Does Christianity Allow Infidelity To Be Rugswept

[jm2013]

I'm a Christian and my wife and I have both been seeing a faith based counselor. Every time we go see him it feels like things are trying to be swept under the rug. My brother is a Christian as well and tells me pretty much the same thing. Don't look at the past but look at now. "Your wife's sins died when she was born again". I'm a betrayed spouse but I can't get this concept. I'm still shattered with the pain her affair has caused and cannot seem to just rug sweep it and continue on like it never even happened. Perhaps it is different when being advised from others who have never experienced that kind of betrayal from their spouse? I'd like to get some input on this.

[d0nnivain]

It's not about sweeping it under the rug but embracing forgiveness. Atonement & contrition should be part of any reconciliation.

[jm2013]

It's not about sweeping it under the rug but embracing forgiveness. Atonement & contrition should be part of any reconciliation.

 

I see that point in extending true forgiveness to a pure heart that seeks this. The problem at least for me is having a deep pit in my stomach knowing there is more while being asked to give this forgiveness. Would that be true forgiveness to extend forgiveness for what you only know?

[M30USA]

2 questions:

 

1) Whose opinion do you seek? The Christian culture's opinion or the words of Jesus, himself.

 

2) Are we talking about forgiveness with genuine repentance or just brushing stuff under the rug while said behavior continuess as he/she says, "God loves us!"

Edited November 19, 2014 by M30USA

[jm2013]

2 questions:

 

1) Whose opinion do you seek? The Christian culture's opinion or the words of Jesus, himself.

 

2) Are we talking about forgiveness with genuine repentance or just brushing stuff under the rug while said behavior continuess as he/she says, "God loves us!"

 

Well, I'd like to get both sides. I'll take Christian culture opinion as well as a biblical from Christ. Let's say the past behavior is currently being exhibited. Perhaps there are unsaid things still lingering in the memory bank of the unfaithful spouse who doesn't want to expel due to a hindrance of reconciliation.

[ComingInHot]

The Christian Faith doesn't allow for 'rugsweeping' but people sure do... The counselor needs a maybe a different approach with you if this is how you feel he is coming across.

You are allowed to feel whatever it is that you are feeling. It is your actions the define you. Are you angry? Be Angry but don'g be spiteful and mean. Are you shattered? Then cry out in pain and agony but don't break her again with you - she is broken enough.

I hope this makes sense. I also hope that you feel little bouts of peace in between this pain and heartbreak. Then I hope that peace overtakes you once again. I am so sorry this happened to you.

CiH*

[M30USA]

Well, I'd like to get both sides. I'll take Christian culture opinion as well as a biblical from Christ. Let's say the past behavior is currently being exhibited. Perhaps there are unsaid things still lingering in the memory bank of the unfaithful spouse who doesn't want to expel due to a hindrance of reconciliation.

 

Contrary to what 90% or more of what Christian pastors teach, Christ will not forgive or let into heaven those who refuse to repent and obey the voice of the Holy Spirit. There are consequences to remaining stuck in sinful behavior. The Holy Spirit gives us the awareness and the strength to overcome this. If we ignore it and continue in sin, what do we expect? Jesus even said that fornicators, adulterors, drunks, etc, will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. People who REPENT from these things WILL. Even a repentant mass murderer will be received by God before a middle-of-the-road fake Christian who claims to be righteous but remains in his "little" sins that get brushed under the rug. It's ALL about the heart. Until you have actual, proveable evidence (over an extended period of time) that a person has changed, you MUST assume they haven't.

Edited November 19, 2014 by M30USA

[amaysngrace]

It's hard to be in the position that you're in because you see her every day. I've forgiven people without them ever saying sorry but I also distanced myself from them.

 

If someone expresses remorse and I forgive them then I have no problem being around that person.

 

Your situation sucks because you don't think she is sincerely apologetic and would rather just sweep it under the rug. That leaves everything up to you to sort through it all. That just doesn't seem right.

 

If you ask me, your Christian brother is banging your wife.

[jm2013]

The Christian Faith doesn't allow for 'rugsweeping' but people sure do... The counselor needs a maybe a different approach with you if this is how you feel he is coming across.

You are allowed to feel whatever it is that you are feeling. It is your actions the define you. Are you angry? Be Angry but don'g be spiteful and mean. Are you shattered? Then cry out in pain and agony but don't break her again with you - she is broken enough.

