I love him but I don't know what he's thinking anymore

[AlwaysPuzzled]

But just because the dating pool is restricted and the chances of finding a great partner are reduced, it is still no excuse to spend time hankering after a guy who obviously isn't into you, who is a "free spirit", an alcoholic and who lives with his parents in his late 30s.

He is such a good catch, not!!

 

Wanting to be with him is not a case of me just settling for whatever is out there. I DO see him as a good catch He's extremely intelligent, hard-working, talented, unique, good-looking, sweet, affectionate, very very funny, compassionate towards animals, calm, etc etc, I could go on and on. Trust me, I wish I didn't see him as a good catch. I don't care that he's an alcoholic (other than his own health and safety) or that he lives with his parents.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

http://www.mishpaha.org.il/kvatzim/pdf/Tatkin-Addiction-to-Alone-Time.pdf

 

This article seems to be written about ME (!). This is EXACTLY how I operate, in terms of needing alone time, and having a hard time shifting between interaction and being alone with my own thoughts. It could be that if I were in a longterm relationship, I might start being this way with a partner, as well. I wouldn't know, since I've never made it past a year with anyone. I'm like this with my family and friends, though. I'm constantly having to tell people that I'm sorry, it's nothing against them, but I just need some time to myself (which ends up being about 90-95% of the time). How interesting.

 

Maybe this is how he feels, as well, but because he doesn't have the fearful attachment issues that I have, he doesn't cling to any one person like I do. I can put my need for alone time aside when I first meet someone and everything is new and exciting. Being with them overrides my desire to be alone. But take a good friend I've known since high school, and I hardly ever talk to her unless she initiates it and I happen to be in the mood to respond. She's always asking me to get together, always texting wanting to chat, and I usually just don't want to be distracted from my own thoughts. This doesn't mean I care about her any less. I actually feel guilty about it, and feel like I should be a better friend.

 

See, I like discussing and exploring these types of things.

 

Could it be that he is JUST like me in this regard, and is therefore able to go for longer periods of time with no contact because he's stuck in his own head? He would have no fear of me going anywhere, because I clung on so tightly for so long. Whereas with me, the time and space make me fear abandonment. With my friend I spoke of, I don't fear this, because I know she'll always be there.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

This article seems to be written about ME (!). This is EXACTLY how I operate, in terms of needing alone time, and having a hard time shifting between interaction and being alone with my own thoughts. It could be that if I were in a longterm relationship, I might start being this way with a partner, as well. I wouldn't know, since I've never made it past a year with anyone. I'm like this with my family and friends, though. I'm constantly having to tell people that I'm sorry, it's nothing against them, but I just need some time to myself (which ends up being about 90-95% of the time). How interesting.

 

Maybe this is how he feels, as well, but because he doesn't have the fearful attachment issues that I have, he doesn't cling to any one person like I do. I can put my need for alone time aside when I first meet someone and everything is new and exciting. Being with them overrides my desire to be alone. But take a good friend I've known since high school, and I hardly ever talk to her unless she initiates it and I happen to be in the mood to respond. She's always asking me to get together, always texting wanting to chat, and I usually just don't want to be distracted from my own thoughts. This doesn't mean I care about her any less. I actually feel guilty about it, and feel like I should be a better friend.

 

See, I like discussing and exploring these types of things.

 

Could it be that he is JUST like me in this regard, and is therefore able to go for longer periods of time with no contact because he's stuck in his own head? He would have no fear of me going anywhere, because I clung on so tightly for so long. Whereas with me, the time and space make me fear abandonment. With my friend I spoke of, I don't fear this, because I know she'll always be there.

 

ETA: Don't worry, I'm not using this line of thought as an excuse, or a way to get him back. I think if I could just understand some of these things, it would help me take it all less personally.

 

Now I feel like I'm going to have to start apologizing every time I say anything that could be taken as me *trying to get back together with him*. I don't want to start apologizing for my every word and thought, so I'm just not going to fall into that trap.

Edited December 3, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[anna121]

Here's a question. At what point is too soon to have the "what are we" conversation?

 

That depends on the person. For some - a week. For others - four months.

 

But I will tell you this: saying "we're friends" pretty much guarantees there is no romantic interest.

 

I don't care how he was acting. He would not say "we're friends" if he was thinking of you as girlfriend material in any way, shape or form

[AlwaysPuzzled]

That depends on the person. For some - a week. For others - four months.

