Cheaters are BROKEN?!

[goodyblue]

Chill. You have no idea what would make me feel better, just like you have no idea what really happened in their marriage.

 

 

This is the second or third time you've said this. Obviously, its your issue. But, to think that I share an observation because I want you to be unhappy or your R to crash and burn its nutso. I have no affect on your R. Your R has a lot of hallmarks for being problematic. If you choose to disregard that, go to it.

 

 

As for whether or not you are married. No need to be snarky, just say you are or you aren't. You use the terms my guy, R, lived together....not normally the terms people who are married use. If you are married, I don't recall seeing you say so. If you are, then say so and I stand corrected.

 

 

I was an OW, BS to the same man, now happily reconciled with the same man for many years. I know something of which I speak. Not that one has to be any of those things to understand what I have said. But, again if you choose to ignore the collective wisdom of other women, go to it. There is no plot to make you unhappy. Take off your tin foil hat.

 

Omg. That is just the funniest post I have read in a long time. Tin foil hat? I.made a statement, you questioned, I responded. I keep saying it because you keep questioning my words. I never said you were plotting to make me unhappy. I think you feel you know more than I do about my relationship than I do. You don't. Enjoy your day.

[velvette]

Omg. That is just the funniest post I have read in a long time. Tin foil hat? I.made a statement, you questioned, I responded. I keep saying it because you keep questioning my words. I never said you were plotting to make me unhappy. I think you feel you know more than I do about my relationship than I do. You don't. Enjoy your day.

 

 

 

So are you married or not?

[goodyblue]

So are you married or not?

 

If we were, it would be something that we would keep quiet for now. Catch my drift?

[velvette]

If we were, it would be something that we would keep quiet for now. Catch my drift?

 

 

Ummm......no. What I get is that you are playing games and are not married.

 

 

So, I will predict that that will be the first major disillusionment you will face.........that he will not marry you when you want with the excuse he has been "burned" before.

 

 

Good luck.

[goodyblue]

Ummm......no. What I get is that you are playing games and are not married.

 

 

So, I will predict that that will be the first major disillusionment you will face.........that he will not marry you when you want with the excuse he has been "burned" before.

 

 

Good luck.

 

It is simply a matter of not sharing info. On This site in particular. There are certain other people that read this site and I would prefer not to answer that question. Not a matter of commitment, or lack thereof.

[velvette]

It is simply a matter of not sharing info. On This site in particular. There are certain other people that read this site and I would prefer not to answer that question. Not a matter of commitment, or lack thereof.

 

Whatever. I am done with this conversation. I don't play other peoples dysfunctional games.

[Got it]

Jumping in exceedingly late to this. My argument on this is with the term that someone is broken. This statement is indicating a judgement about the person as a whole which, my belief, we are the sum of our parts. So the focus is on the actions not the totality of the person.

 

I think, instead, looking why certain behaviors or thinking styles were chosen is far more important than needing to prove whether or not "someone is broken". This is a finite statement and does not leave room for nuance, etc. And I don't see it like that.

 

Do some people show very unhealthy behavioral patterns? Sure, I would say serial killers are defined by the sum of their parts and that is easy to conclude they are most likely broken (at the very least have a lot of very poor, very toxic, very antisocial coping mechanisms). But the broad brush on cheating, I really don't agree.

 

But it really doesn't matter, does it? I don't think any true definition will be defined on LS, in a court of law, etc. that is going to decide that anything said, on both sides here, will become finite. I will says that laws are showing a more hands off approach on mores in regards to this than in decades past and that trend is showing to continue as a societal view of government's role in marriages/ personal lives (based on US and other western countries. Actually the US is far more puritanical than other countries)

 

But while the macro view of this is showing a more lenient trend does not change the micro impact on individuals.

 

So what I think is far more importance to focus on is the why/reasoning/thought process, not the summation of a person. If one believes we are the sum of our parts, we are going to evaluate subjectively our totality based on that. But, for the WS, it is their judgement of themselves and their actions that is key, for the BS it is their judgment of the total sum of the relationship and their boundaries/deal breakers. Sweeping generalizations help no one, I don't believe, but to each their own. If someone wants to be say/believe that someone is broken that is their right.

[LifesontheUp]

Um. We have had to deal with conflict in our R. I think being therapy has helped to stay away from those pitfalls. We have been together for a few years, it is not as though he left a week ago. Lived together for some time.

 

He takes responsibility for the failure of his previous marriage. He knows what brought things to the brink. But when someone goes from "I am sorry I hated sex, I felt fat so I pulled away" to "It doesn't matter what I did, you cheated and that is worse", that is a problem. I was making a point about his ex, not blaming her alone. He stands by the fact that her removing herself emotionally and sexually irreparably damaged things. It was his response as to it that was not what it should have been. As I said before, everyone has their own version of events. Three sides to every story etc.

 

I think most BS seem to be as/more broken than any OW. I think they were before the affair tool

 

I just feel they were not a good match. We are. Simple as that.

