in January when someone's lease is up.

Sending resumes should wait until you have your move date because of the length of notice time the leaver you will replace will have.

You have both agreed to you moving there a while back but it sounds more and more like you don't want to so perhaps you should change your decision on that.

October 6, 2016

I don't know - I'm not feeling so positive about these developments. Seems like when you have a difference in priorities he just wears you down with love talk until you give in. He thinks of you as a wife, loves you etc etc etc but wants to live together first before he commits to marriage... and you still have no answer on the child issue except again, a lot of words and "maybe I'm open, at the right time.." etc etc etc.

Yes, it is financially and logistically more difficult to have a separate place. It's still a legitimate ask. Having a child, too, would increase the financial and logistical difficulty. I'm not sure he's up to that. Frankly, I think he loves you and wants to add you to his life, but I'm not sure he's up for a whole lot more complication at this stage.

Again, hoping for the best for you.

October 6, 2016

Personally I don't see frustration as a good thing as more often than not it makes a person quit while they're ahead.
Browsing places to rent is fine but you need to get him going to view places for you now so that you can get your name down for a place in January when someone's lease is up.
Sending resumes should wait until you have your move date because of the length of notice time the leaver you will replace will have.
You have both agreed to you moving there a while back but it sounds more and more like you don't want to so perhaps you should change your decision on that.

You may be right, that he would quit out of frustration. This has ALWAYS worried me, simply because we are long distance. I don’t feel he would give up after all this investment. He admitted to me that there have been times in the past that he considered breaking this off, in the beginning, when we weren’t so sure, or before things had developed the way they have. I mean, yes of course I worry that he will get frustrated and give up on me, say, “Screw this long distance, I want to date someone in my own city”- I mean, that thought has crossed my mind too in the past. (I could never admit this to him but he admitted to me). But he said he’s so happy with me and loves me, he wouldn’t want to lose that. So he commits to this. He doesn’t feel it’s worth giving up. That’s what he told me last night in fact. So he said he’s willing to be patient, this can’t happen overnight. I mean, I can take his word or not. Of course either one of us can quit.

Gemma, we did not agree to me moving there awhile back. There was no concrete plan and nothing has changed. It has gotten closer to actually happening, whereas before it was just a distant idea.

I don't know - I'm not feeling so positive about these developments. Seems like when you have a difference in priorities he just wears you down with love talk until you give in. He thinks of you as a wife, loves you etc etc etc but wants to live together first before he commits to marriage... and you still have no answer on the child issue except again, a lot of words and "maybe I'm open, at the right time.." etc etc etc.
Yes, it is financially and logistically more difficult to have a separate place. It's still a legitimate ask. Having a child, too, would increase the financial and logistical difficulty. I'm not sure he's up to that. Frankly, I think he loves you and wants to add you to his life, but I'm not sure he's up for a whole lot more complication at this stage.
Again, hoping for the best for you.

What more information could I get on the child issue? He is open to it, he would be happy, he loves me, etc. Can I possibly plan out and predetermine the child issue? I mean, as long as he’s not saying “no, I don’t want any more children” what problem is there?

Do you mean to say that you think he’s just interested in playing house? That he likes the idea of living together and being together, but he’s not really interested in a marriage or a marriage and family?

Edited October 6, 2016 by venusishername

October 6, 2016

Gemma, we did not agree to me moving there awhile back. There was no concrete plan and nothing has changed. It has gotten closer to actually happening, whereas before it was just a distant idea.

I have obviously misinterpreted several weeks worth of postings. My apologies for that. It came across to me that you have pretty much both decided that the move was easier for you so that would be the plan.

I have to say that it sounds like that is also how he has interpreted your discussions also though. EG: 'What can I do to get you here' and 'I know a spot for the cat litter tray' and all the other comments he has made as if the choice between who moves is a foregone conclusion and that it'll be you moving.

You also discussed a move in January a few posts back.

If it's 50/50 and it could be him moving in January are you sure he knows that? It doesn't sound like he does to me.

It's a bit of a crucial thing as more preparation would be required on his part as I am guessing he would be selling his house which at a minimum could take 3 months (at least it does here in the UK) from a buyer to exchanging contracts, not even counting time for viewings and not yet having a buyer.

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