Having a very difficult time...

[Pascoe]

Lostdreams... Thank you so much for the suggestions.

 

I have already written out a list of all of the things I did not like about her and all of the things I feel she did that caused the demise of our relationship. I believe it helped for a couple of hours.

 

What has me lost is now why am I so intently focused on all of the things I did wrong? Why am I feeling as if it were me that failed in dealing with her demands?

 

I was thinking earlier about when she told me she was going to move out. I thought I fully understood "it was over". I was anxious and gloomy but not like I have been once I found out she was seeing someone else. Even typing the words "she is seeing someone else" puts a shot of adrenaline through me... Is this normal?

[Michael 93]

Definitely agree with Lostdreams..

 

Get rid of everything that is linked with her, one bit at a time.

Also to re-arrange and re-decorate your house is an excellent idea, it will give you a project to focus on and once achieved it will give you a great sense of happiness.

 

You are a better case Pascoe. Many people suffer in serious ways on this board whereas you are much much more calm and thinking clearer. You should be very proud for the way you are handling this.

 

Now is the time to focus your energies on you. From the things you have said, you two shared an incredible bond. And I would suggest rather than focus on all of the negatives and bad traits, focus on the good (yes it will hurt) but understand this woman gave you the chance to love and reach a completely different emotional level within yourself. Be happy about that, be happy for the times you shared and don't hate, but appreciate what you had together. You may of had arguments, but believe me if somebody thinks you are worth it, they will not just give up on you. People as human beings don't do that.

 

For now give 100% space, not even a smoke trail of how you are doing and work on yourself, one day she may come back and say woah you look really good, I love what you did with the place, woah you went to Venice? it looks so beautiful there!

 

Or then again... She may not, but by then you will be in a much better place emotionally to attract the next time of person in your life.

 

Spend time with friends and get things planned. This is just the beginning of a new chapter for you.

 

Mike

[Pascoe]

Mike, excellent suggestions regarding work around the house and some decorating. There are so many projects I have been putting off. I guess now is as good a time as any to start getting on them.

 

I had a very "up and down" day at the office. There were some "lows" but not as low as it has been and there were actually some times that I felt like my "old self". However, there is definitely an empty space in me. Even the times today when I felt Ok it still felt there is just something missing.

 

I made the mistake of looking at her Facebook page while at the office. I know I should not but I could not help myself...

 

A short background regarding Facebook. We were "friends" on Facebook for a while last year. She and one of the people I work with started to argue over some innocent comments made by said friend. I explained to her it was perfectly innocent. I was angry at her starting a "Facebook argument" that the entire world can see. She, in turn, became enraged saying that I should support her and that I should be angry with my friend. I immediately "defriended" her. When we broke up for a month or so last September one of the conditions of getting back together was that I had to delete my Facebook page. I had no problem doing as I am not real big into Facebook anyway. I never said anything about her keeping her Facebook page up and running but she did...

 

Another quick Facebook story... Three years ago I was at a race in Indianapolis. We had qualifying Friday night and did not get back to the hotel until around midnight. She was unable to go to the race with me so a friend of mine went. I could tell she was upset that she could not go. The race in Indianapolis was our biggest race of the year and we had been planning to attend all year long. It was sort of a "last minute thing" as to why she could not go. Anyway, when we get back to the hotel my buddy calls his wife and I get out my laptop to check to see our qualifying position. My buddy tells me I need to get on Facebook right away. She has been on there all evening talking about how I don't make her a priority, etc... It was very embarrassing so I deleted all of her "posts" on my "wall". I immediately called her and ask "WTF are you doing?" and "why are you putting all of this stuff on Facebook?" She never would give me a straight answer. I believe the bottom line was that since she could not travel with me to Indianapolis she expected me to stay home and miss our biggest race of the year.

 

Anyway, I check her Facebook page today... Keep in mind we are not friends on Facebook and as far as she does not know I check her Facebook page. But she does not have private settings so I can see what she posts... I know, "stalker" right??? Well, she has posted a couple of "relationship quotes". The first being:

 

"Overthinking is what kills you every time"

 

The second - this one "cut" me:

 

"It takes a strong man to accept somebody else's children and step up to the plate another man left on the table."

 

The third - this one really "cut" deep:

 

"Somewhere between heartaches and waiting comes another chance to be found by someone who can show you that you are not just an option but the only choice".

 

Like I said, I don't know if she put them there with the intention of me seeing them or if it is just "entertainment" for her and her friends. But it does seem as if the quotes are regarding our relationship. Especially the last one... No matter what I did she would always tell me I did not make her a "priority". I would try to explain to her that if I did everything she wanted me to do that my entire life would revolve around her. I would explain to her that I would like to spend every moment with her but it was just not "realistically" possible.

 

What do you all think regarding the quotes?

[Lostdreams]

 

I was involved with a woman for 14 years. It was constantly "off and on" but we never really parted ways for more than a couple of weeks.

 

When our relationship was good it was very good, the best one could imagine. But within a few days it would be back to arguing. The arguments would be very bad with constant threats of breaking up coming from both sides.

 

I had extreme feelings of guilt regarding the affair and was concerned with how it would effect my children if we were to get married.

 

I was at a loss and did not know what to say.

 

In addition to my hesitancy of my guilt and issues surrounding the children she would constantly change residences.

 

She did move in with me back in 2011. That lasted about 8 months... I can't recall her specific reason for wanting to move out right now.

 

In June she moved back in with me. Within a couple of weeks things began to go down hill.

 

She left on her first assignment in September. The night before I told her that I really did not want her to leave but we would do whatever we needed to do to make it work.

 

About 10 days into her first assignment she tells me she is going to move out when she gets home.

 

She moved all of her things out at the end of October.

 

I check her phone and discover that she has been sending/receiving texts and calls from a guy who was a distant friend of mine. She has sent/received over 1500 texts from him since the 14th of this month as well has made/received many phone calls.

 

.

 

Pascoe I have just taken an extract of your words to review what a ride you have had for the last 14 years - it's a long time and for sure it leaves traces.

 

In all honesty this relationship was chaotic to say the least - I find myself wondering how much happiness it really brought you in the balance of good times and ....... "going downhill". Yes a good match in bed is important but so are a lot of other things

 

Your ex seems very unstable - moving houses with kids in tow with such frequency is not normal in my eyes.

 

It's good to look at yourself - to review what you can improve for next time - for me this is normal. To obsess over your "mistakes" and look for all your shortfalls and blame yourself for this relationship break-up is just insane. Like I said it takes two people to make a relationship work - understanding, patience, compromise, communication etc. - I think a lot of this was missing. From what I read in your words the relationship was never 100% healthy even from day one. Guilt about starting it, constant threats from both sides to walk away - a permanent push and pull ...... For me this this would be too draining - would I want to marry into it ? ........... definitely not.

