When it rains it pours

October 30, 2016

I know what you mean precisely because I have an ex like yours (while his ex gfs were sueing him for various reasons, from stealing to abuse, he'd come with the most innocent expression and tell me they were just 'crazy liars').

But where do you see this trend with V's BF? I noted one of these - that his ex wife 'failed to file their taxes' etc... And the 'rent' in his dad's house is a little sketchy but besides that - he seems pretty normal guy.

If you read my post again you'll see that I was suggesting to look for anything else that could add up to a trend basically.

I have just done some skimming through the last 3 pages of V's posts and found a trend though which for me would set off questions, if not alarm bells.

I found:

Recent divorce

Baby moma drama

His kids telling V things to warn her

He seem to always be the one laid off even recently and after intensive training. Training is an investment by the company and usually they won't lay someone off after training unless they are unreliable or really can't do the job.

I would be wondering if 20 other guys were also laid off when he is or whether it's 2-3 guys and he is always one of the 2-3. Or, it might be just him who gets laid off.

Him being laid off seems to be pretty consistent.

He seems to get on well with his son but doesn't get on with his daughter.

His father wants daughter to live at his place but sounds to me like he and his father's relationship may be fractured over this and or over other things possibly?

He seems to be able to go out when laid off - personally that's something I wouldn't do especially if I knew I wanted to visit the one I love.

In the UK (anyway) contractors usually don't work on weekends and especially not after working all week on 10-12 hour shifts - I am guessing this is different in the US?

October 30, 2016

Some solid points.

Also I totally don't buy in the caught up at work excuse during the weekends etc.

I think he has very low expenses (living in parents property, no dependent kids etc), that's why he can afford going out even when laid off. He's likely not an abuser, just a bohemian guy enjoying his life without much planning ahead. I'm not sure he's looking for starting all over with new responsibilities, kids etc, that's the problem. He's a great as a casual BF and likely horrible as a husband.

If you read my post again you'll see that I was suggesting to look for anything else that could add up to a trend basically.
I have just done some skimming through the last 3 pages of V's posts and found a trend though which for me would set off questions, if not alarm bells.

I found:
Recent divorce
Baby moma drama
His kids telling V things to warn her
He seem to always be the one laid off even recently and after intensive training. Training is an investment by the company and usually they won't lay someone off after training unless they are unreliable or really can't do the job.
I would be wondering if 20 other guys were also laid off when he is or whether it's 2-3 guys and he is always one of the 2-3. Or, it might be just him who gets laid off.
Him being laid off seems to be pretty consistent.
He seems to get on well with his son but doesn't get on with his daughter.
His father wants daughter to live at his place but sounds to me like he and his father's relationship may be fractured over this and or over other things possibly?
He seems to be able to go out when laid off - personally that's something I wouldn't do especially if I knew I wanted to visit the one I love.
In the UK (anyway) contractors usually don't work on weekends and especially not after working all week on 10-12 hour shifts - I am guessing this is different in the US?

October 30, 2016

If you read my post again you'll see that I was suggesting to look for anything else that could add up to a trend basically.
I have just done some skimming through the last 3 pages of V's posts and found a trend though which for me would set off questions, if not alarm bells.

I found:
Recent divorce
Baby moma drama
His kids telling V things to warn her
He seem to always be the one laid off even recently and after intensive training. Training is an investment by the company and usually they won't lay someone off after training unless they are unreliable or really can't do the job.
I would be wondering if 20 other guys were also laid off when he is or whether it's 2-3 guys and he is always one of the 2-3. Or, it might be just him who gets laid off.
Him being laid off seems to be pretty consistent.
He seems to get on well with his son but doesn't get on with his daughter.
His father wants daughter to live at his place but sounds to me like he and his father's relationship may be fractured over this and or over other things possibly?
He seems to be able to go out when laid off - personally that's something I wouldn't do especially if I knew I wanted to visit the one I love.
In the UK (anyway) contractors usually don't work on weekends and especially not after working all week on 10-12 hour shifts - I am guessing this is different in the US?

It's not that he is an employee, he is an independent contractor working on jobs with limited scope then moving on to the next project. Sometimes there are gaps between jobs. It is very common for construction workers to get "laid off" multiple times a year even when they work for a large construction firm as a foreman or laborer.

A friend of mine is married to a construction foreman and my husbands company also hires laborers and independent contractors. It is tough work physically and they typically need to move on to some other type of work when they get in their 50's due to cronic back pain. Without fail. They need to find some other type of work or wind up on disability. Or they can move into management or work for the city, school district, hotel or somewhere managing facilities. There are options. My point is V needs to get comfortable with the idea that he is not going to be well off, unless he has a big inheritance coming. She will probably be working her whole life if she ends up with this man. Not the worse thing if he enriches her life in other ways.

October 30, 2016

I tend to agree with No_Go's assessment. I don't see any major red flags with this guy's character. Only two things really bother me:

1) He lives in a city with one of the lowest costs of living in the entire country, receives a discount on rent, and still struggles to make ends meet. In and of itself there's not a huge problem with this. You don't need to make X amount of money to be a good partner. But Venus is looking for someone who can not only provide for her but also help to raise a child, and that doesn't square with this situation at all. I agree it's good that he lives at home; that's smart for his scenario. It's just not suited for bringing children into the world.

2) He joked-but-not-really about being engaged for several years. This makes me think that he may be pretty ambivalent about being married, or at least doesn't take engagement anywhere near as seriously as Venus does. That to me is worrisome because it suggests they aren't on the same page about the future. He may be thinking of the ring as a token just to get her to move in without having any real intention of marriage. I worry a bit about his habit to say all kinds of things that Venus finds enticing but never really deliver on any of them, because she's really the only one doing the work.

October 31, 2016

Happy Halloween, Venus! How are things? Any update on his plans to see you? Hope you are well.

Also just wanted to say that I admire how you handle -- with grace and openness -- a metric sh*t-ton of advice from all corners of the world. I think of you often and wish the best for you.

November 1, 2016

You're correct that it isn't about right or wrong. But re-read the bolded part. Venus, that is the textbook definition of incompatibility.

Lana, I wanted to reply to this last week but I was out of town all weekend. I am a bit confused here. Isn't the reason I would move there to FIND OUT instead of assume that we are or are not compatible? I don't expect someone to be exactly like me, so I can't expect or require that he is either. I think having similar values and goals for how you want to live your life is what it is about. Am I wrong? Not all people desire the kind of relationship and lifestyle that others do, my relationship looks different from yours or someone else's. Isn't the idea of moving there to find out for sure that we are or are not compatible? It would be a shame to assume without experiencing it fully that we really aren't. I would hate to think I walked away from this because I assumed without really knowing.

I'm quoting my own last post here - one which you clicked 'like' to and I know you don't do that with all posts.

My own experience with 3 relationships where the 'he' appeared not to take responsibility over his living situ he also never took it over his work nor any bad experiences - they were all someone else's fault - but the guys were happy to live at 38/40+ with relatives for cheap. The point was responsibility was never theirs - not for anything - or it was all too hard (he and his daughter?).
The 3 guys - all turned out to be love bombing, controlling, one emotionally, physically & sexually abusive but the other two I have no doubt would have been - all the traits were there!
It took me months to get away from 2 of them , 4 years and a threat from the police via me to get away from the other and I dated him for only a few weeks! Lol!

You have read up on traits of abusers haven't you?

