When it rains it pours

[No_Go]

I was just kind of hoping that would put a fire under him to get here ASAP - that's a VERY dangerous tactic. Even if he did came under fire, it can build resentment over time that will corrode the foundations of the relationship. Same with any request done under pressure.

That's not a firm answer. That's not "Yes, I want to marry you", or "I think we should be planning that soon", etc. If I moved there, that's my part of offering commitment. - The problem is that is his honest answer. He doesn't know. He will know when you are in the same town for a while, most likely. His part will be to evaluate your compatibility once in the same town. As I told you before if I were him and I were a bit sociopathic - I'll offer you a ring because I know this is very easy to reverse and in the same time - will put your guards down. Sounds scary right? I don't think he is that guy though, he really wants to evaluate compatibility which speaks volumes for him (serious, not manipulator etc).

 

And no, I'm not moving there and getting my own place so he will propose so I'll stay at his place. I hadn't thought of that, actually. But hey, he might do it then. But that wasn't my intention. My gut feeling? He won't do it. But what may happen if you live together and you move out - it may lead to break up (seems like this is exactly where the things went with your ex?). I think that's more likely than engagement because it is 'reversing' the level of commitment. That's why I strongly suggest to get your own place from the get go (hey, $40/day AirBnB is not bad and I swear you can get MUCH lower than that for a samll Craigslist sublet - maybe $25/day or under).

 

Ha, they would think I was pretty ballsy, maybe not very smart. I don't know what they would think. They would be sad to lose me, I know that. You know what they'll actually think? Nothing really. They'll think how to find a replacement for you, for their own families and kids and problems etc. For your bosses and other professional contacts your personal life is the LEAST of their priorities unless your work environment is uber unhealthy.

[introverted1]

 

Thanks for looking that place up in Metairie, Introverted. That is right outside the city and close to him, about 15 minutes. But tell me why we are looking into extended stay hotels?

 

Well, I guess I am getting lost in the many details presented in this thread.

 

I **thought** you didn't want to live with him when you move to NOLA, at least not until he proposes. And you'd said previously that you could not afford extended stay hotels due to financial constraints. So I thought this might help.

 

Anyway.

 

Having read your most recent post, I am getting the really strong vibe that your concerns boil down to this: you want him to propose (with a ring) and then you'll move. That's what the many vague references to wanting him to step up or make a sacrifice come down to.

 

So again, why are you over-complicating things? Just tell him: I will move to NOLA when you propose and buy me a ring. Never mind whether we think that's a sensible approach (I think most of us don't think so); it's clearly what you want. So just say it! Either he's on board or he isn't.

 

You can't manipulate him into doing what you want. At worst, you'll be successful and he'll resent you later. At best, you will create an unhealthy dynamic in your relationship. It's lose-lose. You know what you want. You don't need another 10, 20, or 100 pages discussing it.

[BluEyeL]

Well, I think she's a little bit right. I wouldn't move in with him either. The problem is it's impossible to have an engagement before they date at the same location and really get to know each other.

 

But moving in is too much. First, there are a lot of adjustments in that situation and they jump from long distance to too close for comfort. Second, there is the why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free idea, which may not be such a crazy idea.

 

i think the only solutions are:1 moving there with your own place and date with no expectations: it could work, it could not. But you move there and make a home there. 2. not moving there and dating long distance another 1-2 years and then he proposes and 3. break up because nobody wants to compromise. He won't propose and you won't turn your life upside down without a good reason.

[introverted1]

Well, I think she's a little bit right. I wouldn't move in with him either. The problem is it's impossible to have an engagement before they date at the same location and really get to know each other.

 

Agreed.

 

The problem -- at least as I see it-- is that there is a disconnect between what Venus actually wants (a proposal + ring and then she'll move in) and what we all think is best (live there on her own for a while, establish compatibility, and then decide to either split or get engaged).

 

What I sense is happening is that Venus knows intellectually that the latter is the right path but, on an emotional level, she wants the former. And I think that a lot of the churn we keep seeing is a result of that disconnect.

 

Sorry to talk about you in the 3rd person, V.

[BluEyeL]

Agreed.

 

The problem -- at least as I see it-- is that there is a disconnect between what Venus actually wants (a proposal + ring and then she'll move in) and what we all think is best (live there on her own for a while, establish compatibility, and then decide to either split or get engaged).

 

What I sense is happening is that Venus knows intellectually that the latter is the right path but, on an emotional level, she wants the former. And I think that a lot of the churn we keep seeing is a result of that disconnect.

 

Sorry to talk about you in the 3rd person, V.

 

Yeah, I talk about V in the third person all the time. I'm sorry. V I promise to stop if you make me

 

The thing is, moving there just to date is too much for her to do and I think she'd MAYBE do it if she had a good feeling about it. It's a HUGE risk. I actually am with her here. It's not the ring per se although it appears to be the ring, but it's probably a gut feeling that she's having. She wants to feel that the risk is not that huge and that he's risking something also. He may be too vague during their discussions and maybe it's not something she can describe, she just feels it. Of course, just my assumptions.

[introverted1]

Yeah, I talk about V in the third person all the time. I'm sorry. V I promise to stop if you make me

 

The thing is, moving there just to date is too much for her to do and I think she'd MAYBE do it if she had a good feeling about it. It's a HUGE risk. I actually am with her here. It's not the ring per se although it appears to be the ring, but it's probably a gut feeling that she's having. She wants to feel that the risk is not that huge and that he's risking something also. He may be too vague during their discussions and maybe it's not something she can describe, she just feels it. Of course, just my assumptions.

 

Maybe I am more adventurous than most but I don't see the big deal in moving. Moving is fun! Definitely a whole lot more fun than churning, churning, churning.... Venus is frustrated, her bf is frustrated. I don't see how that is benefiting them.

 

What's the worst that happens if she moves?-- she and her bf break up and then she either stays in NOLA because she likes it or she moves back to CA. It's simple enough -- she's not dealing with selling property, obtaining a visa, learning a new language or anything like that.

 

I dunno... I can't imagine that all this churn is doing Venus or her bf any good. That's why I said several pages back that they should make a decision and then be happy with it. The alternative -- all this relationship talk and her seeking reassurance that he isn't prepared to give -- sucks the joy out of a relationship.

[BluEyeL]

Perhaps it would be more of an ego blow, I did take this risk and it didn't work out...again! What a moron I am! etc etc etc. Now i have to find a better place to live, a new job back home. Or make a new life in NOLA etc. I dunno... I can see it from both points of view.

[sagamore]

Yeah, I talk about V in the third person all the time. I'm sorry. V I promise to stop if you make me

 

The thing is, moving there just to date is too much for her to do and I think she'd MAYBE do it if she had a good feeling about it. It's a HUGE risk. I actually am with her here. It's not the ring per se although it appears to be the ring, but it's probably a gut feeling that she's having. She wants to feel that the risk is not that huge and that he's risking something also. He may be too vague during their discussions and maybe it's not something she can describe, she just feels it. Of course, just my assumptions.

 

I think this is it. He's been vague/non-committal about the future ("I've been thinking a lot about it") and slow to make plans to visit her. It seems like he was perfectly happy for her to visit him there, but then once that couldn't happen, he hasn't been able to get it together to book a ticket.

