Tips for getting over an exit affair by now ex-wife

[Frogger]

I have read all 5 pages and it seems like there are lots of issues going on. One is abandonment and the other is the damage done by the affair. Both are equally horrible.

 

I think that pretty concisely nails it.

 

Time will help you heal. It looks like your actively trying to move forward!

 

Thank you. I really am. It is difficult, but I am trying. One thing I am trying to do as well is not beat myself up so badly when I do slip up. If I have a night wallowing in misery, I am trying to tell myself that is part of the process. It doesn't do any good to add more guilt on top of that by beating myself up for not moving on fast enough.

 

I haven't read all of this, but a fair bit of it. It seems to me that probably the wife was at a time of her life when she thought. "Is this all there is?", "Is this my life?"

 

I think that is easy to say, and it is something that is fairly commonly trotted out (it is basically mid-life crisis talk).

 

But I've thought about that, and it really doesn't work for me. So I ask myself, "Is this it?" Well, what does that have to do with being married? If I want something more, why can't I just go get it? I don't have to be divorced to do that. I just have to communicate with and work with my partner to figure out what to do.

 

My ex-wife had plenty of opportunity to grow and do whatever she wanted. Frankly, she had far more opportunity than 95% of women out there. She didn't work for many years. Didn't have to. She literally had 8-10 hours more per day than most women do to do whatever the hell she wanted. If she wanted to volunteer and make an impact, she could have done it. If she wanted to write poetry, she could have done it. Wanted to join a garage band, she could have done it. You get the idea.

 

We had plenty of money, and she spent a ton of it. Again, nothing holding her back here - no tight income, no possible desire for a better lifestyle.

 

I'm a fairly bright guy. I hate sounding egotistical, but I can hold my own end of a conversation. I'm not the most charismatic guy in the room, but I'm not terrible.

 

I am in decent physical shape - I happen to know the guy she had the affair with is in considerably worse physical shape than me.

 

Anything else, well, she could have said something to me. If she wanted to travel more, wanted to see things, wanted to hold stirring conversations about art, etc., she could have said something. I would have made those things work. Probably would have even ended up enjoying them.

 

Instead, she did nothing. She said nothing. And she left.

 

I think that you can always have this, "I'm not happy, there must be more," attitude. But at some point, you have to ask yourself, what am I really looking for? Is there something concrete that I really am missing? Or, as fellini and others (I think) summarized, am I always simply discontent because I always feel like I should have "more" or "fulfillment" without really knowing what that even means in a pragmatic, tangible sense.

 

I completely agree with this - note that I think that most of the folks who were advising to go NC were commenting before it was clear that there were non-adult children involved.

 

That definitely complicates things. The breakup of my marriage sounds quite strikingly similar to the OP's, and we had two kids ages 6 and 8 at the time. It added another dimension and burden to the process, but it was hugely important to me that we work out a way to continue to be cooperative, supportive co-parents, in spite of the fact that it would have been lots easier for me to move on if I had shut her out (and I certainly felt like I had the moral high-ground to be an ass about things.)

 

Yes, I will not go no contact to the extent it interferes with seeing/raising my children. I am very fortunate here. We have had no disputes about the children, and have agreed we do not want to have any. We have been very flexible so far. We have given the kids the standard (but heartfelt) speech that it is not their fault, that we are going to do our utmost to make sure they are comfortable and this is as seamless as possible for them, and that they can talk to either of us or both of us together any time. We told them that we will not use them in any kind of tug of war, and that if they ever feel the slightest indication of that, they can talk to either one of us about it.

 

I have not spoken with my ex-wife for six days, but I have been texting my kids, etc. Honestly, during this first week out of the house, I want to minimize contact to the extent possible. However, I have made sure my kids know I am there. I've been communicating with them directly. And I will be working back into their lives as soon as possible (they are going with me to my sister's for Thanksgiving, for example, so we will be together the entire holiday through the weekend). Last night was actually literally the first communication I had with my ex-wife since I left the house. It was to verify that my daughter has an event tonight, and that I would be there. I literally texted nothing more than that.

 

Part of the reason I am currently in an extended stay hotel is because I could not find an immediate lease that allowed me to stay in the same school district (the area we live in has mostly only single family homes, so it is not as easy to find a place to rent on short notice). It was important to me to find a place in the same school district (and I have, it is just that the lease does not start until January) so that the kids could get off the bus at my place or their mother's place, so that they would remain close to their friends no matter whose house they were at, etc.

 

I would much rather move closer to my job, but at least until my kids graduate high school, I will be living within a few miles of their mother's house so that it is as easy on them as possible. (Admittedly, it also makes it easier for me in the sense that I won't have to drive an hour to pick them up, etc.)

 

I struggle to buy this idea, I really do. That an intelligent women lives with an unhappy relationship, and she's paralysed with indecision until the other man arrives on the scene. I expect this happens on occasion, but I rarely think it applies.

 

I believe, in the majority of circumstances, that the wayward partner finds themselves in an affair and then reinvents – rewrites – their relationship history in order to justify their indiscretion. I -was- never happy. I -had- issues with the marriage. Why don't they ever bring it to the table? They don't because they didn't. The marriage had to be failing, otherwise they'd be reprehensible people. And who wants to admit that?

