When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

*reads post, looks at liquor cabinet, sighs*

 

No, the recently was during the relationship, and lately too.

He said he was open to it with the right person, and time would tell.

Either way, “the right person” was interjected at times (during the relationship) with me, yes.

 

Okay. So to me, if he was saying he was "open to it with the right person" at the one-plus-year mark, that should have been a sign that he was still waaaaay far away from being ready to marry you, or anyone. You should have interpreted that to mean he is not yet on the same page with me after more than a year and that is not compatible with what I'm looking for. Either we get on the same page or I walk.

 

He talked about “if we were married”. He would say things like “I can see doing those things with you”. Seriously, I think I must be stupid, dense, or am getting in my way here because I guess I’m not seeing it. Can you tell me what it SHOULD sound like?

 

Once a guy decides he's going to marry you, if turns into when. It's no longer about "I can see doing X with you" but "we'll do X". He demonstrates to everyone that he intends to put a ring on it. He might even tell you directly "I am going to marry you."

 

Above all, he starts living his life with consideration of the role you will play in it. That is a big thing that never happened in your case. Up to the very end you commented on how he lived like a bachelor and enjoyed it. A man who is serious about marrying you will do important but unsexy things like combine your insurance policies and phone plans, block off a few hours to go house hunting, and ask what time of year you want to have your honeymoon.

 

Are you telling me that instead it should have looked like, “I want to settle down and get married and have my own family in the very near future”. Is that what is supposed to sound like? Is that the ONLY thing I should accept from here on out? No wishy washiness… is that right?

 

If you are absolutely adamant that that is what you want---and it sounds like you are---then the answer is yes.

 

I don’t want to be married right now, (I mean, yes, I would like to have been married when I was 25 to my last long term boyfriend), but seriously Lana, I wasn’t expecting marriage, kids, the whole shebang, especially being long distance, in under 2 years.

 

Venus, what are you how is this are you what I can't even send help graugh arf blorp

 

Lana, sometimes lately I’ve started to think that my desire to be married and start my own family in the very near future is a goal that maybe I should reconsider., I’m so fragile and hurt right now.. I can’t help but think that. What if I NEVER meet anyone who wants the same things, am compatible with, etc. etc. Maybe I’m expecting too much too soon? Maybe I f’ed up a great thing between us because I wasn’t willing to wait. Maybe I’ll never get what I want, if only I had stuck it out a little longer, I could have potentially had that with him.

 

Sorry, I needed a few minutes to un-break myself. This paragraph is terrible and comes from a place of deep insecurity. Are you just going to disregard the page after page (after page after page) where you clearly articulated all your uncertainties about him? Are you seriously suggesting that maybe you should have stuck it out in an ultimately unsatisfying relationship because marriage and babies are more important? That's crazy talk. It wasn't just the distance; you two weren't compatible in key ways and you know it.

 

But I just can’t believe that he’s fine with losing me. He told me that in person, the other day. That he doesn’t want to lose me. I just can’t believe that he was insincere and didn’t want something real and serious. I mean, I met his family. He told me even his ex wife never was around his extended family like I have been. He asked to meet my extended family. Of course he wanted to see me more than just now and again. I don’t see it as bluntly as you put it. Do you sincerely believe that he was just satisfied with having a long distance, noncommittal, sometimes relationship? I have had doubts about that myself, as you have reminded me. But I know for certain that he has truly loved me and didn’t view me or treat me as just a casual, sometimes thing. It WAS more than that!

 

This only confirms that your ego is indeed playing a huge role here. No one is saying you guys were just FWBs, as it's obvious he loved you very much. But he was absolutely satisfied with a long-distance sometimes relationship. You even suspected as much at one point. At the end of the day, yes, he was fine with losing you. He preferred to lose you than lose his lifestyle.

 

Let me repeat: he preferred to lose you than lose his lifestyle. If you can't accept this you will be unable to move on in reality.

[introverted1]

seriously Lana, I wasn’t expecting marriage, kids, the whole shebang, especially being long distance, in under 2 years.

 

What you were expecting was actually very close to this.

 

November 25:

 

I want to get married and have a child (or maybe two, if feasible), in the next couple of years.

 

The only way for this to happen would be for you to be married and pregnant in the next year...

[NuevoYorko]

 

Yes, Venus, you were wrong about this. He did not say "I want to marry once I meet the right person"; he said if he met the right person then he might be open to it. There's a huge difference. He didn't share your goal of getting married at all. It was, at best, a possibility.

 

Definitely "if," "might," and "maybe" do not in any universe equate to "I need to be married and have baby within ONE YEAR (or very, very, very soon, however you say it).

 

Because you are asking this question again, Venus, it seems that you still don't get this. A guy who MIGHT get married under some circumstances is exactly the same, where your goals are concerned, as a guy who says he's never getting married.

 

You are NOT flexible, so you MUST date ONLY men who actively have a hardcore GOAL of being married and having a baby immediately.

 

 

 

You may struggle with your self-esteem, but as sagamore and idoltree pointed out, you have a real ego about your appearance, desirability, and sexual prowess, which makes it harder for you to accept rejection. Rejection is tough for everybody, but you seem unable to swallow that there are men out there who CAN meet you, interact with you and even sleep with you, and not stay interested.

I have noticed the same thing.

 

Venus, when asked what you were bringing to your recent relationship, you said you were bringing your "beauty." I thought that was odd, at your age.

 

The first guy in this thread, who clearly had very minimal interest in you from the start - you repeatedly said "he may not be able to hold my interest." But ... he wasn't interested! What a waste of time.

