Risk of marriage vs expectation of the affair

[DKT3]

The other day in MC we finally reached the subject of why my wife would risk our marriage being that she had no desire for a "REAL" relationship with OM.

 

I have mentioned this many times here and some BS's seem to think the fact that lovin didn't enjoy sex nor was ever convincing herself that she was "in love" with OM that it somehow made it easier for me to R with her.

 

I can honestly say that when it all happened I was hurt and angry, yet when I finally understood that her feelings for and expectations of OM were basically nothing it put me into a rage. If it meant nothing why do it? I sometimes feel I could better understand her motives if she were having fantasies about a life together or she had some deeper connection with him. That may seem odd to some.

 

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened. He says her motives could have shifted on a daily or even hourly bases. I guess I just question my worth to her at the time if she was willing to risk it all without any desire to actaully be with OM.

 

Not really a question, really just looking for an open debate that will help me shed some light.

[spanz1]

translation of MC's comment: "you can't explain crazy"

[purplesorrow]

I completely get what you are saying. I felt the same way, he threw us away for nothing. He dropped the ow on dday like nothing. In his mind, he wasn't risking his marriage, he never planned on leaving. Thoughts of me during the affair only consisted of how to evade me and keep his secret. You can't understand it because it is something you would probably never consider doing.

[jbrent890]

I may be wrong because I don't know the stats on this, but to me, the majority of WSs, don't intend on leaving their BSs, especially WHs. I remeber reading that the majority of WHs just cheat because they crave variety in their sex lives. The vast majority had no intention of leaving their wives, especially if the marriage was good. In terms of others, most cheat out of a selfish desire to get what's missing in their marriage. Why leave your spouse if you are currently getting 100% of their needs met? Also, after reading some threads on here, some WSs know that a real life relationship with their AP would never happen. Cheating is used as an escape just like doing drugs or drinking. Why risk it is a question for WSs. From what I noticed, most think they won't get caught and if they do, they think it wouldn't end the marriage. I actually think Lovin might have said something like that. I may be wrong though.

[velvette]

translation of MC's comment: "you can't explain crazy"

 

 

Or as Dr. Phil who I am not usually a big fan of says, "Stop trying to make sense out of nonsense."

 

 

You are making a big assumption that your wife even thought about what she was doing. I think most cheaters are impulsive and don't spend a ton of time thinking through the possible consequences of their actions. Or if they do, they think they are smart enough to avoid the possible consequences.

 

 

People who are introspective and think clearly before they do things, simply wouldn't make the choices that cheaters make because most of the choices cheaters make are irrational. Reading their thoughts and statements here should be enough to prove that to you.

 

 

Also, a lot of them are driven by emotions because thinking about why they are doing things is too painful.....in most cases the why has to do with their own deep unresolved issues.

[Arieswoman]

DKT3,

I am sorry you are hurting over this.

 

Here's a thread I started over cheaters' excuses and I listed the comments my exH made after DD. As you can see they make no sense whatsoever.

 

ttps://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/504805-cheaters-scripted-responses-after-dd

 

It may be that you will never get any answer to your question as to "why?", I never did.

 

Sorry x

[Mal78]

The other day in MC we finally reached the subject of why my wife would risk our marriage being that she had no desire for a "REAL" relationship with OM.

 

I have mentioned this many times here and some BS's seem to think the fact that lovin didn't enjoy sex nor was ever convincing herself that she was "in love" with OM that it somehow made it easier for me to R with her.

 

I can honestly say that when it all happened I was hurt and angry, yet when I finally understood that her feelings for and expectations of OM were basically nothing it put me into a rage. If it meant nothing why do it? I sometimes feel I could better understand her motives if she were having fantasies about a life together or she had some deeper connection with him. That may seem odd to some.

 

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened. He says her motives could have shifted on a daily or even hourly bases. I guess I just question my worth to her at the time if she was willing to risk it all without any desire to actaully be with OM.

