I love him but I don't know what he's thinking anymore

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Thanks for the links, Adele. Great site.

 

The one who cares the least is the one who controls the "relationship" guess who that is, Always Puzzled?

 

Too true.

 

DO NOT DO THAT. It will not matter since he obviously doesn't want things to change or he'd be telling you that he does & backing it up w/ action.

 

He'd let you know in a BIG way if he wanted there to be an "us" for you two.

 

So you guys feel CONFIDENT that he will let me know if he wants to continue anything with me? Even if I told him I can't have him in my life anymore? Even if he's extremely self-controlled and possibly stubborn? What if he misses me, but refuses to reach out first?? What if he's too emotionally guarded to express how he feels?

 

That was the most emotional progress I've ever seen in one post, no joke. Good job. Keep it together & move on.

 

Aw, this made me tear up. Everything makes me cry these days. Thank you for the kind words.

 

*********************

Having a rough day. He hasn't been on facebook all day long, so my imagination is running wild. I don't think unfriending him would be at all healthy for me right now, because I did that when I ended things the first time, and promptly went into panic mode once the connection was broken. I would prefer to keep a civil connection. It's all too easy too see when he's been on, so when he's been offline all day, it makes me feel like he's with some girl.

*********************

 

Short story, maybe just to temporarily pacify myself, and offer a benefit to keeping him as a facebook friend:

 

In my 20's, I met a guy I really really liked, and we "hung out" for a couple of months. He seemed to have zero desire to let anything progress, made very little effort to see me, was barely present, but seemed to like me when we did hang out. I got upset and angry about his lack of effort, and told him I just couldn't see him anymore. He seemed a bit surprised, and said okay, and to let him know if I changed my mind. I never called again, nor did he. Fastforward one year, and I ran into him at a mutual friend's house. We started talking and hanging out again, and though I was wary and assumed he'd want nothing out of it, it actually turned into something. I tried to break up with him a few months in, and he said he loved me for the first time. Then we ended up moving in together. He was also very avoidant, and downright abusive, so it ended. But maybe this could happen with current guy. Maybe the timing is just wrong.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I think I've said this somewhere already, but the first time I asked him over text what we were, and he said just friends... I then asked him if he liked me enough to ever be more, and he said "don't know." But later that night when I went over, without my asking him anything, he hugged me and said "I'm sorry Kelly, I DO like you. I DO like you." My point is that he doesn't always say what he feels, especially over text.

So back in the beginning, when things were perfect and beautiful and amazing and he was your soulmate...the most he ever told you was that he liked you as a friend? Think about it: this is the most he's EVER felt for you. He liked you as a friend. This was never a romance. I don't know how it can be any more clear. You're chasing after someone who never saw you as a potential girlfriend, not even when it should have been all rainbows and happiness.

 

The thing that creates all my doubts about whether or not he cared is that he wasn't initiating contact. But then why did he invite me over when I texted him? I would say "hey" and he would say "do you want to come over" and then he'd call me on the phone and say he wanted to see me. I didn't ask to come over. If he just saw me as entertainment, why wouldn't he just text and say hey come over?

Because he literally forgets you exist until you contact him. He does not care enough to think about you or even remember you until you remind him. Does that sound harsh? It is, but it's true. If he can't be bothered to so much as send a text it means you are at the very bottom of his priority list, but he's happy to play around if you are.

 

Also, does he really know how much I like him? I guess he probably does, since I've continued to initiate contact. And I've told him that I care and that I feel we had a deep connection.. So I dunno... I don't know if he realizes just how much I like him, or not.

Yes, he knows. He knows you spent six weeks fooling around and then when he left you went ballistic. He knows you spent two months of your life chasing him while he totally ignored you. And you continue to text him even now, begging for his attention. He knows you're willing to do anything for him no matter how undignified...I assure you he knows exactly how you feel.

 

So you guys feel CONFIDENT that he will let me know if he wants to continue anything with me?

 

Yes, because that is what people who are interested do. They realize someone is missing, they want to be with that someone, and then they tell the other person. When you care about someone you make an effort to talk to them.

 

What if he misses me, but refuses to reach out first?? What if he's too emotionally guarded to express how he feels?

Then that means he still cares more about his image than he cares about you. Think about it: the best-case scenario is that he cares more about his reputation and his "dignity" than he cares about you. But he doesn't even care that much.

