Wanting a guy with both a good career & good looks considered having high standards?

[NJ123]

So basically, you are angry with her for all these other reasons.

You wanted to vent. You made it a topic.

You do actually agree with her mindset.

You just are against that she calls people names like 'fattie'

 

 

I believe she was winding you up the wrong way when you posted this.

 

 

She is rude about people in calling them a name eg 'fattie- but actually what she is looking for is her choice, within her means and OK.

She is just verbal and openly so.

 

 

For the record. I am not into large men. However, I would not call anyone a 'fattie' because I see that as inherently impolite.

I would hate myself for that.

 

But how would we even know if this particular woman's standards are too high or not if she refuses to answer the questions? She can talk bad about guys she has dated & throwing insults at people yet she refuses to answer questions about herself to see whether her standards are too high or not.

 

And she claims she's a nice woman and wants a good guy. So yeah, I absolutely do not agree with her trying to find a good guy when she comes across as a huge bitch. It's fine for her to try to find her "equal" but she never says what her equal would be. And never states what her lifestyle is, or what she considers to be a good career. She just gives vague responses to all questions.

[serial muse]

But how would we even know if this particular woman's standards are too high or not if she refuses to answer the questions? She can talk bad about guys she has dated & throwing insults at people yet she refuses to answer questions about herself to see whether her standards are too high or not.

 

And she claims she's a nice woman and wants a good guy. So yeah, I absolutely do not agree with her trying to find a good guy when she comes across as a huge bitch. It's fine for her to try to find her "equal" but she never says what her equal would be. And never states what her lifestyle is, or what she considers to be a good career. She just gives vague responses to all questions.

 

Well, to be fair, you're asking us, who are several times removed from the conversation you had with her, to answer a question with limited information, and you're accusing women who are responding to the OP in good faith as being defensive, but meanwhile these other points that are now apparently central issues have only been trickling out through the thread.

 

Given the original OP, how could anyone possibly comment on anything other than whether her standards, on the face of it, seem logical? They do; even you think so!

 

All this other stuff is about her specific situation, not whether or not the actual standards are the problem. And yeah, I agree with Gemma - sounds like you just don't like her. Which is fine, she could well be a terrible human being, but that has nothing to do with whether her standards are a problem. See, women on LS field these kinds of "women and their unreasonable standards in dating" threads all the time, so this one just piles on, and feels a little bit like a setup of a thread when you tell us multiple pages in that she's a jerk and that's the real problem. Of COURSE you're going to get testy replies. These threads are tiresome, is why. If what you really wanted was to complain about what a nasty person she is, then LEAD with that; you'll get a lot more response than the generalized "unreasonable standards" trope. The OP was totally misleading.

[ufo8mycat]

But how would we even know if this particular woman's standards are too high or not if she refuses to answer the questions? She can talk bad about guys she has dated & throwing insults at people yet she refuses to answer questions about herself to see whether her standards are too high or not.

 

And she claims she's a nice woman and wants a good guy. So yeah, I absolutely do not agree with her trying to find a good guy when she comes across as a huge bitch. It's fine for her to try to find her "equal" but she never says what her equal would be. And never states what her lifestyle is, or what she considers to be a good career. She just gives vague responses to all questions.

 

I am totally confused - who cares? Why do you need to be the arbiter of standards? Or determine if they are indeed to high? I am not quite sure on why you keep returning this point. This woman is not accountable to you and she has no obligation to answer questions so you can determine if her standards are to high or not.

 

WRT to the second bolded point. I get that you don't think she is nice, but other people who know her might see it differently. "Nice" is another of those all encompassing statements that means different things to different people. The only people who need to decide if she is "nice" is anyone that is contemplating a relationship with her. Whether you think she is nice or not is completely inconsequetial.

 

Everyone wants someone nice. No one says, yeah - you know what I want? To be in a relationship with a total arsehat. Even if others can see the arsehattery from a distance, when you are smitten it is impossible to see.

 

There is no international standard for "nice". If she wants a nice guy and one likes her, it makes no difference that she is a total bitch.

