Why do men call and make plans and then not show/call (repeatedly)?

[snilljente]

Just curious to those of you who care to give your opinion....if you are dating someone (i.e. talk to them everyday and see each other more than 1x/wk) and you call and leave them a message on their cell, what is a reasonable amount of time to wait for them to call back?

[Mary3]

Well to be reasonable....if you called them at 9 in the morning and you knew they were at work ,then you should expect a call by 9 pm that night because hopefully they probrobly have checked there daily messages.

 

If you have gone more than 2 days with no return calls or they just arent calling in general , then I would say they arent very interested. If they calling you once or twice a week and you are having sex its sounds like Booty Call. Meaning : they seek only casual sex with you but maybe they make you think its more serious..

[snilljente]

Just curious to those of you who care to give your opinion....if you are dating someone

 

***(i.e. talk to them everyday and see each other more than 1x/wk)***

 

and you call and leave them a message on their cell, what is a reasonable amount of time to wait for them to call back?

 

ANOTHER EXAMPLE: We said we would go shopping on Saturday...he calls at 11:00 on Sat.....I am in the middle of getting dressed and said I would call back in a few....I call back in 10 minutes.....3 HOURS later I still haven't heard back from him, so I call him and leave a message saying that I am going shopping with a girlfriend instead....grounds for frustration or am I too sensitive.....remember, this type of stuff has happened over and over...many times

[moimeme]

Again, if it's AD/HD, as soon as you hang up, you're forgotten. They live in the moment in the extreme. So, for instance, if you're getting dressed, talk to him anyway because he'll head out and forget you otherwise.

[snilljente]

Wow, Moimeme...I understand this concept, but I mean he manages to hold down a good job is financially successful....how can this ADHD only negatively affect one aspect of his life...isn't that somewhat of a copout for me to excuse this over and over when I see that the guy doesn't even like being 5 minutes late for work and makes it to the gym after work like clockwork everyday at 5:30? Should I just assume that it's me and that he just wanted the sex even though we didn' t have sex every time we were together?

[moimeme]

Wow, Moimeme...I understand this concept, but I mean he manages to hold down a good job is financially successful....how can this ADHD only negatively affect one aspect of his life.

 

Work provides structure and routine, which is ideal for folks with AD/HD. Not everyone thrives - some don't manage work well at all. Others, though, do very well with routine. It's unstructured time that is a problem.

 

..isn't that somewhat of a copout for me to excuse this over and over when I see that the guy doesn't even like being 5 minutes late for work and makes it to the gym after work like clockwork everyday at 5:30?

 

Exactly. Routine. Exact same things done at exact same times every day. The AD/HD guy in my life was that way. His morning routine was exactly the same every day. It was how he coped.

 

Should I just assume that it's me and that he just wanted the sex even though we didn' t have sex every time we were together?

 

No. You should gather more info and possibly talk to him. Assumptions do everyone an injustice.

[snilljente]

You sound like you know a ton about this...I appreciate your input....I am hesitant to bring this up because I don't want him to think that I am being critical of him, but rather that I see know that his reliability is not a malicious thing and that I took personally what wasn't meant that way and that we might be able to make things work by talking about what we can to together to address each of our issues (i.e. his ADHD and my fear of abandonment).....right now he says he wants to "play it by ear".....does this mean that I shouldn't contact him? Should I let him make the first move? I really appreciate your input again.......

[moimeme]

At this point, leave it to him. Paradoxically, while they don't understand why things they do ca hurt for a while, they can hold onto hurts they suffer so he may still be mad at you. Let him cool down first. And good luck.

[snilljente]

Thanks...I won't call him for a while...let him call me and I'll just be friendly when I see him at the gym...like nothing is wrong....Interesting, I was checking out some sites on the Net about Adult ADD and it talks alot about how after so many relationships not working, some adults with ADD almost create a self-fulfilling prophecy because they don't believe that they can be successful in relationships....Also, I was wondering with your boyfriend with ADD did it help (since you said they thrive on routine) to have set days/nights that you spent together...i.e. if we agreed to see each other on Friday nights, then he would know that every Friday night he spends with me, but he has the rest of his weekends free to do his own thing? Just a thought...

