I wish I met my MM 10 years ago.. If only he was the man I married...

[Versailles]

I can't argue against what you mentioned in the first paragraph... He did mention that he struggles with guilt all the time but he's also so incredibly happy whenever he sees me. We love each other and want to see each other, that's in our interests now even if its not good long term? We really love being in each other's company and it's just that we have agreed that if the other decides to leave, the remaining party will understand. I understand if he wants to leave but it's not going to stop me from being sad and completely depressed.

 

I've wondered before whether I really love him or whether I love the love he has for me... But concluded that I really love him. Several other men (who didn't know I was married) have tried to date me before but I've always ignored them.. And I still wouldn't have chosen MM except that something just clicked into place and I knew he was the missing part of my life that I never knew was missing until I really got to know him. You know how people sometimes meet for the first time and feel like best friends? It was like that for MM and I.. We had our first real conversation (not work) and felt like we had known each other since forever.

 

Neither of us ever wanted to be an AP, but chose to do so (i know its still wrong...) because of how strongly we felt about each other to the exclusion of everything else. I tell him I wish I had met him earlier in life before either of us got married and he tells me he wishes he had waited to get married only to someone who was his true partner. If he were single, he would definitely choose me. He likes to tell me jokingly that sometimes he wonders if we might have been married in a previous life - he wonders why he feels so comfortable around me that he can tell me anything and why he sometimes knows what I want to say even before I say anything.

 

I thought that you and MM set out the ground rules right from the start that you would each leave the other if it was in their best interest. If you truly loved MM you would leave him alone and never speak to him again. You being in his life is not the best for him or his son. You are tormenting his soul, causing him strife and assisting him in committing adultery, which I'm sure goes against his personal values. You are a sickness to him and his marriage.

 

But you can't leave him. Because you are selfish and a coward. The exact opposite of true love. The affair love you are experiencing is completely and totally self-centered. He's nothing but a drug you crave. It's not hard to see that you were starving for affection and love for so many years that you were a sitting duck for these feelings. He's not your soul mate. Countless other guys could have crossed your path and shown you some attention and you would have fallen just as hard for them.

 

You wrote extensively about how horrible your husband and marriage have been, presumably to justify your affair. But all you showed was your own character defects for staying in a marriage like that for so long. And an affair isn't a "mistake". We know that people aren't perfect and slip up, but that's not the same as a person intentionally choosing to repeatedly engage in bad conduct. A hit man doesn't justify his conduct to a priest by saying everyone makes mistakes. If you wake up every morning and decide to commit murder, you are a murderer, not a good person that made a mistake. You wake up every morning and choose to be a cheater. Your only god in this world is MM.

 

I wish women could realize that for men, there are two types of women. The kind of women that guys would only date and have sex with, and the kind of women who are marriage material. You are not marriage material. The number one quality that men want from a girl he is interested in marrying is loyalty. You've proven to MM that you can never be fully trusted because you couldn't keep the most solemn vow that a woman makes in her lifetime. A man also wants a woman with a clean reputation to marry. A man's image in his community is very important. A woman with the stain of adultery is not marriage material. Of course, a man never expresses these thoughts to a girl who isn't marriage material. He will lead her on forever with promises, but simply never pulls the trigger with her. The second you crossed the line with MM, you sealed your fate that you could never be with him.

[Versailles]

I can't say my marriage is the worst but yeah, believe it when I say it is bad. H is not a completely bad person and he can be a good friend (yes I can still talk to him as a friend) BUT he is horrible as a husband. Which self-respecting man would propose knowing that he doesn't want any kids but the woman does, but he lets her believe happily that he wants kids too and they have similar life goals together? And when the marriage is obviously not on track and the woman tries to do something about it, he does nothing to reciprocate? And yes I get that men don't get hints so for anyone wondering, I wrote down everything.. Clear steps which we had discussed together and I put on paper and checked with him if he agreed that we had come up with the same action plan. The answer was yes but after that, not a single thing was done under his to do list. I did my part but he didn't do his.

 

I get angry thinking of anyone thinking on his behalf so I could go on and on but I shall try not to say too much. He is a reality best left ignored so that I don't go insane wondering why he married me only to torture me. His mother is another piece of work, at one point where I really wanted to leave him, she convinced me to stay by telling me how broken hearted he would be, how I was the only one who could keep his anger management issues in check, how much she loved me as her DIL and other crap. Moronically I stayed when on hindsight.. None of her reasons involved how it would be good for ME, everything was how it would be good for HIM and her family. I used to think she really loved me as her real daughter... I was wrong. If I had seen through this woman from the start, I would have known the son is all fake in appearance and don't expect any true feelings.

 

Given that I have an obvious history of being a very poor judge of character.... Yes I do wonder now if I might be doing the completely crazy thing of believing MM to be someone he is not... It seems so impossible that he could be a cruel person who only pretends to love me so that I devote myself only to him and he's merely enjoying the ego boost... I have very little explanation for his silence and it bothers me a LOT that in 2 weeks (336 hours), he has kept complete silence.... But I've tried to be understanding and trying to see from his perspective why he might not be able to contact me even if he misses me or maybe he's just angry that I went off on a trip on my own without him... Or his family is sad now and he feels guilty being happy talking to me or because of his MIL getting ill, he is now deciding to stop our relationship... I don't know until he is back and I can talk to him...