 

Having a rough day. He hasn't been on facebook all day long, so my imagination is running wild. I don't think unfriending him would be at all healthy for me right now, because I did that when I ended things the first time, and promptly went into panic mode once the connection was broken. I would prefer to keep a civil connection. It's all too easy too see when he's been on, so when he's been offline all day, it makes me feel like he's with some girl.

This is why you need to delete him immediately, or hide him somehow. If you experience panic when you can't see him on Facebook, you have an extremely healthy addiction that needs to stop. You need to break yourself from the habit, ideally with the help of a therapist, because the alternative is much worse. What happens when you see his page updated to "In A Relationship"? It's going to happen eventually. How will you deal?

 

...He seemed to have zero desire to let anything progress, made very little effort to see me, was barely present, but seemed to like me when we did hang out. I got upset and angry about his lack of effort, and told him I just couldn't see him anymore. He seemed a bit surprised, and said okay, and to let him know if I changed my mind. I never called again, nor did he... I tried to break up with him a few months in, and he said he loved me for the first time. Then we ended up moving in together. He was also very avoidant, and downright abusive, so it ended

.

 

You need to ask yourself why you're attracted to avoidant, disinterested men. Why are you willing to do all the work for men who don't care about you? This guy has never even dated you but you're acting like his ex-girlfriend trying to get him back. You can't date him because he doesn't see you that way.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

So back in the beginning, when things were perfect and beautiful and amazing and he was your soulmate...the most he ever told you was that he liked you as a friend? Think about it: this is the most he's EVER felt for you. He liked you as a friend. This was never a romance. I don't know how it can be any more clear. You're chasing after someone who never saw you as a potential girlfriend, not even when it should have been all rainbows and happiness.

 

Actually, he told me he loved me several times.

 

Because he literally forgets you exist until you contact him. He does not care enough to think about you or even remember you until you remind him. Does that sound harsh? It is, but it's true. If he can't be bothered to so much as send a text it means you are at the very bottom of his priority list, but he's happy to play around if you are.

 

Yes, very harsh. It's thoughts like these that make me feel depressed and leave me wondering what about me is not good enough. I'm not sure this is a productive or healthy line of thinking for women. I see this on tons of threads - people *harshly* telling the OP that a guy couldn't care less about them. It hurts!!! I'm not criticizing you for telling me this - I'm just saying that it really does hurt to hear it.

 

Yes, he knows. He knows you spent six weeks fooling around and then when he left you went ballistic. He knows you spent two months of your life chasing him while he totally ignored you. And you continue to text him even now, begging for his attention. He knows you're willing to do anything for him no matter how undignified...I assure you he knows exactly how you feel.

 

No, I have stopped. I'm not texting him now. I've texted him two times since I said "goodbye" - once to leave things on a more civil/friendly note, and once to say hello. I'm sure that's two times too many, but I have stopped. Thanks for the confirmation that he knows how I feel, though... I do have weak moments where I wonder if I should tell him (they are passing moments, though, and I won't do it).

 

Yes, because that is what people who are interested do. They realize someone is missing, they want to be with that someone, and then they tell the other person. When you care about someone you make an effort to talk to them.

 

Yeah

 

This is why you need to delete him immediately, or hide him somehow. If you experience panic when you can't see him on Facebook, you have an extremely healthy addiction that needs to stop. You need to break yourself from the habit, ideally with the help of a therapist, because the alternative is much worse. What happens when you see his page updated to "In A Relationship"? It's going to happen eventually. How will you deal?

 

I know. I will delete him when I'm ready. I'm sure I'm far from the only one to have this unhealthy addiction - I've seen it said that something like 80-90% of people follow their exes/crushes/whatever on facebook. It's not uncommon. If I did see evidence of him being in a relationship, it would crush me, you're right. So like I said, I'll delete him when I'm ready.

 

You need to ask yourself why you're attracted to avoidant, disinterested men. Why are you willing to do all the work for men who don't care about you? This guy has never even dated you but you're acting like his ex-girlfriend trying to get him back. You can't date him because he doesn't see you that way.

 

Again, I think this is very common among women - to fall for the unavailable guy, to put in a ton of effort when we're getting little to nothing in return. My problem, personally, is that he was full-on interested in the beginning (I know you don't believe me, but he was). He showed a ton of attention and affection from Day 1, made me feel wonderful and cared about. He drew me in and I was hooked. Only later did he become disinterested. I'm not attracted to men who are avoidant from the start - I wouldn't waste my time. I'm attracted to what we once had, no matter how short-lived. It was incredible and intense and made me happy - who wouldn't want that back?!?