[moimeme]

It was one of those stupid mistakes - we pretty much didn't spend any time apart and he moved in with me fairly quickly. Some AD/HD guys rush full tilt into very involved relationships. And they're pretty good at sweeping people off their feet. This is not necessarily a good thing.

[snilljente]

He's not like this...quite the opposite....VERY cautious and slow to ask me out, etc......I think it's a result of not having a successful relationship in the past.....I know you said that he might be mad and to give him time to cool down..but I don't think he's mad...I called yesterday around 3:00 to say hi...he called me back at 4:30 but I didn't get the message until 6:00 when I called him back...I got his voice mail and didn't leave a message....(he usually doesn't listen to them anyways).....He made a comment once that he is so cautious because he sees that 9 out of 10 people who are in relationships end up breaking up...I wonder if I just called to say hi and see how he was doing, if that would make him feel better and open things up...or do I just let him still make the first move....?

[snilljente]

Ok, this is what I did....I just called (it's 10:15pm) got his voice mail and just left a message saying "Hi handsome, just thinking about you and wanted to call and say hi...hope you had a good weekend, I'm going to bed, goodnight". I will leave it at that.....I will see how/if he responds......what do you think?

[moimeme]

I figure it never hurts to send a message reinforcing that you're over whatever you might have been mad at him for. Now see what happens. Maybe it will provide a clue to what's going on in his head.

[snilljente]

Yes, you are right....I wanted him to know that I still care...so now he knows and it's up to him to make the next move.....thanks for all of your wisdom Moimeme...how have you become so relationship wise? You have great input.....thnanks and I will keep you posted.

[prisoner]

how much are you willing to discover an excuse for bad manners and insensitivity?

 

would you let ADHD be an excuse for other things? cheating? drug addiction? forgetting you exist?

 

while I can understand your instinct to have some empathy it is important to remember that a symptom of the disease is not having to explain your actions and apologise when appropriate.

 

what is the bopundary? where is the line in the sand? he has to concentrate at work and while driving. Does he have a hobby that he places high on the list?

 

who else has he left out in the cold? it is one thing to be sympathetic but it is another to let something taht alot of people deal with become an excuse for what would be inexcusable otherwise.

[KaiaMahina]

I'm sorry, but I agree with prisoner.

 

I've been stood up and blown off by more men than I can shake a stick at. I was also in a relationship for 18 months with a man whose therapist suspected had attention-deficit disorder. It was pure, unadulterated hell and I ended it and would never enter into a relationship with anyone functioning with this disorder. (And to be honest, I've seen too many people who are supposedly afflicted with these disorders who can pay attention well enough to hold down good jobs, make a decent salary, indulge in hobbies or obsessively focus on someone or something other than you.)

 

But as for the rest...there was nothing wrong with them that couldn't be fixed by a good beating administered by real men wielding tire irons. I had one man call me at 6:30 PM for directions to my house for a date at 8:00 PM. By 10:00, being the patient saint that I am, I finally called his cell phone, thinking that perhaps he had had an accident. Predictably, he didn't answer. Finally, after another hour of fruitless calling, I left a message saying that I hoped he hadn't been hurt or taken ill, but that if he had just decided not to show up, it was shameful of him and undeserved on my part.

 

Another guy enthusiastically made plans on our first date for a second date for lunch. Hell bent on seeing me again. The day of the date, nothing. Didn't call to cancel. Didn't call to reschedule. Didn't call at all. Fed up, on the date of the supposed date, I called him and once again -- lo and behold -- he didn't answer his phone. I left a message saying that I hope something hadn't happened to him, and that if he was still breathing and mobile, a phone call cancelling this elaborately planned date would have been nice so that I could have spent my Saturday doing something other than waiting for a phone call.

 

Yet another did the same thing except that I was supposed to meet him at a particular time and place. He even sent an unsolicited email confirming the date and asking me to reply whether I was still coming, which I did, in the positive. Showed up at the pre-arranged time and place. No show. I waited AN HOUR so that if he had been reasonably delayed, I wouldn't seem to have gone off in a huff. Went home, expecting there would be a call apologizing and explaining. Well, how naive was that?! This was when I gave up even bothering to express my dissatisfaction.