 

Not really a question, really just looking for an open debate that will help me shed some light.

 

Sometimes I believe the WS says what they *think* we want to hear. You do open a very valid question, "Why risk it all if it meant nothing". It never means nothing. There are always motives to an affair, there is always a reason and those reasons are always rationalized by the risk.

 

I find affairs are like any kind of addiction. It rarely is about the sex, however the adrenaline of the risk. Every text, email, phone call... encounter is added to the high, the fantasy and the rush. There is always a craving for more and what the next phase will bring if it only ends with an EA and sometimes that is all the WS needs. One might not understand it unless the experience it themselves. Unless you are willing to go after the same experience you will always seek answers and none will ever be fully understood.

 

If you, thru therapy can't eventually come to terms with not ever understanding it then this relationship will never be R.

[jnel921]

DKT3...Big hugs to you.

 

Most of us BS here understand your feelings. I have seen recent posts here but other members questioning their WS motives and decisions...meanwhile they are in R and a few years past DDAY.

 

I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of those poor choices. I truly believe that our WS lusted and acted without the thought of what the risks were. Consequence went out the door.

 

I truly believe that there may be a mental flaw that our WS need to work on. My H didn't just hurt me, he hurt his good friend. Who the hell does that? I stayed but he lost a dear friend due to his selfishness.

 

I personally cannot spend too much time dissecting the actions, reasons and feelings because in the end it may undo everything we have worked so hard to rebuild.

 

Your W has either has taken accountability, is truly remorseful and giving 150% to your relationship or she is the same person who cheated.

 

If she is the first, which it sounds like according to her very remorseful posts, then work with this. This is who she is now. Sometimes it takes a great extreme to teach us the biggest life lessons. If she loves you this will never happen again.

 

It's great that you are working on your M. The purpose of MC is to understand the issues and get the tools you need to make it better. Focus on the better. You will be ok. Some of us here are doing the same thing. Working on being better for each other.

 

Good Luck!

[DKT3]

I completely get what you are saying. I felt the same way, he threw us away for nothing. He dropped the ow on dday like nothing. In his mind, he wasn't risking his marriage, he never planned on leaving. Thoughts of me during the affair only consisted of how to evade me and keep his secret. You can't understand it because it is something you would probably never consider doing.

 

Yeah she dropped OM at the slightest hint that I was aware of what was going on.

 

She has told me that there was little to no connection between the affair and how it would impact our marriage and me.

[DKT3]

DKT3,

I am sorry you are hurting over this.

 

Here's a thread I started over cheaters' excuses and I listed the comments my exH made after DD. As you can see they make no sense whatsoever.

 

ttps://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/504805-cheaters-scripted-responses-after-dd

 

It may be that you will never get any answer to your question as to "why?", I never did.

 

Sorry x

 

I understand HER why's in terms of how she got to the affair. I guess what I saying is why him, if she didn't see a future, in a fake one or even fantasy. I don't know, I just can wrap my mind around it.

[DKT3]

DKT3...Big hugs to you.

 

Most of us BS here understand your feelings. I have seen recent posts here but other members questioning their WS motives and decisions...meanwhile they are in R and a few years past DDAY.

 

I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of those poor choices. I truly believe that our WS lusted and acted without the thought of what the risks were. Consequence went out the door.

 

I truly believe that there may be a mental flaw that our WS need to work on. My H didn't just hurt me, he hurt his good friend. Who the hell does that? I stayed but he lost a dear friend due to his selfishness.

 

I personally cannot spend too much time dissecting the actions, reasons and feelings because in the end it may undo everything we have worked so hard to rebuild.

 

Your W has either has taken accountability, is truly remorseful and giving 150% to your relationship or she is the same person who cheated.

 

If she is the first, which it sounds like according to her very remorseful posts, then work with this. This is who she is now. Sometimes it takes a great extreme to teach us the biggest life lessons. If she loves you this will never happen again.