 

On a side note... Can I ask that if any of you decided to go off to Europe on your own (no its not even a guided tour group) for a holiday, would your H or MM or BF try to stop you? When I decided to go, I had female friends asking me to have fun and be very careful (yes, all thanks to them thinking europe is full of kidnappers after watching the movie "taken"), H was "sure, go ahead, anyway it's your money", MM was "I'm so sorry our trip is cancelled, I wish I could go with you.. But yes I understand you need a break, enjoy yourself and take care, let me know that you are safe and happy else I will worry about you"

 

You CAN move on, you just don't want to. Make sure you have that right. You are CHOOSING to not move on with your life - in your allegedly bad marriage and in your affair. You are like a puppy wanting to follow his master...it is really pitiful reading how you will do anything to remain in the MM's life. I feel sorry for you...so needy and desperate in your words/actions.

 

MM could communicate with you while gone; he has just chosen not to. He isn't chained to anyone. He probably goes potty alone and maybe showers alone...and there are probably hours during the day he is alone...but he hasn't reached out to you. For someone who you believe loves you, do you not wonder why he hasn't reached out to you? Does it bother you to know he is choosing to not contact you? It should bother you. Good luck with your life....trailing behind MM waiting for any crumbs he will throw you.

[Versailles]

Deleted post. Started thinking about something which shouldn't bother me at all.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Versailles

[anika99]

If your marriage was that bad and your husband was that hideous then you would leave. There is no reason for you to stay with a terrible husband. You don't even have children with him. Oh an one of your main complaints about him is that he doesn't want children but you do. So you are going to stay with him and not have children and then blame it all on him because you don't have the maturity to take responsibility for yourself.

 

 

He can't make you stay, his mother can't make you stay, you are choosing to stay married to a man you clearly don't love or respect and then you have the audacity to bad mouth him and blame him for everything wrong in your life, while you are cheating on him. You're upset because he happily let you go off to Europe for vacation but if he had tried to stop you then you would be here posting about what an awful beastly man he is for trying to stop you from going to Europe, because you are just looking for reasons to blame him for everything wrong with you and your life. I'm sure he's no saint but you are responsible for yourself. If you stay married to him and never have children then the blame for that will be on you.

[Versailles]

Just wanted to post that after almost 3 weeks NC from MM, he's finally back from his visit to his in laws and nothing much has changed, he still wants us to be together. Whew... I was so worried that he was going to come back and tell me goodbye..

 

On the other hand though... This also feels like the beginning of the end when he told me why he hadnt contacted me at all. He's even telling me we shouldnt text at all now... he deleted our messaging app on his phone so he didnt even see any of the texts i sent him... Apparently his wife's relative happened to see us lunching together just before he left on his family trip and told her about it... (I dont even know what prompted the relative to say anything when we had zero physical contact...). She has been checking his phone non-stop so he hasn't been able to be alone with his phone at all...

 

Part of me tells me I should tell him to confess and assure her that he won't contact me again. I don't feel good that she is upset over it right now... On the other hand, I really don't want to lose him when we know we love each other. It's selfish of me to keep him, but until he tells me he doesn't want to see me, I will stay by his side and be as unobtrusive as possible in his life. Given the current situation, I wish he could tell his wife about us and I wish she would allow us to see each other... She can set the conditions and as far as possible, I would be willing to obey her... But I know it's wishful thinking...

[stillmind]

That is a bunch of bullcrap. You're obsessing over this pointless drama and ignoring the real problem in your life: your horrible marriage.

 

You have dreams of being a mother and having a committed partner, so get OUT of your terrible marriage and go chase those dreams. You're wasting your time. You're wasting your life. It's not your husband's fault you can't have kids, it's not MM's fault, it's YOUR FAULT because you choose to stay in a terrible situation.

 

You're sitting here angsting over whether or not MM is willing to text you and your life is passing you by.

 

And btw, I doubt you'll ever see MM again. This guy is terrified of being caught. He only sees you for lunch dates, and now his wife is on to these lunch dates and he's refusing to text you. I doubt he's going to meet you for any more lunches now that he knows his wife is on to him. Forget MM and his texting app and his drama and figure out how you're going to get away from your husband and start your own life.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I don't think it is the MM that is bringing/fuelling the drama here.

 

He was upfront about his intentions...it is clear he was trying to minimize having this very outcome. A wall of texts awaiting him from the OW. An OW who dreams about having his child. Who really wants his wife to know, so his wife will share him.

 

There is a reason he put guidelines in place. Lunches when it is convenient for him(read....when he perceives the risk is low to be caught), no contact on weekends, contact only through certain avenues, and the biggie...I ain't leaving my wife. Not to mention unilaterally imposing more without prior discussion. Removing the only way the OW can contact him without informing her is a huge message....he didn't care what she had/might have to say.

 

There is a current thread where the MM is boastful on how his NC worked in getting the upperhand/can now dictate the relationship with the OW. I see how perfectly it has worked here as well. OP willing to be unobtrusive, will follow any guidelines by his wife...etc.

 

Sadly, this poster is waiting to be rescued from her marriage. She isn't strong enough to run her own life and wants the MM to ride in on a white horse to save her from the dragon that is her husband.

 

How someone can spin...I ain't ever leaving my wife..unilateral NC with no forewarning into....my MM and me love each other...is beyond comprehension.

[No Limit]

I envy that she has a husband who feels such great commitment to his family

 

Excuse me? He shows as much commitment to his own family as your husband to you.

 

Anyway, it's your life. Just please don't bring a child into this, not all children cope well with the conscience that they're little more than a product of deception and hormones. There are even cases of suicide, especially when the mothers wouldn't tell them who their father truly is it haunts them forever.

 

Don't drag more people into this. Not even those who aren't born.