[AlwaysPuzzled]

I don't mean to sound all defensive. It just puts me in a really down mood to think things like he's just not that into me, he doesn't care about me, he's not even almost interested, he doesn't think I'm good enough, etc. I KNOW he was into me in the beginning. A ton of men drag their feet about the girlfriend title - I'm not sure this means a whole lot within the span of six weeks. But the entire time, he was making all the effort with initiating; he listened and asked questions; he remembered everything I said because he was paying attention; he wanted to see me all the time and talk to me when he wasn't seeing me; he TOLD me how much he liked me (and even said he loved me) except when I pressured him with the "what are we" talks. All the signs were there. He was very much into me, I have zero doubt.

 

He didn't leave me or end things at the end of those wonderful weeks - I did that, and it was a huge mistake, because it screwed up something that was happy and wonderful, something that was continuing to grow. He didn't start ignoring me until I got angry, called things off, turned completely cold, deleted him from facebook, accused him of things, and then overwhelmed him with messages. For a few days, he was still trying to talk to me, but I kept shutting him down. I ruined things. I would probably have ignored me too.

 

This second time around, I expected things to immediately go back to the way they were in the beginning. I became anxious and worried and preoccupied, while he was probably feeling a bit guarded and wary (as was I). I gave it all of a week and a half before telling him I couldn't keep doing this, because he wasn't doing such and such. I'll say it again - in person, he seemed completely and fully into me in every way. He was excitedly talking about things to do together in the near future. He was telling me verbally that he liked me, and he was showing it through actions and body language. And then I once again screwed it all up by asking pressure-filled questions, getting anxious, calling it off after little more than a week.

 

So I'm not sure how all of this equates to "he doesn't care" and "he was never interested". He may have become uninterested and quit caring as much, due to my off-putting behavior. He also had his own problems - alcoholism, drastic change in work schedule/location, not feeling good about living with his parents.

 

Typing it all out, it just becomes more apparent than ever that the whole thing is damaged beyond repair. But if anyone knows how to put things on a proper course again, PLEASE help me. I do feel at this moment that he is no longer interested, after everything that's happened. I'm slowly accepting this. But I don't believe that he was never interested or never cared.

[Adele0908]

OP, most people, especially other women who have been badly hurt in relationships, will tell you to walk away. Meanwhile, their love life is in shambles.

 

People always say, "walk away", because it's easy.

 

Staying in a relationship through challenges is what's hard.

 

I'm being real with you. I threw away a relationship that was perfectly fine, because I was "scared", and because my "friends" didn't like him, saying I could do better.

 

All but 2 of those "friends" either left me, betrayed me, or ridiculed me later on for being single, after they had finally gotten a man. 3 of them brought my ex-boyfriend's name up in a mocking manner. "Oh, whatever happened to Charles?"

 

It turns out these "friends", including my own mother, were just jealous all along.

 

You need to be careful who you listen to and who you go to for advice. You never know what kind of scars other people have. They may be bitter about something and so they encourage you to dump him. They may be lonely and want others to feel lonely too. Or they might just be jaded about men in general.

 

I'm telling you that your situation is not really damaged beyond repair.

 

It just would take some humility on your part to be able to admit your mistake.

 

I'm just saying all this because aside from him drinking too much, you said that he treated you well and that the trouble started when you started pressuring him for more. It doesn't matter if the man is Brad Pitt, a multi-millionaire, a sales clerk, or a man who doesn't drink or do drugs.

 

It doesn't matter who the man is....most men will run from women who pressure them for a relationship before they are ready. Why? Because it makes you look desperate, and it makes them think that you don't really want HIM, you just want a relationship. It makes you look like you are trying to fill a void. Plus it takes away from the fun of the moment and from actually enjoying each other.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Adele, I really hope that isn't a dig at me or other women in this thread, because if so that's profoundly disappointing. I am not motivated by jealousy or loneliness and I doubt anyone else here is either. Assuming that of other women is a lousy thing to do. The reason I'm in a loving, healthy relationship today is because I stopped settling and begging and instead raised my expectations.

 

OP, you should not settle for a disinterested, unavailable alcoholic who's in it for temporary benefits. If a potential partner isn't meeting your standards, tell him so, and if he can't deliver, move on immediately. Life is too short to spend on people who aren't good to you.

 

And no, not all men are commitment-phobic dolts who need to be tricked or coaxed into a relationship. You were not at all unreasonable to bring up the "what are we" question at six weeks; that's not pressure and would not drive away anyone who truly cared.