The reason I liked your post wasn't that I necessarily agree with you, I just liked what you wrote. And yes, I am actually personally familiar with abusive relationships. My last boyfriend was the epitome of an abuser and I don't see any comparison to my current one. I don't even want to get started on it because I've been through hell and back with two long term abusive relationships in my past so I do know and am very alert to the signs and absolutely intolerant to that ever happening again.

Just want to add that, while it wouldn't be for me necessarily, I imagine that part of what allows him to have a work style where he is sometimes busy and making good money and other times waiting for the next job is the fact that he lives in his dad's house. Yes, dad may set some of the rules but the bottom line is that it is less expensive than living in his own place and (guessing here) if he has to miss a month's rent because of his work situation, dad probably won't throw him out!

I don't see this as an inherently bad (or good) thing. It goes back to compatibility. Is this how you will be happy living? And, if not, and you convince him to get his own place with you, will you be happy being potentially the main financial support during his "down" employment times? Seems to me that you have traveled very far from your original desire (many pages back) of having the option to stay home, even if for just a few months, with your child. If he can't afford a plane ticket to CA because of his work situation, how on earth is going to afford his share of a mortgage?

No Go has a good suggestion - write down your wants and needs and then look at how he meets them. Not how he could or might meet them at some future point, but how the man he is now -- he's not a kid but a fully formed adult -- meets them.

I liked your point about how is he going to pay for mortgage if he can't afford to buy a plane ticket. I mean, this isn't exactly the case. He has the money to buy a plane ticket. He is paying his bills and doing whatever he does and living and also at the mercy of work schedule as well. I also know that spending money on a plane ticket and days off work requires planning, budgeting, saving in advance, etc. That's what's happening, it's not that he doesn't have money to do those things, it's really a matter of being able to afford all the other things on top of that. I know what that's like.

I just wanted to touch on the staying at home with the child issue. My standpoint hasn't changed from before. I would like to have the option to stay home for a couple months up to a year with my child. I want to return to work and make my own money. I would not be happy relying on my husband to support me financially. Other than that I agree with your suggestions to make a list and weigh what it is I can accept and can't.

He seems to be able to go out when laid off - personally that's something I wouldn't do especially if I knew I wanted to visit the one I love.
In the UK (anyway) contractors usually don't work on weekends and especially not after working all week on 10-12 hour shifts - I am guessing this is different in the US?

Well if you are on someone else's schedule yes of course it is absolutely possible that he would work on weekends. In the time that I've known him sometimes (even after working a long day work week), he also has a side job that he can complete on a Sunday for example. If he is working all week during the day his only time to do another job as an independent contractor is on the weekend.

It's not that he is an employee, he is an independent contractor working on jobs with limited scope then moving on to the next project. Sometimes there are gaps between jobs. It is very common for construction workers to get "laid off" multiple times a year even when they work for a large construction firm as a foreman or laborer.

A friend of mine is married to a construction foreman and my husbands company also hires laborers and independent contractors. It is tough work physically and they typically need to move on to some other type of work when they get in their 50's due to cronic back pain. Without fail. They need to find some other type of work or wind up on disability. Or they can move into management or work for the city, school district, hotel or somewhere managing facilities. There are options. My point is V needs to get comfortable with the idea that he is not going to be well off, unless he has a big inheritance coming. She will probably be working her whole life if she ends up with this man. Not the worse thing if he enriches her life in other ways.

Yes this is exactly right. For example the 'laid off' is so touch and go even if he gets 'laid off' they call him back the next week (this just happened) and say, 'hey we're ready for you now, come back and report on Monday). This actually just happened today to him. So it's more or less project based. When the project ends, the job is over. It's not like being 'fired'.

He went through a period of training recently for a new contract, was put on hold with the start date, so technically not under contract, then when it comes available he goes on and starts under contract. When this isn't happening he works independently on his own business and makes his own schedule. Sometimes (like now) he has the other projects running and then the union hires him too so he's juggling multiple jobs. That's where things are today.

Happy Halloween, Venus! How are things? Any update on his plans to see you? Hope you are well.

Also just wanted to say that I admire how you handle -- with grace and openness -- a metric sh*t-ton of advice from all corners of the world. I think of you often and wish the best for you.

Thank you. I'm ok. I just got back from a long weekend out of town for a bachelorette party and I'm absolutely exhausted. I got cut short with my bf on the phone today because I was traveling all day today and we will be connecting tonight for certain. I had spotty connection all weekend so we only texted here and there.. It was tough. I had a lot of time to be thinking about all of this while gone, mostly that I missed him and wished we could be together at the end of the day. I really wish I could see him now. He was beginning to tell me about the fact that he did get called back in to start that big job he was training for, so it turned out to be true that he couldn't make plans until he knew that schedule. He has been counting on that job and wanted it so I do understand that he couldn't make plans to come until he knew for sure when he would start and even if he could take a Thursday and Friday off to see me. Now it doesn't look that way, but yes he can find out soon enough if the upcoming Vets Day weekend would still work. He told me it may have to be last minute planning. I get it. So, I just have to sit tight now. There's nothing I can do to make it happen. He assures me often that he will be coming ASAP.

I don't think it's about the money. He has money to go out. He has low rent so yes, that cushions things for him when he is between or waiting on the work. I don't think that would be for me personally but of course I can see the appeal of that and yes, I don't think he wants to change that, the way things are now, as a bachelor, etc. He doesn't have much incentive to.

I know adults who live with their parents for a period of time, or pay low rent in a house that a family member owns. I mean, it's not something that I would do.... only because I couldn't stand not being independent. I couldn't answer to anyone like that or feel like I was obligated to anyone but myself. But I realize I'm probably the exception to a lot of things. This doesn't make me better or smarter or less smart or anything... it's just that he and I aren't cut from the same cloth on that one. I don't think that means we are incompatible. If we were in this together and say if we got married I doubt things would stay as they are. But, I really do think that he's not in any rush or has any desire to change his situation, because he's on his own and unmarried, spends money like a bachelor and has no wife or family unit to think of. Certainly my lifestyle would change too if I was married and had someone to come home to. I know he wants that, he says so all the time.

This long distance has been very challenging, I know that he's been frustrated too. I realized over the weekend that I really want marriage and to have a strong and solid family unit. That could be a child in the near future or a dog, just some kind of unit. I am not willing to sacrifice that. It is VERY, VERY important to me. I'm not willing to date someone just for the company anymore. If he's not on the same page, or is just a casual boyfriend situation (I don't think he thinks of us as casual in any way, by the way), then I just can't give up my life here. If and when I have that come to Jesus talk with him..... when he gets here.... I can imagine what he would say. That he wants that too and let's see how it goes living in the same city. I don't see him responding any other way, in fact.

I've had several opportunities to have good and loving relationships. Some relationships I've had I have turned down because I was too picky, not ready, scared, not in love anymore, etc. I have been so picky, I'm single and never married at almost 33 years old. I could have said yes when I was proposed to at 23, I didn't. I could have already had a child but I terminated the pregnancy at 25. I could've ended up with a guy that adored me since I was a teenager and loved me for all that I am, good and bad... but I turned down so many opportunities. In hindsight they were probably at the time they were smart choices. However I definitely have some regrets turning down great guys who really adored me and would have been good for me. But I feel that the reason I'm sitting here alone, unmarried, in a long distance relationship, and not living the 'adult' life I want to live (marriage and making my own traditions) is because I was and have been too picky or too scared. I look at many women I know who are married. They may not have perfect marriages, they aren't always happy, there's hard times and incompatibilities and doubts in their relationships too. But they went for it. I never did. I chickened out and was too critical or felt I had to keep searching for someone who I felt was better suited for me. Now I'm getting older and I don't have all the time I used to. I have a good man in front of me who is putting in the work and effort and has been consistent since day one. He's got some issues. Some things I just don't feel we see eye to eye, like living in a family member's house for low rent. The other things... well, we have been getting to know all this time. I know where I stand and I know he has similar values as I do. He may not be as ambitious, educated or independent as I am, but you know - I have dated men like that and just because they are like me doesn't mean we are compatible either.

