Risk of marriage vs expectation of the affair

[jellybean89]

DK, I understand wanting to understand the why...can you accept what she has told you and let it go from that?

 

Remember, you are a dude, you will never think like a female. Even without infidelity, you will never wrap your head around some actions the females take. You can read books on chicks, the men vs mars book, etc...but come on, females minds are something of a mystery to the male gender and trying to make sense of it won't work. Just like females can't get why men are fixers vs listeners. It is just the differences in the DNA.

 

You know I wish you & Lovin much happiness and success in your lives together.

[Buckeye2]

Yeah, but the affairwasn't all that sexual. Very little physical in the affair.

 

 

It wasn't an FU in my face, but more of a FU for herself.

 

 

I agree that the “FU for herself” makes sense for a low intensity affair with little sex or passion. It was like she ckecked a box on a list.

 

 

I also think that the OM may have put in so much effort (listening to her whenever she wanted, etc.) that she felt she owed him. I know it sounds strange in an affair but she may have been giving him duty sex.

 

 

My issues is why do this with someone you don't care about enough to risk it for.

 

 

The best I can do for this that she thought she wouldn’t get caught. A passionless affair was very much under her control. She could take him or leave him and he danced to her tune.

 

 

All of that made her think the situation posed minimal risk. She also thought she was working with a net. i.e. You’re a stable family man who loved her. When push came to shove you would never divorce her. That why she freaked out when you filed.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Buckeye2

[DKT3]

And how do you know this?

 

I know because she has held nothing back and she had nothing to lose because she had already been served divorce papers. Besides it didn't matter to me if they had sex 2 times or 200 times.

[DKT3]

I agree that the “FU for herself” makes sense for a low intensity affair with little sex or passion. It was like she ckecked a box on a list.

 

 

I also think that the OM may have put in so much effort (listening to her whenever she wanted, etc.) that she felt she owed him. I know it sounds strange in an affair but she may have been giving him duty sex.

 

 

 

 

 

The best I can do for this that she thought she wouldn’t get caught. A passionless affair was very much under her control. She could take him or leave him and he danced to her tune.

 

 

All of that made her think the situation posed minimal risk. She also thought she was working with a net. i.e. You’re a stable family man who loved her. When push came to shove you would never divorce her. That why she freaked out when you filed.

 

This is true, and I believe that she even said he that even if I found out that I would stay with her.

[road]

I know because she has held nothing back and she had nothing to lose because she had already been served divorce papers. Besides it didn't matter to me if they had sex 2 times or 200 times.

 

 

 

So what makes you believe she is not still lying after D day.

[Selfish]

So what makes you believe she is not still lying after D day.

 

I believe he answered you? I get that you believe ALL WS lie and minimize and trickle truth. And if it doesn't fit some stereo type then it simply isn't true. But that just isn't the way it always is.

 

And as he said to him the amount of times don't matter so why are you picking?

[DKT3]

So what makes you believe she is not still lying after D day.

 

Trust me I know where your coming from. However you have to keep in mind her affair was about 8 years ago and we have been divorced 5 years. In that time her actions have matched her words and being that she has been honest about every thing that I could verify with or without her knowledge, I don't see why she would be dishonest about this one thing.

[DKT3]

I believe he answered you? I get that you believe ALL WS lie and minimize and trickle truth. And if it doesn't fit some stereo type then it simply isn't true. But that just isn't the way it always is.

 

And as he said to him the amount of times don't matter so why are you picking?

 

Thank you for your support.

 

However road being a betrayed husband at one point understands what comes with a WW. Mine did in fact, lied her a$$ off right up until she was served. It really took me a long time before I truly believed much of what she would say. Her first few "confessions" where lies or I should say half truths. She did minimize and trickle truth. Oh it was only a few months (in real life it was a shade under two years), oh we only kissed a few times (in real life they had intercourse 3X and did Bill Clinton type stuff another 3 or 4 times), how its been over for months (in real life they still had limited contact and he was still working her to run off with him).

 

Almost 8 years and only resently have I got all the truth, not her fault because she had tried to tell me things back when we first started "hanging out" without the kids involved, and I really had little to no interest because what we were doing was really all I expected at the time.

 

Once we moved to more of a commited thing we decided it was best to deal with the affair, thus the delay with her affair being so long ago.

[Red123]

So what makes you believe she is not still lying after D day.

