Wanting a guy with both a good career & good looks considered having high standards?

[Got it]

Huh? Seriously WTF? When have I ever said that this woman speaks for all women? Copy & paste that supposed comment I made into your post where I exactly said this? That's just ridiculous. Of course I know not all women have these standards that apply to this. I know there's a lot of women that don't care about a guy's job/how much money he makes, or doesn't care that he's not the most good looking guy.

 

And I was stating what I did because women had no problem with that topic about men, yet this topic is filled with bashing by women because some of you are obviously sensitive about it due to it being about women. You're the one jumping to conclusions about me by making false statements about me.

 

And where do you get this? Again, where has anyone said that you can't insult this woman? And that comment, right there, is where you are taking one woman and lumping all women together. You think that because a woman is arguing with you on this is solely tied to the fact that she is, what?, defending her sisterhood?

 

NO ONE is defending that this woman may not be unreasonable. What they are doing is taking the abstract argument, that a woman has a reasonable right to want a man who is parable financially/career wise. THAT IS IT.

 

YOU are the the one lumping women together with the idea that because you are saying something negative about one woman we are all taking offense solely for that reason. That is not the case.

 

And I have no issues about threads of similar for men. I think it makes reasonable sense to want to attract a mate of parable qualities. That is a no brainer to me.

[NJ123]

And where do you get this? Again, where has anyone said that you can't insult this woman? And that comment, right there, is where you are taking one woman and lumping all women together. You think that because a woman is arguing with you on this is solely tied to the fact that she is, what?, defending her sisterhood?

 

NO ONE is defending that this woman may not be unreasonable. What they are doing is taking the abstract argument, that a woman has a reasonable right to want a man who is parable financially/career wise. THAT IS IT.

 

YOU are the the one lumping women together with the idea that because you are saying something negative about one woman we are all taking offense solely for that reason. That is not the case.

 

And I have no issues about threads of similar for men. I think it makes reasonable sense to want to attract a mate of parable qualities. That is a no brainer to me.

 

Again, you're accusing me yet again. Seems you keep making false statement after false statement about me. I really don't know why you're even bothering posting if you keep doing this. If I need to make it very clear I meant the women who posted in that topic had no problem with that thread because it didn't have to do with women it was about men, which I thought would have been obvious to you about what I meant. And about this topic I meant the women who are in here being really argumentative because it's a topic about women, and some obviously aren't too fond of it. I thought it was obvious that I didn't mean all women, like I said just another post where you just want to be argumentative which you admitted you're an argumentative person which makes sense. I just don't understand why you have to keep attacking me with false accusations. We're just strangers on some damn forum, why are you even acting like this for?

[CrystalCastles]

And like I said, I have absolutely no problem with this. If you make good money than it's entirely your right to expect the man to make good money. But I kept saying I'd like to think that people would care more so about someone's personality & how much they like spending time with someone over stuff like money. But I guess everyone just has a different mentality on these things & I guess it depends on where you are in your life. But to each their own.

 

Well yeah, personality is important. But a starving artist can have a nice personality- it wouldn't mean I would want to date him though. When you're considering a long term partner, you have to consider a few factors. Personality is one of them, but other things are important as well. Like finances. I am not a gold digger in the sense that I've never mooched off anyone or expected anyone to pay for me. But I don't want anyone mooching off me either, whether they have a nice personality or not. There are guys out there who have a nice personality, are good looking AND make good money.

[NJ123]

Well yeah, personality is important. But a starving artist can have a nice personality- it wouldn't mean I would want to date him though. When you're considering a long term partner, you have to consider a few factors. Personality is one of them, but other things are important as well. Like finances. I am not a gold digger in the sense that I've never mooched off anyone or expected anyone to pay for me. But I don't want anyone mooching off me either, whether they have a nice personality or not. There are guys out there who have a nice personality, are good looking AND make good money.

 

True, but I guess it depends where you are in your life too. A 30 something year old woman is probably going to expect the guy to at least have a better than minimum wage job. And that's fine in my opinion as long as she has a decent job herself. While a 22 year old woman for instance probably won't care as much since her & the guy are likely just getting out of college or still in college.

 

What's your opinion about there being women out there that don't care what type of job a man has? Do you think that's a very low percentage of women?

