I believe God controls everything

[endlessabyss]

 

• baseless
  
• logically incoherent
  
• resembling other myths in a striking manner
  
• appealing to basic human emotions (see above)
  
• designed to trick the mind of the uncritical (marketing, very human)
  

 

 

I was fooled when reading this at first lol. I thought this list was in reference to atheism!

[autumnnight]

I think the big element that is hard to grasp sometimes - or just denigrated because it can appear weak depending on which lens one chooses to use - is faith.

 

Growing up I pretty much accepted whatever I was told/taught without a question. It was really based more on my faith in my parents and ministers than actual understanding. Then because I had not really "lived life" much I just took what I read in the Bible without question.

 

When I hit my 30's I had various occasion to really really question a lot of things. I did what some people consider unthinkable and got downright angry at God. A lot. I read God's Word differently so I could parse out what HE actually said in context instead of what someone else told me. It's amazing how many opinions you can have when you take this verse or that verse with no context.

 

There is no way I could lay out everything in my life and prove to someone that God did this or that. What I see as evidence others would see as coincidence, luck, fate, etc. All I know is what I firmly believe: that God is the "prime mover" in everything and created us to have a relationship with us. WE screwed that up by choosing to sin, and THAT is really the root of the chaos we see now. When I was assaulted, for example, it wasn't because God wanted me to be hurt. It was because the man who did it was sinful. Why didn't God stop it? I do not know. It is funny. I have a friend whose child had a very bad heart problem, and she almost died. They prayed, the surgery was successful, and they thank God that she lived and fully recovered. I have another friend whose child had the same issue, the surgery worked, and this child's parent became an atheist because God allowed his child to become so sick.

 

I believe God is all knowing, so He knows who will trust Him. I believe God's ultimate will WILL be done, but I don't think that means micromanaging. In other words, I believe that while God's will regarding the direction of our country will ultimately be done, I don't think He much cares who will win the Superbowl.

 

As far as universality goes, if all paths really do lead to God then I can't really have any faith in or respect for Jesus because He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life." So if He isn't, then He lied, and who wants to put their faith in a liar?

 

It may seem simplistic. It may seem inconsistent when set up against my IQ, education, etc. But like the hymn says: My faith has found a resting place, not in device nor creed. I trust the Ever Living One; His wounds for me shall plead. I need no other argument, I need know other plea. It is enough that Jesus died and that He died for me.

 

BTW, Jeremiah 29:11 has always been one of my favorite veerses.

[M30USA]

Your religiosity tells me otherwise.

 

That is ridiculous. We're not debating the existence of Berlin, or of oranges in Florida. We are not on the fence on a great number of things. Most people are not on the fence on whether superman exists. You are not on the fence whether Allah exists as the one and only god as he is ultimatively and completely described in the koran. Of course no one is really following the view that all things are equally likely to exist or not to exist.

 

 

 

1. Innocent until proven guilty. Again, those making the claim (A is a murderer!) have to back their claim up. The law requires no one to prove his innocence
   
2. Just because sometimes it's very easy to prove that someone simply can't be the murderer it doesn't mean that that's what every suspect has to - or even can - do
   

 

Prove to me that Zeus does not exist!

 

It's beautiful what you did here. You give me an opportunity to explain why courts and science, and successful business btw, work in a completely different manner: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If your neighbor tells you he needs your help to unearth a diamond of the size of a swimming pool you will likely ask him to back up his existence claim with something very credible, before you start digging a deep hole. Am I right?

 

What you did by asking me to prove that god doesn't exist, and with your court example, is to ask me to disprove your claim. It never works like that. No one disproved the theory of the Ether, it was just never found, it has no value as an explanation for physical phenomena. The theory that being possessed by the devil causes fever wasn't disproven. It's just completely irrelevant in medicine. No one disproved the theory of a flat earth. It just turned out that the earth is spheric (and Eratosthenes determined this as early as 250 BC).

 

 

Superman doesn't exist, do you agree? I say all your reasons for god's existence are

 

• baseless
  
• logically incoherent
  
• resembling other myths in a striking manner (which comes as no surprise if gods are indeed a man made fiction)
  
• appealing to basic human emotions (see above)
  
• designed to trick the mind of the uncritical (marketing, very human)
  

 

It is thus a pretty safe bet to assume there's no god. And if there's a god, it has nothing to do with what you (and all other believers) deem to be relevant and accurate descriptions of god. Thus it is a safe bet to ignore all currently existing religious claims.

