Jehovah's Witnesses and my Wife

[pie2]

Might as well just fight for you and your wife. She's YOUR wife and not somebody else's.

 

I think the true fight is won through prayer, OP. Doctrinal arguments might inspire others once in awhile, but the real power is found in prayer.

 

I pray that both you and your wife find true freedom in Christ Alone, recognizing his great sacrifice for us, and realizing that His love is all we really need in life. Nothing else can compare. Nothing else is can satisfy.

[BC1980]

Ah...so the truth comes out. Turns out life won't be all peachy keen with everyone's views equally respected. Such is the story with the tolerance garbage. You tolerate another religion, then it doesn't tolerate YOU in response. As I always say: there is no neutral ground in this world. Even the "coexist" people, if given authority, will stuff their views down your throat. Might as well just fight for you and your wife. She's YOUR wife and not somebody else's.

 

Based on my experience, I would not call JWs tolerant. I'm sure some are, but they are so isolated from anyone who is not a JW that I find it difficult to believe they are tolerant. They usually hold very strong beliefs about non-believers going to hell and being wrong about anything that is not based on their doctrine. I'm sure someone else mentioned that they don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, and that fact alone would be a problem if married to someone who does celebrate those things. I believe they have their own translation of the Bible, as well.

 

OP, I'm sorry you are going through this, as I have certainly seen the devastation caused by JWs in my own family. If she converts, I think it will likely lead to divorce or a miserable situation for you if you stay married. Ultimately, it is her choice, and she has free will. We are all entitled to our beliefs, but JWs are generally not tolerant of other beliefs.

[BC1980]

I think the true fight is won through prayer, OP. Doctrinal arguments might inspire others once in awhile, but the real power is found in prayer.

I pray that both you and your wife find true freedom in Christ Alone, recognizing his great sacrifice for us, and realizing that His love is all we really need in life. Nothing else can compare. Nothing else is can satisfy.

 

If I remember correctly, JW have their own translation of the Bible, so they might use that in a doctrinal argument. They also some interesting interpretations of Revelation. I think you would be hard pressed to win a doctrinal argument with a JW. They seem to train for these battles.

[pureinheart]

Based on my experience, I would not call JWs tolerant. I'm sure some are, but they are so isolated from anyone who is not a JW that I find it difficult to believe they are tolerant. They usually hold very strong beliefs about non-believers going to hell and being wrong about anything that is not based on their doctrine. I'm sure someone else mentioned that they don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, and that fact alone would be a problem if married to someone who does celebrate those things. I believe they have their own translation of the Bible, as well.

 

OP, I'm sorry you are going through this, as I have certainly seen the devastation caused by JWs in my own family. If she converts, I think it will likely lead to divorce or a miserable situation for you if you stay married. Ultimately, it is her choice, and she has free will. We are all entitled to our beliefs, but JWs are generally not tolerant of other beliefs.

 

Man...and nonbelievers communicate almost on a regular basis that Christianity is confining. Looking from the POV of a nonbeliever there are certain things that would feelconfining, although I think there are a few other faiths that are ridiculous, yet when the subject is brought up, one gets a dog pile of comments (mostly hateful) concerning Christianity and 'crickets' concerning all other faiths. This lets me know I am definitely on the right track.

 

This is my complaint, and do complain about this fact a lot on these boards.

 

OP- I agree 100% with BC (last paragraph) concerning your situation. I've seen a lot in my day and BC summed it up.

 

I do realize my God can do anything, although BC's statement was penetrating and I bore a witness (not a JW 'witness') ... I'll definitely lift you up for wisdom, knowledge and understanding... let His will be done- Amen.

[pureinheart]

In John 14, Jesus was telling the disciples they would receive the Holy Spirit, not that they were God. And the things they would do be used to testify about Jesus, not to seek their own glory. These actions can be reviewed in the book of Acts, in which Peter is imprisoned for testifying Christ. Recall what Jesus said, that the one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.