 

It's great that you are working on your M. The purpose of MC is to understand the issues and get the tools you need to make it better. Focus on the better. You will be ok. Some of us here are doing the same thing. Working on being better for each other.

 

Good Luck!

 

I've really tried not to have this desire to understand, but its who I am. Its just the way I'm wired.

 

I have no doubt that she would never do it again, I know it sounds stupid since its the way I felt before it happened in the first place.

[purplesorrow]

I understand HER why's in terms of how she got to the affair. I guess what I saying is why him, if she didn't see a future, in a fake one or even fantasy. I don't know, I just can wrap my mind around it.

 

It's like my husband told me, any woman worth it wouldn't have accepted his offer. He found someone who was flattered to be on the side. He knew he could give her the option of sharing, but not me. He knew I wouldn't consider it. Sounds the same for your wife.

[Realist3]

The other day in MC we finally reached the subject of why my wife would risk our marriage being that she had no desire for a "REAL" relationship with OM.

 

I have mentioned this many times here and some BS's seem to think the fact that lovin didn't enjoy sex nor was ever convincing herself that she was "in love" with OM that it somehow made it easier for me to R with her.

 

I can honestly say that when it all happened I was hurt and angry, yet when I finally understood that her feelings for and expectations of OM were basically nothing it put me into a rage. If it meant nothing why do it? I sometimes feel I could better understand her motives if she were having fantasies about a life together or she had some deeper connection with him. That may seem odd to some.

 

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened. He says her motives could have shifted on a daily or even hourly bases. I guess I just question my worth to her at the time if she was willing to risk it all without any desire to actaully be with OM.

 

Not really a question, really just looking for an open debate that will help me shed some light.

 

 

I would agree with him 100%.

 

In my case I never thought about what I was risking until I got busted.

[thirtysomethingteen]

It is very hard to give a logical answer about behavior that is completely illogical.

 

You know how close I came to doing something really dumb, and I have no clear or understandable reason why myself. Yes, the OM showered me with attention and compliments, but so did(does) my husband - so it's not like I was neglected at home and in need of validation. In fact the OM and my H were so similiar in how they complimented me that I felt like I was listening to a broken record at times. Nor was I unhappy. In fact I can honestly say that prior to the nonsense starting that I was the happiest I'd been in years - both with myself and with my marriage.

 

I guess the closest I can come to explaining it is to say that I was addicted to the dopamine high I got from the OM. Once I got a few tastes of it I just kept going back for more, and before I knew it I felt like I couldn't get by without it. After seeing the OM (in a group setting) I would go back to work and walk around with a dopey grin for the rest of the day (or longer). Nothing bothered me anymore because I was on top if the world. I was praised at my review for my consistently positive attitude in the face of stress. I also became increasingly dependent on the high, as addicts do. Rough morning at work? Email OM. Get response. Cue dopamine high.

 

You told me yourself DKT3 that I was in a fog and you had me pegged. And from my experience it's almost impossible to think logically while in a fog, or think of anyone but oneself. Not that it's an excuse because I willingly ventured into the fog, but it's the closest I can come to explaining it. I too entertained no delusions of riding off into the sunset with the OM, but I still gave no thought to my husband or my marriage. I lived completely inside my own head, and my husband lived with a vacant eyed shell of a wife.

 

As for my husband's affairs (although we weren't married when they took place) there was no dopamine high. If anything they were a form of self harm. Far from living in his own head, he didn't think of them at all, rather "put them in a box." (His words). When D-day came and he was forced to not only think of them but try to explain them, he said the subsequent pain was the worst he had ever felt - even worse than losing his father in a tragic accident in his early twenties.

 

I hope that helps give you some insight into what goes on (or rather what doesn't) in the mind of cheaters.

[Bartlett67]

I've been in MC for over a year w my fWH. Our counselor has said numerous times that for BSes, crazy is part of the deal. It is for pretty much everyone. So, perhaps what you need doesn't seem rational. That doesn't mean much in the face of profound betrayal.