 

I'm not sure whether he's ambivalent, kind of set in his ways or just disorganized -- it may be a combination. But either way, I can see why Venus may be hesitant to just move based on what he's giving out

 

Honestly? Gut feeling, I do not see this guy having another kid. I don't think he wants major disruptions to his life. He loves you, Venus, I'm sure. But you're an attractive addition to his current life. I'm not sure how much he's going to compromise for you, or go out of his way to make adjustments. You're already seeing a bit of that now with the travel. I think he would marry again. But the ways he likes to chill out and spend money...he's been baby-free for a while. I don't think he will want to go back.

[venusishername]

I was feeling a lot more confident about moving there, and even sent a message to a great Airbnb host there for the month of January (great price)….until he said something stupid last night. We were talking about me moving there and then he started teasing about how I insist on having my own place (which as you all know he doesn’t agree with).

He said, well what if we were engaged, would I just move in? And then we could be engaged for a couple years. (Yeah, that’s right, he said a couple years). “Because we need to spend time getting to know each other and if we are really compatible.” I’m not sure if he was joking or being thoughtless, or serious. I said, “absolutely not. I’m not waiting around that long.” He laughed, he said it was just a thought. But I was very hurt by it. He said 2 years then? I said, no, more like 6 months to a year. You either know or you don’t. I told him I think within 2 years of dating it needs to be poop or get off the pot. I’m not budging on that. I have felt very hurt and upset that he would say that. I’m not sure if he meant it or said it thoughtlessly. Sometimes he can be thoughtless. But- maybe there is truth to what he says.

 

This is EXACTLY why (BlueEye brought it up and she’s right):

The thing is, moving there just to date is too much for her to do and I think she'd MAYBE do it if she had a good feeling about it. It's a HUGE risk. I actually am with her here. It's not the ring per se although it appears to be the ring, but it's probably a gut feeling that she's having. She wants to feel that the risk is not that huge and that he's risking something also. He may be too vague during their discussions and maybe it's not something she can describe, she just feels it.

I was going to respond to all the great posts today but this hit me and I’m feeling incredibly down in the dumps. Can someone please tell me I’m overreacting? Or is this what Sagamore was talking about?

He’s not sure he wants to marry me, otherwise he would propose. But I agree with Nuevo York that he likely feels we need to live in the same city before it gets to that point. He definitely talks about it. So it looks as if I would be going there, with no intentions, no expectations, no promise, no plans, and then he drops this bomb on me of his passing though that we could be engaged for a couple years??? That isn’t going to work for me. I need him to be a hell of a lot more sure than that in order for me to move there. If I expected things to change if I moved there, I wouldn’t be very smart. Please help. I feel like I got punched in the stomach.

[introverted1]

I'm sorry you are hurting, Venus.

 

I do think there is some truth in what Sagmore said. You and your bf are in different life stages. I don't doubt he loves you, but he has already done marriage, had kids, owns a home (or takes on the responsibility of home ownership even if he isn't on the deed yet)... For you, those are all future dreams.

 

I think it's valid to consider that his timetable for those events may be quite different from your own. That doesn't make him wrong and you right (or vice versa) - it may just be a reality of the fact that he already has 2 kids (grown ones, at that), has already had a bad marriage, has already had baby mama drama, etc.

 

How much are you willing to gamble, V?

[Redhead14]

“Because we need to spend time getting to know each other and if we are really compatible.” - I wanted to say something similar to this a little while ago.

 

This relationship has been long-distance, a handful of trips, meetings, etc., messaging, skyping, whatever. I, personally, would not commit to anything with a person before I have spent a significant, quality period of time with, Plain and Simple. He didn't say anything stupid -- he's being pragmatic. AND, he's showing that he values commitment and takes it seriously. He's afraid to commit because he would hold himself to it apparently. Otherwise, he'd just get her a ring to shut her up, knowing he would/could still bail.

 

This thread has gone on for, what?, a year and half? How much time have you actually spent in each other's presence? A drop in the bucket really compared to a couple who have been together for a year and half and in close proximity. To me, even though it's been quite some time between them, the "actual" is more like 4/5 months of real, quality dating, if that.

 

You cannot, do not, know anything about a person until you have observed them in their "dailies" and for a prolonged and significant way.

 

Venus, herself, may find that after spending some real time and observing behaviors upclose and personal, that the guy is a pain in the ass, irresponsible (and she already questions his financial responsibility), abusive, who knows what . . .

 

She is concerned about giving up what she has and taking a risk. She is clearly taking the lion's share of the risk by giving up her job and uprooting herself while wanting to demand a ring. To him, it's like getting a girl pregnant and feeling obligated to marry her . . .

[venusishername]

I'm listening to a Bob Dylan song renditions in blues/soul on my streaming NO local radio station. He listens to it sometimes while driving, it kind of puts me in 'the mood' almost as if I am picturing myself being there. So this would be a good time to reflect...Pensive... Been depressed and blue this week. Started out on Sunday with severe anxiety attack and now I've withdrawn into a bad mood and depression this week. I guess I'm extra sensitive right now... Just into my head and into myself. So glad to be home and in my pajamas, alone. I guess I just feel like moping.

But what may happen if you live together and you move out - it may lead to break up (seems like this is exactly where the things went with your ex?). I think that's more likely than engagement because it is 'reversing' the level of commitment. That's why I strongly suggest to get your own place from the get go (hey, $40/day AirBnB is not bad and I swear you can get MUCH lower than that for a samll Craigslist sublet - maybe $25/day or under).

No, I wouldn't be moving out of his place to 'break up', and no this didn't happen with my last relationship either. We still continued dating, I just didn't live with him anymore. We lived together after that, down the road. It wasn't like, (and it wouldn't be) "Ok, I don't want to live with you, I'm moving out and we're ending the relationship." I'm looking into Airbnb now because I see that is probably my best option, or a CL sublet. I emailed a host today and am waiting to hear back.

I **thought** you didn't want to live with him when you move to NOLA, at least not until he proposes. And you'd said previously that you could not afford extended stay hotels due to financial constraints. So I thought this might help.

Anyway.Having read your most recent post, I am getting the really strong vibe that your concerns boil down to this: you want him to propose (with a ring) and then you'll move. That's what the many vague references to wanting him to step up or make a sacrifice come down to.

 

So again, why are you over-complicating things? Just tell him: I will move to NOLA when you propose and buy me a ring. Never mind whether we think that's a sensible approach (I think most of us don't think so); it's clearly what you want. So just say it! Either he's on board or he isn't.

 

You can't manipulate him into doing what you want. At worst, you'll be successful and he'll resent you later. At best, you will create an unhealthy dynamic in your relationship. It's lose-lose. You know what you want. You don't need another 10, 20, or 100 pages discussing it.

I will not move in with him permanently upon my move. I thought it would be a wise financial decision to get there and 'land' at his place until I had a stream of income again and could shop around at places to rent. I don't plan on staying. It was just a thought. As you can see I am looking into Airbnb for the short term. - it's just more affordable than extended stay. But thank you, I appreciate the info.

 

And well when you put it this way, I see how this could be seen as manipulative, asking for a ring and proposal before I move. I get it. I don't mean to be. I just want to be sure we are on the same page of commitment and intent to progress the relationship. Blue Eye and Sagamore made really good points- it's really not so much about the ring and a proposal. Although- I would feel a lot more confident giving up so much if he was at that point, I won't lie. I see that's not likely, so it's on me now.