 

In everyday language we say "god doesn't exist". What we mean is that the existence claims for the gods of the currently existing religions have no real world evidence to back them up. It doesn't mean I can prove that nowhere in the whole universe none of those gods exists.

 

Buddy, you're just rehashing the age old debate. Nothing new here. Past philosophers have said all you (and I) have said here and more, as well as followed up with retorts to each other. Anyone here who is interested needs only buy an introductory book to classical philosophy. Have a good one, friend.

[endlessabyss]

Buddy, you're just rehashing the age old debate. Nothing new here. Past philosophers have said all you (and I) have said here and more, as well as followed up with retorts to each other. Anyone here who is interested needs only buy an introductory book to classical philosophy. Have a good one, friend.

 

I was about to post the same. Everything he said was unoriginal.

 

 

Not to discount what he typed, because obviously he is passionate about his beliefs, but there isn't anything new.

 

 

Zeus, the false equivocation of superman with Jesus, etc. etc.

 

 

You have two choices: We were created by God or we are a product of chance.

 

 

Everyone posting here has given this great thought, and has made their mind up. There really is no need to argue about it.

[umirano]

Buddy, you're just rehashing the age old debate. Nothing new here. Past philosophers have said all you (and I) have said here and more, as well as followed up with retorts to each other. Anyone here who is interested needs only buy an introductory book to classical philosophy. Have a good one, friend.

 

I see you are not addressing a single point I have raised. Does that mean, for example, that you agree that existence and non-existence are generally not equally likely, contrary to what you posted above?

[autumnnight]

This is one question I have always wanted to ask. I have friends who are atheists and even though we sometimes talk in kind of a theoretical general way about God I do not try to convince them or beat them with a Bible or sneak tracts into their pockets So why do some people insist on picking apart and breaking down others' faith? I mean for most people who have faith it is an important part of who they are, it gives them hope, it has seen them through dark times, etc. Why be so bullheadedly cruel as to want to take that away just to make some point or "win"? Why not just let people be?

 

And before anyone says "because they won't let me be" you do realize that that kind of statement sounds like what second graders say when they get into trouble for hitting someone and they whine "well she called me stupid first!"

[endlessabyss]

This is one question I have always wanted to ask. I have friends who are atheists and even though we sometimes talk in kind of a theoretical general way about God I do not try to convince them or beat them with a Bible or sneak tracts into their pockets So why do some people insist on picking apart and breaking down others' faith? I mean for most people who have faith it is an important part of who they are, it gives them hope, it has seen them through dark times, etc. Why be so bullheadedly cruel as to want to take that away just to make some point or "win"? Why not just let people be?

 

And before anyone says "because they won't let me be" you do realize that that kind of statement sounds like what second graders say when they get into trouble for hitting someone and they whine "well she called me stupid first!"

 

 

It's a pride issue.

[autumnnight]

It's a pride issue.

 

Ah, so a person's pride is wrapped up in making sure they tear away as much of another person's belief and hope as possible while deriding them?

 

Sounds like a really nice person...not.

[BC1980]

Ah, so a person's pride is wrapped up in making sure they tear away as much of another person's belief and hope as possible while deriding them?

 

Sounds like a really nice person...not.

 

Sounds like a lot of people I know, probably many of us at some point in time. The initial question concerned why people deride others beliefs, and the answer isn't very deep. Everyone sees things through their own life experiences and their own interpretations, and most of us want to be "right" or maybe just more correct than anyone else. So it's often necessary to tear down others beliefs in an attempt to prop up our own. In general, human beings are usually pretty self-centered. We see things how we want to see them and are very interested in how things affect us. That all sounds so negative, but I feel it's the truth.

[BC1980]

And before anyone says "because they won't let me be" you do realize that that kind of statement sounds like what second graders say when they get into trouble for hitting someone and they whine "well she called me stupid first!"

 

You know, as times goes on, I truly believe that we are often very immature in our thought patterns and reactions. I think it takes a great deal of effort to be mature and more thoughtful about how we behave, and we often simply don't want to make that effort. We are really just like overgrown children, jumping from one emotional response to the next. Nice, isn't it.