 

I'm not pointing this out to put you down. As lana said, everybody gets rejected, kept around just because they were so willing and eager, pumped and dumped, etc. It sucks but it happens, even to the hot.

 

I think your ego is fragile and you have inappropriate attachment to your perception of your looks and desirability, and an intense need to constantly have that validated. Somehow it's keeping you stuck in a place you need to get out of. If you're beautiful, great; you'll have an easy time getting first dates and sex. It's not a very strong tool to count on when looking for a lifetime partner - or BEING a lifetime partner.

 

Mainly, your need to be perceived as gorgeous and sexually irresistible totally gets in the way of you being able to see when a guy isn't that into you and you need to cut it off and move on. Conversely, if he feeds your hunger to be told you're beautiful and madly desirable, it seems likely that you'd stick with the most unsuitable man possible.

[venusishername]

*reads post, looks at liquor cabinet, sighs*

Okay. So to me, if he was saying he was "open to it with the right person" at the one-plus-year mark, that should have been a sign that he was still waaaaay far away from being ready to marry you, or anyone. You should have interpreted that to mean he is not yet on the same page with me after more than a year and that is not compatible with what I'm looking for. Either we get on the same page or I walk.

Well, that’s what I just did. I walked because after one year he wasn’t close to being on the same page as me and that’s not good enough. Thanks for the pep talk. You make me more secure in my decision by explaining things so well. And trust me, Lana, I’d love to be having a drink with you right now *sigh*. Wouldn’t it be something if we actually could do that someday.

Once a guy decides he's going to marry you, if turns into when. It's no longer about "I can see doing X with you" but "we'll do X". He demonstrates to everyone that he intends to put a ring on it. He might even tell you directly "I am going to marry you."

Above all, he starts living his life with consideration of the role you will play in it. That is a big thing that never happened in your case. Up to the very end you commented on how he lived like a bachelor and enjoyed it. A man who is serious about marrying you will do important but unsexy things like combine your insurance policies and phone plans, block off a few hours to go house hunting, and ask what time of year you want to have your honeymoon. .

Makes sense. And that’s happened to me in my last relationship. We shared phone plan, Costco card, bought a car together, etc. The fact that the distance was so great really did hinder anything like that from happening even if it was going to. How can you combine phone plans and insurance and go over numbers like you always talked about, since we lived like two islands, separate and apart? There were so many things in the way of us getting closer, like that. He didn’t recognize me at first when I drove up the other day, with my new car and new haircut. Those little things… mean so much, they really do.

When I talked about him living the bachelor lifestyle… I mean, he would say things like how he got tired of going out with his single friends and would rather be at home, coming home to me and hated having to go out all the time to distract himself or fill the time…. But his lifestyle was… that of a single man who liked to entertain and host guests, keep his own schedule, work late, etc. I mean, I think if I were there and living with him or whatever, if we had a normal relationship it MAY have changed those habits and lifestyle. I’ll never know if closing the distance would have changed that. I think it could have happened with him, what you said about living his life with consideration of the role I’ll play in it. I think what did it in for me is this family trip he just made, with absolutely zero time carved out alone with me, or no effort to alter or modify his plans to fit my schedule. I realized this trip wasn’t about me. He just wanted to take a trip to California, and happen to see me because I lived there.

Sorry, I needed a few minutes to un-break myself. This paragraph is terrible and comes from a place of deep insecurity. Are you just going to disregard the page after page (after page after page) where you clearly articulated all your uncertainties about him? Are you seriously suggesting that maybe you should have stuck it out in an ultimately unsatisfying relationship because marriage and babies are more important? That's crazy talk. It wasn't just the distance; you two weren't compatible in key ways and you know it.

I know. I’m feeling very down and insecure. Well, I’m about to turn 33. So even if I met someone new tomorrow and fell in love… I would have to date them for a year in order to determine compatibility and even then no guarantee of marriage, etc. So what I mean is, time has passed. So my “timeframe” isn’t looking too promising right now. I may have to give up the desire to be married and have children before I’m 35. It’s looking that way now. I take responsibility for the years I spent with wrong guys. I take responsibility for participating in a LDR for over a year. What I’m saying is- my timeframe isn’t looking very realistic anymore. So I should probably reevaluate that, or give up on a “timeframe”.

And I agree with you, we were not compatible in key ways. I know.

This only confirms that your ego is indeed playing a huge role here. No one is saying you guys were just FWBs, as it's obvious he loved you very much. But he was absolutely satisfied with a long-distance sometimes relationship. You even suspected as much at one point. At the end of the day, yes, he was fine with losing you. He preferred to lose you than lose his lifestyle.

Let me repeat: he preferred to lose you than lose his lifestyle. If you can't accept this you will be unable to move on in reality.

This is hard to understand, and hard to accept. But I understand and respect his decision.

I’ll say it again, being so far apart, just added to the difference in lifestyle.. if we had lived in the same city neither one of us would be in a position where we would have to choose losing a lifestyle, I think.

[venusishername]

What you were expecting was actually very close to this.

 

November 25:

 

 

 

The only way for this to happen would be for you to be married and pregnant in the next year...

 

Right. And I realize today, that is not going to happen. I feel like giving up.

Edited December 29, 2016 by venusishername

[Weezy1973]

Venus - this is but a moment in time. You are feeling down because you just broke up with someone you love. Before making any major life decisions about marriage and babies, take some time...AND DON'T DATE RIGHT AWAY!!!

 

sorry for yelling...

