Does it ever surprise you how predictable physical attraction is?

[Mangina]

I haven't seen a single one reject you, and am not likely to, so that's neither here nor there. This is all anecdotal and hypothetical, so I'm not sure why you think I should be convinced that you're getting rejected left and right when all I've got to go on are some words on a screen. You say you're struggling, and that's rough, but how can I possibly know that it's all down to you being a so-called 4, which is meaningless to me anyway?

 

I have seen a lot of posts on LS, such as on this thread and elsewhere, that strongly suggest to me that it's not just looks that might be standing in the way of struggling guys such as yourself. I'm not saying that to ding you, Mangina, or to suggest that looks don't matter at all (of course they do) but just because seriously I have heard this stuff again and again on here and it seems like despite thousands of man-hours discussing these topics it's still easier for some folks to believe that it's all out of their control and the fault of some arbitrary number system than it is to do what they can with what they have. And along those lines, your chosen name here kind of tells me what I think I need to know about where you stand on this.

 

i understand all you have is my word to go by. i have seen what you are talking about being discussed and it does not change any thing when i turn my tablet off or log in to my dating profile. the numbers are not important it is like you said looks matter. girls do not use the numbering system so just take away the numbers and you have the same thing we talk about. it is as if i am invisible to girls and it is hard to use any thing to make up for my looks when they can not see me and will not give me 2 minutes of their time or consider me just a friend that they cry to when they are down.

[NJ123]

Not so rare at all. More women than men have been earning bachelors degrees for almost a decade. More women than men have grad degrees and more single women than single men buy houses these days. Many of these women are both beautiful and not in need of financial rescue. So, though it's a side issue, when women don't feel pressure to choose mates for financial reasons, they choose for other reasons. (Might be why the Taliban is against educating women! ) It's not rare, and it's more common every day.

 

Well, on the flip side though is if a really attractive woman already has financial stability, why would she want to go down 3 or 4 levels in terms of looks when she knows she's a catch if she has a great personality too? She'll more than likely have higher standards in someone, I just don't see someone like that settling way down.

[ThaWholigan]

People tend to conform to elements of conventional attraction all the time, but it's nowhere near as cut and dry or as simple as that.

 

I think if that's your reality then it's unfortunate - perhaps confirmation bias is more prevalent here than actual invisibility. There are loads of reasons why a guy would be invisible to women - his looks are just one factor.

 

But to answer your question, the things people find attractive surprise me all the time. Because in my experience, it's always different. Even the things girls like about me physically - always different. It's never as simple.

[elaine567]

Well, on the flip side though is if a really attractive woman already has financial stability, why would she want to go down 3 or 4 levels in terms of looks when she knows she's a catch if she has a great personality too? She'll more than likely have higher standards in someone, I just don't see someone like that settling way down.

 

Just because you view a person's worth by how big their boobs are and how cute their nose is, or how tall they are and how manly they look, it doesn't mean other people do the same.

There is a lot more to romance than just physical appearance.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Let's say a man is born. He's about a 4 out of 10.

 

He lives his life as a 4, going about his dailies. He goes to high school. Meets women. Goes to college, meets some more women. He gets a job, and starts making $. He starts hitting on women in bars, doing online dating.

 

Over the course of the first 20 years of his life after puberty, the man will literally meet millions of women, thousands of which are attractive women, say 7s and 8s.

 

Does it ever surprise you that out of all of those thousands of significantly more attractive women he meets, there isn't at least one that thinks he is hot? Just purely looks hot. Comes up to him at a bar, or online and says, "You're handsome. I want to tear your underwear off with my teeth."

 

But we all know that doesn't happen. It never happens. Is anybody ever surprised by how predictable physical attraction is?

 

Never surprises me, I never had any doubts about attraction being overall "predictable"...rather than subjective. It's never reflected anything different from anything I've ever seen.

 

I mean, there's a reason you don't see Jack Black as James Bond instead of Pierce Brosnan...I doubt it would be anything but laughable watching him attempt to be seductive, sexy and smooth with attractive women in cocktail dresses.

 

And I've never seen the best looking guys in a group walk into a social situation/interaction with lots of women and the ugliest guy comes out a winner with the rest of them scratching their heads trying to figure out what happened and why the girls were all over Mr. nice guy. It just doesn't happen, the same damn guys are successful the vast majority of the time...and if you're with better looking guys get away from them, and do your own thing solo because the women will choose the same guys time and time again unless you're talking very close in looks, or if you're both ugly in which case they'll choose neither one of you.