 

What would be the point in her lying at this time? If she wasn't willing to own this I don't believe she would have worked so hard at getting her relationship back. If she really didn't want this she had the easiest out, they were split up, she chose to come back and agreed to his terms. I understand the thought that cheaters are always going to be lying but I don't always agree with it. I think people can change and more importantly learn from their choices. With reconciliation we(BS) have to decide at some point to believe them again otherwise R can't work. I like the trust but verify until comfortable but in this case her willingness to work consistently to earn back his trust speaks volumes in my mind.

[Rainbowlove]

I think people can change and more importantly learn from their choices. With reconciliation we(BS) have to decide at some point to believe them again otherwise R can't work. I like the trust but verify until comfortable but in this case her willingness to work consistently to earn back his trust speaks volumes in my mind.

 

I wanted to agree with this and the thought of waywards changing. If a WS is willing to change and work towards understanding why they chose the road they chose, then yes, they can change and learn and grow and NEVER repeat.

 

Example for me happened this weekend; I call them the light bulbs. My partner and I were in bed talking remembering loved ones who've passed on. My partner lost her dad just before we met 20 years ago. I asked her if there was a time of year that she thought of him and missed him more? She answered, I thought I knew her answer, but asked anyway in case I didn't.

 

Turns out, I was right. I did know when she missed him most, but I asked. After she responded, I assumed she'd ask me the same question about my gram (who raised me). She passed away 6 years ago. Instead, I heard silence. She didn't ask me anything. She closed her eyes and prepared to sleep.

 

I was hurt and took her lack of questioning as "she didn't care enough" to ask me. I began to internalize her lack of questioning and I started to feel bad about it and us and my mind was spinning and I was going to just roll over and go to sleep with all of those negative thoughts and feelings like I had done in the past.

 

Imagine just rolling over for 5, 10, 15 or 20 years feeling less than, feeling not thought of or important enough...

 

And then the light bulb came on. I stopped and said...wait....this is wayward thinking. This is exactly what got me to where I never want to go again. So I sat up and said, don't you want to know when I most miss my grandmother? She said, I already know when you miss her and answered my question. She was correct with her answer and then I got it. It's not that she doesn't care, it's that she assumes she knows something about me and I take her silence as not caring.

 

Anyway, the point is that we have light bulbs that go off. I now can recognize them. My wife and I talked about this the next day. She thanked me for sharing my light bulb moment with her. I think we both came to a deeper level of understanding how we both work and how not to assume anything about the other.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Rainbowlove

[drifter777]

I believe you when you say it doesn't matter if they had sex 2 or 200 times. And that because of this there is no reason for her to lie about it. I can't know whether she is lying but I believe ALL (yes, all) WW's minimize/lie about the sex - that they will take the whole truth to their grave. No matter what you say or how you act she will always believe she is "sparing" you from more pain by withholding sexual information. But there is simply nothing you can do about it so I guess it doesn't matter anyway. All BH's need to accept this or they will drive themselves and their WW crazy. I just wanted to state my firm belief on this issue.

[Selfish]

I believe you when you say it doesn't matter if they had sex 2 or 200 times. And that because of this there is no reason for her to lie about it. I can't know whether she is lying but I believe ALL (yes, all) WW's minimize/lie about the sex - that they will take the whole truth to their grave. No matter what you say or how you act she will always believe she is "sparing" you from more pain by withholding sexual information. But there is simply nothing you can do about it so I guess it doesn't matter anyway. All BH's need to accept this or they will drive themselves and their WW crazy. I just wanted to state my firm belief on this issue.

 

You do know what it means to be bigoted right? You are simply and plainly WRONG (see how I empathized that just like you did all). I did not lie/ minimize the sex in my case. In fact my spouse had to stop me from doing a play by play. Don't think you know it all about every single little person who has ever and will ever cheat, every single thing about every single man who has or will ever be cheated on, and every single thing about each situation. Because you don't know. Know one knows everything. Just because you want to believe so badly that every single WS minimizes/lies about the sex does not make it true. Why is it so important for you to think your are always right? To think you know everything? What issues in yourself could you work on that would make you a better person who accepts that they simply cannot know everything about everything? And that one size does not fit all. No matter how much you want them to? And why is it important to you that this is true? Because to believe something like that about "ALL" despite the fact you have been told a million times you are wrong with such a blanket statement. You cling to that belief. You really should find out your whys and get a little introspective. Your life might just get better (and no I don't believe you that you are happy, far too many of your posts have said otherwise. I do wonder though if just aren't willing to look at your own character flaws)

[road]

What would be the point in her lying at this time? If she wasn't willing to own this I don't believe she would have worked so hard at getting her relationship back. If she really didn't want this she had the easiest out, they were split up, she chose to come back and agreed to his terms. I understand the thought that cheaters are always going to be lying but I don't always agree with it. I think people can change and more importantly learn from their choices. With reconciliation we(BS) have to decide at some point to believe them again otherwise R can't work. I like the trust but verify until comfortable but in this case her willingness to work consistently to earn back his trust speaks volumes in my mind.