Edited November 17, 2014 by NJ123

[thefooloftheyear]

True, but I guess it depends where you are in your life too. A 30 something year old woman is probably going to expect the guy to at least have a better than minimum wage job. And that's fine in my opinion as long as she has a decent job herself. While a 22 year old woman for instance probably won't care as much since her & the guy are likely just getting out of college or still in college.

 

What's your opinion about there being women out there that don't care what type of job a man has? Do you think that's a very low percentage of women?

 

Hmmmm

 

Have a daughter....Break your ass to raise her right...Spend 100K++ on putting her through a good college.... Then tell her that its A-O-K that she settle for the guy that makes 8 bucks an hour wearing the chicken suit at the AA ball game, because hey...."He's such a nice guy".....

 

TFY

[NJ123]

Hmmmm

 

Have a daughter....Break your ass to raise her right...Spend 100K++ on putting her through a good college.... Then tell her that its A-O-K that she settle for the guy that makes 8 bucks an hour wearing the chicken suit at the AA ball game, because hey...."He's such a nice guy".....

 

TFY

 

lol well not every woman wants kids or to be married.

[eye of the storm]

Anyone on here that posts super specific stuff about themselves is not smart. If you are a waiter you might mention that but you shouldn't mention you wait at chilies in Salt Lake City. She had no reason to get specific about what her job is and you have no right to demand it.

 

In a court of law they would say you have no standing on this issue.

 

As to her saying she wouldn't date a waiter unless the guy was pulling some serious $$. That is her right.

 

You keep claiming the person looking can't look for qualities such as jobs or looks unless they have them their selves. Again Yes they can. They can look for any attributes they want in a prospective partner. (Doesn't mean they will get them but they have every right to choose that)

 

Your claiming they can't, smacks of "life isn't fair". No life isn't. You see many "unequal" couples. Some work because both partners get something out of it. Some don't because one ends up carrying too much of the load.

 

But it is the world we live in. Like I said earlier. I don't date short guys. I am a very short female, but I refuse to date guys my height. By your demands I would only be allowed to date short men. Not gonna happen.

 

Everyone is made up of the sum of their experiences and their goals. For all you know (and you don't) she was very poor growing up and is determined to never go there again. For all you know she was involved in someone who didn't make much and she had to pull herself out of debt caused by him and is determined to not get in that situation again. Or she could have watched a successful friend go down the drain because their partner drained them financially. She could put a financial requirement on her partner choice for any of a million reasons. (including being shallow) But at the end of the day it is her choice and her consequences. Good or bad.

 

At the end of the day, when you get into a LTR you must have more than "I like them and they like me". Because that wears off. You must be able to enjoy time with them and be compatible with them. Your end goals and values need to be compatible. Because if you spend every penny and your partner is a compulsive saver, the fights are going to be epic and continuous. And money is in the top 2 of reasons for divorce. It is important. Saying it isn't is like believing in the tooth fairy, wanting it doesn't make it so.

 

No matter your intention, your post reeked of "women who have standards that don't include me" are wrong.

[CrystalCastles]

True, but I guess it depends where you are in your life too. A 30 something year old woman is probably going to expect the guy to at least have a better than minimum wage job. And that's fine in my opinion as long as she has a decent job herself. While a 22 year old woman for instance probably won't care as much since her & the guy are likely just getting out of college or still in college.

 

What's your opinion about there being women out there that don't care what type of job a man has? Do you think that's a very low percentage of women?

 

I agree with the top part, that's what I had said earlier.

 

I can't answer that question because I haven't taken a survey of all women, therefore I cannot speak for them, only for myself, and maybe my friends. All my female friends are getting degrees in high paying fields, so based on the women I know, none of them would be ok with dating a low income man. I've seen this in their choices of men- men who are either undergraduates or masters students also studying in fields that will pay them well when they get a job.

 

I'm sure there are women who don't care about a man's income whatsoever. However, most women I've encountered do, mostly because they don't want to support themselves and their boyfriend/husband.

[NJ123]

Anyone on here that posts super specific stuff about themselves is not smart. If you are a waiter you might mention that but you shouldn't mention you wait at chilies in Salt Lake City. She had no reason to get specific about what her job is and you have no right to demand it.

 

In a court of law they would say you have no standing on this issue.

 

As to her saying she wouldn't date a waiter unless the guy was pulling some serious $$. That is her right.