The problem -- at least as I see it-- is that there is a disconnect between what Venus actually wants (a proposal + ring and then she'll move in) and what we all think is best (live there on her own for a while, establish compatibility, and then decide to either split or get engaged).

 

What I sense is happening is that Venus knows intellectually that the latter is the right path but, on an emotional level, she wants the former. And I think that a lot of the churn we keep seeing is a result of that disconnect.

Introverted, yes you are right. That's the churning. I wish it was clear cut, I wish we knew for SURE, there is no guarantee is there? I know it is most wise to have the intention (mutually) to progress the relationship towards marriage, by moving to the same city, dating, compatibility, etc. then after sufficient time deciding to go all in or get out. I'm becoming more and more ok with that.

My other battling conscience feels:

It just makes more sense to move for an intent to marry than for something that is pretty vague and isn't actually happening, it's kind of like pillow talk. I mean, talking about it and doing it is a lot different. So far it's been all talk.

Sagamore says it so well. so much better than I have been able to:

I think this is it. He's been vague/non-committal about the future ("I've been thinking a lot about it") and slow to make plans to visit her. It seems like he was perfectly happy for her to visit him there, but then once that couldn't happen, he hasn't been able to get it together to book a ticket.

 

I'm not sure whether he's ambivalent, kind of set in his ways or just disorganized -- it may be a combination. But either way, I can see why Venus may be hesitant to just move based on what he's giving out

 

Honestly? Gut feeling, I do not see this guy having another kid. I don't think he wants major disruptions to his life. He loves you, Venus, I'm sure. But you're an attractive addition to his current life. I'm not sure how much he's going to compromise for you, or go out of his way to make adjustments. You're already seeing a bit of that now with the travel. I think he would marry again. But the ways he likes to chill out and spend money...he's been baby-free for a while. I don't think he will want to go back.

You said what I've been feeling, Sagamore, I just haven't been able to put a finger on it. "He loves you, Venus, I'm sure. But you're an attractive addition to his current life. I'm not sure how much he's going to compromise for you, or go out of his way to make adjustments." Yes, that is true, I agree with you, except for the part about slow to make his travel plans. I don't feel this is because he's ambivalent or because he's doesn't really prioritize seeing me. He tells me every day that he loves and misses me, and he will be here as soon as possible. I have to believe him when he says he can't make plans until he knows his upcoming work schedule, apparently that is holding him back right now. I don't think that he won't make it out here next month. He was about to book his ticket a week ago when some work stuff came up. So I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on the travel plans. He's never not done what he said he's going to do, so I have to sit back and just let him handle it. There's nothing I can do. Of course there is a little bite to it, I felt hurt that he wasn't doing everything he could to book that ticket. I took it personally, but I can't. Slow to make travel plans, yeah I admit it stings. But it's not a reflection on how he feels about me, I know that.

 

 

I DO think he sees me as an attractive addition to his current life there. He's more than happy to create space in his bedroom and closet for me and to find a good place for my cat's litter box. That's nice. But he's not willing to sacrifice or alter his plans and current lifestyle, as I would be. He just wants me to walk into his world and join his life. He wouldn't be changing or compromising anything. He would be of course willing to help me in any way he could, offering a place to live, helping me save money, helping me to get a new car, making sure I am happy, etc.

I hate to compare to my last relationship, but the last time I left CA to keep my relationship, we had been dating a year, I was head over heels, I think he was too... but he had plans to leave the state and he told me it would be great if I joined him, and he would like me to come, but he was going on with or without me. So I decided to go. He was willing to give up the relationship, he wasn't willing to sacrifice his plans for the sake of keeping me. So I followed him, because I knew if I didn't the relationship would end. Moving to New Orleans to be with my current man reminds me of this, in some ways. It was a very painful experience I had with my ex. Looking back, I see that my ex wasn't willing to do much, change much, or offer any commitment... but I went to him anyway. It all went badly, very badly.I mean, the "churning" is partly this terrible past experience I had.

This is what BlueEye and Sagamore are saying... I'm the one taking the risk... without knowing if they feel the same commitment that I do. I'll say it again- the only reason I'd be moving there is because I want to progress the relationship and because I am seriously considering marrying this man. I just don't see that he's thinking as seriously (or I should say as long term) as I am. He likes to talk about it, and yes, I do believe that he does want to marry again, and I know for sure he loves me. Maybe he's slow to commit. He didn't seem to have any problem progressing the relationship all this time while I was the one holding back and skeptical a LDR could ever work out. He seemed eager to have a relationship, a girlfriend, very eager. So he doesn't have problems with commitment, although I do know he takes marriage very seriously. That's good. So do I.

 

 

I came out and asked him a few weeks ago what I did: "I need to know if you just want me to move in with you and/or be close to you OR you are actually seriously considering a long term future with me." Guys. I need to know this before I move. He hasn't given me anything but vague answers, that he's been "thinking about it". I need more than "thinking about it" to feel real confident in this move. That's it.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting, Venus.

 

I do think there is some truth in what Sagmore said. You and your bf are in different life stages. I don't doubt he loves you, but he has already done marriage, had kids, owns a home (or takes on the responsibility of home ownership even if he isn't on the deed yet)... For you, those are all future dreams.

I think it's valid to consider that his timetable for those events may be quite different from your own. That doesn't make him wrong and you right (or vice versa) - it may just be a reality of the fact that he already has 2 kids (grown ones, at that), has already had a bad marriage, has already had baby mama drama, etc.

How much are you willing to gamble, V?

Great post. Thank you. You say it so well. It's true, what am I willing to gamble? He's got baggage, he's got a failed marriage in his recent past, baby mama drama, all that jazz.

As for not having any more kids... I think that is hard to say, really. I know that being "open to it" (him) and wanting it once married (me) IS different. I get it. I don't know how to resolve that difference or if it can be resolved. If I got married to him, I would want to plan to have a child in the very near future due to my age. I don't know how to say for sure that we could be on the same page, if we don't even know if we want to marry each other for sure yet! ****! How can I look ahead that far if I don't even know if we'd marry each other?

 

 

But- what you say is true about different life stages. It's not good or bad, it just is. We are in different life stages. He knows it and so do I. He knows I want marriage and to have kid(s). He knew that very early on. I know a couple that broke up because of an age difference and because she wanted kids and he didn't. They broke of an engagement. Well, you can't help who you fall in love with. You can't plan these things. So- where does that leave us? Time will tell? I feel I have already said very clearly how I feel and what I want in my life, and that I don't date in long term relationships unless marriage is the end goal. What more can I say or ask?

 

This relationship has been long-distance, a handful of trips, meetings, etc., messaging, skyping, whatever. I, personally, would not commit to anything with a person before I have spent a significant, quality period of time with, Plain and Simple. He didn't say anything stupid -- he's being pragmatic. AND, he's showing that he values commitment and takes it seriously. He's afraid to commit because he would hold himself to it apparently. Otherwise, he'd just get her a ring to shut her up, knowing he would/could still bail.

 

This thread has gone on for, what?, a year and half? How much time have you actually spent in each other's presence? A drop in the bucket really compared to a couple who have been together for a year and half and in close proximity. To me, even though it's been quite some time between them, the "actual" is more like 4/5 months of real, quality dating, if that.

 

You cannot, do not, know anything about a person until you have observed them in their "dailies" and for a prolonged and significant way.