 

 

 

What is the point?

 

 

In general:

 

 

Many WW's stay married to their BH after the affair. While always doing damage control trying to take most of the affair information to their grave.

 

 

BH's have to be vigilant that they are not being trickled truthed.

[Selfish]

What is the point?

 

 

In general:

 

 

Many WW's stay married to their BH after the affair. While always doing damage control trying to take most of the affair information to their grave.

 

 

BH's have to be vigilant that they are not being trickled truthed.

 

She did not remain married to him...

 

and DK, How do you know Road has been in your shoes? I don't ever remember reading he has.

[drifter777]

You do know what it means to be bigoted right? You are simply and plainly WRONG (see how I empathized that just like you did all). I did not lie/ minimize the sex in my case. In fact my spouse had to stop me from doing a play by play. Don't think you know it all about every single little person who has ever and will ever cheat, every single thing about every single man who has or will ever be cheated on, and every single thing about each situation. Because you don't know. Know one knows everything. Just because you want to believe so badly that every single WS minimizes/lies about the sex does not make it true. Why is it so important for you to think your are always right? To think you know everything? What issues in yourself could you work on that would make you a better person who accepts that they simply cannot know everything about everything? And that one size does not fit all. No matter how much you want them to? And why is it important to you that this is true? Because to believe something like that about "ALL" despite the fact you have been told a million times you are wrong with such a blanket statement. You cling to that belief. You really should find out your whys and get a little introspective. Your life might just get better (and no I don't believe you that you are happy, far too many of your posts have said otherwise. I do wonder though if just aren't willing to look at your own character flaws)

Wow - you really seem to have a desperate need to psychoanalyze me. I don't know why but - whatever.

 

So, here's the simple fact: I stated what I believe. You have your belief's and opinions and you are entitled to them. Now leave me alone.

[badkarma2013]

you do know what it means to be bigoted right? You are simply and plainly wrong (see how i empathized that just like you did all). I did not lie/ minimize the sex in my case. In fact my spouse had to stop me from doing a play by play. Don't think you know it all about every single little person who has ever and will ever cheat, every single thing about every single man who has or will ever be cheated on, and every single thing about each situation. Because you don't know. Know one knows everything. Just because you want to believe so badly that every single ws minimizes/lies about the sex does not make it true. Why is it so important for you to think your are always right? To think you know everything? What issues in yourself could you work on that would make you a better person who accepts that they simply cannot know everything about everything? And that one size does not fit all. No matter how much you want them to? And why is it important to you that this is true? Because to believe something like that about "all" despite the fact you have been told a million times you are wrong with such a blanket statement. You cling to that belief. You really should find out your whys and get a little introspective. Your life might just get better (and no i don't believe you that you are happy, far too many of your posts have said otherwise. I do wonder though if just aren't willing to look at your own character flaws)

*****************************************************************

 

again......naivety abounds...

[Bittersweetie]

I can't know whether she is lying but I believe ALL (yes, all) WW's minimize/lie about the sex - that they will take the whole truth to their grave.

 

I'm not going to judge or psychoanalyze or whatever...but I will say this:

 

I did not lie or minimize about the sex with my H.

[badkarma2013]

I'm not going to judge or psychoanalyze or whatever...but I will say this:

 

I did not lie or minimize about the sex with my H.

 

*******************************************************************

 

If i may ask...did he request all the details??...or did you offer??

If I may be so forward how did he react? Had he suspected?

 

If this is too painful etc...pls feel free NOT to answer...i understand.

 

MOST WWs LIE ,DECEIVE AND MINIMIZE THE TRUTH...YOU MAY NOT HAVE BUT A VAST MAJORITY DO....I stand corrected in some of my thoughts....

Edited December 9, 2014 by badkarma2013

[autumnnight]

that's how these people live.

 

Nice comment and to be expected

 

I can understand the need you have to understand because why do something so huge for basically nothing. I think only an individual betrayed spouse can know when they have all the things settled that are possible to be settled. I think as long as you don't see your wife in terms of the quote above then you two wil continue to progress and she will be willing to keep answering as long as you keep needing to know.