 

 

In case you decide to be more active on sharing your OM, I'd be very interested to read about his reaction though. I've seen plenty of "My OW won't leave me alone, but I don't want my wife to know! What do I do?" threads in different forums.

Edited December 4, 2014 by No Limit

[jellybean89]

I can't say my marriage is the worst but yeah, believe it when I say it is bad. H is not a completely bad person and he can be a good friend (yes I can still talk to him as a friend) BUT he is horrible as a husband. Which self-respecting man would propose knowing that he doesn't want any kids but the woman does, but he lets her believe happily that he wants kids too and they have similar life goals together? And when the marriage is obviously not on track and the woman tries to do something about it, he does nothing to reciprocate? And yes I get that men don't get hints so for anyone wondering, I wrote down everything.. Clear steps which we had discussed together and I put on paper and checked with him if he agreed that we had come up with the same action plan. The answer was yes but after that, not a single thing was done under his to do list. I did my part but he didn't do his. Yet you stay and cheat. You have known for how long now that he really doesn't want kids, and you stay and be miserable. Why? Please don't use the religion excuse again..that went out the window the moment you cheated.

 

Given that I have an obvious history of being a very poor judge of character.... Yes I do wonder now if I might be doing the completely crazy thing of believing MM to be someone he is not... It seems so impossible that he could be a cruel person who only pretends to love me so that I devote myself only to him and he's merely enjoying the ego boost... I have very little explanation for his silence and it bothers me a LOT that in 2 weeks (336 hours), he has kept complete silence.... But I've tried to be understanding and trying to see from his perspective why he might not be able to contact me even if he misses me or maybe he's just angry that I went off on a trip on my own without him... Or his family is sad now and he feels guilty being happy talking to me or because of his MIL getting ill, he is now deciding to stop our relationship... I don't know until he is back and I can talk to him...You actually have counted the hours he has been gone? That is very telling how utterly out of control you are. I mean, I just am speechless that you have counted the hours he has been gone and not contacted you.

 

On a side note... Can I ask that if any of you decided to go off to Europe on your own (no its not even a guided tour group) for a holiday, would your H or MM or BF try to stop you? When I decided to go, I had female friends asking me to have fun and be very careful (yes, all thanks to them thinking europe is full of kidnappers after watching the movie "taken"), H was "sure, go ahead, anyway it's your money", MM was "I'm so sorry our trip is cancelled, I wish I could go with you.. But yes I understand you need a break, enjoy yourself and take care, let me know that you are safe and happy else I will worry about you"

 

My mother went to Israel at 67 years old with a girlfriend; leaving my dad and the other husband at home. You, and my parents, are adults. What's the issue of going on vacation alone? You despise your H so why would you even care what he thinks? The MM isn't going to stop you - heck, he won't even have sex with you in the same state while his wife is in that state.

 

Just wanted to post that after almost 3 weeks NC from MM, he's finally back from his visit to his in laws and nothing much has changed, he still wants us to be together. Whew... I was so worried that he was going to come back and tell me goodbye..

 

On the other hand though... This also feels like the beginning of the end when he told me why he hadnt contacted me at all. He's even telling me we shouldnt text at all now... he deleted our messaging app on his phone so he didnt even see any of the texts i sent him... Apparently his wife's relative happened to see us lunching together just before he left on his family trip and told her about it... (I dont even know what prompted the relative to say anything when we had zero physical contact...). She has been checking his phone non-stop so he hasn't been able to be alone with his phone at all...

 

You believe that he was never ever ever left alone with his phone in the 336 hours he was gone? Really? So she took it from him when he went to the bathroom? She took it from him while he showered? She chained herself to him for those hours so that he could never once be alone? And you believe this? You really need some professional help. You are making excuses left and right for his obvious disinterest in you by blaming his wife? Even IF this was true, this should be a huge red flag to you that he ISN'T that into you. You are OBSESSED with him and you need some help.

 

Part of me tells me I should tell him to confess and assure her that he won't contact me again. I don't feel good that she is upset over it right now... On the other hand, I really don't want to lose him when we know we love each other. It's selfish of me to keep him, but until he tells me he doesn't want to see me, I will stay by his side and be as unobtrusive as possible in his life. Given the current situation, I wish he could tell his wife about us and I wish she would allow us to see each other... She can set the conditions and as far as possible, I would be willing to obey her... But I know it's wishful thinking...

 

You don't care that she is possibly upset. If you did, you would stop pursing her H. How exactly have you and he 'fallen in love' when you don't spend but an hour a week together, don't have a 'text' relationship since he won't text you when he isn't at work and he spends zero 'romantic' time with you? Are you really sure he feels anything for you besides a flirty friends with benefits situation? Really love each other? I don't think so - not from what you have posted. YOU are all wrapped up in him, but not him. If he 'really' loved you, he wouldn't have gone 336+ hours without communication; he wouldn't only speak to you during working hours; lunch once a week wouldn't be good enough for him - he would want more time with you.

 

Yes, it is wishful/delusional thinking to think his wife would give you the green light to be with her husband! I just can't even wrap my head around how you even have this thought in your head. Again, he won't even communicate with you -- yet you want him to tell his wife about you and your infatuation with her husband and then be happy with you pursing him?

 

Why don't you concentrate on YOUR marriage - either end it or fix it. Stop worrying about his marriage -- he isn't concentrating on you even a little bit...his actions are showing you that. He can tell you all the words you want; but it is actions that speak louder than words.