 

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

 

God the father was in heaven. God the Father testified from heaven of Jesus during his baptism. The gospels show how this is entirely consistent:

 

And when Jesus was baptized (*notice this occurred when Jesus was physically on the earth), immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

 

He went through it for US. He did not need to die for sin; it was for this reason, His sacrifice can count for us.

 

God is a God of Justice. He cannot just overlook sin. God is a judge. Can a a human judge let a murderer go without paying for their crime? Sure, some do and we call them corrupt for letting a criminal go that is guilty. God is just and there is no darkness or shadow of turning in Him.

 

The Word became a human being and dwelt among us. John the Baptist said Jesus was greater than Him because He existed before he (John) was born. Consider this from hearing the prophet John. John said Christ was greater than him because He (Jesus) existed before he was born; yet, John said Jesus will come after him and his role was to prepare the way for Him (Jesus). So John answers how this is possible for us; Jesus was before John, yet his ministry came after his.

 

The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son. John spoke about him. He cried out, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘He comes after me, but he is greater than I am, because he existed before I was born.’”

 

John answered them, I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know, even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.”

 

TFW- I want to say that there is a serious anointing on these words...wow, when reading it I got taken up per se- big time...

[dreamingoftigers]

Based on my experience, I would not call JWs tolerant. I'm sure some are, but they are so isolated from anyone who is not a JW that I find it difficult to believe they are tolerant. They usually hold very strong beliefs about non-believers going to hell and being wrong about anything that is not based on their doctrine. I'm sure someone else mentioned that they don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, and that fact alone would be a problem if married to someone who does celebrate those things. I believe they have their own translation of the Bible, as well.

 

OP, I'm sorry you are going through this, as I have certainly seen the devastation caused by JWs in my own family. If she converts, I think it will likely lead to divorce or a miserable situation for you if you stay married. Ultimately, it is her choice, and she has free will. We are all entitled to our beliefs, but JWs are generally not tolerant of other beliefs.

 

This is a mismash of some things anecdotal and other things actual and some things inaccurate.

 

Yes, many many many Jehovah's Witnesses are quite isolated.

This is not their doctrine but often their practice.

Some will talk to family outside the faith. Others won't.

My in-laws do. They have tried to push and pull to convert me until we sat down with a Bible one day and played some Scripture Baseball. It was getting to the point of stripping it away from them, but I won't go there. They stopped too. Have not brought it up since.

 

However, they DON'T BELIEVE in HELL. No eternal suffering.

 

They do have their own "translation" of the Bible which is where a lot of slight twistings and variations occur. The New World Translation. One thing of note is where there are square brackets around the words.....these are points that have been added by Bethel. Many Jehovah's Witnesses are not familiar with the source of their Bible Translation. But simply educating them about this will not be enough to turn the tide of someone dedicated enough to joining.

 

Although I will say this, Jehovah's Witnesses are committed to marriage and family.

 

Disfellowshipping as well is reserved for those who have left the faith. It is a disfellowship from the spiritual community, not from a marriage. I.e. Johnny decides to steal from 711 without remorse and does so every chance he gets, so the congregation disfellowships him. His wife decides not to leave him still. Oh well.

 

I fundamentally diagree with the many things and ways that JW disfellowship and the humiliation and damage that it can cause and individual. Just for the record.

 

My husband found growing up Witness to be a crummy experience. He had to wait in the Hall at school when anything holiday related or sex ed related. He wasn't allowed to play with kids that weren't JW, so there was one other kid in town that he could play with and the family was, well, dysfunctional to the point where something really awful happened to him.

 

But truth be told, the JW thing only fuelled what was already there in his mother's attitude toward life and other people. She is VERY controlling and somewhat fanatical. Any religion could have been a disaster. It just happened to be one that made life for him even more isolated.

[Ronni_W]

God is a God of Justice. He cannot just overlook sin. God is a judge.

Actually, Jesus said this:For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5:22)

 

This article, called 'Exposing the graven images of Christ'. There is much to ponder, even after one feels compelled to discount the source.