 

I don't deny the connection you two shared ..... but I also don't know how you lived liked this for 14 years. You are having withdrawal symptoms from a long habit - brain chemistry is playing havoc with your moral and affecting your thought paths. Someone here shared this link which I found very helpful (and still find it) - please have a read

 

http://www.breakuprecoveryguide.com/Intro

 

I think its positive that you have been to counseling and I advise you to carry on to help you come through this phase and most importantly to prepare your future.

 

You have a good job and it seems a comfortable life - two kids to love and who will always keep you busy. For some people this is already a pie in the sky dream - take strength from it and the independence this offers you.

 

You won't see it today but I truly feel that you have finally gotten your life back - but YOU have to live and to believe it - to then see it as a new opportunity. Keep your chin up

[lil hoodlum]

 

Anyway, I check her Facebook page today... Keep in mind we are not friends on Facebook and as far as she does not know I check her Facebook page. But she does not have private settings so I can see what she posts... I know, "stalker" right??? Well, she has posted a couple of "relationship quotes". The first being:

 

"Overthinking is what kills you every time"

 

The second - this one "cut" me:

 

"It takes a strong man to accept somebody else's children and step up to the plate another man left on the table."

 

The third - this one really "cut" deep:

 

"Somewhere between heartaches and waiting comes another chance to be found by someone who can show you that you are not just an option but the only choice".

 

 

Seems she fancies herself as quite the prize doesn't she? Well let her present herself to the world and lets see how many knights on white horses show up to save/rescue her. Maybe if there is enough of them they can have a tournament or something.

[Pascoe]

Thanks guys... I have to say posting on this forum has helped immensely. I can not begin to thank you all enough for the words of the encouragement.

 

Tonight I was able to get out with my daughter again for some "practice" driving. We drove to my parents' house about an hour away. I knew she was going to have more questions so I was a little better prepared. For about the first 1/2 hour she did not even bring it up. Then she ask "Dad, have you heard from Miss Julie?" I told her "no, honey and like I said before I am sure I will not hear from her again". She then said "Dad, I hate Miss Julie". I responded by saying "honey, don't hate Miss Julie. I was not exactly nice all of the time in the relationship and I played a role in it ending". I don't want my daughter to "hate" her. She was always very kind and caring to my children when she was around them. I was just very cautious of her being involved heavily in my childrens' lives. The reason being is that I always felt that I never knew what she was going to do or react in a situation. The last thing I wanted was for my children to be involved in constant chaos.

 

That may have been one of the problems as to why we never really got to the point of getting married. I just could not give 100% of me into the relationship. I knew I loved her with all of my heart. I knew she was the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with... It just seemed everything was moving really fast. I was having a difficult time with the guilt of how the relationship began. I felt guilty for "breaking up" my family. I really needed to get over that guilt, which has never happened 100%, and make sure my children were Ok. I remember one day several years ago. One of the folks I work with came into my office after I had been on the phone arguing about getting married. My co-worker ask "why don't you just marry her now? I have never seen anyone love someone like you love that girl. When she walks in you visibly light up as soon as you see her". I told my co-worker of how I felt about how I thought my children would feel as is they were being "replaced" with her children if they were not Ok with the situation. Keep in mind, my children were young at the time. My co-worker then told me her parents divorced when she was young. She told me her Dad got remarried within a year to a woman who had a daughter one year older than she was. She said that while she never let on she was upset about it because that is exactly how she felt... like she had been replaced with her step mother's daughter. I don't mean to be "sexist" or to offend any of the women reading this thread but I believe it is easier for women to re-marry when children are involved. The reason being is that a large percentage of the time the children will be living with the mother. The customary "every other weekend" with Dad... So, the children live with the mother and the step-father 12 out of every 14 days. The children of the step father come to visit "Dad's new house" and they see that their step siblings are spending more time with their Dad than they are... I know children are resilient but I was not about to hurt my children any more than they had already been hurt by their mother and I being divorced.

 

The reason I could not give 100% was because I felt I was being pushed. Pushed to get through what I was trying to get over regarding my divorce, the source of the divorce and protecting my children from further heartache. She would just keep pushing and pushing and would not let it go. I never really had a chance to get over all of the what I was trying to deal with because I was also trying to keep our relationship together.

 

During the times of constant arguing about "when are we going to get married?" I was again trying to shield my children from this turmoil. As a result we never really spent as much time together as a blended family as we should have been able. Plans would get made and I would never tell my children about the plans until just about the last minute. I didn't want to tell them we were all going to do something together because I never knew if they were going to "fall through" due to her getting angry.

 

Now I am sure everyone reading is asking "why the hell did this guy stay in this situation for 14 years?" The situation would "calm" down and the relationship would be good for a while until marriage would come up...

 

I told her once that if, in the beginning of our relationship, she had just stopped talking about marriage all of the time for five years we would have been married several years ago. I told her "I know five years is a long time to not even think about being married but look at how much time has been wasted - much more than five years". Her response was "yeah right, you would have done something to get out of it".

 

I would often talk to my Mom about the situation. My Mom would always ask "why can't she just be happy? It is like she wants more, more, more".

[Pascoe]

Hey guys and gals... I know I have been posting on the forum quite a bit. Again I want to extend thanks to all for support and words of encouragement. It has helped more than I could ever have imagined.

 

Today was a rather "bad" day. I went to see my counselor. Just a bit of background regarding my counselor... My ex and I both went to her for "couples counseling". I don't recall if I mentioned it, or not, but after our first visit the counselor stated that the word "marriage" should not even be brought up for six months. The counselor suggested we work on our relationship and communication skills before talking about marriage. Of course, my ex brought up marriage with a few days and it was back to exactly like it was before...

 

When I returned to the office my brain was going at 100 mph. My ex was all I could think about and I was really feeling sort of lost. All I could think about was her being with someone else... The counselor could not believe she had moved on so fast to someone else. A few people from the office were going out tonight and invited me to go. They suggested it would be "good for me" to get out... I said to myself "I don't have to worry about the ex so why not?"

 

Let me tell you... I had a great time!!! It had really been a while since I had been out and just focused on having a good time. It had been so long that I could not remember what it was like. And right now I am still "lit" from the many beers I had... There was woman there who I used to work with several years ago. I always thought she was a pretty girl. She was there with a friend whom I thought was even prettier... I was on the dance floor with both of them for at least an hour. It was so much fun that I actually forgot for a while about the entire situation that I am experiencing.

 

Anyway, when I arrived home I turned up the stereo full blast and listened to some music. I really love music. Every song I have heard reminds me of something. One of my favorite bands is "Linkin Park". I am sure the words of Linkin Park's "Burning It Down" have been posted on this forum before but for those who are not familiar with Linkin Park below are the lyrics to "Burning It Down":

 

The cycle repeated

As explosions broke in the sky

All that I needed

Was the one thing I couldn't find

 

And you were there at the turn

Waiting to let me know

 

We're building it up

To break it back down

We're building it up

To burn it down

We can't wait

To burn it to the ground

 

The colors conflicted

As the flames climbed into the clouds.

