My first day of online dating.

[MidwestUSA]

Not sure if this will happen to you, but I just got a profile visit tonight from someone I wrote to two weeks ago.

 

Yea, sorry for the delay. I wasn't getting good 4G from my vehicle for a bit there. Must be sunspots or something.

[serial muse]

 

Perhaps I am overestimating my looks level. I'm no prize for sure but nobody I messaged was really over a 5. Maybe one or two of the girls was a 6 depending on who you asked. I don't want to get too deep into the league thing, but it does make a difference, let's be real.

 

If I was as low as a 3, should I expect a woman who is a 5 to message me back?

 

There have been umpteen plus one threads on the "looks level" idea so I don't want to start that again, but I will say that I suspect women just aren't using the same 10-point scale that you are using. They certainly don't say to themselves "I am a 5, I should respond to a 5, I will consider a 4 and be overjoyed by a 6."

 

Sure, looks matter, but this kind of arbitrary number system is basically meaningless and I worry that it's in the way of success. Why did you only pick what you consider to be 5s? Go for the 6s, too, you'll up your odds. Hell, why not the 7s, whatever they are? What I'm saying is, please don't get stuck on this arbitrary number thing, it's not going to make your life easier.

 

I dunno. Many guys seem to really obsess about this number scale concept and it seems such a waste of energy. It doesn't seem to help anybody in any way, just acts as a kind of barrier to action. I can't say that, for all the posts I've read about it, I've ever seen one guy talk about how it helped him find somebody.

Edited December 1, 2014 by serial muse

[FitChick]

Take a pic of you standing next to a nice car, whether it's yours or not.

[jcrew11]

a lot of women and men on Match are unpaid - that means they can't respond, or they signed up years ago and are probably married by now. Take photos of yourself at fun places. Women like men who have affluent lifestyles and do other stuff besides taking selfies in the bathroom. take a photo with a handful of benjamins.

 

just try to message the ugliest women on the site to boost your ego.

[Phoe]

Women don't usually agree with the idea of leagues. Also, most women I know who are 5's act like they are 8's. All they have to do is post a picture on Facebook, get 100 likes, and have everyone tell them how beautiful they are. It's no wonder they think like they do.

 

 

 

It's not a barrier at all. Any average looking guy constantly hitting on bikini models would be like someone with a high school diploma trying to get a job as a surgeon...just not happening. The idea of leagues helps a lot of people find someone, myself included. Instead of being one of those unrealistic people always hitting on 10's and staying perpetually single, I found a nice, sweet girl to spend my time with.

 

Sure, people can somewhat be classified, looks wise, on a number scale. But there will always be a certain amount of subjectiveness to it. One person's 5 could be another person's 8.

 

Also, despite whatever someone's "number" averages out to be, there's no telling how far they might deviate from their own number. An 8 doesn't necessarily only date 8's and above.

 

I consider myself a 7 on a normal day and I've dated 4's. There's no set rule.

[JuneJulySeptember]

There have been umpteen plus one threads on the "looks level" idea so I don't want to start that again, but I will say that I suspect women just aren't using the same 10-point scale that you are using. They certainly don't say to themselves "I am a 5, I should respond to a 5, I will consider a 4 and be overjoyed by a 6."

 

Sure, looks matter, but this kind of arbitrary number system is basically meaningless and I worry that it's in the way of success. Why did you only pick what you consider to be 5s? Go for the 6s, too, you'll up your odds. Hell, why not the 7s, whatever they are? What I'm saying is, please don't get stuck on this arbitrary number thing, it's not going to make your life easier.

 

I dunno. Many guys seem to really obsess about this number scale concept and it seems such a waste of energy. It doesn't seem to help anybody in any way, just acts as a kind of barrier to action. I can't say that, for all the posts I've read about it, I've ever seen one guy talk about how it helped him find somebody.

 

First off, let me me say that I did not do it that way. I was automatically screened out by race and height and from what I had left, I picked some women who might be compatible profile wise. What was left just happened to be women who ranged between 4 and 6 or so.

 

Now, that does not mean they are a 4 or 6 TO ME, just that is what I imagine them to be in a consensus sense. I should also say that a ton, probably the majority of women fall between 4 and 7. Consensus.

 

Anyway, the short answer is that if I go for 7 and 8s, I just really cannot compete. They typically screen me out by height anyway.

 

One woman who looked at my profile months ago before I paid was like a 7.5/8. This really cute Jewish girl. I really can't even see it.

 

I can at least see me and some of the other women, even if they can't.