 

You seem to find this whole saga unfair and as though this woman has a misplaced sense of entitlement.

[Tayken]

I haven't read this whole thread, but how is this even a question?

 

Good looks and a career (or on your way to one) are basic requirements for any kind of dating.

 

 

I hear you and your have a good point. The flip side of this of course is a good looking woman (subjective), with high school diploma or one of those Micky mouse (easy way out) 2yr local college diploma.

 

Personally, having been there done that, won't settle for such a woman again. People need to think past the moment i.e. pensions and living comfortably in the future. Do you want to be 60 - 70yrs old and still scraping around to pay bills?

[GemmaUK]

But how would we even know if this particular woman's standards are too high or not if she refuses to answer the questions? She can talk bad about guys she has dated & throwing insults at people yet she refuses to answer questions about herself to see whether her standards are too high or not.

 

And she claims she's a nice woman and wants a good guy. So yeah, I absolutely do not agree with her trying to find a good guy when she comes across as a huge bitch. It's fine for her to try to find her "equal" but she never says what her equal would be. And never states what her lifestyle is, or what she considers to be a good career. She just gives vague responses to all questions.

 

And maybe she really is just a total B!

 

 

But, does that mean all of us women are?

 

 

I've had a 'few' situations with a 'few' men.

I can't hate all men for it. I just dislike those particular ones or just figured that yep, they are entitled to that opinion and left it at that.

 

 

For the record I've had a few situations/disagreements with women too. I don't dislike all women for that.

[Tayken]

But, does that mean all of us women are?

 

Surely you can only speak for yourself here..Gemma?

[NJ123]

Well, to be fair, you're asking us, who are several times removed from the conversation you had with her, to answer a question with limited information, and you're accusing women who are responding to the OP in good faith as being defensive, but meanwhile these other points that are now apparently central issues have only been trickling out through the thread.

 

Given the original OP, how could anyone possibly comment on anything other than whether her standards, on the face of it, seem logical? They do; even you think so!

 

All this other stuff is about her specific situation, not whether or not the actual standards are the problem. And yeah, I agree with Gemma - sounds like you just don't like her. Which is fine, she could well be a terrible human being, but that has nothing to do with whether her standards are a problem. See, women on LS field these kinds of "women and their unreasonable standards in dating" threads all the time, so this one just piles on, and feels a little bit like a setup of a thread when you tell us multiple pages in that she's a jerk and that's the real problem. Of COURSE you're going to get testy replies. These threads are tiresome, is why. If what you really wanted was to complain about what a nasty person she is, then LEAD with that; you'll get a lot more response than the generalized "unreasonable standards" trope. The OP was totally misleading.

 

It's just some of you I feel were being really negative towards me with the tone of the posts. That was the vibe I got. And when I brought it up, than some you said I was wrong, but I'll never know everyone's intention. But I just don't like it when I feel like I'm being attacked. Some of the posts in here towards mine clearly had a really negative vibe towards me, & I still stand by that regardless of what anyone tries to tell me otherwise.

 

And I'll say it again what you bring to the table yourself is what you should be looking for in a partner. Everyone has a right to their own standards, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them now do I? To me high standards could be completely different than what someone else views as high standards. One person might think it's okay for an ugly man to have the standard of only wanting attractive women which is their opinion & their right. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

And yeah I absolutely think that woman is a nasty person. And I just don't agree with her standards due to some of the things she said. The waiter comment is what annoyed me. Since I said she would all of a sudden date a waiter if he made good money when asked by someone else about it, but before that said she wouldn't date a waiter & wants someone with a "career" job, but she never even specifically stated what would be considered a good "career" to her. So that's why I got the vibe from her that she just wants money because it doesn't seem it's about the job itself, it's more so about how much money they make. And yes, that's her right but I don't have to agree with it.

[GemmaUK]

Surely you can only speak for yourself here..Gemma?

 

*cough*

 

 

Being totally unsure if you are being complimentary or sarcastic I will stick with that *cough*

 

 

NJ, don't hate us all for what one or a few have done/expressed buddy!

 

 

She is one woman out of millions.