 

I would indeed forget a timeline. Remember that quality long term relationships are all about compatibility so your goal should be to find someone that you're compatible with, regardless of the amount of time it takes. Freeze your eggs if you're sure you want biological kids and you're getting worried.

 

Also, I think therapy might be in order if you're not already in therapy. I'm not a therapist, but I suspect you are one of the women, quite common on LoveShack actually, that has high self-esteem, but low self-worth. The telltale sign is when a woman thinks her looks and sexual abilities are important when it comes to relationships.

 

It's very interesting as well to see the things you ignore in this thread; often that speaks volumes.

[Redhead14]

I know. I’m feeling very down and insecure. Well, I’m about to turn 33. So even if I met someone new tomorrow and fell in love… I would have to date them for a year in order to determine compatibility and even then no guarantee of marriage, etc. So what I mean is, time has passed. So my “timeframe” isn’t looking too promising right now. I may have to give up the desire to be married and have children before I’m 35. It’s looking that way now. I take responsibility for the years I spent with wrong guys. I take responsibility for participating in a LDR for over a year. What I’m saying is- my timeframe isn’t looking very realistic anymore. So I should probably reevaluate that, or give up on a “timeframe”.

 

It's one thing to have goals for yourself, it's another not to be able to adjust according to where you are at a given time in your life. The fact is that you are still a young, vibrant woman who has a lot to offer.

 

Stop listening to the ticking of and watching the biological clock. IMO, you have been too focused on that clock and trying to force things to happen "on time" and really missing out on what's tangible and realistic.

 

Frankly, I have often wondered, because of all the "mind work" you've done in this thread, that when you were actually with or even just talking to him, that you were really focused. I mean, even when you were spending time with him, etc. that you weren't really in the moment and focused. With all this stuff going on in your head constantly, it had to be a distraction. You often came back here to report on things you two had talked about and had more questions than answers and had asked questions you didn't really get an answer to. Like you were in your own head when you could/should have been more focused on what was happening. And, there were a few times when you got answers but couldn't see that they were "answers".

 

All I'm trying to say is just breathe, enjoy and live your life for a little while now. Clear your head. Forget about the clock. When you do date again, just be in the moment. Let things happen as they will. You are a secure, independent, self-sufficient woman. That is the holy grail of goals for a woman! Enjoy that.

[NuevoYorko]

OK - I hope I'm not going overboard into dangerous territory, but I feel that there's an elephant in the room (in this thread, actually) and that's your ex. Not NOLA guy, but your last long term relationship.

 

Here is something you said about that man earlier in this thread:

 

I've been hanging on to 'what it looked like with my ex' and every man must rise to that standard of how he courted me and what he did and said between the time we met and the time we became a couple.

 

It sounds like you hold him up as an ideal of sorts. Yet, he stalked you and messed up your life significantly for years, didn't he?

 

Did he sweep you off your feet in a way that you found irresistible? That is a hallmark move of narcissists. I'm not saying that anybody in your life story is or was a narcissist, but I'm wondering if you are still holding on to a yearning for something that is very bad for you.

 

Sorry for bringing this up if it is completely out of bounds. I do have an impression that you are still reacting to aspects of that relationship; also that there is some pretty strong unfinished business where father figures are concerned.

[imaginarium]

OK - I hope I'm not going overboard into dangerous territory, but I feel that there's an elephant in the room (in this thread, actually) and that's your ex. Not NOLA guy, but your last long term relationship.

 

Here is something you said about that man earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

It sounds like you hold him up as an ideal of sorts. Yet, he stalked you and messed up your life significantly for years, didn't he?

 

Did he sweep you off your feet in a way that you found irresistible? That is a hallmark move of narcissists. I'm not saying that anybody in your life story is or was a narcissist, but I'm wondering if you are still holding on to a yearning for something that is very bad for you.

 

Sorry for bringing this up if it is completely out of bounds. I do have an impression that you are still reacting to aspects of that relationship; also that there is some pretty strong unfinished business where father figures are concerned.

 

 

Yep, that. You often talk about this ex, that you clearly shared an intense relationship with on many levels. If you aren't over that, if you can't stop comparing things in your current relationships to it or worrying that you'll repeat the past, you won't be able to get the new relationships off the ground.

 

The right partner should inspire enough trust to make your old relationships and issues not run front and center. If you keep finding yourself in that mire (as you OFTEN did with NOLA guy), then either you don't have the right partner or you aren't secure enough in your role in the outcome of the relationship for it to work. The right relationship will make you enjoy your present and look forward to the future. They don't leave a whole lot of emotional space for "my ex and what happened to me when I was with him" unless those things were truly psychologically damaging, and not just the learning curve of being in the wrong relationship at that time of your life.

[clia]

But I just can’t believe that he’s fine with losing me. He told me that in person, the other day. That he doesn’t want to lose me. I just can’t believe that he was insincere and didn’t want something real and serious. I mean, I met his family. He told me even his ex wife never was around his extended family like I have been. He asked to meet my extended family. Of course he wanted to see me more than just now and again. I don’t see it as bluntly as you put it. Do you sincerely believe that he was just satisfied with having a long distance, noncommittal, sometimes relationship? I have had doubts about that myself, as you have reminded me. But I know for certain that he has truly loved me and didn’t view me or treat me as just a casual, sometimes thing. It WAS more than that!

 

Conversely, you are also fine with losing him.

 

I think he loves you very much, but not enough to drop his life and move to CA. I think you feel the exact same way about him -- you love him very much, but not enough to drop your life and move to NOLA. It's a stalemate and it's time for both of you to move on. When it's the right relationship, it is not this difficult. I do think he was probably fine with continuing in long distance mode for much longer than you are because he wasn't as worried about marriage and babies.