I wanted to fix this

But couldn't stop from tearing it down.

 

And you were there at the turn

Caught in the burning glow

And I was there at the turn

Waiting to let you know

 

We're building it up

To break it back down

We're building it up

To burn it down

We can't wait

To burn it to the ground

 

You told me, "Yes"

You held me high

And I believed when you told that lie

I played soldier, you played king

And struck me down, when I kissed that ring

You lost that right, to hold that crown

I built you up, but you let me down

So when you fall, I'll take my turn

And fan the flames

As your blazes burn

 

And you were there at the turn

Waiting to let me know

 

We're building it up

To break it back down

We're building it up

To burn it down

We can't wait

To burn it to the ground

 

When you fall, I'll take my turn

And fan the flames

As your blazes burn

 

We can't wait

To burn it to the ground

 

When you fall, I'll take my turn

And fan the flames

As your blazes burn

 

We can't wait

To burn it to the ground

 

I know lyrics speak to the individual and each of us interprets them in their own way. I just feel "Burning it Down" speaks to me regarding the current situation. If you have not listened to "Linkin Park" check them out. It is "upbeat" music and can be inspirational. Another "Linkin Park" song that I feel speaks to me regarding my situation is "In the End". The lyrics are below:

 

It starts with one

One thing I don't know why

It doesn’t even matter how hard you try

Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme

To explain in due time

(All I know)

Time is a valuable thing

Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings

Watch it count down to the end of the day

The clock ticks life away

(It’s so unreal)

Didn’t look out below

Watch the time go right out the window

Trying to hold on but didn’t even know

I wasted it all just to watch you go

 

I kept everything inside and even though I tried, it all fell apart

What it meant to be will eventually be a memory of a time when...

 

I tried so hard

And got so far

But in the end

It doesn't even matter

I had to fall

To lose it all

But in the end

It doesn't even matter

 

One thing, I don’t know why

It doesn’t even matter how hard you try

Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme

To remind myself how

I tried so hard

In spite of the way you were mocking me

Acting like I was part of your property

Remembering all the times you fought with me

I’m surprised it got so far

Things aren’t the way they were before

You wouldn’t even recognize me anymore

Not that you knew me back then

But it all comes back to me

In the end

 

You kept everything inside and even though I tried, it all fell apart

What it meant to me will eventually be a memory of a time when...

 

I tried so hard

And got so far

But in the end

It doesn’t even matter

I had to fall

To lose it all

But in the end

It doesn’t even matter

 

I've put my trust in you

Pushed as far as I can go

For all this

There’s only one thing you should know

I've put my trust in you

Pushed as far as I can go

For all this

There’s only one thing you should know

 

I tried so hard

And got so far

But in the end

It doesn’t even matter

I had to fall

To lose it all

But in the end

It doesn’t even matter

 

Like I suggested if you like alternative rock and have not listed to "Linkin Park" check them out. They are uplifting...

 

I do have some more interpretations from the counselor that I will post up tomorrow but right now I am going to grab another beer or three and crank up the tunes.

[Pascoe]

Having a "so so" day today after a great night last night. It could be the slight hangover and rainy, gloomy day contributing to my mood.

 

I am holding out a slight hope that our paths will cross again. After 14 years of being told "I love you more", "you are stuck with me" and one of her favorites "you are lucky to have me because no one else would be able to put up with you" - she never said the last one in "angry times" it was more of a "joking around" tone - I still find it difficult to believe it is really over.

 

We have been through the breakups, moving out, moving back in, etc... so many times I guess I am hoping this is just another one. We had never, to the best of my knowledge, seen other people during our times "apart". I am trying to wrap my head around it and keep telling myself "maybe she is trying to send the ultimate wake up call"... Hell, I don't know...

 

Anyway, after discussing with the counselor her dating someone else the counselor says to me "this is not very therapeutic and probably will not make you feel better but remember 'what goes around comes around'"...

 

Again any comments, etc... are greatly appreciated. As I have stated several times this board has really helped.

[Pascoe]

Yesterday during counseling I ask the counselor "what could I have done to make it work?" We talked just about the entire session about the changes that could be done. The counselor, knowing both of us, said there is no doubt about the love the two of you share there is just no communication...

 

Anyway, after seeing the counselor I paid the cell phone bill. She left me with the last cell phone bill for her and all of her children. One that she was supposed to pay. I told her not to worry that I would take care of it... So after paying the cell phone bill I send her a text to let her know it was done and taken care of... I know I didn't have to but it was a way of having some form of contact. She replies by thanking me. I then ask her if we can talk. She says she is in the car and to call her. When I heard her voice I damn near lost it. I did not start crying but I ask her if we could talk later because I was at the office and was not composed. A couple of hours later she texts me to tell me she was in the car and asks me to call. We talked for a few minutes about how her new job was going, etc... She then said she could not talk any longer and ask if she could call me later. Of course, I said it was fine.

 

She called a couple of hours later and we talked about things. She told me she was hurt that I was not enthused about her new job and how I was not supportive of her. I never criticized her decision and but I confess was not that supportive. I was not happy that she was leaving two teenagers and three dogs with me for 21 out of 28 days. But I told her we would do whatever we had to do to make it work...

 

I told her how I was working on "me" and the things I needed to do to make it work. I told her that I did not want to ever be without her. I told her that I would marry her tomorrow because I did not want to be without her another day and that I wanted to marry her because I loved her and wanted to there for her. She said she thought it was great that I was working on me so that I did not make the same mistakes with someone else. I told her that I never wanted our relationship to go back to the way it was and that I believed we could work. She said "I just can't do that right now". She is living with her mother and told me "I just got back to my mother's and have to compose myself before I go in". Before we ended the call I told her I keep my phone with me and to call me anytime. We ended the call by telling one another "I'll talk to you later".

 

This morning at 9am I tried to call her and it went to her voicemail. I left her a message to call me back when she gets the chance. Two hours went by with no call. So I texted her and ask if she was Ok. She responded by saying "I am fine". A few more texts back and forth and she ended it by saying "I can't do this. You need to move on".

 

So now I am totally back in the ****ter... I don't know why I had any reason to believe there was hope. I guess I just felt that I could have enough strength for the both of us to get us through this. Now I have to face the true reality that it is over... I feel worse than I did before...

 

If anyone has any advice please post it up...

[NopeNah]

You have to stop contacting her! Stop! She has made it very clear.

[Pascoe]

You have to stop contacting her! Stop! She has made it very clear.