I hope this makes sense. I also hope that you feel little bouts of peace in between this pain and heartbreak. Then I hope that peace overtakes you once again. I am so sorry this happened to you.

CiH*

 

Thanks. I see where you're coming from. I do have some peace. I think it all just gets wearing thinking about it all.

 

Contrary to what 90% or more of what Christian pastors teach, Christ will not forgive or let into heaven those who refuse to repent and obey the voice of the Holy Spirit. There are consequences to remaining stuck in sinful behavior. The Holy Spirit gives us the awareness and the strength to overcome this. If we ignore it and continue in sin, what do we expect? Jesus even said that fornicators, adulterors, drunks, etc, will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. People who REPENT from these things WILL. Even a repentant mass murderer will be received by God before a middle-of-the-road fake Christian who claims to be righteous but remains in his "little" sins that get brushed under the rug. It's ALL about the heart. Until you have actual, proveable evidence (over an extended period of time) that a person has changed, you MUST assume they haven't.

 

While I do think my wife has changed it doesn't change what she did. If I had access to audio and visual of her affair I think I would vomit all over the place. With that being said, I hope she didn't use Christianity to try and minimize her damage. Sometimes I feel like she's trying to use our new found faith to manipulate the situation into her favor if you will. Sometimes I wonder if the damage is too deep to recover from and we are both better off trying to move on with new people and experiences while learning from this one.

 

It's hard to be in the position that you're in because you see her every day. I've forgiven people without them ever saying sorry but I also distanced myself from them.

 

If someone expresses remorse and I forgive them then I have no problem being around that person.

 

Your situation sucks because you don't think she is sincerely apologetic and would rather just sweep it under the rug. That leaves everything up to you to sort through it all. That just doesn't seem right.

 

If you ask me, your Christian brother is banging your wife.

 

I think she is apologetic to some degree. Of course I can't tell you to what she feels apologetic toward in sincerity. These "new" found feelings were only exhibited after I discovered her affair. I wonder where my life would be at right now if I was still behind those blinders trudging through a one sided open marriage wondering what it was I was doing wrong that made my wife so distant during that time.

 

Thank you everybody for the input.

[M30USA]

JM, the sad truth is most Christians use their so-called religion as a way of calming their guilt but not actually obeying Jesus. They want all the benefits of forgiveness and heaven, but without righteousness and holiness. These are the people to whom Jesus will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you."

[tobrieornottobrie]

I'm sorry that you're hurting. How long have you been in counseling? Have you considered maybe trying to find another faith-based counselor? With the circumstances being what they are, it's important for you to find a counselor who is not afraid of delving into the issues that you and your wife are dealing with in your marriage. Open and honest communication is vital at this point. I hope that it gets better for you, friend. Blessings!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the brie's cheese knees

Edited November 19, 2014 by tobrieornottobrie

[Tayla]

Most often the counselor is using the "here and now" approach. Keeping both persons in the safe zone to discuss the past while maintaining the adult realization of time and perspective.

 

My Ex was a professional shrink, and it was key to healing to keep the people in the awareness of their adult self. With the ability to reflect using the current adult skills. Cognizant awareness without the overwhelming emotional past still nipping at them.

 

Sometimes as "the couple" its hard to get a clear idea of what the counselor is aiming at, yet if most are skilled ....they will get you to the point of reviewing the circumstances that brought you there with less emotion and more foresight in resolution. Basically you cannot solve the problem if you live in the problem.

 

Have you mentioned to the counselor that you are willing to follow so long as he/she is willing to stop the rugsweeping and set clear goals?

[skydiveaddict]

I. My brother is a Christian as well and tells me pretty much the same thing. Don't look at the past but look at now. "Your wife's sins died when she was born again".

 

If she is catholic she better get her ass to confession.

 

I'm a betrayed spouse but I can't get this concept. I'm still shattered with the pain her affair has caused and cannot seem to just rug sweep it and continue on like it never even happened.

 

Of course you can't. That's natural law. When she commits grave sin against you she can't just say "Well I'm born again now, so it doesn't count."

 

This a common evengelical christian doctrine.

 

It's called "Once saved always saved." Basically once you are "saved" you can do whatever you like. After all, all your sins are already forgiven.

 

She better grasp the grim fact that at her death she will have to give the Lord a full accounting of her life.