[jcrew11]

I beg to differ. I've been turned down by devout Christian woman who admittedly told me she wasn't physically attracted.

 

are you also a devout christian? are you able to meet single women at your church?

 

Many Jewish sinagogues have singles nights. My jewish friend used to attend those.

[jcrew11]

First off, let me me say that I did not do it that way. I was automatically screened out by race and height and from what I had left, I picked some women who might be compatible profile wise. What was left just happened to be women who ranged between 4 and 6 or so.

 

Now, that does not mean they are a 4 or 6 TO ME, just that is what I imagine them to be in a consensus sense. I should also say that a ton, probably the majority of women fall between 4 and 7. Consensus.

 

Anyway, the short answer is that if I go for 7 and 8s, I just really cannot compete. They typically screen me out by height anyway.

 

One woman who looked at my profile months ago before I paid was like a 7.5/8. This really cute Jewish girl. I really can't even see it.

 

I can at least see me and some of the other women, even if they can't.

 

You're going to have more luck with Jewish girls. A lot of Jewish girls face discrimination by white christian guys, so these Jewish girls will be more open-minded to dating non-white non-christian men.

 

A lot of Jewish men choose to date Asian women because they want a girl who will convert to Judaism or at least non-christian. A lot of christian girls want to raise their children as christians, but many Jewish guys want to raise their children as Jewish, its a hundreds of years conflict.

[guest569]

. Instead of being one of those unrealistic people always hitting on 10's and staying perpetually single, I found a nice, sweet girl to spend my time with.

 

A nice sweet 5 out of 10 girl? Lucky her!

[serial muse]

Women don't usually agree with the idea of leagues. Also, most women I know who are 5's act like they are 8's. All they have to do is post a picture on Facebook, get 100 likes, and have everyone tell them how beautiful they are. It's no wonder they think like they do.

 

 

 

It's not a barrier at all. Any average looking guy constantly hitting on bikini models would be like someone with a high school diploma trying to get a job as a surgeon...just not happening. The idea of leagues helps a lot of people find someone, myself included. Instead of being one of those unrealistic people always hitting on 10's and staying perpetually single, I found a nice, sweet girl to spend my time with.

 

It's not about "agreeing" with the idea of leagues. I'm talking about an arbitrary number scale. And the plain fact is, women don't generally think of men in that number system way. Sure, women might think they're out of a guy's league or that a guy is out of theirs. But I have never in all my life heard a bunch of women sitting around assigning numbers to guys, and deciding whether or not they'd date them based on those numbers.

 

JJS is suggesting that somehow these numbers help organize things, just as many guys have done before. Perhaps they do, in your minds. But even as he says this system isn't a barrier, and even as you say it, you both suggest that there are women you won't contact because of this scale. So that puts the lie to that assertion. I think this way of framing things is limiting and counterproductive. OLD is limiting enough as it is. The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of women aren't going to respond, whether you think they're a 5 or a 10. That's because yes, they're getting inundated. So you're better off ignoring the number business and just focusing on whether you think they seem interesting enough to get to know.

 

And, by the way, the subtext to what you're both saying is that you're willing to "settle" for these so-called 5s. That is why women tend to "disagree" with this way of framing things. Because it's insulting. No two ways about it.

 

But since I don't really have a dog in this hunt - I'm coupled up and well out of the dating game - I'm sincerely just trying to help the OP. I think his obsession with looks and arbitrary ratings (even if he doesn't personally "agree" with them, he's still bound by what he is convinced that others think) is in his way. Read his past posts and you'll see what I mean.

Edited December 2, 2014 by serial muse

[Ready2DateAgain]

Sure, people can somewhat be classified, looks wise, on a number scale. But there will always be a certain amount of subjectiveness to it. One person's 5 could be another person's 8.

 

Also, despite whatever someone's "number" averages out to be, there's no telling how far they might deviate from their own number. An 8 doesn't necessarily only date 8's and above.

 

I consider myself a 7 on a normal day and I've dated 4's. There's no set rule.

 

7 on a normal day,so when you trow on a dress and heels you feel like a 10? then that's when you decide that 4 or 7's are up to your standard ,smh

[JuneJulySeptember]

A nice sweet 5 out of 10 girl? Lucky her!

 

It's kind of the way life is. Do you think you are as hot as Olivia Wilde?

 

I am screened out of 90-95% of women's profiles before they even take a look at my mug, so it is not like women are random with their attraction. It's just as systematic whether they use #s or not. I would argue more systematic.

