When it rains it pours

[Sometymeswhy]

The part that concerns some of us readers is the sudden switch. You were all set to move to NO with a definite timeline and now he says he is interested in moving to Cali with fuzzy time line and plans. Could be stalling on his part or sincere desire to ease your anxiety about leaving your beloved home state, job and proximity to parents. Maybe he is moving mountains to be with you on your terms. Hope so but time will tell.

 

At this point you can say ok fine I'll bag my plans to move so come on out. If after six weeks or so you see no concrete movement/excuses then I would hop back on a dating site and chat with some other dude because there is no time to play games. Frankly the fact that you are chatting with another guy says you are more than open to exploring alternative options and there's nothing wrong with that given the volitivity/uncertainty of this situation coupled with some personality incompatibilities that are potentially problematic.

 

This relationship seems more complicated than typical, causing you so much stress and second guessing. I'd ask is it worth it? Is he worth it? Should be without question he's worth it. You are meant to be together. If not then you are free to explore other options.

 

You have learned a lot from this experience, honed in on your desires and deal breakers. If this doesn't work you will come out ok, more confident and badass.

[NuevoYorko]

Venus, you really sound like a pair of non-committal people. That might be a big point of compatibility between you. The way both of you are conducting this relationship is evidently working for you, even though reading about it is frustrating to most of us. Seriously, though, who cares what Internet strangers think.

 

I just hope that inside of you, unrelated to all the stuff you pour out here on this forum, you're being honest with yourself. This situation seems to be a good fit, but the "family unit" idea isn't going to find a place in it.

[Poe77]

Dude - that's like tuning in to S.2 of Supernatural and wanting an update as to where things are at now (S.12).

 

Maybe read a few pages from, like, six months ago.

 

I did I read up to like page 5..my eyes are honestly not that great anymore even with my glasses figured it couldn't hurt to ask for a quick recap from the op not to mention allot of people wont bother to even look at this point so it would kinda be advantageous to her if she still wants valid advice far as SN im good we have Netflix I can fast forward and rewind till my hearts delight...lol

[venusishername]

It's evident you're feeling quite frustrated. I'm sorry for that. But don't say it's about your roommate when it isn't. You just really don't want him living with you.

You are halfway right, I don’t want him “crashing” at my place, but mainly because I have a roommate he couldn’t stay for longer than a couple weeks/one month. He’s not moving into my place anyway, this is all speculation.

Venus, with all due respect, that's absolutely derailing your plans. You guys were moving forward in a quasi-concrete way (pack up and be gone by January, drive down to NOLA, get your own place shortly thereafter) and now you're down to "well maybe he will or I will at some point, maybe, possibly". That doesn't sound like a priority at all. It sounds like stalling.

Ok. Call it what you want. The real question is… WHAT NOW???

Yeah, none of that constitutes concrete plans in any way. The grand development here is "maybe he is more convinced", emphasis on maybe. How is that a good thing?

Well, it means I wouldn’t have to move away. I could stay near my friends and family. I could keep my job. I could keep my place. There are a lot of benefits. But there is nothing guaranteed now if I wait for him. Plus, waiting on other people to take action is usually disappointing *(I’ve found).

Did you address any of the issues about engagement when he visited? I know he mentioned he wants to be engaged for several years before marriage and you clearly don't. Did you come to an agreement about that?

No. I don’t think he meant that he wanted to be engaged for a couple years. Considering I wouldn’t live with him before engagement and a wedding date, a long engagement probably wouldn’t happen. I honestly think it was just a passing thought.

The part that concerns some of us readers is the sudden switch. You were all set to move to NO with a definite timeline and now he says he is interested in moving to Cali with fuzzy time line and plans. Could be stalling on his part or sincere desire to ease your anxiety about leaving your beloved home state, job and proximity to parents. Maybe he is moving mountains to be with you on your terms. Hope so but time will tell.

At this point you can say ok fine I'll bag my plans to move so come on out. If after six weeks or so you see no concrete movement/excuses then I would hop back on a dating site and chat with some other dude because there is no time to play games. Frankly the fact that you are chatting with another guy says you are more than open to exploring alternative options and there's nothing wrong with that given the volitivity/uncertainty of this situation coupled with some personality incompatibilities that are potentially problematic.

This relationship seems more complicated than typical, causing you so much stress and second guessing. I'd ask is it worth it? Is he worth it? Should be without question he's worth it. You are meant to be together. If not then you are free to explore other options. You have learned a lot from this experience, honed in on your desires and deal breakers. If this doesn't work you will come out ok, more confident and badass.

Thank you. But HOLD ON. Ummm, I am NOT chatting with another guy. I think that was from the poster who mistakenly read the beginning of this thread, like from two years ago. TRUST me, I haven’t been chatting with another guy since I met my boyfriend last year. Do you mean that I SHOULD be talking with other men? I don’t think I can do that. I’m either all in a relationship or totally single. I can’t do it half assed.

I hope it is his sincere desire to ease your anxiety about leaving your beloved home state, job and proximity to parents. Maybe he is moving mountains to be with you on your terms.

I really hope so too.

So. By the end of this year… you are saying I can say forget my plans and then if I see no concrete action on his part and no progress… then start being open to meet other men?

It just seems wrong. I would rather 1) move there as planned; or 2) break up at that point.

[venusishername]

Venus, you really sound like a pair of non-committal people. That might be a big point of compatibility between you. The way both of you are conducting this relationship is evidently working for you, even though reading about it is frustrating to most of us. Seriously, though, who cares what Internet strangers think.

I just hope that inside of you, unrelated to all the stuff you pour out here on this forum, you're being honest with yourself. This situation seems to be a good fit, but the "family unit" idea isn't going to find a place in it.

Your point is well taken. Thank you for pointing this out. You are right. Only a noncommittal person would be in a LDR for over a year and still have no definite firm plans to close the distance, only spotty and cloudy “probably” plans have been discussed. All talk and no action, on both sides.