[endlessabyss]

Ah, so a person's pride is wrapped up in making sure they tear away as much of another person's belief and hope as possible while deriding them?

 

Sounds like a really nice person...not.

 

 

Their pride is wrapped up in their perceived intelligence.

[autumnnight]

Their pride is wrapped up in their perceived intelligence.

 

So one who does not believe in God is ACTUALLY intelligent, and one who believes in God only PERCEIVES themselves as intelligent.

[BC1980]

So one who does not believe in God is ACTUALLY intelligent, and one who believes in God only PERCEIVES themselves as intelligent.

 

I think at the very least, we have to consider the possibility. It goes both ways though. Anyone claiming that they are correct and have it all figured out (religious or non-religious), is basically claiming that they have some special intelligence that the rest of us don't. That they have some type of understanding that the rest of the population doesn't possess. The reality is that our beliefs are heavily colored by our childhood, experiences, and culture. Not because our beliefs are "more right" than someone else.

 

I think we have to consider the idea that humans created God, and, in effect, religion, in an attempt to explain what simply is (or was in some cases) unexplainable. We are a prideful bunch. We always feel like we MUST have an explanation to everything, and most of us don't like to have our egos hurt.

[autumnnight]

I think at the very least, we have to consider the possibility. It goes both ways though. Anyone claiming that they are correct and have it all figured out (religious or non-religious), is basically claiming that they have some special intelligence that the rest of us don't. That they have some type of understanding that the rest of the population doesn't possess. The reality is that our beliefs are heavily colored by our childhood, experiences, and culture. Not because our beliefs are "more right" than someone else.

 

I think we have to consider the idea that humans created God, and, in effect, religion, in an attempt to explain what simply is (or was in some cases) unexplainable. We are a prideful bunch. We always feel like we MUST have an explanation to everything, and most of us don't like to have our egos hurt.

 

I do not know everything. Not even close. But I do know what my IQ is, what my skills are, what my degrees are in, and what I am capable of doing well. If someone did an objective assessment of my intelligence they'd be stuck in a conundrum because I believe in God AND am objectively highly intelligent. That said, I do not claim to have all of the answers to all of the questions. I have had more than one crisis of faith and have both intellectually and Biblically rejected some of the stuff I was handed growing up.

 

If I die tomorrow and find out there is nothing else, I have no regrets. The faith I have has assisted me in living a life I can be proud of. And if I ma right and my faith IS real....then I've got a pretty darn excellent eternity coming. Not because of me but because of Him.

 

It used to be extremely important to me that people understand I am smart and rational and worthwhile even if they do not believe the way I do. I have since learned that people will either choose to respect differences or they won't, and that choice has very little to do with me.

 

It is fun to meet someone in real life though and see the shock in their eyes when I have all my teeth and am not handling snakes

[BC1980]

I do not know everything. Not even close. But I do know what my IQ is, what my skills are, what my degrees are in, and what I am capable of doing well. If someone did an objective assessment of my intelligence they'd be stuck in a conundrum because I believe in God AND am objectively highly intelligent. That said, I do not claim to have all of the answers to all of the questions. I have had more than one crisis of faith and have both intellectually and Biblically rejected some of the stuff I was handed growing up.

 

If I die tomorrow and find out there is nothing else, I have no regrets. The faith I have has assisted me in living a life I can be proud of. And if I ma right and my faith IS real....then I've got a pretty darn excellent eternity coming. Not because of me but because of Him.

 

It used to be extremely important to me that people understand I am smart and rational and worthwhile even if they do not believe the way I do. I have since learned that people will either choose to respect differences or they won't, and that choice has very little to do with me.

 

It is fun to meet someone in real life though and see the shock in their eyes when I have all my teeth and am not handling snakes

 

I don't think it takes a lot of intelligence to believe in Christianity. If anything, it has been a huge hindrance as far as my beliefs are concerned. Not saying I'm all that intelligent, just that as I went further into formal education, the less believable it became to me on a purely logical level.

 

I believe based on feeling and emotion. Mostly at least. I have received a lot from my involvement with the church that I would otherwise not have.

[autumnnight]

You are right, it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to believe in Christ. it takes faith. However, having faith does not preclude intelligence.