Sometimes I wonder if he's going to give up and just want to date someone easier in his own city. I think he must be frustrated and impatient, well in fact I know he is too. He said the other day he can't wait for me to be there so we can spend time together just going out on dates, like to a movie or dinner.

Just like me he has plenty of opportunities to date other people. Many people wonder and have asked why we don't date people in our own cities, the answer is we have, but no one compares, so it's not even something we look for anymore. But sometimes I get insecure thinking that the long distance has or could be too much for him, or me, and we would get lonely and just give up on this. I have dark thoughts sometimes. Of course it makes it worse that we still don't have a date pinned down. He says rest assured it will be as soon as possible this month, now that he for sure has his new schedule it can be arranged now. So that is good. It's just been very unsettling, all this limbo.

I do know for sure though, I'm not willing to sacrifice my desire to have a marriage and family unit, in the very near future. So- I can see if I can make that with him, but that would take time, and leaving CA... and moving there and dating in the same city. Or, I can assume we aren't compatible (going back to Lana's comment) and just cut my losses and be alone, single and start over. Either way, I realize that my 'plans' have not happened on my own timeline. I'm not sure what it would take to achieve these goals, if for some reason it isn't the right time or fit. You can't force it.

November 1, 2016

I do know for sure though, I'm not willing to sacrifice my desire to have a marriage and family unit, in the very near future. So- I can see if I can make that with him, but that would take time, and leaving CA... and moving there and dating in the same city. Or, I can assume we aren't compatible (going back to Lana's comment) and just cut my losses and be alone, single and start over. Either way, I realize that my 'plans' have not happened on my own timeline. I'm not sure what it would take to achieve these goals, if for some reason it isn't the right time or fit. You can't force it.

Well - one thing for sure: Time is marching on.

I just read a great deal of this thread, Venus, and I must say that your propensity for over thinking and trying to see and analyze things from every possible perspective; combined with a LOT of projecting, is badly getting in the way of you taking definitive action. A lot of time and energy is getting used up for no purpose.

Especially TIME. You are thwarting your own desire to be married "in the very near future." You're right, you sure can't force it; but you are actively hindering it from being a concrete possibility. You either need to be actively taking the steps necessary to move this relationship to the next level, or let go of it. Like, yesterday.

I think you know this guy, you know a lot about him. It will be a big mistake to make any plans around ways that he might change. You spend a LOT of time spinning out about ways that things might be different than they are; for example, how you won't be happy living in his dad's house, ever, and you'd have to get a different house.

You need to be dealing with what the actual circumstances are, and whether they are going to work for you or not. What you see is what you are going to get, and if you get something different, hope that it's something you like better rather than worse!

There is no reason for you to be spending any more of your brain cells and TIME thinking like this. My advice to you is to cut through all the millions and millions of words and just pare it down. Deal with what EXACTLY is in front of you, make some decisions, and TAKE ACTION.

November 1, 2016

^^ Spot on.

As for this:

I liked your point about how is he going to pay for mortgage if he can't afford to buy a plane ticket. I mean, this isn't exactly the case. He has the money to buy a plane ticket. He is paying his bills and doing whatever he does and living and also at the mercy of work schedule as well. I also know that spending money on a plane ticket and days off work requires planning, budgeting, saving in advance, etc. That's what's happening, it's not that he doesn't have money to do those things, it's really a matter of being able to afford all the other things on top of that. I know what that's like.

This ties in to Nuevo Yorko's comments: the situation you describe isn't likely to change -- there is major planning and wrangling involved before he can take a three-day trip within the same country. In this context, I wonder how you two will be able to handle all the myriad unexpected expenses and events requiring time off that come with having a child? Sure you can have a master plan for how you are going to bring up your child(ren), but life with young children is inherently unpredictable... and expensive!

I hope your talk went well, Venus, and that the two of you will be together soon.

November 1, 2016

I want to make it clear that I am not feeling negatively about your boyfriend, and I hope I didn't give that impression. If this relationship is what you want, it's what I hope for you.

November 1, 2016

I just wanted to touch on the staying at home with the child issue. My standpoint hasn't changed from before. I would like to have the option to stay home for a couple months up to a year with my child. I want to return to work and make my own money. I would not be happy relying on my husband to support me financially. Other than that I agree with your suggestions to make a list and weigh what it is I can accept and can't...I realized over the weekend that I really want marriage and to have a strong and solid family unit. That could be a child in the near future or a dog, just some kind of unit. I am not willing to sacrifice that. It is VERY, VERY important to me. I'm not willing to date someone just for the company anymore...I do know for sure though, I'm not willing to sacrifice my desire to have a marriage and family unit, in the very near future.

I pieced these statements together from your last post because they all reflect your variety of feelings about on the topic. On the one hand, you say you're absolutely insistent upon having the option to stay home with your child (something you've said before, repeatedly); on the other, you say that you'd be willing to accept a dog so long as you're married. Which is it? Whatever you decide, all that matters is you make the choice that's right for you, but sometimes I wonder if you aren't bargaining yourself down and lowering your expectations as you realize there's more he can't provide. You swing back and forth a lot and tend to rationalize many things as they happen. Be sure of what you value and you won't compromise on that in the long run.

Lastly: the part about marriage and a family unit "in the very near future". Over the past couple of pages we've established you guys are nowhere near ready to be engaged, much less married. You haven't even decided if you're going to move down there yet. Marriage and a child/dog isn't in the very near future, not with this or any guy.

I don't think it's about the money. He has money to go out. He has low rent so yes, that cushions things for him when he is between or waiting on the work. I don't think that would be for me personally but of course I can see the appeal of that and yes, I don't think he wants to change that, the way things are now, as a bachelor, etc. He doesn't have much incentive to.
...I don't think that means we are incompatible. If we were in this together and say if we got married I doubt things would stay as they are. But, I really do think that he's not in any rush or has any desire to change his situation, because he's on his own and unmarried, spends money like a bachelor and has no wife or family unit to think of. Certainly my lifestyle would change too if I was married and had someone to come home to. I know he wants that, he says so all the time.

This is exactly the kind of rationalization talk I was describing above. You are handwaving your differences because you're convinced things will change (that is, he will change) once you get down there and start setting the rules. They will not and he will not. He is not going to change his life for you. Please don't make decisions on how you anticipate things will be; that's a fool's errand. Listen to what everyone else in this thread has said. Think about the life he lives and the way he conducts himself right now, here, today. THAT is the man you'll spend the rest of your life with. Either you're willing to take a leap of faith on that or you're not.

Edited November 1, 2016 by lana-banana

November 4, 2016

The best thing that ever happened to me was when I realized I am not right for everyone, not everyone is right for me, and that is ok.

November 5, 2016

I tend to agree with No_Go's assessment. I don't see any major red flags with this guy's character. Only two things really bother me:

1) He lives in a city with one of the lowest costs of living in the entire country, receives a discount on rent, and still struggles to make ends meet. In and of itself there's not a huge problem with this. You don't need to make X amount of money to be a good partner. But Venus is looking for someone who can not only provide for her but also help to raise a child, and that doesn't square with this situation at all. I agree it's good that he lives at home; that's smart for his scenario. It's just not suited for bringing children into the world.