 

There was a woman I saw who is super cute to me. Perfect. But in reality consensus, she is a 6, 6.5 at best. Olivia Wilde is hot to me too, but in my reality, the difference between that woman and her is negligible.

[SJC2008]

If BBWs are messaing average/cute chunky guys, who are average or above women messaging? Don't waste your time OP.

 

Of the 14ish women I had dates with from online, 3 were in my league. I was average/cute. Now I'm moderately overqeight.

[Ready2DateAgain]

I had a girl message me thanking me for stopping by on her OLD profile on POF,you can actually see who stops by your profile,I was going to message her but I assume she'd be like the rest who just ignore me so I made no effort thus why I didn't make 1st contact .What should I do now ?

[serial muse]

The perfect woman for me would be someone who looks like Megan Fox, has sex like a porn star, has Oprah's money, can cook like Giada de Laurentis, has a medical degree, likes to play video games, and loves giving me a bj. I'm pretty sure she doesn't exist, and neither does the perfect guy most of the women who refuse to settle are looking for.

 

...which just goes to show that men are insulted by the idea of women "settling" for them too. If only I had a nickel for every time I've read a post by a guy complaining about women wanting a "perfect guy". (not true)

 

Anyway.

 

 

Guys don't either. It's not that we wouldn't date them, we just know that they probably won't date us.

 

OK, but see, this is exactly my point! You don't know that. You are making an arbitrary distinction based on how you think other guys are rating a particular woman. You are driven by herd mentality.

 

When men see those women dating tall, rich, really good looking guys, we can be pretty sure she won't be interested in us.

 

but you don't know this about a woman you're seeing on OLD. So this doesn't compute.

 

That might not stop me from hitting on a girl if I find her interesting

 

...

 

I would still contact a woman who is most likely out of my league, because I have no fear of rejection.

 

well, good.

 

However, unlike many people who totally fail at dating, I don't always go for people out of my league, keep failing, then deny that leagues exist.

 

My observation, and one that I have yet to see proven wrong here on LS, is that the guys who spend the most time and energy trumpeting this idea are not finding greater success as a result of it, and it's likely preventing them from contacting as many women as they might otherwise do. Yet they persist in saying that it's important somehow to their success to quantify looks and rate themselves and women according to an arbitrary scale (which, again, has more to do with how other men see women and men than with how women do). This, to me, is denying reality.

 

With OLD, her looks had almost everything to do with whether or not she would respond. Any girl I messed who was a 3 or 4 responded. Every last one. Some of the average looking women responded, but many did not. I may have gotten one response out of all the messages I sent to all of the exceptionally attractive women.

 

Again, I frankly haven't a clue what you mean by a 3 or 4 - that is your arbitrary scale. I have never denied, and in fact have said several times that I don't deny, that looks matter! Of course they do. But I think the more time people spend obsessing over ratings systems and minutiae of this nature it becomes increasingly counterproductive, and frankly, is a pretty unattractive attitude.

Edited December 2, 2014 by serial muse

[sillyanswer]

We hear all kinds of women say they want a nice guy, with a sense of humor for a serious relationship, but in reality, many of those perpetually single women who say they want those things are deciding to turn down that guy they say they want in favor of a hot guy who will have sex with them and then ghost.

 

The nice guy they want probably still has to be someone they find attractive! Merely being nice and funny, unsurprisingly, often doesn't cut it. Why do you think it should?

[ascendotum]

...which just goes to show that men are insulted by the idea of women "settling" for them too. If only I had a nickel for every time I've read a post by a guy complaining about women wanting a "perfect guy". (not true) Anyway.

It really depends on how the person deals with what they ended up with. Have they comes to terms with it, are they prepared to make the best of it, and do they see the positives in the person, despite that person not living up to their ideals. If they are with the person out of desperation or fear of being single then regret it or pine for past lovers or take their frustration on their partner because they feel they deserved better, then being settled for sucks. Both sides risk being settled for, though I feel the way the relationship market has changed over the last 30 yrs, that guys now risk it more than what women once might have.

 

OK, but see, this is exactly my point! You don't know that. You are making an arbitrary distinction based on how you think other guys are rating a particular woman. You are driven by herd mentality.

lol. women are influenced more in their desires by other women/popular culture then men. Guy's know their chances with a particular woman based on their past life experiences interacting with many women and different types of women. An average guy will know he has less chance of getting anywhere with a very attractive woman not because his friends or other guys on the www say its tough but because of past experience trying to chat them up or from contacting them on OLD. The vast majority of guys don't care if their best mate thinks the woman they find stunning is only average. If a guy doesn't think in the mainstream when it comes to what he thinks is attractive then that's good. What he thinks is hot wont have been inundated with offers or likely have relationships/flings with more attractive/accomplished guy's so will be more willing to consider him, than dismiss him, with 'you wish' or 'azzz if' or 'Ive f'ked way better than you'. (I've got those before) Edited December 3, 2014 by ascendotum

[Phoe]

7 on a normal day,so when you trow on a dress and heels you feel like a 10? then that's when you decide that 4 or 7's are up to your standard ,smh

 

Not sure what you're saying on the last part.