I suppose this is why, at almost 33 years old, I’ve never agreed to marry when I had the chance, never had a successful relationship result in marriage, chose to not have a child when I had the opportunity, etc. I see I have avoided many commitments. I’m shying away from one now…. Keeping it at a safe distance. The thought of living together is absolutely terrifying to me, only because I’ve had such bad experiences with long term boyfriends before.

I don’t know how to reconcile this.

Back to my original question… what now??

[Sunkissedpatio]

What now?

 

You set timelines for yourself.

 

You don't walk away in the 11th hour.

 

You make the move (either way he comes to you or you go to him) you give it 6months (you choose the timespan) and get to know this guy under the same roof and if in that time period there is no progression in the relationship you call it quits because you still have a good 6 years of baby-making time.

 

Life isn't over at 33, nor will your life be over if you don't end up having babies.

 

You accept who and what you are. You accept all your decisions because it's YOUR life, not society's life.

 

Life is about making adjustments. It's about reconciling your preconceived notions, with your expectations and goals and your reality in this very moment.

 

It's about change, reinvention, and acceptance. And it's abut finding happiness the best way you can because things won't turned out as planned, often.

 

What's next is you stop being stunted by fears.

 

Go with what you DO know today.

 

You love this man. He loves you! The rest can and will work itself out together once you are both living the relationship day-to-day.

 

Stop fearing living together. Accept it might not work out. We all have to accept that whatever we choose to do "might not work out" You are breaking your personal rules about living with a man because of the circumstances. You live across the country from each other so you need to account for that. If this relationship does not work out you can go back to your rules full-force.

But in this particular case, all your rules are going to do is keep you single, in your head, and not in the moment.

 

These are the parts laid out in front of you, what do you plan to do with them?

[No_Go]

V, I read the last posts and I'm just telling you my personal opinion: move there! As you planned, of course unless he strongly objects. You're well over an year together, you want at least to know if he's a marriage material (you're not convinced at all now). He has good intentions but he seems to be a terrible planner. I won't leave it in his hands - I clearly see another year passing by, you being increasingly upset and still not engaged and baby-time approaching its end

 

Just go for it! Tell him firmly: I'm moving to NOLA on Jan 1, look forward to seeing each other day to day and go from there You have the plan, you thought it through in over 3 months! You know exactly what to do, how to do the move. It is time for you to take a leap of faith if you really want the family unit with him that you've been dreaming about.

 

PS. No guarantee that it will work but it is better to try and fail than live a life full of regrets for things that never happened.

 

PS2. The shock factor of such an decisive action from you will likely give you your answers very very fast. I won't be shocked if he indeed proposes shortly after you moving there. Otherwise he'd just keep dragging his feet imo..

Edited November 18, 2016 by No_Go

[GemmaUK]

Your point is well taken. Thank you for pointing this out. You are right. Only a noncommittal person would be in a LDR for over a year and still have no definite firm plans to close the distance, only spotty and cloudy “probably” plans have been discussed. All talk and no action, on both sides.

I suppose this is why, at almost 33 years old, I’ve never agreed to marry when I had the chance, never had a successful relationship result in marriage, chose to not have a child when I had the opportunity, etc. I see I have avoided many commitments. I’m shying away from one now…. Keeping it at a safe distance. The thought of living together is absolutely terrifying to me, only because I’ve had such bad experiences with long term boyfriends before.

I don’t know how to reconcile this.

Back to my original question… what now??

 

What now?

You on your own need to decide whether to commit.

He has actually done this before but you know and have had warnings from his kids about that relationship/If he has a back up work plan for when he can't do this job any longer then - has he told you? Have you asked?

 

I think he is pulling back because he knows you at not actually planning anything and only thinking - over thinking.

Over thinking can mean get the hell out! You have a heap load of concerns over what should be the most happy time of your life.

 

If it's not happy - and it isn't then you need to make a choice.

But I think you are too scared to say no, end of.

 

Did I seriously catch this that you are chatting with another guy online though?

 

If you are - end it with NOLA guy.

You are not commited to HIM.

[NuevoYorko]

Did I seriously catch this that you are chatting with another guy online though?

No, she isn't. That is the misunderstanding of another poster.

[GemmaUK]

No, she isn't. That is the misunderstanding of another poster.

 

Ah! OK.

Thanks!

[Sometymeswhy]

Sorry for misreading idea that you were taking to someone online. My bad. But it shows that you have feelings for only this special guy...shows depth of your love.

 

I disagree with some that you need to live under the same roof in order to determine compatibility. Being in the same city would certainly help. I never lived with my husband prior to marriage either. I think it's risky. On one hand it could speed things up by accelerating the relationship. On the other hand it gives a guy or girl an opportunity to stall and philosophize about marriage is just a piece of paper after all and look for reasons not to. When married you are bound to work things out and not be tempted to bail out. He wants to wake up next to you every day and lock you down. There's a price for that. It's marriage.

[lana-banana]

No. I don’t think he meant that he wanted to be engaged for a couple years. Considering I wouldn’t live with him before engagement and a wedding date, a long engagement probably wouldn’t happen. I honestly think it was just a passing thought.

 

This is not the first time you've decided he didn't mean what he said. Venus, this is literally what you wrote:

 

He said, well what if we were engaged, would I just move in? And then we could be engaged for a couple years. (Yeah, that’s right, he said a couple years). “Because we need to spend time getting to know each other and if we are really compatible.” I’m not sure if he was joking or being thoughtless, or serious. I said, “absolutely not. I’m not waiting around that long.” He laughed, he said it was just a thought. But I was very hurt by it. He said 2 years then?

 

His idea of a short-term engagement is two years. Even if you disagree, he didn't say he intends to default to your preference. It's not clear at all that you guys have the same opinions about engagement. If anything it seems like engagement is less about intent to marry and more as an intermediate step where he's still focused on determining your compatibility. At any rate he takes it far less seriously than you do. Is that okay?