 

You keep claiming the person looking can't look for qualities such as jobs or looks unless they have them their selves. Again Yes they can. They can look for any attributes they want in a prospective partner. (Doesn't mean they will get them but they have every right to choose that)

 

Your claiming they can't, smacks of "life isn't fair". No life isn't. You see many "unequal" couples. Some work because both partners get something out of it. Some don't because one ends up carrying too much of the load.

 

But it is the world we live in. Like I said earlier. I don't date short guys. I am a very short female, but I refuse to date guys my height. By your demands I would only be allowed to date short men. Not gonna happen.

 

Everyone is made up of the sum of their experiences and their goals. For all you know (and you don't) she was very poor growing up and is determined to never go there again. For all you know she was involved in someone who didn't make much and she had to pull herself out of debt caused by him and is determined to not get in that situation again. Or she could have watched a successful friend go down the drain because their partner drained them financially. She could put a financial requirement on her partner choice for any of a million reasons. (including being shallow) But at the end of the day it is her choice and her consequences. Good or bad.

 

At the end of the day, when you get into a LTR you must have more than "I like them and they like me". Because that wears off. You must be able to enjoy time with them and be compatible with them. Your end goals and values need to be compatible. Because if you spend every penny and your partner is a compulsive saver, the fights are going to be epic and continuous. And money is in the top 2 of reasons for divorce. It is important. Saying it isn't is like believing in the tooth fairy, wanting it doesn't make it so.

 

No matter your intention, your post reeked of "women who have standards that don't include me" are wrong.

 

Just because I disagree with it doesn't mean they can't. It's their right, but I completely think it's wrong to do so personally. I just don't feel that someone without qualities they want in a partner shouldn't be asking for them themselves. Whether it's money, looks, personality, etc. It just feels so tacky to me personally. But that's my opinion. I never said they CAN'T, I said I don't think they should. I mean who am I or anyone to say what anyone else can or can't do. I don't give a ****, but I just don't agree with some other people's stance on standards that's all.

 

So having more money means more than having more in common with each other? What if the guy with the decent paying job has way more common interests than the other guy with the great job?

[Mangina]

I agree with the top part, that's what I had said earlier.

 

I can't answer that question because I haven't taken a survey of all women, therefore I cannot speak for them, only for myself, and maybe my friends. All my female friends are getting degrees in high paying fields, so based on the women I know, none of them would be ok with dating a low income man. I've seen this in their choices of men- men who are either undergraduates or masters students also studying in fields that will pay them well when they get a job.

 

I'm sure there are women who don't care about a man's income whatsoever. However, most women I've encountered do, mostly because they don't want to support themselves and their boyfriend/husband.

Hypergamy.

[Copelandsanity]

Nothing wrong with wanting a someone with a good career and good looks, but keep in mind that there are only so many good attributes a person has. The more or higher your standards are, the lesser your dating pool is going to be. If you want a man who makes $100,000, you limit yourself to 10% of the male American population. If you need him to be in the top 30% of looks, then that means your dating pool is 3% of American men. This doesn't even factor in the necessary character attributes that have a greater effect on long-term relationships than looks and money.

 

The way I go about things is this. If my ultimate goal is a LTR or marriage, the three things I will look for in a partner is:

 

1) Is she a nice person?

2) Is she a positive person?

3) Is she down-to-earth?

 

These are the attributes that have been proven to have the greatest effect on having a successful marriage. Only then will I take into account stuff like how successful and how attractive she is. Because if I reject someone initially based on the standard of income or looks, I might give up on someone who would make an amazing partner. Or someone who may not have looked like my "type" or traditionally attractive, but their personality or aura made me attracted to her. Or someone who may not be a professional, but she's a fisherman or she's dedicated her life to non-profit work.

[Copelandsanity]

The reason I used the fisherman example is because one of ex's friends was an attractive doctor who participated in the Olympics when she was younger. Her standards were a guy who was good-looking, built, and a professional. She ended up marrying a fisherman who was average-looking, a little overweight...but he was the greatest guy she's ever known.

[eye of the storm]

So having more money means more than having more in common with each other? What if the guy with the decent paying job has way more common interests than the other guy with the great job?