 

Honestly, I kind of agree with this as well. Or maybe a variant - the person had noticed that they were getting itchy. Or they were looking for that nebulous "something" that I previously discussed, that you cannot really pin down and may ultimately be impossible to obtain. Then someone flatters them often enough, or shares some similar interests that they discuss at work. They start oversharing with that person, and undersharing with their own spouse. Suddenly, that person "gets them" in a way the spouse does not (in part because they've literally blocked their spouse out from communication with them). Then the other person slowly starts stirring in thoughts about how they really seem unhappy, how they are there for "support," etc.

 

Then, the spouse "realizes" that they really always were unhappy, etc. As you said, changing their own history as justification for the bad acts of not setting appropriate boundaries with the new person.

 

Again, I'm not trying to rewrite my own history and say that I was perfect here. I know there are things I can improve. I know that I have flaws. But I also think that if you are "unhappy," you need to work with your partner to figure that out. Because if your partner is making you unhappy, they deserve to know that and deserve to be able to work on the problems. And if your partner is not the one making you unhappy, well, perhaps you should think about whether the problems really have anything to do with the marriage at all. Perhaps the problems are internal to you and you need to find some solutions within yourself. Perhaps they are from outside of the marriage. I would argue that in either case, you probably should not have to leave your partner to try to solve those issues. I would even argue that perhaps, if you let your partner in on your feelings and problems, they would undertake the role of a partner and do their best to help you with them.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Frogger

[Frogger]

Well, I saw her and the children tonight for the first time in a week (for one of my kid's concerts).

 

I focused entirely on my kids. She said things a few times to try to join in conversation. I did my best to effectively ignore her (not in a directly rude way - I basically let her talk and then just kept talking to my kids). I basically tried to be polite but not engage her. Talked to her about my taking the kids to a movie this weekend (day and time basically), but that was it. Said goodnight to them all and then left.

 

It feels incredibly counter-intuitive, but I'm trying to do this the way I am supposed to in order to move on.

[dichotomy]

The best route with her is not to ignore her, or be rude, as your kids need to see your pleasant enough - but as I think you say - kind of a touch indifferent and blase.

 

Try to laugh a little get some comedy movies/shows to watch, this was actually a major piece of my recovery from my divorce.

 

Also - I sense some self esteem issues, and lack of experience in dating in the past. I am glad your getting to the gym and a therapist. Don't forget good diet and vitamins and supplements . Working out - would suggest try some different things - a program called "5x5 strong lifts", yoga classes (good for peace of mind and meeting women), HIIT (sprinting+walking), and maybe a martial arts or boxing class at a nearby center. Some new clothes. Also try reading some books for self improvement, including sexual techniques .

 

This is tremendous hit for you (I remember mine), you have a chance now to reinvent yourself, to grow, to be better. Take it.

 

I Will Be Better (The Comeback) - Trailer - YouTube

Edited November 22, 2014 by dichotomy

[Trimmer]

Well, I saw her and the children tonight for the first time in a week (for one of my kid's concerts).

 

I focused entirely on my kids. She said things a few times to try to join in conversation. I did my best to effectively ignore her (not in a directly rude way - I basically let her talk and then just kept talking to my kids). I basically tried to be polite but not engage her. Talked to her about my taking the kids to a movie this weekend (day and time basically), but that was it. Said goodnight to them all and then left.

 

Ha ha... I mentioned earlier the ego of linking to one's own posts, and now I'm going to do it. Here are a couple of my posts from long ago when I was working out how to deal with my ex-wife, when I really didn't want to deal with my ex-wife at all. But we have kids, so...

 

Perspective

 

Almost Lost It

 

I think these say basically the same thing, but maybe each gives a little different twist on it... Anyway, this has been my technique for continuing to deal with her as a co-parent in the aftermath of a very painful loss of her as a wife.

[Frogger]

Well, I have survived my first week out of the house. I did pretty well on not making contact; other than to arrange to see my kids a few times over the weekend, I did not contact her at all.

 

I saw her for the first time in a week on Friday night, because we had to attend my kid's concert together. That was actually pretty easy, as I was really far more focused on my kids than her. Then I saw her again on Sunday, when she dropped my kids off so that we (I and my kids, not her and I) could spend time together.

 

Man, I admit that it was difficult. I bent a little bit, but honestly think I did pretty well for myself in the moment. Minimized (wasn't perfect, but also did not open a vein) discussion about anything other than the kids. Only spoke with her for a couple of minutes, and tried to suppress my instinct to ask questions, etc. Was not as good as I would have liked to have been about being confident, in a good place, etc., but also did not break down, tear up, go into recriminations, etc.

 

Admittedly was feeling very weak after she left and this morning and almost gave in and reached out to her, but I succeeded in not doing so, and our only conversations have been text messages about paying for some bills relating to the kids. (I kept those directly on point - taking care of the bills, filing for health plan refunds, etc.)

 

So not a perfect 100%, but I'm going to try to look on the positive side and say I did pretty well, all things considered. I think I have my strength back up, and have subdued my temptation to reach out to her for the moment. Back to figuring things out for myself, and not thinking about her.

 

Onward and upward.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Frogger

[prekopsian]

Keep at it, Frogger. It sounds like you're on the right track.

 

P.

[BeholdtheMan]

right now she is using the classic "I need to be on my own and find myself" line.)