 

Sure, I've seen the hot guy with the ugly girl, and the ugly girl with the hot guy but there's more to it than just what you see on the surface...there's history there, and there's no telling what that persons personal issues are that might have influenced that "match" or how even that relationship started, but you can almost certainly bet it's an exception to the rule rather than the rule itself and there is some other benefit or reason to that relationship.

 

For example; plenty of women have self-esteem issues, and can be "beautiful" to most men, but when they look into the mirror, ridiculously they somehow see a 4 when they're a solid beauty...all the while most guys would consider her at the least an 8, and by many a 9 or a 10 on the attraction scale (which again, all guys seem pretty damn close in who the most attraction women are when out socially - not that these are the women they can realistically date). But especially to the average joe who has less options and tends to rate women very high who are not realistically all that high, but beggars can't be choosers either...it's understandable at least as a man, why they do that...every guy gets to a degree the struggle and the less options you have, the better those "other" people start to look.

 

So she feels like piss, hates her nose, her lips, the way one eye brow hangs lower than the other....things men pay NO attention to the majority of the time and care nothing about but for some reason many women do.

 

So maybe she dates the hot or more attractive douchebag that makes her feel like crap or unloved...OR she dates the "nice guy" who's always been her friend, someone reliable, faithful and supportive...not ever really experiencing another dynamic of love...for her that's her vision of experience of it, and she accepts that. So you see her walking down the street with average joe, with the belly, poor looks and you think to yourself "Wow, ugly guys really can get hot girls" without even knowing how it even all started, which likely had a lot to damn do with it...chances are it wasn't conventional and he beat out a bunch of better looking, studly and charming men..almost, if not ever, in fact she probably chose him and not for the best reasons I'm willing to bet...in which said girl might be intimidated by attractive men anyway because they make her feel insecure and she feels too "ugly" around them...she might even be happy to have the guy she does...sometimes safety is better than risk for some people.

 

So that's the whole thing on that scenario...you are not going to be tantalizing the ladies at a 4 look, it's just not realistic...you will not be a 10 in someone specials eyes..I'm sorry, I'm not saying someone can't love you but hot damn...even the better looking guys can have that problem as women can be 100 times more pickier than the men...not only do you have to be conventionally good-looking with women, you have to be the right "kind" of good-looking, which could mean a particularly type of facial structure, features, darker or lighter tones...women are way more detail-oriented IMO, guys looks at a girl and in three seconds he's like "Wooo baby doll...ain't that dere the best darn doozie you'd ever done seen..she's perfect!" and that's fking the end of that stage.

[xxoo]

Does it ever surprise you that out of all of those thousands of significantly more attractive women he meets, there isn't at least one that thinks he is hot? Just purely looks hot. Comes up to him at a bar, or online and says, "You're handsome. I want to tear your underwear off with my teeth."

 

No, that doesn't surprise me.

 

But if he gets to know a woman and build sexual chemistry, she may feel that way toward him. That happens all the time.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Good lord you guys really really need to get over your obsession with looks!! You are delusional if you really can say with a straight face that "hot" women never end up with average or ugly guys, do you have eyes??!?! And the thing about an average looking guy never having hot carnal sex like a "PLAYER" does? Pulllleeeez! If he's a carnal sexy average looking guy that's the kind of sex he'll be having but if he's busy feeling sorry for himself and focusing on how much better the more handsome guys have it, that seems to be pretty much a full time job!

And, OP, yes there are those who are considered almost universally sexy or gorgeous, always have been, always will be, some things are just beautiful to the human eye like roses, fluffy kittens and spectacular physical human specimens!

[NJ123]

Just because you view a person's worth by how big their boobs are and how cute their nose is, or how tall they are and how manly they look, it doesn't mean other people do the same.

There is a lot more to romance than just physical appearance.

 

Why are you assuming it's some common thing for a really attractive woman to be with a below average looking man. Maybe only in the movies does that happen a lot, but in real life that absolutely is not the case at all. It's just a rare occurrence & even if it happens a lot of the time it's because the guy is wealthy. Why do people always say when they see it "how did he get with her". It's because it's not all that common. Looks do matter whether you want to admit it or not. That's just human nature. People seen as attractive by most people, want to be with others that are seen as attractive by most people.

[xxoo]

Beauty is beauty, yes. And beauty can inspire sexual attraction in both men and women.

 

But beauty isn't necessary for sexual attraction. Other things can inspire it, greatly.

 

Self pity is not among them.

[NJ123]

Good lord you guys really really need to get over your obsession with looks!! You are delusional if you really can say with a straight face that "hot" women never end up with average or ugly guys, do you have eyes??!?! And the thing about an average looking guy never having hot carnal sex like a "PLAYER" does? Pulllleeeez! If he's a carnal sexy average looking guy that's the kind of sex he'll be having but if he's busy feeling sorry for himself and focusing on how much better the more handsome guys have it, that seems to be pretty much a full time job!