[Versailles]

Wow stillmind, you sound like a part of my mind talking to me. I recall thinking pretty much the exact same words! I do want a proper marriage and my own children who can grow up in a happy and complete family unit. It's hard to visualize any of this happening in my future when there's only 1 person in my heart now and I know none of it can happen with him. I suppose I could try to drop everything and start anew but it would be such a lie to someone else if I were to get married again knowing that I can't love this other person properly. It took me 8 years of constant rejection by H (emotionally and physically) before I managed to stop loving him. It'll probably take me the same amount of time or longer to get over MM..

 

"You have dreams of being a mother and having a committed partner, so get OUT of your terrible marriage and go chase those dreams. You're wasting your time. You're wasting your life."

 

I don't think it is the MM that is bringing/fuelling the drama here.

 

He was upfront about his intentions...it is clear he was trying to minimize having this very outcome. A wall of texts awaiting him from the OW. An OW who dreams about having his child. Who really wants his wife to know, so his wife will share him.

 

There is a reason he put guidelines in place. Lunches when it is convenient for him(read....when he perceives the risk is low to be caught), no contact on weekends, contact only through certain avenues, and the biggie...I ain't leaving my wife. Not to mention unilaterally imposing more without prior discussion. Removing the only way the OW can contact him without informing her is a huge message....he didn't care what she had/might have to say.

 

We didn't use to have so many restrictions.. Initially we would meet almost everyday for lunch and dinner and the very occasional Saturday, it's just that every time he thinks his wife might suspect something, he cuts out that part... Now I know this is all eventually leading to "sorry I can't see you anymore as W knows now", but it doesn't stop me believing that he loves me. If I were in his position and my H was a good husband and father, I would probably do the same to MM.. Or actually if H was like that in the first place, I wouldn't have dated anyone else.

 

Anyway, for now, MM still loves me and we will still meet for lunch as usual whenever we can. Our meet up yesterday was too short to talk about what we should do going forward but I'll speak to him about how we can keep in touch if he can't even be alone with his phone now.. The happy news is that even though he was NC for almost 3 weeks, he was thinking of me nonetheless and even bought me my birthday present!

 

There is a current thread where the MM is boastful on how his NC worked in getting the upperhand/can now dictate the relationship with the OW. I see how perfectly it has worked here as well. OP willing to be unobtrusive, will follow any guidelines by his wife...etc.

 

Sadly, this poster is waiting to be rescued from her marriage. She isn't strong enough to run her own life and wants the MM to ride in on a white horse to save her from the dragon that is her husband.

 

You are spot on about this... I need strong pull factors before I push myself away from a sham marriage. Unfortunately MM is not the pull factor I wanted or needed.. If I had fallen in love with a single man, things would have been a whole lot easier and there wouldn't have been anything stopping us from being together once D was settled. I guess I'm useless... I am clueless and dont know how to deal with it when it comes to matters of the heart. Which brings to mind the advice about therapy and counselling.. Definitely something I should do once MM gives the final goodbye..

 

How someone can spin...I ain't ever leaving my wife..unilateral NC with no forewarning into....my MM and me love each other...is beyond comprehension.

[anika99]

Just wanted to post that after almost 3 weeks NC from MM, he's finally back from his visit to his in laws and nothing much has changed, he still wants us to be together. Whew... I was so worried that he was going to come back and tell me goodbye..

 

On the other hand though... This also feels like the beginning of the end when he told me why he hadnt contacted me at all. He's even telling me we shouldnt text at all now... he deleted our messaging app on his phone so he didnt even see any of the texts i sent him... Apparently his wife's relative happened to see us lunching together just before he left on his family trip and told her about it... (I dont even know what prompted the relative to say anything when we had zero physical contact...). She has been checking his phone non-stop so he hasn't been able to be alone with his phone at all...

 

Part of me tells me I should tell him to confess and assure her that he won't contact me again. I don't feel good that she is upset over it right now... On the other hand, I really don't want to lose him when we know we love each other. It's selfish of me to keep him, but until he tells me he doesn't want to see me, I will stay by his side and be as unobtrusive as possible in his life. Given the current situation, I wish he could tell his wife about us and I wish she would allow us to see each other... She can set the conditions and as far as possible, I would be willing to obey her... But I know it's wishful thinking...

 

 

I totally think you should call the wife and let her know that you would like to share her husband and that she can set the rule. And then please please pretty please come back and tell us how it turns out.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I don't know where, when or why you have the thought process so imbedded in your head that one needs another man before they can leave the one they do have, or more accurately the one they don't want.

[Raena]

It seems to me that you have taken all of your desires and hopes and dreams and wants and needs that you haven't gotten from your marriage and dropped them all on the first guy who paid attention to you.

 

It's not that uncommon really.

 

You have held back and not gotten what you needed for so long that the first person who pays attention to you seems like the best option... your soulmate... if only you'd met HIM instead of your husband.

 

It's a fairytale.

 

But there's also something to it... I'm no psychologist but it seems like you've transferred all of your hopes and dreams onto this one person who is paying attention to you.

 

You aren't really listening to what people are telling you on here. Your husband is NOT going to just magically change his ways. He obviously knows that he can do whatever he pleases and you won't leave him. He can treat you like crap and you'll take it. You have to recognize that it isn't going to change and it's time to drop the "oh whoa is me" martyrdom. Get divorced, do it NOW, stop wasting your life away with someone who doesn't respect you.

 

As for the MM... well, he isn't the right guy for you either. He's cheating on his wife to be with you. Whatever his excuses are, they aren't good enough. It's very sad that you think that one lunch once in awhile, stolen kisses, sneaking situations is what you deserve. You deserve MUCH better than to be someone's side piece. You THINK he's the man for you because you have no idea how a real man treats a woman. A man who truly loved you would not be ok with only seeing you once in awhile and having to LIE about it.