 

You need to detach and do the 180

 

All her words and actions right now are saying "you are not important to me"

Clinging to her, waiting for her "decision"...you don't want to do that. You want to change that dynamic.

 

You should be the one judging her worthiness, not the other way around. In all honestly, I recommend that you start working on yourself and consider dating other women. Your wife couldn't care less about you.

[elaine567]

You need to detach and do the 180 YES

 

All her words and actions right now are saying "you are not important to me"

Clinging to her, waiting for her "decision"...you don't want to do that. You want to change that dynamic. YES

 

You should be the one judging her worthiness, not the other way around. YES

In all honestly,I recommend that you start working on yourself YES

and consider dating other women. WHAT?

 

It has only been a week, and he is only just keeping it together and he should date other women???

Not exactly fair on the other woman either - she can offer him a tissue and let him cry on her shoulder...

 

Surely there is enough stuff to worry about here, without the complications of another relationship...

[Frogger]

You need to detach and do the 180

 

All her words and actions right now are saying "you are not important to me"

Clinging to her, waiting for her "decision"...you don't want to do that. You want to change that dynamic.

 

You should be the one judging her worthiness, not the other way around. In all honestly, I recommend that you start working on yourself and consider dating other women. Your wife couldn't care less about you.

 

It has only been a week, and he is only just keeping it together and he should date other women???

Not exactly fair on the other woman either - she can offer him a tissue and let him cry on her shoulder...

 

Surely there is enough stuff to worry about here, without the complications of another relationship...

 

 

I think BeholdTheMan is just a bit late to the thread and is offering good general advice. I doubt it was intended to mean literally, "Start dating someone this instant." I take the meaning (if I can expand it a bit) to be, "You need to move your focus from your ex-wife to yourself and your own happiness as you are, and part of building yourself will eventually be seeing the possibility of yourself with a woman other than your wife and taking that opportunity when it comes."

 

I have these occasional epiphanies, where I feel like I have a mental "breakthrough" of sorts, but I admittedly have previously found it hard to keep in the mindset I am in when I have the epiphany for a longer period of time. For some reason, I had one last night. Let's hope it sticks.

 

Last night's epiphany was that I really am insecure, and that I need to move beyond that. If I dig down and am honest, I put too much stock in my ex-wife as a "concept." Part of my problem of detaching from her is not knowing what else I have to move to, feeling like my identity is tied up in her, feeling like I am boring and alone without her. I think I can move beyond that. I have always intellectually known that I need to detach from her, but I need to feel that detachment and genuinely let go, rather than just intellectual know that I need to do it.

 

But more than just detaching, I need to be comfortable in my own skin, with who I am. Honestly, that is where I run into some conflict with the 180. Because I always feel torn. If I want to stay in for the night alone and watch a stupid movie, I always feel like I'm "failing" somehow, because I'm supposed to be growing, meeting new people, engaging in new hobbies, undertaking new activities, etc. I first and foremost need to be content and comfortable with myself (so long as what I am doing is not genuinely self-destructive).

 

I realized that a large part of what I need to do right now, over the next six months, is to simply calm down and be comfortable with myself, whatever that is. I do want to move on, and I do want to explore some new hobbies, etc. But I can't turn working on myself into a tool to criticize myself for not doing enough, for not getting out enough, etc. First and foremost, I want to be content with who and what I am, including who and what I am alone without anyone else. (Please realize, I'm not intending to use this as an excuse for becoming a shut-in, just to easy up off the pressure I put on myself to be "doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I do not need a self-criticism loop running in my head always saying that I should have gone out to this meetup or that meetup.)

 

And I can get there.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Frogger

[fellini]

These are very important issues you have identified. In short, you need to disconnect from your perception that you are you only if you orbit in the world of your ex.

 

It's probably very true that you actually are comfortable with who you are, as you are now. I think if you look at your life, you can recognise that when you were married, there were long hours and times when you were content, alone, but not feeling alone. Happy. You were comfortable being you being in the relationship you had.

 

What has disappeared is the relationship with your SO, not you. You are still the same guy, and your baseline happiness: that happiness you have inside you just sitting down quietly on the couch not thinking of anything much at all - that happiness does not have to disappear. It belongs to you. The happiness that comes on top of that, that comes from the pleasure you receive interacting with others around you, with your hobbies, sports, friends, this has changed. But the stronger, the deeper the baseline happiness that we can develop in us, the more we can practice self love, IN FACT is the true solution to our feeling great in this world. Anything on top of that is icing. And as others have hinted, and is beginning to find its way into conventional western ideas of love: The more self love you have the better partner you can be with a significant other because you learn that you do not need them to be with you anything but themselves.

 

When my WS put me into this horrible state of trauma that you are experiencing because of her affair, the first thing I really understood, my epiphany as you rightly call it, was that I needed to get over my FEAR of losing/ending my marriage. And that FEAR is MINE to work on, it has ZERO to do with my WS, it is about me taking my comfort level and working on that, NOT on getting something ELSE, something MORE from my WS. Your walking wife is NOT your problem. It is how you are responding to it. She is not yours, you are not hers, and working towards internalising that idea into something like a personal value is fundamental to overcoming our dependence - our imagined dependence on others for our happiness.

 

Good luck. Practice self love - it is not selfish, it is a first and necessary step to finding your place and peace in the world.