And, OP, yes there are those who are considered almost universally sexy or gorgeous, always have been, always will be, some things are just beautiful to the human eye like roses, fluffy kittens and spectacular physical human specimens!

 

You're talking specifically about sex. Which is true that an average/below average looking guy with great social skills can **** a lot of good looking women. But is it the norm for those guys to keep a really attractive woman long term?

[xxoo]

You're talking specifically about sex. Which is true that an average/below average looking guy with great social skills can **** a lot of good looking women. But is it the norm for those guys to keep a really attractive woman long term?

 

Yes, of course!

 

What is a "really attractive woman"? Is this strictly physical attractiveness? Or are women who are average in appearance, but loving and supportive wives, considered "really attractive"? (in my mind, they are really attractive women!)

[NJ123]

Yes, of course!

 

What is a "really attractive woman"? Is this strictly physical attractiveness? Or are women who are average in appearance, but loving and supportive wives, considered "really attractive"? (in my mind, they are really attractive women!)

 

Well yes, I was going by physical attractiveness. And yeah to some an average looking woman with a great personality can be seen as "attractive", but they still normally don't get the really good looking guys. And on the other side, the guys with average/below average looks with great personalities usually get friend zoned by the really physically attractive women. Those of the type of guys they like to talk their problems out to.

[elaine567]

Obviously this is the poor me, woe is me, reach for the Prozac thread.

I give up, I agree, a 4 is never going to have any chance of landing anything higher than a 2, that big nose, warts and the one tooth is going to be your destiny...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQN6xi08W3dVM1tS3lc0zMMFYRefrW6ESFoFf7KgD0Io3Js0tBq

[Rejected Rosebud]

Why are you assuming it's some common thing for a really attractive woman to be with a below average looking man. Maybe only in the movies does that happen a lot, but in real life that absolutely is not the case at all.

She is not assuming, It IS common, it's a thing! My girlfriends and I talk about it a LOT how this or that poor looking man is with a gorgeous young woman and how it's not fair, my brother has a beer belly and he won't date a woman with one ounce of extra fat on her, and he doesn't have to! Because he manages to get hot babes, don't even ask me how! NJ123, you are a nice guy! but you have a lot of preconceived notions and you seem to only be looking at the world around you in ways that support them, this one is way off. Maybe in a night club, but go to Starbucks, a restaurant, a company party or someplace like that where couples go and you will see for yourself.

[NJ123]

Obviously this is the poor me, woe is me, reach for the Prozac thread.

I give up, I agree, a 4 is never going to have any chance of landing anything higher than a 2, that big nose, warts and the one tooth is going to be your destiny...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQN6xi08W3dVM1tS3lc0zMMFYRefrW6ESFoFf7KgD0Io3Js0tBq

 

I'm just stating how it is out in the real world. Life isn't a fairy tale where the guy that's not seen as attractive always gets the good looking woman. It doesn't work that way.

[Weezy1973]

What surprises me is that these threads continue to pop up.

 

It is an absolute fact that people match up in terms of physical attractiveness. Sooo much research (I.e actual evidence) to back this up. There certainly are exceptions - but there are also people that are over 7 feet tall. There are always outliers.

 

This should be put to rest and accepted as fact. If you're ugly, chances are very good that you'll end up in a relationship with someone else that is ugly.

 

But here's the thing. When people are in love, they tend to find their partner to be above average in physical attractiveness regardless of how conventionally beautiful they are. Also a fact.

 

Moral of the story - stop worrying about it. Find someone you like, and date them.

[xxoo]

Well yes, I was going by physical attractiveness. And yeah to some an average looking woman with a great personality can be seen as "attractive", but they still normally don't get the really good looking guys.

 

It's too bad you have attractive in quotes. If they are attracted, and the attraction is strong, it is just as real as attraction between two physically beautiful people.

 

What I see on this thread is insecurity, and a desire to have a physically beautiful partner to feel better about oneself. The pretty people are viewed as trophies to be obtained in order to boost one's self image.

 

With a stronger self image, the need to obtain a beautiful partner is eliminated. The confident individual can connect with someone they really like, who really turns them on, regardless of whether that person is attractive to others.

[NJ123]

What surprises me is that these threads continue to pop up.

 

It is an absolute fact that people match up in terms of physical attractiveness. Sooo much research (I.e actual evidence) to back this up. There certainly are exceptions - but there are also people that are over 7 feet tall. There are always outliers.