Edited November 19, 2016 by lana-banana

[introverted1]

This is not the first time you've decided he didn't mean what he said. Venus, this is literally what you wrote:

 

 

 

His idea of a short-term engagement is two years. Even if you disagree, he didn't say he intends to default to your preference. It's not clear at all that you guys have the same opinions about engagement. If anything it seems like engagement is less about intent to marry and more as an intermediate step where he's still focused on determining your compatibility. At any rate he takes it far less seriously than you do. Is that okay?

 

I actually have a slightly different take on this exchange (and yes, I recall then churn when Venus first posted about it).

 

I think he sees engagement as a means to an end, with the end being living together, not necessarily marriage or even determining compatibility.

 

Someone said a few posts back that V and her guy are the ultimate noncommittal couple and that family life is going to be a tough fit in the current dynamic. I am probably paraphrasing poorly but I thought the comment was brilliant, especially the part about a family unit not being a likely outcome.

 

Venus, you've mentioned that he cannot afford to support you if you have a child and that you actually no longer want to stay home, even for a little while. This means you and your bf would be sharing equally in the added work that comes from having a child. Do you think your bf is the type of guy who will want to share 3am feedings and diaper changes? Take time off for doctor's visits? Stay up all night with a colicky baby? Do you have a support system do you have in place for the times his contract has him working 12-hour days and you have to juggle your job and a baby alone? I think in some ways your bf may be more pragmatic than you are on this issue which is why he says he is "open to" having a child, but doesn't express any firm intention.

 

Again, all of this points to the need for you two to date in the same location. That's the only way you are going to determine true compatibility. Right now you are both riding the highs and lows that come with an LDR, but you need to see what things are like when you are on a steady path.

[Poe77]

Did I seriously catch this that you are chatting with another guy online though?

 

If you are - end it with NOLA guy.

You are not commited to HIM.

 

That was me I came in on this on like page 2 and back then she was indeed talking to two at once I guess she stayed with guy # 1 and things got more serious? that what I take from it all anyways..

[introverted1]

p.s. I find it really unlikely that your bf is going to uproot his life to move to CA and start over job-wise while living in his own much smaller, much more expensive, apartment alone. What did he say when you discussed this?

[clia]

That was me I came in on this on like page 2 and back then she was indeed talking to two at once I guess she stayed with guy # 1 and things got more serious? that what I take from it all anyways..

 

She met a guy about a year ago and they are in a LDR. Go back to the posts starting around October 2015 to catch up.

[lana-banana]

Happy Thanksgiving, Venus! We're (me and fiancé-banana) thinking of you. How are you doing?

[venusishername]

What now? You set timelines for yourself. You don't walk away in the 11th hour.

 

You make the move (either way he comes to you or you go to him) you give it 6months (you choose the timespan) and get to know this guy under the same roof and if in that time period there is no progression in the relationship you call it quits because you still have a good 6 years of baby-making time.

 

Life isn't over at 33, nor will your life be over if you don't end up having babies.

 

You accept who and what you are. You accept all your decisions because it's YOUR life, not society's life.

 

Life is about making adjustments. It's about reconciling your preconceived notions, with your expectations and goals and your reality in this very moment.

 

It's about change, reinvention, and acceptance. And it's abut finding happiness the best way you can because things won't turned out as planned, often.

 

What's next is you stop being stunted by fears.

 

Go with what you DO know today.

 

You love this man. He loves you! The rest can and will work itself out together once you are both living the relationship day-to-day.

 

Stop fearing living together. Accept it might not work out. We all have to accept that whatever we choose to do "might not work out" You are breaking your personal rules about living with a man because of the circumstances. You live across the country from each other so you need to account for that. If this relationship does not work out you can go back to your rules full-force.

But in this particular case, all your rules are going to do is keep you single, in your head, and not in the moment.

 

These are the parts laid out in front of you, what do you plan to do with them?

I liked your post, and your comment about I can't walk away in the 11th hour is really resonating with me since I read it the other day. I realize I have a difficult time with commitment... the fact that this is long distance has added a dynamic that I haven't experienced before.

I like what you said about knowing it will be ok if it does or if it doesn't work out, no matter what I am responsible with my decisions and I can adapt and take care of my life and myself. This takes a lot of courage, as you've pointed out.

 

I disagree with some that you need to live under the same roof in order to determine compatibility. Being in the same city would certainly help. I never lived with my husband prior to marriage either. I think it's risky. On one hand it could speed things up by accelerating the relationship. On the other hand it gives a guy or girl an opportunity to stall and philosophize about marriage is just a piece of paper after all and look for reasons not to. When married you are bound to work things out and not be tempted to bail out. He wants to wake up next to you every day and lock you down. There's a price for that. It's marriage.

Yes, I feel the same. I can agree to disagree with many posters (and some of my friends) on this point. If I was younger, (and I did do this), I wouldn't think twice about living with a boyfriend... but I agree with you, it's too risky. It may work for some people but I don't think it will work for me anymore. Maybe I'm old school, practical, whatever you want to call it, but I don't think living together is or should be a requirement to determine compatibility. Not at all. You won't have ALL of the answers to all of the questions or concerns or unknowns...sometimes you just have to make the best decision with what you have in front of you, like you said, and take a leap of faith.. knowing that no matter what, it will be ok and you COMMIT to making it work and building a life together. If you love someone and they love you and you are compatible in many ways and are growing together, and you can see yourself marrying that person... well by all means, living together should be the the icing on the cake and not a means to an end. That's how I see it and I'm not budging on that one.

 

His idea of a short-term engagement is two years. Even if you disagree, he didn't say he intends to default to your preference. It's not clear at all that you guys have the same opinions about engagement. If anything it seems like engagement is less about intent to marry and more as an intermediate step where he's still focused on determining your compatibility. At any rate he takes it far less seriously than you do. Is that okay?