And hey, you don't have to date her!

 

 

Be thankful for that!

[NJ123]

*cough*

 

 

Being totally unsure if you are being complimentary or sarcastic I will stick with that *cough*

 

 

NJ, don't hate us all for what one or a few have done/expressed buddy!

 

 

She is one woman out of millions.

And hey, you don't have to date her!

 

 

Be thankful for that!

 

No! I don't hate anybody! Why do you keep assuming I hate people for? Yeah true, that one woman in the other forum I'm not very fond of but I don't HATE her. I don't even know her personally & I don't wish any ill will towards her.

 

And like I have said, all I want is a nice loyal woman that is attractive to me & that genuinely likes spending time with me.

[GemmaUK]

No! I don't hate anybody! Why do you keep assuming I hate people for? Yeah true, that one woman in the other forum I'm not very fond of but I don't HATE her. I don't even know her personally & I don't wish any ill will towards her.

 

And like I have said, all I want is a nice loyal woman that is attractive to me & that genuinely likes spending time with me.

 

Cos it sounded like you did! There has been some angst in this thread..

I think she just is one of those posters that wound you up - we ALL get them.

You are not alone by any stretch!

 

 

Ditto! Me too on the second bit!

We have time and the less narky we are the better our chances!

 

 

Picking battles is important. Letting off steam is important.

You just needed to let off some steam and I totally understand why.

YOU are what matters to you. she is irrelevant.

[ltjg45]

The only time I would think asking for a good looking guy with a good job is high standards is when she can't provide the same herself.

 

For example, if any of my coworkers at Walmart that isn't management said that, I would consider them to be crazy......and we hasn't got to the overall looks of these employees either.

 

Mind you, I would only date one of my managers anyway regardless of her income and she is at least 15 years older than me and she's foreign.

[Got it]

Interesting article about not going after a parable partner:

 

Harvard Business School study: It's not kids but husbands that hold women's careers back.

[NJ123]

Interesting article about not going after a parable partner:

 

Harvard Business School study: It's not kids but husbands that hold women's careers back.

 

So one's advice is to marry an a lot older man if you're a career woman so the guy can be a retired stay at home dad. I suppose that makes sense if you want to be with someone that much older. And it seems from this thread alone that looks/money matter the most to the majority of women, and everything else is secondary. Since even if you like the guy a lot & he has a great personality, but doesn't pull enough money, than he's persona non grata in terms of being dateable.

[Tayken]

Interesting article about not going after a parable partner:

 

Harvard Business School study: It's not kids but husbands that hold women's careers back.

 

 

Depends who you listen to, every situation is different and it only applies if the woman has a "career" to start with in the first place. I mean if she worked cashier/cleaning/admin office/grocery store/ coffee shop/unemployed in the first place, how is the man holding her back?????

 

It's babies, not discrimination, that's holding back women in the workplace - Telegraph

 

Why bias holds women back - CNN.com

 

https://hbr.org/2013/09/women-rising-the-unseen-barriers

[OwMyEyeball]

People only start to mind other people's standards when they look at themselves and realize they don't stack up.

[Got it]

So one's advice is to marry an a lot older man if you're a career woman so the guy can be a retired stay at home dad. I suppose that makes sense if you want to be with someone that much older. And it seems from this thread alone that looks/money matter the most to the majority of women, and everything else is secondary. Since even if you like the guy a lot & he has a great personality, but doesn't pull enough money, than he's persona non grata in terms of being dateable.

 

That is one example of how to do it. There are other ways, dating men in jobs verse careers, men willing/open to being SAHP, etc. But the crux of it is taking an approach similar to how men have taken and prioritizing one's career and expecting/wanting a SO that will prioritize the woman's career as well.

[Got it]

Depends who you listen to, every situation is different and it only applies if the woman has a "career" to start with in the first place. I mean if she worked cashier/cleaning/admin office/grocery store/ coffee shop/unemployed in the first place, how is the man holding her back?????