 

 

I realized that a large part of what I need to do right now, over the next six months, is to simply calm down and be comfortable with myself, whatever that is. I do want to move on, and I do want to explore some new hobbies, etc. But I can't turn working on myself into a tool to criticize myself for not doing enough, for not getting out enough, etc. First and foremost, I want to be content with who and what I am, including who and what I am alone without anyone else. (Please realize, I'm not intending to use this as an excuse for becoming a shut-in, just to easy up off the pressure I put on myself to be "doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I do not need a self-criticism loop running in my head always saying that I should have gone out to this meetup or that meetup.)

 

And I can get there.

[prekopsian]

Hi Frogger

 

Any updates? How are you doing?

 

P.

Edited December 16, 2014 by prekopsian

[Frogger]

Hi Frogger

 

Any updates? How are you doing?

 

Hey, thanks for asking.

 

Emotionally things have been fairly up and down, as I suppose one might expect. Things were getting a little better in terms of being apart, but for some reason the last couple of nights I have gotten very little sleep, finding myself waking up with my mind running on the affair and the feelings of hurt that come from that. It is still hard for me to detach and accept, though I am trying.

 

I am still in the extended stay hotel. That is actually okay. It is getting a little old, because it sometimes feels like a symbol of my life on hold. But it should be only for a few more weeks, a month at maximum.

 

I am doing my best to remain active, and do the things I am supposed to be doing. I am doing daily meditation (along with this book): Mindfullness-Eight-Week Plan. I have been spending 30 minutes on the treadmill walking (quickly - I'm getting in 2.5 miles per session) at least four times per week, usually five. I have just started weight lifting in a gym (so today I feel like someone hit me in the thighs with a crowbar from doing squats for the first time). I plan on doing that three times per week, in accordance with the Stronglifts 5x5 that dichtomy mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

I am also trying to socialize. It has not particularly been successful to the extent that I feel like I have found any new or potential new friends, but I am trying to get out there. I have gone to a meeting for divorcees and separated people. I have gone to events like card-game nights, board game nights, etc. on meetup.com. I have volunteered to pack food for the hungry. Things like that.

 

I am signed up for and reading the first book for a book club (though one thing I realized is that while book clubs are "social" activities, that is somewhat misleading as you basically read alone and then meet once per month - I understand part of the idea is that you like the people you meet at book club and go out with them for other events as well - we'll see what happens).

 

I am seeing an individual therapist a couple of times per week (while, actually two therapists independently once per week each, as I really wanted to get some more time in, at least in the early stages).

 

One thing that I am very happy about is that my kids seem genuinely happy to see me when we get together. I've had them pretty much every weekend - we've watched football, gone to movies, gone to restaurants, gone to the swimming pool, etc. I'm trying to continue to think of activities for them so that we don't just sit around watching television together. It's not a natural for me (I'm not a natural with kids, but I try), but I think I'm doing fairly well. Again, they seem very happy with spending time with me, and I know I am spending time with them.

 

We in particular watched some comedy movies as dichotomy suggested. Let's just say that Airplane has not aged well, but they got a big kick out of Clue (the movie).

 

No contact has been mixed success. Obviously I am limited in my ability to do it completely because of the kids. I consider no contact in my case to be minimizing contact other than as necessary to handle logistics involving the kids.

 

I did not speak, text, etc. to my ex-wife for a month. Then, for whatever reason, I just got that compulsion (that I've read about over and over, though it did not make it easier to resist) to want to talk to her about what happened. We had an initial discussion at a very high level. I at least managed to cut myself off with the excuse that I did not want to keep the kids waiting (I was there to pick them up). We had another discussion a few days later (to kind of follow up) that was relatively pointless - she was back to saying next to nothing (in fairness, I think she was quite tired at the time).

 

So kind of a minor hiccup with no contact, but nothing explosively bad (no drunken calls begging for her to take me back, etc.).

 

I talked with a mutual friend. It was strange. There is way too much from that discussion to summarize adequately, so I will pick out the high points. She said it was somewhat clear from the very beginning that the relationship was rocky. That my wife was unhappy. That she complained to this mutual friend about various things. (Some of these things also mirrored what my sister said - my wife directly denied that she made any such complaints, and said that they were "projecting" what they would have wanted in a relationship and that my wife did not have a problem with these things.)

 

The odd things are: (i) our mutual friend said that the things my ex-wife complained about basically contained a strangely skewed version of how things were; and (ii) our mutual friend was amazed to learn some of the things I had mentioned that put some of the complaints in context; and (iii) I was amazed to learn that the things my ex-wife complained about with the mutual friend were things that my ex-wife actually directly encouraged me to do.

 

It was a tough conversation to have, because I also did not want to spend the conversation criticizing my ex-wife, so I tried to be fairly circumspect. I do not think it does any good to embarrass my ex-wife with a mutual friend or try to "win wars" in that way.

 

The mutual friend basically ended the conversation by saying that my ex-wife brought a ton of baggage into the relationship with her. That she basically needed me to be a particular archetype that repeated a family relationship she had growing up, and that she therefore made me into this character rather than treat me as a real person. She said that I did not ask for that treatment, and that I was not the same as the family member my ex-wife grew up with, but that my ex-wife simply forced that same pattern into our relationship.

 

Long story short, she ended the conversation with, "This divorce and the issues you had say a lot more about [ex-wife's] issues than you. You will at some point get angry about this, and you have every right to be angry."

