Personality of WS's Not Always What You'd Think?

[fellini]

I imagine it's pretty obvious that the more attributes of NPD one has, the more LIKELY one is to cheat, because, well, those attributes do not PREVENT one from cheating.

 

But I think it's a mistake to say that Narcissism LEADS to cheating.

People who have healthy or minimal traits of N also can cheat. Probably they simply have a harder time justifying it.

 

Personally I put those who exhibit strong N tendencies in the same boat as "sex addicts". They need treatment, not talking to about moral values. It's a waste of time to try to convince an addict he/she is wrong or a N, because it's not about right/wrong, it's in their character. Its as ineffective tell an N to stop cheating as it is to tell a child that candy is not good for them.

 

So what has anything - self-esteem high or low, inhibitors, entitlements, childhood issues - to do with the "creation" of a cheater. For me none of that is helpful. A cheater is a person who knowingly steps across a very clearly defined agreement (implicit or explicit) not to cross. And they do.

 

Recently I had to travel back to my home country and spend a week living with my ex-W in order to provide home care for our mutual son who had just had an operation. I can assure you that none of the indicators of cheaters described here mattered to me. I had no intention, nor thoughts, nor imaginations, of cheating. I am able to give my ex a hug without a tinge or pang of dopamine generation. It's just not going to happen.

 

But my WS was incapable of receiving a warm hug from a colleague without jumping to the conclusion, on that day, that there was something there.

 

As a BS I would love to think I only need to name those traits that lead to infidelity so that we could go to MC together and eliminate them. But I am most certain, almost 2 years into recovery, that I would be wasting my time.

 

The question for me is how to get my WS to feel about me what I feel for her, and what I simply DON'T feel for my EX even when thrust into a situation where I am way past boundary discussions - and none of remotely affected me.

 

 

 

 

 

Re: traits of WS, here's an interesting tidbit (book/author/publisher credit below):

 

In a study of 16,288 people in fifty-two nations (spanning North America, South America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Oceania, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and East Asia), psychologist David Schmitt found that two personality traits were linked to sexual variety seeking in women— extraversion and impulsiveness. Extraversion describes individuals who are sociable, gregarious, and thrive on social interaction . Impulsiveness describes those who leap before they look, act on the spur of the moment, and have less inhibition about acting on their urges. The study showed that the more extraverted and impulsive women were, the more likely they were to seek sexual variety. Similarly, a study of 107 married couples conducted in the Buss Evolutionary Psychology Lab found that impulsivity was linked to infidelity in women. But an even greater predictor was the personality trait of narcissism—a personality cluster defined by the attributes of being self-centered , grandiose, and exhibitionistic, feeling a strong sense of entitlement , arrogance, and being interpersonally exploitative.

 

Buss, David M.; Meston, Cindy M. (2009-08-28). Why Women Have Sex: Understanding Sexual Motivations from Adventure to Revenge (and Everything in Between) (Kindle Locations 3172-3180). Henry Holt and Co.. Kindle Edition.

 

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I am reading the above excellent book and two of the three traits sound very common on this forum:

1> Narcissism: There are entire threads of WS (mostly WWs) berating themselves on their transgressions yet one can't help but notice the self-serving tone of these threads...they are all narcissistic. No doubt this is the #1 sign to watch out for in a prospective mate w/r/t potential cheating in future.

 

2> Impulsive: This fits in with the "it just happened", "one thing led to another" litany of excuses, where the WS just goes for it.

 

3> Extroversion: I don't think this is true. One can be an introvert and still be narcissistic and impulsive.

[elaine567]

"Narcissists are misogynists. They hold women in contempt, they loathe and fear them. They seek to torment and frustrate them (either by debasing them sexually - or by withholding sex from them). They harbor ambiguous feelings towards the sexual act.

 

The somatic narcissist uses sex to "conquer" and "secure" new sources of narcissistic supply. Consequently, the somatic rarely gets emotionally-involved with his "targets". His is a mechanical act, devoid of intimacy and commitment. The cerebral narcissist feels that sex is demeaning and degrading. Acting on one's sex drive is a primitive, basic, and common impulse. The cerebral narcissist convinces himself that he is above all that, endowed as he is with superior intelligence and superhuman self-control.

 

Still, sex for both types of narcissists is an instrument designed to increase the number of Sources of Narcissistic Supply. If it happens to be the most efficient weapon in the narcissist's arsenal, he makes profligate use of it. In other words: if the narcissist cannot obtain adoration, admiration, approval, applause, or any other kind of attention by other means (e.g., intellectually) – he resorts to sex."

Narcissists, Sex and Fidelity - The Somatic Narcissist, The Asexual Cerebral Narcissist, Extramarital Affairs, and Paraphilias

[fellini]

My first gut response is that quote is written by a woman. And that woman has one narcissistic trait that doesn't allow her to imagine there are women narcissists.

 

Im not at all convinced by this definition nor operational aspects of somatic or cerebral narcissists. There are other more subtle descriptions that make more sense to me. There is no reason why a cerebral narcissist has to have an ambiguous understanding of sex. It is always and only about ONE THING: Narcissistic supply and hence, having sources of NS. Just because one's sources of NS are intellectual notions of grandeur, it does not require that they we imagine some concomitant perverse attitude about having sex with anyone. If one is getting one's supply through their intellectual sources why must they not have a healthy attitude towards sex? And why must a narcissist be misogynist just because they get their NS through physical acts of sex, pleasure, being pleased? Seems to me that there might be extreme cases, but Narcissists might also be into S&M, and although it's not my thing, who am I to judge it and make an essentialist connect of it to narcissism if other non narcissistic people also practice it?

 

"Narcissists are misogynists. They hold women in contempt, they loathe and fear them. They seek to torment and frustrate them (either by debasing them sexually - or by withholding sex from them). They harbor ambiguous feelings towards the sexual act.

 

The somatic narcissist uses sex to "conquer" and "secure" new sources of narcissistic supply. Consequently, the somatic rarely gets emotionally-involved with his "targets". His is a mechanical act, devoid of intimacy and commitment. The cerebral narcissist feels that sex is demeaning and degrading. Acting on one's sex drive is a primitive, basic, and common impulse. The cerebral narcissist convinces himself that he is above all that, endowed as he is with superior intelligence and superhuman self-control.

 

Still, sex for both types of narcissists is an instrument designed to increase the number of Sources of Narcissistic Supply. If it happens to be the most efficient weapon in the narcissist's arsenal, he makes profligate use of it. In other words: if the narcissist cannot obtain adoration, admiration, approval, applause, or any other kind of attention by other means (e.g., intellectually) – he resorts to sex."

Narcissists, Sex and Fidelity - The Somatic Narcissist, The Asexual Cerebral Narcissist, Extramarital Affairs, and Paraphilias

Edited December 8, 2014 by fellini

[autumnnight]

I think WHILE THEY ARE CHEATING people having affairs have a lot of traits in common especially narcissistic ones. BUT I think that it is simplistic and short sighted to assume there's some kind of cheating gene or box they all fit into as general people even though I know some people feel better thinking that.