 

Venus, herself, may find that after spending some real time and observing behaviors upclose and personal, that the guy is a pain in the ass, irresponsible (and she already questions his financial responsibility), abusive, who knows what . . .

 

She is concerned about giving up what she has and taking a risk. She is clearly taking the lion's share of the risk by giving up her job and uprooting herself while wanting to demand a ring. To him, it's like getting a girl pregnant and feeling obligated to marry her

You're going to have to elaborate on your bolded part. Do you mean he's not taking it as seriously as I am? Yeah, that's my fear man.

 

I have to comment on what you said about living in the same city to know the "Dailies" but I think he's thinking the same thing about ME as I would about him... he might think he wants to see if I have some bad habits that annoy him or he thinks I'm a pain in the ass or whatever. It goes both ways. I get it. And by the way, this thread started I think two years ago now, with tons of other guys I was casually seeing long before I met my current boyfriend. It's been exactly one year since we met and started dating. Since the beginning it has been a serious relationship. I knew that was different early on. I hated dating. I would much rather be in a serious relationship. Oh yeah, I want to be in a serious relationship that results in marriage. So far, at 32 years old, for whatever reason... I have not succeeded at that. Why not is something I can't understand. It makes me feel like I'm not cut out for it. Maybe a higher power has other plans for me or something.

 

 

But sure, I see that it's practical to date every day, before you want to commit to marriage. I know that he takes it seriously, and so do I.

But years of engagement is not an option. I'm almost 33 years old. Why in hell would I want to be engaged to someone for years at my age? I've known friends who had to do this and that's not going to be me.

I'm old fashioned, I guess. I think you know early on (in a reasonable time), if you want to marry someone, or seriously can see it. I don't need too long. And then you do it, just because it feels like the right thing to do.

 

 

He didn't dally with his ex wife. He proposed to her within months of living together and they got married very soon after. Seriously that put me off. I've been very hurt.. I think he said it without thinking or something.

 

I don't think it should take more than 2 years (at my age anyway) to decide if you love someone, and want to marry them. That's me, you all may not agree, but that seems very reasonable to me at this stage in my life.

 

 

I feel so sad and dejected. I know I could move there and be ok. The thought of physically moving sucks. $$$$$$

But the thought of living there is actually kind of exciting. I would make it work on my own if I had to. I just may not have what I want on my timetable, alright. But I could set a timeframe and bail out if nothing progressed by then. For me it's the two year mark. You break up or get engaged with a wedding date. I'm not willing to gamble more than that, Introverted. He's already suggested carelessly, thoughtlessly, half-jokingly, or seriously, I don't know.. that we could get engaged and be engaged for a couple years. That put me right back to square one as far as confidence that he wants to and is ready to seriously progress the relationship. To me that shows he is non-committal. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Would moving there be bringing me CLOSER to what I want, or REMOVING me from it? Clearly, I want marriage and a family unit within the next year or two or so. If I don't know for sure that he wants the same thing, why the hell would I move there? ! Am I right or am I just going crazy in my own head?

 

 

I feel like ****.

[Redhead14]

I'm listening to a Bob Dylan song renditions in blues/soul on my streaming NO local radio station. He listens to it sometimes while driving, it kind of puts me in 'the mood' almost as if I am picturing myself being there. So this would be a good time to reflect...Pensive... Been depressed and blue this week. Started out on Sunday with severe anxiety attack and now I've withdrawn into a bad mood and depression this week. I guess I'm extra sensitive right now... Just into my head and into myself. So glad to be home and in my pajamas, alone. I just don't want to be around anyone.

 

 

No, I wouldn't be moving out of his place to 'break up', and no this didn't happen with my last relationship either. We still continued dating, I just didn't live with him anymore. We lived together after that, down the road. It wasn't like, (and it wouldn't be) "Ok, I don't want to live with you, I'm moving out and we're ending the relationship." I'm looking into Airbnb now because I see that is probably my best option, or a CL sublet. I emailed a host today and am waiting to hear back.

 

I will not move in with him permanently upon my move. I thought it would be a wise financial decision to get there and 'land' at his place until I had a stream of income again and could shop around at places to rent. I don't plan on staying. It was just a thought. As you can see I am looking into Airbnb for the short term. - it's just affordable.

 

 

And well when you put it this way, I see how this could be seen as manipulative, asking for a ring and proposal before I move. I get it. I don't mean to be. I just want to be sure we are on the same page of commitment and intent to progress the relationship. Blue Eye and Sagamore made really good points- it's really not so much about the ring and a proposal. Although- I would feel a lot more confident giving up so much if he was at that point, I won't lie. I see that's not likely, so it's on me now.

 

Introverted, yes you are right. That's the churning. I wish it was clear cut, I wish we knew for SURE, there is no guarantee is there? I know it is most wise to have the intention (mutually) to progress the relationship towards marriage, by moving to the same city, dating, compatibility, etc. then after sufficient time deciding to go all in or get out. I'm becoming more and more ok with that.

My other battling conscience feels:

It just makes more sense to move for a marriage than for something that is pretty vague and isn't actually happening, it's kind of like pillow talk.

I mean, talking about it and doing it is a lot different. So far it's been all talk.

Sagamore says it so well. so much better than I have been able to:

 

You said what I've been feeling, Sagamore, I just haven't been able to put a finger on it. "He loves you, Venus, I'm sure. But you're an attractive addition to his current life. I'm not sure how much he's going to compromise for you, or go out of his way to make adjustments." Yes, that is true, I agree with you, except for the part about slow to make his travel plans. I don't feel this is because he's ambivalent or because he's doesn't really prioritize seeing me. He tells me every day that he loves and misses me, and he will be here as soon as possible. I have to believe him when he says he can't make plans until he knows his upcoming work schedule, apparently that is holding him back right now. I don't think that he won't make it out here next month. He was about to book his ticket a week ago when some work stuff came up. So I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on the travel plans. He's never not done what he said he's going to do, so I have to sit back and just let him handle it. There's nothing I can do. Of course there is a little bite to it, I felt hurt that he wasn't doing everything he could to book that ticket. I took it personally, but I can't. Slow to make travel plans, yeah I admit it stings. But it's not a reflection on how he feels about me, I know that.

 

I DO think he sees me as an attractive addition to his life there. But he's not willing to sacrifice or alter his plans. He just wants me to walk into his world and join his life. He wouldn't be changing or compromising anything. He would be of course willing to help me in any way he could, offering a place to live, helping me save money, helping me to get a new car, making sure I am happy, etc.

I hate to compare to my last relationship, but the last time I left CA to keep my relationship, we had been dating a year, I was head over heels, I think he was too... but he had plans to leave the state and he told me it would be great if I joined him, and he would like me to come, but he was going on with or without me. So I decided to go. He was willing to give up the relationship, he wasn't willing to sacrifice his plans for the sake of keeping me. So I followed him, because I knew if I didn't the relationship would end. Moving to New Orleans to be with my current man reminds me of this, in some ways. It was a very painful experience I had with my ex. Looking back, I see that my ex wasn't willing to do much, change much, or offer any commitment... but I went to him anyway. It all went badly, very badly.I mean, the "churning" is partly this terrible past experience I had.

This is what BlueEye and Sagamore are saying... I'm the one taking the risk... without knowing if they feel the same commitment that I do. I'll say it again- the only reason I'd be moving there is because I want to progress the relationship and because I am seriously considering marrying this man. I just don't see that he's thinking as seriously (or I should say as long term) as I am.