 

I think that therapy was a very good idea.

 

Don't forget that he married his xW and that means that they were a good fit in the beginning too?

[velvette]

One of the ways that cheaters and frequently those who cheat with them are broken is that despite the fact they are the ones violating what most people consider right/wrong(i.e. not cheating/lying/participating in dishonesty) is that THEY are always the victim. Pretty clear illustrations of that in this thread.

[LifesontheUp]

And good on you for your interpretive reading skills. How do you get "wasted your life" out of a post about a husband's affair while she was away, caring for her dying father?

 

Seems like someone knows my life or I hit a nerve.

 

Anyway looks like they've been banned or did they work out it was someones spare id

Edited December 10, 2014 by LifesontheUp
referring to ETERNAL not Merrmeade

[goodyblue]

I think that therapy was a very good idea.

 

Don't forget that he married his xW and that means that they were a good fit in the beginning too?

 

I think it is impossible to say because they were 18 years old and had no idea who they were. We are pretty clear on who we are as people and what matters to us, what we need to be happy, what we look for in a partner.

 

And yes, therapy helped tremendously, esp. with communication.

[velvette]

Jumping in exceedingly late to this. My argument on this is with the term that someone is broken. This statement is indicating a judgement about the person as a whole which, my belief, we are the sum of our parts. So the focus is on the actions not the totality of the person.

 

I think, instead, looking why certain behaviors or thinking styles were chosen is far more important than needing to prove whether or not "someone is broken". This is a finite statement and does not leave room for nuance, etc. And I don't see it like that.

 

Do some people show very unhealthy behavioral patterns? Sure, I would say serial killers are defined by the sum of their parts and that is easy to conclude they are most likely broken (at the very least have a lot of very poor, very toxic, very antisocial coping mechanisms). But the broad brush on cheating, I really don't agree.

 

But it really doesn't matter, does it? I don't think any true definition will be defined on LS, in a court of law, etc. that is going to decide that anything said, on both sides here, will become finite. I will says that laws are showing a more hands off approach on mores in regards to this than in decades past and that trend is showing to continue as a societal view of government's role in marriages/ personal lives (based on US and other western countries. Actually the US is far more puritanical than other countries)

 

But while the macro view of this is showing a more lenient trend does not change the micro impact on individuals.

 

So what I think is far more importance to focus on is the why/reasoning/thought process, not the summation of a person. If one believes we are the sum of our parts, we are going to evaluate subjectively our totality based on that. But, for the WS, it is their judgement of themselves and their actions that is key, for the BS it is their judgment of the total sum of the relationship and their boundaries/deal breakers. Sweeping generalizations help no one, I don't believe, but to each their own. If someone wants to be say/believe that someone is broken that is their right.

 

 

In general I agree. People are usually broken or dysfunctional in certain ways and that doesn't always bleed over into all parts of their lives. On the other hand, sometimes it does. Depends on the person.

 

 

My H was a serial cheater. But beyond that he was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. The one led to the other. And, although he was not always dysfunctional or broken, both things pretty much bled over at some point in time to all aspects of his life until he got extensive therapy to deal with it.

[LifesontheUp]

I think it is impossible to say because they were 18 years old and had no idea who they were. We are pretty clear on who we are as people and what matters to us, what we need to be happy, what we look for in a partner.

 

And yes, therapy helped tremendously, esp. with communication.

 

As we get older I think most people mature and know what they want in life. Sometimes couples who marry young grow together and I think more increasingly these days more grow apart. Imo it's because people quite often don't work on their marriage. They move on and meet someone else.

 

I think its important that he went to therapy as that'll help him understand where it went wrong and hopefully how to work at his relationship with you so that his contribution to the decline of the marriage doesn't happen with you.

[elaine567]

 

Don't forget that he married his xW and that means that they were a good fit in the beginning too?

 

What a ridiculous thing to say.

I view that comment as actually a pretty nasty thing to say to goodyblue.

 

So we all need to stay with our first serious partners, because they ONCE were a good fit...

 

And no-one should ever get into any relationship with a second timer, because "he married his xW and that means that they were a good fit in the beginning too"

 

I get that some get pissed off with OWs and for some they should all go to hell and damnation, but I am prepared to accept that there are circumstances and there are circumstances in all relationships.

 

I am all for happy people and someone always gets hurt in a break up, whether there is cheating or not, sometimes people just have to jump at happiness, where they can find it.

I do not condone cheating, but am not going to judge either, I wasn't there...

[LifesontheUp]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

I view that comment as actually a pretty nasty thing to say to goodyblue.

 

So we all need to stay with our first serious partners, because they ONCE were a good fit...

 

And no-one should ever get into any relationship with a second timer, because "he married his xW and that means that they were a good fit in the beginning too"

 

I get that some get pissed off with OWs and for some they should all go to hell and damnation, but I am prepared to accept that there are circumstances and there are circumstances in all relationships.