 

It's babies, not discrimination, that's holding back women in the workplace - Telegraph

 

Why bias holds women back - CNN.com

 

https://hbr.org/2013/09/women-rising-the-unseen-barriers

 

Of course. The point of this was tied to the discuss of careers oppose to jobs.

 

But even with that, having a spouse that is willing to take on household responsibilities to even shoulder the responsibilities will benefit all parties. The only other way around this is to have a traditional approach of one SAHP and one who is the breadwinner. But since most households today are joint workers there is a need to shoulder home responsibilities.

 

Personally, I think it is too much of a gamble having only one breadwinner in a household. With lay offs, terminations, etc that are so prevalent a household can go from "okay" to "crisis mode" in a split second when the breadwinner loses their paycheck for whatever reason. It helps hedge the bets to have both working so the financial impact is less. (But that is a side road to the discussion. )

[thefooloftheyear]

Of course. The point of this was tied to the discuss of careers oppose to jobs.

 

But even with that, having a spouse that is willing to take on household responsibilities to even shoulder the responsibilities will benefit all parties. The only other way around this is to have a traditional approach of one SAHP and one who is the breadwinner. But since most households today are joint workers there is a need to shoulder home responsibilities.

 

Personally, I think it is too much of a gamble having only one breadwinner in a household. With lay offs, terminations, etc that are so prevalent a household can go from "okay" to "crisis mode" in a split second when the breadwinner loses their paycheck for whatever reason. It helps hedge the bets to have both working so the financial impact is less. (But that is a side road to the discussion. )

 

This is a good point....And probably the number one reason that one spouse needs to support the other in this area...Its not like years ago...Very few people today are able to carry the whole load, and if they can/do, you can be sure that they are going to eventually wear down a bit..and potentially become resentful..

 

I dont want to repeat it, but the problem exists when one side deliberately or by default, encourages a situation where the other is dependent..This may benefit them if they feel insecure, as they create a dependency dynamic...Like that person wont be willing to poke a hole in their own lifeboat, by objecting...so they play along...Its not healthy, imo..

 

TFY

[RedRobin]

Interesting article about not going after a parable partner:

 

Harvard Business School study: It's not kids but husbands that hold women's careers back.

 

 

 

The advice to marry a much older man is ridiculous. Especially when he dies before her and deprives her of time/attention/sex she could be having with a similar age peer. Horrible advice. If the choice is to marry a much older man or adopt/sperm donor... I'd take the adopt/sperm donor. End of story.

[most_distant_galaxy]

It's not high standards, it's normal standards. I have even more than those.

[RedRobin]

It seems that lots of women need to re-think their expectations.

 

 

Much better to find a guy who is open to negotiation, fair-minded, and believes in a real partnership... no matter what is job/career might be. That is always what I've searched for. Very tough to find for women. Especially since I'm not a millennial.

 

 

https://hbr.org/2014/12/rethink-what-you-know-about-high-achieving-women

[Got it]

This is a good point....And probably the number one reason that one spouse needs to support the other in this area...Its not like years ago...Very few people today are able to carry the whole load, and if they can/do, you can be sure that they are going to eventually wear down a bit..and potentially become resentful..

 

I dont want to repeat it, but the problem exists when one side deliberately or by default, encourages a situation where the other is dependent..This may benefit them if they feel insecure, as they create a dependency dynamic...Like that person wont be willing to poke a hole in their own lifeboat, by objecting...so they play along...Its not healthy, imo..

 

TFY

 

I agree. I do think that it can start, with both parties having very good intentions, but over time things change, expectations/projections change, and they stop working as a team/partnership.

 

As a woman, speaking to women, I can not caution enough how vulnerable someone is without recent work experience. It is all well and good looking at the very noble desire to stay at home and raise one's kids but the lack of applicable work experience, over a substantial period of time, will leave someone struggling to get back into the workforce. There is much more that we need to do in the US to protect and prioritize parents and the focus on the next generation but the reality is, at this point, parents need to focus on protecting both their earning potential and raising of their children.

 

I have seen brilliant women, scrambling for entry work because of their lack of perceived applicable work experience for a decade or so. I caution women not to do it. Continue working, continuing with professional focused volunteer work, own business, etc. to keep the skill set honed and appreciated.