[road]

I believe you when you say it doesn't matter if they had sex 2 or 200 times. And that because of this there is no reason for her to lie about it. I can't know whether she is lying but I believe ALL (yes, all) WW's minimize/lie about the sex - that they will take the whole truth to their grave. No matter what you say or how you act she will always believe she is "sparing" you from more pain by withholding sexual information. But there is simply nothing you can do about it so I guess it doesn't matter anyway. All BH's need to accept this or they will drive themselves and their WW crazy. I just wanted to state my firm belief on this issue.

 

 

 

It does matter.

 

 

BH's differ in how much they can accept what their WW did with the OM.

 

 

Some can accept nothing.

 

 

Some can accept what ever happened because no matter what happened the BH will say well it could of been worst. Oral, ok could of been worse, Sex, could if been worse, knocked up by the OM it could of been worse twins.

 

 

As to withholding details and the WW can not be forced to reveal them. As stubborn as the WW will be on this it will never remove the BH's need to know the full truth. Thirty years later BH's will still need their questions answered.

 

 

Lack of honesty by the WW will keep a wall between them and their BH's for the rest of their marriages/lives. This insanity will be there forever because the WW refuses to be truthful so the BH can leave the affair in the past.

[road]

She did not remain married to him...

 

and DK, How do you know Road has been in your shoes? I don't ever remember reading he has.

 

 

 

I guess you missed the line: In general...................

[drifter777]

It does matter.

 

BH's differ in how much they can accept what their WW did with the OM.

 

 

Some can accept nothing.

 

 

Some can accept what ever happened because no matter what happened the BH will say well it could of been worst. Oral, ok could of been worse, Sex, could if been worse, knocked up by the OM it could of been worse twins.

 

 

As to withholding details and the WW can not be forced to reveal them. As stubborn as the WW will be on this it will never remove the BH's need to know the full truth. Thirty years later BH's will still need their questions answered.

 

 

Lack of honesty by the WW will keep a wall between them and their BH's for the rest of their marriages/lives. This insanity will be there forever because the WW refuses to be truthful so the BH can leave the affair in the past.

Here's what I mean. No matter how much BH knows it will never be enough so at some point he has to stop pursuing the answers - but most never will. I totally agree that lots of BH's are driven to get the whole story out of their WW's because they believe it will help them recover but I don't think it actually will. Its part of their pursuit of WHY she did it - something that doesn't matter because the answer will never make sense. I believe these men are fooling themselves and using this pursuit of the full truth about the sex to distract themselves from facing the fact that they will never get past this. Continuing to pursue something you can never find feels like you are at least trying to recover.

[lovinDKT3]

There is only one person I have to convince that I've been honest and from what he says he believe me and trust that I've been honest.

 

Besides that isn't his issue, the sexual side of my affair has never been his problem. He is secure and confident in his sexual ability as well he should be.

 

DKT has a hard time understanding why I choose to get involved with a man I saw no future with. Its really a valid concern. Best I can say is it was an irrational decision made by a selfish and desperate woman. In part resentment, in part never thinking he would find out but mostly because at the time it was something I felt I deserved, and something I mistakingly thought he would accept. Not that I thought he would be "OK" with it, but I never for a second thought he would divorce me. But he got so cold, so mean. Over the years I had watched as he turned his back on people he felt wronged him and totally shut them out. I never thought in a million years I would join that list.

 

I'm a flawed woman, I made bad decisions. Lucky for me I was given a second chance and I will spend the rest of my life thanking him and proving that his decision isn't a bad decision or mistake.

 

DKT ISYTL

Edited December 9, 2014 by lovinDKT3

[Bittersweetie]

If i may ask...did he request all the details??...or did you offer??

If I may be so forward how did he react? Had he suspected?

 

I answered all his questions. His reaction? He was, understandably, hurt, angry, disgusted with me. He had no idea.

 

I do agree with Road in that dishonesty does build a wall between a WS and BS (regardless of gender). I've seen many BS here state that it was the lies more so than anything that led to the relationship ending.

 

Circling back to DKT and Lovin, ultimately how they react and handle those events in the past is up to them.

[road]

Here's what I mean. No matter how much BH knows it will never be enough so at some point he has to stop pursuing the answers - but most never will.

 

 

 

Yes there will be enough when the BH gets as much of the whole story from his WW that he wants. The problem is when the WW is allowed to censor what the BH gets to know.

 

 

I will say this once the BH has all of his questions answered then it is time to stop talking about the affair with the WW.