[clia]

Right. And I realize today, that is not going to happen. I feel like giving up.

 

Please don't give up. You are only 33. You still have lots of time to find the right guy, get married, and have a child.

[introverted1]

Right. And I realize today, that is not going to happen. I feel like giving up.

 

Venus, I didn't post that to encourage to give up. I posted it to highlight how you shift the narrative continuously! You say something, get called out on it, then defend, retract, and deny. There are a few reasons why you've managed to generate 118 pages of thread to cover two years of dating, and that's just one of them.

 

Your timeline is working against you. It is putting you in the position of forcing relationships to be what they are not and, particularly since you are so skilled at projecting your desires onto the men you meet, this is an insidious time waster that further erodes your confidence.

 

That doesn't mean you should date unsuitable men! Within the first handful of dates you should be able to ascertain whether a man has the same goals you do (marriage + baby); by 3 months you should be able to tell whether he is a guy you could imagine going the distance with. This does NOT mean you'd be engaged in 3 months-- only that, at your age, you should be able to determine long-range potential by then. And cut loose the guys who can't deliver, no matter how great the sex is. (Great sex in an LDR is pretty much a given, imo, but that's another topic.)

 

I'd also encourage you to focus less on the physical attributes you bring to a relationship and more on inner beauty, as corny as that may sound. People don't marry because the other person is hot or great in bed -- at least one of those will fade with time, and possibly both.

 

You talked about seeing a therapist at one point. Are you still doing so, V? What does s/he have to say about this situation? What is his/her recommendation for your path forward?

[Jejangles]

Agreed with others, you need to set aside a timeline and focus on what is working and not working for you in relationships. And also focus on YOU - you cannot always view yourself as reflected through others, you need to know who you are at a deep level before you can connect with someone else.

 

I am a few years older than you and have been single most of my life. This time last year, I had been on a few dates with a guy who was fading away and felt like giving up on dating. Two weeks later I matched with a guy on Tinder who was not my usual type. To be honest I nearly didn't go on a second date with him because he wasn't who I had pictured, but then he just kept saying things that connected me to him on a deep level and everything he said really resonated with my values. A year later, we are moving in together soon and talking kids within the next couple of years and I could not be happier. I look back and can't believe how much time I wasted on the wrong guys, because when my right guy showed up and I actually looked into he is on a deeper level, it felt so easily perfect.

 

All this to say, you have plenty of time and you need to work on yourself so that when the right guy shows up and possibly doesn't look like what you pictured, you can clearly see him. If your experience is anything like mine, you won't have to be so anxious or have doubts when you meet him. It will just feel right.

[venusishername]

I would indeed forget a timeline. Remember that quality long term relationships are all about compatibility so your goal should be to find someone that you're compatible with, regardless of the amount of time it takes. Freeze your eggs if you're sure you want biological kids and you're getting worried.

Ok. I think this is a good idea. I mean, I’m not going to forget about my long term goals and not going to pursue casual relationships, cheap sex, long distance relationships, incompatible long term partners, etc. BUT, I think it is a good idea to “give up” on the idea of marriage and a family anytime soon anymore. For many reasons, that did not happen for me when I wanted it to. I take responsibility for my part in that as well. With my current situation, I mean, I don’t think the “timeline” was totally unreasonable…. In my defense… after a year no progression, just talk… I still feel that was fair and in my best interest to end it. Sometimes I doubt myself and think I was too impatient and I put too much pressure on… but then I realize I gave it sufficient time, under the circumstances. I sure hope so. I’m second guessing myself at times.

Also, I think therapy might be in order if you're not already in therapy. I'm not a therapist, but I suspect you are one of the women, quite common on LoveShack actually, that has high self-esteem, but low self-worth. The telltale sign is when a woman thinks her looks and sexual abilities are important when it comes to relationships.

I have been in therapy, in the past, over the past several years. It’s been sporadic in the past year. I just requested an appointment this morning and I will be in next week. I wanted to comment on this, didn’t mean to ignore it. When was talking about “beauty” as far as what I contributed to the relationship… I don’t truly feel my beauty is important in a relationship. He told me often that I was beautiful, that’s why I put it in that context. I really don’t think my beauty is important in a relationship. It’s just something that he liked about me.

OK - I hope I'm not going overboard into dangerous territory, but I feel that there's an elephant in the room (in this thread, actually) and that's your ex. Not NOLA guy, but your last long term relationship.

It sounds like you hold him up as an ideal of sorts. Yet, he stalked you and messed up your life significantly for years, didn't he?

Did he sweep you off your feet in a way that you found irresistible? That is a hallmark move of narcissists. I'm not saying that anybody in your life story is or was a narcissist, but I'm wondering if you are still holding on to a yearning for something that is very bad for you.

Sorry for bringing this up if it is completely out of bounds. I do have an impression that you are still reacting to aspects of that relationship; also that there is some pretty strong unfinished business where father figures are concerned.

I’m glad you brought him up. I think I USED to feel that way about him, when I was first embarking on this new relationship. Over time, I felt that way less and less. I don’t still feel that way.

Yes, he was a narcissist, yes, he stalked and harassed me and was emotionally abusive and manipulative and seriously f’ed me up for years, I think. It was very traumatic. You may be totally right about your last sentence.

Therapy…… hasn’t totally fixed that. She started working with me when I was going through the trauma with my ex. So that helped tremendously. I have seen her once or twice since this last NOLA relationship.