 

Now I take that with a grain of salt, because obviously friends (even mutual friends) are going to be reticent to take you to task and heavily criticize you when the wound of the relationship is so fresh.

 

Then, strangely, this past Saturday (so a couple of days ago) my ex-wife emailed me an article about why relationships last (and why they fail). With a simple statement "Decent article" accompanying it from her.

 

I'm not exactly sure why she sent it. I did send something back (fairly lengthy) responding. Perhaps a mistake, but it is what it is. Again, I tried to own up to things that I could have done better, while also suggesting that some things I could have done better were hard to implement because my ex-wife learned to keep her hurts and pains hidden from me as part of her childhood growing up, so at the same time she was apparently upset with me about things, she was not only telling me everything was fine, she was actually reassuring me to keep doing those things.

 

Basically, I tried to respond and be somewhat sympathetic to the point of the article (that relationships need expressions of kindness, support, and attention). I could have done better in those areas, I know that is the case. And while I wanted to avoid criticizing her (telling her about her problems is not going to help right now), I also wanted to give her some understanding that I may have stumbled in some areas because I thought she was fine with our lives together because she was reassuring me that she was. Basically, that the behavior she was purportedly upset with I was not doing because I did not care about what she wanted, but because I did not know she had any issue with it (and because she affirmatively stated the opposite, that I should be comfortable in my own skin, enjoy my hobbies, etc.).

 

There frankly is a separate issue as to how reasonable some of the things that purportedly made her unhappy are, but again, I do not think it is particularly fruitful to attack those issues with her, as it will merely make her defensive.

 

Honestly, right now I am debating between engaging her a bit further and just continuing no contact. As I mentioned, I have no idea why she sent me the article. It could be anything from an invitation to discuss things rationally, an attempt to show that she is a "friend" to me in responding to some of my requests for understanding, an attempt to take a passive-aggressive shot at me for why she thinks the relationship really failed (even though she apparently cannot say directly then), an attempt to be a "friend" to me to help me avoid similar mistakes in future relationship, etc. I don't know really.

 

Right now, I'm trying not to over-analyze it and mostly let it go, but it is obviously a bit easier said than done. And after all of this, I still honestly miss her in a lot of ways and at times want her to come back. (That obviously depends on an interpretation where this other guy was just a short term infatuation that never went anywhere, which I also realize is unlikely to have actually been the case just playing the odds, but again, I'm not fully rational about any of this stuff yet - I'm still in denial in some ways.)

 

So that's where I am right now.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Frogger

[harrybrown]

Is she still with the OM?

 

Time to start back with the 180 and NC.

 

You can do so much better. She could do this again to you, and probably would.

 

Someone that loves you would not do this to you.

 

She is not the same person that you think you married.

 

Focus on your kids and yourself, but up the 180. Your future will be so much better with her out of your life.

 

Sorry that you had to have so much pain, but focus on yourself. Hope you find some peace in the future.

[Frogger]

Is she still with the OM?

 

No idea whether she is still with the OM, or ever really was with the OM (or at least to what degree). Honestly, that is still part of the problem. I have no idea the extent to which she was ever with the OM. I know that something happened (at least an emotional affair), but not much more than that. She, of course, denies that anything physical happened (I have no idea if anything has happened since the divorce in early November, or if she would admit to it if it did).

 

She basically said that I really overestimated what happened, that she basically let texting someone for support while she was unhappy get a bit out of hand (because she had been so unhappy for so many years), and that she did not know what she would be doing in the future. She would not rule out that whatever the hell they were doing would develop into a real relationship, but also said she did not know if it would.

 

The worst thing that happened (which I think I reference earlier in the thread in more detail) is that I know she had set up to meet him (or travel with him, I don't know) to another city for a long weekend. (I found this out through chat logs.)

 

She claims she did not do it, and went somewhere on her own that weekend to clear her head, because at the end of the day, she realized it would be wrong. Claims that the trip, even if she would have gone on it, was not intended to be for weekend sex in the hotel or anything like that, but basically a way for her to get out of town with a friend, and admittedly see whether there was any basis for possible future romance between them (this trip was very close to the divorce, but I do not know the extent to which it was planned before or after she told me she wanted to leave.)

 

I have no solid evidence either way. I'm smart enough (using my rational brain) to know that it is classic cheater behavior. On the other hand, I have no direct evidence, and some of what she said happened actually did turn out to be backed up by evidence (for example, I later found out, without her knowing, that there was a huge spike in text messages to and from the guy starting around when exactly she said she started communicating with him more often - i.e. when the "emotional affair," whatever it was, started).

 

Of course I want to believe that she thought she was deeply unhappy, pretty much turned to this guy for emotional support, but never did anything physical (and that even the emotional support was pretty much just that - support in leaving the relationship that she let go a little too far). That's obviously a lot easier for my ego to handle than, "I fell in love with this guy while we were still technically married (even if only 3-4 months before the divorce) and ****ed him seven ways till Sunday."

 

I'm smart enough to know that the latter is a likely possibility. I know how much people who have affairs lie. I know how they trickle truth. I know that she originally lied by saying there was no one else, lied about the reason she was going to be gone that weekend (I later confronted her). I know she quite likely lied about where she actually went that weekend, and what she did. I just do not have solid proof.