 

Luckily, these guys didn't turn up again to make/break more dates, so I'm not in the same boat as some of these women. But even if they had, I wouldn't have entertained any of their explanations or excuses. If a man or woman makes you miserable and crazy because of their insensitive boorish selfishness OR their unfortunate neurological problems, it all boils down to the same thing: you have to learn to be a doormat and tolerate their behavior (voluntary or involuntary) or cut your losses as soon as possible. If you're already spending huge amounts of time trying to diagnose, analyze and empathize with someone else's problematic behavior, you in for a helluva ride with them in a relationship (which you, and you alone, will bear the burden of because they've already proven they couldn't hold up their end of a toothpick).

[moimeme]

would you let ADHD be an excuse for other things? cheating? drug addiction? forgetting you exist?

 

Again, it's not an excuse, it's an EXPLANATION. You cannot solve problems unless you understand their causes. So you have to figure out what the problem is and then deal with that problem.

 

while I can understand your instinct to have some empathy it is important to remember that a symptom of the disease is not having to explain your actions and apologise when appropriate.

 

Huh?

 

what is the bopundary? where is the line in the sand? he has to concentrate at work and while driving. Does he have a hobby that he places high on the list?

 

They can focus on some things, not so well on others. It's the nature of the beast.

 

who else has he left out in the cold? it is one thing to be sympathetic but it is another to let something taht alot of people deal with become an excuse for what would be inexcusable otherwise.

 

Agreed, if he a) realizes he even does it and b) won't do anything to fix it

 

But as for the rest...there was nothing wrong with them that couldn't be fixed by a good beating administered by real men wielding tire irons.

 

You just can't make these judgements offhand.

 

it all boils down to the same thing: you have to learn to be a doormat and tolerate their behavior (voluntary or involuntary)

 

There's no 'being a doormat' about it. You can work with them to sort out the situation or you can toss in the towel without even trying.

 

If you're already spending huge amounts of time trying to diagnose, analyze and empathize with someone else's problematic behavior, you in for a helluva ride with them in a relationship (which you, and you alone, will bear the burden of because they've already proven they couldn't hold up their end of a toothpick).

 

Well, actually, not so much the case. A lot of these guys are real great, once they're treated. And it doesn't take long to work once they get on it. As I said before, there's a very simple solution to the broken dates - call and confirm. Easy, and saves all this sturm und drang.

[KaiaMahina]

moimeme,

 

I have 3 issues.

 

1. I have often made confirmations of these dates-that-never-were. And, in most cases, the man himself has confirmed either by phone or email, sometimes as little as 1.5 hours before he decided NOT TO SHOW. To intimate that these inexcusable breaches of common courtesy are somehow my fault is insulting. And to behave as though a decent person expressing displeasure at being treated disrespectfully is "sturm und drang" is inexplicable.

 

2. It seems as though you invariably champion the person who is, in effect, the cause of the aforementioned "sturm und drang" in these interactions. They are poor, misunderstood victims, while those of us who protest their hurtful behavior, are intolerant, ignorant, selfish and mean-spirited.

 

I'm very sorry when anyone is afflicted with a disease, a disorder, a neurological impairment or any other issue, but I will not be characterized as the villain of the piece just because I won't tolerate their behavior. Because I, too, have issues, dysfunctions and crazy-making habits. The difference between me and most of these people is that I am doing something about it on a daily basis. They are NOT. They throw their burdens over the backs of tolerant, well-meaning women/men, who are willing to "work with" their problems and then take a powder. Why bother to improve oneself when you have someone willing to martyr themselves for you?

 

The man I was involved with who has ADD has two divorces, a daughter who no longer has her father at home with her, a mother who has thrown up her hands, and literally in excess of 100 failed relationships. He is 52 years old. He has done absolutely NOTHING to improve his situation, and continues to wreak havoc in the lives of unsuspecting women. Never mind that his daughter may have the same problem -- why bother to do anything about your problem when you can always find a woman who enjoys a "fixer upper"? How many women will he send to therapy trying to figure out (as I did) what is wrong with them that he would treat them so poorly? To our credit, at least we sought help (for what was not really our problem to begin with), which is more than he's ever done. He was diagnosed and failed to follow up. Business as usual. It's only a matter of time before he runs across the wrong woman who will either injure or kill him (yes, he's been physically assaulted by some of the less stable women he's aggravated beyond the limit of their limited endurance), and then where will his daughter be then? I, like so many others, simply left him.