I think he loves you very much, but not enough to drop his life and move to CA. I think you feel the exact same way about him -- you love him very much, but not enough to drop your life and move to NOLA. It's a stalemate and it's time for both of you to move on. When it's the right relationship, it is not this difficult. I do think he was probably fine with continuing in long distance mode for much longer than you are because he wasn't as worried about marriage and babies.

I understand and agree with you. That’s what a friend of mine said. I can accept that, I really can. It’s very sad, but understandable.

Venus, I didn't post that to encourage to give up. I posted it to highlight how you shift the narrative continuously! You say something, get called out on it, then defend, retract, and deny. There are a few reasons why you've managed to generate 118 pages of thread to cover two years of dating, and that's just one of them.Your timeline is working against you. It is putting you in the position of forcing relationships to be what they are not and, particularly since you are so skilled at projecting your desires onto the men you meet, this is an insidious time waster that further erodes your confidence.

I didn’t say I wanted to give up in response to what you wrote. I just feel sometimes that I should let go of my expectations, maybe then I wouldn’t be so disappointed. Obviously, it is very far stretch at this point for me to get married and pregnant in one year, now that I just broke up my opportunity for that to ever happen with the guy I’ve been with for over a year. If I hadn’t wanted to progress the relationship, and would have been satisfied with the way things were…. Maybe then I’d still have a chance to eventually have what I want, with him, and soon. I know that’s probably not the case, but I can’t help but think about that.

Here’s where I’m sticking right now.

Lana was saying that he didn’t want marriage, or anytime soon, was maybe open to the possibility, etc. But so then why did he talk about it so much? Why bother??!

[introverted1]

Lana was saying that he didn’t want marriage, or anytime soon, was maybe open to the possibility, etc. But so then why did he talk about it so much? Why bother??!

 

Eh, who knows exactly? People put different emphases on words -- what you say literally someone else may say in a more figurative way. Maybe he enjoyed dreaming a bit.

 

I'm open to...

Maybe...

If I meet the right person...

Sometime in the future...

Possibly someday...

 

^^ Those are all hedges. Maybe with enough time, they would have become firm yeses. But I hope you can see that they are not the same as:

 

This is what I want...

My plan is...

I'm looking for...

 

NOLA guy's language was not the language of No but it also wasn't the language of Yes. And while I don't think he was out to deliberately deceive you, I am sure that his references to marriages generated a positive response in you which he no doubt enjoyed.

[Imajerk17]

Well, as I said in an earlier post, post-breakup spinning is completely normal. And so are your feelings of sadness. But at 33 you are too young to give up.

 

BUT, looking back at this whole thread, and your others, there is one overarching theme. It is the reason you are struggling in your dating life: You haven't taken responsibility for your expectations, decisions, and actions. It's the one thing that is clear on most every page of this thread, and it shows up in several ways.

 

1. You are able to attract many men. So it stands to reason that many of the men you have attracted would have been good decent guys for you. You've gone, however, for the type of men who are NOT likely to be good marriage material--e.g., the Alpha Bad Boys, your stalker ex. And you likely turned down men who were/could have been devoted to you but in your opinion were "boring". YOU likely were the one who was pushing all the good men away. But the (false) narrative you kept telling us (and likely yourself) during your courtship with NOLA Guy was that all the other men in your past haven't stepped up, portraying yourself as some sort of victim.

 

2. You kept spinning w NOLA Guy on whether he'd give you marriage and children. But you would not see (even though it was obvious to everyone else here) that if you and he were going to live in the same place, you would have to be the one to move, as he already has children near NOLA. That was an unrealistic expectation on your part. Many many women follow their man to the ends of the earth, venus. That you weren't willing to do that means that you weren't the woman for him, and it would not have been right for him to marry you. His doubts about YOU were justified too.

 

3. What lana-banana said about only seeing what you want to see. Instead of communicating with NOLA Guy you carried on this relationship in your head. If your communication w NOLA were halfway decent you would have had much more clarity 6 months ago. You'd be saving for a move to NOLA (a move w a definitive date), or you would have already been in NOLA, or you would have realized that you weren't right for each other.

 

4. The times you contradict yourself on here. You don't owe US the truth but that you can say A and then something that contradicts A means that you are lying to yourself.

 

Anyway, some more things to think about. I do think that your resolution for 2017 has to be to be taking responsibility for your expectations, decisions, and actions, going forward.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Imajerk17

[venusishername]

Eh, who knows exactly? People put different emphases on words -- what you say literally someone else may say in a more figurative way. Maybe he enjoyed dreaming a bit.

I'm open to...

Maybe...

If I meet the right person...

Sometime in the future...

Possibly someday...

^^ Those are all hedges. Maybe with enough time, they would have become firm yeses. But I hope you can see that they are not the same as:

This is what I want...

My plan is...

I'm looking for...

NOLA guy's language was not the language of No but it also wasn't the language of Yes. And while I don't think he was out to deliberately deceive you, I am sure that his references to marriages generated a positive response in you which he no doubt enjoyed.

I see. And I do see the difference. I agree, he wasn’t sure, it wasn’t clear enough. Not anything like me. I think on a subconscious level, that’s why I think I vacillated so much and ultimately decided not to move there. It was too up in the air. On that note….

You kept spinning w NOLA Guy on whether he'd give you marriage and children. But you would not see (even though it was obvious to everyone else here) that if you and he were going to live in the same place, you would have to be the one to move, as he already has children near NOLA. That was an unrealistic expectation on your part. Many many women follow their man to the ends of the earth, venus. That you weren't willing to do that means that you weren't the woman for him, and it would not have been right for him to marry you. His doubts about YOU were justified too.