I'm not sure that's true, Lana.. it's just something he said in passing once. I don't think I would stay with him if we had a two year engagement. After two years TOTAL I would say it's time to end the relationship or have a wedding date. That's me. Let's say he proposed and we didn't set a wedding date. That wouldn't be ok with me. I take this very seriously. And I don't see anything wrong with that because I DO want marriage. 2 years of dating is enough time to know if you want to marry someone or break up. I truly believe that. At least those are my standards now. I didn't used to be that way and that was too bad. I wish I was.

 

p.s. I find it really unlikely that your bf is going to uproot his life to move to CA and start over job-wise while living in his own much smaller, much more expensive, apartment alone. What did he say when you discussed this?

I was wondering the same. But he seemed kind of excited talking about finding a place or even maybe staying with family until things settled here. I told him if he wanted he could stay TEMPORARILY with me upon moving here, but he would not be moving in because I live with a roommate. Not one WEEK, but I think a month would be a reasonable amount of time.

I would consider living with him IF we were engaged and IF we had a nearing wedding date.

Happy Thanksgiving, Venus! We're (me and fiancé-banana) thinking of you. How are you doing?

Hi Lana, and fiancé-bana! Happy Thanksgiving to you too. I have had a busy week and weekend. I just bought my new car today!! Finally, after months of planning. So that's been a big stress over the past couple weeks and now the COMMITMENT of a new(er) car and payments and all that, trips to the bank, tomorrow a day at AAA and Discount Tires, money, Ah! But it feels good and I feel great about that. Milestone in my life, this is the nicest car I've had and I feel I've earned it and I'm doing well for myself. Scary but it's going to be fine.

Just got home after a few days with my parents and cousins.

 

 

Well, I have been wanting to post for awhile since I have come to a decision. I know not many of you will like what I have to say, but it is what my heart says.

 

 

Once he told me that he wanted to come here and has since been talking about it, not concretely but consistently, as it is a goal... something he's working on... I realized that all the spinning thoughts I was having about moving to Louisiana was my intuition telling me it wasn't what I wanted to do. I was willing to do it. But I realized that once he seemed so excited about the idea of coming here, I felt such a load of pressure off. It just didn't feel right. I was willing to go for the sake of the relationship... to see living in the same city it would work out... but if he is willing to do it, by all means, I have always wanted that and I think he should. He loves CA a lot more than I love LA. He has family there and friends... I don't. There's more opportunity here, it's gorgeous and this is my home. I couldn't bear to leave my parents and friends of course. I have a good job. I love my place and I decided I'm not willing to put all my stuff in storage to collect dust and add that as a monthly expense. I decided I would be giving up too much... and like my dad said (whether he's right or not)- it would be too much of a sacrifice.. with no commitment.

 

 

I decided, that since I am very serious about having a relationship that is leading to marriage (meaning I'm not going to date someone who I don't see myself marrying, and vice versa), I also don't want to be moving back and forth across the country, living in temporary housing, having to change jobs frequently (for example if I moved there and then soon after we moved to CA)..I really want to SETTLE DOWN. I don't want to be moving across the country. This is where I want to stay. Now I would consider moving with him to LA in the future, if we were married. But there is no way I'm willing to go there with the idea of "let's just see if we can be compatible in the same city". I'm just not willing to take that risk.

I realize the importance of living in the same city first, before getting engaged. But I just am not willing to be the one to make the first move. It doesn't mean I don't love him. It's just the way I feel and I can't help it. Right or wrong, whether other people would do the same or not, it is the way I feel.

 

I think the conversation I had with my dad sealed the deal. I know he is looking out for my best interests and doesn't want to see me give up so much for someone who isn't committing to me. Again, call it old school but I have to believe he's right! Because that's what my heart has been telling me all along. I just finally realized it. And now I'm feeling more confident than ever.

 

 

Now. What I am about to say is hard for me to admit. I realize my inaction may end the relationship. I realize he may drag his feet. I realize he may change his mind, or have a change of heart, and decide to stay there. And it would be heartbreaking. But I'm willing to put my trust in him to follow through, and quickly. He may break my trust. He may not come. He may drag this out. But I'm about to hit a breaking point, and I can't deny it anymore.

 

I have come to a point that I no longer am willing to be in a long distance relationship. It isn't supporting my goals and desires. That's why I find it silly and a waste of time, after a year of dating, to not be making concrete actions and QUICKLY. I want to settle down, stay in one place for an extended period of time. I want to get married and have a child (or maybe two, if feasible), in the next couple of years. This is my time. If I'm ever going to have kids, it's going to be several years before I'm 40, at the very latest. Even then is much longer than I'd like.

 

 

I realize there is a time of patience, like for example waiting for his current contract to end. That is different. If he gave me a window of time in the early spring and plans and concrete action over the next month or so, of course I would want to wait. But if he doesn't, I'm not willing to wait!! That has been a hard pill for me to swallow. The fact that I'm not willing to wait much longer.

 

The long distance allure and excitement wore off for me a couple months ago. I don't want to be alone. I realize that I could move there. I get it. But my heart of hearts is telling me I don't have to, and I shouldn't. If he's serious about coming here, then he needs to make the first move.

 

I realize that this decision may end me up alone. I realize he could walk away and give up. I'm not giving up yet, I'm willing to wait if I see concrete action. But I can no longer have a long distance relationship. There is no way in hell I can sustain this for another year. It hurts, the circumstances are stacked against us due to the long distance... it's unfortunate that we don't live in the same city already. It is what it is, those are the cards we have been dealt. Now I'm dealing with my own cards.

