Does it ever surprise you how predictable physical attraction is?

[xxoo]

But wasn't that I was saying all along basically? That if you want a really attractive looking woman, you normally need to be an attractive looking man. If you're average all odds are you'll likely get with another average looking person. While the really attractive ones normally get with other really attractive people. And of course that absolutely doesn't mean all these physically attractive people have great personalities. A lot of them happen to be stuck up bitches with god awful attitudes, or douchebag guys with really ****ty attitudes.

 

Sure. But with the distinction that usually people are very attracted to their own partner, regardless of how attractive they each are in general.

 

Therefore, they have a really attractive partner, to them. And that's why attraction is subjective.

[elaine567]

Sure. But with the distinction that usually people are very attracted to their own partner, regardless of how attractive they each are in general.

 

Therefore, they have a really attractive partner, to them. And that's why attraction is subjective.

Agreed, a person might not find Benedict Cumberbatch attractive but if a similar looking guy entered her circle and she liked him and there was a connection, then she will most likely date him.

Attraction does not necessarily follow a formula.

[Weezy1973]

I don't think the subjectiveness is going to have a MASSIVE jump, but, for example, what one woman might consider a 3 or 4, I might jump up to a 6 or 7.

 

I typically am attracted to a "different" sort of look.

 

Benedict cumberbatch, for example, is my version of like.... a 9.5

 

Nearly perfect. Others look at him though, and wonder what the heck is so appealing?

 

Yes - but so do A LOT of women. He is considered to be a sex symbol amongst many women (i.e. your taste is not that different at all).

 

If you had said you found John Goodman to be a 9.5 or Steve Buscemi or even Jonah Hill, then you could easily say that your taste is far different from most women. But Benedict Cumberbatch....not so much...

[NJ123]

Sure. But with the distinction that usually people are very attracted to their own partner, regardless of how attractive they each are in general.

 

Therefore, they have a really attractive partner, to them. And that's why attraction is subjective.

 

This is true. But as was said normally people get with people on their own looks level. So a guy that's considered a 4 would rarely ever get with a woman that's a 9. That's why I said it's rare. In all probability the 4 usually ends up with someone else that's considered in the 4-6 range. But if that guy who's a 4 only wants someone that's considered a 7+ well than their going to have a severely hard time finding someone. And I hear about it a lot where guys who are seen or consider themselves ugly only want women that are seen as attractive. And unfortunately that's why those guys are bitter because they don't want to settle for someone on their own looks level. For some people it's just hard to accept that they'll never get the really physically attractive woman. But unfortunately life isn't fair. You have to work with what you have.

[2.50 a gallon]

I totally disagree with the premise of this thread.

 

 

" . we all know it doesn't happen. It never happens"

 

 

Over my life time, I have been amazed at the number of times that I have asked myself, "What does she see in him?"

 

 

As for it never happens. Me in my twenties, 5' 6", lucky if I weighed 125 to 130. There was nothing I could do to gain weight and put on muscle. When it comes to looks, an below average round faced guy, like Charlie Brown. And I have a problem, in that when it comes to sex, she has to be in the 8 or 9 range, or I remain a Mr. Softie. By the time I reached 30 I had dated at least a 100 women, and that excludes three years, when I was in a relationship with my ex-fiancé. And amongst them was one who had her photo in Playboy, not as a fold out, and at age 20 I dated a gal, who after she moved to LA, was on the cover.

[MissBee]

Let's say a man is born. He's about a 4 out of 10.

 

He lives his life as a 4, going about his dailies. He goes to high school. Meets women. Goes to college, meets some more women. He gets a job, and starts making $. He starts hitting on women in bars, doing online dating.

 

Over the course of the first 20 years of his life after puberty, the man will literally meet millions of women, thousands of which are attractive women, say 7s and 8s.

 

Does it ever surprise you that out of all of those thousands of significantly more attractive women he meets, there isn't at least one that thinks he is hot? Just purely looks hot. Comes up to him at a bar, or online and says, "You're handsome. I want to tear your underwear off with my teeth."

 

But we all know that doesn't happen. It never happens. Is anybody ever surprised by how predictable physical attraction is?

 

This scenario starts off saying a man is a 4 which makes it seem as if this is an objective scale where we can look at someone and say "Oh look, there's a 4." It doesn't work like that. I don't judge people based on a numbers scale personally and even if I did, guaranteed if you were to give us all pictures of 100 men to rate between 1 and 10, while some people may rate consistently higher than others, we won't all assign the same number value to them because looks are subjective. I am consistently surprised that people still act like everyone likes the same kind of look.