I don’t agree with this. Although you give me a lot of cause to second guess myself. Other posters have said similar. However, He was so iffy about the future, (see my response above), I felt it would be a FAR greater risk for me to move there, than for him to move here. He has far less expectations. He wasn’t clear like I was. It was “we shall see” “maybe” “if”- all the “hedges” like Introverted said.

And another thing, I’ve DONE this before. I crossed the ocean and lived on a frigging sailboat and took showers in a beach campground and ate beans out of a can because I was so broke.. all because I followed my man to the ends of the earth. I vowed that if I ever did that again I would need a ring on it, or at least feel very confident that would happen. It is very obvious that he (my current) was not promising that. He talked a lot but I couldn’t bring myself to repeat what I did before… for a boyfriend. To live like a roommate, not as a wife, or fiancee. That just wasn’t sounding like a wise decision to me. Especially since I have done this before and it really blew up in my face. It sucked. I need more than an offer to share his bed to leave CA again.

I asked him recently, what did he think when I decided to renew my lease. He said, “I thought we agreed together that I wanted to come to CA anyway. If you came here, why would you give up so much if we wanted to move back to CA anyway? I thought we agreed it would be in our best interest if I moved to CA.”

I also asked him about the kids (many times), like I understand why he wouldn’t be so quick to move, or he didn’t want to. I’m referring to your statement: “But you would not see (even though it was obvious to everyone else here) that if you and he were going to live in the same place, you would have to be the one to move, as he already has children near NOLA. That was an unrealistic expectation on your part.”

He said, and I quote, “they’re old enough, they’re doing their own thing anyway. They have their own lives.” SO, some people here have berated me for being so selfish to ask him to move away from his children. I NEVER DID THAT! I totally understand if that would prevent him and of course I would be empathetic towards that. But he TOLD me (and I am listening to his words here) what he said above. He has never once said anything like “I really don’t want to leave my kids.” He has seemed perfectly fine with moving here and not bringing his kids along or leaving them behind.

You are able to attract many men. So it stands to reason that many of the men you have attracted would have been good decent guys for you. You've gone, however, for the type of men who are NOT likely to be good marriage material--e.g., the Alpha Bad Boys, your stalker ex. And you likely turned down men who were/could have been devoted to you but in your opinion were "boring". YOU likely were the one who was pushing all the good men away. But the (false) narrative you kept telling us (and likely yourself) during your courtship with NOLA Guy was that all the other men in your past haven't stepped up, portraying yourself as some sort of victim.

Yes, I attract many men. I have had many options. You are right, in the past, I have not gone for the husband material, and find myself in long term relationships with the bad boys. Not this last one, he’s not a bad boy. I have had many doubts as to whether he is good marriage material, although he is a good man. Yes, I have pushed many good men away. I’ve known that. I won’t do it again. Right now a “boring” (I say that not to mean “boring”, but “STABLE AND SECURE” sounds real appealing. Give me some of that.

Can you clarify what you mean to say by the “Stepping up” comment? How have I created a false narrative during my courtship with NOLA guy that all other men in my past haven’t “stepped up”? Can you explain?

What lana-banana said about only seeing what you want to see. Instead of communicating with NOLA Guy you carried on this relationship in your head. If your communication w NOLA were halfway decent you would have had much more clarity 6 months ago. You'd be saving for a move to NOLA (a move w a definitive date), or you would have already been in NOLA, or you would have realized that you weren't right for each other.

I was intending to move to NOLA. I truly was going through the motions to achieve that. Then I realized I couldn’t, then he said to just stay put, he would come here, etc. How is that only seeing what I wanted to see?

I get it as far as what Lana was talking about as far as his goals/intentions/timeline (specifically the 2 year engagement comment) and not choosing to listen to him and creating my own reality based on my own projections. But I think that the move situation, where HE DECIDED it would be best that I stay here and he would come, later… how is that not seeing things on my part?

I have a confession. Several actually and I know I’m going to get hell for this. He and I have still been communicating (not like before but we do chat since our visit). We still have feelings for each other. Although we are trying to move on, this was not what either one of us wanted.

I was approached the other night (again) and a guy asked me out. Not sure if it’s the holiday season or what but it seems to be happening a lot this month. I said I would like to go, and to give me a call when he was available and we’d figure something out. He texted the next day and in the future, maybe after the new year, we can arrange to have that date sometime. Maybe once the dust has settled.

NOLA (I hate to refer to him as that, anything other than his name)...seems like he’s trying to accept this and move on. As I should too, but it is hard because I am second guessing myself. Now creeping doubts about my own decisions, not to move there. He has said things referencing me dating other people, I think he knows it’s best to be open to dating others, unless we live in the same city. And he has continued to talk about still moving to CA.

[Mkn1010]

Question: have you ever been single for a year? Like at least 12 months in your life?

 

 

It appears as though this goal (marriage + kids) has kept you on a mission, a mission that has denied you important time for self-reflection. Don't get me wrong, as a 30 year old single female myself, I know how anxiety inducing it is to age against this ticking biological clock and society's perceptions of what you 'should' be doing at your age. But I get the strong sense that you're currently mourning what you perceive as a lost opportunity to achieve these things as opposed to the loss of HIM. That's very odd.

 

 

Since the break up, your posts centre around how you are losing hope of your chance to achieve marriage and kids and asking the board if it's time to give up that dream. However, I see nothing about how much you miss him or are having doubts about your decision because of his personality/what he otherwise brought to your life etc etc.

