Jehovah's Witnesses and my Wife

[Davey L]

I'm not sure if this is the right place or not.

 

My wife and I are (were) Christian, her RC, me CofE. But in the last couple of years she has been befriended by JW's. Now she tells me she wants to join them.

 

I'm not a JW bashed. In fact, from a secular point of view I have some sympathy for the way they have at times been treated.

 

My concern is that their beliefs are contrary to Christianity. If they are to be believed then I am not a saved person. But to my belief then if she joins them she has turned away from Christianity and she is not saved.

 

My worries are that:

1. It will cause difficulties between us as she is drawn away from me and starts to think of me as a lower person than herself

2. That our immortal souls will be separated for all eternity; even if I am right and go to heaven it will be without my wife.

 

I don't know how to handle it. It feels wrong to flatly forbid her to join them.

 

Has anyone else had experience of this? Did it cause marriage problems? Did you manage to persuade your wife or husband not to join? If so, how?

[M30USA]

I'm going to get a lot of flack for this and probably get called sexist (so be it), but the easiest crack through which the devil can deceive a family is through the wife. For those Christians who disagree, just look at Adam and Eve. Ever wonder why they don't befriend HUSBANDS first? They intentionally come at times when husbands are at work and SAHMs are all alone. Hmm, sounds familiar.

 

You need to sit your wife down and, assuming you know the Bible well enough, say to her: "Now, let's go through every single teaching of these JWs and, one at a time, find Scripture to prove they are all dead wrong."

 

The problem is that the social aspect of relationships bleed into theology. They mistake a good friendship for sound doctrine. This is an area where you need to step up and be in charge. Satan is a wolf that prowls around your family, looking for anyone he can devour.

Edited November 26, 2014 by M30USA

[whichwayisup]

My wife and I are (were) Christian, her RC, me CofE. But in the last couple of years she has been befriended by JW's. Now she tells me she wants to join them.

 

This isn't good. And yes it will cause problems as time goes on. JW's will separate her from you, other friends, family members or anybody else who doesn't embrace their views and lifestyle. She is on the way of being brainwashed.

[Davey L]

I'm going to get a lot of flack for this and probably get called sexist (so be it), but the easiest crack through which the devil can deceive a family is through the wife. For those Christians who disagree, just look at Adam and Eve. Ever wonder why they don't befriend HUSBANDS first? They intentionally come at times when husbands are at work and SAHMs are all alone. Hmm, sounds familiar.

 

You need to sit your wife down and, assuming you know the Bible well enough, say to her: "Now, let's go through every single teaching of these JWs and, one at a time, find Scripture to prove they are all dead wrong."

 

The problem is that the social aspect of relationships bleed into theology. They mistake a good friendship for sound doctrine. This is an area where you need to step up and be in charge. Satan is a wolf thuat prowls around your family, looking for anyone he can devour.

 

Thank you. My problem in talking to her is that I do not have a deep understanding of theology or scripture. People would not describe me as a deeply religious man although I do have my faith. I do not feel capable of competing with th JW's knowledge and training to be able to refute their teaching.

 

I spoke to our chaplain at work and he has been very helpful in giving me information. I will also try to get in touch with the RC priest from before who I know my wife respects very much and see if he is prepared to talk to her. He moved away some years ago but I am hoping that I can find him through the church.

 

I feel responsible for this as my wife became a bit lonely after we moved to a new city for my work a couple of years ago and I think they took advantage of her loneliness.

[Davey L]

This isn't good. And yes it will cause problems as time goes on. JW's will separate her from you, other friends, family members or anybody else who doesn't embrace their views and lifestyle. She is on the way of being brainwashed.

 

I have felt a bit of distance between us over the past year. I don't know if it is this; there could be any number of reasons. But it's been worrying me. If I can persuade her to attend Mass sat RC church with me I'd happily convert to RC myself so that we can be together in faith. That wouldn't be too big a deal for me (I'm Church of England and tend towards the more high church, catholic, beliefs anyway)

[dreamingoftigers]

This isn't good. And yes it will cause problems as time goes on. JW's will separate her from you, other friends, family members or anybody else who doesn't embrace their views and lifestyle. She is on the way of being brainwashed.