 

 

I feel like a 7 most days. A 6 with no makeup and hair up, an 8 if I'm all dolled up.

 

 

Regardless of how I feel on a day it doesn't change how I look at men or who I would date. That stays the same regardless of how I look. I don't judge men on their looks, whether I'm dolled up or in sweats.

[jcrew11]

A lot of women, especially actresses can look like 10's with a lot of makeup and fake eyelashes.

 

But if you've ever seen Jen Lawrence or other "hot" actresses without makeup, they look very plain and average 5's.

 

Women with dyed blonde hair look hotter to some men, like cameron diaz. But in real life, cameron doesn't look that great. Its the magic of movie lighting.

 

In that same sense, men can also look better by improving their facial skin, removing blemishes, styling hair with gel, etc.

[JuneJulySeptember]

The nice guy they want probably still has to be someone they find attractive! Merely being nice and funny, unsurprisingly, often doesn't cut it. Why do you think it should?

 

Right.

 

So, if you're a woman and you're a 5, you want a man who is a 6 or a 7, but at the very, very least a 5. Especially online, you won't settle.

 

That is what I was talking about. So, where does anybody differ?

[Rejected Rosebud]

Right.

 

So, if you're a woman and you're a 5, you want a man who is a 6 or a 7, but at the very, very least a 5. Especially online, you won't settle.

 

That is what I was talking about. So, where does anybody differ?

I think you're really going to have to ditch this idea about the numbers and all that and just look for girls you like stuff about online and go ahead and email them. Just do that and keep doing it and if you feel like talking about how all the 5's like the 7's or whatever, jump into an ice cold shower immediately!

[guest569]

You're either attracted to someone or you're not!!! To me, the guy I "settle" for is a 10. No, I wouldn't aim for a 5 because to me that means I am looking at them as 'just OK' or 'I could have sex with him without vomiting, but meh'.

 

I expect the same from men who date me. I am not going to be someone's lousy backup plan.

 

And no I am not 'perpetually single'.

[sillyanswer]

Right.

 

So, if you're a woman and you're a 5, you want a man who is a 6 or a 7, but at the very, very least a 5. Especially online, you won't settle.

 

That is what I was talking about. So, where does anybody differ?

 

I'm not sure that I subscribe to the whole "numbers" thing, but if you're saying that an average-looking woman might want to find a man who is average to above average-looking, especially online, then yes I agree with you. I think the same is true for when swapping "woman" for "man" in there (and noting that I added "might" because clearly not everybody is the same and I'm not trying to speak for everybody).

 

The "especially online" thing makes sense, too, for 2 reasons: dating sites/apps are visual in nature - it's all about the photos, and the option to quickly see a large variety of photos in a short space of time makes it easy to make comparative judgements about appearance. Contrast that to meeting someone in person in a day-to-day setting and you don't get to see those bikini shots, those wearing-a-pretty-dress-as-a-wedding-guest shots, those professionally taken model shots (or whatever the male equivalents are of those sorts of pics) but you do get a glimpse of mannerisms, grace, deportment, voice/accent, the way they interact with people, perhaps even scent. Far more than carefully selected photos.

 

Online dating works best (at least at the stage up to meeting in person) for people who have good photos, which should surprise nobody.

[Shining One]

I expect the same from men who date me. I am not going to be someone's lousy backup plan.

Unfortunately, reality rarely works this way. How can you be sure that you're a man's first choice? You could simply be the first one that said "yes" at that time. I can only think of two occasions in my life in which my first choice accepted me. Of course, this changes if you're the one doing the approaching.

[guest569]

Unfortunately, reality rarely works this way. How can you be sure that you're a man's first choice? You could simply be the first one that said "yes" at that time. I can only think of two occasions in my life in which my first choice accepted me. Of course, this changes if you're the one doing the approaching.

 

I agree and this has been my experience unfortunately with online dating, but more a case of my first choice dating 10 diff women before decidng. I wonder if this would be different with real world dating, as they might be less likely to be multi dating?