 

Yes there are some people more conventionally attractive than others, but there is a lot of variation in preferences and all kinds of men I don't think are attractive have relationships and yes sometimes with women I think are more attractive than they are, so for me I don't really get the idea that only super handsome supposed 10 (whatever that means since again a 10 to one person may not be a 10 to another) men get women. Also the idea that people only like those who are the same arbitrary non-objective number as them (who is assigning this? Is it somewhere on my body like behind my knee, this number?) is ridiculous. There is NO rule of physics, nature or psychology that in terms of looks we only like people who are the same random number someone else assigned to us as our look. I don't get how those living in the real world can think this. I see couples of similar attractiveness (to me) and others that are not all the time...but MY view of them and how they view each other isn't the same. It is always that OTHER people looking from the outside are the ones who judge whether or not they think this person should be with the other person based on some number they think each fits. But in the end, they're with each other...so clearly these numbers didn't matter to them or your number assignment and theirs differs greatly.It's never the couple themselves sitting around arguing about their number values and if it matches, but either disgruntled people thinking it's not "fair" that this not hot girl/guy is with this hotter one, or that this hot person can "do better" or some other superficial external judgment based on looks but not living these people's relationships. I see women with men I'd not touch with a ten foot pole, but can concede that they obviously find them attractive and like them for some reason and I don't need to agree with it.

 

I dunno if any of my boyfriends were 10, I liked them all though and was attracted to them. Except for one boyfriend and maybe 2 other guys I was FWB with, the rest wouldn't be model material. But they were handsome in a normal way and I wasn't the first or last woman they'd date...so I don't get it really. The world I live in all kinds of men get women, some may have more charm or better looks (and charm counts A LOT as well as how a man carries himself. I think an unattractive women has less to work with than a man who may not be all that handsome but dresses well and is charming and smells good ) than others but most find someone even if they aren't a 10. As for women wanting to take your underwear of with their teeth and walking up to you at a bar and saying so...I'm sure few men, even the very attractive, have this happen. Some might but this is probably not all that common. Some guys have it hard but some guy who looks similar to them may also be having a totally different experience...so I wouldn't chalk it up to looks only.

Edited December 4, 2014 by MissBee

[Negative Nancy]

Let's say a man is born. He's about a 4 out of 10.

 

Over the course of the first 20 years of his life after puberty, the man will literally meet millions of women, thousands of which are attractive women, say 7s and 8s.

 

Does it ever surprise you that out of all of those thousands of significantly more attractive women he meets, there isn't at least one that thinks he is hot? Just purely looks hot. Comes up to him at a bar, or online and says, "You're handsome. I want to tear your underwear off with my teeth."

 

But we all know that doesn't happen. It never happens. Is anybody ever surprised by how predictable physical attraction is?

 

Um....would the male 4 ever do the same thing to a female 4? No, because as even you state in your own post, you're only interested in the hot ones, the 7s and 8s.

 

Why is your post about the 7s and 8s and not the physical equivalent of a male 4? We all know that doesn't happen. It never happens . Is anybody ever surprised by how predictable physical attraction for men is?

Edited December 4, 2014 by Negative Nancy

[PJKino]

Yeah my friend has pretty much been told he's attractive from most wine he's met.. me none lol

 

Women's taste in men is not diverse at all..they just can't all get these good looking men so they settle for a guy who's in their league

[littleblackheart]

It's not because you are physically good looking that people will be attracted to you. Women, like the normal human creatures that they are, are within their rights to admire aesthetically pleasing men but don't necessarily want to rip anything off them. It's only a problem for those who are only attracted to good looking people and, for one reason or another, feel short-changed.

 

 

If you want to people to be attracted to you, accepting your flaws with good grace and focusing on your strengths is not a bad attitude to have; wasting your time wondering why Scarlett Johansen won't look twice however seems a bit self-defeating...

[Rejected Rosebud]

Women's taste in men is not diverse at all..they just can't all get these good looking men so they settle for a guy who's in their league

That's false! I guess it makes you feel better somehow to believe it so carry on!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

This is what really happens ALL THE TIME with people who have other things that excite them than physical looks: There is "something" about a guy that gets you. Like my science partner Tony in high school, total nerd, ridiculous hair, giant glasses, I got the most gigantic crush on him, I can't even explain why, it had to do with his seriousness, intensity and total love of science, he was a nerdy brainiac. No offense guys but somebody who spends a lot of time on forums or inside their own heads moaning about how they can never get a "hot" girl because they are not a "9" themselves are probably not projecting that "something" to anybody, self pity is not cool!!

[BlueIris]

I suspect that this obsession with rank and physical appearance that some folks have is really about their own perception of their rank in society. Kind of the Arm Candy Theory and being concerned about rank in the male hierarchy: This woman turns me on because she’s desired by others and carries social value. So, it’s really about competing with their fellow men. That could explain why someone who perceives only one measure and ranks low by that measure could become obsessive about others’ rank and want someone of higher "value" by that yardstick.