I came out and asked him a few weeks ago what I did: "I need to know if you just want me to move in with you and/or be close to you OR you are actually seriously considering a long term future with me." Guys. I need to know this before I move. He hasn't given me anything but vague answers, that he's been "thinking about it". I need more than "thinking about it" to feel real confident in this move. That's it.

 

 

Great post. Thank you. You say it so well. It's true, what am I willing to gamble? He's got baggage, he's got a failed marriage in his recent past, baby mama drama, all that jazz.

As for not having any more kids... I think that is hard to say, really. I know that being "open to it" and wanting it once married is different. I get it. I don't know how to resolve that difference or if it can be resolved. If I got married to him, I would want to plan to have a child. I don't know how to say for sure that we could be on the same page, if we don't even know if we want to marry each other for sure yet.

But- what you say is true about different life stages. It's not good or bad, it just is. We are in different life stages. He knows it and so do I. He knows I want marriage and to have kid(s). He knew that very early on. I know a couple that broke up because of an age difference and because she wanted kids and he didn't. They broke of an engagement. Well, you can't help who you fall in love with. You can't plan these things. So- where does that leave us? Time will tell? I feel I have already said very clearly how I feel and what I want in my life, and that I don't date in long term relationships unless marriage is the end goal. What more can I say or ask?

 

 

You're going to have to elaborate on your bolded part. Do you mean he's not taking it as seriously as I am? Yeah, that's my fear man.

 

 

I have to comment on what you said about living in the same city to know the "Dailies" but I think he's thinking the same thing about ME as I would about him... he might think he wants to see if I have some bad habits that annoy him or he thinks I'm a pain in the ass or whatever. It goes both ways. I get it. And by the way, this thread started with tons of other guys I was casually seeing long before I met my current boyfriend. It's been exactly one year sincen we met and started dating. Since the beginning it has been a serious relationship. I knew that was different early on.

But sure, I see that it's practical to date every day, before you want to commit to marriage. I know that he takes it seriously, and so do I.

But years of engagement is not an option. I'm almost 33 years old. Why in hell would I want to be engaged to someone for years at my age? I'm old fashioned, I guess. I think you know early on (in a reasonable time), if you want to marry someone, or seriously can see it. I don't need too long.

He didn't either with his ex wife. He proposed to her within months of living together and they got married very soon after. Seriously that put me off. I've been very hurt.. I think he said it without thinking or something.

 

I don't think it should take more than 2 years (at my age anyway) to decide if you love someone, and want to marry them. That's me, you all may not agree, but that seems very reasonable to me at this stage in my life.

 

 

So. The more I think about it, the thought of actually physical moving sucks, but the idea of me having a life in NO is actually exciting. I am also an adventurous person but I'm cautious and calculated and have a lot of anxiety issues. I know I could make it work. But the fact that he's not making any sacrifices and just has to go about his own life and his own plans.... it just doesn't seem like it's fair, does it? My dad said that. He said if I moved there, it would be like my bf was "getting a free ride, and that doesn't seem fair". That IS the dilemma we have being in a LDR. But I did this before.. my bad experience in the past (I mentioned more detail above when it came time for me to move to him)....

I could be brave and do it, and have more confidence in myself. This IS my life, I can make it what I want to. I'm not happy living with a roommate at 32. I have all my nice things and furniture and comfortable home. I work hard and I have a decent job and I support myself. I guess I could do that anywhere, right? I think I'm going to have to put aside my dreams of being married for now, aren't I? Because I've been wanting it for a really long time and it's never worked out for me in my life. Maybe it's not going to happen. I find it very hard to take my focus away from that goal, when it has been something I've wanted all my life. I don't want to be alone anymore.

So that means I'm going to have to move across the country to a man who doesn't seem equally as interested long term goal as I am, and in my timeframe, and who likely doesn't want to plan to have another child.

If I want to be married in the very near future and have a child with the right person who is compatible with me and my goals...am I getting CLOSER to that by moving or REMOVING myself from that opportunity here in CA? Ugh.

 

 

Sometimes I get so down that I think it might be better to just withdraw and be alone. Being in a relationship that could or could not be leading in that direction is really scary. Is he worth that risk? I need to know he is meeting me halfway. That's not necessarily a ring. It's what BlueEye and Sagamore said..

 

 

I don't know what else to say tonight. I feel like ****.

 

I always tell people " that it's best to do nothing when they are uncertain."

 

And then there are times when I decide that "fear does not control me. I face it so as to control it".

 

"Man up" - either **** or get off the pot for yourself . . . women should hold themselves to the same expectations that they have for men in certain circumstances.

 

Long distance becomes the chicken game -- see who blinks first . . . It's usually a game where there are no winners . . .

[NuevoYorko]

Well, I think she's a little bit right. I wouldn't move in with him either. The problem is it's impossible to have an engagement before they date at the same location and really get to know each other.

 

But moving in is too much. First, there are a lot of adjustments in that situation and they jump from long distance to too close for comfort. Second, there is the why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free idea, which may not be such a crazy idea.

 

i think the only solutions are:1 moving there with your own place and date with no expectations: it could work, it could not. But you move there and make a home there. 2. not moving there and dating long distance another 1-2 years and then he proposes and 3. break up because nobody wants to compromise. He won't propose and you won't turn your life upside down without a good reason.

 

The bolded is the key to everything. Drop the expectations, or else communicate them perfectly clearly and stand by your position.

 

Don't throw yourself under the bus. But please stop manipulating him.

[introverted1]

 

He didn't dally with his ex wife. He proposed to her within months of living together and they got married very soon after. Seriously that put me off. I've been very hurt.. I think he said it without thinking or something.

 

This is how his history affects your relationship.

 

You come at this from the perspective that you moved for a bf before, it didn't work out, and now you are hesitant to repeat that mistake.

 

He's coming from the perspective that he proposed and married too quickly, it ended badly, and now he is hesitant to repeat that mistake.

[Redhead14]

To him, it's like getting a girl pregnant and feeling obligated to marry her

You're going to have to elaborate on your bolded part.

 

Do you mean he's not taking it as seriously as I am? Yeah, that's my fear man.

 

No, I mean, demanding/expecting a ring is pressuring and manipulating. No one likes to feel trapped or cornered. That is not the way to establish and build a relationship.

 

I really don't know whether he is or isn't taking it as seriously as you are. I can, however, "walk around in his shoes" a little too. If I were a man, who really cared for a woman and was considering marrying her and under these conditions, I would be hesitant and want to have more of an opportunity to evaluate the woman on a deeper, more "revealing" way. And, you should give yourself that opportunity to evaluate him more closely without pressure and expectations.

 

And, I'll say this, the reason you are going through so much mental and emotional anguish is simply that you do not know him well enough. You haven't been able to establish a firm foundation of trust and security with him. That can't happen until you spend more time together.

 

My statement is kinda about the Meatloaf song -- Paradise by the dashboard light . . . in the heat of the moment the girl is taunting him, getting him worked up and demanding that he tell her he loves, will he love her til the end of time . . . he caves under the pressure and tells her he loves her and then marries her. After they've been together for a while, he's praying for the end of time. He took the vow he made in that car seriously and married her . . . he wasn't happy and I doubt very much that she was.