 

& He damn sure ain't gonna say "well, since you were "born again" you are not responsible for any reckless hurtful or sinful acts of betrayal.

 

You and me won't buy that & neither will God.

Edited November 21, 2014 by skydiveaddict

[M30USA]

It's called "Once saved always saved." Basically once you are "saved" you can do whatever you like. After all, all your sins are already forgiven.

 

The problem is really a question of whether such people were ever truly saved to begin with. Christ, himself, said that he will not lose even a single one of his own sheep. This suggests that you cannot lose salvation.

 

However, if a person APPEARS to have been saved and subsequently abandons their faith, Paul would say:

 

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

[Allumere]

First off I am very sorry you are going through this...the pure suck factor of dealing with infidelity IMHO can't even be measured..

 

How long have you and your wife been Christians is my question as it sounded like that occurred after the infidelity but maybe I just misinterpreted.

 

I would HIGHLY recommend individual counseling and also make sure your faith counselor is truly a qualified professional and not just a dedicated church community volunteer....not to knock that in any way however someone who has been professionally train may be better equipped to help you work through some of the sticking points beyond leveraging doctrine.

 

I am of the opinion that divorce on the grounds of sexual immorality was noted in the Bible for a reason.....and that there should be no heaviness of heart or guilt if you can't work through this. It isn't about looking for an easy out and from your-side of things I don't think you are looking for it.

[pureinheart]

I see that point in extending true forgiveness to a pure heart that seeks this. The problem at least for me is having a deep pit in my stomach knowing there is more while being asked to give this forgiveness. Would that be true forgiveness to extend forgiveness for what you only know?

 

First, I am so sorry for your pain...the enemy gets in there and just reeks havoc on the families with so many temptations.

 

This may be way off base not to mention off topic, although I'd like to ask this question: Can you forgive her?

 

Having an affair is a big deal. I've been on all sides of the fence as affairs are VERY common were I live and worked, I grew up around it... This is what I found with me.

 

I tried to 'forgive' (in my own strength) my ex's affairs and thought I had, but subconsciously I had major hatred for what they did and I knew they weren't done, I knew they would do it again. I hid these facts from myself (weird huh) because reality was too harsh, so I pretended all was well. It wasn't. Again subconsciously I began to plan a exit affair, I was just waiting for the right person and feelings to carry this out.

 

Also I want to point out that I have witnessed many BS's (betrayed spouses) hold the affair over their partners as leverage, so I would ask you to search your heart to see if this is possible. I don't say this to offend, I say it because we are all human BTDT..

 

If you feel she is not repentant, accept that and do what God tells you to do...which would be divorce or have a happy marriage without her...it is possible.

 

May I ask how long it's been since the affair?

[skydiveaddict]

However, if a person APPEARS to have been saved and subsequently abandons their faith,

 

And who is the arbiter of that? You? Me?

 

So if you're truly "born again" it would be impossible to commit a sin right?

[Arieswoman]

jm2013,

Does Christianity Allow Infidelity To Be Rugswept

 

No.

 

I am sorry you are in this predicament and hurting.

 

I am wondering where your counsellor is coming from on this one. I also wonder what qualifications they have?

 

Our Lord told the women caught in adultery to "go and sin no more".

 

St Paul also said that the only reason you can divorce a spouse is for adultery.

 

If forgiveness is to take place then the whole affair should be completely transparent, and true remorse demonstrated. It sounds to me as this isn't happening.

[M30USA]

And who is the arbiter of that? You? Me?

 

So if you're truly "born again" it would be impossible to commit a sin right?

 

There is a difference between individual sins and a lifestyle of sin. The former is just a single point (or few points) on a graph. The latter is a best fit line graph--or the pattern of the overall points.

 

And Paul says that we are certainly capable of using "right judgement" to discern this, ourselves, provided we are not guilty of the same sin. If we are guilty of the same sin, we must take the "plank" out of our own eye and THEN take the speck of dust out of our neighbor's eye. But notice how he DID say to take it out of our neighbor's eye and didnt stop the sentence after saying to remove the plank in our own eye.

 

It's not hard to find evidence of true conversion. People overcomplicate the issue. This is because we are trying to discern people sometimes who haven't truly repented.

[angel.eyes]

I'm sorry you find yourself in this difficult and painful position. My heart and prayers go out for you.

