William Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Let's move it back to rugsweeping infidelity being allowed by Christianity, shall we? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Author jm2013 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Wow. I forgot I opened this thread. Sorry I'm late to the game and thanks for all of the responses. I'll try and answer some of the questions here. I do not think my wife is in contact with her affair partner though I know now never to trust that 100%. If I caught her in another affair I don't think I'd be as surprised or taken back by it. The past year taught me a lot let's put it that way. I used to think I was in some protective bubble and my wife would never do such a thing. I remember listening to the very words coming out of her mouth confirming this and comforting me to a point where I gave up my investigation and questions. There was a point where I almost took her words at face value and was about to leave it at that. I knew though deep down inside my gut there was something terribly wrong. I kept going and eventually uncovered her affair. Here's what I know. My wife cheated on me. I know this definitively. I guess at that point it doesn't matter if it was once, twice or one thousand times. What matters to me know is the truthfulness of her responses to my questions. Is she being honest? I have no clue. This is the environment that was created due to her actions. I think she has sealed up things and will die with them. She dug into how much information I have and probably felt comfortably leaking small things out here and there in the beginning testing how much I "knew". I had brought up the rug sweeping because that is what I felt like was "trying" to be done. The counselor wants the marriage moving forward. I'm stuck in the back trying to still pick up all of these pieces one year later and make sense of this person I married several years ago. When I found all this out I kept asking myself. Who is she? I started to kind of distance myself from my dependability on her. She is a Christian as well. I'm not sure if many WS's hop into religion as a PR thing at first so I'm not sure what her initial intentions were clearly. My mom is a very religious woman and after my wife's affair her and my mom became rather close. I think most of this was done intentionally to have my families voice in my ear that she has "changed" and I'd be stupid to leave. Last summer my wife asked me to forgive her. She said she had already forgiven herself for what she has done. I don't know why but this to me came off extremely uncaring. If I did this and put my family in turmoil I don't think I could forgive myself for what I had done until there was rest and I had been forgiven by the people I offended. I guess that's beside the point. The counselor we are seeing is faith based yes. He's really nice but counsels in a different way of course. Using the bible and what God has taught we try and move forward from there. We don't really speak about the problems that led up to the events. Perhaps that do that with IC? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
me85 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 It does most certainly not. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'm a Christian and my wife and I have both been seeing a faith based counselor. Every time we go see him it feels like things are trying to be swept under the rug. My brother is a Christian as well and tells me pretty much the same thing. Don't look at the past but look at now. "Your wife's sins died when she was born again". I'm a betrayed spouse but I can't get this concept. I'm still shattered with the pain her affair has caused and cannot seem to just rug sweep it and continue on like it never even happened. Perhaps it is different when being advised from others who have never experienced that kind of betrayal from their spouse? I'd like to get some input on this. Last summer my wife asked me to forgive her. She said she had already forgiven herself for what she has done. I don't know why but this to me came off extremely uncaring. If I did this and put my family in turmoil I don't think I could forgive myself for what I had done until there was rest and I had been forgiven by the people I offended. I guess that's beside the point. The counselor we are seeing is faith based yes. He's really nice but counsels in a different way of course. Using the bible and what God has taught we try and move forward from there. We don't really speak about the problems that led up to the events. Perhaps that do that with IC? I would be annoyed if someone asked me to forgive because "I've already forgiven myself". I don't like that underhanded pressure she put out there by saying, "well, if I can do it, you should too" kind of thing. Forgiveness is a major part of a Christian's walk. I would delve a bit into the topic and do some bible-based research on your own. But basically, you can forgive your wife, but not necessarily continue on in the same relationship as if everything were A-OK. Personally, I think you could find a better faith-based counselor. Is this person a licensed counselor, or just someone who has taken the role within the church? Of course the events that led up to the infidelity are important if you want to proceed in a healthy marriage! Lastly, I don't think a time of separation would be an awful thing. You might really get some clarity if you could spend some time away from the situation for awhile. Best of luck, OP. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jm2013 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thanks for the input everybody. This counselor is faith based and licensed. I have definitely started to look at the bigger picture as time passes. I used to think forgiveness given to my wife would mean that I must reconcile our marriage together. I guess it is kind of like a victim forgiving their attacker. They could forgive their crime but that doesn't mean they have to be friends and hang out every day. This whole situation is unfortunate. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 One thing that God's Word contains that people do not always see is balance. Does Christ forgive completely and cleanse us from all unrighteousness? Yes! BUT, real repentance is a TURNING from sin and "bearing fruit in keeping with repentance." In other words, someone who is truly repentant will turn from that sin and change, and they will be willing to own their choices completely and make amends as best they can. They will be broken and humble. When this happens, then yes, they are forgiven and made clean by the ONLY One who has ever been without sin. When that happens, I recommend reading this passage: Matthew 18:21-35 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) One thing that God's Word contains that people do not always see is balance. Does Christ forgive completely and cleanse us from all unrighteousness? Yes! BUT, real repentance is a TURNING from sin and "bearing fruit in keeping with repentance." In other words, someone who is truly repentant will turn from that sin and change, and they will be willing to own their choices completely and make amends as best they can. They will be broken and humble. When this happens, then yes, they are forgiven and made clean by the ONLY One who has ever been without sin. When that happens, I recommend reading this passage: Matthew 18:21-35 YEPPERS. But the deplorable part is that people hear in church, of all places, that they are just wonderful the way they are--and that god loves them just the way they are. Excuse me, but where is that found in Scripture? Furthermore, this teaching is what actually KEEPS people from repenting. Why repent when you're already wonderful? Just look at the Pharisees. They thought they were so special, and so righteous. Jesus exposed their wickedness and, as a result, they didnt repent but mocked and rejected him. Edited December 9, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 IMO, FULL confession is a necessary prerequisite to contrition, repentance, and only then can you give informed forgiveness and truthful reconciliation. Anything less is a perpetuation of the lies. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) IMO, FULL confession is a necessary prerequisite to contrition, repentance, and only then can you give informed forgiveness and truthful reconciliation. Anything less is a perpetuation of the lies. Confession to God, alone. Confession to another human being merely helps a person "feel" better and, if it's a friend as opposed to an anonymous priest, it can help with accountability; but this doesn't play any role in actual atonement from God's perspective. Edited December 9, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
spanz1 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think the stats are that highly religious people, especially the evangelicals, have the highest rates of cheating! Someone posted a map recently showing the bible belt as the highest cheating location in the USA. I have no way of confirming that, but if true, I would say those people use their religion as a crutch, or maybe magical shield: i.e. they are good people and will go to heaven and god will forgive them, so its morally ok to cheat on their spouse. God should smack them upside their heads for perverting religion that way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I think the stats are that highly religious people, especially the evangelicals, have the highest rates of cheating! Someone posted a map recently showing the bible belt as the highest cheating location in the USA. I have no way of confirming that, but if true, I would say those people use their religion as a crutch, or maybe magical shield: i.e. they are good people and will go to heaven and god will forgive them, so its morally ok to cheat on their spouse. God should smack them upside their heads for perverting religion that way. This message should be heard by every church in America. What you are referring to is called "grieving the Holy Spirit", where one knowingly sins and thinks its fine because they "have Jesus". Someone who really has Jesus will fear God and not want to displease him by continued sin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) If that counselor hasn't helped you uncover truth before suggesting anything further - then he/she isn't doing proper order. Kind of like asking you to eat a meal at the restaurant without ordering the food yet. How can you be expected to forgive when you don't yet have her truth. You can't - and I would tell them that point blank. A form of being dishonest is with holding truth and that's what she has been doing. So she isn't working at repairing the damage she caused and she isn't worthy of trusting yet. So you really have nothing to work with! When she gives you truth - then you can see how you feel about what really has happened - until then - you have nothing. Edited December 11, 2014 by beach 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The only time forgiveness comes before repentance is in the dictionary Link to post Share on other sites
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