2) He joked-but-not-really about being engaged for several years. This makes me think that he may be pretty ambivalent about being married, or at least doesn't take engagement anywhere near as seriously as Venus does. That to me is worrisome because it suggests they aren't on the same page about the future. He may be thinking of the ring as a token just to get her to move in without having any real intention of marriage. I worry a bit about his habit to say all kinds of things that Venus finds enticing but never really deliver on any of them, because she's really the only one doing the work.

Lana, those two things bother me too. I am not judging his lifestyle, I just worry that he won't be a 'provider', in the sense that he has such a sporadic work schedule, appears to have difficulty making long term plans and is not financially solid and totally secure. But he makes more on average than I do, the inconsistency of work is scary. Seriously. As a woman who wants a husband and who wants to have a child, this worries me. He's not going to change. I know that. I mean, this isn't to say that he isn't doing just fine on his own. But for someone his age, I will admit... it seems very RISKY for me to uproot my life and go all in on this. By doing that, I would be closing myself off to other possibilities. At my age, this seems foolish, well, risky I should say. But I worry (about things in the future which seem foolish that I can't predict). He seems perfectly happy with his lifestyle. He is very good man, no doubt. And it is his highest priority to make me happy and he adores me. You are right that he's not on the same timeframe as I am with marriage and wanting a child. This isn't because he is against those things....but clearly he has already been there, done that, so the eagerness to do it again is not the same as mine. That's understandable. I know for certain that he values marriage though. And family is everything to him. So this is a conflict, in that he has solid family values and would be a good husband in that manner. If I married him I wouldn't be a housewife. I'd have to work and well, that's ok with me. I just don't want financial issues to be an issue. And it probably would be with him. Sometimes I think I assume or he projects insecurity about money and well, as we've already established I don't have all the facts and numbers because we don't live together, aren't getting married, and I live across the country. Personally, through my observation.... I don't think he struggles to make ends meet. I just don't think he's very organized with money management, and I noticed he gets very wound up and worried when things are tight.

Also I wanted to touch on your point about saying things to entice me but not delivering, so that I end up doing all the work. It seems that you hit on exactly what I was talking about when I was going back and forth about moving there. I said exactly that in my posts, that I felt I was doing the hard work, so that held me back a bit. I mentioned this before, in that, while it would be wise to close the distance and if I can go there, (clearly one person will need to make a move here and very soon), it didn't seem very.... 'fair' should I say? That he would change nothing except trying to entice me to live with him... and clear a closet and room for my furniture.

I will be very honest. I don't think he is insincere, not at all. I don't think that he would even talk about marriage if he didn't picture that with me. At this point, I am very very sure that he is in love and committed and I do truly feel that it is on his mind a lot, so he is trying to move things in that direction. I do trust that; of course things could change, but honestly I don't think he's misleading me or is insincere at all. I know at this point that we wouldn't be still dating and things wouldn't have progressed like this if we were not seriously considering a future with each other.

I am still interested in moving there. But the two things you've mentioned also bother me too. I know it is a risk, and also I can't change him or expect major changes. This is why I feel hesitation. So now, after all this deliberation... if those things are standing out to you, as they are me, would it be totally stupid of me to go and find out if I'm wrong or if I'm right? Should I already know the answer?

He mentioned again the other night about how he would be open to moving here, but it couldn't be right away, it might take some time now that he's contracted. Now this gives him the opportunity to save, he makes good money with this position, etc. I told him point blank, I don't want to be moving back and forth. If he wants to come to CA in the future that's great. I would rather he come here. I am open to moving there but I told him I'd only be doing it because he wasn't coming here. If I had my way, he would move here, work, and he could keep the house in LA, and maybe we could both go back there. I would REALLY, REALLY prefer that he come here. But unless I want to spend another 4, 6, 12 months in a LDR (which I don't), I'm going to have to go there first. I may come back, we may come back. I don't like it but if I want to continue the relationship, (and not be long distance), I'm going to have to go. It's not what I want, but it's probably going to have to be me to do it in the near future. I'm talking after the first of the year.

The best thing that ever happened to me was when I realized I am not right for everyone, not everyone is right for me, and that is ok.

I have wondered if he is right for me. On one hand, I'm talking about all my concerns and fears projected into the future. But on the other hand, he's the best thing that has ever happened to me. He lights up my life. He adores me. And the reason I'm single and never married at 32 years old, even when I've had many chances, is because I was too picky and thought I could find better. Hey, there are a lot of cute, successful men out there, in my city. I could end this relationship without ever knowing for certain if he was right for me or not, or if he made me feel happy and secure, and hope I met and fell in love with one of those guys and he was right for me, and he loved me like my bf does, etc. I never found that and boy, have I looked.. I've dated so many men. I have plenty of experience dating. And I'm ready to move past dating now and I don't want to think the grass is greener anymore. Being selective is smart, but it means you may be single for the rest of your life. I don't want that. I am not sure he is totally right for me in every single way forever and ever. But I know that his values are in align with mine and he's a good man with a big heart and he loves me truly. His goal in life is to make sure I'm happy. I don't know... sometimes I wonder, would I rather be with someone who could provide all that security and allow me to never worry about money issues and I could stay home for a couple months with a young child, or would I rather be with someone who loves and adores me? If I keep waiting and looking for all of the above, I might be too old to have kids. One of my best friends is married to a wealthy successful man and they have a nice life, but he isn't romantic, and they hardly ever have sex. My cousin is married to an eccentric millionaire with 4 kids and has never worked a day in her life. But she lives in her own house (away from him) and gets an allowance. I wouldn't want that for myself.

He send me a picture of himself the other day, and it looked like it could have been an accidental picture, he looked goofy but when I saw it my heart melted, because it perfectly captured him to the core. I got teared up thinking about how honest and true he is. How it breaks my heart that he would ever be lonely or sad that we couldn't be together. How all I wanted was for him to be happy and if he wasn't, I wasn't either. It ripped my heart out to think that he would ever feel lonely or frustrated because his girlfriend is across the country. It's been two months now. And he just had a birthday. I sent him a card and I also arranged for a cake delivery the day after. I told him I would have given him a birthday gift when we would see each other this month, but I thought that you should have a cake on your birthday. He told me that he doesn't need any gift, that I am really a gift to him. That he is grateful every day for me, that I light up his life and am the love of his life. He's sincere. And we do love each other deeply. No matter if it has been long distance, clearly there is a strong foundation that we have built. Especially now, lately.

We've been pretending that we go out on dates together, like we'll say we're going to watch a movie so we can watch it "together", or he'll video chat me for a "dinner date" so we can pretend we're eating together. It seriously breaks my heart to think of him feeling lonely. I guess after my girls' weekend last week and his passing birthday, it all kicked in how much I really do love him and we need to be together. I think also seeing that picture did something too.

Unfortunately, with this new schedule, it looks like he probably won't get here next weekend, as we had talked about. But, he would get a week off for Thanksgiving, so he will plan to come then or before then. When he goes in Monday can find out more. But Thanksgiving isn't far away. During that time we need to have that face to face conversation I've been waiting to have. He got a little nervous about having a "talk" but I told him it wasn't anything bad, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page with some things. (the marriage and kid issue in particular).

I do know that we need to be together, even if I find out that he's not right for me, I think the only way I'll know right or wrong is if we come together. It's scary and I hate to leave my place and my comfort zone and be away from all my belongings that I love and have set up for myself. I hate the thought of being away from my parents, they are getting older and I am very close with them. It makes me sad to think of leaving them too.