 

I know... I had a very serious look at myself. It is really eye opening when you can honestly answer the questions about yourself. There is still a long way to go but I am looking forward to the journey.

 

When I spoke to a couple of my friends about the situation that occurred Monday and yesterday with her they both said "she will eventually reach out to you" when it all falls apart for her. The first step was telling them "If she does there will be no response on my behalf. I am going on from this moment forward as if she is nothing more than a ghost."

 

I am sure there will be times and days that I slip back as has been evident in this thread. But I will stay strong.

[Downtown]

[she] may suffer from borderline personality disorder. Does it sound as if she was BPD?

Pascoe, I agree with you that the behaviors you describe -- neediness, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle, argumentative, blaming all unhappiness on you, always being "The Victim," and super sensitivity to harmless comments -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I also agree with LostDreams that these behaviors indicate emotional instability, which is the key defining feature of BPD.

 

Importantly, I not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may have strong traits of it. BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone exhibits all of these traits to some degree -- with some folks being higher on that spectrum than others. At issue, then, is not whether she exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits such traits so strongly that they are undermining her long-term relationships and pushing loved ones away. Not having met her, I cannot answer that question for you. I nonetheless can point you to a list of the red flags -- 18 BPD Warning Signs -- so you can decide, for yourself, whether you're seeing most of those signs. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If you would like to discuss this further, it would be very helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 warning signs strongly apply to her and which clearly do not.

[BlueIris]

I know... I had a very serious look at myself. It is really eye opening when you can honestly answer the questions about yourself. There is still a long way to go but I am looking forward to the journey.

 

When I spoke to a couple of my friends about the situation that occurred Monday and yesterday with her they both said "she will eventually reach out to you" when it all falls apart for her. The first step was telling them "If she does there will be no response on my behalf. I am going on from this moment forward as if she is nothing more than a ghost."

 

I am sure there will be times and days that I slip back as has been evident in this thread. But I will stay strong.

 

I agree with Praying4Daylight. Yes, move on. I think your decision to go forward as though she's a ghost is smart. It's really good that you have friends you can count on, too.

 

I disagree with the BPD analysis recommendation. Only 1-2% of the population have BPD and there are so many other possibilities for why the relationship didn’t work, it doesn’t make sense to waste time and energy on that. We aren’t capable of being objective about people close to us anyway, especially when we’re in pain, so it’s pointless and you’ll just spend more time fixated on her, and stuck.

 

Try your best to go No Contact to let yourself heal and catch your breath. Maybe start doing all of the things you’ve loved doing in your life, and get your core back. Spend more time with your kids, too. Loving them and making them feel solid in the change will make you all feel better.

 

I’m so sorry you’re hurting and hope all the best for you and your kids.

[Downtown]

Only 1-2% of the population have BPD...it doesn’t make sense to waste time and energy on that.

No, Iris, 6% of the population has BPD according to the only large scale study ever done to determine its prevalence. That study, in which therapists interviewed nearly 35,000 people face to face, was funded by the National Institute of Mental Health -- the institution which spends more on mental health research each year than any other organization in the world. See 2008 Study in JCP.

 

Because BPDers rarely form LTRs with other BPDers, they nearly always pair up with nonBPDers. This means that the portion of relationships having a BPDer is 12%. And, of course, the percent of UNHAPPY relationships we see here on LoveShack is much higher still.

 

Significantly, those are the relationships having folks with full-blown BPD. When you add in those meeting 80% or 90% of the diagnostic guidelines (thus "not having BPD") the percent of relationships affected by strong BPD traits is even higher.

 

it doesn’t make sense to waste time and energy on that [i.e., BPD].

Iris, within the past week, one of your attempts to shut down all discussion of BPD in another thread resulted in most of your post being deleted by a moderator. And the member who was the subject of your attack referred to you as "the thought police." When other members are trying to help an OP, it is inappropriate to trash their suggestions as a "waste of time and energy," as you just did to me. Instead of attacking with a broad-brush derogatory comment, when you find a mistake in what I'm saying, it is appropriate to identify that mistake and correct it. Significantly, you've made no effort to point out anything factually wrong in what I said above. Instead, you only try to shut down the discussion. Edited December 16, 2014 by Downtown

[William]

Since moderation was mentioned and a report issued on this thread, I'll offer my opinion as a moderator.

 

LoveShack welcomes all opinions, even those which may seem ridiculous to others (see our guidelines about that) as long as they are proffered in a polite and respectful manner and, of course, are relevant to the topic at hand.

 

Hence, it's fine to disagree about aspects of relationships or aspects of psychology; it's not fine to take personal shots at other members. It's also part of our guidelines that discussions shall remain topical and collaborative, with the focus being upon the thread starter and their particular issue, with member to member disagreements remaining focused on the thread starter and relevant to their issues. Hence, we may consider a thread-jack into statistics regarding BPD to be off-topic, as arguments over statistics do not benefit the thread starter personally. Alternatively, members can point the thread starter to resources on BPD and they can do their own research on such matters.

 

Thanks in advance for your cooperation!

[Itspointless]

Hi Pascoe, I am really sorry this is happening to you. I see al lot of useful comments have been made to this day regarding your ex. I just read your post and scanned the others. Like Lil Hoodlum said, the relation sounded toxic and I am sorry to say so.

 

I was wondering has there ever been a moment that you really wanted to marry her? I did not get that feeling while reading. In fact I got the feeling both of you were in some kind of difficult dance where to much intimacy would always lead to avoidance with one of you both, again and again and again. I can't put my finger on it as I do not know if it was her that made you keep asking for space or that it also was you? I can be wrong, but the guilt that you described or the things you mentioned about the children seemed to be masking something else, perhaps some kind of fear deep within you? I am interested if you recognize this?

[Pascoe]

Hi Pascoe, I am really sorry this is happening to you. I see al lot of useful comments have been made to this day regarding your ex. I just read your post and scanned the others. Like Lil Hoodlum said, the relation sounded toxic and I am sorry to say so.

 

I was wondering has there ever been a moment that you really wanted to marry her? I did not get that feeling while reading. In fact I got the feeling both of you were in some kind of difficult dance where to much intimacy would always lead to avoidance with one of you both, again and again and again. I can't put my finger on it as I do not know if it was her that made you keep asking for space or that it also was you? I can be wrong, but the guilt that you described or the things you mentioned about the children seemed to be masking something else, perhaps some kind of fear deep within you? I am interested if you recognize this?

 

Thank you for your response. I am going to first reply to it before going on to respond to Downtown's post.

 

Yes, there was a time when I truly wanted to marry her. As a matter of fact, it was quite recent.