 

OKay, I hate to just be contrary here.

 

I am a Mormon in actuality. I often hear the same things about my church. "Brainwashed, separate families" blar de blar. Add in "polygamous" for my particular faith and there you have it.

 

But before I was a Mormon, I was with Jehovah's Witnesses for two years. In the end, it was going through the bible with a Biblical Scholar that separated me from the false beliefs. Other than that I can honestly say that they did not "brainwash" me or separate me from my family.

 

Truly, they are a much more insular faith than most. I do not think it would be healthy to raise a child in a faith so 'insulated from the world.' However, I did not experience extreme social pressures and Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely value marriage and family. The only acceptable reason for a divorce in the Witness faith is adultery. Not abuse, not a difference of religion or nasty arguments. Adultery. That is it.

 

The are definite easy ways to be supportive of a Jehovah's Witness spouse, there are also things that would take a major adjustment for some people. Some people really value Christmas/Birthdays etc. Your wife most likely would not be participating in these things.

 

Do you have children? If so, I have lots of suggestions as my husband was also raised Jehovah's Witness and my in-laws are still active Witnesses.

 

As for your eternal soul being separated from your wife:

 

There are many scenarios of a spouse becoming a sanctifying spouse to the unbelieving one. One is when two unbelievers (an unbeliever is someone who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection - usually such a person exhibit fruit of the flesh. An unbeliever could also be a religious person that attend church services) marry, and some years down the line, one accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and savior and the other spouse do not. Another scenario is when two believers marry and one of them decides to abandon Christ for another faith (or denomination with another truth other than Christ) or become an atheist.

 

Believing spouses with the same values and principles turn to the Bible as their guide and the tool for their marriage and for raising their family, however, when one of the spouses is an unbeliever, the guide book and tools (principles) become a little difficult as both party have different ideology on marriage and for raising the family.

 

Understanding "Sanctification"

 

"Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives"

Apostle Peter (Friend and Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth)

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you. My problem in talking to her is that I do not have a deep understanding of theology or scripture. People would not describe me as a deeply religious man although I do have my faith. I do not feel capable of competing with th JW's knowledge and training to be able to refute their teaching.

 

I spoke to our chaplain at work and he has been very helpful in giving me information. I will also try to get in touch with the RC priest from before who I know my wife respects very much and see if he is prepared to talk to her. He moved away some years ago but I am hoping that I can find him through the church.

 

I feel responsible for this as my wife became a bit lonely after we moved to a new city for my work a couple of years ago and I think they took advantage of her loneliness.

 

Oh Jeez.

 

They didn't "take advantage of her lonliness."

They believe that they have a message that saves people and they are compelled to share it with anyone that is interested in listening and potentially fellowshipping with them. They aren't trying to pay attention to her long enough to steal her banking information.

 

Unfortunately, very few of the Catholic and Mainstream Christian leaders tend to have a thorough understanding of church doctrines outside of their own either. They can list 10,000 reasons as to why "their doctrine works" but usually about 0, within context, as to why there are flaws in a different church's doctrine. Unfortunately again, many people don't use their listening ears to find out about other belief systems without internally and externally rejecting it before considering it.

 

Have you asked your wife what attracts her to this faith? Why she has been taken with this one in particular? And what she might feel is lacking with her own current faith?

 

The fact that you are reaching toward "Forbidding" it tells me that you aren't interested in listening to her perspective (and possibly that loneliness you cite as a cause for her meeting with them) as much as you are interested in listening to your raw fear, without considering what your place would be in her life if she does become a JW.

 

As someone married to a man who was raised JW, it has been a historical concern that he would decide to return to the Kingdom Hall. I had to accept that as a potential. Stressful. But then again, marriage was not entirely a pleasure cruise anyhow. Everyone has issues, questions, baggage and poor behaviour in some form.