 

OP, you need to demand better for yourself and for future men. Don't allow anyone to treat you poorly. Don't spend time longing for anyone who ignores you and makes you cry. When you demand better you'll attract people with more to give.

[Adele0908]

Adele, I really hope that isn't a dig at me or other women in this thread, because if so that's profoundly disappointing. I am not motivated by jealousy or loneliness and I doubt anyone else here is either. Assuming that of other women is a lousy thing to do. The reason I'm in a loving, healthy relationship today is because I stopped settling and begging and instead raised my expectations.

 

Who said you were motivated by jealousy or loneliness? I said some people are. I don't know anything about you or your relationship.

 

I have a right to express my views...you don't have to agree. My experience has taught me to not blindly follow and believe what people say.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

I'm telling you that your situation is not really damaged beyond repair.

 

It just would take some humility on your part to be able to admit your mistake.

 

I'm just saying all this because aside from him drinking too much, you said that he treated you well and that the trouble started when you started pressuring him for more. It doesn't matter if the man is Brad Pitt, a multi-millionaire, a sales clerk, or a man who doesn't drink or do drugs.

 

It doesn't matter who the man is....most men will run from women who pressure them for a relationship before they are ready. Why? Because it makes you look desperate, and it makes them think that you don't really want HIM, you just want a relationship. It makes you look like you are trying to fill a void. Plus it takes away from the fun of the moment and from actually enjoying each other.

 

Thanks Adele Your words lift me from despair and give me hope. xoxo

 

After reading your words here, I sat down and wrote him a message (that I'm not going to send - yet, if at all) admitting to my mistakes and accepting responsibility for my own feelings. I told him what I like about him, and how he made me feel. I was trying to be honest without being mushy. I don't think I can send it, as it's too long, and he is probably beyond tired of all my messages. I wish I could tell him these things, but I don't know how. It would maybe be better in person, but he'd probably be scared to get together at this point, and I'd be scared to ask.

 

Most people on this thread will be appalled that I'd even consider reaching out to him, but I tend to think like you do, Adele. I think it was my pressure and expectations, my anxieties and defenses and off-putting behaviors, that pushed him away. I know he liked me. I know we enjoyed each other's company. I know we had a connection. He really DID treat me well, until I started acting the way I did and putting on the pressure. He ALWAYS treated me with kindness and respect while together in person - above and beyond. He did care.

 

I've read a lot about how you have to really emotionally connect with a guy on a certain level for him to want to stick around. I felt we did have an emotional connection, but perhaps it wasn't deep enough because I was unwilling to be vulnerable and let my guard down and really let him in. He let me into his inner world much more than I let him into mine.

 

I don't believe he would give me commitment right now, nor do I believe I should expect that. Wanting and expecting too much too soon is what got me into this mess in the first place. Maybe it would be *enough* to simply have him in my life sometimes, and see if more could grow from it. Make every experience together a positive one. Try to connect with him emotionally, and create a lasting bond. All the "rules" tell us that we shouldn't accept less than *everything*, but isn't there more gray area to relationships? Don't some relationships start off as friendships and grow into more? Isn't timing sometimes everything?

 

Still not sure what to do to reconnect with him. Just thinking.....

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Adele, I really hope that isn't a dig at me or other women in this thread, because if so that's profoundly disappointing. I am not motivated by jealousy or loneliness and I doubt anyone else here is either. Assuming that of other women is a lousy thing to do. The reason I'm in a loving, healthy relationship today is because I stopped settling and begging and instead raised my expectations.

 

OP, you should not settle for a disinterested, unavailable alcoholic who's in it for temporary benefits. If a potential partner isn't meeting your standards, tell him so, and if he can't deliver, move on immediately. Life is too short to spend on people who aren't good to you.

 

And no, not all men are commitment-phobic dolts who need to be tricked or coaxed into a relationship. You were not at all unreasonable to bring up the "what are we" question at six weeks; that's not pressure and would not drive away anyone who truly cared.

 

OP, you need to demand better for yourself and for future men. Don't allow anyone to treat you poorly. Don't spend time longing for anyone who ignores you and makes you cry. When you demand better you'll attract people with more to give.

 

I agree with this, as well. It's nice to have different perspectives. But your view leaves no room for the gray areas of life and relationships. Can't two people who are damaged/unsure/defensive/imperfect come together and maybe grow with each other into something more? Can't people change their minds? Can't interest and attraction wax and wane? If I became a stronger person with more self-respect while still connected with him, would he possibly adjust to it, and the dynamics of the "relationship" would change? I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but it seems possible. I know that my behavior pushed him away. So if my behavior changed, would he then relax under the lack of pressure, and a deeper bond could be formed?