[M30USA]

Actually, Jesus said this:For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5:22)

 

This article, called 'Exposing the graven images of Christ'. There is much to ponder, even after one feels compelled to discount the source.

 

Read the rest of the verse you quoted. It says, paraphrased, "but leaves all judgment to the Son."

 

The three persons of the trinity all have different roles. This doesn't mean they aren't all God.

[TheFinalWord]

Actually, Jesus said this:For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5:22)

 

This article, called 'Exposing the graven images of Christ'. There is much to ponder, even after one feels compelled to discount the source.

 

Without getting into a deep theological debate...

 

Yes, but I believe Jesus is God

 

I looked briefly at the web site you quoted.

 

I am not really sure what you believe, but I believe you have adopted a New Age interpretation of Christ.

 

The name of the web site is:

 

A 2 year self-study course by ascended master Jesus Christ

 

When I see that, red flags go up. Ascended master? This implies that Jesus needed to reach something higher. Actually, Jesus humbled Himself and left his glory for us. He did not have to do it. It was a sacrifice. There was nothing Christ needed to achieve here on earth for Himself.

 

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

Did Jesus come here to glorify Himself and then teach us how to become ascended masters like him? No.

 

Below is the first 150 pages of "Master Keys to Personal Christhood", a 2 year self-study course by Ascended Master Jesus Christ channelled via spiritual messenger Kim Michaels, who has given permission to release these introductory chapters.

 

Kim, what is the ultimate goal of your gospel?

 

Let me summarize the essence of the path to personal Christhood

 

Paul, what should we do when someone comes along and tries to preach to us a different gospel other than the one preached by the apostles?

 

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[BC1980]

However, they DON'T BELIEVE in HELL. No eternal suffering.

 

Okay, I must have just assumed they meant there was a hell when they said non JWs weren't getting into heaven. Don't they believe only some get into heaven? Even some JWs don't get into heaven?

[Davey L]

Thank you all.

 

I Remain a bit worried. The chaplain at work has lent me a book to read. I will read that this weekend before deciding what if anything I should do. But probably I make appointment to see RC priest. If I can interest my wife in attending RC church I will look at converting to RC myself so we can attend mass together instead of separately.

 

I will also spend a bit more time at home by working from home sometimes instead of working late at work. And take her out a bit more and encourage her to widen her circle of friends.

 

I will also track down the priest who married us who I know she likes and respects, and arrange for us to travel to see him.

 

In everything I will have to tread carefully and of course if she is wholly committed to the JW doctrine I will ultimately have to respect that.

[M30USA]

Davey, just remember that, according to the tolerance and coexist crowd, all worldviews are equally valid and acceptable...except true Christianity. By definition, true Christianity is the only one which does not work synergistically with all other religions. They know this. It's the very reason why Christianity (true Christianity) is the one religion that will be an obstacle for the NWO, the one world government, and the antichrist. Don't be ashamed of your belief. They sure as heck don't respect yours. Let truth win out at all costs.

[BC1980]

Thank you all.

 

I Remain a bit worried. The chaplain at work has lent me a book to read. I will read that this weekend before deciding what if anything I should do. But probably I make appointment to see RC priest. If I can interest my wife in attending RC church I will look at converting to RC myself so we can attend mass together instead of separately.

 

I will also spend a bit more time at home by working from home sometimes instead of working late at work. And take her out a bit more and encourage her to widen her circle of friends.

 

I will also track down the priest who married us who I know she likes and respects, and arrange for us to travel to see him.

 

In everything I will have to tread carefully and of course if she is wholly committed to the JW doctrine I will ultimately have to respect that.

 

Have you talked with your wife about the practical matters of her conversion. Does she hope to convert you? Does she plan not to celebrate holidays? Religion is a major force that can divide a marriage, which is what I worry about for you. Honestly, once someone has made their mind up to follow a certain religion, there's not a darn thing you can do about it. You pushing for her not to convert will likely escalate into more push back from her side.