[Red123]

I've really tried not to have this desire to understand, but its who I am. Its just the way I'm wired.

 

I have no doubt that she would never do it again, I know it sounds stupid since its the way I felt before it happened in the first place.

 

I can't offer you any debate in this area, I am exactly the same. My need to understand is what I believe is my my biggest struggle to moving forward in my R. I don't think it sounds stupid that you say she would never do it again, she has learned a lot through this experience that has hopefully( it looks like it from her posts) changed her for the better. Why would she work so hard to be with you just to do it again. I believe that their are spouses out here that do learn and become better partners.

[velvette]

The other day in MC we finally reached the subject of why my wife would risk our marriage being that she had no desire for a "REAL" relationship with OM.

 

I have mentioned this many times here and some BS's seem to think the fact that lovin didn't enjoy sex nor was ever convincing herself that she was "in love" with OM that it somehow made it easier for me to R with her.

 

I can honestly say that when it all happened I was hurt and angry, yet when I finally understood that her feelings for and expectations of OM were basically nothing it put me into a rage. If it meant nothing why do it? I sometimes feel I could better understand her motives if she were having fantasies about a life together or she had some deeper connection with him. That may seem odd to some.

 

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened. He says her motives could have shifted on a daily or even hourly bases. I guess I just question my worth to her at the time if she was willing to risk it all without any desire to actaully be with OM.

 

Not really a question, really just looking for an open debate that will help me shed some light.

 

 

I missed this the first time around and its probably a valid question. More than likely she did not value you as she should have. Although I doubt she thought about or realized that.

 

 

The reason I say that is because someone who is having an A and inviting the inevitable fallout from that into their lives doesn't usually value themselves in a healthy way. When you don't value or love yourself enough to do whats healthy for yourself, you really cant value or love others in the way you should.

 

 

The important thing is whether or not today she has learned to love/value herself in a way that makes her capable of loving/valuing you in the way that you want. Not so important what she was doing then other than as a comparison.

[HereNorThere]

Think it's more of the classic rewriting of history. Don't listen to her words, listen to her actions. It obviously meant something because she wouldn't have taken it to the level she did if it didn't. I think she's probably being honest in the sense of it not meaning anything now, but that's how these people live. There is no forethought, only the moment, and in this moment, it meant nothing.

 

Let's just hope this moment continues to last, but make no make mistake about it, it meant something at the time. It meant EVERYTHING at the time. She had to lose everything before she realized it was meaningless.

[Ronni_W]

I understand HER why's in terms of how she got to the affair. I guess what I saying is why him, if she didn't see a future, in a fake one or even fantasy. I don't know, I just can wrap my mind around it.

Perhaps...or obviously, depending from which side one looks at it. But. Perhaps she had no interest in envisioning for herself a different future; not even a fake or fantasy different future? And then, perhaps THAT'S why who the 'him' was, wasn't so important to her?

 

Perhaps. Who the "him" was, was completely irrelevant to whatever it was that she was trying or hoping to experience or figure out, about herself, about life, about whatever it was that helped her to justify her choices and decisions at the time. That is, for her it could have been more, or even all, about the "what" that she was learning/experiencing...and the "who" she was learning/experiencing it with was just incidental; a necessary part of her bigger 'thing' that she was after, whatever that was.

 

She happened to want/choose/need some other person to help her in her "experiment" (or whatever she calls it), and this particular guy happened to 'show up' and make himself available for her to use as part of that "experiment" or experience (or whatever).

Whereas. Someone else, trying to experience or figure out the same thing(s) as your wife was, might turn to alcohol or gambling -- at the end of it, it does not matter so much (if at all) to them, if it's vodka or rum, or blackjack or texas hold'em. Or this person or that person.

It would only start to matter if one wanted to make it a permanent part of one's life...then one would start to be more discerning, decide on preferences, get emotionally invested.