 

Back in April we went on a beach vacation with my kids and two of their friends as well as her daughter and one of her friends. A beach vacation with six teenagers, can you imagine??? I thought going into it that it would be a rather stressful time but went into it with enthusiasm. To be honest, I had the absolute BEST time I ever had!!! There was minor bickering with the kids but nothing major we all just had a great time!!! She and I had a really good time just hanging out and doing activities with the kids as well as our "alone" time when the kids went to bed and "morning" time everyday. There was no talk of getting married, no talk about wedding plans, etc... we just had fun and enjoyed being together. I remember thinking to myself "this is what it is all about".

 

About 2-3 weeks after we came back from the beach one of the folks I work with came into my office and ask how the trip went. I told them it was the greatest time we ever had together. They then ask me "do you think you are ready to take the next step and get married?" To which I responded "yes, I believe I am".

 

Our relationship kept going really good for the next month or so. Then one night we were out just having fun together at a bar. She does not drink and I was a little "lit". She ask in a half joking way "so, are you ready to get married now?" I turned to her, looked into her eyes and said "yes, yes I am". Immediately, and I mean instantaneously, she said "we have to start making plans, where do you want to get married? Can we go to the justice of the peace tomorrow?, etc, etc, etc..." I didn't even have the opportunity to answer one question before the next one was coming at me... I told her "hold on, hold on I did not mean I am ready to stand up in this bar and get married right this instant". She "blew a gasket". She said "you know me and when I say right now I mean right now". I was saying to myself "how can any logical person think we can get married in a bar at 9pm on a Tuesday night".

 

That whole ordeal lasted a couple of weeks as she then went back to the way she was prior to going on the beach trip. She put it out there as "just another let down and broken promise".

[Pascoe]

Pascoe, I agree with you that the behaviors you describe -- neediness, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle, argumentative, blaming all unhappiness on you, always being "The Victim," and super sensitivity to harmless comments -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I also agree with LostDreams that these behaviors indicate emotional instability, which is the key defining feature of BPD.

 

Importantly, I not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may have strong traits of it. BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone exhibits all of these traits to some degree -- with some folks being higher on that spectrum than others. At issue, then, is not whether she exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits such traits so strongly that they are undermining her long-term relationships and pushing loved ones away. Not having met her, I cannot answer that question for you. I nonetheless can point you to a list of the red flags -- 18 BPD Warning Signs -- so you can decide, for yourself, whether you're seeing most of those signs. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If you would like to discuss this further, it would be very helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 warning signs strongly apply to her and which clearly do not.

 

Downtown... Thank you so much for the response. I am going to "copy and paste" so of the traits of BPD and do my best to describe them so as to give you and the others on the board some back ground starting with the most prevalent:

 

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;" She would constantly tell me "you always make everything else in your life a priority over me." She would never consider attacking my children as she knew that was the "line in the sand". For example, we would talk on the phone every morning when I would be on the way to the office. If there was an "issue" she wanted to discuss and I told her "I do not have the time to discuss the issue right now" she was fly into a rage. She would say things like "it is always your way. I need it to be my way and you need to discuss this with me right now". I would then sometimes say "Ok, if you want to discuss it right now I need you to tell me specifically what the issue is so I can address it because I do not have a great deal of time presently". She could never give me a "concise" description of the "issue". It would be like 10 issues fragmented and I could never make any sense out of them...

 

As I mentioned before I am involved in auto racing. She would constantly tell me "your race car is more important than me". I would tell her that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. There were times I would tell her "I will sell every last piece of racing equipment I own if it will make you happy". She would say things to me, although it has been a couple of years, such as "I like it that you are so passionate about racing and I support you in what you do". But it takes much effort to be involved in racing as well as serious financial obligations. I had been involved in drag racing for several years. The type of drag racing I did was very labor intensive as well as a HUGE financial obligation. When my father passed away in 2012 I talked to her about quitting drag racing and taking up road racing. The reasons being is that road racing does not take as much time and is not close to the financial burden. I told her it would mean less time and money spent on the car so that I could spend more time with her and we would be in an even better financial position.

 

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard It always seemed no matter what I did it was never enough. There were times, prior to her "new" job, she would travel for work and I would stay at her place with her kids, make sure they were taken care of, etc... A few months ago, prior to her moving in with me this past time, she called me sobbing that she was being sent away for 10 days for her job. Her job as a home owner's insurance claims representative requires that you be available at a moment's notice to go on "catastrophe duty". She was upset because her daughter had a horse show she would miss as well as the logistical difficulties of getting her daughter to school, etc... I got her calmed down and told her not to worry that I would make sure everything was handled. I don't recall all of the details but I did have to pick her daughter up on a couple of different occasions from school and get her home. She was living with her mother at the time... Then there were several times I loaned her money when she needed it... I also loaned money to her mother once when she needed it... I believe I mentioned this in an earlier post. There was never a "thank you" or any sign of gratitude. She would constantly just tell me "you don't support me or the decisions I make".

 

In addition, and this was previously mentioned, she was constantly changing residences never staying at the same location for more than a couple of years. Her first townhouse was a nice place but not "upscale". After living there for less than two years she moved into a house in a very nice neighborhood. The same neighborhood my ex-wife lives in... At this time an extremely wealthy girlfriend of hers was given a house in this neighborhood by her parents. She purchased a house just a few doors down. After living in that house for a year she moved to a different townhouse that was definitely "upscale". When I questioned her on the monthly mortgage payment I was told "shut the f--k up, I know what I am doing" and accused of not being supportive. After the first year in the "upscale" townhouse she found out her mortgage payment was going from $1,200 per month to approximately $3,800 per month. She was angry and devastated because she could not afford to pay that amount per month. I ask her "didn't you read the contract before signing?" I was accused of calling her "stupid". She found a rental property and left the townhouse then claimed bankruptcy. My Dad and I helped her move from the townhouse to the rental property. A year later she found a nicer rental property just a few blocks away. I helped her move into that property. After a year there she moved in with me for approximately 8 months. Her children were running the house and I told her "we need to establish some rules". She thought my rules were "ridiculous". My "rules" were fairly simple and no different than the rules I had for my children when they came to the house... Things such as "clean up after yourself, don't leave dirty dishes in the sink, take out the trash, etc..." I ask her to organize a meeting with the kids. Instead she moved back in with her mother... I could keep going but feel I am drifting off on a tangent...

 

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells this is one that was probably not as prevalent the past couple of years. But there were times we would have a knock down drawn out argument and within a few minutes it would be as if nothing ever happened. I would always ask myself "does she realize some of the things we just said to one another?" I would still be "hurting" from the argument and she would be just as kind and loving as a person could be... I never addressed it as I was just happy not to be under attack.

 

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later this is probably the most prevalent. If she was not arguing with me about "why will you not talk to me about getting married?" then it would be some other issue. She would say things to me such as "I have not brought up getting married for two weeks so why are you not talking to me about this issue?" I would tell her "because I am not clear on what the issue is. If you want to discuss an issue that is fine lets discuss one issue and get it resolved" to which she would respond "all of the issues are wrapped together" and she would never give me a straight clear answer.