 

As others have said.... neither one of them is right for you. Drop them both and move on with your life.

[Versailles]

Raena, thanks for the wake up call. It's true that I have invested everything into this MM, but just for the record he isn't the first one to have given me attention though he was the first one that I had reciprocal feelings for.

 

I'm trying to wake myself up from the dream of staying in his life (secretly or not, it doesn't matter) when I KNOW he will drop me once W's suspicions are confirmed... On one hand I find myself just wishing to hang on for as long as I can to our relationship..because I genuinely love him and wish to be with him as long as possible. On the other hand, I am also beginning to get tired of being ignored all the time except when he finds it convenient to contact me... He could at least give me just a tiny bit more priority in his life... I spent 1.5 hours today waiting for him to let me know whether we were having lunch... And he didn't tell me anything until lunchtime was over, then he said he had a business lunch... Which is true btw, but he could have told me before I started waiting for him...

 

I guess I will wait until we celebrate my birthday... I do so want to have a nice and happy celebration with him! Then after that... I should seriously think about dropping the question I've been afraid to ask... Shall we stop seeing each other?

 

I am so frightened that he will agree... And that he won't even try to prolong our relationship... But it would also be a kind of relief if he said yes... Then I can stop expecting calls and texts which seldom come... On the other hand if he did tell me that he can't give me up, I can't give him up either... I've never felt the same kind of joy I have in his presence with anyone else... He's literally the sunshine in my life.. I am in a good mood all day long if I see him and sad all day long if I don't see him.

 

I really don't know... I shall see what happens after my birthday celebration... Assuming he doesn't jump the gun on me and pop that difficult question first. For all I know, he is also waiting to let me enjoy my birthday celebration with him before dropping any bad news...

 

It seems to me that you have taken all of your desires and hopes and dreams and wants and needs that you haven't gotten from your marriage and dropped them all on the first guy who paid attention to you.

 

It's not that uncommon really.

 

You have held back and not gotten what you needed for so long that the first person who pays attention to you seems like the best option... your soulmate... if only you'd met HIM instead of your husband.

 

It's a fairytale.

 

But there's also something to it... I'm no psychologist but it seems like you've transferred all of your hopes and dreams onto this one person who is paying attention to you.

 

You aren't really listening to what people are telling you on here. Your husband is NOT going to just magically change his ways. He obviously knows that he can do whatever he pleases and you won't leave him. He can treat you like crap and you'll take it. You have to recognize that it isn't going to change and it's time to drop the "oh whoa is me" martyrdom. Get divorced, do it NOW, stop wasting your life away with someone who doesn't respect you.

 

As for the MM... well, he isn't the right guy for you either. He's cheating on his wife to be with you. Whatever his excuses are, they aren't good enough. It's very sad that you think that one lunch once in awhile, stolen kisses, sneaking situations is what you deserve. You deserve MUCH better than to be someone's side piece. You THINK he's the man for you because you have no idea how a real man treats a woman. A man who truly loved you would not be ok with only seeing you once in awhile and having to LIE about it.

 

As others have said.... neither one of them is right for you. Drop them both and move on with your life.

[Versailles]

It's so hard to find someone who really just appreciates you just as you are... I guess part of the reason i fell more and more in love with MM is because he really loves everything about me. Even when I didn't sleep enough and had dark eye circles and no makeup on, I am still the most beautiful person in his eyes. I know because when we went on a trip together, I can wake up to see him just staring happily at me and he has this cute lovelorn look on his face sometimes when he thinks I am not looking. I asked him if going on a trip together and seeing each other's habits made him change his mind, but no, he still says everything is perfect and I complement him perfectly in his habits and likes and dislikes. And it's the same for me too, everything he does is great and he can do no wrong except for the times he ignores me.

 

I mean, just compare this to H who told me I am not his type (physically as well as in terms of character) AFTER we got married and that I irritate him when he is in a good mood. Why he bothered chasing me for 3 years until I agreed to date him was a mystery to me until I realized that he didn't love me, he simply loved the idea of owning me because I dared to say no to him in the past. Marrying me was just a form of revenge for him. I have no idea why I continued to love him for years and put up with everything. Thank goodness he finally managed to completely crush any love I still had for him!

 

Anyway, sorry for the rant, just wanted to say that it's really hard to find someone who suits you so well that you feel made for each other and whom you feel the same about. So yes, the point is to treasure that someone if/when you find him or her!!!

[Versailles]

I celebrated my birthday with MM yesterday and everything went well, nice lunch and great fun in each other's company! But I chickened out of asking him whether we should stop seeing each other... Not yet anyway... Maybe after the new year.. I don't think I could take a farewell right now..

 

Instead I asked him when we should plan our next trip. Stupid question.. The answer was that maybe we can't go on a trip together again because right now things are... Complicated. He gave a very disturbed look and stared at the table for a while. I told him its ok, we don't have to talk about it now, lets talk about it next year then. At which point he cheered up and said yes, we should talk about it next year instead.

 

I wonder if his reaction was because he was happy he could put off the difficult farewell conversation till some other point in future... Or was he just happy that I didn't ask further about his current complications and is still looking forward to our trip together next year... Or both?

 

For the record, I would stop calling or texting him if he said we can't see each other anymore and I had promised to let him go if that was what he wanted. Problem is.. I don't know what he wants... Sometimes I feel like it's the beginning of the end, other times I feel like he can't bear not seeing me and won't ever start the farewell conversation unless he really has a d day with W.