 

Even if my husband did decide at this point to return the Kingdom Hall, I know that we would both be a part of faiths that value marriage and family. The rest is details and encumberances to be worked out.

 

My father is a Catholic, my mother is an Athiest. I am a Mormon.

 

My family argues about everything under the Sun. Our relationships are terrible. However, for some unknown reason, that is the one argument we have NEVER had. Even my parents in all of their unreasonable rantings and strangeness know that what someone believes as a faith can be respected without it being a personal issue. If your wife believes in the witness faith, forbidding her to partake in it would only show that you don't care what she inherently believes, so long as your beliefs could be satisfied. That is insanely controlling.

 

Her relationship with her Heavenly Father is her business. You can't command her beliefs out of her or triangulate the rest of the world against her to get her to shift back to Catholicism because "you're the husband." She will think what she thinks and feel what she feels regardless. Even if she does co-operate with your "forbidding."

 

And who is to say that even if she does co-operate, that you don't get struck by a Semi while crossing the street tomorrow. Then she goes back to the Witnesses, and your potential fear could still be realized. She would be a different faith and if you were correct, she wouldn't join you in the afterlife.

 

Dear confused husband, your best weapon here is your ears and your empathy. She most likely won't listen to one iota of any reasoning from the scriptures until she thinks you actually care about what she thinks and believes anyhow. Until then, it just looks like a personal agenda you are shoving at her.

[Davey L]

Dreamingoftigers, thank you for another viewpoint on this. I value anyone's experience with this both positive and negative; I want to understand what might or might not happen here.

 

Our children have long since grown up and left home. Both were raised Catholic and continue with that, so there is no problem in terms of raising children any more. It's just about my wife and I.

[Davey L]

Dreamingoftigers, thank you for another viewpoint on this. I value anyone's experience with this both positive and negative; I want to understand what might or might not happen here.

 

Our children have long since grown up and left home. Both were raised Catholic and continue with that, so there is no problem in terms of raising children any more. It's just about my wife and I.

 

Oh and I forgot to add - I have no intention of trying to forbid her to join them; that would be very wrong of me. She is free to believe what she will, I can't force beliefs upon her.

[Arieswoman]

Davey L,

JW's are not Christian so you need to nip this in the bud now.

 

I would make an appointment to see the local RC priest and discuss this with him. He will be able to help you with the theology.

 

In the mean time ;-

 

Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

[evanescentworld]

And this whole thread is precisely why Buddhism resonates so much with me.

 

Amazing that so many different sectors of society purporting to be Christian followers of God can be at such odds with one another, to the point of mistrust, hostility and even ostracsim.....

[M30USA]

And this whole thread is precisely why Buddhism resonates so much with me.

 

Amazing that so many different sectors of society purporting to be Christian followers of God can be at such odds with one another, to the point of mistrust, hostility and even ostracsim.....

 

Your comment is irrelevant to reality. Truth is truth, regardless what you call it. Are mathematicians "at odds with each other" for discussing the correct solution to a problem? Only if they're throwing punches, I suppose. I wouldn't go converting to Buddhism over it, though.

[M30USA]

JW's are entitled to their opinion, just like everyone, but it's important to understand exactly what they believe, since they do not come out and say it directly.

 

The critical issue is the identity of Jesus Christ. After getting entangled in a web of debates, the end result is that JWs believe Jesus is NOT God. They will use the term "son of God", yes, but they have an entirely different definition of that. He is not equal to God in their definition. He was created BY God. He is equivalent to an angel (such as Michael).

 

The problem with this view is that John chapter 1 clearly refutes it. Paraphrased: The Word, Jesus, was with God in the beginning and WAS God. Through the Word all things were made. Without him, nothing has been made that has been made.

