When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

However the marriage discussion ends, and I think you guys may have a much easier time finding common ground than you expect, you need a crystal clear commitment on the children issue. This is an area where the age (not to mention life stage) difference is more likely to be a problem. He is 42, already with two grown children, and isn't in a comfortable place financially. The odds of him being ready for kids in a year or two seem slim to none. "Open to it" and "maybe" just aren't good enough when it's something you know you want.

Good luck, Venus. Don't be coy, don't use weasel words, and don't back down. Lay all your cards on the table and see what happens.

Yeah, I won’t know or feel more comfortable about this until we speak in person. Early to mid November is being planned on his end, not concrete yet due to new work contracts/schedules. He says today that this week (today/tomorrow) he will know.

Sometimes I worry he’s not going to come. It’s been over a month since we saw each other, and have no concrete date that I will see him again. This is all because I used up all my PTO this year. I have to depend on him to get out here. He says ‘of course’ and he’s thinking Veteran’s Day weekend would be the best bet. I’ll miss his birthday, and you know, he may not be able to come due to work. I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving unless we have this conversation face to face. I need to see him asap.

With regard to the Come to Jesus discussion...

 

I don't think it's reasonable for him to know now that he wants to marry you, but I think it IS reasonable for him to know that this is his hope and plan -- that he wants you in NOLA for the purpose of determining compatibility so you two can marry within X amount of time. Yes, it could turn out that the compatibility isn't there, but he should be seeing what you are at this point -- that it's a "go" unless something to make it a "no" comes up, as opposed to it all being a giant "maybe."

Similarly, with the issue of children (or one child), he should be able to say that he will want another child if he remarries. Or that he won't. Personally, I think every couple having sex should have a conversation about pregnancy and make sure they are on the same page. Because sometimes birth control fails and that's not the time to find out that you are in vastly different places on this issue.

I agree with you, and I think that ‘shared idea’ that I would like to establish before I put in my notice, etc. I need to know he is intending on it, like in the near future. I need to know this before I go anywhere.

I already know he’s not in a rush at all, in fact he’s quite uneasy about having another child. He already has enough trouble with his oldest adult child, who is 21, almost 22 now. Not sure he’d be real gung-ho to make more babies. I already know that. But I know that he would like to be married, but he’s already been there done that so of course he’s not on the same timeframe as me.

 

The only thing you can and must do in order to make this decision, is get clarity from him about where he sees himself in a couple of years in terms of marriage and children and if all that is at least close to your goals and you care enough for him now to decide to make the leap.

Like I said earlier, you don't really know him on a deep enough level to really be able to assess how he makes you feel on a regular basis so as to trust your gut about him or trust him. In other words, if you're there, observing daily/regularly, you'll have a much better sense if things are going in the direction you want them to.

But, for now, it's a leap of faith that you take for YOURSELF to give yourself the opportunity to see if this blossoms after you've invested so much time and emotional/mental energy in this man already. Your long-term goal for moving would be marrying him, but focus on shorter-term goals at first -- finding a new and exciting job, exploring your independence in new city and creating a new life for yourself. If you cannot see yourself being on your own and completely secure and independent somewhere else, then don't make the move. The marriage might not happen, but if it didn't, you'd still have a lot going for you to fall back on -- a cushion so to speak, if you focus on you first and the marriage second.

I see what you mean as far as putting me first and the marriage second. I can go into it knowing my own personal expectation and also of course being sure that he is on the same or very similar page. This is tough stuff.

Ok, fair enough. For the record, I am also conservative regarding relationships and not a person to suggest living together lightly. With your timetable and desire to understand the possibilities of your relationship in short order....living together seems the best solution.

You and a couple others say the same thing, including one of my closest friends. But I stand firm to this. There is really something to be said about courting, I think. Living together would steal that away.

I’m not willing to live with him until he gives me a real commitment. *RING*. My moving there gives him an opportunity to date me, and vice versa. Living apart gives ME the flexibility and independence to LEAVE EASIER if it doesn’t work out and/or it doesn’t progress in my time frame. There are many reasons why I feel living apart (in the same city) will still give us plenty of opportunity to date as we need to be sure we want to marry.

[venusishername]

And don't accept weasel words from him either. Your goal is to be married/engaged in a year or so with children to follow in a year or two afterwards. That is what you want with him or with someone else. Hopefully with him but if he doesn't envision this for himself or if he is wishywashy then you will need to determine if the risk is one worth taking.

The point is you may be in love. You may be compatible...or not ultimately. But you must be in sync as far as your life goals. One way to put it to him is "Mr. X, could you see yourself married again and having a child in the next two years presuming you were with the right woman?" And the answer is yes, absolutely, then proceed to the next step.

However if he says he's not sure or let's see how it goes when you get here or something wishywashy like that then you are putting yourself at risk of dragging out status quo. You can put a timeline on it but think how hard it will be to end it as you become more and more attached while he drags his feet on marriage and children and pressures you to move in with him instead.

I really liked this post so I wanted to comment. So far, by the way, his new work contract has prevented him from booking a flight, but he promises it will be in November, likely over Vets’ Day but the new job is dictating the schedule. There’s not much he can do right now. Hopefully he will know soon, otherwise it looks like we may not see each other until Thanksgiving. I’m already missing his birthday. Sucks. I guess it’s come the time to stop the flying across the country. Our work schedules are preventing us from seeing each other now.

 

I also decided to apply for a small car loan and buy a new used car that is reliable (mine is on its last leg) with the thought that I would drive it across the country. Going to test drive one from a private seller this weekend and will get loan info by end of week. My goal is to get the new car by end of this year. My bf said he would be happy to fly out here, help me move, and drive back to Louisiana. That would be so great, I’m glad he offered, that would be incredibly helpful. I think that would be a good ‘contribution’ on his part for my move. Of course he is still trying to convince me to move in. He’s not listening to me.

I’m getting more excited about the move, less hesitant. Of course, CA is beautiful, but it’s not the end all be all. In fact, sometimes I find my life is pretty dull and empty. I have good friends, I stay busy enough, I am close to my parents, I have a nice little place with everything just how I like it, but at the end of the day, my life is lonely. I’m alone. I don’t want to live with a roommate at my age. The only reason I do it is because I can afford to live in a beautiful location and can travel and support my lifestyle. I could live on my own, but I couldn’t do much else if I stayed here. Now I’m going to be adding to my debt with a used car. My bf has said that if we lived together it would allow me to save all the money on rent, and instead pay off my loans and save some too. He’s right. I would like to do that when we’re married. That would be a ‘fringe benefit’ of me moving there. I am willing to move there and live with him UNTIL AND ONLY UNTIL I get my first paycheck so that I can afford to get my own place. I’m guessing that will be a short term rental, like an Airbnb monthly or sublet. I will be keeping all my belongings except clothes in storage in CA. That’s another expense I need to factor in. I think he was under the impression that I’d be selling my furniture. But I told him clearly that wasn’t going to happen. I paid good money for my furniture and I’m keeping all of it, someday it may be in his house anyway! If I move in, we’re getting rid of all his piecemeal furnishings I wanted to store my things until I had a permanent location nailed down. In the event that some day soon I DO live in his house, I need my own furniture. I’m going to have to take charge of that place and redecorating since that’s my thing. He can have control over the car repairs, home repairs, remodeling, yard work and gardening. I’d like to be in charge of the home, cooking and decorating, etc. That is my domain and I enjoy being a domestic goddess. My furniture and decorating is out of a magazine, he’s got no clue what he’s doing (!) so there’s no way I’m giving up my Z Gallerie living room set! With or without him!