 

I do love him. I think he's a great man and he is good for me, and good to me. He appreciates me for who I am, faults and all, and loves me truly. I think he has a good attitude on life and relationships and is a good balance for me. I think we may not be similar in all ways but in many ways we are and actually I can see that we have grown and become better versions of ourselves because of each other. He is a light in my life. I tell him that.

 

All this is scary. To think I could lose him. To think by my inaction and waiting for his action could risk losing the relationship and desire. I know this may not make sense to those of you telling me to just move there, but I have always been a stubborn person. And my pride gets in the way but in the end my hard-headedness has always done me more good, even if people think I'm being foolish and stubborn. I just know what I want and I'm not willing to wait on other people or let others' actions or inactions influence my own.

If he hadn't said he wanted to move here all along then I'm not sure if I would feel the same; I can't speculate... I just know what the facts are today.

 

I've been thinking about this so much. Maybe this decision will keep me single, or I will end up single because of this. I'm putting it on him to make the move. But I'm not sure I'm willing to wait much longer. I have been discouraged lately because not a whole lot of action has happened and it's been over a year now since we met. Obviously moving across the country is a big deal (to me and to my bf), not something to be done impulsively. Clearly we had to take this time to date and get to know each other to see if it would be something worth pursuing. It took this amount of time, and that's fair. But now it's coming to a time to move forward or end it.

 

This is where I'm at, and I think I've come to a final decision. And I feel pretty good about it. Nervous, but confident.

 

He will be coming in the end of December for the holiday. There will be family time on both sides then, depending on when he can take off. I'm going to have to lay it on the line then. It's very hard for me to tell him this. I've been wanting to but it is difficult.

 

Basically what it boils down to is: "if you're willing to move here, to give it a chance, then I will not plan to move first to LA like we had originally talked about. I would consider moving back there with you if we were married, etc. I don't want to uproot my life for no commitment. I'm not willing to move there just to 'see how it works out'. I need more than that. I want to settle down and stay in one place for a long time. I want to get married and have a family very, very soon. I am willing to live with you if we were for certain on that path, but I'm not willing to do that if we aren't sure. I know you have a busy contract now and need to see it to the end. This is a good opportunity to make and save money for a move to CA. I am willing to wait if you give me a timeframe, like within a couple months.

 

 

But I'm not willing to wait more than that. If you can make a decision to do this, or if you are sure that you want to be together, then I would like you to do that. I am here, I am happy with the life I have made for myself. I don't want to move away for a boyfriend. I would be willing to move away for a husband. I want to have a child in the near future and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. I'm also not willing to sacrifice having a real commitment, more than just dating. I'm not willing to wait around for you to get here; if you say you want to do it, do it. I don't want to ever feel like I'm waiting for someone else. I know I could do it myself, and not wait for you. But it doesn't feel right, and I've spent a LOT of time thinking about it, talking about it, writing about it, etc. And I've come to a decision. If, at the end of this current contract you have not and are not making any moves... then I am not willing to wait for you anymore. It isn't fair to me, since it is not serving my goal. This is the hardest part for me to say, but I have to. I do love you but if you aren't willing to get out here and take action, I need to make myself available to someone else who is available, in my city, and who is as serious about settling down as I am. There are other opportunities here for me instead of waiting for you. And I'm not willing to wait indefinitely. I love you a lot, but it needs to be you and it needs to be soon. I'm scared that this may end me up alone. I'm scared this will push you away and you will give up and date someone closer to your age and in your city who doesn't want kids or marriage like I do. And as much as that scares me, I would be ok with it if that is what you choose. Because I know what I want and I'm not willing to compromise on it. I want to live in CA. If I came to LA I would want to get back to CA as fast as possible. I would be moving there as a means to an end, not because I really want to live in New Orleans. You are different in that way. You love CA and you talk about living here. I know you love it more than I love it there, so please get here. I hope you do, and very soon."

[NuevoYorko]

Wow.

 

You have been planning to move to LA for a long time; he visits you last week and tells you not to move there, and suddenly you have switched to:

 

But there is no way I'm willing to go there with the idea of "let's just see if we can be compatible in the same city". I'm just not willing to take that risk.

 

That's fine, but ... but ... but for dozens of pages, for months, you HAVE been willing to move down there. Now, "no way"?

 

Also, this jumped out at me, again:

 

I want to settle down, stay in one place for an extended period of time. I want to get married and have a child (or maybe two, if feasible), in the next couple of years.

 

You say this a lot. Well ... this man has said he is "open to the possibility of having children." He also said he wanted to be engaged for two years, even though currently you're choosing to talk yourself into the idea that he didn't mean that - which, by the way, is wrong. You need to listen to him and believe him. That's part of having a healthy relationship.

 

One thing I feel very strongly about for you: Clearly you are desperate to get married and have children. You really really need to be with a man who shares those goals . I mean, feels the SAME WAY about them as you do.

 

Have you ever stepped back and asked him exactly how he sees a happy future for HIMSELF, kept completely quiet about all your conditions and requirements, and listened? Unless he were to say "I want to be married with one or two kids within two years," you are really barking up the wrong tree.

 

From what you've shared, this man has no urgent desire to get married and have kids. If he's going to go along with things like that just because of all the pressure, it can't turn out well.

 

You have set up so many hurdles for this man to jump over in order to "earn" you: leave his family, his established work, move, get his own place, buy you a ring, get married and have one or two babies "very very soon." You are offering ... what? The privilege of being with you? I'm sure you're lovely, but why isn't the privilege of being with HIM enough for YOU? I'm sorry to be blunt, but this sounds princess-y.

 

In reality, you two are in the "getting to know you" stage. You've seen each other a handful of times over the course of a year. You've evidently taken getting to know each other off the table. I'm curious to see how he handles this.

[lana-banana]

Yowza, Venus. You've gone from "I would feel better about moving if we were engaged" to "I need you to move here and promise to marry me and within a few years have at least one child". You mentioned two kids. Venus, he isn't even sure that he can afford one! If that's not racheting up the pressure I don't know what is.