How do you really know that you've found the right person for you? I've asked a couple people this question. One of my best friends says as long as you feel happy and secure, it is right.

I know you need to want the same long term things. I want a marriage and a child out of that marriage within a year or so. I want to own a house, a small house is fine, someday soon. I want retirement funds and financial soundness and to be able to live comfortably and securely. I don't need to be rich or to have nice cars and a big house. The older I get the more I'd be happy to have a little craftsman house near my family. I would be happy going to work doing what I do now, and coming home to someone I love. I want to take yearly vacations, nothing extravagant necessarily, just get out of town. I do that now on my own, if I was married we would do it together. I want to be near family and loved ones, and at this point in my life I want to have and be part of my own family and make my own traditions. I don't want to be alone anymore. So what, I have all my belongings set up the way I want, it means nothing if I'm alone at the end of the day!! Sometimes I think it's not worth hanging on to. I've told him all these things.

I think having a child would be the sticking point for him, as he already has two. So if he's dead against it (to my knowledge he's not against it), and/or if he can't provide the lifestyle (with me) to raise a child, with me, then I just can't continue the relationship. It would be sad and terrible. But if he doesn't want that and/or is unwilling to provide it, I can't give up what I want, and I won't.

So when I see him I will ask, and not accept the... what did you call it, weasel words....

And until then, I won't have the answers I need to move forward.

November 5, 2016

V, one friendly suggestion: back off of the 'high pressure' discussions by your next meet because if you don't, he may bail. It is not looking rosy right now: discussions are spinning in circles (I thought it has been decided you're moving there, why get back into discussing other options), and visit frequency decreases.

You just need to back off a bit unless you're discussing logistics (like Jan 1st move). These spinning discussions are what most men run the hills from. Think from his perspective for a second, and take his answers for face-value. He told you everything you need to know, you just don't like it and therefore keep asking same questions over and over and over. This will ruin the foundations of any relationship, and yours is super fragile right now.

Find a new hobby, enjoy your life and talk further about future only if you have new questions or concrete plans.

November 5, 2016

You really are moving backwards. Now you're trying to see if he would move to be with you? I haven't agreed with everything this guy has said but he's right that it makes more sense for you to move down there. He has new work down there and a major discount on his rent. You have job flexibility that he doesn't. There's really no compelling reason for him to move to you.

He mentioned again the other night about how he would be open to moving here, but it couldn't be right away, it might take some time now that he's contracted. Now this gives him the opportunity to save, he makes good money with this position, etc.

Again: he's technically right. But it's a bit annoying that yet again he presents himself as "open to" something you want without offering any commitment to it. If you guys sit down to talk and he can't give you a commitment beyond being "open to" having kids, will that be enough for you?

I don't know... sometimes I wonder, would I rather be with someone who could provide all that security and allow me to never worry about money issues and I could stay home for a couple months with a young child, or would I rather be with someone who loves and adores me? If I keep waiting and looking for all of the above, I might be too old to have kids. One of my best friends is married to a wealthy successful man and they have a nice life, but he isn't romantic, and they hardly ever have sex. My cousin is married to an eccentric millionaire with 4 kids and has never worked a day in her life. But she lives in her own house (away from him) and gets an allowance. I wouldn't want that for myself.

Venus, I don't understand why you act like financial security and emotional connection are mutually exclusive things. The world is full of hundreds of millions of men who can provide for their partners and who are hopelessly devoted to them. It's not an either/or proposition. Frankly, I'm worried that your biological clock is so urgent that you have to make a decision right now even if it means finding a partner who can't provide for you.

How do you really know that you've found the right person for you? I've asked a couple people this question. One of my best friends says as long as you feel happy and secure, it is right.
I know you need to want the same long term things. I want a marriage and a child out of that marriage within a year or so. I want to own a house, a small house is fine, someday soon. I want retirement funds and financial soundness and to be able to live comfortably and securely.

These are all completely reasonable things to want. But in your particular circumstances I'm not sure if they can happen on your timeline. Wedding, babies, and houses are all outrageously expensive even in the best of financial straits. And even if there were no financial obstacle, that's a hell of a lot of strain to put on any relationship. You guys still need to determine if you're compatible on a fundamental level! I guarantee you if you start trying to make a long-term future happen before you're sure you want to marry him, it won't end well.

We bought a house and got engaged within a week---a matter of coincidence rather than planning---while I traveled back and forth for work. It was the absolute most stressful period of my entire life. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. I know you want to move quickly, but you have to give yourself time.

I think having a child would be the sticking point for him, as he already has two. So if he's dead against it (to my knowledge he's not against it), and/or if he can't provide the lifestyle (with me) to raise a child, with me, then I just can't continue the relationship. It would be sad and terrible. But if he doesn't want that and/or is unwilling to provide it, I can't give up what I want, and I won't.
So when I see him I will ask, and not accept the... what did you call it, weasel words....

Good for you.

Edited November 5, 2016 by lana-banana

November 6, 2016

I've read this whole thread, and I don't think I have much more to add that others haven't already explored in depth, but Venus, there's one thing I don't think anyone has really touched on yet.

You see this whole move as "sacrifice" and once you get there, you have to be willing to let go of that and just see it as a new start. Because I can easily elder you getting there, all these differences that the two of you have becoming actual concerns that you have to face once the excitement wears off, and you throwing it back in his face. You can't try to reason through things with "I uprooted my life for this" because you'll both get resentful.

I'm not saying you will do this, but for anyone who actually is uprooting their life, it's an easy argument to jump to, and I could see that taking everything south.

My boyfriend has very different ways of handling stress, money, friends, and time than I do, so I get it. And honestly the hardest part of our relationship was the 4-8 month span when the new love part wore off and we actually had to talk about and deal with our different views. It seems like it'll be a lot of compromise, with the added stress of your move, -!: I just hope if you make that move and you really love him, you will leave sacrifice and baggage at the door for a bit. Seeing the world through my very different from mr's boyfriends eyes has been enlightening and wonderful, but it was hard to get there, and I'm sure the LDR portion of this makes you feel like you have a lot riding on it from day one.

I'm rooting for you, but the longer you wait the more pressure it's going to create. I wish the best for you though.

November 7, 2016

I just wanted to mention that the talk about him coming out here is just another avenue, it's not necessarily backtracking. We even talked about it today and he said that if I moved there, in time, we could make a plan to come back to CA... because he likes it here also, there is work for him, he has family out here, and I could be closer to my family. It would be in the future. He was just offering as an option. I know he would be open to it, partly because I have shared with him how hard it is for me to leave here, and how close I am with my parents, etc. We seemed to settle on an agreement that, I move there, I could stay with him until I found a job and had some income coming in, then I could decide when I was ready and able to get my own place. And then in the future, maybe after this contract is up for him, we could look into moving back to CA. He mentioned maybe we could get a place closer to his family out here, then I'd still be close to my parents too. I'm into that idea. It would mean we'd live in another county of CA than I do now but still close distance to my family also. He has always talked about coming here, but no delivery, same as me talking about moving there... although it's a plan or idea for the future. I don't want to be hopping around jobs either, and I want to settle in one place, but that idea doesn't sound bad at all. He admitted to me that it is scary for him to think of leaving too, same as me.