 

I can't think of a single bit of advice that would keep her from converting. This is her path and her choice. Unfortunately, I feel that your marriage might be the price. This is such an impossible situation. What does her family think about all of this? I really think you need to sit down and talk to your wife about this and air out all of your concerns if you haven't already. BTW, it takes a year to convert to RC, so that's not quick undertaking itself.

[Lula Belle]

Thank you. My problem in talking to her is that I do not have a deep understanding of theology or scripture. People would not describe me as a deeply religious man although I do have my faith. I do not feel capable of competing with th JW's knowledge and training to be able to refute their teaching.

 

I spoke to our chaplain at work and he has been very helpful in giving me information. I will also try to get in touch with the RC priest from before who I know my wife respects very much and see if he is prepared to talk to her. He moved away some years ago but I am hoping that I can find him through the church.

 

I feel responsible for this as my wife became a bit lonely after we moved to a new city for my work a couple of years ago and I think they took advantage of her loneliness.

 

Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum for Jehovahs Witnesses

Facts about JW.org, the Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Truth

Johnny J. Williams Land Surveying

Barbara Anderson - Watchtower Documents LLC - Anything Jehovah's Witnesses Related and More

 

just a few sites to help you do some research about the JW's so you can help keep your wife out of that cult.

[Lula Belle]

Okay, I must have just assumed they meant there was a hell when they said non JWs weren't getting into heaven. Don't they believe only some get into heaven? Even some JWs don't get into heaven?

 

I have personal experience with this religion. And I would never recommend becoming a witness.

 

They will love bomb you at first...meaning they are all so happy to see you and so nice.

Many witnesses are very nice people. I feel they are victims to a high control religion that manipulates emotions and is really a publishing house.

 

Research their history...links to some helpful sites above. They have a history of making false prophesies for the "end of this system of things" many many times. They now teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and selected the Jws in 1919 as God's earthly organization. They see the org as God, though they deny this the way they treat people who leave shows the truth. If someone disagrees with doctrine, they are seen as disagreeing with God.

 

They always talk bad about other religions...Christianity is referred to as false religion, and they love bad talking Catholics. Especially about child sex abuse...which they are currently experiencing their own court cases for hiding child sex abuse and protecting pedophiles...Google Candice conti. Visit silentlambs.org - Welcome

 

Shunning is very real. If you are disfellowshipped or even if you disassociate because you disagree with teachings, you will be shunned. This is the published instruction. A judicial committee of 3 elders will determine if you are disfellowshipped. Parents shun their own kids, and are instructed not to find excuses for contact. It is very sad. They expect members not to have friends outside of the religion...people they refer to as "worldly"

 

Just do some research. Knowing what your up against will help you.

[BC1980]

I have personal experience with this religion. And I would never recommend becoming a witness.

 

They will love bomb you at first...meaning they are all so happy to see you and so nice.

Many witnesses are very nice people. I feel they are victims to a high control religion that manipulates emotions and is really a publishing house.

 

Research their history...links to some helpful sites above. They have a history of making false prophesies for the "end of this system of things" many many times. They now teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and selected the Jws in 1919 as God's earthly organization. They see the org as God, though they deny this the way they treat people who leave shows the truth. If someone disagrees with doctrine, they are seen as disagreeing with God.

 

They always talk bad about other religions...Christianity is referred to as false religion, and they love bad talking Catholics. Especially about child sex abuse...which they are currently experiencing their own court cases for hiding child sex abuse and protecting pedophiles...Google Candice conti. Visit silentlambs.org - Welcome

 

Shunning is very real. If you are disfellowshipped or even if you disassociate because you disagree with teachings, you will be shunned. This is the published instruction. A judicial committee of 3 elders will determine if you are disfellowshipped. Parents shun their own kids, and are instructed not to find excuses for contact. It is very sad. They expect members not to have friends outside of the religion...people they refer to as "worldly"

 

Just do some research. Knowing what your up against will help you.

 

I hate to keep pilling on, but I've seen first hand the destruction caused by this religion. In my experience, they will most definitely shun family members. If you are married, I don't think they will shun you but will likely try to convert you. My great aunt did become more lax as the years went on and attempted some contact with her sister and the rest of us. Unfortunately, the damage was done at that point.