 

I'm not just dying for a relationship with a title here. The last time I had one of those was 2 or 3 years ago, and I got bored with the guy after about 6 months. It was a reversal of this situation really - I was the one who felt pressured. I was really into the guy for quite some time, until the stress set in. I never viewed him as a passtime or a convenience. I genuinely liked him and cared about him. I think what happened was that I started to feel smothered. We spent too much time together, and I started getting annoyed with him and seeing things I didn't like. That didn't happen with this guy, on either end - it would have been apparent in his body language while we were together. He was into me, I know he was. I can pick up on the most subtle of signs that someone is pulling back (in person), and he never did. The time apart was the issue. Anyways, what I was trying to say was that I was completely single for the past 2-3 years, never a date or a crush. I'm not desperate for a relationship. I just really fell for this particular guy, hard.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Hi all. I've posted a couple threads about my current situation, so I won't detail it here. I just have a general question for the guys -- If a girl pressured you with expectations, is there anything she can do to correct the mistake? Or for the girls, have you ever put on too much pressure, gotten too needy, etc, and then were able to reconcile with the guy?

 

Quick summary of my situation:

-- Dated a guy for 6 weeks, felt like a relationship, but he said we were "just friends" for now

-- Guy is a commitment-phobe in all areas of his life. Very flightly about his living situation and work. Doesn't like responsiblity. Deals with things by running away. But otherwise a really good guy.

-- After the 6 weeks, I had a bit of a "freak out" about why we weren't boyfriend/girlfriend, and proceeded to go cold and tell him I wanted him out of my life since he didn't want more

-- I tried to fix it, spent two months sending him messages which he read but ignored

-- Finally started talking and seeing each other again for a couple of weeks, but I started feeling anxiety again about not being more. Things were great while together in person, but he never initiated any of the contact (however, I would text him and he would be the one to ask me over). We always had a great time together, connected in every way, got along fantastically.

-- I let my anxiety overtake me, and again ended things because of unmet expectations. We hung out two days after that and both pretended I'd never even said anything. A while later, I coldly/angrily ended things again because he still wasn't initiating any contact, and I thought it would hurt less if I gave him a verbal diarrhea of my feelings and made the decision to walk away.

-- We ultimately ended things on a friendly note, we're still facebook friends, but haven't really talked much since he came to pick up something he'd loaned me 10 days ago.

 

I made all kinds of mistakes, starting with ending things the first time, then desperately trying to fix it for the next two months, then having unrealistic expectations when we reconnected.

 

So for the guys, if you were in this situation, and you liked a girl but didn't want the pressure of a commitment, is there anything she could do or say to get back in your good graces? I fully understand where all my behavior came from, and I'm wanting to work on myself, but I still would love nothing more than to have him in my life on a semi-regular basis. I would just have to accept that it couldn't be a full-time thing for right now, but maybe something more could grow from it. I don't know how to approach him about trying again without it sounding like I'm desperate or needy or pressuring him for more than he is willing or able to give.

[d0nnivain]

It's a hard thing to over come if it's your personality. I like & need a LOT space in a relationship & tended to run when I thought a guy was clingy but sometimes even the strongest person needs reassurance.

 

If you have made your reasonable expectations clear & they are not being met, that is a great reason to end a relationship. If you expect 24/7 contact, that is not so reasonable & you need to adjust. If you want a commitment & he wants casual, you two simply aren't on the same page & it won't work so stop banging your head on the wall.

 

You also need to figure out where the anxiety is coming from. Were you cheated on in the past? Did your parents have a dysfunctional relationship? Do you focus too much on the bad stuff you hear & not enough of the good? Try to remember that people are more likely to talk when things are bad & they are complaining than they are to brag when things are good.

 

My GFs often say I don't talk about my relationships much. It's hard because when they are unhappy it feels mean to say how happy I am but because I think you need to hear a good thing:

 

On Monday I had to work later than I expected. But I was starving. My husband came to my office, brought a pizza & ate dinner with me in my conference room. In the grand scheme it's such a small thing but I was so grateful & felts so cared about, I made sure to say Thank you when I got home.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

It's a hard thing to over come if it's your personality. I like & need a LOT space in a relationship & tended to run when I thought a guy was clingy but sometimes even the strongest person needs reassurance.