I think about, what if I move there, and then he has no intention to leave or incentive to.. and I really want to, well, that's in the future but I already know that I'm pretty darn sure I want to return to CA. The thing is I already can see that if something is important to me, then he will want to honor that. I would be going to New Orleans to live with him and date in the same city, yes, to see if we are compatible (his intention also), and I do think at this point (I have not asked yet and gotten an answer that has satisfied), that we both can see marrying each other but it is wise to see day to day first. A page back or so someone had suggested when we talk face to face that I ask him if he can see himself getting married within the year's time and to be interested or open to having a child soon after that, etc. I do need to know that I would be moving there with that mutual intention. Otherwise it really seems foolish for me to go. If he's offering "weasel words" then it doesn't make me feel very comfortable packing up all my belongings and putting them in storage and moving across the country. I need to know that for sure, or to the best of my ability. I can tell that he is seriously thinking about the future with me, he DOES talk about and thinks about long term and marriage and we have had plenty of discussions about those things.

I still don't believe you need to live together to learn if you want to marry someone though. However, under these circumstances, since I won't have a job to move to, I would need to stay with him until I get one, it won't take long knowing me. Living on my own gives me a buffer, a safety net so to speak, to objectively observe and be in the relationship and date in a normal capacity. If I don't like it, I don't have to be in his house or with him. It would be on my own terms. And honestly, I prefer it that way until I have a commitment (and yes, until I know for sure that I want to marry him).

I had a heart wrenching conversation with my dad yesterday. He is totally against this whole idea of me moving there. He doesn't feel it's right, probably the fatherly protection coming out. He thinks my bf won't want to have another child, isn't interested in having a 'new' life, like bringing a child into the world, already divorced with two grown kids.. he said maybe it'd be different if I already had a child from a previous relationship, a little older and we could join families. But to start over? He doesn't see it happening. He also thinks that there's no need to live together to determine if you want to get married (I fully agree with him on that).. he said exactly what I think, "what do you think you're going to find out by living together? That someone snores or has annoying habits? That won't influence love." And I think that's what my bf might be thinking, that he wants to see how I live 24 hours a day and if I have some issue or do something he doesn't like so much. I don't think, and I stand by this, that you need to know those things if you really love someone. There is no amount of snoring or bothersome habit that will trump love and commitment. My dad says that by the end of this year, something needs to give or I need to end the relationship. He can't tell me to not move there but he thinks it's a mistake. He thinks that by now my bf should know for nearly certain or for certain that he wants to make a commitment. Dad says he is clearly gun shy of commitment being kinda recently divorced, already two grown kids, and having a younger woman with no ties... it seems too convenient for him. Me moving there would be giving him a free ride making no commitment. Dad says if I move there, he doesn't see bf changing anything because why should he? He has what he wants, with no strings attached. He thinks if I go there, he wouldn't propose because he already has what he wants, me being there and dating him and sleeping with him. (I know that sounds cynical but I can't help but wonder if he has some foresight here). Dad says he needs to come to me, end of story. He thinks me moving there is too big of a risk, to uproot my job, not have any of my belongings and sacrificing so much, for absolutely no commitment at all from my bf.

This was hard to hear. There are some things I agree with that he said. I think he may be right about not really wanting to start a new family, although I don't really know that, it is just speculation. I also thought how sad my dad would be if I left, and he wants me to have the things I want in life, he wants to see me married to the right guy and have a family finally. He worries that my bf is noncommittal and is just killing time with me, and isn't able or willing to give me what I want. Fatherly concern, obviously. He's a tough critic of any guy I have dated. He says my bf and very nice and he loves me, but that's not enough. I can see why he would say this. I mean, he's probably one of my biggest influences in my life, and loves me unconditionally, so I have to take his opinion into consideration. One thing I do know for sure, although I may not have the foresight, the only way I would really find out is if I was with him in a normal day to day relationship. So, I could hope that one day next year he comes here, or I could take matters into my own hands and find out for myself instead of waiting on him. Sounds more appealing. I'm not really one who likes to wait around on other people.

I told bf that my dad is against me moving there, and he is against us living together, and it's not that my father influences my actions and can dictate what I do, but I do have to take his opinion into consideration. To my surprise my bf says he does understand why my dad would say that, and he would say the same thing to his daughter. So now, bf thinks that he should talk to my dad and get to know him more. I told him maybe he should. That would be good. So, he might. Maybe when he's here. I could see that happening actually. Like all good fathers, my dad has been very watchful of every guy I've ever dated, his main concern is that I'm happy and of course he doesn't ever want to see me waiting on a man. He's old fashioned and that's perfectly ok. I guess I am too and I can see my bf is also. The fact that he's a father too, I'm sure that makes him more understanding.

There's a huge part of me that wishes he would just come here to live, like yesterday. Even just temporarily, instead of me packing all my things into storage (for a cost) and quitting my stable job and moving across the country for a guy who I don't think is ready yet or isn't 100% sure he wants to marry me, and I'm not 100% sure I want to marry him, and we have a potentially a really big conflict about the marriage time frame and having a child goal. I know this is why many people break up, because one person wants kids and the other doesn't. It's happened to a couple friends I know. It doesn't mean they didn't love each other.

I wish I could just stay put, he would get out here right away, and then we could see... but, he's not going to be able to get out here right away, it could be 4-6 months from now, or more, so I have to decide if I'm willing to wait, or I just bite the bullet and do it myself. I might feel pretty good knowing I was the brave and ballsy one. I've done it before, I can do it again.

In my mind, I can't help it, me moving there seems like I'm offering more of a commitment than he is. Am I wrong for thinking that? I feel like very few people here have agreed with me on that, or have agreed in part of what my dad said.

Touching on the post above, I know I need to give a little, I can't always let my pride get in the way, I can't always dig my heels in too much. I do that a lot, I've noticed.

I still need to talk to him in person, I haven't been able to do that and we haven't seen each other for two months now. It sounds like he has a week off for Thanksgiving so he's doing all he can to get here then. It could be sooner but Thanksgiving is looking good. We've already talked a lot about all these things but I just feel talking in person is better. I still will be asking him about the marriage and child time frame, I have to do that. I don't feel he has already answered that question. I can back off for now but when the time comes to talk in person I will be bringing that up.

What if his response is, "I'm open to it." I mean, what else do I need to hear? Is it a yes or a no? I think so. Like Lana said, if he says he's open to it, is that going to be enough? I don't know. Should it be?? He can't make definitive promises, can he? Same for me at this point. Am I right?

I still am planning to move there but boy is it hard to do. I need to see him and be with him in person to get some answers as best as I can. At this point, I have to agree with my dad, by the end of this year if no concrete actions are being taken or plans being executed, and no intent to commit (in the near future) is taking place, then it's time to end the relationship.

I feel many times that we are making progress, with the plans and talking about what WE would like to do in the future, that would be in the best interest of both of us, even though sometimes the conversation spins with thoughts and ideas. Coming to an agreement is progress.

One other point of progress, I am in the process of buying a newer car now. I had been looking for the past month casually but my old car has some problems again and now I've got more of a fire under me. That may be serendipity that this just happened because my idea was that if I moved I would need a good reliable car to get me around there and to get across the country for that matter. So it looks as if that will be happening very soon! Probably this month. So that's a step in the right direction.

My bf has been an active participant in my car search and is checking in on me to see what progress is being made. I appreciate that. I told him maybe when he's here he can go with me to test drive and talk to the private sellers and check it out since he's good with cars. He is very concerned that I have a good safe car and wants me to have something that would drive well across the country or for when I live in LA. He was so worried when I told him I was having car problems, he said he was very concerned for my safety and offered his family members to help and all kinds of suggestions for me, I appreciated that he's always been so caring and protective towards me. I think he would be that way as a husband, those are very good qualities. He likes to take an active part in and wants to help me better my life. I appreciate that very much. He's got my back. That's so important.