 

 

What would those goals mean to you if achieved with the wrong person?

 

 

I also note the mention of previous guys that you found boring or whatever and chose not to continue dating. Well, sometimes the boring ('safe' type) that may not instill huge feelings of lust/chemistry in us, are actually who we need! Going for the token bad boys with whom you feel a connection is based on low self-worth, in my opinion. This is supported by the stuff in this thread about your ego/need to be validated by men and your disbelief that someone can stand losing you etc (as others have mentioned). And that was another thing you seemingly couldn't get your head around, not how you were going to move forward with the gap HE has now left post break up. But perhaps you guys didn't really spend all that much time together being LD and hence your ideals were keeping you in this type of dynamic under the perception that you were closer to your 'goals' (when in fact you were wasting time).

 

 

I think time alone to re-prioritise is a good option!

[Mkn1010]

I also want to add that you sound a lot like how I used to be... my ex worshipped the ground I walked on and told me how perfect I was constantly, which lead to this false sense of entitlement in terms of getting what I want in life and for all men to court me in a similar devoted way.

 

 

I then spent two years alone to COME BACK DOWN TO PLANET EARTH!! The fact is, my ex was a manipulative sociopath and any man who did similar things should be avoided. And MANY MANY people don't get the dream of marriage and kids. I'm not saying drop this goal, I'm saying make sure your life is one that you love and are happy with despite not having these things, just in case you are one of the 'unlucky ones' so that you can lead an enriched life nonetheless! Otherwise, don't be surprised if no one wants to marry you, particularly if they are feeling like just any ol' sperm donor!!

Edited December 30, 2016 by Mkn1010

[NuevoYorko]

In my defense… after a year no progression, just talk… I still feel that was fair and in my best interest to end it. Sometimes I doubt myself and think I was too impatient and I put too much pressure on… but then I realize I gave it sufficient time, under the circumstances. I sure hope so. I’m second guessing myself at times.

 

OK ...

 

First of all, stop doubting and second guessing yourself. You did the right thing to break up. Even though I gather from what you recently posted that maybe you're not as broken up as we might think you are.

 

I'm going to have to call you out, again, though on the constant passive, victim role that you love. You wonder and fret repeatedly over whether it was all "just talk" from him.

 

Look at this advice given to you BEFORE HIS FIRST VISIT. You "liked" it. Bolding is mine:

 

 

I'd say that you're both really into one another, things seem promising, and some things to find out/talk about on this visit are:

 

Is the sexual connection good?

 

Are either of you going to freak out when you come down from the honeymoon period and discover you're (gasp!) dating an actual flawed human being?

Would the two of you be able to close the distance in a reasonable length of time?

 

Another thing to think about are your long term goals/values:

 

I think you mentioned that he has grown (or nearly grown) kids. Does he want more? If not, would you be okay with that? Really really okay with that? This is one you can't go back on, and if you change your mind after a few years, that won't be a good thing (I think you said you're 31.)

 

Also, does this mean that you'd have to move near him so he can stay near his kids? If so, would you be okay with that?

 

Please don't say that you two had this all mapped out back then, I know you didn't. You've been asked many times over the past year whether you'd had these conversations and the answer was always "no."

 

You are all about the fairytale and romance, and not the nuts and bolts at all. You wouldn't want to risk fracturing the fantasy you were creating with this man and all the "feelings" you were enjoying by bringing it to that level right at the start.

 

I can relate. But you SHOULD HAVE. That was your responsibility to yourself. You chose not to. You traded that in for romantic endorphins. I don't blame you! I go for them too, and I have been guilty of not dealing with hardcore real life because I didn't want to put the thrills out. So ... stop putting it on him that he was "just talk" and "pretty words." You created that environment as much as he did. You are far more responsible than he is, because you are the one with the requirements and deadlines.

 

You need to be stricter with yourself unless you are going to be satisfied with a happy go lucky, whatever happens happens type of relationship. There is nothing wrong with that, by the way. It's just not what you want.

[Leigh 87]

Question: have you ever been single for a year? Like at least 12 months in your life?

 

 

It appears as though this goal (marriage + kids) has kept you on a mission, a mission that has denied you important time for self-reflection. Don't get me wrong, as a 30 year old single female myself, I know how anxiety inducing it is to age against this ticking biological clock and society's perceptions of what you 'should' be doing at your age. But I get the strong sense that you're currently mourning what you perceive as a lost opportunity to achieve these things as opposed to the loss of HIM. That's very odd.

 

 

Since the break up, your posts centre around how you are losing hope of your chance to achieve marriage and kids and asking the board if it's time to give up that dream. However, I see nothing about how much you miss him or are having doubts about your decision because of his personality/what he otherwise brought to your life etc etc.

 

 

What would those goals mean to you if achieved with the wrong person?

 

 

I also note the mention of previous guys that you found boring or whatever and chose not to continue dating. Well, sometimes the boring ('safe' type) that may not instill huge feelings of lust/chemistry in us, are actually who we need! Going for the token bad boys with whom you feel a connection is based on low self-worth, in my opinion. This is supported by the stuff in this thread about your ego/need to be validated by men and your disbelief that someone can stand losing you etc (as others have mentioned). And that was another thing you seemingly couldn't get your head around, not how you were going to move forward with the gap HE has now left post break up. But perhaps you guys didn't really spend all that much time together being LD and hence your ideals were keeping you in this type of dynamic under the perception that you were closer to your 'goals' (when in fact you were wasting time).