 

But I will tell you this: saying "we're friends" pretty much guarantees there is no romantic interest.

 

I don't care how he was acting. He would not say "we're friends" if he was thinking of you as girlfriend material in any way, shape or form

 

Okay. I guess I need to finally start trying to accept this.

 

So here's a follow-up question. How can someone want to spend all their time with you, want to get to know you inside and out by asking questions and actively listening, be constantly all over you physically (not just sex), tell you they LOVE you, not be seeing other people (because they're always with you), talk into the future, treat you with extreme kindness and caring, do things for you and look out for you, tell you that you mean something to them.... How can they do all those things and see you as just a "friend"? I really and truly just do not get it.

 

Second thing is, if he liked me THAT much to do and say all those things, what is it about ME that isn't worthy of the girlfriend status?

 

This is what I'm struggling with and trying to make sense of. I guess it's so foreign a concept to me because when I consider someone a "friend," I don't give them my all, nor do accept all from them. I just can't do it.

 

At the heart of this, I guess I feel like there must be something severely lacking in me that he wouldn't want more. And I feel stupid for believing that there WAS more based on how he was acting. I've been through this with other guys before, but I've never understood it. And I've never had someone be THIS present while saying I'm just a "friend."

[snowflakes88]

There is zero information about the precise sample size or type of study, and we know nothing about the methodology except that it's "simplified" (which hardly suggests rigor). And the author is shilling a book. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Elaine's point is valid: just because you can't have the prince doesn't mean you settle for a toad.

 

Oh, no worries! No way I'm settling for anybody who can't (or won't) reciprocate everything I have to offer.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

And let me add to the above post that he showed NO signs of distance whatsoever while we were together in person. Ever. Not physically, mentally, or emotionally. He was all there, every single second of every time we were together. When I'm with a "friend", I subconsciously put up ALL KINDS of barriers. I would have noticed if he had, and he didn't. When I talk about him being cold and distant, it was always over text - short text responses.

 

If you can't trust someone who acts in every way like they want to be with you, then what the hell CAN you trust in life?

 

I am REALLY struggling to understand this, and that's why I keep fighting what you're all saying, I guess. Because it just makes zero sense to me how someone can be that way.

[snowflakes88]

Sex just wasn't hardly a part of it. I don't care much about sex. I'm all about the physical closeness - the cuddling and holding hands and sleeping in each other's arms, all that feel-good stuff. I don't feel comfortable having sex with someone in the very beginning. He didn't seem too concerned about sex either. He wanted it several times, but we would try to start and then be too drunk to follow through. I figured out early on that this would always be the case (because he was always soo drunk), and so I didn't worry about having sex too soon because I knew it just wasn't gonna happen. We only had "actual" sex one, two times at the most. This would probably be a problem or deal-breaker for most of you, but for me it was perfect!!! I knew he wanted me, and that was enough. I was relieved that he couldn't follow through (I really don't know how graphic to get about that here, so I'll just leave it at that). And before anyone starts saying that he must not have been attracted to me, this was not the case - it was clear that he was attracted and turned on and wanted it. His ex said he always had the same problem with her.

 

Too drunk to be intimate. Too drunk to drive and pick you up. Yuck. What is it you find so appealing about this?

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Too drunk to be intimate. Too drunk to drive and pick you up. Yuck. What is it you find so appealing about this?

 

He's always drunk. Always. Unless he's working, and even then, he's just pushing through the hangover.

 

He's the sweetest, happiest, most fun, most affectionate drunk you will ever meet. And he still manages to run his life fairly well - shows up for work, works hard. I'm naive about alcoholism, I guess, because I don't see it as the same problem that other people do. Not with him, anyways, since he's so highly functioning.

[snowflakes88]

Obviously he didn't treat you as a friend, AP. Friends aren't intimate. Friends don't spend days at a time together. But when it came time to answer what the two of you were doing, that was the label he put on it in order to tamp down any expectations you may have had for more.

 

People future fake all the time! It seems like you think this is so uncommon -- like how could someone DO these things and SAY these things and then not really want to be with me? It happens ALL of the time. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find one woman in her 30s who hasn't been through it a time or two, or maybe three. Sometimes people come on super strong, say and do all of the right things, and ultimately decide they aren't as into you as they initially thought they were. Or that they don't want what maybe they thought they wanted. Or they were drunk when all that went down and then they sobered up. Any number of things. It's not fun, but it happens, and it's not at all rare.

