"Dating in your league"

[guest569]

If leagues didnt exist, broke 80 year old men would be dating 20 year old bombshells.

 

Standards and attraction still come into play with or without leagues.. I dont want to date an old man who is about to keel over. That's not because of "leagues"

[hotpotato]

Standards and attraction still come into play with or without leagues.. I dont want to date an old man who is about to keel over. That's not because of "leagues"

 

Arent leagues about attraction and differing levels of attractiveness?

 

Old men can increase their league by becoming rich.

[La Trese]

I have had a guy I really liked and probably would have dated not go for me because he thought I was out of his league. I was so confused...if I was willing to go for him clearly I didn't think I was out of his league lol.

 

Heres the thing about leagues...it exists to some extent. If I am a smart successful attractive girl....a guy who is not smart, not successful and not attractive is not going to work. You have to have something to compensate or balance out, but it doesn't necessarily depend on looks. If you are below average looking, but you are a charmer...that more than makes up for it. If you are passionate, driven....thats enough to put you in a girl's "league". If you have a connection with the girl, chances are you are in her league despite how much better looking she seems.

 

In the case of the guy I was talking about...he was nice, okay looking, and driven just like me and I felt a connection. That was more than enough for me to be attracted to him.

[guest569]

We don't always have an accurate view of ourselves and can be too modest or too arrogant, and similarly when judging others by thinking we are inferior or superior.. all it is.. leagues are about how people perceive themselves against others. I don't think these people are doing themselves any favours by ruling out groups of people based on their looks, career or popularity.

[E-Squared]

Well, the league thing has to exist otherwise people wouldn't talk about it. One thing that I have been told by a female friend is that she has known a guy who was about three or four bills and dated a girl who model-like attractive.

 

Personally, I don't know about this. Most of the women who I seek out aren't exactly nines of 10s. They are pretty, yes, but they aren't gorgeous or the type who would grace the cover of a magazine. I should add that I don't have a problem with a woman with some extra meat on their bones. In fact, I kind of find extra weight to be somewhat appealing. I am not saying this because I am overweight myself, but more like in the 220-230s range. Not to mention that I exercise and lift weights. So I am active. Plus, I am not ugly at all.

 

However, if I were to land a woman who can look great in a bikini and/or short shorts and sports bra in a gym, I would definitely not pass up the chance at that. Who knows if I could hit it off with someone like her? I have even heard of fit guys liking chubby women as well, believe it or not.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I think people over think all of this stuff way too much!!

 

I either like someone or I don't. It's either mutual or it isn't. End of story.

 

The reason guys think about it is because women keep turning them down.

 

Most guys don't generally think about it when they are younger. They just go for the women they like.

 

If you keep getting turned down, then you start to look at women where you might have a best chance.

Edited December 14, 2014 by JuneJulySeptember

[neowulf]

The reason guys think about it is because women keep turning them down.

 

Most guys don't generally think about it when they are younger. They just go for the women they like.

 

If you keep getting turned down, then you start to look at women where you might have a best chance.

 

Sadly, I have to agree.

 

It's a protective measure. Men aren't made of stone. There's only so many times they can be blown off or looked down on before it begins to eat at their self worth.

 

Eventually they start going for "what they think they can get".

 

Personally I look at 9-10's the same way I do a ferrari. Beautiful, but completely unobtainable.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Why do people create these illusionary dating hierarchies?

 

 

Because they're not illusionary.

 

 

You need do no more than stand around a popular tourist attraction for a summer to see that couples happen almost exclusively comprised of individuals from the same league.

 

Women can try to cover their true selves, with make-up and the like, but such people tend only to aggravate their own lives by being anybody but who they really are.

 

 

The day that interleague coupledom happens steadily is the day that the magazine covers are all filled with schmoes other than those non-fictional characters photographed there as themselves.

 

Indeed there is some small amount of wiggle room which allows for the eye of the beholder, and all, but aside from that, people are overwhelmingly dating within their league.