 

Another issue is my cat. She obviously would have to travel across the country in the car (ugh). I’m not willing to part with her. He has already said he is happy to have her at his house. But when I get my own place, I’d have to leave her at his place (where I’ll be visiting all the time anyway), or find a place that she can go with me… which will be difficult. The biggest feat is getting her across the country. A plane ride would be easier.

 

As for our “Come to Jesus” conversation, I just need to have him here in person to have that conversation. Right now I am very frustrated that it has been over a month and we haven’t seen each other and he can’t know his schedule yet, and I can’t go anywhere. It’s already almost November and I’m beginning to wonder if his new work schedule will be interfering with our plans. I will have the whole house open and to myself for almost two weeks mid-November, it would be a shame if he can’t come then, because that would be perfect.

[SleeplessIn]

About traveling with your cat by car ... it's not that difficult, really. We moved our cat with us from NC to AZ this way: bought a collapsible wire dog crate, bought a few disposable litter pans (they fit in the back of the crate), put a folded towel in the front of the crate for comfy sleeping. Kept cat in crate for the trip, she used the litter pan and we just pitched it in the trash at rest stops.

 

Some smaller bungee cords connecting the crate to the seat kept the crate from sliding around. She did just fine!

[No_Go]

You sound great, determined.

 

Regarding the cat: I think flying would be much better unless she is used to being in a car. My own cat freaks out so much in even very short drives that it will be a no go ... Maybe you can 'train' her to be in the car a few times so she can get used to it?

 

Look forward to hearing about the next visit when defined.

[venusishername]

I don't have an update about our next visit.. things keep getting put on hold. But it will be in November. He had some snafus with the work schedule and of course I understand, money and work schedules are going to get in the way of our visits sometimes. It's the reason I can't go there this time. He offered to pay for me to come there over Veteran's Day weekend but the cost is so high compared to the price for him to come here, so it wouldn't make sense to pay that much for me to go there for three days. In any case, it is in the works. I told him it's ok if it is later in the month, if it has to wait a couple more weeks that's ok. Work is more important. It's just a disappointment.

 

I am making small steps in the direction to make the move. I still need to have a sit down, one on one, ideally here in my house with no distractions (that's why I was hoping Vet's Day weekend would be happening), before I pull the plug and move to Louisiana. We need to have the 'come to Jesus' talk. I know for sure he is serious about the relationship. He's not dragging his feet to make plans to come here because he's having second thoughts or he's not committed. It costs a couple hundred to travel, money to spend going out (at least some of the time), and money lost for him not working or not being available to go into work for a couple days. I am in the same position, I can't afford to go there if I was paying for it. I also don't have the time off, now he is waiting on his work to come through, it's a waiting game... it sucks. But I'm sure it will happen as soon as he can make it. I just had the idea that that long weekend would be perfect to be alone and have the house to ourselves. Anyway, we will see.

 

On another note, I got approved for a car loan and am selling my car, I have listed for sale, I'm planning to sell it and buy a newer used car that I could be able to drive safely across the country. I would need to store all my things in those 'PODS' and then decide whether to move permanently and have all my things shipped over, or come back and have everything all packed up and ready to be unloaded again here into my new place, alone, back in CA... if it didn't work out.

 

I know I need to go there to really give this a chance. But I need to know, like we've been talking about here, whether he sees engagement/marriage within the next year, and the child issue. I really do feel that having children is not as important as being married. I want to be married before having a child. I already know he feels the same about that. I just don't think he's on my timeframe, meaning he's not as eager and ready as I am, because he's not too long been divorced. It's not that he doesn't want marriage (I know he does), but he needs to know that I'm not waiting around for 2,3,4+ years to decide if we want to get married. I still hold firm in getting my own place too. I would move there initially into his house for a month, or until I got a job and income.

 

 

I would have all my things in storage, which sucks, but at least I'd know that I could have it again soon. Whether it be there, or back here. If one day I did move in with him, I wouldn't be moving in as a girlfriend, I'd be moving in as a wife or soon to be wife, and I'd have more of a pull on the home décor and household decisions (I think). Then I'd move my furniture and belongings in. But not until then.

 

He told me tonight in a cute message that he thinks I will be a good wife. How he loves to see me send pictures of me smiling, it makes him happy to see me smile. He's a good man. Sometimes I wonder though, is he the right man for ME, though. There are things that I've mentioned all along since I've met him, they're not personality defects or anything good or bad necessarily... it's just the two adult kids, one living with him, the lack of a regular steady stream of income from one employer (as I've seen he either is on his own contract or works for the union which does not last long necessarily but is good money), not so good with managing money, no formal education, he is settled in his ways, he seems satisfied with what he has and doesn't work towards more, his own home that he buys, etc. Although he says he would like to do that WITH me..... I guess I just mean, he is who he is.... and he's a good man with a heart of gold, and he worships the ground I walk on and would always have my back. We get along great and are best friends and are loving and show each other respect at all times. It's a healthy relationship. I guess I'm just not sure if I can imagine my life with him, or anyone for the commitment of marriage. I guess we need to just find out. It's scary, for me to commit so much. It's like... you think, "what if I'm making the wrong decision? What if I'm passing up a better opportunity (that I haven't even encountered yet?), what if after living in the same city I hate the place and we start fighting and fall out of love, etc.?"

 

Someone here asked me a page back or so, "how much are you willing to gamble?" Yes, that is the question. The thing is, I know no matter what, I'd be ok. If he turns out to be the wrong guy for me, and if another year goes by and I'm living there and we just don't see eye to eye on the long term stuff, etc... then I mean, that's no one's fault. It wouldn't be the most terrible thing. It happens all the time and sometimes it only takes time to find out. If I move there and both of us decide we just can't see marrying each other, or he doesn't propose and move forward, or if I'm just not happy there and want to go back... then that will be ok too.

It's hard to picture something in the future, you know?? We can try, but you just don't really know until you do it.

 

I know he loves me a lot, and I love him. The thought of how sweet he is, as eccentric and goofy and flawed as he is... at his core he is a very good man and I think would be a good husband. Sometimes my heart fills with so much love and joy when I think of him or some of the things he says and does, even earlier he sent me this cute picture of us the last time I was there. He thinks about me constantly. And vice versa. All weekend I've been lounging at home and lazy, barely left the house. Didn't put on makeup since work on Friday. And he was out with friends last night and I was happy to be in bed watching Netflix. And he said he would much rather be home in bed with me watching TV than anything else. We even pretended we went to the movies on Friday night 'together'. He went to a movie, by himself, I was planning to go with a friend but she backed out, but I thought it was so cute (and kinda sad) that we were pretending to go on a date to the movies. That's how obvious it is now that we want (and need) to be together, right?!!?