 

This should be put to rest and accepted as fact. If you're ugly, chances are very good that you'll end up in a relationship with someone else that is ugly.

 

But here's the thing. When people are in love, they tend to find their partner to be above average in physical attractiveness regardless of how conventionally beautiful they are. Also a fact.

 

Moral of the story - stop worrying about it. Find someone you like, and date them.

 

Pretty much the truth. There's definitely exceptions but like you said if you're considered ugly by most people than it's highly likely the person you end up with would be seen as ugly by most people as well. Looks absolutely do matter. Looks are the first thing someone sees, and if they don't find you physically attractive than you'll be considered a friend at best to them in a majority of cases.

[Rejected Rosebud]

You're talking specifically about sex. Which is true that an average/below average looking guy with great social skills can **** a lot of good looking women. But is it the norm for those guys to keep a really attractive woman long term?

No I wasn't talking about sex and what you are saying is false, in fact it's the opposite, normal, ugly, fat, old, or all of the above type of men are with very lovely young women in couples or married ALL. THE. TIME. Women talk about it all the time, it's a normal thing! Except here on LS evidently!!

[NJ123]

It's too bad you have attractive in quotes. If they are attracted, and the attraction is strong, it is just as real as attraction between two physically beautiful people.

 

What I see on this thread is insecurity, and a desire to have a physically beautiful partner to feel better about oneself. The pretty people are viewed as trophies to be obtained in order to boost one's self image.

 

With a stronger self image, the need to obtain a beautiful partner is eliminated. The confident individual can connect with someone they really like, who really turns them on, regardless of whether that person is attractive to others.

 

Well I've been told I'm at least a 7 or an 8 in looks. I personally consider myself at least to be a 7 in the looks department. I'm just stating that more often than not a good looking woman won't get with an average/ugly looking guy. Others in this thread have stated something similar, even a few women. Like I said it's just human nature for attractive people to want others that are seen as attractive. But there definitely are exceptions.

[NJ123]

No I wasn't talking about sex and what you are saying is false, in fact it's the opposite, normal, ugly, fat, old, or all of the above type of men are with very lovely young women in couples or married ALL. THE. TIME. Women talk about it all the time, it's a normal thing! Except here on LS evidently!!

 

But I genuinely rarely ever see what you're stating here. If their fat & ugly with an attractive woman, than most peoples gut instincts would say it's because he has a lot of money.

[xxoo]

Well I've been told I'm at least a 7 or an 8 in looks. I personally consider myself at least to be a 7 in the looks department. I'm just stating that more often than not a good looking woman won't get with an average/ugly looking guy. Others in this thread have stated something similar, even a few women. Like I said it's just human nature for attractive people to want others that are seen as attractive. But there definitely are exceptions.

 

I think everyone is generally attracted to beautiful people, including other beautiful people. It makes sense that they are drawn to each other.

 

Which means that the beautiful people may overlook the average people. Receiving no positive reinforcement from the beautiful people, the average people appreciate the attention from each other and find great attraction within their own numbers.

 

And so on it goes. But attraction is attraction. Two people who lack beauty can have exceptional sexual chemistry. On that level, looks don't matter at all, so who cares?

[Phoe]

I don't think the subjectiveness is going to have a MASSIVE jump, but, for example, what one woman might consider a 3 or 4, I might jump up to a 6 or 7.

 

I typically am attracted to a "different" sort of look.

 

Benedict cumberbatch, for example, is my version of like.... a 9.5

 

Nearly perfect. Others look at him though, and wonder what the heck is so appealing?

[elaine567]

Benedict cumberbatch, for example, is my version of like.... a 9.5

 

Nearly perfect. Others look at him though, and wonder what the heck is so appealing?

 

Benedict Cumberbatch is pretty low on my scale. I do not see the appeal, if I am honest. I would in fact class him as ugly.

[NJ123]

I think everyone is generally attracted to beautiful people, including other beautiful people. It makes sense that they are drawn to each other.

 

Which means that the beautiful people may overlook the average people. Receiving no positive reinforcement from the beautiful people, the average people appreciate the attention from each other and find great attraction within their own numbers.

 

And so on it goes. But attraction is attraction. Two people who lack beauty can have exceptional sexual chemistry. On that level, looks don't matter at all, so who cares?

 

But wasn't that I was saying all along basically? That if you want a really attractive looking woman, you normally need to be an attractive looking man. If you're average all odds are you'll likely get with another average looking person. While the really attractive ones normally get with other really attractive people. And of course that absolutely doesn't mean all these physically attractive people have great personalities. A lot of them happen to be stuck up bitches with god awful attitudes, or douchebag guys with really ****ty attitudes.