[No Limit]

"League thinking" is still better than those many opportunists out there who think they have to "rise in leagues" as often as they can. I remember a girl posting her grief somewhere that her BF of 5 years, who she supported in his studies to become a lawyer and even helped to get his job eventually. Well, love-of-her-life-boyfriend suddenly became more and more distant and even rude to her for no apparent reason - until she one day wanted to surprise him and picking him off from work: that bastard had been with the daughter of his boss the past few months.

 

The poster of that story sadly didn't expose him when she saw them together kissing and holding hands. Would have costed him his job for sure.

[M30USA]

Couples pair up consistently who match up in the following characteristics:

 

1. Physical attractiveness (i.e. looks).

2. IQ

3. Socioeconomic status.

 

Consistently. Very robust evidence to support it (Google "matching phenomenon").

 

Leagues exist.

 

I disagree. Broken down by gender, here is the list as I see it:

 

What WOMEN look for (past age 30):

1) Socioeconomic status

2) Humor

3) Looks

 

Note that intelligence doesn't even make the list. Most women mistake success for intelligence, so it doesn't matter. Also, if you're talking about women younger than 30, reverse #1 and #3 above.

 

What MEN look for (regardless of age):

1) Looks

2) Not crazy

 

That's about it for what men look for.

[sillyanswer]

What MEN look for (regardless of age):

1) Looks

2) Not crazy

 

That's about it for what men look for.

 

Umm. Nope.

[M30USA]

Umm. Nope.

 

The assumption of speaking in generalities is that there are exceptions.

[sillyanswer]

The assumption of speaking in generalities is that there are exceptions.

 

Is it even a good generalisation? Especially the "regardless of age" part.

[carhill]

As far as who to approach amongst otherwise unknown individuals, IME he's not far off. If she appears attractive physically and doesn't exhibit obvious behaviors indicating mental disease or defect, that's an approach a typical man will likely take. Some men will ignore the disease or defect if the looks are sufficiently compelling.

 

That's a different criteria from whom a man would consider committing to or marry. IMO, the poster is simply talking about who a man approaches to ask on a date. If she says yes and they go on a date, or two, and she still appears attractive looking to him and isn't going off the reservation regarding mental/emotional stability, he'll keep showing up until either she says no or he sees a red flag in an area of interaction and says no himself. Marriages have started that way. Guys are pretty simple in some ways, though complex in others.

 

I had to chuckle remembering my pre-election run-in with a seemingly friendly lady my age who otherwise met this criteria at a venue away from political stuff. She was simply stopping in to see a female friend of hers and our glad-handing was simply polite interaction. Why? Well, she's married to a federal circuit court judge and turned out to be running for local judge herself.

When I speak of leagues, that's what I'm talking about. There are leagues of people one glad-hands to get votes, there are leagues of people one socializes with and there are leagues of people one dates and marries.

[M30USA]

Is it even a good generalisation? Especially the "regardless of age" part.

 

Yep, you're right. I don't know where I got the idea that men go for women based on looks. It's just one of those ideas that came from nowhere. What was I thinking for making such a fringe comment?

[Imported]

The assumption of speaking in generalities is that there are exceptions.

 

Maybe you and some of the other dudes on this board is the exception.

[sillyanswer]

Yep, you're right. I don't know where I got the idea that men go for women based on looks. It's just one of those ideas that came from nowhere. What was I thinking for making such a fringe comment?

 

I detect sarcasm. You were suggesting that looks and "not crazy" are enough. I'm saying that I think you're wrong, in particular with your claim that this applies to men of all ages. Men can be picky, too. I'm one of them, and I suspect this is partly age-related in my case having learned over time what other things to seek in a partner.

[ltjg45]

I detect sarcasm. You were suggesting that looks and "not crazy" are enough. I'm saying that I think you're wrong, in particular with your claim that this applies to men of all ages. Men can be picky, too. I'm one of them, and I suspect this is partly age-related in my case having learned over time what other things to seek in a partner.