 

At this point, I know the right answer is frankly to stop looking for solid proof or questioning things, because that almost implies that there could be a relationship in the future if I could determine she had not been incredibly unfaithful. But that is silly, if for no other reason than she has expressed no solid indication that she even wants to come back to a relationship. It is kind of silly for me to care about whether she had an affair when the relationship for all intents and purposes appears gone forever regardless of whether it happened. (Though, of course, that does not stop me from obsessing over it from time to time, like last night when I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it.)

 

Time to start back with the 180 and NC.

 

You can do so much better. She could do this again to you, and probably would.

 

Someone that loves you would not do this to you.

 

She is not the same person that you think you married.

 

Focus on your kids and yourself, but up the 180. Your future will be so much better with her out of your life.

 

Sorry that you had to have so much pain, but focus on yourself. Hope you find some peace in the future.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate it. Regardless of how quickly I can stop the obsessing and thinking about her, I am certainly doing my best to continue to keep myself occupied and growing (what I think of as the essence of the 180 - building a better me and finding my own happiness). I think that I am somewhat naturally a "low energy" personality type. I have to work to keep myself from watching TV, playing videogames, etc. (Though I do at least keep myself at an appropriate weight, etc.) But I am doing what I can, being with my kids, and as mentioned, trying to make positive movements in areas such as exercise, meeting people, volunteering, etc. For example, tonight I am going out for drinks with an existing friend.

 

I also think things will get easier once I can finally get moved into my own place, instead of an extended stay hotel.

 

It's hard to believe in the "you will find someone better for you" part, because honestly, I do not meet a lot of people, or a lot of women. The activities that I have done so far, I have met no one that really clicked with me or that I thought would click with me. (I'm not ready for dating, know I won't be for a long time, but at the same time I can still notice people and think, "Hey, she might be nice, she might be interested in me," but that hasn't even remotely happened yet, I really haven't seen anyone.) Again, I do not have a dating history before my wife. Then I was married to her for around 20 years. In that time I have not had to beat off women with a stick trying to be with me; I cannot think of a time during my marriage where I noticed a woman trying to flirt with me, etc. I guess I'm just not that type of person that attracts people or something. Who knows.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Frogger

[Frogger]

Well, it just become more and more apparent that my ex-wife is really "gone." She is now dating the other person. Dropped the kids off at my mother's house (nothing unusual there - basically having the kids see grandma) and then spent the long Christmas weekend from Friday until today in another city with the other guy (it seems fairly certain, even by her own admission, that this is what she intended to do, even though she tried to leave a little wiggle room).

 

My emotions have been pitching all over the place. Frankly, the last week it has been a ton of guilt and self-blame of myself for causing this to happen.

 

But fortunately, for the last couple of days, I have come around. I do not want to say this is acceptance and moving forward, because I've felt like I've been there before, only to fall back again. But right now, I at least feel a bit more stable. Who knows what I actually feel in my heart of hearts (I've learned that can be hard to know for sure), but at least in my head, I believe that she mistreated me incredibly badly. This really was not my fault. She basically abandoned me and ran off, and treated me like ****. Therapists are saying the same thing. Therapist yesterday was very helpful, by telling me, "I've seen tons of these cases - the wife/leaving spouse always says that they tried to tell you, because they have to. But they did not. It's just something they have to say, because the feel guilty about the terrible things they did."

 

Basically, telling me that I cannot absorb and internalize the bull**** that she has said, and that I should not put this on myself.

 

I have restarted no contact since last week, and plan to continue it. It will be hard, because I have to go to her house to get a bunch of my stuff to move out in the next few days, but I intend to simply be as brief and uncommunicative as I can.

 

Because I read a lot of stuff over the last few days, and that, in connection with the therapy, made something "click." I do not know if it will last (again, I've had these feelings of understanding in the past, they don't always last, even though they feel like they will at the time).

 

What has clicked is that she really has treated me like ****, and in a way that I in no way deserve. That I should not desire or want to be in a relationship with someone like that (and right now, honestly, I do not). That I need to find myself, and my own way, and be happy. Honestly, I carried her for years. I worked, while she woke up at 10:00 in the morning and comfortably shuffled around the house, drinking tea, going out for coffee and lunch with friends, doing her little art projects for fun, etc. Meanwhile, she made a complete wreck of the house (and oh god, it is somehow even worse now), spent money like water, was late and unaccountable for everything, etc. I was happy enough to overlook those things because I loved her, but in looking back on it, she was taking advantage. She thinks that she was unhappy - I was the one who, objectively, should have been unhappy with the unbalanced roles in contributing to the marriage and relationship - she was nominally there for me emotionally, but that was it. And at the end of the day, even that part was a lie. Because if she was really there for me emotionally, she would have helped with those other areas that did bother me, that would have bothered any normal person in a relationship.

 

I have come to the realization that part of my inability to move on with her was caused by fear. Fear of what a future without her would be like. Fear that I will be alone. Fear that I do not have a lot of interests or passions that will allow me to be content alone, and that things will feel grey for a long time. I think that some of those fears come from putting pressure on myself. In an odd way, even the 180 contributes to these fears, because I feel like I always have to be doing something cool or new, or else I am somehow just being stagnant. Like I have to be a perpetual motion machine, always moving, always doing some cool new hobby, etc. I am trying to ease up on myself mentally with that, while still moving ahead.