[carhill]

Does it ever surprise you that out of all of those thousands of significantly more attractive women he meets, there isn't at least one that thinks he is hot? Just purely looks hot. Comes up to him at a bar, or online and says, "You're handsome. I want to tear your underwear off with my teeth."

 

TBH, I never gave it much thought when younger. However, after 15-20 years of attempts, I did perhaps become somewhat chagrined by being 'not hot enough', meaning not attractive enough to even want to get to know better. That first shunning wore after awhile, I would say after ten years or so. These days, virtually nothing surprises me, probably borne of acceptance of how the world works based on a lifetime of interaction with it.

[serial muse]

I suspect that this obsession with rank and physical appearance that some folks have is really about their own perception of their rank in society. Kind of the Arm Candy Theory and being concerned about rank in the male hierarchy: This woman turns me on because she’s desired by others and carries social value. So, it’s really about competing with their fellow men. That could explain why someone who perceives only one measure and ranks low by that measure could become obsessive about others’ rank and want someone of higher "value" by that yardstick.

 

I think so too. I notice that there's a lot of head-nodding going on amongst numbers theorists; to wit, when a guy says "oh, I'm a 4" or "she's a 7" others will nod and say, yes, a 7, yes indeed, as though it's an objective thing. But of course you scratch that a bit and find that one man's 7 is another man's 5 or another's 8.5, and you end up with what people have been saying all along: That this stuff is fluid and subjective.

 

The only thing that seems consistent is the idea that they all agree that a scale matters. Which supports your idea that it's more about value in others' eyes. I guess it shouldn't really surprise me, given how predictable that is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GoodOnPaper]

I suspect that this obsession with rank and physical appearance that some folks have is really about their own perception of their rank in society. Kind of the Arm Candy Theory and being concerned about rank in the male hierarchy: This woman turns me on because she’s desired by others and carries social value. So, it’s really about competing with their fellow men. That could explain why someone who perceives only one measure and ranks low by that measure could become obsessive about others’ rank and want someone of higher "value" by that yardstick.

 

Struggling guys put a LOT of pressure on themselves to be attracting/dating/in relationships with women -- in my opinion, not to show off, but to the convince the world and themselves that they are OK. Yes, it's bad to put so much stock in what others think of you, but I don't think it is as cynical as it's being portrayed in this thread.

 

It takes patience and experience to figure out what one really wants from an intimate relationship -- those are two qualities that struggling guys have in very short supply. So, especially when young, they (we) try to grasp at what's on the surface, thinking that will solve our issues.

 

Then we have the two most common pieces of advice (usually appearing in the same LS threads) that, in my opinion, are impossible to reconcile -- 1) take what you can get, and 2) ugly guys get hot women all the time. I think this actually adds more pressure to the struggling guy. Now, if by miracle he does land a date, it doesn't count for much unless she's "hot" because "ugly guys get hot women all the time" and going into a relationship on a take-what-you-can-get basis is hardly inspiring. There has to be some sort of middle ground or some way of transcending this all together, but I don't know if that's something someone can be told how to do.

[xxoo]

Now, if by miracle he does land a date, it doesn't count for much unless she's "hot" because "ugly guys get hot women all the time"

 

What is a date/relationship supposed to "count" for?

 

Does it not provide connection, attraction, companionship, support unless the partner is hot?

 

It sounds like women are worthless as partners unless hot

Edited December 4, 2014 by xxoo

[elaine567]

I think this emphasis on looks has all been manufactured by OLD, in that it is "supermarket" dating.

You look at the goods on offer and you want to take them home with you, only OLD has a sting in the tail because the goods will only come home with you if THEY want to come home with you and that is problematic.

With the huge choice of "hot" people, everyone, especially men feel entitled to choose the best ones and are depressed and disappointed when they do not find their particular choices are available to them.

Meeting people in real life is different in that "hot" people are rare, and "hot" people may not seems so hot when they open their mouths or act like d*ckheads.

IRL the whole package is there to be seen, and so hot people may not seem so attractive and more ordinary people are in the majority. Ordinary people IRL can exude desirable qualities that are not apparent on just looking at some OLD photo and profile.

[elaine567]

It sounds like women are worthless as partners unless hot

That is the impression I am getting here. Trophy women.

[carhill]

I think this emphasis on looks has all been manufactured by OLD, in that it is "supermarket" dating.

 

In general, I think this point has traction and my whole experience has been outlier, in that I did far better, meaning had more positive first contacts, went out on more dates, met more girlfriends, and ultimately became married because of OLD. Prior, during the period from ~1974 to 1994 or so, pursuing women in real life pretty much sucked as far as success went. Perhaps, for users of OLD today, the marketplace theory holds true. I only dabbled in it during my divorce and didn't have any issues meeting women to date whereas in real life zippo. That said, I didn't bowl them over with physical attraction so at least that part was fairly predictable. That's how it goes sometimes.