 

The things I mentioned all along though, are things that COULD be an issue in our future. I'll be honest, the fact that he doesn't have a regular employment, I'm talking like a steady, consistent paycheck biweekly that is the same amount all the time, there have been bouts since I've dated him that he doesn't have work for a couple weeks at time. Even now he is waiting on something to follow through with another contract coming up. His own kids have made remarks to me about that. This is not new behavior. This is his norm. It will not change if I move there, and it won't change if I marry him. He works hard and likes to work, it's not that he would be lazy or a deadbeat. (My ex was, so that's a big fear for me again). His son said something about 'job hopping', and his daughter mentioned that she thinks his divorce was his fault because his ex wife didn't like that he didn't have that steady income and job reliability. I think, from what I have seen, sometimes he works all weekend, or he makes his own schedule so he stays to finish the job and that could be coming home after 8 p.m., etc. Sometimes the union jobs are 10-12 hour days, sometimes, he's looking for more work, or the next contract. I mean, I get it. It's a big factor that causes me uncertainty.

In my field, I'm always going to have insurance, a steady paycheck, benefits, 401k, etc. In his- only if working a union contract. And since I've known him, his union contracts don't last. They're lucky if they are 6 months. This is what he is/was hoping to get recently, which has been holding him from making these travel plans too. So my point is, this is a worry that I have, if we were married and a couple and have a child. There may be TIMES that I must be the breadwinner, but not going to be all the time. I don't want to support both of us or feel like he can't be dependable. Do you know what I mean? It's an unknown... because I don't know how that will affect US. I know how it affects HIM, but not US. The only way I'd know that is if I lived with him and married him, I think. Is it cause for me to end the relationship? Sometimes the thought has crossed my mind. I'm not sure if I could or would be able to handle that unreliability. I'm not sure I would want to or have the patience. I don't have to settle for that. I know lots of guys here who have good jobs and a steady stream of income and are accomplished, educated, and have all their ducks in a row and could offer me a lot more materially and financially than he can. But there's no guarantee I'd ever meet and fall in love with these imaginary men out there. Financial security is a really big factor in choosing husband material. He is lacking in that. He makes things work, he gets by, he has what he needs and he is content with his lifestyle, etc. This is not a personal flaw or good or bad. It's just something I consider when I'm evaluating whether he would be a good choice for me as a husband.

 

 

I recognize that my initial worry about the money management is definitely something that we can work on together, if we were married. Also, he says things like he needs someone like me. I'm so organized and down to earth, he's eccentric and scatterbrained and easily distracted... he's always wanted someone like me to help keep him grounded. And I'm glad he can see that, because I would be that kind of partner. And he can help show me to not take life so seriously and to be light. I really do think that as a couple we could make that part work. He's already talking about working together to save money to buy a new car or buy a condo or small house in the future. If we were together, yes, I think that would happen and seems more realistic than just talking about it long distance. It's hard to make those plans across the country, let alone put them into action.

 

 

So- I mean, there are some roadblocks for me to be moving there. I know I would talk with him before moving out, to be sure we are on the same page, or at the very least the 'next' page (!) and then be aware of these issues or concerns I have, within a year's time from now, I already have decided that if we decide it's not working out, or if one of us isn't ready for the next step, (I think 2 years of dating is plenty of time to know you want to marry or not, and be making concrete plans to marry imminently)... then I'll come back home. Or. I could get there, we realize we want to do this, and then do this.. and then we would be in it. And maybe that wouldn't be so bad either. Life is what you make it. And I want to take control of my life here.

 

Of course I live my place and all my things and having my comforts and job security and all that. And I'm very close with my parents. I have awesome girlfriends here. I would miss them so much. That is hard to leave. But I have a chance to be with the man I love and who loves me. It may be the wrong decision in the end, or not. We could be very happy together. But I need to move there to find out. This is taking all of my courage.

 

 

Sometimes I get freaked out and the thought passes that I'll just end it and then I get so sad thinking about how it would break his heart and then I imagine myself regretting it in the future. Life is too short. I just need to see him in person first. I will feel a lot better knowing when that will be nailed down.

[venusishername]

Guys, I'm going to do what you have referred to as a "flip flop". I am having serious nagging thoughts and maybe realizations that this may (or may not) not be the right decision for me.

 

He has still not made concrete plans to come here. A couple weeks ago it was ready to go. However he says things are in progress and he’s still planning to make it in November. It is because he needs to be available to work, he got laid off the union contract he had spent weeks training for, this is an indefinite layoff, basically he can get called back at any time when the project is ready to start. All of his work is based on other factors, so in effect he has to wait to start, or continue, many of his jobs. So for the time being, he’s not working. This has been in the past week or so and he’s not happy about it at all. It is also lack of money to spend on a plane ticket and other expenses, not working while he’s gone, etc. I get it, I can’t afford to take unpaid time off or make other travel plans this year, aside from what I already have planned. That’s it for me.

 

I mentioned this in my last post. He does not have a stable and steady job. He’s moving from one to the next and since I’ve known him has been ‘laid off’ (like right now), or not getting a secured income for weeks at a time during the past year. When he’s not with a union contract, (which has been the majority of time I’ve known him) he’s working independently or doing side jobs. The union contracts are short and unreliable. Some, the one he’s been working toward now, are longer, like 6 months, etc. I suppose that is decent enough money but it’s not stable and consistent. However, he seems to be ok with that and has things that he wants, new clothes, can afford Mexico vacations, can buy my plane ticket, buy me jewelry, etc. I mean, the point is, he seems to generally be able to afford day to day wants and needs. So, my dilemma is wondering whether my concern is justified. I’m torn on that.

 

I look at myself, and my work approach is very different. I stay a place of employment for years. I sure don’t make a lot of money compared to some others, but it’s consistent , a decent pay, and I have job security. It’s just me and I realize not everyone is like me, but I thrive on consistency, planning, job security, etc. I need to know that I make the same amount of money every week, no matter what. I left my previous profession because it was commission based and I had no benefits. I just can’t live with that uncertainty.I don’t worry about where my income is coming from because I always have a steady job. He doesn’t.

 

Now, if I live with him, or marry him… this would be an issue that would cause me unease and upset. But- since he makes it work, who am I to judge that isn’t ‘right’? It just isn’t like ME. Would this be a deal breaker? This is what I think about. There are times I’d be the breadwinner. I’d be the one with the job security, the retirement, Social Security, a steady stream. He’s not going to have that. He gets pension and benefits only if he takes a big contract. So, in many times, he will be making more money than I do, at any given time. Otherwise, he doesn’t have that automatically funneling in. I do. Do I want to partner up with someone who isn’t the same as me in that regard? At least I know when I retire I will have savings, and when I die, if I have kids I will be able to leave them my social security, etc. I’m looking ahead 5 years, when I’m working daily and consistently and he’s laid off every couple months. This is not a fluke circumstance. It gets better, I know that, but the bottom line is he doesn’t have a consistent and reliable job. And he doesn’t seem to want to go get a consistent and reliable job. I’m talking like working as a contractor for a company that pays the same or similar every week and has a regular business hours schedule. Like his dad has. His dad owns a company for which my bf has and occasionally does work for. It’s not about money, it’s about consistency. He doesn’t have it. And that bothers me. I wonder if it should though.