 

 

I think time alone to re-prioritise is a good option!

 

I know people who felt great chemistry with reliable men. Decent men who are marriage martial don't always have to go hand in hand with low or mediocre chemistry.

[winny]

Question: have you ever been single for a year? Like at least 12 months in your life?

 

 

It appears as though this goal (marriage + kids) has kept you on a mission, a mission that has denied you important time for self-reflection. Don't get me wrong, as a 30 year old single female myself, I know how anxiety inducing it is to age against this ticking biological clock and society's perceptions of what you 'should' be doing at your age. But I get the strong sense that you're currently mourning what you perceive as a lost opportunity to achieve these things as opposed to the loss of HIM. That's very odd.

 

 

Since the break up, your posts centre around how you are losing hope of your chance to achieve marriage and kids and asking the board if it's time to give up that dream. However, I see nothing about how much you miss him or are having doubts about your decision because of his personality/what he otherwise brought to your life etc etc.

 

 

What would those goals mean to you if achieved with the wrong person?

 

 

I also note the mention of previous guys that you found boring or whatever and chose not to continue dating. Well, sometimes the boring ('safe' type) that may not instill huge feelings of lust/chemistry in us, are actually who we need! Going for the token bad boys with whom you feel a connection is based on low self-worth, in my opinion. This is supported by the stuff in this thread about your ego/need to be validated by men and your disbelief that someone can stand losing you etc (as others have mentioned). And that was another thing you seemingly couldn't get your head around, not how you were going to move forward with the gap HE has now left post break up. But perhaps you guys didn't really spend all that much time together being LD and hence your ideals were keeping you in this type of dynamic under the perception that you were closer to your 'goals' (when in fact you were wasting time).

 

 

I think time alone to re-prioritise is a good option!

 

I have not read each and every post on this thread but enough over last few weeks to say this -

 

We are here on earth to achieve the purpose of our lives. That should be our main goal. And one of the main purpose is to understand ourselves, our self worth. Until and unless we do that we will never attract the right things into our life. As a person Venus, you have loads to work on. Do you think if you get married and have kids, you can instill the right values in those kids? The universe cannot trust you with new lives when you are not ready to take care of them. You have all the wrong goals. You really need alone time. You need to understand YOU first.

BF, Husband, marriage, babies - it doesn't really matter if you have them or not because none of these things will bring you happiness or contentment which you somehow seem to have assumed. You will be back on some other forum asking questions about these stuff next....

So take a clean break. Work on yourself.... reset your goals. Have faith.

[BluEyeL]

I'm a very practical person and I'm very much ok with you wanting marriage and kids and I understand why you are panicked about not being able to achieve this goal. I would like you to get this done.

 

To do that, look at what you're doing wrong. If the goal eluded you it means you're doing something that it is not working.

 

In my opinion it's the men you select, the time you waste with them and talking too much about the relationship too early. Please read some dating and relationship books and adjust the way you think so you can get what you want faster. Not just read but also do! Just reading would be like me reading diet books and still not losing the 20 lb. ok just a few things from me:

 

1. Never get in a LDR again . You don't have time for something with such low chance of working out

2. When men do not show consistent interest dump them inmediately

3. Do not come so strong with the marriage and kids talk. Ask the guy questions to learn how he thinks. You can figure out if he's the marrying type from indirect questions. If the guy falls in love with you and is the marrying type then he'll marry you. Play it cool, really , but if the guy clearly shows he's not the marrying type don't spend any more time on him.

4. Only date available men, emotionally and I. Other ways (local and unattached)

5. Consider the boring guys they are the best bet.

6. Get a dating coach. I had one and in six months I met my fiancée. It cost me $90/month it wasn't one of the super expensive ones. For that money I got phone and email access. I hated it when she told me to dump everyone I liked but in hindsight she was right. I listened to her and that's why I succeeded in achieving my goal.

[Sometymeswhy]

There is lots of good advice here Venus, but it's difficult to not chase after the bad boys who gets your heart pumping. They are exciting and have honed their skills at stringing women along. I was in the same predictament dating the bad boys but I married the good boy. The one you can bring home to family dinners and they fit in perfectly. This is they guy you need to rely on as a partner to help raise children and create stability for decades to come. Some of that is boring but you will feel at peace with the world and won't miss the uncertainty and drama that these flashy guys bring to your world.

 

Part of your problem has been the circle of men you were exposed to, particularly the Tinder crowd. Not much to work with there.

NOLA guy wasn't necessarily a bad boy but he was in the sense that he remained just out of reach. The wrong guys will position and keep themselves that way. Good news is you've come full circle with the notion of "when it rains it pours" with these new prospects and now you are better positioned to act on it.

 

In your early conversations with a new date you can ask them what they are looking for and listen carefully to how they respond. You'll get all the answers you need before you invest emotionally. Be wary when they say they are just looking for someone to hang out with and have a good time, and so on. And be super cautious about getting caught in the web of compliments...you are so sexy, beautiful, special, etc... these players know just what to say to a vulnerable woman. Makes you feel good and you ignore red flags and you hear what you want to hear. You now know this though, right?

[lana-banana]

Get real. You and your ex are only talking because you're lonely and break-ups are hard. Keeping up contact will only make it harder to move on. You (both!) need to grow up and detach. I'm not trying to be hard on you when you're already in a bad place, but this isn't healthy.

 

If you want to have better, more mature relationships, you need to behave like someone who has better, more mature relationships. The kinds of men you want to attract would not put up with this. Would you?