 

Did you run even if you really liked the guy? Did you just start feeling smothered? If after you ran, the guy had told you that he realized he was being clingy and was working on himself to correct that, would you have become reinterested and have given it another chance?

 

If you have made your reasonable expectations clear & they are not being met, that is a great reason to end a relationship. If you expect 24/7 contact, that is not so reasonable & you need to adjust.

 

I didn't so much make them clear, I just hinted at it, and then blew up at him (with a goodbye text message) for not doing it. Namely, he wasn't initiating any contact, but would respond when I did. He initiated getting together, after I texted. But it bothered me that he never texted to say hello. This was the second time around that I'm talking about. The first time, he initiated 80-90% of everything, so the difference was noticeable.

 

I don't expect 24/7 contact, but I do love to at least say hello once a day. I was texting between once a day and once every other day - I'd skip a day at times. And I wouldn't try to keep the convo going, I'd just say hey how are you, and it was a quick 4 or 5 message exchange.

 

If you want a commitment & he wants casual, you two simply aren't on the same page & it won't work so stop banging your head on the wall.

 

I guess this is what I keep pushing to the back of my mind and losing perspective on. The first time around, we were together all the time and got really close for 6 weeks, but he said we were "just friends". He also, however, said he loved me. This time around, it seemed that maybe he was keeping somewhat of a distance by not initiating texting so as to make it clear it was casual. I wanted more, because I care deeply for him, and I guess that's where the problems arose. He offered no reassurance that it would continue or turn into anything. At this point, I miss him so much that I'd be willing to accept him on a part-time basis - but it would probably quickly go south again, because I would really want more.

 

You also need to figure out where the anxiety is coming from.

 

I have a fear of abandonment, for sure, always have. And I've had a lot of crappy not-quite-relationships, and also a lot of guys who were really intense in the beginning and would then disappear. So that's where this comes from. It makes it hard to relax and just enjoy him once I find that I'm getting attached and really caring about this person. I start worrying about whether or not there will be a future. I don't know if something casual could turn into more if I was able to relax and just go with the flow?

 

On Monday I had to work later than I expected. But I was starving. My husband came to my office, brought a pizza & ate dinner with me in my conference room. In the grand scheme it's such a small thing but I was so grateful & felts so cared about, I made sure to say Thank you when I got home.

 

Aw, sweeeet You're lucky to have a good guy!

Edited November 26, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Question for the guys...

 

Have you ever started a relationship casually, but then gotten attached and wanted it to be more?

 

Why do you start off wanting casual in the first place?

 

Is there anything a girl can do to make you want to invest more time and effort?

[doeblin]

Why do you start off wanting casual in the first place?

 

Because we like sex.

 

Is there anything a girl can do to make you want to invest more time and effort?

 

Be interesting.

Obviously, this is not an On/Off switch, so... you can't make someone fall in love with you.

[central]

All of my dating was casual with the HOPE of it becoming more. Few were sufficiently compatible to want it to be more, though.

 

No one could make me be more interested than I was - the compatibility and chemistry is either there, or it isn't. If it is, then it still takes a lengthy period of dating to find out if it is strong enough to last a long time.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Because we like sex.

 

I should have mentioned that I don't mean "casual" in terms of just sex. I mean it more in terms of hanging out together and having a great time, sharing details of your lives with each other, lots of cuddling and affection and sweetness, and sleeping together (actually sleeping and cuddling all night - sometimes sex is part of the equation and sometimes not).

 

Be interesting.

Obviously, this is not an On/Off switch, so... you can't make someone fall in love with you.

 

What if there is high chemistry - emotionally, mentally, and physically. He finds you interesting. He acts like he really likes you (actions, body language), and tells you that he does. But he doesn't want to put a label on what the relationship is, and he doesn't seem to want to be locked into any responsibilities associated with relationships? Can a guy love you, but be dead set against a relationship because of his lifestyle (working a lot, wanting to be able to pick up and leave town whenever it suits him, highly independent and introverted, etc)? Can anything change his mind?

[AlwaysPuzzled]

All of my dating was casual with the HOPE of it becoming more. Few were sufficiently compatible to want it to be more, though.

 

No one could make me be more interested than I was - the compatibility and chemistry is either there, or it isn't. If it is, then it still takes a lengthy period of dating to find out if it is strong enough to last a long time.

 

How long would you casually date someone, if the chemistry is there, before deciding that you wanted it to last?

[AlwaysPuzzled]

One more question!

 

Let's say the chemistry is there in all ways.