 

Many times here we have talked about the child issue. I want to be married and then have a family. I would be perfectly happy being married and having one child, or being married and having a dog if we couldn’t conceive. It’s not my biological clock ticking and needing to have babies. I want a family unit. I would take being married over having a child if I had to choose. I know for sure that he does value marriage and would like to marry again. And I know that he would be happy to have another child. But I don’t see that it is something that he would want to PLAN for. He seems (I don’t know, because we haven’t had this come to Jesus conversation yet because he’s not here yet), to be “open” to the idea but it isn’t something he would necessarily want to actively plan for and work towards. I look at other dads with young children and I try to imagine him pushing a stroller or taking the kid on the back of a bike. I see the way he is with his GROWN children, and he is very close with his son, but he was never around for their day to day early childhood upbringing. I’m talking- he probably never changed a diaper or pushed a stroller or sat down and helped the kids with homework (I’m speculating here). I know he has a lot of difficulty with his daughter and they don’t get along. He loves both his kids but he and his son have a very endearing and loving relationship. But I don’t know how he feels about having a BABY. I’m not talking grown children. Would he abandon me? Would he be a good father and stick around and be present? (I think all women have these fears).

 

He already has two grown children, and he did not have either one of them living with him day to day and he did not actively raise them in their every day lives. This isn’t to say that he COULDN’T do this in the future. He was in different circumstances back then. So if it happened again I can’t look to the past as an example of how it would be. Right?

 

Another thing he mentioned. His daughter is living with him because his FATHER owns the house and the father wants her to be in a good place and close to her school. Daughter appeals to grandpa and my bf thinks he spoils her and she has a bad attitude. My bf and the daughter don’t get along and the living dynamic is not a good one. He complains often and doesn’t know how to discipline her or get her to do her chores. She doesn’t like him and they don’t get along although he tries. So, I think… how would I fit into that dynamic? I wouldn’t be ok with that negative vibe in the house. I’m not sure I’d want to be under grandpa’s rules either. But bf doesn’t seem to mind. He doesn’t do anything about it, he’s contented with the way things are, enough. I asked him why he stays there then, since daughter is such a pain in the butt. He said because he has low rent and the place is comfortable for him and he can also get extra income from Airbnb occasionally if he wants since it’s a large enough property. I just couldn’t imagine this for myself. I wouldn’t want my life to look like that. I couldn’t live in that situation! he wouldn't do the Airbnb if I were there, but I wouldn't put up with a negative living environment with his daughter, in fact I'd say we're moving out and getting our own place. I guess he would rather live there for less and not really be in charge. ? I don't get that.

 

If I was in his position, I'd say screw this, I’ve got my own place, my adult daughter can’t make me feel upset in my own home and no one can tell me how to live my life. I'd make my own home and my own rules. But he doesn't choose to do that. I guess it doesn't bother him that much.

 

He’s a good man, he has a heart of gold, and he loves me. But these lifestyle choices and differing ideas of how we want our life to look…. I’m not sure I would be happy with that. Would it be different if we were doing this together? I’m only seeing it from his perspective, living as a bachelor.

Also, the more and more I think about it… I will absolutely, under no circumstances, live with him before engagement and a wedding date, if it leads there. I read something that perfectly describes how I feel about it, it’s another way of saying “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”. I stand firm.

 

I would greatly appreciate any insights. This is very difficult for me because he is a good man and I do love him. It’s also very hard not knowing the exact date we can sit down face to face. What would you do? I've been feeling so uneasy.

Edited October 25, 2016 by venusishername

[No_Go]

Focus at one step at a time. Now the next step is his next visit. I understand that you can't take time off but maybe you can help him with the cost of the ticket? He has done this for you before it will be nice reciprocation now that he has financial troubles.

 

Regarding the rest... Honestly, I think you either take it or leave. I think he may change his bachelor's lifestyle if you get married, but the employment housing and daughter/father dynamics... I very much doubt he will change these. He is over 40, has lived like this for 20+ years, his father owns the house so he's partially dependent on him... I just don't see how this is going to change.

 

I think the employment situation is not that terrible if you have a steady income to cover recurring expenses like utilities, whereas he can jump in for larger expenses like renovations when he gets a big paycheck. It is workable, if two of you agree on a strategy.

 

For kids... Honestly - if you had 2 kids 20+ and has neglected them, would you want to do t again? He's probably guilty for the past and trying to overcompensate. I highly doubt that he'd want another baby but you may convince him... I don't see it as a 'natural' progression. I think your job first will be to get in very good terms with his kids because their approval/disapproval of you may become a turning stone.

 

Regarding housing - I'd be brutally honest - I don't see him moving, like ever. He has so many strings attached that this will be almost insane move. There are family obligations, there is maintenance obligation, aging father, young adult children, extra stream of income if he aibnb-s rooms ... I just don't see it happening. But in the end, if you marry him you will blend families - you'll need to get adapted to the dynamics of his children and parents, the same way how he'll need to adapt to yours.

 

Again - focus on the next visit - and pls don't get too much into this 'come to Jesus' talk - just because you will get into this visit with huge expectations, your anxiety will show and that's a recipe for disaster...

 

Guys, I'm going to do what you have referred to as a "flip flop". I am having serious nagging thoughts and maybe realizations that this may (or may not) not be the right decision for me.

 

He has still not made concrete plans to come here. A couple weeks ago it was ready to go. However he says things are in progress and he’s still planning to make it in November. It is because he needs to be available to work, he got laid off the union contract he had spent weeks training for, this is an indefinite layoff, basically he can get called back at any time when the project is ready to start. All of his work is based on other factors, so in effect he has to wait to start, or continue, many of his jobs. So for the time being, he’s not working. This has been in the past week or so and he’s not happy about it at all. It is also lack of money to spend on a plane ticket and other expenses, not working while he’s gone, etc. I get it, I can’t afford to take unpaid time off or make other travel plans this year, aside from what I already have planned. That’s it for me.

 

I mentioned this in my last post. He does not have a stable and steady job. He’s moving from one to the next and since I’ve known him has been ‘laid off’ (like right now), or not getting a secured income for weeks at a time during the past year. When he’s not with a union contract, (which has been the majority of time I’ve known him) he’s working independently or doing side jobs. The union contracts are short and unreliable. Some, the one he’s been working toward now, are longer, like 6 months, etc. I suppose that is decent enough money but it’s not stable and consistent. However, he seems to be ok with that and has things that he wants, new clothes, can afford Mexico vacations, can buy my plane ticket, buy me jewelry, etc. I mean, the point is, he seems to generally be able to afford day to day wants and needs. So, my dilemma is wondering whether my concern is justified. I’m torn on that.

 

I look at myself, and my work approach is very different. I stay a place of employment for years. I sure don’t make a lot of money compared to some others, but it’s consistent , a decent pay, and I have job security. It’s just me and I realize not everyone is like me, but I thrive on consistency, planning, job security, etc. I need to know that I make the same amount of money every week, no matter what. I left my previous profession because it was commission based and I had no benefits. I just can’t live with that uncertainty.I don’t worry about where my income is coming from because I always have a steady job. He doesn’t.

 

Now, if I live with him, or marry him… this would be an issue that would cause me unease and upset. But- since he makes it work, who am I to judge that isn’t ‘right’? It just isn’t like ME. Would this be a deal breaker? This is what I think about. There are times I’d be the breadwinner. I’d be the one with the job security, the retirement, Social Security, a steady stream. He’s not going to have that. He gets pension and benefits only if he takes a big contract. So, in many times, he will be making more money than I do, at any given time. Otherwise, he doesn’t have that automatically funneling in. I do. Do I want to partner up with someone who isn’t the same as me in that regard? At least I know when I retire I will have savings, and when I die, if I have kids I will be able to leave them my social security, etc. I’m looking ahead 5 years, when I’m working daily and consistently and he’s laid off every couple months. This is not a fluke circumstance. It gets better, I know that, but the bottom line is he doesn’t have a consistent and reliable job. And he doesn’t seem to want to go get a consistent and reliable job. I’m talking like working as a contractor for a company that pays the same or similar every week and has a regular business hours schedule. Like his dad has. His dad owns a company for which my bf has and occasionally does work for. It’s not about money, it’s about consistency. He doesn’t have it. And that bothers me. I wonder if it should though.