[GoodOnPaper]

What is a date/relationship supposed to "count" for?

 

Does it not provide connection, attraction, companionship, support unless the partner is hot?

 

It sounds like women are worthless as partners unless hot

 

I'm just interpreting the "ugly guys can get hot women" testimonials that pop up on LS -- is that not how you think they should be taken?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Obsession with looks and beauty has been there since the beginning of human race. It has nothing to do with OLD. I really can't believe that people are saying that looks are purely subjective.

 

If you present a person to a 100 random people and ask them to rate this person's looks on a scale from 1-10, I can gurantee you that there will be a high concentration of marks within a narrow score age. If beauty was truly subjective, the scores would be approximately equally distributed. This experiment was done many times with photos and it proves my point. Sure, beauty is "subjective" within a narrow score range. It is far from subjective overall.

[NJ123]

Obsession with looks and beauty has been there since the beginning of human race. It has nothing to do with OLD. I really can't believe that people are saying that looks are purely subjective.

 

If you present a person to a 100 random people and ask them to rate this person's looks on a scale from 1-10, I can gurantee you that there will be a high concentration of marks within a narrow score age. If beauty was truly subjective, the scores would be approximately equally distributed. This experiment was done many times with photos and it proves my point. Sure, beauty is "subjective" within a narrow score range. It is far from subjective overall.

 

Why are you so hard on yourself with your own looks for? You look completely fine to me judging from your avatar. You said only below average looking guys want to date you, but I don't understand why since you're not below average in looks at all. Or maybe the guys you view as below average are not really below average but only are to you?

[newmoon]

Why are you so hard on yourself with your own looks for? You look completely fine to me judging from your avatar. You said only below average looking guys want to date you, but I don't understand why since you're not below average in looks at all. Or maybe the guys you view as below average are not really below average but only are to you?

 

i think women in the 7-8 range suffer the most, because a 9/10 guy will very rarely approach that woman but everyone under a 5 will. the 6-8 men are striving for the small amount of girls that fit into the 9/10 category so although attractive women by most standards (7-8 range) would seemingly get asked out a lot, they remain single. imo. i think everyone should just consider themselves a 6. that's not high and not low, and wouldn't lead to the conclusion that you're any better or any worse looking than anyone else. because, even a 10 could be a 1 to someone else. it's completely in the eye of the beholder.

[NJ123]

i think women in the 7-8 range suffer the most, because a 9/10 guy will very rarely approach that woman but everyone under a 5 will. the 6-8 men are striving for the small amount of girls that fit into the 9/10 category so although attractive women by most standards (7-8 range) would seemingly get asked out a lot, they remain single. imo. i think everyone should just consider themselves a 6. that's not high and not low, and wouldn't lead to the conclusion that you're any better or any worse looking than anyone else. because, even a 10 could be a 1 to someone else. it's completely in the eye of the beholder.

 

Unfortunately that isn't possible. Since there's always going to be some men & women where the majority find them attractive. While there's going to be some men & women that the majority will find unattractive.

 

And I'm not too sure about women in 7-8 range having it really tough. I think any man that's a 6 or a 7 would love to be with another woman that's in the 7-8 range. The men & women that are seen as unattractive have it the hardest unfortunately. Since a lot of men who are seen as unattractive don't want to settle for someone on their own level of looks. In general, unattractive people get treated worse than good looking people. You'd never see a good looking woman smile at an ugly man, but they would without hesitation for a good looking guy. And some women even get creeped out if they get asked out by an unattractive man. And some even think their being harassed. While on the flip side of that, a woman getting asked out by a handsome guy, they'd be blushing & smiling & would give out their phone number.

[Weezy1973]

Unfortunately that isn't possible. Since there's always going to be some men & women where the majority find them attractive. While there's going to be some men & women that the majority will find unattractive.

 

And I'm not too sure about women in 7-8 range having it really tough. I think any man that's a 6 or a 7 would love to be with another woman that's in the 7-8 range. The men & women that are seen as unattractive have it the hardest unfortunately. Since a lot of men who are seen as unattractive don't want to settle for someone on their own level of looks. In general, unattractive people get treated worse than good looking people. You'd never see a good looking woman smile at an ugly man, but they would without hesitation for a good looking guy. And some women even get creeped out if they get asked out by an unattractive man. And some even think their being harassed. While on the flip side of that, a woman getting asked out by a handsome guy, they'd be blushing & smiling & would give out their phone number.

 

Actually probably not true. The only people that have it tough would be the people that are trying to date people more attractive than they themselves are.

 

People match up with people of like attractiveness levels. Ugly with ugly. Average with average. Good looking with good looking.

 

And remember, the vast majority of adults are actually in relationships - so most people aren't struggling at all!