 

It doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. Have you wanted to be with every man who wanted to be with you? The guy I discussed in this thread obviously did not want to be with me. And I assure you -- there is NOTHING wrong with me. Maybe I'm just not it for him. I've dated great guys before who weren't it for me, but they turned out to be it for someone else.

[snowflakes88]

He's always drunk. Always. Unless he's working, and even then, he's just pushing through the hangover.

 

He's the sweetest, happiest, most fun, most affectionate drunk you will ever meet. And he still manages to run his life fairly well - shows up for work, works hard. I'm naive about alcoholism, I guess, because I don't see it as the same problem that other people do. Not with him, anyways, since he's so highly functioning.

 

Yeah, I don't even really know what to say to this.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Obviously he didn't treat you as a friend, AP. Friends aren't intimate. Friends don't spend days at a time together. But when it came time to answer what the two of you were doing, that was the label he put on it in order to tamp down any expectations you may have had for more.

 

People future fake all the time! It seems like you think this is so uncommon -- like how could someone DO these things and SAY these things and then not really want to be with me? It happens ALL of the time. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find one woman in her 30s who hasn't been through it a time or two, or maybe three. Sometimes people come on super strong, say and do all of the right things, and ultimately decide they aren't as into you as they initially thought they were. Or that they don't want what maybe they thought they wanted. Or they were drunk when all that went down and then they sobered up. Any number of things. It's not fun, but it happens, and it's not at all rare.

 

It doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. Have you wanted to be with every man who wanted to be with you? The guy I discussed in this thread obviously did not want to be with me. And I assure you -- there is NOTHING wrong with me. Maybe I'm just not it for him. I've dated great guys before who weren't it for me, but they turned out to be it for someone else.

 

I know it happens all the time. I've read tons of message boards with women asking all the same things I'm asking, just as confused as I am. It just sucks. And it's something I could never, ever do, so that's why I can't fully understand how someone could do it. I'm always aware of not wanting to lead someone on, for one thing, and for another, I just can't be all over them if I'm not feeling it - especially not constantly, for weeks and months on end. Its cruelly misleading, ya know?

 

I'll be interested to see if your guy comes back around. It sounds like maybe he got scared and bolted (not to give you false hopes! please take what I say with a grain of salt, given the obvious source (me)). I think it can happen. I think guys can get scared, don't you?

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Yeah, I don't even really know what to say to this.

 

I know...

[AlwaysPuzzled]

One more question, sorry. I'd just be really interested in someone's view on this particular situation:

 

The ex from long ago that I've mentioned... the one who I saw casually for about 3 months and ended things with because he wasn't putting in much effort, and then a year later, met up with him again and it turned into a year-long relationship. The first time around, he just didn't seem at all interested in a relationship, although he seemed to like me well enough. He never came on extremely strong like this recent guy did; we just hung out and held hands and slept in the same bed together sometimes, etc. He never said he loved me, we didn't spend all our time together. I liked him and wanted more, but he gave no indication of wanting more.

 

I didn't change at all within the year between going out, nor did he. Nothing changed. Not our appearances, or living situations, or stress levels, or anything at all of significance. He wasn't seeing anyone else at any time surrounding that first time, or the year in which we were apart.

 

So WHY did he not want a relationship the first time (when all of you would have surely said that he must just not be that into me), but he DID want a relationship with me the second time? I was the same person, he was the same person.

 

Not sure what my point is. I guess it's just proof/evidence that it's not always the case that if someone doesn't want a relationship at a certain point in time, it means you're just not "the one" they want to be with. If that was always the case, this guy wouldn't have wanted to be with me the second time either.

 

Also, just to point out - I broke up with him at the end of that year, and he didn't chase me, or try to change my mind after we parted (he didn't come after me the first time we parted, either). He grew cold and didn't want to talk. On the day we moved out of the apartment, he wouldn't even look at me. I thought he must not have truly cared. But I ran into a friend of his months down the line, and the friend told me that my ex had been seriously considering moving back to town to be with me, and that he'd had a hard time with the breakup. By his silence, you all would have said that he didn't care, didn't want me, because he wasn't reaching out and letting me know. But it wouldn't have been true.