 

Many times here we have talked about the child issue. I want to be married and then have a family. I would be perfectly happy being married and having one child, or being married and having a dog if we couldn’t conceive. It’s not my biological clock ticking and needing to have babies. I want a family unit. I would take being married over having a child if I had to choose. I know for sure that he does value marriage and would like to marry again. And I know that he would be happy to have another child. But I don’t see that it is something that he would want to PLAN for. He seems (I don’t know, because we haven’t had this come to Jesus conversation yet because he’s not here yet), to be “open” to the idea but it isn’t something he would necessarily want to actively plan for and work towards. I look at other dads with young children and I try to imagine him pushing a stroller or taking the kid on the back of a bike. I see the way he is with his GROWN children, and he is very close with his son, but he was never around for their day to day early childhood upbringing. I’m talking- he probably never changed a diaper or pushed a stroller or sat down and helped the kids with homework (I’m speculating here). I know he has a lot of difficulty with his daughter and they don’t get along. He loves both his kids but he and his son have a very endearing and loving relationship. But I don’t know how he feels about having a BABY. I’m not talking grown children. Would he abandon me? Would he be a good father and stick around and be present? (I think all women have these fears).

 

He already has two grown children, and he did not have either one of them living with him day to day and he did not actively raise them in their every day lives. This isn’t to say that he COULDN’T do this in the future. He was in different circumstances back then. So if it happened again I can’t look to the past as an example of how it would be. Right?

 

Another thing he mentioned. His daughter is living with him because his FATHER owns the house and the father wants her to be in a good place and close to her school. Daughter appeals to grandpa and my bf thinks he spoils her and she has a bad attitude. My bf and the daughter don’t get along and the living dynamic is not a good one. He complains often and doesn’t know how to discipline her or get her to do her chores. She doesn’t like him and they don’t get along although he tries. So, I think… how would I fit into that dynamic? I wouldn’t be ok with that negative vibe in the house. I’m not sure I’d want to be under grandpa’s rules either. But bf doesn’t seem to mind. He doesn’t do anything about it, he’s contented with the way things are, enough. I asked him why he stays there then, since daughter is such a pain in the butt. He said because he has low rent and the place is comfortable for him and he can also get extra income from Airbnb occasionally if he wants since it’s a large enough property. I just couldn’t imagine this for myself. I wouldn’t want my life to look like that. I couldn’t live in that situation! he wouldn't do the Airbnb if I were there, but I wouldn't put up with a negative living environment with his daughter, in fact I'd say we're moving out and getting our own place. I guess he would rather live there for less and not really be in charge. ? I don't get that.

 

If I was in his position, I'd say screw this, I’ve got my own place, my adult daughter can’t make me feel upset in my own home and no one can tell me how to live my life. I'd make my own home and my own rules. But he doesn't choose to do that. I guess it doesn't bother him that much.

 

He’s a good man, he has a heart of gold, and he loves me. But these lifestyle choices and differing ideas of how we want our life to look…. I’m not sure I would be happy with that. Would it be different if we were doing this together? I’m only seeing it from his perspective, living as a bachelor.

Also, the more and more I think about it… I will absolutely, under no circumstances, live with him before engagement and a wedding date, if it leads there. I read something that perfectly describes how I feel about it, it’s another way of saying “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”. I stand firm.

 

I would greatly appreciate any insights. This is very difficult for me because he is a good man and I do love him. It’s also very hard not knowing the exact date we can sit down face to face. What would you do? I've been feeling so uneasy.

[clia]

Honestly, you've been worrying about his job situation since the beginning. I bet I could find a post from last October discussing the same issues. His job is what it is; it's time for you to make a decision as to whether you can live with it or not and stick with it. It's not about judging him or whether your concerns are justified. You feel how you feel -- and his situation seems to greatly bother you. If you think it bothers you now, from a distance, how is it going to be when you are married to him and in the middle of it? When he has no income coming in for however long? How will you deal with that uncertainty? Do you think that will cause problems in your relationship? I don't even know you and I think you are going to hate it. I think you might even grow to resent him because of it. And not only the money situation, but his inability to make a plan due to the uncertainty of his job, like the trip he wants to make to see you in November. How do you feel about potentially not being able to plan a vacation properly going forward?

 

Regarding his living situation, that doesn't sound like a great environment for you to move into. How old is his daughter? Any chance she will move out on her own soon? I agree with NoGo -- I don't see him moving. He's got it too good where he is. How do you honestly feel about being stuck in that house? Do you like the house? (I ask because you've mentioned buying a new place. Have you two ever discussed that?)

 

I don't know, venus. It seems like you still have major areas of uncertainty, moreso than I would expect if you are making such a big move. And way more question marks than I would expect out of a long distance relationship where you are talking about making such a major change in your life.

 

I don't blame you for feeling uneasy, though. I'll be honest -- Given all of the issues you've raised about him over the past year (finances, personality, living situation, job, etc.), I think if you lived in the same city as him over the past year, the relationship would never have lasted this long. I know you think he's a good man and he loves you, but you keep bringing up the same things over and over again. (He can still be a good man and love you, but not be the right man for you.) These things obviously bother you a lot. And if they bother you from thousands of miles away, or after spending 3-4 days with him in person, think about what it will be like when you are actually in the same place as him and dealing with it on a daily basis. Of course, you will never know until you live in the same city as him.

[lana-banana]

There wasn't any new information in your post. This isn't a knock on you at all, it's just that these are the exact same issues and anxieties you've had since you began dating. You are no closer to resolving your feelings about this than you were when you started. I agree with Clia: if you guys were actually seeing each other on a day-to-day basis, it would've never lasted this long. You talk about how it must be true love for your relationship to have survived the distance, but it isn't love. The distance has allowed you to keep your problems at bay without ever really confronting them so you stay mired in the same spot.

 

The financial things---you know where I stand on this. Until you get numbers you will never be satisfied. However, it seems you've reached a point where his finances actually aren't the biggest obstacle between you. (But can I at least say his ability to buy you things is in no way an indicator of his financial health? There's a huge difference between what someone can buy and what they can actually pay for at the end of the day.)

 

Another thing he mentioned. His daughter is living with him because his FATHER owns the house and the father wants her to be in a good place and close to her school. Daughter appeals to grandpa and my bf thinks he spoils her and she has a bad attitude. My bf and the daughter don’t get along and the living dynamic is not a good one. He complains often and doesn’t know how to discipline her or get her to do her chores. She doesn’t like him and they don’t get along although he tries. So, I think… how would I fit into that dynamic? I wouldn’t be ok with that negative vibe in the house. I’m not sure I’d want to be under grandpa’s rules either. But bf doesn’t seem to mind. He doesn’t do anything about it, he’s contented with the way things are, enough. I asked him why he stays there then, since daughter is such a pain in the butt. He said because he has low rent and the place is comfortable for him and he can also get extra income from Airbnb occasionally if he wants since it’s a large enough property. I just couldn’t imagine this for myself. I wouldn’t want my life to look like that. I couldn’t live in that situation! he wouldn't do the Airbnb if I were there, but I wouldn't put up with a negative living environment with his daughter, in fact I'd say we're moving out and getting our own place. I guess he would rather live there for less and not really be in charge. ? I don't get that.