 

I never said that. I said good job (which I stated was subjective). For me in addition to that is attitude towards money. Plus several other items that don't apply to this conversation. He could have the best million dollar a day job but if he spends a million dollars a day...I would love to hang with the guy but LTR? Never.

 

My ExH had a good job, but his attitude toward money drained us and ruined our credit.

 

You seem to think there is a $ that constitutes a good job. For everyone that is subjective depending on their expectations and what they consider a good job. I have a friend whose husband is a plumber. That to her is a good job. To someone else, maybe not.

 

Like physical preferences, some people are just attracted to some types. One female CEO may prefer a "working man" while another would be horrified if her man wore anything less than a designer suit to work.

 

I actually think having certain things you look for in a mate is smart. It makes you think about what is important to you and what you will and will not accept. Hard boundaries and what you might be more flexible on. Kids, finances, debt, religion, goals, family obligations...all need to be items that should be discussed and if you two can't come to agreements/compromises then you both should move on. The whole I like you/you like me is good till about the 5th date. After that you need to start working on foundations.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion. Learned thru hard lessons by having married someone that I liked and who liked me.

[Got it]

Again, you're accusing me yet again. Seems you keep making false statement after false statement about me. I really don't know why you're even bothering posting if you keep doing this. If I need to make it very clear I meant the women who posted in that topic had no problem with that thread because it didn't have to do with women it was about men, which I thought would have been obvious to you about what I meant. And about this topic I meant the women who are in here being really argumentative because it's a topic about women, and some obviously aren't too fond of it. I thought it was obvious that I didn't mean all women, like I said just another post where you just want to be argumentative which you admitted you're an argumentative person which makes sense. I just don't understand why you have to keep attacking me with false accusations. We're just strangers on some damn forum, why are you even acting like this for?

 

And you are assuming this. You continue to assume this. You are assume that the woman that are arguing are doing so because you are saying something negative about a woman/women. And this isn't the case. You continue with these false statements.

 

You are lumping us all together and drawing an incorrect assumption about what we are saying without actually paying attention to what is being written.

 

Where is anyone arguing with you about this because your topic is "about women, and some are obviously aren't happy about it"? Where?

[serial muse]

True, but I guess it depends where you are in your life too. A 30 something year old woman is probably going to expect the guy to at least have a better than minimum wage job. And that's fine in my opinion as long as she has a decent job herself.

 

I'm confused by this thread. If this is your main point, then the woman you're complaining about answered it before you even started the thread, so the whole thing just falls apart. Your only rationale for doubting her is that she didn't tell you what she does - which, of course not, you're strangers having a conversation on the internet. But you took that as some kind of suspicious behavior? Why? That just seems odd and overly suspicious on your part.

 

Given all that, it really does sound like you're looking for something to be mad about, OP. Because I don't see anything of substance to complain about here. As I pointed out in my very first post on this thread.

 

Also, you never answered my questions from that post, waaaayyyyy back on page one, one of the very first responses, in fact. But they were questioning the premise of the thread, so perhaps not something you wanted to answer? Should I take that as suspicious?

Edited November 17, 2014 by serial muse

[GemmaUK]

I have dipped in and out of here and I honestly can't see a problem either.

 

 

The person and wants that the OP is talking about he agrees with anyway from what I have seen in later posts.

[MissBee]

Hmmmm

 

Have a daughter....Break your ass to raise her right...Spend 100K++ on putting her through a good college.... Then tell her that its A-O-K that she settle for the guy that makes 8 bucks an hour wearing the chicken suit at the AA ball game, because hey...."He's such a nice guy".....

 

TFY

 

Riight.

 

I remember my dad saying something like this. Granted, my parents didn't pay for my college tuition (I got scholarships) but, he commented some years back about how he can't have a million dollar daughter and have her take up a 2 dollar man :laugh:.

 

He didn't even mean it literally about money either and it makes sense. I think my parents would be secretly more confused and upset (although they'd still support my decision) if I decided to be with a man who was significantly outside of "my level."

 

In any event, I think this entire topic must only bother men who feel they don't measure up so are all upset because they feel women's standards leave them out. I don't think men who do feel they measure up would find such a mentality jarring, it would make perfect sense to them, both as someone dating, or like you, thinking as a father who has/might have a daughter one day. Who doesn't want the best for their child and in turn who doesn't want the best for themselves?? The way my parents raised me and the mentality I have in life has always been that I'd rather aim for the moon and land on a star than set my bar so low that I'm falling through tree branches instead. It's worked well for me!