 

I recognize (rationally) that such fear is not a reason to try to stick to a relationship (mentally, even if the other person is gone). I admit, I still have fear, but I will simply try to tackle it and keep on moving, as best as I can. I know that right now, at this very instant, I do not want her. She betrayed me, treated me terribly, and seems to have no understanding outside of her own selfishness of why that is fundamentally wrong and something that you just don't do. I do not need someone who is that far off in my life.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Frogger

[thummper]

Good riddance!!!! You should be looking forward to a much happier life!

[clevelander321]

I was thinking of starting my own thread, but your thread basically mirrors my situation..

 

My divorce is final soon, and we have been separated for a few months. Married 4 years and we have a 3 yr old..

 

Some similarities..

 

A. She was always horrible with money.. Wasted it.. Was a sign of selfishness to me.

 

B. I recently found out she was also skewing facts about past events to mutual friends long ago. It seems this was her way to get sympathy or attention.

 

C. She also claims she tried to talk to me.. She never did.. She had an affair, started to hate me, then left..

 

D. I also never received any closure.. She never admitted anything.. I had to find out in other ways, and to this day she never apologized... She even goes so far to tell me we were "separated" so she didn't cheat..

 

E. She also "reaches out" in subtle ways. Tells me to see a certain movie.. Tries to hug me when we exchange our son. Is usually crying etc.

 

Some days are better than others, and what makes it worse is that I have to see her often to exchange our son. Sometimes I am so mad not just for me, but for my son who can never live in a home and receive the love and stability of 2 parents at the same time. I am now in this phase of anger.

[Trimmer]

I was thinking of starting my own thread, but your thread basically mirrors my situation..

 

My divorce is final soon, and we have been separated for a few months. Married 4 years and we have a 3 yr old..

 

Some similarities..

 

A. She was always horrible with money.. Wasted it.. Was a sign of selfishness to me.

 

B. I recently found out she was also skewing facts about past events to mutual friends long ago. It seems this was her way to get sympathy or attention.

 

C. She also claims she tried to talk to me.. She never did.. She had an affair, started to hate me, then left..

 

D. I also never received any closure.. She never admitted anything.. I had to find out in other ways, and to this day she never apologized... She even goes so far to tell me we were "separated" so she didn't cheat..

 

E. She also "reaches out" in subtle ways. Tells me to see a certain movie.. Tries to hug me when we exchange our son. Is usually crying etc.

 

Some days are better than others, and what makes it worse is that I have to see her often to exchange our son. Sometimes I am so mad not just for me, but for my son who can never live in a home and receive the love and stability of 2 parents at the same time. I am now in this phase of anger.

It's probably actually a good idea to start your own thread - you'll get some direct comments and support there. Tacking onto the end of someone else's thread really limits the exposure you'll get (to only those people still paying attention to this thread.) Even though you feel like your situation is much the same as this thread, it's OK to ask for support in your own thread...

[Frogger]

Well, I can now add that I have had the fun experience of going to my (old) house to get a bunch of my things to move into a new place, finding my old backpack from college in the closet (where my clothes and some of hers are), reaching into the backpack to see what is in there, and pulling out one of those packages of lacy black lingerie where the bra connects to the panties connects to the garter connects to the stockings, etc. with little straps.

 

So she admits that she is now sleeping with the guy with whom she only had an "emotional connection" before the divorce. Still insists she did not sleep with him until after the divorce.

 

Ugh.

[jm2013]

Well, I can now add that I have had the fun experience of going to my (old) house to get a bunch of my things to move into a new place, finding my old backpack from college in the closet (where my clothes and some of hers are), reaching into the backpack to see what is in there, and pulling out one of those packages of lacy black lingerie where the bra connects to the panties connects to the garter connects to the stockings, etc. with little straps.

 

So she admits that she is now sleeping with the guy with whom she only had an "emotional connection" before the divorce. Still insists she did not sleep with him until after the divorce.

 

Ugh.

 

She's full of it. She just doesn't want her name smeared.

[Frogger]

She's full of it. She just doesn't want her name smeared.

 

Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm really back into self-blame mode. I'm stuck in this cycle again where I blame myself for not being interesting enough, active enough, etc. during the marriage. Again, I was a homebody, and I feel like she wanted to be out doing more, more alive, etc.

 

I was not being dishonest in my previous posts - she really did tell me that I was fine and she had no problem with me not being more active and being a homebody type. She really did go out of her way to reassure me, to tell me that I should stay home if I did not want to go somewhere, that I should enjoy my homebody hobbies. But I keep telling myself that I should have known better, and I should have not accepted what might have just been false reassurance from her that everything was okay.

 

It still just sucks.

 

I'm still trying to do what I'm "supposed" to be doing. Still seeing therapists, still getting out and trying to do some things in groups, still going to the gym, setting up my new place, seeing my kids, etc.

 

It still all feels like I'm firmly in the "fake it" part of "fake it till you make it," but I'm trying.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Frogger

[jm2013]

Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm really back into self-blame mode. I'm stuck in this cycle again where I blame myself for not being interesting enough, active enough, etc. during the marriage. Again, I was a homebody, and I feel like she wanted to be out doing more, more alive, etc.