 

You never know if a divorce, death, disability, etc. will suddenly force the hand that the other parent will need to bring in the paycheck.

 

It is a sad state that we don't have more flexibility and financial freedom but, this is my position, on the current environment.

 

My husband and I may take turns taking "sabbaticals" of a couple years but neither will have a bigger gap than the other to keep each other's earning potential as high as we can as well as shoulder familial responsibilities. My husband wants to stay home if we have kids, as he wasn't able to with his kids. And, honestly, he would make the better parent for that and I have little interest in it. But I don't see him doing it for more than a couple years.

[Got it]

It seems that lots of women need to re-think their expectations.

 

 

Much better to find a guy who is open to negotiation, fair-minded, and believes in a real partnership... no matter what is job/career might be. That is always what I've searched for. Very tough to find for women. Especially since I'm not a millennial.

 

 

https://hbr.org/2014/12/rethink-what-you-know-about-high-achieving-women

 

I am surprised that is what you walked away from with that article. While, yes, women need to think about what their expectations are, there is a huge area of improvement that men and women in positions of power need to think about for their company's policies and culture.

[thefooloftheyear]

I agree. I do think that it can start, with both parties having very good intentions, but over time things change, expectations/projections change, and they stop working as a team/partnership.

 

As a woman, speaking to women, I can not caution enough how vulnerable someone is without recent work experience. It is all well and good looking at the very noble desire to stay at home and raise one's kids but the lack of applicable work experience, over a substantial period of time, will leave someone struggling to get back into the workforce. There is much more that we need to do in the US to protect and prioritize parents and the focus on the next generation but the reality is, at this point, parents need to focus on protecting both their earning potential and raising of their children.

 

I have seen brilliant women, scrambling for entry work because of their lack of perceived applicable work experience for a decade or so. I caution women not to do it. Continue working, continuing with professional focused volunteer work, own business, etc. to keep the skill set honed and appreciated.

 

You never know if a divorce, death, disability, etc. will suddenly force the hand that the other parent will need to bring in the paycheck.

 

It is a sad state that we don't have more flexibility and financial freedom but, this is my position, on the current environment.

 

My husband and I may take turns taking "sabbaticals" of a couple years but neither will have a bigger gap than the other to keep each other's earning potential as high as we can as well as shoulder familial responsibilities. My husband wants to stay home if we have kids, as he wasn't able to with his kids. And, honestly, he would make the better parent for that and I have little interest in it. But I don't see him doing it for more than a couple years.

 

 

Agreed...

 

And there is no reason that a woman/man who decides to be a SAHP,(which I stand strongly in favor of) needs to completely cease all career related development...There is a lot one can do..Maybe it might mean a change in how they orchestrate their lives, but I do agree...Just because someone is "taking care of the other" there is no guarantee that will last an entire lifetime..Use whatever free time to continue keeping your toes in the game, or planning for the next phase(when the kids are old enough)..

 

Illness, layoffs, whatever...one needs to seize control of their lives..Being dependent on someone else for my basic existence would scare the daylights out of me...

 

TFY

 

TFY

[RedRobin]

I am surprised that is what you walked away from with that article. While, yes, women need to think about what their expectations are, there is a huge area of improvement that men and women in positions of power need to think about for their company's policies and culture.

 

 

I'm not saying women need to lower their expectations. Just change them. Certainly ask more questions prior to marriage/kids and do as much as possible to eliminate gender based assumptions... I recommend women get it in writing.

 

 

I know more than one couple where the husband wanted to back out of his end of the deal once kids arrived, and tried to get his friends/family to help pressure the wife to give up or back off on her career rather than him making sacrifices too.

 

 

In other words... Find a partner who wants to be a partner.

 

 

Or stop having children. That's pretty much what it took for other countries to start making changes in work policies. Women simply decided to stop having kids and they started providing more incentives. That's what I did.

 

 

Having kids just felt like one more chore designed to improve my exH's quality of life, while burdening me with more work. So I didn't have them.