 

Should I actually ask what happened with W and why she's suddenly checking his phone all the time now?

[purplesorrow]

I celebrated my birthday with MM yesterday and everything went well, nice lunch and great fun in each other's company! But I chickened out of asking him whether we should stop seeing each other... Not yet anyway... Maybe after the new year.. I don't think I could take a farewell right now..

 

Instead I asked him when we should plan our next trip. Stupid question.. The answer was that maybe we can't go on a trip together again because right now things are... Complicated. He gave a very disturbed look and stared at the table for a while. I told him its ok, we don't have to talk about it now, lets talk about it next year then. At which point he cheered up and said yes, we should talk about it next year instead.

 

I wonder if his reaction was because he was happy he could put off the difficult farewell conversation till some other point in future... Or was he just happy that I didn't ask further about his current complications and is still looking forward to our trip together next year... Or both?

 

For the record, I would stop calling or texting him if he said we can't see each other anymore and I had promised to let him go if that was what he wanted. Problem is.. I don't know what he wants... Sometimes I feel like it's the beginning of the end, other times I feel like he can't bear not seeing me and won't ever start the farewell conversation unless he really has a d day with W.

 

Should I actually ask what happened with W and why she's suddenly checking his phone all the time now?

 

You should stay out of their marriage. You already know the answer to your question anyway. She is checking because she thinks he is up to no good. And why sit around waiting for someone else to decide your fate. That is not living.

[Versailles]

I've had my birthday and Christmas cum New Year celebration with MM and as far as I can tell, though he is under stress from W checking up on him recently, he still wants to meet me and doesn't seem to want to end our relationship yet. Everything between us is still the same other than him suddenly telling me that at the moment, maybe we can't go on a trip together ever again. When I suggested talking about it next year instead, he readily agreed.. I still wonder if this was a delay tactic or if what he said was because of the recent stress and he would still like to go on a trip together with me next year. Any MM care to share their thoughts on this? If this was your situation, is it more likely to be the former or latter scenario?

 

I'm glad to announce that I did a lot of thinking over the holidays and have finally decided that no matter what happens with MM (or not), I need to settle the marriage-which-is-not-a-marriage problem first. I will divorce H for sure and will serve him the divorce papers next month. Before that though, I will consult a lawyer and make sure I've left our house before I serve him the divorce papers. Once he sees it, I don't know how he will react, he might beg me to stay or just sign it or he might even try to rape/kill me.. Anyway that's why I will leave the house first before informing him I want to divorce him. If anyone has any further advice on what to do before serving divorce papers to someone who is very possessive and has anger management issues, do let me know!

 

I know this decision doesn't sound like the me who has been waffling over a false marriage for 8 whole years, but I'm glad I finally made the decision! In part, it's thanks to reading the advice and shared stories from others on this forum, but it's also thanks to MM. After loving him, I feel like a stronger me and he made me realize that I can indeed love again. Even if I do not get to be with MM in future, I know now that for my own good, I need to end my marriage first. If I don't end it, nothing can happen, whether with MM or anyone else. H has already wasted almost a decade of my life, time which I could have spent being a wife and mother to a better man and his family, I'm not letting him waste any more of my time!!! Good riddance to bad rubbish!!!

 

Honestly when I first decided on this action and started looking for evidence (I need evidence to prove wrongdoing on his part before I can serve divorce papers in my city), my decision was only about 75% made. After I searched and found evidence, my decision is 100%. Bad enough that I found pictures and videos of him having sex with at least 4 different women.. Of whom at least 2 were paid for their services, I am truly disgusted that he brought one of them to our house and did the act on our bed. I just thought that he would at least respect me enough to leave our house out of it but well.. Apparently not. On the bright side though, I should have all the evidence I need and the divorce should proceed faster because of that. I am so very glad now that H hasnt been intimate with me in many years and that we don't have children! As of my last health check 3 years ago, no issues and H hasn't touched me in more than that time so everything's good!

[Versailles]

This is the best decision I've made in years! I feel free and stronger now than I've been in a very long time and can't wait to meet the lawyer whom my friend will introduce to me next week!

 

I can't wait to be free now that I've made up my mind on what to do!

 

After I get the divorce settled, I'll talk to MM seriously about our future. If he still wants me in his life, I will be willing (reluctantly but yes, willing) to be his secret second family if that's what it takes for us to be together. But if not, I will ask him for his permission to leave and look for someone else. I know he will not try to selfishly keep me by his side if he really can't see any future for us. I am actually worried that he will wish me all the best and let me leave...when I don't want to leave him because I love him more than anyone else or anything in this world...

 

To other MMs, what would be your consideration to have a second family? What would you want from the OW for the arrangement to work? Financial considerations can be excluded as I will not ask for support from MM in this aspect, I'm working and can support myself and our child (if any).

 

One more question to other MMs.. Should I tell my MM before proceeding to divorce H or tell MM later after its all settled? Whatever MM says, my decision will still proceed, just that I feel weird not telling him about such a big decision in my life, but I don't know if I should tell him now or later..I worry if i tell him now that he might get the wrong idea that I want him to do the same (for the record, im not and wont ask him to divorce W) and add more stress to him... He's on a family vacation now and won't read any texts from me until he is back 2 weeks later...

Edited December 27, 2014 by Versailles

[still_an_Angel]

 

I can't wait to be free now that I've made up my mind on what to do!

 

 

 

 

good on you! move forward with your decision and leave your sham of a marriage.