 

(***I've said previously that it ended up being abusive later, when we lived together, but let's please take that out of the equation as it's irrelevant to the question.***)

 

Just curious on your take on this, anyone NOT necessarily equating it to the situation with this guy, just using it as an example of how things aren't always absolutely "he just doesn't want to be with you."

[snowflakes88]

Sure enough, we've circled right back to maybe-it's-not-really-that-he-just-doesn't-want-to-be-with-me-land. I don't think I can be of any further assistance, but I really do wish you the best of luck. I hope you eventually secure the resources to find a good therapist to help you work through some of this.

[anna121]

Okay. I guess I need to finally start trying to accept this.

 

So here's a follow-up question. How can someone want to spend all their time with you, want to get to know you inside and out by asking questions and actively listening, be constantly all over you physically (not just sex), tell you they LOVE you, not be seeing other people (because they're always with you), talk into the future, treat you with extreme kindness and caring, do things for you and look out for you, tell you that you mean something to them.... How can they do all those things and see you as just a "friend"? I really and truly just do not get it.

 

They DON'T see you as a "friend". They see you as someone to mess around with, have a good time with. Just not on a permanent or serious basis.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of men. With as much kindness as I can muster: you can't possibly be this naive. If you are, then, well, this is where that leads.

 

 

Second thing is, if he liked me THAT much to do and say all those things, what is it about ME that isn't worthy of the girlfriend status?

 

This is what I'm struggling with and trying to make sense of. I guess it's so foreign a concept to me because when I consider someone a "friend," I don't give them my all, nor do accept all from them. I just can't do it.

 

At the heart of this, I guess I feel like there must be something severely lacking in me that he wouldn't want more. And I feel stupid for believing that there WAS more based on how he was acting. I've been through this with other guys before, but I've never understood it. And I've never had someone be THIS present while saying I'm just a "friend."

 

His rejection of you for that particular status FOR HIM says NOTHING about you, your worth as a girlfriend, your sex appeal, your wonderfulness. Zip zilch nada.

 

Until you realize that, you will be forever trapped in this analytical feedback loop.

[anna121]

I know it happens all the time. I've read tons of message boards with women asking all the same things I'm asking, just as confused as I am. It just sucks. And it's something I could never, ever do, so that's why I can't fully understand how someone could do it.

 

Look. People do sh%tty, sh%tty things ALL THE TIME.

 

Cheat on their spouses.

 

Lie to their kids.

 

Steal from their parents.

 

Stab friends in the back.

 

Rationalizing one's sh%tty behaviour, and engaging in it anyway, is a prime determinant of the human condition.

 

Of course, there are wonderful, upright, honest people with integrity. But you are coming across like you don't recognize that there are also really, really BAD people out there.

 

You ran into one. I'm sorry.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

<<deleted>>

 

Just feeling low and felt like venting. Had second thoughts. If anyone read it, that's fine.

Edited December 3, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[Itspointless]

There is zero information about the precise sample size or type of study, and we know nothing about the methodology except that it's "simplified" (which hardly suggests rigor). And the author is shilling a book. Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

i havent said that this was one of those articles. I wrote: 'Or see' refering to this website. As it was half passed one where I live, I was tired and not motivated to search for it as I do not keep citations stored of everything I read. I do not feel very motivated to search for it either just to prove the point here.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Wowwwww. I went 7 days NC, sure I'd never hear from him again, and determined not to text first. And he just texted me!!! Just to say hello. It's not because he "wants" something, as he is out of town working right now. I'm not going to listen to any negative comments about it and let it get me down - I am already aware that it means very little, that it's just a breadcrumb, whatever whatever. I'm just happy to hear from him. And I think I played it just right - responded politely and casually, and let him have the last word. Just wanted to share - maybe someone here will be happy for me :-)

 

ETA: This is the first time he's texted me first since we started talking again. I guess he figured I would continue reaching out, but I didn't, and so he did. Not getting my hopes up, but I am happy about this. Means he was thinking of me.

Edited December 4, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[LoverOfDance]

I'm happy for you actually :-) Been following your thread for a while now but didn't want to say anything cause a lot of the other posters were already saying most of things I wanted to say.

 

I feel like I can really relate to your situation. I understand what it feels like to be so in love with a man who's unavailable (be it emotionally or whatever). You talk about him like he is a puzzle that you're trying desperately to solve. You seem to be trying very hard to figure him out. I've been there. And to be honest, I'm still there, kind of, lol. The truth is that you can analyze and analyze all day (almost driving yourself insane), or you can decide you don't want to be miserable any more, leave the puzzle pieces on the floor and walk away.