Edited November 7, 2016 by venusishername

November 7, 2016

Hi Venus I haven't posted much in this thread nor read a lot since the whole finances discussion quite a few pages back and I cannot believe you are still riding on the opinions here for the next steps of your relationship and nothing has been decided yet.

I really wish you would just give your guy a chance to show you what he's capable of with his actions and that you would stop trying to define him by all the conjecture here.

I say that in the most supportive way possible.

I have to respectfully disagree with your father and those saying that being open to having children isn't good enough. In relationships and when dealing with others, you won't always get the perfect response exactly as you'd like. You are with a man who is already a dad and in his mind after having his kids he may have decided he was done with fathering more kids. And he meets you, he falls in love and decides now here's a woman I love enough to be willing to open that possibility up again. Why isn't that good enough? Why can't you trust that if he says he is open he actually is? Why can't you accept that anything short of jumping on one leg for joy at the idea of having more kids, isn't the kiss of death or the proverbial nail in the coffin?

I understand you've chosen to live out your relationship here with everyone's input but I really worry about the direction this relationship will take when you've become so accustomed to overanalyzing your every step to this degree and I worry that you have so many opinions racing around your mind about this man and relationship that it will actually inhibit it's healthy progression and growth.

You are officially paralyzed in analysis and there's nothing we can say that will enure what will actually happen with your man. You have to go out there and just see for yourself.

I want you to succeed so bad and want you to get everything you want but I really don't see it happening if you keep this up.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

November 7, 2016

I can't believe what I'm reading. How can you call yourself independent with a straight face when you apparently need your boyfriend and your father to make decisions for you? I understand the importance of family but aren't you embarrassed at your own complete lack of agency? News flash: this is not a Jane Austen novel where you can sit around listlessly and the men in your lives will take care of everything. You are a 32-year-old woman in the United States of America. You're a mature adult, not some blushing ingenue. Whatever happened to the Venus who ignored all our well-intentioned advice and did what she wanted? They may not always have been good decisions but at least they were decisions, damn it!

I hate to say it but anyone who inspires this level of angst and frustration is probably not the man for you.

November 7, 2016

We even talked about it today and he said that if I moved there, in time, we could make a plan to come back to CA... because he likes it here also, there is work for him, he has family out here, and I could be closer to my family. It would be in the future. He was just offering as an option.

People can't seriously explore FUTURE options when no action has been taken on the first step. You don't even know if you're compatible.

I would be going to New Orleans to live with him and date in the same city, yes, to see if we are compatible (his intention also), and I do think at this point (I have not asked yet and gotten an answer that has satisfied), that we both can see marrying each other but it is wise to see day to day first.

I think it has been well established here that probably he, like many of us on your thread here, would require the EXPERIENCE of day to day life before getting to the point of seriously considering marriage.

If that is the case, you won't be getting the answer that will "satisfy" you unless you take the step of being together (not necessarily in the same house). And you still may not get the satisfactory answer, since he's clearly not goal oriented towards marriage like you are..

A page back or so someone had suggested when we talk face to face that I ask him if he can see himself getting married within the year's time and to be interested or open to having a child soon after that, etc. I do need to know that I would be moving there with that mutual intention. Otherwise it really seems foolish for me to go. If he's offering "weasel words" then it doesn't make me feel very comfortable packing up all my belongings and putting them in storage and moving across the country. I need to know that for sure, or to the best of my ability. I can tell that he is seriously thinking about the future with me, he DOES talk about and thinks about long term and marriage and we have had plenty of discussions about those things.

The more I read, the more I think you should break up. You are putting an untenable amount of pressure on this relationship. No new relationship could sustain it - especially since you've spent only a little amount of actual time together.

Your father:

He thinks my bf won't want to have another child, isn't interested in having a 'new' life, like bringing a child into the world, already divorced with two grown kids..

I kind of agree. It's not just about him being open to having another child - it's about you being open to having NO children. If you're not, you need to be looking for a partner who ACTIVELY wants children. Quickly.

He thinks me moving there is too big of a risk, to uproot my job, not have any of my belongings and sacrificing so much, for absolutely no commitment at all from my bf.

Again, in a way I do agree. Everything is profoundly conditional with you in this relationship. You are NOT okay with this risk factor. That is painfully clear. You are NOT going to get the pre-moving commitment you are desperate for from this guy. He may or may not end up wanting to marry you, he wants to get to know you. MAYBE it will get to that point.

I don't think there is anything "weasley" about it, it's just the way he is going to approach this. It's clearly not compatible with the way you need to approach it.

In my mind, I can't help it, me moving there seems like I'm offering more of a commitment than he is. Am I wrong for thinking that? I feel like very few people here have agreed with me on that, or have agreed in part of what my dad said.

I for one have agreed in part with what your dad said, but probably not in the way you are hoping.

"Commitment" is not measurable in the way you seem to want it to be. You moving down there does not equal he needs to give a promise of probable marriage. All it equates to is you being willing to make the step necessary to take this relationship further. He is not mobile at this time, you are. If you want to see if you and this man MAY have a future together, you need to go. If you aren't sure, or keep up with the avalanche of conditions, just do all of you (boyfriend, father and yourself) a favor and stop the bleeding.

Touching on the post above, I know I need to give a little, I can't always let my pride get in the way, I can't always dig my heels in too much. I do that a lot, I've noticed.

this is not about "giving a little."

What if his response is, "I'm open to it." I mean, what else do I need to hear? Is it a yes or a no? I think so.

It's not a yes or a no. But you obviously NEED a yes or a no.

As many people have said on this thread, you really, really need to deal with what's actually in front of you. Which is:

he loves you

he's not moving to CA anytime soon

he's not going to talk seriously about marriage until you have a solid real time relationship, IF EVER.

he's not sure about kids

unstable financial life

living in dad's home

That means you would need to go there open to staying there, not be married, not have kids, be comfortable about the financial situation, and either live on your own or be ok with moving to the dad's house.

This is what is available to you at this time, and it's all you have to work with.

If you are NOT open to that scenario (and you're not), BREAK UP. You can't make this move based on all the stuff going on in your head. You must deal with what is in front of you.

If you need to go through this further with the guy, why not just pare it down to the basics:

"I will move there if you promise that you intend to marry me after X amount of time, and soon thereafter have a child with me." Based on a yes or no answer, you can make a decision.

November 7, 2016

I can't believe what I'm reading. How can you call yourself independent with a straight face when you apparently need your boyfriend and your father to make decisions for you? I understand the importance of family but aren't you embarrassed at your own complete lack of agency? News flash: this is not a Jane Austen novel where you can sit around listlessly and the men in your lives will take care of everything. You are a 32-year-old woman in the United States of America. You're a mature adult, not some blushing ingenue. Whatever happened to the Venus who ignored all our well-intentioned advice and did what she wanted? They may not always have been good decisions but at least they were decisions, damn it!
I hate to say it but anyone who inspires this level of angst and frustration is probably not the man for you.

I know you are frustrated with me. I’m also very frustrated, Lana. Not seeing him in two months, and still no guaranteed date when he will be here, added to my disappointment that he’s not coming this weekend as we had been talking about for a month… is just prolonging things. It also gives me more time to spin in my own thoughts. I would be in angst and over analyzing any guy I was serious with. It’s probably why I was single for so long.

Of course I’m not expecting a man to take care of everything. I’m just saying that my dad’s opinion means a lot to me; I can’t ignore his opinion. It doesn’t mean I need him or my boyfriend to make decisions for me.