[Lula Belle]

I hate to keep pilling on, but I've seen first hand the destruction caused by this religion. In my experience, they will most definitely shun family members. If you are married, I don't think they will shun you but will likely try to convert you. My great aunt did become more lax as the years went on and attempted some contact with her sister and the rest of us. Unfortunately, the damage was done at that point.

 

As long as you don't get baptized and don't speak badly about the religion. The man is considered the head so you will still have say in some things. But if she is not yet baptized please urge her to review their history.

[taiko]

Okay, I must have just assumed they meant there was a hell when they said non JWs weren't getting into heaven. Don't they believe only some get into heaven? Even some JWs don't get into heaven?

 

Only 144,000 the rest 'the great crowd" are in something like purgatory, those judged not worthy would then go to something like hell.

[Davey L]

Since I posted there have been a couple of developments.

 

I tried to have a discussion with my wife in a non-confrontational way. Basically I just asked her why she wanted to join the JWs, and said that I was a bit worried and had a couple of concerns. However she reacted quite aggressively and said that if it was a problem between us it was because I made it a problem. I backed off as I felt continuing the discussion like this would be counter-productive and decided to let what I said sink in and re-open the discussion in a few days.

 

A few days later she brought it up again. She talked quite a bit but it came down to two things.

1. She is keen on themainly because she likes their approach to life (eg how they tell you to live and behave) and they are friendly and welcoming. She had a couple of bad experiences going to a new RC church and finding it unwelcoming and unfriendly. There doesn't seem to be a fundamental point of doctrine that draws her to them. Also they offer a friendly bible study group which she likes.

 

2. She has suggested that one of them meet me to alleviate any doctrinal concerns I may have. I have agreed to this, not in the expectation that I can "win" any debate with them ( I almost certainly won't!) but to attempt to show openness and to allow any serious doctrinal issues to be brought out clearly for example the birth and resurrection of Christ. And also because she in turn has agreed to attend an RC bible study group, and to meet with our former priest who married us and who she has a high respect for.

 

So all is not yet lost. I will find her a bible study group, encourage her to attend mass and accompany her even though I am not RC, and track down our former priest and arrange a visit.

 

At the end of the day it has to be her decision. I cannot tell her what she should and should not do here. All I can do is try to ensure she gets a balanced and honest view so that her decision is properly informed.

[whichwayisup]

Thanks for the update, though I am concerned as time goes on, the affect of her choosing this religious path way will have your marriage and her priorities.

 

Her aggressive reaction when discussing this is not right. Red flag actually.

[BC1980]

OP, good to hear from you. I'm glad that you attempted to talk to her. Here's what information I can offer from my experiences and from what those in my family experienced. If your wife converts, expect her to aggressively attempt to convert you. Her life will change, and your life will change. It's going to go beyond just a friendly Bible study with some women. That is how they are pulling her in right now. It all seems harmless.

 

As far as the talk (debate) with the church member, they are find tuned for this. They will use semantics and anything else not to come right out and say they are not Christians. They are generally aggressive if you attempt to counter what they say. I would not talk too much during the meeting at all.

 

Again, sorry you are going through this, and I wish you the best.

[autumnnight]

That's if you believe that little fantasy, which in any case, has been widely accepted as a fairy tale to try to explain how life on earth began. It's just a story, nothing more.

And it's typical of Biblical bias against women, in that obviously, it's all the woman's fault things went belly-up.

 

Don't forget that Goddesses were hailed as superior to men, once upon a time, and that Mary, as Christ's mother, apparently never put a foot wrong. In fact, she and Mary Magdalene played a much bigger part in the story iof Christ than Church leaders - both past and present - are willing to acknowledge. Women still draw the short straw when it comes to their roles in Religious leanings.

 

So let's not steer this down the "women are weak-willed, impressionable and fickle creatures who do nothing but create a world of hurt, if not kept in check" route.