 

 

 

After I get the divorce settled, I'll talk to MM seriously about our future. If he still wants me in his life, I will be willing (reluctantly but yes, willing) to be his secret second family if that's what it takes for us to be together. But if not, I will ask him for his permission to leave and look for someone else.

 

 

Seriously??? PERMISSION?? WHY?? Why give him the power to decide your fate? Only YOU can control your destiny, you don't need his permission to look for someone else.

 

 

To other MMs, what would be your consideration to have a second family? What would you want from the OW for the arrangement to work? Financial considerations can be excluded as I will not ask for support from MM in this aspect, I'm working and can support myself and our child (if any).

 

 

 

 

Your MM is one extremely lucky dude as it is. A willing OW waiting for him to decide her fate and now, a second family that he has no financial responsibilities for? Why would you place yourself in such a difficult position? For love? So that you can be in his life? or bind yourself to him through a child? Please, I beg you to reconsider, once the reality of raising a child hits, the paying parent hightails outta there. There are other issues here as well but that is another can to be opened. I think you're thinking way ahead here, maybe settle for now how your MM is going to react now that you're soon-to-be single.

 

One more question to other MMs.. Should I tell my MM before proceeding to divorce H or tell MM later after its all settled? Whatever MM says, my decision will still proceed, just that I feel weird not telling him about such a big decision in my life, but I don't know if I should tell him now or later..I worry if i tell him now that he might get the wrong idea that I want him to do the same (for the record, im not and wont ask him to divorce W) and add more stress to him... He's on a family vacation now and won't read any texts from me until he is back 2 weeks later...

 

 

Its really got nothing to do with him, you have made your decision and he has no role to play in your D. But I understand why you would like to tell him, I think you should, but clarify that you are not after him to do the same. He might think that you will be wanting more (you do) and he does not want to compromise his M so he might back off. I think at this stage, it is important that you show him that you are an independent woman who is fully capable of your own destiny, including walking out on him, and he has no say in your life.

 

Come on girl, you will be taking back all your power from your M. Don't just pass it on to your MM and wait for him to decide your life.

[Versailles]

Sorry what I meant to say came out wrong, I don't need MM's "permission" to do anything after I get rid of H for good, but I do love MM and I would preferably have his agreement/approval on things happening in my life. I don't want to leave him unless he wants me to, but if we do part ways, I still want to remain friends with him as he will always be someone I love and admire.

 

Or perhaps.. Rather than showing MM that I care a lot about him, I should do what Cressida did and walk away from him before he comes crawling back (I hope).. But I guess if I do decide to walk away, I want to do it because I want to and not because I'm trying to get him back.

 

Anyway I will update again when D is finalized and when I get to talk to MM about it. I will know then whether MM still wants to be with me on terms we can agree on together or get scared off worrying that I will threaten his lifestyle. If he gets scared off, his love which he proclaimed is less than what I believed it to be. It's sad just thinking about it but well I shouldn't imagine his reaction and take it as it comes..

[Versailles]

Wow now that I've started the divorce process and met up with my lawyer to kick off proceedings, some of MM's behavior suddenly becomes clearer to me. To give some background, my city requires evidence of wrongdoing or unreasonable behavior on the part of either spouse before divorce can proceed. I suddenly realize why MM has been so very careful about our behavior together since quite some time back... We really do absolutely nothing other than chat and have lunch, so even if W hired a private detective to follow both of us round the clock, there would be zero evidence... And come to think of it, he had been quite jumpy the last couple of times anyone happened to stand still near the car.

 

On hindsight now, I realize that he must have had a d day or maybe more than one d day with W. She probably threatened to divorce him and take their son with her... And as a SAHM, he would probably have to give her a significant portion of his assets and monthly maintenance, not to mention that chances are very high that custody would be granted to her, and she would take him back to Canada with her. Unless he moved to Canada too, he would likely see his son less than 3 weeks a year...

 

This would explain a LOT of his behavior and all the increased restrictions he set for us. I don't know whether to be happy or sad now.. Happy because he obviously couldn't give me up and continued seeing me despite the stress he must have been having at home, and not being able to talk to me about it either because he didn't want to worry me.. Or sad because now I have to drop the news on him that I can't see him for the next 2-3 months at least. We can at best chat via text or i can go see him for short meetings within our office. I worry H will send a private detective to follow me around if he somehow suspects another man and I don't want MM dragged into the mess. I don't care if my reputation is dragged through mud, but MM has to remain untouched. It's so sad that for his own good, I'm not allowed to have lunch with him anymore for a while... Lawyer's orders say that it's for my own good too not to see MM so that H doesn't have any ammunition to throw at me when dividing assets..

 

Sigh... I guess this temporary separation will be a test of our relationship, if we can last through this, our love is stronger for it. If we can't last, then MM's professed love for me is just smoke and shadows.

[anika99]

This is the best decision I've made in years! I feel free and stronger now than I've been in a very long time and can't wait to meet the lawyer whom my friend will introduce to me next week!

 

I can't wait to be free now that I've made up my mind on what to do!

 

After I get the divorce settled, I'll talk to MM seriously about our future. If he still wants me in his life, I will be willing (reluctantly but yes, willing) to be his secret second family if that's what it takes for us to be together. But if not, I will ask him for his permission to leave and look for someone else. I know he will not try to selfishly keep me by his side if he really can't see any future for us. I am actually worried that he will wish me all the best and let me leave...when I don't want to leave him because I love him more than anyone else or anything in this world...

 

To other MMs, what would be your consideration to have a second family? What would you want from the OW for the arrangement to work? Financial considerations can be excluded as I will not ask for support from MM in this aspect, I'm working and can support myself and our child (if any).