 

Jesus is NOT part of creation. JWs say he is. Big issue here. It may sound like a small issue, yet if it's just semantics, why did Jesus repeatedly ask, "Who do you say that I am?" Obviously it's not just an opinion. Somehow it affects our very being and eternal destiny. It was so important that Paul said to deny Christ's true identity as God is to possess the spirit of antichrist. Wow!

Edited November 26, 2014 by M30USA

[taiko]

For most the problem is more social than theological since strict Jehovah Witnesses are limited to what they can do such as birthday celebrations or attend the funerals and weddings outside of a Kingdom Hall. I have posted before among my primary family, many in what the Catholic Church would call mixed marriages are, Agnostics, Baptist, Methodist, Catholics, Pentecostal, various of the smaller Protestant denominations or Charismatic leaning nondenominational. Muslim , the Nation of Islam and it is the one sister who became a Jehovah Witness who has limited contact with the rest of the family.

[evanescentworld]

Your comment is irrelevant to reality.

On the contrary. My post reflects reality.

 

Truth is truth, regardless what you call it.

Your 'truth' and my 'truth' are two completely different tangents. Until proven, neither is Truth. They're just PoVs.

 

Are mathematicians "at odds with each other" for discussing the correct solution to a problem?

Maths cannot be compared to religion. For a start, Maths can show its workings and how such conclusions were arrived at. Ultimately, depending on the sum given, all answers will show the same total.

 

Only if they're throwing punches, I suppose.

No need, if try all arrive at the same conclusion. Why throw piunches when all can demonstrate the same result?

 

I wouldn't go converting to Buddhism over it, though

.

Horses for courses. Obviously Christianity doesn't float my boat in the same way it does for you.

And that's OK.

If you enjoy theological sparring, go right ahead.

me, I find it tedious and pointless, as no logical, hard-and-fast, universally-effective PoV, exists.

[M30USA]

Evanescent, have you studied philosophical concepts either academically or leisurely? What you're proposing is called Solipsism. It's the basic concept behind postmodernism and it's so rampant in our culture that most people cant even recognize it. There are some serious logical problems associated with this view. You should check into it.

Edited November 26, 2014 by M30USA

[xxoo]

Some Christian denominations teach that accepting Jesus is the path to heaven. I think jw accept Jesus, so your souls will be together.

 

I can't imagine god is excluding those who got the details wrong.

[M30USA]

Some Christian denominations teach that accepting Jesus is the path to heaven. I think jw accept Jesus, so your souls will be together.

 

I can't imagine god is excluding those who got the details wrong.

 

What if the "details" are determined as a result of the spirit one posseses? In other words, if a person has the true Spirit, he or she will, as a result, know exactly who Christ is; whereas if he or she possess a false spirit, that spirit will direct them to a false understanding of who Christ is. You might have the cause and effect reversed. Just a thing to consider. Our views do not determine our salvation. They are merely a reflection of what's already in there.

 

And what do you mean everyone "accepts" Jesus? The Muslims "accept" Jesus. They just happen to believe Jesus will bow to the 12th Imam.

Edited November 26, 2014 by M30USA

[evanescentworld]

Evanescent, have you studied philosophical concepts either academically or leisurely? What you're proposing is called Solipsism.

Erm... where have I proposed that, specifically? Could you be more detailed? The concept wasn't even on the table until you mentioned it. It's probably not a good idea to put words into others' mouths...

 

It's the basic concept behind postmodernism and it's so rampant in our culture that most people cant even recognize it.

Psycho-babble. What do you mean by 'postmodernism'? Flashing big words around doesn't make you 'more right'. You're just confusing the issue, and, I might add, taking this thread even more off-topic...

 

There are some serious logical problems associated with this view. You should check into it.

Why? Who says I hold that view, anyway?

[xxoo]

 

And what do you mean everyone "accepts" Jesus? The Muslims "accept" Jesus. They just happen to believe Jesus will bow to the 12th Imam.

 

Accept Jesus as your lord and savior.

 

That was the teaching I learned. That was the part that mattered.

[Davey L]

Oops! I didn't mean to start a big argument about pros and cons of different religions.