 

The men I'm around as friends and in school are all successful and many will become high earners and the women they are around are the same. Their baseline for a woman is someone who is on their level of intelligence, probably education, they're attracted to her....then all other things are more defined, but the idea that all men supposedly don't care about a woman's job etc...this isn't true in my experience. Again, it seems like men who "measure up" so to speak, who are thinking long term and seriously, in fact do care but the ones desperate for any woman it seems don't. Not too many of my friends are married yet, but a few are or are dating seriously and ALL of them, men and women, are dating someone more or less comparable to them. None of my guy friends really think housewives are fashionable, nothing wrong with housewives btw, but it seems most of my guy friends and men I've dated liked the "power couple" idea more than the SAHM while they worked idea and almost unilaterally in dating conversations they've said they wouldn't date a woman who wasn't college educated and had ambition, in fact, in my own circle they seemed more strict about this than the women who most of us said we might consider it given other factors. The guys I know and men I've dated seemed to like the idea of their lady being "a boss" in her own right and them building together more than this idea the OP has that they simply could care less about what their gf/future wife would be doing. Sure...some of them might casually mess around with women they didn't feel all that comparable to, but in terms of serious stuff they want to bring home a certain kind of woman they feel comparable to and a large part of that has to do with her job/career.

 

Also: I think the difference between a job and a career should be made clear. I think OP mentioned that your job isn't who you are...sure. If I worked at a job like say Starbucks, that's not who I am. But my career...that is very much a part of my identity. I think that's a big difference. People's careers usually tend to require a lot more of them, match their personalities, their drive, they spend a large chunk of their lives thinking about it and working on it and it isn't a thing you turn on and off, while a job is something you simply do to make money and when you're done your hours you're done.

Edited November 17, 2014 by MissBee

[Got it]

Riight.

 

 

Also: I think the difference between a job and a career should be made clear. I think OP mentioned that your job isn't who you are...sure. If I worked at a job like say Starbucks, that's not who I am. But my career...that is very much a part of my identity. I think that's a big difference. People's careers usually tend to require a lot more of them, match their personalities, their drive, they spend a large chunk of their lives thinking about it and working on it and it isn't a thing you turn on and off, while a job is something you simply do to make money and when you're done your hours you're done.

 

This needs to be said again. This is really key. Outside of a male/female debate, the biggest difference is job/career focus.

 

I would greatly struggle with a significant other who had not experienced a career personally. I respect those that work jobs, I used to work jobs, but the mindset is totally different. So, as a female, I would need a man that could relate to the lifestyle/understanding that it requires.

[EasyHeart]

I haven't read this whole thread, but how is this even a question?

 

Good looks and a career (or on your way to one) are basic requirements for any kind of dating.

[thefooloftheyear]

 

In any event, I think this entire topic must only bother men who feel they don't measure up so are all upset because they feel women's standards leave them out. I don't think men who do feel they measure up would find such a mentality jarring, it would make perfect sense to them, both as someone dating, or like you, thinking as a father who has/might have a daughter one day. Who doesn't want the best for their child and in turn who doesn't want the best for themselves?? The way my parents raised me and the mentality I have in life has always been that I'd rather aim for the moon and land on a star than set my bar so low that I'm falling through tree branches instead. It's worked well for me!

 

.

 

Yeah..I do think some guys feel like they lose some power over the woman if she is successful or career driven..In some ways they feel like if the woman has less options(lacking of a good career or education), she'd be less inclined to bail out or judge them for their inadequacies..

 

But yes...As a dad myself to a daughter, I have made great sacrifices in both time and resources to make sure she is properly educated, wordly, and most importantly, that while she may want a man in her life....she wont need one..Even though she isnt at the age where I need to worry about it, I already feel bad for the poor bastard....Im gonna be a tough sell...He better be able to shoot lightning out of his ass.!!

 

TFY

[Got it]

Yeah..I do think some guys feel like they lose some power over the woman if she is successful or career driven..In some ways they feel like if the woman has less options(lacking of a good career or education), she'd be less inclined to bail out or judge them for their inadequacies..