 

One more question to other MMs.. Should I tell my MM before proceeding to divorce H or tell MM later after its all settled? Whatever MM says, my decision will still proceed, just that I feel weird not telling him about such a big decision in my life, but I don't know if I should tell him now or later..I worry if i tell him now that he might get the wrong idea that I want him to do the same (for the record, im not and wont ask him to divorce W) and add more stress to him... He's on a family vacation now and won't read any texts from me until he is back 2 weeks later...

 

 

Let me see if I got this right. You will ask the MM if he wants you in his life and if he says yes you will happily remain his dirty secret and even have his children and you will happily let him treat your children as dirty little secrets too while not expecting him to take any financial responsibility for is dirty little secrets. If he says he doesn't want you in his life you will ask for his permission to see other men. Is that right? When people tell you they don't want you in their life do normally ask for their permission to see other people? Or their approval or whatever else you want to call it?

 

 

Your plan to have children with this man is selfish and irresponsible. How will you feel when he goes on family vacations with his family but he treats your kids like they don't even exist. How do you think that will make your kids feel?

 

 

On hindsight now, I realize that he must have had a d day or maybe more than one d day with W. She probably threatened to divorce him and take their son with her... And as a SAHM, he would probably have to give her a significant portion of his assets and monthly maintenance, not to mention that chances are very high that custody would be granted to her, and she would take him back to Canada with her. Unless he moved to Canada too, he would likely see his son less than 3 weeks a year...

 

This would explain a LOT of his behavior and all the increased restrictions he set for us. I don't know whether to be happy or sad now.. Happy because he obviously couldn't give me up and continued seeing me despite the stress he must have been having at home, and not being able to talk to me about it either because he didn't want to worry me.

 

You are making stuff up in your head to justify how little you get from this man. You are pretending to yourself that the MM desperately wants to be spend more time with you but his big ogre wife is keeping him from his true love. While he is away enjoying his vacation with his family and probably hardly even thinking of you, your are writing this whole harlequin romance in your head. If you and the MM were so connected and in love you would not be left to guess at these things, he would be telling you all about it. The fact that you are making up these things in your head really illustrates that you are not very close to the MM at all. If you were he would have told you all about his Dday.

 

 

I think you really need to aim higher for yourself. You feel great about getting divorced but if you divorce and then spend your life waiting for time and attention from an MM you will be no happier than you were in your marriage. When you are free of your marriage and truly single you will want a lot more from your MM than you're getting right now and you will be in pain because the more you need the less MM will give you. I think it's a big mistake to divorce and have no greater plans then to be used by another man.

[Versailles]

My MM is finally back at work after his family vacation and we finally got to spend some time together he only just got a chance to read the texts I sent him earlier about my divorce. The first thing he told me when we met was that he was so sorry he had not been there for me when I was initiating D. He gave me a hug and told me that he loved me, he held my hand almost the whole time without letting it go. He even specially brought me to an extra nice restaurant for lunch where he knew it was quiet and discreet and we could talk and relax without worrying about seeing anyone else.

 

To my big relief, his reaction at hearing the news of my D was not to pull away from me. Instead he told me to tell him if I needed any help in anything and to make sure I stayed safe and to make sure I take good care of myself. Actually he admitted that he was not sure how he should react to my news... But he knows that he loves me and he wants us to continue to see each other for now.

 

He then admitted that he has been feeling very confused over the past few months after his mother in law was diagnosed with a terminal illness. He has finally felt for the first time in many years that he has a common topic with W other than his son and the whole incident drew them closer together... At the moment, his MIL is still receiving treatment but nobody knows whether she will take a turn for the worse.. Plus he has also had a lot of things happening in his life the same few months... But he knows his love for me is very real and he had never stopped loving me.. He mentioned that he has always been a good decision maker and had never had any doubt in his innate capabilities but for the first time in his life he is feeling extremely inadequate and he is lost and has no idea how to manage his emotions... He has been trying to sort himself out emotionally but he has made little to no progress over these months.. He then trailed off and went silent while looking lost...

 

I asked him if he could share more about what happened, what else was there other than his MIL's health problem? But he said he would share more bit by bit over time as he wasn't ready to talk today..

 

Can anyone share if you had a similar experience as my MM? You had a family event that brought you and your spouse closer than before? Then how do you feel about A if you still love AP? What is going through your mind?

 

I will of course wait for my MM to digest the news of my D and sort out his own feelings about W, MIL, life in general, etc. But meanwhile, I do want to understand what others read into all his responses. What does he mean by he can't manage his emotions? Why did he trail off while talking about this? What is going through his mind? I want to understand so that I can know how I can best help him.. I feel so sad seeing him look so lost...

 

And for the cynical.. I do understand that if an MM were devious, this could all just be some evil tactic to make sure I don't run away now that I am free.. But I really doubt my MM is like that... He won't play such games..

[clevelander321]

Seem like a classic marriage rewrite by a cheating spouse. It was all bad, he was abusive, were with him 11 years and was all just horrible.. Until you start an affair, and it is fun, exciting, wonderful and all you have to think about is sex. Then you decide it is time to divorce..

 

Once the brain chemicals of an affair start kicking in, it seems people lose all sense of logic and reality.. Even wanting to have a secret family with a married guy?

 

I went through the same, and my cheating wife somehow twisted every experience we ever had into a negative so she wouldn't techically be a "cheater".

 

I guarantee if you were with this other man for 11 years it would be the same.. Not much sex, he is seeking other women to have sex with, and you probably would be to.