 

His list is accurate though.

 

Those 2 things would be enough for most guys to date a woman. Key word here is "most". You and I is just a few of the outsiders.

 

However, when it comes to marriage, it takes a lot more than that. I doubt anyone here will question that, outside of the truly desperate.

 

But a woman can't look forward to marriage if she can't get any dates to begin with, which leads to those very 2 points.

 

In my case, it takes more than that for me to date a woman. I also want a woman that has no tattoos (or at the most, 1) since I can't stand them. I also don't want her to smoke or bring drama to my life, which goes back to the "not crazy" part of that list. With that, my dating pool is basically non-existant which I can fine with that because I refuse to accept otherwise.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ltjg45

[D.Mc.]

Hi EndlessAbyss,

 

More importantly: what are you saying to these people telling you about leagues (aside from cringing). Do you immediately break down their own RS w/their women (if they are men telling you this)? Imagine the look on their face if you say "but...it worked for you, your gf/wife/SO is a human & you're a toad" or even worse asking them how they are holding up since they lowered their own bar...LOL!

 

Better yet: ask them to fix you up or introduce you to someone to date...they'll stop commenting negatively on your love life when it produces a request for actual assistance instead of just talk.

[genuinelyloverly7]

I've recently been reminded of league's (or we could call them preference zones), and how it really is based on looks (AS WELL AS COMMONALITIES) for the first few dates, if you are looking for a sexual relationship at any point thereafter. Yes, money and intelligence and all, but that is almost like a different set of preference zone's. I/we should do a preference zone zen diagram to show the different types of PZ's there are out there, and which matters most to different people. There is financial, physical, mental, social, emotional (and more?).

 

So everyone wants the person who can offer them the best in all of these areas-the pinnacle person. And we all have slightly different hierarchies in these different areas, but they are usually pre-written for us by our shared worldview, so they aren't that different. Yes, we all want the best looking mate, the one who can bring home the most bacon (or kale, in my case), the one who is the best communicator. But which of these do you end up pursuing? The one who is there when you want to find them, is also ready, and fits more of your pinnacle criteria than others you know. For the record, I think 'spark/chemistry/whatever' is real, but I apparently have no idea what it is. Maybe you only know when you feel it.

 

I think I am great looking (i.e. I have learned to mostly love my physical self) but I don't think that is how others generally see me (see, I too am still controlled by what society deems as pleasing- and I guess that means I try to date men who are seen as conventionally hotter than me). My features are quite uniquely put together (this is not a metaphor for being the dog-faced girl, it just means unique); people think I am different ethnicities all the time. So I have gotten used to not being most caucasian men's ideal and thus most men's ideal, since European conquest historically set the standard which our westernized modern worldview. Now I date men of different ethnicities all the time, so I don't go dateless. But it does mean that certain guys, I just don't go after, because I perceive that they aren't gonna be attracted to me. If they approach me, gravy. But it rarely if ever happens.

 

What about the non-typically attractive people? The ones that it takes a few times of seeing them for their attractiveness to be recognized. Ever meet someone like that? The most pleasing arrangements are noticed subconsciously (you almost never hear a guy wax poetic about how her eyebrows are arched perfectly or her nose is the correct distance from her lips- this is all processed AS they recognize her as attractive or not). Physical attractiveness is based on two things, IMO. Symmetry of features, and emotional response (she looks like my mom; he has the same tattoo as my ex, she looks like Wonder-Woman, he looks like my HS sweetheart).

 

I do believe that there are enlightened people out there (I'm trying to be one myself) who see beyond that from the beginning, into someones soul. But it usually comes after spending time getting to know them. Sexual response comes from below the conscious mind; it is almost impossible to defy. Do people who have this ability to see beyond the physical from the beginning see physical beauty as a bonus, or as irrelevant?