 

This living situation doesn't sound ideal for anyone involved. It's definitely not suited for bringing a third party into the mix. Whoever said he was more interested in integrating you into his current life rather than building a life with you was dead-on. He's not going to move to California or even another state to be with you. And to some extent I understand that. This is where the age and life stage difference come back to bite you in the butt. He's 42, he has two grown children, he's completely content with his life the way it is right now. He doesn't want to change. He loves you but he wants you to be a part of his life as it is right now. His head isn't full of blissful dreams for the future. His life is what it is, and what you see is what you get.

 

Now what I see is a grown man with a daughter he struggles to reach, living in a house he doesn't own, still ultimately living off of his father's generosity, and he has zero desire to change that situation in any way. You can't make him want something different; you can't make him aspire to share a brand-new life with you. If his life isn't going to make you happy then you have to walk away.

 

(He can still be a good man and love you, but not be the right man for you.)

 

Venus, this is really important. You have spent so long insisting he's the man for you because he loves you and treats you better than any man ever has, but that's just not enough.

[introverted1]

I agree with Clia: if you guys were actually seeing each other on a day-to-day basis, it would've never lasted this long. You talk about how it must be true love for your relationship to have survived the distance, but it isn't love. The distance has allowed you to keep your problems at bay without ever really confronting them so you stay mired in the same spot.

 

I think the distance has provided emotional highs and lows that have created an illusion of love. True love doesn't product this much anxiety or doubt, imo. Love is calming... centering... not angst-inducing.

 

Being apart has prevented you from ever settling into "normal," which is why many of us have been saying that you need to live in the same city and conduct a more ordinary relationship -- so you can see whether the heightened emotions that come from missing and longing for each other are truly love or something else. In this sense, I think he may be more realistic than you, inasmuch as he seems to realise that he needs much more time together to assess compatibility before he's ready to make a commitment.

[ChickiePops]

So much advice..so little action taken...

[venusishername]

Regarding his living situation, that doesn't sound like a great environment for you to move into. How old is his daughter? Any chance she will move out on her own soon? I agree with NoGo -- I don't see him moving. He's got it too good where he is. How do you honestly feel about being stuck in that house? Do you like the house? (I ask because you've mentioned buying a new place. Have you two ever discussed that?)

 

I don't know, venus. It seems like you still have major areas of uncertainty, moreso than I would expect if you are making such a big move. And way more question marks than I would expect out of a long distance relationship where you are talking about making such a major change in your life.

 

I don't blame you for feeling uneasy, though. I'll be honest -- Given all of the issues you've raised about him over the past year (finances, personality, living situation, job, etc.), I think if you lived in the same city as him over the past year, the relationship would never have lasted this long. I know you think he's a good man and he loves you, but you keep bringing up the same things over and over again. (He can still be a good man and love you, but not be the right man for you.) These things obviously bother you a lot. And if they bother you from thousands of miles away, or after spending 3-4 days with him in person, think about what it will be like when you are actually in the same place as him and dealing with it on a daily basis. Of course, you will never know until you live in the same city as him.

I enjoyed your post, Clia. Thank you. As far as the house, no I wouldn't want to stay there indefinitely. We have actually talked about in the future getting another place together. I think the place is ok, it's in a good neighborhood and it is modest and comfortable. It's alright. I just don't like the idea of it not being our own, or my own, etc. I had a hard time swallowing that he seemed perfectly contented to not change a thing and that he doesn't feel like changing the family dynamic. I mean me, personally, I wouldn't be satisfied with my dad putting down the house rules or not having my own independence. I dunno. I think if we were together and married we probably would be looking for our own place. It's hard to say. If I was living there, then yes I could make the place my own, but the daughter dynamic, it doesn't sound too appealing the way things are. Nothing against her at all, they just don't have a living situation that I really feel all to thrilled about entering. This may change, she will move on, or whatever.

Ok, so you say that you think it wouldn't have lasted this long. It is hard to say, isn't it. Since we haven't lived in the same city it is all speculation, right? So even if I have all these question marks, I guess I have to go there to really find out for sure, don't I? Seems like I already know 'some' things that MAY not be what I'm looking for.... so by going there I would either be proven wrong or proven right, right? I could be wrong. I could be cutting myself off from something good.

 

The distance has allowed you to keep your problems at bay without ever really confronting them so you stay mired in the same spot.

Fair enough. I see that. I wouldn't go so far to say it isn't real love. But it hasn't been the day to day that is necessary to really know for sure, I can see that.

 

Whoever said he was more interested in integrating you into his current life rather than building a life with you was dead-on. He's not going to move to California or even another state to be with you. And to some extent I understand that. This is where the age and life stage difference come back to bite you in the butt. He's 42, he has two grown children, he's completely content with his life the way it is right now. He doesn't want to change. He loves you but he wants you to be a part of his life as it is right now. His head isn't full of blissful dreams for the future. His life is what it is, and what you see is what you get.

You're right. It isn't right or wrong, or a fault of his or mine, it just is what it is. He has a life already made and he's asking me to just join it and everything will work itself out. I have my life already made too, but we both have in common that we want to share our lives with each other. It's scary to give up what you are comfortable with and try something new, something you didn't make for yourself, I'd be out of my element, comfort zone.

You can't make him want something different; you can't make him aspire to share a brand-new life with you. If his life isn't going to make you happy then you have to walk away.

So, I mean, what else can be said then, it is what it is. I can take it or leave it. Who knows, it might turn out to be great. I don't know from a distance.

Venus, this is really important. You have spent so long insisting he's the man for you because he loves you and treats you better than any man ever has, but that's just not enough.

Well, how do you really know for sure that a person is right for you? My oldest friend told me that you just need to be happy and secure, and that's what should guide you. He does make me happy and secure. But we've only been long distance. How that would change if we lived in the same city.... not sure.

I think the distance has provided emotional highs and lows that have created an illusion of love. True love doesn't product this much anxiety or doubt, imo. Love is calming... centering... not angst-inducing.

 

Being apart has prevented you from ever settling into "normal," which is why many of us have been saying that you need to live in the same city and conduct a more ordinary relationship -- so you can see whether the heightened emotions that come from missing and longing for each other are truly love or something else. In this sense, I think he may be more realistic than you, inasmuch as he seems to realise that he needs much more time together to assess compatibility before he's ready to make a commitment.

 

 

I agree with you. We haven't had that and we need to find out. I wouldn't say this relationship has been 'angst inducing'... it's just me being anxious, overanalyzing and overly cautious and selective. I didn't realize how hard it would be for me to be in another relationship again or think about leaving my place and security behind for another guy again. It's hard. It's not his fault, it's not an illusion of love, causing me angst and doubt. It's me spinning in my own head a lot. Desperate to not waste more years and time and make sacrifices for someone who could hurt me, disappoint me, etc. It's not his fault.

 

Well I have to go now. He's waiting on my call.