 

This is a somewhat ironic post for someone who just criticized hostility and said "your truth and my truth are really just points of view." I happen to believe that fairy tale, so I consider your post to be every bit as hostile andcondescending as you consider others to be.

 

The Bible clearly states that Jesus is God in the flesh, not an angel and not a man who became a god. Believing in Jesus means believing the World who became flesh, not an angel, a good teacher, a hippie, or a man who became a god and the ruler of a planet. WHO Jesus is is foundational.

[TheFinalWord]

Since I posted there have been a couple of developments.

 

I tried to have a discussion with my wife in a non-confrontational way. Basically I just asked her why she wanted to join the JWs, and said that I was a bit worried and had a couple of concerns. However she reacted quite aggressively and said that if it was a problem between us it was because I made it a problem. I backed off as I felt continuing the discussion like this would be counter-productive and decided to let what I said sink in and re-open the discussion in a few days.

 

A few days later she brought it up again. She talked quite a bit but it came down to two things.

1. She is keen on themainly because she likes their approach to life (eg how they tell you to live and behave) and they are friendly and welcoming. She had a couple of bad experiences going to a new RC church and finding it unwelcoming and unfriendly. There doesn't seem to be a fundamental point of doctrine that draws her to them. Also they offer a friendly bible study group which she likes.

 

2. She has suggested that one of them meet me to alleviate any doctrinal concerns I may have. I have agreed to this, not in the expectation that I can "win" any debate with them ( I almost certainly won't!) but to attempt to show openness and to allow any serious doctrinal issues to be brought out clearly for example the birth and resurrection of Christ. And also because she in turn has agreed to attend an RC bible study group, and to meet with our former priest who married us and who she has a high respect for.

 

So all is not yet lost. I will find her a bible study group, encourage her to attend mass and accompany her even though I am not RC, and track down our former priest and arrange a visit.

 

At the end of the day it has to be her decision. I cannot tell her what she should and should not do here. All I can do is try to ensure she gets a balanced and honest view so that her decision is properly informed.

 

Hi Davey,

 

Here are my suggestions.

 

1. Pray for God to intervene and that he opens your wife's eyes to this deception.

2. Do not go into this meeting pretending to be open to their beliefs. You know they are in error. Study and declare a doctrine. As the husband, you do have a spiritual leadership role to play; more so than your priest. It's important for men, and especially husbands, to study and declare the doctrine they believe in as you will be attacked spiritually. Your wife is seeking spiritual leadership. That is why she is seeking these people. That is something you can give her in a way no one else can. Don't underestimate your spiritual role.

 

Using carnal tactics like going out more, etc. will not work on spiritual problems. Instead of those things, spend that time praying and studying doctrine so you will be equipped. I am happy to PM with you some resources. You do not have to be an expert to know and defend basic doctrine.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Edited December 29, 2014 by TheFinalWord

[Davey L]

Hi Davey,

 

Here are my suggestions.

 

1. Pray for God to intervene and that he opens your wife's eyes to this deception.

2. Do not go into this meeting pretending to be open to their beliefs. You know they are in error. Study and declare a doctrine. As the husband, you do have a spiritual leadership role to play; more so than your priest. It's important for men, and especially husbands, to study and declare the doctrine they believe in as you will be attacked spiritually. Your wife is seeking spiritual leadership. That is why she is seeking these people. That is something you can give her in a way no one else can. Don't underestimate your spiritual role.

 

Using carnal tactics like going out more, etc. will not work on spiritual problems. Instead of those things, spend that time praying and studying doctrine so you will be equipped. I am happy to PM with you some resources. You do not have to be an expert to know and defend basic doctrine.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

 

Thanks. What I meant to say by being open at the meeting was that I will listen to what they have to say. I particularly want to hear, from them, what their doctrine is on Jesus and on salvation, as these are the points I am most concerned about. I want my wife to understand very clearly what their doctrine is on these as I feel she might not be fully aware of the doctrinal issues.

 

I also have an appointment with an RC priest tomorrow.

[Satu]

You've already lost her - you just didn't notice it.