Edited December 16, 2014 by genuinelyloverly7
word placement

[Weezy1973]

I disagree. Broken down by gender, here is the list as I see it:

 

What WOMEN look for (past age 30):

1) Socioeconomic status

2) Humor

3) Looks

 

Note that intelligence doesn't even make the list. Most women mistake success for intelligence, so it doesn't matter. Also, if you're talking about women younger than 30, reverse #1 and #3 above.

 

What MEN look for (regardless of age):

1) Looks

2) Not crazy

 

That's about it for what men look for.

 

So there's real evidence to support what I'm saying. People match up in terms of physical attractiveness, socioeconomic status and IQ. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant.

 

And as you stated, your post is just how you see it. Based on, I'm guessing, a combination of your personal experience and a large helping of confirmation bias. So, actually quite meaningless if you're trying to actually make real assertions about people...

[Bellaisa]

Attractive people want to be with other attractive people. And attractive people even get treated better in general than ones who are seen as unattractive. You'd never see a good looking woman smile at an ugly guy, but she definitely would to someone who's handsome.

 

That's a very general statement to make , and I totally think it is untrue.

 

How about Sean Stephenson who has an attractive wife but is not considered attractive? I'm sure his wife first had to smile at him (blows your point out of the water) and then dated him. Moreover, there are plenty of ugly guys who are dating attractive women. You can find them all over the place.

[Weezy1973]

That's a very general statement to make , and I totally think it is untrue.

 

How about Sean Stephenson who has an attractive wife but is not considered attractive? I'm sure his wife first had to smile at him (blows your point out of the water) and then dated him. Moreover, there are plenty of ugly guys who are dating attractive women. You can find them all over the place.

 

And vice-versa. But they're the exception to the rule. People match up in terms of physical attractiveness. It's just a fact, supported by lots of research.

[Leigh 87]

I thought your 'league' is defined by who you actually attract?

 

Then again, I am unsure about leagues; one guy I met overseas who I Just went up and started chatting to (as you do in hostels) told me that he thought I was way out of his league and he was thrilled I actually started talking to him.

 

Then he lost interest - hence - he is out of MY league - the many men who tell me how gorgeous they think I am, are the men who I DO NOT feel any chemistry or excitement for!

 

I do think the men who are stereotypically "hot" do tend to have girls with nice features - slender, small noses, nothing offensive...

 

I am newly single and I ask myself the same question: the men I feel butterflies and chemistry for don't want me, this far, where as the men who think I am drop dead gorgeous as men I DO NOT want to kiss:(

 

Hence the age old question: settle for low chemistry and let it build once you : get to love their personality: or, shoot ABOVE your league look wise, and get the sparks, the grand chemistry and the excitement BUT only be their short lived fling until someone better comes along?

 

I am resigned to being single forever at this stage - it is better than settling just for the sake of having a life partner.

[ascendotum]

I am newly single and I ask myself the same question: the men I feel butterflies and chemistry for don't want me, this far, where as the men who think I am drop dead gorgeous as men I DO NOT want to kiss:(

 

Hence the age old question: settle for low chemistry and let it build once you : get to love their personality: or, shoot ABOVE your league look wise, and get the sparks, the grand chemistry and the excitement BUT only be their short lived fling until someone better comes along?

 

I am resigned to being single forever at this stage - it is better than settling just for the sake of having a life partner.

 

lol. this is the dilemma for many women. I think many have a bet each way. Play for the hotter guys and the 'amzzzing chemistry', and then as the get older and more inclined to want to settle down they switch over the nicer stable, good long term, slow burn chemistry guy. You can do both. You don't have to make a life changing decision now. You have not been single for all that long to want to chuck in the towel on finding someone that's between the two outcomes - a guy that's at your level and who thinks you're smashing. Give it a year.

 

Its always much easier to find someone who's crazy for you and will be devoted, if you don't care too much what they look like. You trade your happiness for their happiness. A relationship where both partners think they hit the jackpot would be the ideal, but alas lots don't get to get it.