 

From this perspective, then, it's not that you had less worth or he had more; it had nothing to do with the worth of either one of you. (I'm NOT saying that it didn't impact you or affect your own sense of identity, value and worth. Only...that one possibility is that SHE wasn't necessarily or consciously within herself, making a statement or a judgment about your - or his - worth and value.)

 

DKT3, I know so well that drive for understanding...it's a double-edged sword, for sure. Obviously here, I've attempted to offer a different way in to starting to understand/see something 'new'. I get that it equally just brings up new questions...but...hopefully some 'new' ones, that'll eventually lead you to having all the understanding that you want and need, around this.

 

My very best to you and your wife.

[Striver]

I understand HER why's in terms of how she got to the affair. I guess what I saying is why him, if she didn't see a future, in a fake one or even fantasy. I don't know, I just can wrap my mind around it.

 

Someone on another site once posted that all affairs are revenge affairs. I think that may apply in your case.

 

Reading your history, I do believe your W resented certain things that were going on in the marriage at the time. Whether the resentment was justified, or the depth of it, is immaterial to your question. People in LTRs lose perspective on what it's like to be without the LTR, particularly if they are poor communicators. I never cheated, but I can understand the attitude.

 

If your W went into the A with the attitude that it was a RA, it wouldn't matter much if there was a future with the guy. She was just trying to "get back at you" in her mind.

[drifter777]

The other day in MC we finally reached the subject of why my wife would risk our marriage being that she had no desire for a "REAL" relationship with OM.

 

I have mentioned this many times here and some BS's seem to think the fact that lovin didn't enjoy sex nor was ever convincing herself that she was "in love" with OM that it somehow made it easier for me to R with her.

 

I can honestly say that when it all happened I was hurt and angry, yet when I finally understood that her feelings for and expectations of OM were basically nothing it put me into a rage. If it meant nothing why do it? I sometimes feel I could better understand her motives if she were having fantasies about a life together or she had some deeper connection with him. That may seem odd to some.

 

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened. He says her motives could have shifted on a daily or even hourly bases. I guess I just question my worth to her at the time if she was willing to risk it all without any desire to actaully be with OM.

 

Not really a question, really just looking for an open debate that will help me shed some light.

If the bolded part is what he actually said and actually meant then he is a lousy therapist. This means he believes that "acceptance" is some sort of state of mind that you can decide to enter or not. That you should just swallow you emotions and trust that time will heal you and bring on this acceptance state of mind. This is ridicules. Acceptance is the emotional state you might reach after doing whatever work, investigation, understanding, empathy it takes for YOU to reach this level of peace of mind. You might never get there - do you accept THAT? If I was advising you, based on your post's, that's the question I'd keep asking you. If you never understand why it happened and are asked to blindly accept that she did it for kicks, do you think you can do that? Because after all this time and all the "accepting" of her behavior that has led you to begin trying to reconcile now after separation and divorce, this is where you are. This might not be the final step to your "acceptance" but its the step you are stuck at right now.

[DKT3]

Ronni W & Striver

 

You both make very good points and I can see it in what happened.

 

I'm absolutely sure there was an element of revenge in her affair. In fact it all started with her being about as mad at me as she ever had.

[Bryanp]

If the roles were reversed would she have accepted such nonsense from you?

I hope you both have been tested for STD's.

 

Her actions indicates (no matter what she says to you) that the survival of your marriage was not that high on her priority list she was willing to disrespect, humiliate and put your at risk for STD's as well.

 

If you don't respect yourself then who will?

[Buckeye2]

Yeah she dropped OM at the slightest hint that I was aware of what was going on.

 

Did she drop him after your friend saw her and the OM in a town two hours away from yours?

[Rainbowlove]

Our therapist has told me many times that he fears my drive to understand it all in every detail will be our undoning. He says that sometimes its best to except what's happened without having to understand why it happened.

 

Personally, if our MC suggested this, I'd be in the market for a new therapist.

 

I think the point of therapy is to help the couple come to a mutual understanding of some marital breakdowns individually and as a couple.

 

Just my two pennies.