 

Lifestyles are a bit incompatible (he has a new job where he stays out of town during the week for work), but your way of being in life is pretty similar (non-materialistic, introverted, that kind of thing).

 

The one and only problem is that you want casual and she wants reassurance that it will last and become more (not marriage, but just something that will last and stick for a good long while).

 

Let's say she gets frustrated and feels unappreciated by your lack of commitment, and cuts things off.

 

Would you miss her? Would you eventually try to reconnect? Or would you feel it was more trouble than it was worth and just let it go? This is a short term "relationship" I'm talking about - on for 6 intense weeks, off for 2 months (because of above-mentioned frustrations), back on for 2 great weeks, and off again (again because of same frustrations). Would you try harder, or let it go?

[Kaya]

Alwayspuzzled, I'm by no means a relationship expert, and I'm not a guy, but re-read what you wrote here

 

-- Guy is a commitment-phobe in all areas of his life. Very flightly about his living situation and work. Doesn't like responsiblity. Deals with things by running away.

 

He offered no reassurance that it would continue or turn into anything. At this point, I miss him so much that I'd be willing to accept him on a part-time basis - but it would probably quickly go south again, because I would really want more.

 

Some further points for you to ponder:

 

* I read in one of your other posts that he treated his ex-girlfriend awfully. Do you want to be treated that same way? Because that is who he is - don't hold out for being the exception.

 

* Perhaps your gut instinct kicked in when you first broke up with him because deep down you already knew...? Trust that protective instinct?

 

* I know you miss him, I know you felt a connection, I know you're trying to make sense of everything - but - the relationship you should be striving for is one where the guy doesn't make you doubt so much.

 

* Have a look at where you stand with regards to your own self-worth. Do you truly believe you deserve a fulfilling relationship? Why do you feel the need to chase a commitment-phobe?

 

Big hugs x

[Copelandsanity]

AlwaysPuzzled, what you need is to develop a wholehearted belief that one can have happy, fulfilling life without any relationship whatsoever, and take the steps to creating that life for yourself. All of the needs fulfilled by a relationship - certainty, spontaneity, significance, love/connection, progress, contribution - can be attained at a solid level by non-relationship activities. What a relationship does is enhance an already happy life, but you don't need it to be fulfilled. Once you do this, you won't have the anxiety anymore.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Copelandsanity

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Some further points for you to ponder:

 

* I read in one of your other posts that he treated his ex-girlfriend awfully. Do you want to be treated that same way? Because that is who he is - don't hold out for being the exception.

 

* Perhaps your gut instinct kicked in when you first broke up with him because deep down you already knew...? Trust that protective instinct?

 

* I know you miss him, I know you felt a connection, I know you're trying to make sense of everything - but - the relationship you should be striving for is one where the guy doesn't make you doubt so much.

 

* Have a look at where you stand with regards to your own self-worth. Do you truly believe you deserve a fulfilling relationship? Why do you feel the need to chase a commitment-phobe?

 

Big hugs x

 

Thanks Kaya <3

 

You're right. My logical mind agrees with everything you're saying here. My heart just doesn't want to let him go, and I end up rationalizing everything and looking for ways to go back with him and make it work.

 

I guess I was thinking that the thing with his ex-girlfriend was several years ago, and maybe he's changed, or that maybe I would be the exception, if I could just figure out his fears and why he does what he does, and act accordingly.

 

I think you're right about my gut instinct kicking in that first time. That's exactly what it was - an instinct that things were about to head south, and I thought I should call it quits before that happened. I thought it would hurt less that way. But it didn't hurt less, it hurt tremendously, and I instantly regretted it and still have self-doubts about having done it. I keep wishing I could go back to that moment and just chill and let things play out. I'm really upset with myself that I did that. But I did it based on little things he'd said all along (always talking about moving out of state for work, for instance, which left me feeling unsure about any future with him). All the little red flags he'd let slip were sitting there in my subconscious the whole time, and he said a couple of things that day that both triggered my insecurities and brought those red flags into mind. I didn't put any thought into it, I just reacted, but that's where it came from.

 

Still, I know he liked me and we had a great connection, and if I'd just let him go off into his "man-cave" for a while (he was going to the beach by himself) and been patient, he may have come back and things would have continued to progress (the whole Mars/Venus rubber-band theory thing).

 

He did make me doubt, though - he planted little seeds of doubt all along the way, so I never felt secure. I guess I should just accept that my instincts were probably correct.