 

I wouldn't buy a house without a tour and an inspection. All I'm really trying to point out is that you are mistaken if you think he's not going through some of the same mental gymnastics you are. There is never a guarantee -- ever. Even an engagement ring will not guarantee that a marriage would take place.

 

Venus, I think you would be rowing this boat with any man you date and get to this point, even if it weren't long-distance.

 

Do what YOU want to do, move-don't move, but make that decision for you without trying to manipulate him. Even if he gives you a ring, because you tell him you won't move there without it, I guarantee that you will be questioning whether he gave you that ring because he really wanted to. You'll be on another path of questioning and wondering.

[Sometymeswhy]

Venus, I doubt your boyfriend can be easily manipulated into getting a ring. He seems like a sincere person, just lacking your sense of urgency. So I wouldn't project what others have suggested that he would grow to resent you for getting engaged under pressure. He's working on his time table while you have yours.

 

Since you are feeling badly it's time for a "come to Jesus" conversation where you both lay your cards on the table. Ideally in person.

 

Come right out and ask him if he can see himself married to you within a year. That if he drags it out any longer that is a deal breaker and you won't take the risk. Ask does he want kids within two years. No more beating around the bush waiting for some grand jesture from him. You tell him what you want and when you want it. You love him. He loves you. You've had a year to communicate and several in person overnight visits. I believe that's enough to know. Get the answers you want or move on. Trying to understand his baggage or guess his motivations will drive you crazy and prolong the process.

 

Now it would be different if you had other reasons to move there, for example looking for a new adventure/expanding your horizons for the sake of new experiences, but clearly your motivations for going there are 100% for him so be 100% sure that the two of you are on the same page. The only way you can be sure is to have a very clear conversation about your intentions. The long term outcome is never guaranteed (you may ultimately be incompatible) but your intentions and goals at the beginning should be crystal clear.

[Timshel]

I feel so sad and dejected. I know I could move there and be ok. The thought of physically moving sucks. $$$$$$

But the thought of living there is actually kind of exciting. I would make it work on my own if I had to. I just may not have what I want on my timetable, alright. But I could set a timeframe and bail out if nothing progressed by then. For me it's the two year mark. You break up or get engaged with a wedding date. I'm not willing to gamble more than that, Introverted. He's already suggested carelessly, thoughtlessly, half-jokingly, or seriously, I don't know.. that we could get engaged and be engaged for a couple years. That put me right back to square one as far as confidence that he wants to and is ready to seriously progress the relationship. To me that shows he is non-committal. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Would moving there be bringing me CLOSER to what I want, or REMOVING me from it? Clearly, I want marriage and a family unit within the next year or two or so. If I don't know for sure that he wants the same thing, why the hell would I move there? ! Am I right or am I just going crazy in my own head?

 

 

I feel like ****.

 

There is only one way to answer this question Venus....in a ldr relationship. You are going to have to move there to have an answer.

 

You aren't too old at 32 to make a move and take the chance. Thirty two is not an age on the threshold of dusty but your continued self assessment as such is very anxious.

 

If you are unable to take an extended leave/sabbatical from work to 'live' with him a bit, then you'll have to take the risk or leave it. You both need to have sustained physical contact in order for this relationship to either progress or terminate. If he were the type to throw all in and propose at this point, he would have done so.

This really does leave moving there and sussing each other out properly as the only realistic choice....other than continuing ldr with the same uncertainties.

 

I understand that you have moved before and been disappointed but that man told you before you moved that he would leave you behind. The situations are not the same.

If you want answers quickly, move there and in with him. Yep, in with him. You are both adults and hypothetically know what you want and not playing house with hidden agendas.

You would be moving in with explicit guidelines of marriage within a reasonable time frame...period.

 

If after you are living together incompatibilities become clear, move on. There really is no other way to know for certain one way or the other. If you lived within proximity, living together first would be off the table.

With you in CA and he in LA....it's fair to say that this is an extenuating circumstance and one that allows for flexibility.

 

If it is too frightful a risk Venus, that is your choice and understandable. However, without a move, the relationship has an expiration date.

If you were to decide to stay where you are and not go...will you always wonder what could have been?

[venusishername]

And then there are times when I decide that "fear does not control me. I face it so as to control it".

"Man up" - either **** or get off the pot for yourself . . . women should hold themselves to the same expectations that they have for men in certain circumstances.

Long distance becomes the chicken game -- see who blinks first . . . It's usually a game where there are no winners . . .

Alright, thank you for that. I know I need to just man up and do it for myself. You are right. It is my choice, not based on him or anyone else. I'm not helpless or powerless. I know. Fear is holding me back.

I like what you said about the chicken game. I realize it's going to have to be me to 'blink' first. I told him earlier today that I wish I could be with him, how I feel helpless that there's nothing I can do at this moment. He said the same thing you are, "don't be helpless". Huh, you are right.

 

Drop the expectations, or else communicate them perfectly clearly and stand by your position.

Don't throw yourself under the bus. But please stop manipulating him.

Ok, here's the thing though. How can I "drop the expectations" when I want marriage, etc? Wouldn't giving up my expectations mean sacrificing what I want?

My only choice is I must communicate them perfectly clearly and stand by my position. I don't mean to or want to manipulate him. I realize that it's not practical, smart, etc. etc. to get engaged and promise our lives to each other before we spend time in the day to day same city. I know. It's just scary to make a move. Especially considering my past. For NO guarantee.. the difference this time will be that I communicate my expectations clearly (because they are different now than they were when I was 24) and stand by them.

Here are my expectations by moving there: that we do or do not determine we want to get married by next year at this time. Does that seem reasonable? If we are living in the same city, I would think 2 years of dating, 1 year (a little less) in the same city, we should know by then. At least I will. I just can't be in a relationship for years and years again, that is not resulting in marriage. I just can't. I won't! My expectation is by the end of 2017, provided I move there and things are going well, it's time to put a ring on it and plan a wedding very soon or move back to CA and break up. Fair?

This is how his history affects your relationship.

You come at this from the perspective that you moved for a bf before, it didn't work out, and now you are hesitant to repeat that mistake.

He's coming from the perspective that he proposed and married too quickly, it ended badly, and now he is hesitant to repeat that mistake.

Totally agree, and he says exactly that (about himself). I don't think knowing, dating, and living together and getting married in under 2 years was "too quickly", but I see where he could be coming from, to hesitate, mainly because he got divorced, not because it was too quickly. Just like it wasn't living with my ex, it was that I was living with a ****ty person who took off on me more than once. 5 years later and I still hate that guy. I thought I forgave him but I never did. I resent him very much. BUT- that bad experience made me a hell of a lot stronger, I learned boundaries in all my relationships. I don't allow people to put me down anymore and walk all over me. I get defensive sometimes, because of this. I think I have done this unfairly with my current bf.. but he seems to realize I'm carrying some baggage too. He seems willing to carry it

 

 

However, I do know that he's for sure considering marriage with me. I just don't know if it's soon and if it's for certain going to happen. I do know that it shouldn't/can't/won't or isn't advisable to happen before we live in the same city. I guess I'm just more black and white. I either know something or I don't, I'm in love or I'm not. I don't need time when I make a decision, my decision is usually always final and can't be swayed. I ended my two long term relationships. I cut the relationships off like a light switch. (well, externally). There was no going back, even though they tried like hell. Once I make up my mind, that's it. I realize not everyone is like that. But my point is, I just don't think it should take too long. For me it is a conscientious and thought out decision, but I am very clear on how I feel and what I want. Actually one of my biggest pet peeves is wishy-washiness. Here I am, being wishy washy. Getting there. Once I make a decision I'm going with it.