 

Tbh, I really want you to have a happy ending. I think you should do what you think is best :-) But please be careful. Don't let this man take happiness away from your life. You deserve to be happy. All the best and I hope everything works out well :-)

[Itspointless]

Wowwwww. I went 7 days NC, sure I'd never hear from him again, and determined not to text first. And he just texted me!!! Just to say hello. It's not because he "wants" something, as he is out of town working right now. I'm not going to listen to any negative comments about it and let it get me down - I am already aware that it means very little, that it's just a breadcrumb, whatever whatever. I'm just happy to hear from him. And I think I played it just right - responded politely and casually, and let him have the last word. Just wanted to share - maybe someone here will be happy for me :-)

 

ETA: This is the first time he's texted me first since we started talking again. I guess he figured I would continue reaching out, but I didn't, and so he did. Not getting my hopes up, but I am happy about this. Means he was thinking of me.

I understand your feeling. It made me happy too, as not hearing for weeks made me wonder if I had been insane. But somehow I always was sure that at some point she would communicate again, and she did. I only was not prepared that it always was with weeks in between. An yes always just to say hello plus a few sentences. You know even when you do not want it, it raises hope, it just does.

 

I like what LoverOfDance said about that puzzle. I solved it but I am not happy with it: it was a mirror.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

I'm happy for you actually :-) Been following your thread for a while now but didn't want to say anything cause a lot of the other posters were already saying most of things I wanted to say.

 

I feel like I can really relate to your situation. I understand what it feels like to be so in love with a man who's unavailable (be it emotionally or whatever). You talk about him like he is a puzzle that you're trying desperately to solve. You seem to be trying very hard to figure him out. I've been there. And to be honest, I'm still there, kind of, lol. The truth is that you can analyze and analyze all day (almost driving yourself insane), or you can decide you don't want to be miserable any more, leave the puzzle pieces on the floor and walk away.

 

Tbh, I really want you to have a happy ending. I think you should do what you think is best :-) But please be careful. Don't let this man take happiness away from your life. You deserve to be happy. All the best and I hope everything works out well :-)

 

Aw, thank you so much for your sweet message I really appreciate the well wishes. Your description of seeing him as a puzzle is SO spot on. And you're right, it's been driving me insane trying to figure it out. I think I've tried enough and it's time to stop all that. His hello text is such a small thing, but I'm going to use it as a starting point to pull myself out of this funk. I know I shouldn't let his action or non-action dictate whether or not I allow myself to be happy, but at this point, whatever it takes to feel better right? I wish you the best in your situation too! I'll give your threads (if you have some) a look some time today. Thanks again for the kind words

[AlwaysPuzzled]

I understand your feeling. It made me happy too, as not hearing for weeks made me wonder if I had been insane.

 

Yes, exactly. You start to think, did that "relationship" ever even happen at all?!? Did it mean anything at all?

 

But somehow I always was sure that at some point she would communicate again, and she did. I only was not prepared that it always was with weeks in between. An yes always just to say hello plus a few sentences.

 

It would be hard to handle weeks in between. I'm not sure yet if he'll start texting semi-regularly, weeks in between, or never again. The style of our texting exchange was same as it's always been, at least. It's always been short, and we always just ask how each other are, or ask what each other are doing. He asked what I was doing, and told me what he was doing.

 

You know even when you do not want it, it raises hope, it just does.

 

I know I realized last night that it had risen hopes, as I couldn't sleep and my mind kept creating all kinds of elaborate daydreams/fantasies about where this could lead. I guess that's totally normal. I do recognize what I'm doing though, with the false hopes, so I think I can keep it under reign and not actually expect anything.

 

 

I'm going to have to try really hard not to text him first at all. If he reaches out again, great, but if he doesn't, I'm probably going to have an urge to do so myself. I have to fight it and make sure I don't, because if I do, he'll know he still has me wrapped around his little finger. People tend to take advantage of having the upper hand, and I'm not going to give him that power again. So the plan is to just do *nothing* and mirror his tone/behavior if he does come around again. And work on my own self in the meantime - truly.

[Itspointless]

And work on my own self in the meantime - truly.

Read that latest book I recommended by the psychologists Young and Klosko. I think you will know which chapters to read.