 

I did start to notice that when something was going on in the lives of one of her sons she would take it out on me. Her oldest son has been in and out of jail and fights a drug addiction. Her youngest son has also been know to use drugs as well. I could always tell when one of them had done something to upset her because accusations would start flying my way.

 

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours; This is a big one... When she would get angry she would throw a tantrum that would result in me being called names or be given the "cold shoulder" until I said I was sorry. I would say I was sorry and say what I believed I did wrong to contribute to the problem just to try to make peace. Sometimes she would say "you want to say you are sorry and just 'sweep it under the rug'". To which I would respond "no but I don't know what else to say other than I am sorry and will try not to do [whatever] again". I felt as if I was being "punished". This behavior was constant from about six to seven months into the relationship until the very end.

 

to be continued...

[Pascoe]

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans; It seems as if every time we came to an agreement about when to get married she would sabotage the plans. For example, we would agree we will get married in June. She would then start an argument saying something along the lines of "you will find some way to get out of it".

 

I recall her saying to me once regarding us breaking up that it would make her angry when I did not call her after the break up and just "make things worse". It was almost as if she would break up with me so that I would come chasing after her. Which I did every time... Instead of her saying "We both made some mistakes and said some things we didn't mean and I am sorry" it would be as if, again, I was being punished.

 

I can only recall a couple of times off hand that she attempted to "make up" with me. Once several years ago she comes to me and tells me she is pregnant. I told her I am not ready to have another child and I did not believe "we" are ready to have another child. She flew into a rage because I was not "happy and enthusiastic" about the prospects of bringing a child into the world. She went on a camping trip with a few friends that weekend and called me leaving a voice mail that she was "bleeding" and was worried. Of course, upon receiving the message I called her and was very concerned regarding her health. She called me the following day and informed me she "miscarried" that morning while going to the bathroom. We didn't talk for about a week and she shows up at my house the following Saturday asking that I forgive her and we stay together... which we did.

 

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune; I can not recall the last time she took responsibility for her own actions. I know I said prior that I could only recall a couple of times she said she was sorry but that is not 100% accurate. There were other times but not with any frequency that she would say she was sorry for something but would follow up with apology with "I did this because you did that". This is why I said I can only recall she apologized a couple of times... It was only a couple of times that I was not actually being blamed.

 

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending) When she would see something she wanted she would buy it... No matter the cost. She was living with her mother, her older son was in jail, her other son who was 14 at the time was living with friend and her daughter has two horses, attends the most expensive private school in the area and does horse shows almost every weekend.

 

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well; when she and I began seeing one another she constantly told me stories of how abusive her husband was to her. She would say things such as "thank goodness we found one another. You are my soulmate". I recall thinking "how in the hell could anyone ever be mean to or hurt this girl. She is the sweetest, kindest most loving human being I have ever been around". Her ex-husband is really the only other relationship she has had so I don't have any other information to offer... Her ex-husband married three years later and, to be best of my knowledge, is still married to the same woman and they have three children together.

 

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;" This is "huge" one... For the first six months or so of our relationship I could not believe that I had found someone that I was so perfectly "in tune" with... She loved every single thing I did. She would sit in my office for a couple of hours at time. When I would tell her "I need to get some work done" she would say "Ok, I just want to sit here and watch you work". I would think to myself "I have a desk job. There really is nothing to 'watch'"... But it was still extremely flattering and blew my ego up the size of the sun... She was totally into that I raced cars and would constantly ask questions and want to be involved. When I went to play golf she would want to go just to ride with me in the cart...

 

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months; I would try to do this but would it would result in an argument. I am very good about budgeting my finances and once told her we are going to sit down and establish a monthly budget for her. The reason being is that we needed to get her financial situation under control so that we could move forward together. After a couple of hours of going through her income to debt ratio I had established a way to get her out of debt and actually put some money away every month. It would have taken about 15 months under this "financial plan" and required her to cut back on spending regarding non-essential items. She became very angry. To this day I have no idea why... I can only surmise that she wanted me to step in and wipe out her debt in was full swoop and resented that I was still able to do what I wanted to do with the racing. Maybe she felt I should have given up racing for a year and paid off her debt??? I don't know as she never explained to me why she became angry. That situation resulted in me not being talked to for a day or so...

 

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing; I am not sure about this one... Maybe, like I said earlier, I developed a sense of when things were not going well with her sons as she would lash out at me. Maybe she wanted me to sooth her and tell her things were going to be Ok and because I did not instinctively do that she lashed out.

 

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away); I believe she does have one or two close friends but they are not "long term" friends. They are friends she has had for less than five years and not friends she would "hang out" with shopping or having a "girl's night". For example, the woman that does her hair is probably her closest friend. They have conversations on the phone and talk when she is having her hair done. We have been to a couple of parties at the hair dresser's home... Her friends that she is with most often are the parents of the other girls that ride horses with her daughter. They talk at the "barn" during shows and sometimes go out to dinner after the shows.

 

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and This is another HUGE one... She can talk to anyone about anything and appear to be the happiest person while doing so. This is one of the things that I found most attractive to her as it made me feel like she was very comfortable with herself. Every year she and I would attend my employer's Christmas Party. There would be some very "high profile" lawyers at this party with whom I am friends. She only has a high school diploma and no advanced education - please don't take that statement the wrong way - I am fully aware and believe an educational background in not a true indication of one's intelligence. We recently fired a lawyer from our firm who had seven - yes seven - undergraduate degrees and a law degree from two of the most prestigious schools in the US. Anyway, while she would not just go up to and talk to these people she could definitely hold a conversation and would be most comfortable doing so... I am not implying in any way whatsoever she was not intelligent. Quite the contrary, she was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met and always willing to try new things. Another one of her qualities that I was intensely attracted to... She would help me work on the race car from time to time and would be asking questions the entire time - intelligent questions that lead me to believe she was honestly interested.

 

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence. Again, going back to the whole marriage thing... When she would say things such as "you will find someway to get out of it". I would sometimes say "how do you know? It is 6 months (or whatever) away" and then she would start to argue with me...

 

A little of her family background. She has three siblings. One "full" brother, a "half" brother and a "half" sister. Her father left when she was around seven years old and moved to across the country. She would fly out and visit him twice a year. She lost contact with her father for ~20 years and just a few years ago reestablished contact. Her mother took in two foster children when she was young for the extra income. Her mother treats her badly... For example, when she told her mother back in June that she was moving out of her house and moving back in with me her mother did not speak to her for about a month. Her mother blatantly favors her "half" sister who is ~13 years younger. She would tell me her mother and her sister will go out shopping, have dinner together, etc... and not invite her. She told me the reason she did not attend college is because her mother told her "she did not have the money" yet paid for her "half" sisters college in full... Whether, or not, that is the truth I don't know as she could have easily been the recipient of an academic scholarship.