 

I was just a bit concerned about it, unsure as to where it would leave us as a couple, not clear if it was a problem or not and of it was then what to do about it.

 

If my wife truly believes their teaching after seeing it from both sides then I will have to accept it. I certainly have no intention of trying to forbid her from joining them. However I would like to ensure she is given every opportunity to rejoin her Christian faith.

 

To try to make a faith decision for someone else, when their eternal soul is at stake, would require a very brave or very stupid man. I am neither.

 

If she is driven to them by loneliness after moving home then that is my fault and I will work hard to fix it.

[M30USA]

Erm... where have I proposed that, specifically? Could you be more detailed? The concept wasn't even on the table until you mentioned it. It's probably not a good idea to put words into others' mouths...

 

 

Psycho-babble. What do you mean by 'postmodernism'? Flashing big words around doesn't make you 'more right'. You're just confusing the issue, and, I might add, taking this thread even more off-topic...

 

 

Why? Who says I hold that view, anyway?

 

Speaking of "psycho-babble", you misused that word.

 

My interpretion of your posts was that you believe all worldviews and philosophies are equally valid. This is the logical end point of Solipsism. Am I wrong for assuming you hold this view? If so, please correct me.

 

Btw, terms exist in the world so that communication is easier. Language, itself, is for this reason. I didn't intend to use "big words".

[M30USA]

Oops! I didn't mean to start a big argument about pros and cons of different religions.

 

I was just a bit concerned about it, unsure as to where it would leave us as a couple, not clear if it was a problem or not and of it was then what to do about it.

 

If my wife truly believes their teaching after seeing it from both sides then I will have to accept it. I certainly have no intention of trying to forbid her from joining them. However I would like to ensure she is given every opportunity to rejoin her Christian faith.

 

To try to make a faith decision for someone else, when their eternal soul is at stake, would require a very brave or very stupid man. I am neither.

 

If she is driven to them by loneliness after moving home then that is my fault and I will work hard to fix it.

 

Ultimately your wife decides what she believes, yes. But you still have a big influence. Remember two things: 1) Eve was deceived while Adam was away from her and, implicitly, not watching over her. 2) What Eve believed wound up bringing Adam down with her, either because of his love for her or just logical inevitability.

[evanescentworld]

Ultimately your wife decides what she believes, yes. But you still have a big influence. Remember two things: 1) Eve was deceived while Adam was away from her and, implicitly, not watching over her. 2) What Eve believed wound up bringing Adam down with her, either because of his love for her or just logical inevitability.

That's if you believe that little fantasy, which in any case, has been widely accepted as a fairy tale to try to explain how life on earth began. It's just a story, nothing more.

And it's typical of Biblical bias against women, in that obviously, it's all the woman's fault things went belly-up.

 

Don't forget that Goddesses were hailed as superior to men, once upon a time, and that Mary, as Christ's mother, apparently never put a foot wrong. In fact, she and Mary Magdalene played a much bigger part in the story iof Christ than Church leaders - both past and present - are willing to acknowledge. Women still draw the short straw when it comes to their roles in Religious leanings.

 

So let's not steer this down the "women are weak-willed, impressionable and fickle creatures who do nothing but create a world of hurt, if not kept in check" route.

[evanescentworld]

Speaking of "psycho-babble", you misused that word

.

That's your opinion.

 

My interpretion of your posts was that you believe all worldviews and philosophies are equally valid.

No, I don't believe that, in the slightest. You're taking 2 + 2 and making 87....

 

This is the logical end point of Solipsism.

No it isn't, not necessarily. Solipsism is, and I quote an online dictionary, is -

 

The view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.

 

Am I wrong for assuming you hold this view? If so, please correct me.

Yes, you're wrong. And if you presume that this is the central tenet of Buddhism, you have miuch to learn.

 

Btw, terms exist in the world so that communication is easier. Language, itself, is for this reason. I didn't intend to use "big words".

...But you did, anyway. You still haven't explained what you meant by 'postmodernism'....