 

I have only recently extricated myself from a man who has suffered from a seizure disorder for 30 years. It took him a year to confide this to me (thank god, one of his issues was his inability to move a relationship forward except at the speed of a glacier), and now I see why his life is one lame catastrophe after another. He may be medicated for his condition, but it has nevertheless ruined him emotionally, for which he has sought no assistance. No wonder he is still unmarried at nearly 50 and is unable to sustain any sort of satisfying relationship with a real woman. In the old days, I would have hung in there, "working with him," trying to find the gold deeply hidden within all the crap, but I have wised up. I'm not here to "fix" anyone. These people need to fix themselves, or they are unwilling, they need to stay away from those who have expectations of stability, consideration and reciprocity which they cannot/will not deliver.

 

3. The comment about being beaten with tire irons was A JOKE. It's very sad that you have no ability to discern humor (no matter how poorly it's expressed) and take everything so bloody seriously.

 

With that, I'm leaving LS because, frankly moimene, you have ruined it for me with that poker up your butt.

 

So long, y'all, the others that I have enjoyed interacting with! See you on the flip side and have a great life!!!

[moimeme]

I'm very sorry when anyone is afflicted with a disease, a disorder, a neurological impairment or any other issue, but I will not be characterized as the villain of the piece just because I won't tolerate their behavior.

 

Seems to me we were discussing not your relationships, but one that snilljente is involved in.

 

Why bother to improve oneself when you have someone willing to martyr themselves for you?

 

I will bet you that this guy thinks he's grown out of the AD/HD. That was the conventional wisdom until studies showed otherwise. You misunderstand me; I hope not deliberately. I am not saying put up with this forever. I am not saying live this way until the day you die. I am saying understand that something may be at play here that neither of you is taking into account. Now it's not exactly easy for Snilljente to suggest to him that he never overcame the AD/HD this early on in the relationship. She could just try the confirming dates trick and see if it works. Then she can see if he has other symptoms or not and if she can deal with him or not.

 

You are assuming he knows of his situation and has refused to be treated. This is a huge leap.

 

He is 52 years old. He has done absolutely NOTHING to improve his situation, and continues to wreak havoc in the lives of unsuspecting women.

 

Sure, and, if you read what I said, you'll know I had such a fellow in my life as well. He's there no longer for those reasons. But they aren't all that way and many get better once they realize what's up with them. All I'm saying is don't toss in the towel that quickly if you like the guy otherwise. Good guys aren't a dime a dozen, you know. They don't even come in dozens.

 

How many women will he send to therapy trying to figure out (as I did) what is wrong with them that he would treat them so poorly?

 

Well, I spent a year and a half researching the issue.

 

I would have hung in there, "working with him," trying to find the gold deeply hidden within all the crap, but I have wised up. I'm not here to "fix" anyone. These people need to fix themselves, or they are unwilling, they need to stay away from those who have expectations of stability, consideration and reciprocity which they cannot/will not deliver.

 

Again, you assume they are simply not doing so. All I'm saying is find out. How difficult is that???

 

As for leaving, don't be foolish. I have continually tried to persuade you that life isn't as bad nor as full of grief as you seem to insist on wanting to believe. I perceive you as not very happy and hoped to help change your perspective. Perhaps the bitter persona was assumed only for humour's sake, but all you ever had to do was to say that.

 

And this time, I am advocating, as I always do, to not cut someone off at the knees too quickly. To me, making negative assumptions so quickly is cutting off one's own nose - to what end?

 

I get that you've had a rough ride and that you've determined not to do so again and to warn others against making similar mistakes, but sometimes we go too far the other way in reacting to events in our lives. I just advocate for a middle way. Sorry if that bugs you.

[shamen]

Hi ladies,

 

I haven't checked in on this post in a while, but I wanted to say hey. As for me, part of this is my own fault. I, as mentioned much earlier, am in the beginning stage of a relationship and do not do well expressing any feelings whatsoever. So, the first two times that this happened, I said nothing. Didn't say that it bothered me, etc. So, this third time, I receive a phone call two days later with an apology.