I'm sure it's very frustrating that I haven't taken action yet for some of you who have been following. It's pending. I'm working on getting the car. I'm confident that I could find another good job anywhere, there. I am working out all the logistics of storage, moving, etc. In fact, he said recently if we did happen to move back to CA in the future, he would like to live close to his family out here, and that way I'd be close to my family too. I'd be thrilled with that, if that happened to be in the future.

I am just hoping that we can spend a couple days together, refreshing all the intimacy and being together face to face to talk about this. FaceTime doesn't cut it, although that's increased recently. We are working on it. I need to see him in person. It's time to make some moves and decisions.

Edited October 26, 2016 by venusishername

[Sometymeswhy]

Venus,

It sounds like he is able to keep this fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants job situation because his father subsidizes his living expenses. However if you have no intention of ever living in that quirky family situation in that house speak up now. If a happy marriage (with you) is a priority to him he will need to start looking around for stable employment and prepare to move out of his father's house. The way you describe it sounds untenable. At least to you it does. Other women might jump at the chance to play house. But he's missing the opportunity to build equity as a homeowner and have control over who lives there!

 

You have specific standards for how you envision your life to be. Circumstances lead to different paths to be sure. However most people live the life they want to live (more or less). Super ambitious people work towards lofty goals while others bump along making ends meet and are perfectly happy doing so. There are different ways to live your life.

 

His work situation is a lot like being self employed. When you have your own business some months are great and others are not. However once you taste the independence it is hard to give up. He may not be up for playing the company politics game after so many years.

 

So, you have a lot to talk about when you see him next--aside from marriage/children readiness discussion (don't wimp out on that! If he loves you this shouldn't scare him). You will each need to make sacrifices to come together with a lifestyle that works for both of you. If being together is your ultimate source of happiness and fulfillment then you will each make compromises on lifestyle in order to make it work.

 

Hope he will visit you soon!

[GemmaUK]

Sounds like he doesn't much want to take responsibility for himself with living at his father's place for cheap rent.

To me a lack of responsibility would be a really big issue.

[Leigh 87]

My BF and I view our finances as a joint thing.

 

Neither of us would mind if say, we both worked fulltime and one of us were in full time stable employment while the other was not. All we care about is that we both work and that our COMBINED incomes pay for necessities and some luxuries some of the time, and we can save a little.

 

I think if you truly love someone then you just make it work, within reason! So what if his job isn't stable.... if he earns a healthy enough amount when combined with your income, to raise a family and get married then why does it matter who earns what?

 

I personally care more about work ethic. If a man works hard and is not long term unemployed and usually had a job then that is enough for me.

 

Do you and your BF earn enough combined income annually to raise a child and live well? If so, then that is enough for most women who otherwise have found the right fit ASIDE from the unstable employment factor.

[venusishername]

Venus,

It sounds like he is able to keep this fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants job situation because his father subsidizes his living expenses. However if you have no intention of ever living in that quirky family situation in that house speak up now. If a happy marriage (with you) is a priority to him he will need to start looking around for stable employment and prepare to move out of his father's house. The way you describe it sounds untenable. At least to you it does. Other women might jump at the chance to play house. But he's missing the opportunity to build equity as a homeowner and have control over who lives there!

You have specific standards for how you envision your life to be. Circumstances lead to different paths to be sure. However most people live the life they want to live (more or less). Super ambitious people work towards lofty goals while others bump along making ends meet and are perfectly happy doing so. There are different ways to live your life.

His work situation is a lot like being self employed. When you have your own business some months are great and others are not. However once you taste the independence it is hard to give up. He may not be up for playing the company politics game after so many years.

So, you have a lot to talk about when you see him next--aside from marriage/children readiness discussion (don't wimp out on that! If he loves you this shouldn't scare him). You will each need to make sacrifices to come together with a lifestyle that works for both of you. If being together is your ultimate source of happiness and fulfillment then you will each make compromises on lifestyle in order to make it work.

Yeah, I don’t want to live in a place where dad makes the rules. I’m one of those overly ambitious and independent people and I realize I’m in a league of my own sometimes. You’re right. So many women would jump at the chance to play house, like he’s offering. I’m just not that woman.

If we do get married, then there’s no way I would be happy staying in that house unless we bought it from his dad or he inherited it. I don’t think it’s untenable. I just don’t think he seems motivated to change his lifestyle because he has an easy situation.

I see what you mean about being self-employed. My dad did this for his entire adulthood and he had his ups and downs but always made ends meet and often had a lot extra to give me a great childhood and we had a very comfortable life.

Sounds like he doesn't much want to take responsibility for himself with living at his father's place for cheap rent. To me a lack of responsibility would be a really big issue.

Agreed, this is what bothers me. I just don’t understand it. I’m very responsible and ambitious and I would never be ok with living in my parent’s house if they had any say over my life and how I lived it and who I lived with. Apparently he’s ok with that. Maybe if I was in the picture and we were married I’d push to get out of that situation. I would have to.

Do you and your BF earn enough combined income annually to raise a child and live well? If so, then that is enough for most women who otherwise have found the right fit ASIDE from the unstable employment factor.

I don’t know, Leigh. Some people might say we don’t, like some posters here. Some people would say we do. I guess it depends on who you’re asking. If you’re asking ME, I would say we could certainly make it work. I would have to work. I wouldn’t be a housewife and a stay at home mom. I wouldn’t want that anyway. It would be nice to be able to work part time or take half a year off when the child was born. Otherwise, I want my own income.

I think what this is about is that I am a very ambitious organized and responsible person, and he does not possess the same goals and qualities as I do. That doesn’t make us incompatible, it is just a lifestyle preference that isn’t right or wrong, I guess.

[Chabela]

Hi Venus,

 

I've read your situation and think that the two of you do love each other yes. But it's like in a fog due to the long distance, it could be true love it could not. Only you can make the decision that you are willing to move across country without certainty that this relationship will work. You have to be 100% sure that you are doing this for you and not for him, sorta like no strings attached. You will never know if this is for you if you are not together in the same city for sometime.

Your bf sounds like a really great guy, but really great doesn't pay the bills or give you the lifestyle that you want unless you are willing to foot the bill. You have to really think about this.

 

I feel that you convince yourself at times that the two of you as a team can make it happen, but it seems that he's comfortable where he is, he doesn't have the pressure to make more money or save money or get a steady job why would he when he lives in a pretty sweet deal? You guys could resent each other down the road, you for him not wanting more and he for you pressuring him to get ready financially in order to have a child.

 

You need to be comfortable with his finances now, the way they are, or if not you need to get out of this relationship.

 

Me personally I would not have stopped dating other men in my area, professional men. Because you would have had more of a balance, in other words not date with a vengeance or desperation because you would have had this guy. I'm not in anyway trying to offend you, I am talking about me and some women in general. We meet someone, sleep with then too quickly and we become like fish out of water and ruin any chance of anything good growing. But if we have our attention on someone else as well we act differently and are actually chased.

I'm sorry I have to go now I will get back later.

Chabela

[lana-banana]

Venus, I didn't mean to suggest this guy doesn't love you. Of course your love is real. I just mean "true love" in the sense of being The One, etc.

 

I think if we were together and married we probably would be looking for our own place. It's hard to say. If I was living there, then yes I could make the place my own, but the daughter dynamic, it doesn't sound too appealing the way things are. Nothing against her at all, they just don't have a living situation that I really feel all to thrilled about entering. This may change, she will move on, or whatever...