 

The worst part is that as you raise the stakes, he's bargained them down. You are now in the utterly unique situation wherein an engagement ring no longer has the significance or importance of, well, an engagement. He's indicated a ring would

just be a token to get you to live together, as introverted1 said, with a wedding to follow only after he's determined that you're compatible. Given how little time you guys have actually spent together I think that's smart. But it also has the unfortunate side effect of sucking all the romance and excitement from an actual engagement, because you won't start wedding planning or making real concrete steps towards a life together. What you'll effectively be getting is a promise ring on your left hand, and that...kind of stinks.

 

I don't know, Venus. I'm stumped. I see your perspective but I see his too. It makes me sad that you guys haven't yet found a way to work this out and instead are trying to force each other into your desired outcomes. I really don't know how to resolve it. But I'll tell you this right now: you are kidding yourself if you believe your anxiety will be alleviated once he moves or proposes. The "spinning" you do began long before this man entered your life and, unless you make serious steps to improve, will never end. You think you're spinning now? What happens when he proposes and you suddenly have an indefinite length of time to determine your compatibility before you can actually set a wedding date? It'll feel like every waking moment is a Broadway audition. I wouldn't wish that amount of pressure on anyone, especially not someone who is already so anxious. I just want the best for you, V, and it doesn't look like this is it.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I liked your post, and your comment about I can't walk away in the 11th hour is really resonating with me since I read it the other day. I realize I have a difficult time with commitment... the fact that this is long distance has added a dynamic that I haven't experienced before.

I like what you said about knowing it will be ok if it does or if it doesn't work out, no matter what I am responsible with my decisions and I can adapt and take care of my life and myself. This takes a lot of courage, as you've pointed out.

 

Venus I am so excited to hear you have reached a decision!!! And also happy some of what I posted last clicked for you.

 

You really are going to be just fine if you commit to your decisions. It may not have the obvious outcome but it will have the outcome that is intended for you and ultimately lead you down the correct path.

 

It sounds like you are listening to your gut and doing what feels right vs trying to appease everything that is circling around in your head.

 

Something was definitely stunting you and you may have finally figured out what it is. You don't want to move. And that is totally fine and understandable. It is not an easy decision to make and it took a LOT of deliberation to get to this point, 103 LS pages to be exact but it looks like you have reached the pinnacle of this journey.

 

Forget the babies for now, forget the marriage, the finances or the ring, now you are leading with the horse before the carriage. Realistically, you have decided that your happiness will be achieved if you:

 

a) get away from this long distance situation

b) have him come to you being fully aware that it could end in having to walk away

c) you don't want to be moving back and forth

d) you want to reach your goals

e) continue to enjoy the life you have built right where you are ideally with him in it

f) stick to your guns about not living with a man you are not solidly planning to marry or engaged to

 

Those are the right things to be focusing on at this stage of your conundrum.

 

It takes great courage to step up and decide what you did.

 

You owe it to yourself to be true to who you are, no one else. You call it pride or stubbornness, some of us would call it following your inner compass.

 

You will be fine in the long run because this is you acting for you.

 

 

The only thing I would recommend you don't do is tell him this:

 

It isn't fair to me, since it is not serving my goal

 

No man, or person, wants to hear that they are just a pawn in another's "self-serving goal" it's implied we all have them but if you pose it to him like that it might just be the nail in the coffin for him to say "ok I'm outta here"

 

I'd word it more in terms of not being fair to either of you, and not serving either one of your goals.

 

I really REALLY hope he's on board.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[No_Go]

I am here, I am happy with the life I have made for myself. I don't want to move away for a boyfriend. I would be willing to move away for a husband. I want to have a child in the near future and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. I'm also not willing to sacrifice having a real commitment, more than just dating. I'm not willing to wait around for you to get here; if you say you want to do it, do it. I don't want to ever feel like I'm waiting for someone else. I know I could do it myself, and not wait for you

 

Well the above statement will end the dilemma - he'd be out and gone before you finish it It is so intrusive, selfish, unaccepting of his needs and wants that I doubt any man that has balls will stay after a 'speech' of that sort.

 

Not even once you mention you want a life together, working together for your goals. You didn't offer him money, time, nothing when he suggested to move (and leave aging father, rebellious daughter and properties behind). How does it even compare to living your roomie and dining set?!

 

I hope it works out for you two, but unless the devil is in the detail and the writing does not reflect the real situation, I think this situation is burnt

[Sometymeswhy]

Bravo on your determination to live the life you want. Stick to your guns and if he is scared away he truly is not the one. Now that HE decided to move to California it is not unreasonable for you to hold him to it.

Perhaps he sensed you were dragging your feet a bit on the move by renewing your lease etc and he wants to see you happy. That's a good thing. Like most women you want marriage and children. Not unreasonable. Not princess-like in my view.

If he feels pressured or whatever time to say goodbye now before you get even more entangled and more years have dragged on.

The notion of gee you will scare him away seems to apply more to women. Society accepts when men lay down the law...taking this job in that city or whatever take it or leave it decision they make but when women are decisive they need to walk on eggshells to hold on to their man or risk being a princess. Wrong! Apologies for the feminist rant. Support his move however you can while maintaining your ground rules and resolve.

[sagamore]

Venus, what happened with his situation in LA to make him lose interest in you moving there? Your initial post seemed to imply that there was some family drama happening back home. I'm curious as to how he explained this sudden change when he was with you in CA.

[venusishername]

Venus I am so excited to hear you have reached a decision!!! And also happy some of what I posted last clicked for you.

 

You really are going to be just fine if you commit to your decisions. It may not have the obvious outcome but it will have the outcome that is intended for you and ultimately lead you down the correct path.

 

It sounds like you are listening to your gut and doing what feels right vs trying to appease everything that is circling around in your head.