 

No, I mean, demanding/expecting a ring is pressuring and manipulating. No one likes to feel trapped or cornered. That is not the way to establish and build a relationship.

 

I really don't know whether he is or isn't taking it as seriously as you are. I can, however, "walk around in his shoes" a little too. If I were a man, who really cared for a woman and was considering marrying her and under these conditions, I would be hesitant and want to have more of an opportunity to evaluate the woman on a deeper, more "revealing" way. And, you should give yourself that opportunity to evaluate him more closely without pressure and expectations.

 

And, I'll say this, the reason you are going through so much mental and emotional anguish is simply that you do not know him well enough. You haven't been able to establish a firm foundation of trust and security with him. That can't happen until you spend more time together.

 

My statement is kinda about the Meatloaf song -- Paradise by the dashboard light . . . in the heat of the moment the girl is taunting him, getting him worked up and demanding that he tell her he loves, will he love her til the end of time . . . he caves under the pressure and tells her he loves her and then marries her. After they've been together for a while, he's praying for the end of time. He took the vow he made in that car seriously and married her . . . he wasn't happy and I doubt very much that she was.

 

I wouldn't buy a house without a tour and an inspection. All I'm really trying to point out is that you are mistaken if you think he's not going through some of the same mental gymnastics you are. There is never a guarantee -- ever. Even an engagement ring will not guarantee that a marriage would take place.

 

Venus, I think you would be rowing this boat with any man you date and get to this point, even if it weren't long-distance.

 

Do what YOU want to do, move-don't move, but make that decision for you without trying to manipulate him. Even if he gives you a ring, because you tell him you won't move there without it, I guarantee that you will be questioning whether he gave you that ring because he really wanted to. You'll be on another path of questioning and wondering.

Ok, let's drop the idea of me demanding a ring before I move. I'm not giving him an ultimatum. Not sure exactly why people think I'm demanding a ring. I've never asked any such thing!! What a proposal would do is show me that he's very serious about committing and I'm not moving there just to be a forever girlfriend..... .You know, some people get into relationships because they just want to pass the time, they have no intentions to take it to the next level. This has happened to all of us. This has happened to me. I'm not demanding that he give me a ring or else I won't move out there. I just hate to go with no IDEA if his intentions are in align with mine. The time frame, the intentions, the goals, etc.

You are right that he wants to evaluate the day to day stuff, that we can't see so far apart. And so do I. He has already said that to me, like we need to know the 'little things'.

 

And by the way, despite the fact that I'm not demanding a ring, I freaking love the Meatloaf reference. Now I'm going to have to listen to that song. It's been awhile!! Thanks for that

 

Venus, I doubt your boyfriend can be easily manipulated into getting a ring. He seems like a sincere person, just lacking your sense of urgency. So I wouldn't project what others have suggested that he would grow to resent you for getting engaged under pressure. He's working on his time table while you have yours.

 

Since you are feeling badly it's time for a "come to Jesus" conversation where you both lay your cards on the table. Ideally in person.

 

Come right out and ask him if he can see himself married to you within a year. That if he drags it out any longer that is a deal breaker and you won't take the risk. Ask does he want kids within two years. No more beating around the bush waiting for some grand jesture from him. You tell him what you want and when you want it. You love him. He loves you. You've had a year to communicate and several in person overnight visits. I believe that's enough to know. Get the answers you want or move on. Trying to understand his baggage or guess his motivations will drive you crazy and prolong the process.

 

Now it would be different if you had other reasons to move there, for example looking for a new adventure/expanding your horizons for the sake of new experiences, but clearly your motivations for going there are 100% for him so be 100% sure that the two of you are on the same page. The only way you can be sure is to have a very clear conversation about your intentions. The long term outcome is never guaranteed (you may ultimately be incompatible) but your intentions and goals at the beginning should be crystal clear.

Right. I think it is a come to Jesus moment and it must be in person. I told him this tonight and said I am looking into the logistics for the move but I feel we need to talk in person about some things (these things). This needs to happen (and would be best) when he gets here in November. He said he promises (that he's coming then).

Alright, I'm feeling good about it. I need to communicate my expectations crystal clear, I realize neither one of us can commit right this moment for forever and ever to work out, but yes, I have to say what I want, which is exactly what you said:

"Come right out and ask him if he can see himself married to you within a year. That if he drags it out any longer that is a deal breaker and you won't take the risk. Ask does he want kids within two years."

So let me get this clear- I tell/ask him this BEFORE I move. Several things could happen.

1. He could say he can't promise anything yet, let's see what happens.

Would I still move? Or move and leave if the time lapsed/didn't work out?

2. He says no, I don't want to/can't commit to planning to marry within a year. I don't want to plan for another child and can't commit to that." Then I wouldn't move. Am I getting this right?

So my move would be based on his response when we have this come to Jesus moment.

My friend suggested I ask him, "how long do you expect me to live there with no commitment? Meaning marriage. I could ask him that. It's pretty much what you are saying, except leaving it on him to offer the first timeframe. If he says he doesn't know, or years, etc....

then what? deal breaker??

 

 

There is only one way to answer this question Venus....in a ldr relationship. You are going to have to move there to have an answer.

 

You aren't too old at 32 to make a move and take the chance. Thirty two is not an age on the threshold of dusty but your continued self assessment as such is very anxious.

 

If you are unable to take an extended leave/sabbatical from work to 'live' with him a bit, then you'll have to take the risk or leave it. You both need to have sustained physical contact in order for this relationship to either progress or terminate. If he were the type to throw all in and propose at this point, he would have done so.

This really does leave moving there and sussing each other out properly as the only realistic choice....other than continuing ldr with the same uncertainties.

 

I understand that you have moved before and been disappointed but that man told you before you moved that he would leave you behind. The situations are not the same.

If you want answers quickly, move there and in with him. Yep, in with him. You are both adults and hypothetically know what you want and not playing house with hidden agendas.

You would be moving in with explicit guidelines of marriage within a reasonable time frame...period.

 

If after you are living together incompatibilities become clear, move on. There really is no other way to know for certain one way or the other. If you lived within proximity, living together first would be off the table.

With you in CA and he in LA....it's fair to say that this is an extenuating circumstance and one that allows for flexibility.

 

If it is too frightful a risk Venus, that is your choice and understandable. However, without a move, the relationship has an expiration date.

If you were to decide to stay where you are and not go...will you always wonder what could have been?

I'm not moving in with him. I know everyone feels differently about this, and I get about 75% of the vote to move in with him from you all and everyone else who knows about it, but this is my decision. I firmly believe that you do not have to live together before committing to marriage. Call me old fashioned, call me straightforward, but me personally, I know what I want and living together does NOT seal the deal as to whether I want to marry that person. I've had two times before to know this about myself.