 

I was not being dishonest in my previous posts - she really did tell me that I was fine and she had no problem with me not being more active and being a homebody type. She really did go out of her way to reassure me, to tell me that I should stay home if I did not want to go somewhere, that I should enjoy my homebody hobbies. But I keep telling myself that I should have known better, and I should have not accepted what might have just been false reassurance from her that everything was okay.

 

It still just sucks.

 

I'm still trying to do what I'm "supposed" to be doing. Still seeing therapists, still getting out and trying to do some things in groups, still going to the gym, setting up my new place, seeing my kids, etc.

 

It still all feels like I'm firmly in the "fake it" part of "fake it till you make it," but I'm trying.

 

 

Hey man, it's good to see you're trying. The gym, getting fit and the new activities will start to feel routine when you make them a part of your life. New habits will form taking your mind off the old things. Just keep working on yourself. When you look and feel happy that's when the coolest things happen. You start spreading your good mojo around and people start noticing.

[Frogger]

Hey man, it's good to see you're trying. The gym, getting fit and the new activities will start to feel routine when you make them a part of your life. New habits will form taking your mind off the old things. Just keep working on yourself. When you look and feel happy that's when the coolest things happen. You start spreading your good mojo around and people start noticing.

 

Thanks.

 

The best part about the self-blame thing is that she still denies that my being a homebody or not doing enough things with her had anything to do with it. So I'm putting that on myself, just based on what was probably some depression, and realizing that I just am not as high energy as most other people. That being said, I could obviously switch things around and say I was the one who actually worked, I was the one who did not destroy the house with clutter and filth, etc. But my mind does not seem to work that way - I absorb and assume it was my fault, and that telling myself it wasn't my fault is just a way to protect my own ego.

 

Basically, yes, this whole thing plus divorce has really messed me up.

 

But again, going back to the positive points, I'm trying to get out there. In fact, I'm going to a book club meeting tonight. I even worked so hard over the weekend and in the gym on Monday, that I hurt my back doing a squat lift at the gym. (As a hint, don't spend the entire weekend moving heavy boxes as part of a volunteer activity, and then moving furniture at your new place, and then sleeping on a new firm bed, and then try to lift weights the following day.) Fortunately, I think it is just muscular, not a bad disc or anything, and that a couple of days rest followed by a light workout should get me back to normal and back on the workout track.

[10thengineerharrison]

Hey Frogger:

 

I think it's pretty clear what the limited relationship contact you've had from her meant:

 

1: She needed to keep you believing she wasn't in a PA before the divorce. She probably was, though. I'd bet large sums of other peoples' cash she was.

2: She wanted to keep you around as a distant backup plan. Really distant...

 

Once she'd accomplished these two tasks and the divorce was final, she could resume the PA as a "legit" relationship because she has you believing she waited until the divorce was final before shagging the OM. Whether she had an affair or not while you were married doesn't matter much anymore now that you're not.

 

What does matter is that you're still strung out over her. I don't think this is healthy. Life will never be about another person making you whole by being with you and meeting your needs (and *requiring* you to meet theirs). Life is about being a happy, healthy individual and raising your kids to be like adults when they grow up.

 

Maybe explore the difference between "loneliness" and "solitude". It's a big one, especially after a marriage has ended. You might find yourself cherishing your solitude when you have it, rather than wasting it on wondering what went wrong with the marriage which, since it's over, doesn't much matter.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison

[Frogger]

Hey Frogger:

 

I think it's pretty clear what the limited relationship contact you've had from her meant:

 

1: She needed to keep you believing she wasn't in a PA before the divorce. She probably was, though. I'd bet large sums of other peoples' cash she was.

2: She wanted to keep you around as a distant backup plan. Really distant...

 

Once she'd accomplished these two tasks and the divorce was final, she could resume the PA as a "legit" relationship because she has you believing she waited until the divorce was final before shagging the OM. Whether she had an affair or not while you were married doesn't matter much anymore now that you're not.

 

I think this is probably correct as well. My therapist said that I apparently have this very strong ability to separate intellect and emotion. He actually seems somewhat baffled by it. In this context, it means (as I posted earlier in the thread) that I have always intellectually known that all of the signs pointed to a very likely physical affair before the divorce. I did not want to believe that emotionally, but I do not have the type of brain that usually turns off to reality in order to meet my emotions.

 

So as I've said before, I knew in my head that she probably had a physical affair. I just did not want to feel it in my heart or gut.

 

What does matter is that you're still strung out over her. I don't think this is healthy. Life will never be about another person making you whole by being with you and meeting your needs (and *requiring* you to meet theirs). Life is about being a happy, healthy individual and raising your kids to be like adults when they grow up.

 

Maybe explore the difference between "loneliness" and "solitude". It's a big one, especially after a marriage has ended. You might find yourself cherishing your solitude when you have it, rather than wasting it on wondering what went wrong with the marriage which, since it's over, doesn't much matter.

 

Thanks. This is exactly what I am trying to do. It is quite difficult, however. I admit (again, things I know intellectually) to being a needy, insecure person. As mentioned earlier, I also admit to being way more stressed out and insecure about my job than I think most people are. Essentially, I have depression and anxiety. Not so debilitating that it keeps me from getting out of bed, showering, going into work, etc., but that's because I make myself do those things intellectually (again). It is hard continuing through this with the one person I thought was there to help me having betrayed me and gone.

 

I'm doing what I can.