 

I am all for happy people and someone always gets hurt in a break up, whether there is cheating or not, sometimes people just have to jump at happiness, where they can find it.

I do not condone cheating, but am not going to judge either, I wasn't there...

 

Dear dear me.

 

Unless he had a gun to his head he married her because he loved her and they fit.

 

Before you jump on my post perhaps you should read the rest. Take your anger elsewhere and stop putting words into my mouth

[elaine567]

...and every couple who marries is a good fit?

A bit of an assumption there perhaps?

[velvette]

As we get older I think most people mature and know what they want in life. Sometimes couples who marry young grow together and I think more increasingly these days more grow apart. Imo it's because people quite often don't work on their marriage. They move on and meet someone else.

 

I think its important that he went to therapy as that'll help him understand where it went wrong and hopefully how to work at his relationship with you so that his contribution to the decline of the marriage doesn't happen with you.

 

Interesting. The first thing I did after I separated from my H was put a pic of myself at 18 on my fridge. I knew then who I was and what I wanted.

 

 

I still have that pic in a place I see it freguently.

[elaine567]

The first thing I did after I separated from my H was put a pic of myself at 18 on my fridge. I knew then who I was and what I wanted.

 

I can understand that sentiment.

[goodyblue]

Interesting. The first thing I did after I separated from my H was put a pic of myself at 18 on my fridge. I knew then who I was and what I wanted.

 

 

I still have that pic in a place I see it freguently.

 

 

I am a MUCh different person than I was at 18. I have grown and changed tremendously, thank God.

[LifesontheUp]

...and every couple who marries is a good fit?

A bit of an assumption there perhaps?

 

If he married of own free will. Why not?

[goodyblue]

If he married of own free will. Why not?

 

Because a persons brain is not even fully developed until the age of 25. Because people grow up. Develop different interests. Grow in a different direction from their spouse. It doesn't always happen but i.don't know how you could argue that it does always.

 

Why stay married to someone you detest?

[Realist3]

I have not read all of the responses to this thread, and I will make an attempt to do so.

 

This morning when I was waking up it finally hit me. It is not a broken person it is ALL about conflict avoidance. Prior to going to bed I was in a lengthy discussion with an attorney that works for the firm I still own, and we were hashing out questions he would be asking in court in a couple of days. It didn't hit me then, nor has it ever overtly, but we were creating conflict with what we were posing to ask. Humans by nature are conflict avoidant to varying degrees.

 

Then at 5:00 am it struck me. Most people that engage in affairs are avoiding conflict. They are avoiding a known conflict in their marriage, and the easy way out is the affair.

 

The solidification of this notion became even clearer when thought back on my now experience with my mother in law in our business adventure that is currently taking place. The background is too long, but to humor my wife I entered into a business partnership with her mom. Just like my wife, her mom can't handle conflict. "I don't want to talk about it." In business you are going to have conflicts no matter what. So in essence you have a Dyson rug sweeping operation going on. The exact same reason my wife doesn't ever want to talk about our marriage or my affair. Rug sweeps. I know where she got it.

 

Back to the affair deal, I believe that is what you are dealing with in cheaters. People who choose to avoid conflict/

[goodyblue]

I have not read all of the responses to this thread, and I will make an attempt to do so.

 

This morning when I was waking up it finally hit me. It is not a broken person it is ALL about conflict avoidance. Prior to going to bed I was in a lengthy discussion with an attorney that works for the firm I still own, and we were hashing out questions he would be asking in court in a couple of days. It didn't hit me then, nor has it ever overtly, but we were creating conflict with what we were posing to ask. Humans by nature are conflict avoidant to varying degrees.

 

Then at 5:00 am it struck me. Most people that engage in affairs are avoiding conflict. They are avoiding a known conflict in their marriage, and the easy way out is the affair.

 

The solidification of this notion became even clearer when thought back on my now experience with my mother in law in our business adventure that is currently taking place. The background is too long, but to humor my wife I entered into a business partnership with her mom. Just like my wife, her mom can't handle conflict. "I don't want to talk about it." In business you are going to have conflicts no matter what. So in essence you have a Dyson rug sweeping operation going on. The exact same reason my wife doesn't ever want to talk about our marriage or my affair. Rug sweeps. I know where she got it.

 

Back to the affair deal, I believe that is what you are dealing with in cheaters. People who choose to avoid conflict/

 

Sweet baby jesus. This is your big reveal?

[Realist3]

Call me stupid.

[merrmeade]

Call me stupid.

You really crack me up, R3. It wasn't always the case. I got my one and only infraction because one of your threads made me completely insane. But I see now that you're really just what you put out there - no hidden agendas - and when you get it, you say so, and when you don't... Well, it drives people nuts.

 

But, yeah, conflict avoidance. Good job. Next? What will you do as a result of your epiphany? Do you go face the conflicts you've been avoiding in your marriage?

Edited December 10, 2014 by merrmeade