 

Something was definitely stunting you and you may have finally figured out what it is. You don't want to move. And that is totally fine and understandable. It is not an easy decision to make and it took a LOT of deliberation to get to this point, 103 LS pages to be exact but it looks like you have reached the pinnacle of this journey.

 

Forget the babies for now, forget the marriage, the finances or the ring, now you are leading with the horse before the carriage. Realistically, you have decided that your happiness will be achieved if you:

 

a) get away from this long distance situation

b) have him come to you being fully aware that it could end in having to walk away

c) you don't want to be moving back and forth

d) you want to reach your goals

e) continue to enjoy the life you have built right where you are ideally with him in it

f) stick to your guns about not living with a man you are not solidly planning to marry or engaged to

 

Those are the right things to be focusing on at this stage of your conundrum.

 

It takes great courage to step up and decide what you did.

 

You owe it to yourself to be true to who you are, no one else. You call it pride or stubbornness, some of us would call it following your inner compass.

 

You will be fine in the long run because this is you acting for you.

 

 

The only thing I would recommend you don't do is tell him this:

 

No man, or person, wants to hear that they are just a pawn in another's "self-serving goal" it's implied we all have them but if you pose it to him like that it might just be the nail in the coffin for him to say "ok I'm outta here"

 

I'd word it more in terms of not being fair to either of you, and not serving either one of your goals.

 

I really REALLY hope he's on board.

 

THANK YOU. Yes, my gut feeling is telling me to stay put. Like I said, I'm willing to go, I was willing to go, I was serious about it, then I realized it just didn't feel right. I mean, that coincided with him telling me he'd like to come here first. I wouldn't say that he wasn't 'serving' my goals, I just mean to say that being long distance doesn't SUPPORT what I want and desire at this point, and it wouldn't be fair to me (or him for that matter) to have no definite and immediate plans to close the distance. It's simple, really.

I know that I need to listen to my heart and that's what I feel, I can't help it.

 

 

I am here, I am happy with the life I have made for myself. I don't want to move away for a boyfriend. I would be willing to move away for a husband. I want to have a child in the near future and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. I'm also not willing to sacrifice having a real commitment, more than just dating. I'm not willing to wait around for you to get here; if you say you want to do it, do it. I don't want to ever feel like I'm waiting for someone else. I know I could do it myself, and not wait for you

 

Well the above statement will end the dilemma - he'd be out and gone before you finish it It is so intrusive, selfish, unaccepting of his needs and wants that I doubt any man that has balls will stay after a 'speech' of that sort.

 

Not even once you mention you want a life together, working together for your goals. You didn't offer him money, time, nothing when he suggested to move (and leave aging father, rebellious daughter and properties behind). How does it even compare to living your roomie and dining set?!

 

I hope it works out for you two, but unless the devil is in the detail and the writing does not reflect the real situation, I think this situation is burnt

 

Well, No Go, I don't mean it in a selfish, "princess-y" demanding or cruel way. I can't help how I feel. Would YOU wait another year for a long distance boyfriend who has been talking about his desire and interest to move to CA since you met (a year ago)? Would YOU wait indefinitely if he said 'don't worry about coming here first, I will come to you'. I mean, I know how you feel; you would move there. I get it, and as you know I was going over all the details endlessly, it was keeping me up at night... thinking how I would live out there. I talked to recruiters in my field, I contacted Airbnb for a monthly rental, I applied for a couple jobs. I started looking (and just bought yesterday) a car that would move me across the country safely and with some of my belongings in tow. I'm just trying to say that if he is saying (and he just did) that he would like to come here and it wouldn't make sense for me to move out there first, just to come back soon after, and lose my place, job, etc... then I mean, that's great. If that is what he wants to do, I am willing to be here and support his decisions. What I'm trying to say is I don't want to wait for much longer. Some concrete action needs to take place. I was going to do it, now I feel it is his move since he has said he would do it.

 

 

As far as your comment about "asking him" to leave his family, etc... Dude. It goes both ways. In effect, you can just as easily say he would be "Asking me" to leave my job, family, friends, etc. Just the same. No one is ASKING anyone to give up or leave anything. There is no demanding going on here. I was ready to go there. He said he would like to come here. So my position is that is wonderful, please do, I am looking forward to it, I support your decision, you can stay with me if you need to for under a month until you get settled, etc.

I think the difference is, he actually wants to live in CA, and I only considered moving to LA to see if the relationship would progress living in the same city. Do you understand? I would be moving there just for him/our relationship. Not for me. If he moved here I think it would be much more for him, and me, and the relationship.

 

 

We are different, you and I in our opinions on this. I really can't help what I feel. If he hadn't said any of this, I'm not sure I'd be feeling the same right now.

 

 

All I am trying to say is (with no demands or bad intentions) is that I would LOVE if he would come here as quickly as possible, since that is what he said he wanted to do. Talk is talk, so if his actions aren't following his words in a REASONABLE amount of time from now; meaning like over the next 2-3 months, tops, then I need to walk away. I'm ok with that. I don't want to. It breaks my heart. But I'm willing to do it if nothing progresses. I get so discouraged that here we are a year later and the plans haven't materialized, and have changed for that matter.

 

 

I can't predict if this relationship is done or that the way I feel and what I say to him will end the relationship. I am working with what I know, and what I feel. I'm not trying to be a bitch or a princess or demand things from him or ask him to leave anything. We're not victims. We're in charge of our own decisions. And if I were to move there, that would be MY decision. If he wants to move here, that is HIS decision.

 

 

And his aging father and two kids DO compare to my aging parents, stable job, condo by the ocean and my furniture that I picked out carefully and bought with my savings and pieced together over time. It's the same. Both his priorities AND mine are similarly important to each of us. You can't compare the two, and I don't.

 

 

Bravo on your determination to live the life you want. Stick to your guns and if he is scared away he truly is not the one. Now that HE decided to move to California it is not unreasonable for you to hold him to it.