The only woman he ever dated long term that he has lived with is his ex wife. So I think in his mind he wants to repeat that behavior because he feels for some reason it's necessary because he did it with her. I think maybe he thinks that is what he "should" do or something. I don't feel it's necessary. We could easily live in the same city and still know that we do or we don't want to get married. I know a lot of couples who did not live together before marriage. And you know what? In my opinion they seem to have the strongest marriages and have had longevity. My family is conservative and as I get older, so am I. The good thing is my bf comes from the South and he has very strong family values and good morals, and he is also pretty conservative in values. So he would understand and appreciate my boundary and personal belief, even if he doesn't really like it, or thinks it's foolish. I've learned that hard way (twice) that living with a boyfriend does not lead to marriage, if he doesn't want to marry you and vice versa. I need to know we want to and are going to (or not) before we live together. That is all.

 

Yes. If I didn't go I would always wonder what if. I need to talk to him in person, that's what needs to happen. He will have to get here and we need to spend time alone and have this conversation. Maybe part of me is afraid he's going to say something I don't want to hear. Maybe he can't promise anything right this moment, which I think is what he may say, but let's find out. That wouldn't be the answer I'm looking for either. But I would need to know that his intentions are similar to mine, although they may not be on the same timetable. I do think this is true. I'm more in a rush than he is, although he was rushing to move in together after 8 months of long distance dating...

And yes, I'm only moving to LA for this relationship and not to just make a change and see what else is out there for me. I would prefer not to uproot my life (I can't return to my job or my home if I leave), unless a stroke of luck... so I want to be as sure as possible that my intentions are aligned with his.

I guess I'm going to have to wait until he gets here to have this conversation and I will report back on what he says here, then, if I'm understanding correctly, based on whether our intentions are in alignment, decide to move or not. It would be real stupid of me to think he would change his mind if I move there.

For the time being, I don't know when this sit down Come to Jesus conversation's gonna happen yet. My hope is that it is within a month's time, like he says, early November. We just need to see each other face to face. I think it's the only way.

Edited October 16, 2016 by venusishername

[Timshel]

Ok, fair enough. For the record, I am also conservative regarding relationships and not a person to suggest living together lightly. With your timetable and desire to understand the possibilities of your relationship in short order....living together seems the best solution.

I do understand and respect your reasons to not co-habitat, despite my opinion that you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Has he set a time for his next visit?

[GemmaUK]

The problem with deciding to have a conversation about marriage and children is that you two don't know each other well enough yet for that to be an absolute.

 

I would lay bets on that there will be no move in January.

 

If it were me I would give it another year and within that time go stay in NOLA on my own terms for a couple of weeks but doing normal dates, set up some voluntary work for yourself - or stay with him those two weeks but again have voluntary work planned.

 

No dig days out, just day to day living.

 

But, you don't want to give it another year because by that time you want to be engaged and or married and planning babies or being pregnant.

He is not ready for your time frame - not at all ready.

[Redhead14]

Ok, let's drop the idea of me demanding a ring before I move. I'm not giving him an ultimatum. Not sure exactly why people think I'm demanding a ring. I've never asked any such thing!! What a proposal would do is show me that he's very serious about committing and I'm not moving there just to be a forever girlfriend..... .You know, some people get into relationships because they just want to pass the time, they have no intentions to take it to the next level. This has happened to all of us. This has happened to me. I'm not demanding that he give me a ring or else I won't move out there. I just hate to go with no IDEA if his intentions are in align with mine. The time frame, the intentions, the goals, etc.

You are right that he wants to evaluate the day to day stuff, that we can't see so far apart. And so do I. He has already said that to me, like we need to know the 'little things'.

 

And by the way, despite the fact that I'm not demanding a ring, I freaking love the Meatloaf reference. Now I'm going to have to listen to that song. It's been awhile!! Thanks for that

Ok, let's drop the idea of me demanding a ring before I move. I'm not giving him an ultimatum -- No, you have not directly demanded a ring from him, but you are doing that "in your head". That's what you are saying you wish/expect him to do in order for your to feel comfortable enough to make the move. You've created a stand off in your head.

 

The only thing you can and must do in order to make this decision, is get clarity from him about where he sees himself in a couple of years in terms of marriage and children and if all that is at least close to your goals and you care enough for him now to decide to make the leap.

 

Like I said earlier, you don't really know him on a deep enough level to really be able to assess how he makes you feel on a regular basis so as to trust your gut about him or trust him. In other words, if you're there, observing daily/regularly, you'll have a much better sense if things are going in the direction you want them to.

 

But, for now, it's a leap of faith that you take for YOURSELF to give yourself the opportunity to see if this blossoms after you've invested so much time and emotional/mental energy in this man already. Your long-term goal for moving would be marrying him, but focus on shorter-term goals at first -- finding a new and exciting job, exploring your independence in new city and creating a new life for yourself. If you cannot see yourself being on your own and completely secure and independent somewhere else, then don't make the move. The marriage might not happen, but if it didn't, you'd still have a lot going for you to fall back on -- a cushion so to speak, if you focus on you first and the marriage second.

[introverted1]

With regard to the Come to Jesus discussion...

 

I don't think it's reasonable for him to know now that he wants to marry you, but I think it IS reasonable for him to know that this is his hope and plan -- that he wants you in NOLA for the purpose of determining compatibility so you two can marry within X amount of time. Yes, it could turn out that the compatibility isn't there, but he should be seeing what you are at this point -- that it's a "go" unless something to make it a "no" comes up, as opposed to it all being a giant "maybe."

 

Similarly, with the issue of children (or one child), he should be able to say that he will want another child if he remarries. Or that he won't. Personally, I think every couple having sex should have a conversation about pregnancy and make sure they are on the same page. Because sometimes birth control fails and that's not the time to find out that you are in vastly different places on this issue.

[lana-banana]

However the marriage discussion ends, and I think you guys may have a much easier time finding common ground than you expect, you need a crystal clear commitment on the children issue. This is an area where the age (not to mention life stage) difference is more likely to be a problem. He is 42, already with two grown children, and isn't in a comfortable place financially. The odds of him being ready for kids in a year or two seem slim to none. "Open to it" and "maybe" just aren't good enough when it's something you know you want.

 

Good luck, Venus. Don't be coy, don't use weasel words, and don't back down. Lay all your cards on the table and see what happens.

[Sometymeswhy]

However the marriage discussion ends, and I think you guys may have a much easier time finding common ground than you expect, you need a crystal clear commitment on the children issue. This is an area where the age (not to mention life stage) difference is more likely to be a problem. He is 42, already with two grown children, and isn't in a comfortable place financially. The odds of him being ready for kids in a year or two seem slim to none. "Open to it" and "maybe" just aren't good enough when it's something you know you want.

 

Good luck, Venus. Don't be coy, don't use weasel words, and don't back down. Lay all your cards on the table and see what happens.

 

 

And don't accept weasel words from him either. Your goal is to be married/engaged in a year or so with children to follow in a year or two afterwards. That is what you want with him or with someone else. Hopefully with him but if he doesn't envision this for himself or if he is wishywashy then you will need to determine if the risk is one worth taking.

 

The point is you may be in love. You may be compatible...or not ultimately. But you must be in sync as far as your life goals. One way to put it to him is "Mr. X, could you see yourself married again and having a child in the next two years presuming you were with the right woman?" And the answer is yes, absolutely, then proceed to the next step.

 

However if he says he's not sure or let's see how it goes when you get here or something wishywashy like that then you are putting yourself at risk of dragging out status quo. You can put a timeline on it but think how hard it will be to end it as you become more and more attached while he drags his feet on marriage and children and pressures you to move in with him instead.