 

I said, "Hey, this is the third time that you've done this to me." "Third?" he asked. And through discussing it with him realized that it really wasn't the third time. That the first time he said that he might meet me there and the second I left earlier than he expected me to. So, on some level the communication issue wasn't the best that it could have been.

 

Regardless, I saw him Sunday and things were good. He apologized for Friday and I do understand his reasons, but I certainly don't plan on dealing with getting blown off again for a "bigger deal" date with absolutely no phone call. A Friday, nonetheless. It's much too early on for me to go back to dealing with this kind of crap again on a regular basis like I dealt with with my ex. Don't want to repeat past mistakes.

 

Snilljente,

 

Hope that things are OK with you.

 

Kaia,

 

Please don't let my silly post (I started it) be the reason you leave LS. We're just having a discussion here...

[snilljente]

Well, after leaving him my message Sunday night before bed just saying that I missed him and just wanted to say hi...he called Monday around 1:30 pm....left a message saying hi.....I was having a busy day at work...so around 4 when I was just about to get back to him, he called again...we talked for quite a while...and again later that evening.....he called again this morning and I called him back later in the day...we talked alot.....

 

Like Shamen, I must honestly say that I must really work to be crystal clear in my communication......I was married to a man that I could barely communicate with for nearly 10 years and my communication skills never got developed (I was with him since the age of 21)...so I know that this is not my strong point and that I cannot expect anyone to read my mind. I am not excusing his flaky behavior and we have talked and he has said that he knows that he has to work on his fears and I have to work on mine...he then said that we should go to dinner one night this week......that in and of itself was huge...I do think that ADHD plays a part and that it will take some more time for me to see if this man is someone I can rely on and build a relationship with, but I also know that I need to do my own work at communicating my needs/wants better to him and perhaps letting him know my time frames when I am expecting to hear back from him.......We will see where this leads.....in any case, he and I have been able to continue communicating through the ups and downs and he is someone that I want in my life........

[moimeme]

...he then said that we should go to dinner one night this week......that in and of itself was huge...I do think that ADHD plays a part

 

So next time you speak, remind him of the dinner. If he's forgotten, it's another bit of evidence it's you-know-what. At this point, given what's gone before, don't expect him to remember so if he hasn't mentioned it, bring it up.

[snilljente]

Yes, I barely talked to him today and he didn't mention the dinner...it's so confusing...knowing what to do...I mean, have you read that book, He's Just Not That Into You....according to that book, I should have said goodbye to him long ago......Are some guys really that slow at getting into a relationship or is he just not THAT interested...I mean, he has been calling me off and on since September...I do know that he was dating someone else for a while, not exclusively and when he and I "got together" I told him that I did not want to share him....he said that he could take care of the situation, that she was not a girlfriend, etc...but then he is not showing me the attention that I would expect a guy who's totally into someone to show.....at least not consistently..it comes in waves.......he says he doesn't want to jump into anything.....

[moimeme]

OK. Back to the AD/HD. He may have forgotten. You should have brought it up. Then, if he tried to brush it off or say something else has come up, maybe then you can start concluding he's not into you. But until you eliminate forgetfulness, you won't know. So bring it up!!!!

[snilljente]

OK, I should mention that I told this guy that I had Herpes, which was very difficult for me to do and he was very understanding...I think that says something.....I will bring up the dinner and just say, "oh yeah, when did you want to get together for dinner....Sat might be fun.." or something like that....Also, my girlfriend and I are going out tommorow night because Friday is a holiday for us and I wanted to call him and tell him that he and his single friend, who I think might be a good match for my girlfriend, should show up if they like...but I am afraid of rejection.....and/or seeming to eager......do I leave all of the plans making up to him or is it ok for me to take the lead....I don't want to push...I have told him that I miss him, that he is welcome to crash at my place whenever he wants so that he doesn't have to drive an hour home every night (he works in my area)....he has done this a few times, but not as much as I'd like or expect if he was ga ga over me......Geez, I wish this wasn't such a puzzle...