 

First, forgiveness doesn't equal rug sweeping. Jesus quite clearly demonstrates that. When He confronted money changers and merchants in the temple, he didn't just blithely forgive them and walk off. He became angry and he dealt directly with their sinful behavior by overturning their tables and rebuking them for defiling God's house of worship (Matthew 21:12 NKJV). Jesus forgave and welcomed repentant sinners of all flavors into his circle. But they were genuinely repentant and had forsaken their former lifestyles. When he saved the adulterous woman from being stoned, his command to her was to go and sin no more (John 8:3-11NKJV).

 

Has your wife's cheating been addressed directly? Has the affair stopped? Has all contact with the affair partner ceased? Has she acknowledged how hurtful and damaging her behavior has been to you and your marriage? Is she genuinely remorseful? Has she sought your forgiveness? Is she genuinely re-investing in your marriage? To me, those would be the first steps needed in any reconciliation.

 

Second, in any field, you will find practitioners of varying skill and talent. If you're dissatisfied with your current counselor and feel he or she is encouraging rug sweeping rather than the hard work needed to get to genuine reconciliation, look for another. Find a counselor who shares your faith that is acceptable to both you and your wife. It may take several tries.

 

Third, and I hesitate to say this, adultery is an acceptable reason to divorce (Matthew 5:32 NKJV, Matthew 19:3-9 NKJV). Some marriages become stronger following a painful crisis such as infidelity, but it requires TWO partners who are genuinely committed to having a strong, healthy relationship moving forward. If you know any happily married Christian couples who've been together a long time, perhaps ask them for advice too. I know a few with 50+ year marriages, and EVERY couple married a long time has faced significant challenges of one type or another at some point in their marriage.

 

On the flip side, understand as well that many married couples don't survive infidelity. That was a risk your wife took when she chose to cheat. Don't beat yourself up if, at the end of the day, you can't live with the pain of her betrayal.

 

Finally and most importantly, pray for God's guidance as you deal with this. He'll give you the strength and wisdom you need to get through this, whatever the ultimate outcome.

[angel.eyes]

Also whatever your ultimate decision, consider reading Lewis Smede's book, Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve.

[taiko]

I'm a Christian and my wife and I have both been seeing a faith based counselor. Every time we go see him it feels like things are trying to be swept under the rug. My brother is a Christian as well and tells me pretty much the same thing. Don't look at the past but look at now. "Your wife's sins died when she was born again". I'm a betrayed spouse but I can't get this concept. I'm still shattered with the pain her affair has caused and cannot seem to just rug sweep it and continue on like it never even happened. Perhaps it is different when being advised from others who have never experienced that kind of betrayal from their spouse? I'd like to get some input on this.

 

I understand that you are not yet willing to forgive.

You're a born again Christian but you believe that she can't be born again in God's eyes? That she may have eternal salvation even if she no longer has a loving husband.

[skydiveaddict]

There is a difference between individual sins and a lifestyle of sin. The former is just a single point (or few points) on a graph. The latter is a best fit line graph--or the pattern of the overall points.

 

& who told you that? Jesus? Your pastor? Divine intervention?

 

Did God show up in your dreams w/a graph chart?

 

And Paul says that we are certainly capable of using "right judgement" to discern this, ourselves, provided we are not guilty of the same sin.

 

& if we are, are we then not truly "saved?"

 

 

It's not hard to find evidence of true conversion. People overcomplicate the issue. This is because we are trying to discern people sometimes who haven't truly repented.

 

How could you possibly know who has truly repented?

How can you be certain that your discernment is correct?

[M30USA]

Skydive, it's clear that you doubt my commentary on the Bible as well as my opinions. Therefore go read the Bible yourself, pray for wisdom, then come back and tell me what you have learned. Cheers.

Edited November 24, 2014 by M30USA

[skydiveaddict]

Skydive, it's clear that you doubt my commentary on the Bible as well as my opinions. Therefore go read the Bible yourself, pray for wisdom, then come back and tell me what you have learned. Cheers.

 

Yea. I figured I'd get a "born again" answer like that.

 

John 20:23:

"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

 

That doesn't apply to you or me.

 

That power was given only to the apostles. Holy Orders. Passed down from St. Peter to Pope Francis.

 

That means a catholic or orthodox priest.

Edited November 24, 2014 by skydiveaddict