 

Anyway... That is all I have for right now and just the things that are "off the top of my head".

[Downtown]

Pascoe, thanks for providing such a detailed account of the BPD warning signs you find most applicable to your exGF. Interestingly, what I find most intriguing is not the signs you find most relevant but, rather, those you leave out. Specifically, you omit warning signs 1, 3, and 7. I will comment on each of them in turn.

 

Warning Sign 1 -- black-white thinking. Pascoe, given what you've said in this thread, you likely are seeing B-W thinking and just don't realize this is what it is called. The all-or-nothing expressions you describe for Sign 2, for example, are perfect examples of B-W thinking. If your exGF has strong BPD traits, she almost certainly is exhibiting this type of thinking often because she never learned how to integrate the good and bad aspects of her own personality.

 

The result is that a BPDer is extremely uncomfortable with experiencing strong mixed feelings about people or things. Similarly, they are uncomfortable with all grey areas such as ambiguities and uncertainties. This is why a BPDer (person with strong traits) will view you as "always" or "never" doing something. This also is why a BPDer tends to categorize everyone as "all good" (with me) or "all bad" (against me) -- and can flip from one polar extreme view to the other in just ten seconds.

 

And this is one reason BPDers have great difficulty in ever compromising or working toward a mutually satisfying solution. Instead, they usually want it done their way -- with no modifications -- or throw their hands up and say, "Okay, have it your way." In this way, they tend to view all solutions and resolutions as a zero-sum game, either they win or you win and they lose. Like I said, BPDers have difficulty dealing with the grey areas between the polar extremes when it comes to close, interpersonal relationships. The negotiating and social skills a BPDer exhibits all day long with strangers and business associates at work disappear when she comes home to you because, as a loved one, you pose a threat to both of her fears.

 

Another indication of B-W thinking is your description of how she could turn on a time, flipping between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you). As you said (post 31), "Plans would get made and I would never tell my children about the plans until just about the last minute. I didn't want to tell them we were all going to do something together because I never knew if they were going to "fall through" due to her getting angry."

 

Likewise, I quickly learned not to plan or book expensive vacations with my exW. I never knew when she might blow up the day before leaving or, even worse, during the middle of a very expensive vacation. If I was going to have to see a temper tantrum, I would rather do it at home for free rather than while spending $500/day on vacation. Because BPDers cannot sustain intimacy for very long without feeling engulfed and "controlled," they tend to start the very WORST fights during or immediately after the very BEST of times.

Warning Sign 3 -- Irrational Jealousy. This Sign usually goes hand-in-hand with Sign 9, Fear of Abandonment. That is, any woman having a strong fear of abandonment almost certainly is going to exhibit irrational jealousy due to her fear of losing you. My BPDer exW, for example, would get offended if I looked at an attractive woman for a second instead of a half second. And, as I grew closer to her five children, she even became jealous of the time and devotion I focused on my five step children. On top of that, she grew to hate my adult foster son because I am so fond of him.

 

I note that you include Sign 9 but say nothing specifically about her fear of abandonment. While it may theoretically be possible for a BPDer to not have a great fear of abandonment, I've never met one or communicated with one who did not. I suspect your exGF's insistence on getting married so quickly largely was a result of an abandonment fear. If she is a BPDer, she might believe you truly love her at THIS VERY MOMENT but live in fear that, as soon as you discover how empty she is inside, you will walk away. A marriage license and child therefore may have been perceived as a way of holding onto you.

 

Finally, I note that many partners fail to see the abandonment fear because the BPDer is frequently creating arguments to push them away. Importantly, this pushing away does not imply an abandonment fear is absent. Rather, with BPDers, it implies there is SECOND fear, in addition to the abandonment fear. That other fear is engulfment. If she is a BPDer, the existence of these two fears creates a lose-lose situation for you because they lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum.

 

This means that, as you draw near to her to assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear (which I describe in Rebel's Thread). She will feel so "controlled" by you and suffocated that she will create a fight to push you away. Yet, as you back off to give her breathing room, you necessarily are drawing closer to triggering her abandonment fear. The result, of course, is that she will eventually signal that she wants you back.

 

This is why BPD relationships typically exhibit a cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. And this is why it is common for BPD relationships to breakup and reconcile numerous times before eventually ending for good. As you said in your very first post above, your 14 year relationship "...was constantly 'off and on' but we never really parted ways for more than a couple of weeks." You also said "The arguments would be very bad with constant threats of breaking up coming from both sides."

Warning Sign 7 -- Low Self Esteem. Again, if the behaviors you describe in this thread are accurate, you seem to be describing a woman having low self esteem. This would explain why she never apologizes or accepts responsibility for her own mistakes. Doing so is very painful for a person who has low self esteem because the feeling of shame is so hurtful. Her having low self esteem also seems evident in her childish, immature behavior. As you said earlier (post 18), she "would talk to her children as if they were her friends."

 

With BPDers, the low self esteem sometimes is difficult to see because they are such good actors. Because they have very little sense of who they really are (i.e., a weak self image), they tend to emulate the behavior of other people in the room as a way of fitting in and being accepted. BPDers therefore can be very good at projecting an appearance of self confidence, even when it doesn't exist.

[Pascoe]

Downtown... Thank you for the informative reply.

 

Some of the things I simply overlooked regarding jealousy... She would constantly compare herself to my ex-wife. She would say things such as "you were engaged to her after 1 year and married her after 2 years. Why can't you do that for me?" I would try to explain to her that it was comparing "apples to oranges. When I married my ex-wife we were in out late 20's and there were no children involved." There was no guilt over ending a previous relationship or in the situation in which my marriage ended.

 

Often times people at the office would go out for "happy hour" after work. In June 2013 one of the people that worked in one of our other offices was working in our office for the week. She had just announced she was leaving the firm to pursue other interests. I was invited to go out with everyone and stopped by for a few minutes. Someone took a picture of me standing beside said "soon to be ex-employee" and posted it on Facebook. My ex-GF became jealous and insisted that I deactivate my Facebook page. It was really no big deal to me as I am not a big "Facebooker" anyway... However, she continued her Facebook page and I never said anything about it or raised any issue.

 

You raise a very interesting point regarding the arguments we experienced regarding "wanting it her way". I always felt she was out to win every argument at all cost. I used to try to explain that there is no "winner". I would say to her if there is a "winner" in an argument we "both lose" and that sometimes we should just "agree to disagree". This was not a thought process that I ever felt made her feel comfortable. There was not a single time that I can recall her ever saying "Ok, have it your way". She would always "fight to the death" before seemingly "giving in" if she, at least as I saw it, felt I was not going to give in regarding the issue.