 

Thanks for reading my posts

[AlwaysPuzzled]

AlwaysPuzzled, what you need is to develop a wholehearted belief that one can have happy, fulfilling life without any relationship whatsoever, and take the steps to creating that life for yourself. All of the needs fulfilled by a relationship - certainty, spontaneity, significance, love/connection, progress, contribution - can be attained at a solid level by non-relationship activities. What a relationship does is enhance an already happy life, but you don't need it to be fulfilled. Once you do this, you won't have the anxiety anymore.

 

Thanks Copelandsanity

 

This is easier said than done, but definitely something I need to work on. I don't usually go in search of relationships, but when a guy comes along and I really like him and get attached, I pretty much drop everything else in my life. I manage to hang on to it for a little while (hobbies, interests, friends, etc), but never fully, because my mind is always distracted with thoughts of *him*. Eventually (usually after the first month of seeing him) I just drop all of it and focus full-time on the relationship. It's not a decision I make, but it is what I do. I guess I feel like I have to hyper-focus on it or else everything will all fall apart - which actually has the opposite effect, in that it causes so much anxiety and worry that things do fall apart, because I start acting differently with him.

 

It all makes so much sense right now, in hind-sight. When I'm caught up in the worries, I can't seem to break out of it.

 

It ruins potential relationships. Maybe these relationships wouldn't work anyways - like with him, since he's a commitment-phobe and has a history of treating girls in a dismissive way. But it could have worked out if I had been able to keep my own life going and kept the worrying at bay. And now that I've been that way, and it caused the premature end of the relationship, there's nothing I can do to fix it, is there? If someone came to me and said, "hey, I realize now where all that stuff I did came from, and I'm going to work on myself and be more self-aware and try not to let it happen again," I might understand and give them a second chance, albeit guardedly perhaps. But you can't tell this stuff to guys can you? They don't want to hear about all this emotional stuff. So taking his own issues out of the equation and just focusing on how I acted.... is it repairable with him, do you think?

Edited November 26, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Nope, never.

 

Sex. If I say it's casual only, it's because there is something about the woman that makes me not want anything else with her.

 

No. If we started casual, she is either not attractive enough for anything more, or she has too many dealbreakers for me. Either way, it's not happening.

 

Hmmm. That sucks to hear But thanks for your input!

 

Have you ever been at a point in your life where you had issues or felt unsettled and could only handle something non-committed, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with the girl?

 

With the guy I'm talking about, it had nothing to do with sex. We had sex sometimes, at his prompting, but that was only about 5% of the whole "relationship." He was definitely attracted and wanted it (but was often too drunk to follow through), but it was way more about all the hanging out and having fun, the cuddling and sweet affection and just staring into each other's eyes, the talking and learning about each other and sharing things with each other about ourselves. Then we'd go to sleep and sometimes have sex, sometimes not, but always fall asleep in each other's arms. It was all very magical and perfect, honestly. And we spent every other day/night together.

 

So I guess I really just don't understand. I don't understand how a guy can seem SOOO into it in every way, but still say we're "just friends."

[snowflakes88]

You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the why. It happens. Frequently. There's a huge difference between (1) a man liking you, and (2) a man liking you enough to want to be with you in a meaningful and committed way. When it's the latter, you will know. I know it's tempting to think your situation is just uniquely complicated and deep and messy and special (we've all been there) -- but it really is as easy as that, as difficult as it may be to accept.

[Frank2thepoint]

So for the guys, if you were in this situation, and you liked a girl but didn't want the pressure of a commitment, is there anything she could do or say to get back in your good graces?

 

As d0nnivain mentioned, if you and the man are on a different page (you want a relationship, but he just wants casual) it is a moot point to even try. But for myself, I'm a serious relationship type of guy. I always made my intentions clear, and most women I've interacted with did not want the same. So I did not hover around, or attempted to convince the woman to try a serious relationship. I just moved on. Yes it does suck and is a disappointment, but you have to roll with the punches.

 

Also for me, if I met a woman, had chemistry on date 1, and she wanted a serious relationship from that point on, I would accept it. There is no difference for me between date 1 or date 10, The end goal is a relationship, which we both want. If we don't jell, we break up. Real simple. There are no guarantees in relationships.

 

 

I didn't so much make them clear, I just hinted at it, and then blew up at him (with a goodbye text message) for not doing it.

 

This was your fault. You did not make clear your intentions to him. Hinting is great for flirting and sexual innuendos, but when it comes to solidifying a relationship, you need to voice your intentions. So you were even wrong for getting mad at him, because he probably didn't fully understand where it was come from. Sure he may have had an idea, but nothing solid to go on.