I’m really unhappy and uneasy that my bf has not settled on a date to come here. It was going to be this weekend, now it’s probably Thanksgiving, maybe it won’t happen then and I won’t see him til Christmas and that is just too long. I am spinning because I haven’t seen him and have no idea when I will. It’s his work schedule, not that he doesn’t want to be here. It sucks.

I really wish you would just give your guy a chance to show you what he's capable of with his actions and that you would stop trying to define him by all the conjecture here.
I say that in the most supportive way possible.
I have to respectfully disagree with your father and those saying that being open to having children isn't good enough. In relationships and when dealing with others, you won't always get the perfect response exactly as you'd like. You are with a man who is already a dad and in his mind after having his kids he may have decided he was done with fathering more kids. And he meets you, he falls in love and decides now here's a woman I love enough to be willing to open that possibility up again. Why isn't that good enough? Why can't you trust that if he says he is open he actually is? Why can't you accept that anything short of jumping on one leg for joy at the idea of having more kids, isn't the kiss of death or the proverbial nail in the coffin?
I understand you've chosen to live out your relationship here with everyone's input but I really worry about the direction this relationship will take when you've become so accustomed to overanalyzing your every step to this degree and I worry that you have so many opinions racing around your mind about this man and relationship that it will actually inhibit it's healthy progression and growth.
You are officially paralyzed in analysis and there's nothing we can say that will enure what will actually happen with your man. You have to go out there and just see for yourself.
I want you to succeed so bad and want you to get everything you want but I really don't see it happening if you keep this up.

Thank you for this. You are right. I am very frustrated that my boyfriend and I haven’t be able to see each other and that is causing me a lot of angst and time to overanalyze. That’s the downside to being apart.

I am very disappointed that after a month of planning our next visit, and checking flights weekly and debating about work schedules, that he can’t get out here after all until at the earliest Thanksgiving. (Still no guarantee on that either). Apparently this new position isn’t a plan ahead kind of work and he may not know for sure until the week before. It’s just really getting to me.

You’re right, there is nothing anyone can say that will ensure what will happen, I have to see for myself. It’s scary, I’m lonely and I don’t like feeling this way anymore.

I just want to see him.

November 7, 2016

Honestly - a relationship should look like an upward spiral, yours is plateaued at best. Correct me if I'm wrong, you met:

October 15

November 15 (1 month later)

December 15 (1 month later)

February 16 (2 months later)

April 16 (2 months later)

June 16 (2 months later)

September 16 (3 months later)

? (not decided)

So after the initial meet, you flied 3 times each, and the frequency is decreasing steadily. The math is not on your side.

How is the communication otherwise? Work MIGHT be the reason for this steady decline of meet-up times but I think there is more (of course the best judge of the situation is you)

November 7, 2016

Honestly - a relationship should look like an upward spiral, yours is plateaued at best. Correct me if I'm wrong, you met:
October 15
November 15 (1 month later)
December 15 (1 month later)
February 16 (2 months later)
April 16 (2 months later)
June 16 (2 months later)
September 16 (3 months later)
? (not decided)
So after the initial meet, you flied 3 times each, and the frequency is decreasing steadily. The math is not on your side.
How is the communication otherwise? Work MIGHT be the reason for this steady decline of meet-up times but I think there is more (of course the best judge of the situation is you)

Yeah, this is how I keep ‘spinning’, maybe too many cooks in the kitchen, right?!

Are you implying that he is avoiding coming here? What does it say to you that you feel the relationship has plateau? I don’t think that is the case. I think work and financial constraints (on both sides) have kept the meetings to every two months. What makes you think "it is more??"

I’ll correct you because you are wrong, not that I think we should be nitpicking anyway.

We met in October. He came November and end of December for holidays (much of that time was spent with his family too, and the second time he brought his son. I went for Valentine’s Day, and again in April. He came July and we had extended vacation to Mexico. I went September. Now he’s coming again in November. That’s every two months max so far. I have kept a calendar between visits and it has always (with exception of first two times he came here) been that way. Yes, this month is different because he just started a new contract, unfortunately this company is not so on top of their schedule, and I also ran out of time off because I’ve been traveling a lot this past year. He had offered to pay my way remember? I was going to go there this weekend, if he couldn’t, but the cost for me to get out there was over $500 or sold out, so for the time being, since it looks like Thanksgiving is almost certain, that’s what it will be. I don’t see why that will change. I may be able to go out there if he still doesn’t have a concrete schedule.

As for communication otherwise, there has been maybe one or two days max since we met that we have not communicated, and that was during my recent trip to the mountains with limited reception.

November 7, 2016

My fiance and I met at our old jobs in an industry that involved a lot of odd hours, late nights, and horrendous last-minute assignments. I can't count how many dates were canceled because of emergencies that kept us in the office up to 72 hours at a stretch. It was terrible. A big part of the reason we left is because we were so tired: tired of catching naps under our desks, tired of disappointing each other, tired of lives we couldn't predict. So I empathize with him on his uncertain schedule---and empathize with you on how much that sucks. But you have stressed your need for stability since the beginning. It doesn't look like he's ever going to have that, at least not to the point where he can be home on a reliable basis for nightly dinners or family time. Are you sure you can deal with that?

November 7, 2016

Sorry for nitpicking, just wanted to be helpful in some way

I told you my gut feeling is that he is / will be withdrawing when sensing pressure. But as said - you are the best judge of your own relationship.

I think any advice given before the next meeting is probably going to be increasing the spinning so I'm backing off for now. Let see how the next visit will be

Yeah, this is how I keep ‘spinning’, maybe too many cooks in the kitchen, right?!
Are you implying that he is avoiding coming here? What does it say to you that you feel the relationship has plateau? I don’t think that is the case. I think work and financial constraints (on both sides) have kept the meetings to every two months. What makes you think "it is more??"
I’ll correct you because you are wrong, not that I think we should be nitpicking anyway.
We met in October. He came November and end of December for holidays (much of that time was spent with his family too, and the second time he brought his son. I went for Valentine’s Day, and again in April. He came July and we had extended vacation to Mexico. I went September. Now he’s coming again in November. That’s every two months max so far. I have kept a calendar between visits and it has always (with exception of first two times he came here) been that way. Yes, this month is different because he just started a new contract, unfortunately this company is not so on top of their schedule, and I also ran out of time off because I’ve been traveling a lot this past year. He had offered to pay my way remember? I was going to go there this weekend, if he couldn’t, but the cost for me to get out there was over $500 or sold out, so for the time being, since it looks like Thanksgiving is almost certain, that’s what it will be. I don’t see why that will change. I may be able to go out there if he still doesn’t have a concrete schedule.

As for communication otherwise, there has been maybe one or two days max since we met that we have not communicated, and that was during my recent trip to the mountains with limited reception.

November 7, 2016

Hi Venus,

My advice is to give yourself a break from the analysis and wait until you are face to face with him later this month. It's causing you lots of stress and could harm your relationship. Keep things light and fun over phone and build on the positives of your relationship.

When you see him lay your cards on the table about what you want. Be crystal clear on non negotiables. If he sees this as pressure and waffles, so be it. This is your life and you're writing the script. Does he want to be part of your life? If yes he will do whatever it takes. That is what you want from your man, to do whatever it takes to win you over.

Others may disagree but if I were on your timetable for marriage and kids I would want a proposal before moving under the circumstances. He would need to express that he wants to be married to you and start a family. Something stronger than "I'm open it it."

When it rains it pours

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