 

But yes...As a dad myself to a daughter, I have made great sacrifices in both time and resources to make sure she is properly educated, wordly, and most importantly, that while she may want a man in her life....she wont need one..Even though she isnt at the age where I need to worry about it, I already feel bad for the poor bastard....Im gonna be a tough sell...He better be able to shoot lightning out of his ass.!!

 

TFY

 

Now that would be quite a skill set. :laugh:

[NJ123]

And you are assuming this. You continue to assume this. You are assume that the woman that are arguing are doing so because you are saying something negative about a woman/women. And this isn't the case. You continue with these false statements.

 

You are lumping us all together and drawing an incorrect assumption about what we are saying without actually paying attention to what is being written.

 

Where is anyone arguing with you about this because your topic is "about women, and some are obviously aren't happy about it"? Where?

 

Yeah, and you were assuming I meant all women. So it goes both ways.

[NJ123]

I have dipped in and out of here and I honestly can't see a problem either.

 

 

The person and wants that the OP is talking about he agrees with anyway from what I have seen in later posts.

 

Not really true due to some of the things she said. With her something tells me she's not this nice person like she claims to be yet she says she wants a good guy. She insults fat people by calling them "fatties", and tells people flat out to shut the **** up. So I just feel she's not exactly this great person, and don't get a nice vibe from her at all. And with the job situation as well. A waiter isn't a "career" job to her unless the guy is making big bucks, and flat out admitted she'd be with a waiter making good money but wouldn't if he didn't make much. I probably shouldn't of mentioned her at all when I made this topic since people keep referring back to her. I was just using her as the example to a general question about this. But obviously it didn't turn out that way which is my own fault.

[NJ123]

I'm confused by this thread. If this is your main point, then the woman you're complaining about answered it before you even started the thread, so the whole thing just falls apart. Your only rationale for doubting her is that she didn't tell you what she does - which, of course not, you're strangers having a conversation on the internet. But you took that as some kind of suspicious behavior? Why? That just seems odd and overly suspicious on your part.

 

Given all that, it really does sound like you're looking for something to be mad about, OP. Because I don't see anything of substance to complain about here. As I pointed out in my very first post on this thread.

 

Also, you never answered my questions from that post, waaaayyyyy back on page one, one of the very first responses, in fact. But they were questioning the premise of the thread, so perhaps not something you wanted to answer? Should I take that as suspicious?

 

Well she doesn't come across like a nice person at all like she claims to be. And true, she doesn't have to say what she does, but if she makes a thread & than refuses to answer most questions than that tells me she's hiding something.

 

And I didn't answer because I mainly only reply to the people that quote my posts.

 

And to answer your questions. She never stated what a good career is to her. She just strictly said she wants someone with a "career" & not a low paying job. She wants someone as her "equal" & someone with ambition, and good looks, and good personality. But she never responded to any questions about what her equal would be or what her lifestyle is like compared to the guy she wants. Or any type of questions like that. Than says she wouldn't date a waiter for example. Than someone asked if she would date a waiter working at an expensive establishment who makes good money & than she admitted yeah she would. And some of the things she says to some people on there is ridiculous. She throws out insults to people like I stated in previous post so she doesn't seem like the nicest person in my opinion. So there you go, I'm not hiding from any questions.

[GemmaUK]

Not really true due to some of the things she said. With her something tells me she's not this nice person like she claims to be yet she says she wants a good guy. She insults fat people by calling them "fatties", and tells people flat out to shut the **** up. So I just feel she's not exactly this great person, and don't get a nice vibe from her at all. And with the job situation as well. A waiter isn't a "career" job to her unless the guy is making big bucks, and flat out admitted she'd be with a waiter making good money but wouldn't if he didn't make much. I probably shouldn't of mentioned her at all when I made this topic since people keep referring back to her. I was just using her as the example to a general question about this. But obviously it didn't turn out that way which is my own fault.

 

 

 

So basically, you are angry with her for all these other reasons.

You wanted to vent. You made it a topic.

You do actually agree with her mindset.

You just are against that she calls people names like 'fattie'

 

 

I believe she was winding you up the wrong way when you posted this.

 

 

She is rude about people in calling them a name eg 'fattie- but actually what she is looking for is her choice, within her means and OK.

She is just verbal and openly so.

 

 

For the record. I am not into large men. However, I would not call anyone a 'fattie' because I see that as inherently impolite.

I would hate myself for that.