Perhaps he sensed you were dragging your feet a bit on the move by renewing your lease etc and he wants to see you happy. That's a good thing. Like most women you want marriage and children. Not unreasonable. Not princess-like in my view.

If he feels pressured or whatever time to say goodbye now before you get even more entangled and more years have dragged on.

The notion of gee you will scare him away seems to apply more to women. Society accepts when men lay down the law...taking this job in that city or whatever take it or leave it decision they make but when women are decisive they need to walk on eggshells to hold on to their man or risk being a princess. Wrong! Apologies for the feminist rant. Support his move however you can while maintaining your ground rules and resolve.

Thank you for understanding! I must know, what is "the notion of gee"?? I want to understand that sentence and it is obviously a typo. !!

Yes. I think it is not unreasonable for me to expect that he will follow through on his intentions. I told him very clearly that I was willing to move there but since he said he wanted to come here, that is why I stopped the planning. It's true.

Also, I think, for me, as a woman it has been MOST important in all of my long term relationships at a turning point like this that I stay firm to my resolve. I can't think of any relationship, long or short, that I've had, where I regret holding to my convictions and being strong and standing up for myself and what I want, and how I expect to be treated. I guess I'm a feminist too, because I totally agree with what you said.

 

 

Also, it's not as if I'm putting my foot down in a mean or bitchy way. I'm a tough cookie and "hard headed" as he has referred to me, but I'm a sweet woman deep down. I'm not trying to hurt him or control him. I just know what I want. And in my life, if a man can't step up to that I lose interest. I can't help it. Obviously I see how independent I am and clearly this is why I never got married before. I've had plenty of men in my life, that's for sure. I used to think if maybe I was just passive and acted like a ditzy woman I would have better luck with men. But I do respect my boyfriend and obviously he thinks I'm intelligent and have conviction so he knows what he's up against. Many men want a strong woman who knows what she wants. I wouldn't want to be with a man who was intimidated by that. And he doesn't seem to be at all. So I think he will rise to the occasion. I'm not being mean or selfish with him. I'm simply telling him what I want and that I support his decision to come here, that I appreciate his offers to help me and support me when he can, etc.

 

Venus, what happened with his situation in LA to make him lose interest in you moving there? Your initial post seemed to imply that there was some family drama happening back home. I'm curious as to how he explained this sudden change when he was with you in CA.

A few people have been asking about this and I sincerely don't believe it's anything negative that 'happened' in LA. I think it is a combination of multiple things over time:

1. Like Sometimeswhy said, I think he saw I was dragging my feet and he could see I was having hesitations and anxiety about moving there.

2. He has a large extended family in CA (about an hour or two from where I live), and they are wonderful and sweet and warm and also have welcomed me into their family upon first meeting.

3. CA is freaking beautiful, gorgeous, the landscape is stunning, it is progressive politically and culturally, etc. He loves it here.

4. He saw me cry once, when I was talking about how it will be so hard for me to leave my parents. He mentioned that it killed him to see me cry, and I think that may have had a big part in it.

5. He mentioned after the presidential election that he didn't want to be around any more close minded people in LA who voted for Trump. (those are his words, not mine, I am not coming down on people from LA or people who voted for Trump here). His own family over there voted that way and he was appalled and so affected by it... I think he felt that CA is such a progressive state (FAR ahead from the deep south), there is more opportunity here, better quality of living, more educated people in general, etc. I see what he means. I was having a really hard time imagining myself in LA... growing up in Southern CA... it is really quite a difference. And he sees CA as a "better" place to live.

6. It is not as if living in CA is a new and sudden idea. After we met he talked about job opportunities here and went to the union hall here. The idea of him being in CA did not come out of the blue.

7. He knows that I have expressed reservation to live with him in his house and also to leave my job, my condo and my family and friends if we didn't even know if we were ready to get married, etc. He knows I would need to feel more comfortable about that before I moved. I mean, he knows how I feel about living together before marriage, and he understands that I would want more of a commitment before moving across the country. He said he would tell his daughter the same thing.

8. I admitted to him my father did not support my moving there with no commitment. I know I'm a grown woman but almost all women, no matter what age, still look for their father's (or mother/brother/sister/grandparent/friends') approval and support in their decisions, provided they have a loving relationship.

 

For those reasons, I don't think there is anything negative or suspicious about these events. He is such a transparent and genuine person, I don't think it is anything that I need to be worried about. Honestly I think he saw how unsettled I was about moving there, and when I cried in front of him about the thought of leaving my parents... maybe on top of the other things it made him realize it would be in both of our best interests if he came here, at least initially.

 

Like I said before, if we were married then I would be more open to moving back to LA with him. But we're not. I don't feel it is in my best interest to move across the country and live in an Airbnb while all my stuff is in storage in CA and I'm paying rent on that... JUST to see if we are compatible. I'm sorry, call me selfish, call me stupid or stubborn, but it is how I feel. I don't feel a move like that is worth the risk FOR ME if I am only doing it to find out if we are compatible.

 

If I move there it would be all in. He is much more open to moving here, so by all means, I hope he does very soon.

I love this man and I think he's good for me. He truly loves me and he's my biggest fan. He lights up my life and he wants to make me happy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him, nothing he's doing wrong, etc.

The circumstances of the long distance have been stacked against us from day one.

Now it's time to make moves forward or end the relationship as soon as possible. I'm sorry to everyone here who can't understand that and thinks I'm being selfish and a princess. I've committed to this man from across the country for over a year. I was willing to move to be with him. I still would in the future. But he loves CA, I love CA, I want to stay, I want to come back here anyway, I think he is right... it would be in both of our best interests if he comes here. But- that is his decision. It's not something I'm asking or demanding he do. He was the one who said it. So, I am willing to be patient for a reasonable amount of time until he follows through with that.

Edited November 27, 2016 by venusishername