 

You also raise a very intuitive point regarding the "marriage issue". There was always "something" in the back of my mind saying "something was not quite right"... I felt that she was rushing and pushing marriage as if she was afraid I was going to "find out" something, some issue that I could never really "put a finger on". I don't know how to really articulate it but it felt very uncomfortable. There was never any doubt within myself regarding my love for her or my loyalty to her. Maybe it was just the fact that I did not like it being "pushed" on me constantly for years and years...

 

To this very instant I question myself and if there was anything, anything at all, I could have done to make her happy and to just love me and us being together. That is all I ever wanted was just for her to be happy with us and what we had together. If she had have been happy with just us I would have given her anything in the world she wanted. I was afraid of abandonment. I was afraid if she could not be happy with just us she was going to eventually leave the relationship. Knowing her spending habits, her apparent need to constantly change residences and her mother's history I was afraid to give her access to my financial stability. On a couple of occasions I brought up a "pre nup" and she argued with me that I did not trust her and I thought she was "only after my money". Not that I am a wealth man by any means... My biggest concern was that we would get married, she would move in with me and then a year later decide she did not "like this house". She would want to move and when I "put my foot down" and said "no" we are not going to move she would bail on the marriage. The only difference between now and being married to her was that not only would she leave with my heart but also with half of my assets.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Pascoe

[Cupid's Puppet]

She waited 14 years for you...are you kidding me??? You strung this woman along for 14 years and come on this forum accusing her of BPD. You know why she took a job where over 80 percent of her time would be away from you? Because she did not want to put her future on hold any longer for a man who obviously did not want to commit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good god...14 years. She wanted a husband and you wanted a playmate. 14 years it took y'all to find out you weren't on the same page. From my own failed relationship, I now realize it doesn't take a man that long to decide if he wants to make you his wife. You both are pretty arrogant. Your friends told you she'll come a running back when things don't work out. Why? So she can see that 6 month engagement turn into 14 more years?

[Pascoe]

She waited 14 years for you...are you kidding me??? You strung this woman along for 14 years and come on this forum accusing her of BPD. You know why she took a job where over 80 percent of her time would be away from you? Because she did not want to put her future on hold any longer for a man who obviously did not want to commit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good god...14 years. She wanted a husband and you wanted a playmate. 14 years it took y'all to find out you weren't on the same page. From my own failed relationship, I now realize it doesn't take a man that long to decide if he wants to make you his wife. You both are pretty arrogant. Your friends told you she'll come a running back when things don't work out. Why? So she can see that 6 month engagement turn into 14 more years?

 

It is not that I did not want to commit. I had no desire to be with anyone else but her. I did commit as I ask her to marry me in 2009 and gave her an engagement ring. It seemed that no matter what I was always having to "jump through hoops" in an effort to try to make her happy. It seemed as if it was more, more, more... Leading up to the engagement I ask her several times "are you sure us being married is what will make you happy?" and "will having that commitment finally make you feel secure with me?" To which I always got a resounding "yes". That "happiness" only lasted a few days. After being engaged it was back to the "what have you done for me lately".

 

I am not "accusing" her of having BPD. I am having a difficult time with this breakup and looking back on it after being out of it for a couple of months can see things with more clarity regarding the relationship. This is the third long term relationship I have had in my life and the other two were nothing at all like this one. The questions I really have is whether, or not, there was anything I could have done to actually make this woman happy?

[salparadise]

You strung this woman along for 14 years and come on this forum accusing her of BPD. You know why she took a job where over 80 percent of her time would be away from you? Because she did not want to put her future on hold any longer for a man who obviously did not want to commit.

 

I don't believe the OP has accused her of BPD. I don't think the word accused even fits the context. One might accuse someone of lying or stealing, but you don't accuse someone of an illness or a condition of being, e.g., having the flu, having blue eyes, etc.

 

OP is examining the consistencies/inconsistencies in a rather objective manner, as best he can given that he was in the relationship and has no clinical expertise. I don't believe the relatively lengthy duration of the relationship without marriage (strung along, as you so eloquently stated) obviates distinctly separate possibilities, nor is it justification for a pattern of unhealthy behaviors... however, the inverse may very well be true.

 

If you have questions about how the OP conducted his side of the relationship, why not just ask him in an open, direct, respectful manner? He is working through a process here; grieving a loss. I believe an empathetic approach would be more productive than deriding him for non-compliance with something that is apparently inconsistent with your personal views on right/wrong.

[BlueIris]

She waited 14 years for you...are you kidding me??? You strung this woman along for 14 years and come on this forum accusing her of BPD. You know why she took a job where over 80 percent of her time would be away from you? Because she did not want to put her future on hold any longer for a man who obviously did not want to commit.

 

Good god...14 years. She wanted a husband and you wanted a playmate. 14 years it took y'all to find out you weren't on the same page. From my own failed relationship, I now realize it doesn't take a man that long to decide if he wants to make you his wife. You both are pretty arrogant. Your friends told you she'll come a running back when things don't work out. Why? So she can see that 6 month engagement turn into 14 more years?

 

Cupid’s, that’s a good point. It IS a very long time. That might be one of the “many possibilities for why the relationships didn’t work,” other than BPD, that I alluded to above. OP, since you asked for advice and suggestions in your opening post, and you’re pondering whether BPD applies, another possible reason for her insecurity and anger might be that she left her marriage for her AP (affair partner), and APs sometimes don’t trust each other, due to the old saw, “if he’ll cheat with you, he’ll cheat on you.” That might be a reason why she was “constantly” bringing up marriage, too. Another factor to consider is that she might have moved a lot during this relationship because she was hoping or expecting to marry or be living together.

 

You might get some different perspectives and insights in the Infidelity and The Other Man/Woman sections of the forum.

 

The thing about objectivity is that we just can’t be when we’re in the thick of it. Even professionals shouldn’t diagnose family members and people close to them, especially on mental health issues, because of lack of neutrality and objectivity. So do consider that, and in view of that, I suggest you not tell her or other people that you think, suspect, or wonder if she has BPD. There’s a much bigger stigma to having a personality disorder than there is to having blue eyes or the flu, and intimating that she has a serious mental illness to other people could be damaging to her, her kids, and maybe even her career. As Downtown emphasizes, only a professional could diagnose it anyway.

 

Another point to consider regarding objectivity, and that might be helpful in your own counseling, is why some people sometimes call a partner crazy, whether off-handedly or through a methodical process:

Men really need to stop calling women crazy - The Washington Post

 

In the end, though, I really hope that you stay No Contact and not restart this relationship, and stick to your decision to consider her a ghost. Regardless of whether BPD or any mental illness is part of this, your opening post says you both fought and that there were “constant threats of breaking up coming from both sides” and that’s not good, especially for 14 years. Move on.