 

So you can live happily ever after with him...if his daughter is elsewhere and you move into a different house, upending his closest relationships in the process. At this point the future of your relationship depends upon his ability to make massive life changes. Middle-aged men are not known for their ability to make (and stick to) small changes, much less such enormous ones. What you're asking isn't unfair or bad, but it's really pretty significant. You might as well be saying you guys have a future together but only if he becomes fluent in Russian.

 

In fact, he said recently if we did happen to move back to CA in the future, he would like to live close to his family out here, and that way I'd be close to my family too. I'd be thrilled with that, if that happened to be in the future.

 

This doesn't impress me because, yet again, it's just talk. At the end of the day you're the one moving out there to be with him (which I do think makes the most sense given the situation) and the chances of him uprooting shortly after you go through all that sturm und drang is near zero. The same goes for the talk about kids and buying your own place. He's not making any steps at all in that direction but just saying it might be nice, the same way I talk about where I'd want to go if I was taking a theoretical trip to Thailand. You guys talk a lot but nothing happens. And I completely understand why you're limited in what you can make happen. But at the end of the day something has to give.

 

I think what this is about is that I am a very ambitious organized and responsible person, and he does not possess the same goals and qualities as I do. That doesn’t make us incompatible, it is just a lifestyle preference that isn’t right or wrong, I guess.

 

You're correct that it isn't about right or wrong. But re-read the bolded part. Venus, that is the textbook definition of incompatibility.

[GemmaUK]

Sounds like he doesn't much want to take responsibility for himself with living at his father's place for cheap rent.

To me a lack of responsibility would be a really big issue.

 

I'm quoting my own last post here - one which you clicked 'like' to and I know you don't do that with all posts.

 

My own experience with 3 relationships where the 'he' appeared not to take responsibility over his living situ he also never took it over his work nor any bad experiences - they were all someone else's fault - but the guys were happy to live at 38/40+ with relatives for cheap. The point was responsibility was never theirs - not for anything - or it was all too hard (he and his daughter?).

The 3 guys - all turned out to be love bombing, controlling, one emotionally, physically & sexually abusive but the other two I have no doubt would have been - all the traits were there!

It took me months to get away from 2 of them , 4 years and a threat from the police via me to get away from the other and I dated him for only a few weeks! Lol!

 

You have read up on traits of abusers haven't you?

Please do - you should.

Check out my thread titled 'Book Recommendations' to get an idea - see which may be a good read for you if you haven't already read them.

 

I had no idea his house was his Dad's - I got in here late. I would have attempted to pull you right out of this whole scenario if I had realised that.

 

Personally I would not move.

This would be one I put down to experience and I would end the relationship.

[Redhead14]

I'm quoting my own last post here - one which you clicked 'like' to and I know you don't do that with all posts.

 

My own experience with 3 relationships where the 'he' appeared not to take responsibility over his living situ he also never took it over his work nor any bad experiences - they were all someone else's fault - but the guys were happy to live at 38/40+ with relatives for cheap. The point was responsibility was never theirs - not for anything - or it was all too hard (he and his daughter?).

The 3 guys - all turned out to be love bombing, controlling, one emotionally, physically & sexually abusive but the other two I have no doubt would have been - all the traits were there!

It took me months to get away from 2 of them , 4 years and a threat from the police via me to get away from the other and I dated him for only a few weeks! Lol!

 

You have read up on traits of abusers haven't you?

Please do - you should.

Check out my thread titled 'Book Recommendations' to get an idea - see which may be a good read for you if you haven't already read them.

 

I had no idea his house was his Dad's - I got in here late. I would have attempted to pull you right out of this whole scenario if I had realised that.

 

Personally I would not move.

This would be one I put down to experience and I would end the relationship.

 

Oh, Wow! I was kinda late to this myself but did check in here and there but I missed this too. This is huge!

 

Venus, if you move there and get your own place, you need to be wary about putting yourself in the position of him moving himself in . . . it's likely you will spend most of the time at your place and then the logic is, "we might as well live together". He needs to get out on his own for a period of time and establish himself as an independent "entity".

 

Don't move there unless he gets his own place there too at least. That way the playing field is even at least and you'll be able to observe whether or not he can stand on his own two feet. If he can't do that, he's not going to be able to stand up for and maintain a family. That would make things a little more fair, as well, in terms of sacrifices to see if the relationship can work.

[Eighty_nine]

Sounds like he doesn't much want to take responsibility for himself with living at his father's place for cheap rent.

To me a lack of responsibility would be a really big issue.

 

In my opinion, this isn't necessarily irresponsible. If I couldn't afford to buy a home, but could live cheaply in a home I would likely inherit, I definitely would. That's smart to me.

[No_Go]

I don't think it is that catastrophic - but V needs to give up her pre-set 'ideal'. It is not going to work in the way she has been picturing it, this doesn't mean is not going to work at all. It will just be different.

 

V - stop trying to change him. Write a list of your wants and needs. See if he is meeting most of the needs and some of the wants. Then go from there.

[introverted1]

Just want to add that, while it wouldn't be for me necessarily, I imagine that part of what allows him to have a work style where he is sometimes busy and making good money and other times waiting for the next job is the fact that he lives in his dad's house. Yes, dad may set some of the rules but the bottom line is that it is less expensive than living in his own place and (guessing here) if he has to miss a month's rent because of his work situation, dad probably won't throw him out!

 

I don't see this as an inherently bad (or good) thing. It goes back to compatibility. Is this how you will be happy living? And, if not, and you convince him to get his own place with you, will you be happy being potentially the main financial support during his "down" employment times? Seems to me that you have traveled very far from your original desire (many pages back) of having the option to stay home, even if for just a few months, with your child. If he can't afford a plane ticket to CA because of his work situation, how on earth is going to afford his share of a mortgage?

 

No Go has a good suggestion - write down your wants and needs and then look at how he meets them. Not how he could or might meet them at some future point, but how the man he is now -- he's not a kid but a fully formed adult -- meets them.

[GemmaUK]

I totally understand the posts in reply to mine.

 

No, one single thing standing alone is not a worry.

 

The ex's I knew had other things - their boss was a total nightmare, ex gf/wife or several were all 'physcho' for a variety of reasons - never a normal - I got bored, left the company or we grew apart.

All and every bad thing that happened to them was always someone else's fault.

V needs to figure out from past talk and present talk what might be going on in this particular respect.

 

It would be silly not to.

[No_Go]

I know what you mean precisely because I have an ex like yours (while his ex gfs were sueing him for various reasons, from stealing to abuse, he'd come with the most innocent expression and tell me they were just 'crazy liars').

 

But where do you see this trend with V's BF? I noted one of these - that his ex wife 'failed to file their taxes' etc... And the 'rent' in his dad's house is a little sketchy but besides that - he seems pretty normal guy.

 

I totally understand the posts in reply to mine.

 

No, one single thing standing alone is not a worry.

 

The ex's I knew had other things - their boss was a total nightmare, ex gf/wife or several were all 'physcho' for a variety of reasons - never a normal - I got bored, left the company or we grew apart.

All and every bad thing that happened to them was always someone else's fault.

V needs to figure out from past talk and present talk what might be going on in this particular respect.

 

It would be silly not to.