It's a long story...

[GraceLess]

All right, so here it is….

 

I’ve been lurking here for the last 3 months, I’d like to take a moment to thank everyone who has shared their stories and opinions here, I’ve been conflicted over my own and it’s been really good to get some perspective and check my compass. With that in mind, I’d like to share my story if only to get it off my chest. Input is welcome of course.

 

Where we’re at now – Dated for 2 years in high school, married at 18, have been married for 16 years, separated at the end of July. I had been strongly considering divorce since September (2013 – wasn’t in a rush, am Type A so needed to feel I made the right and logical decision) and had consulted a lawyer but was trying to hang on until our son (mid teens) finished the school year or things turned around. I wasn’t angry, just so DONE with being unhappy and pushing though that because, well, we agreed that unless there was abuse, we would not consider divorce. Over the winter DH became concerned about my behavior and the time I was spending with my best friend who was in the process of separating from his wife (I was as transparent as possible about that with DH as I helped him and his mother with some of the coordination) and decided to review my phone. He finds complaints about him and emotional support to this friend on there and that’s pretty much it. With that, he decides that I have had a PA and confronts me about it. Well it’s not a PA.

 

And I am pissed. And we have the conversation that I was trying to wait to have – I’m desperately unhappy, I don’t love you, I cannot go on like this and everything is out in the open. I accept what he did and why and we agree to work on the relationship, I agree to more transparency on where I am and what I am doing so this won’t be an issue in the future, and we move on, or at least I think we do. There’s lots of discussion about trust and privacy and there’s makeup sex, but… the next month I find out that he has hacked my accounts and has decided he would like to play a game with me (“oh what did you get a package today, what was that?” – well since you’re reviewing my email and amazon accounts, shockingly enough, you already know) and that is just IT. I feel like I’ve been fooled twice. Shame on me. I didn’t make any immediate decisions, I took a month to think over whether I could get past it, patch it up and keep going, but I just can’t.

 

I asked for a divorce in April, there was screaming and crying (because this was some sort of surprise???) and finally I was offered a separation that never materialized, just turned into trying to show me that I was loved (that was the issue years ago, I’m past that now) with a lot of “togetherness”. Our teenage son had some serious behavioral issues that needed to be sorted out in May, so I let this sit to focus on addressing that issue. By July I am desperate and full of stress - not sleeping, tics, crying jags and so forth. I waited until our son was out of town on a trip and had the sit down with DH that I still want a divorce; I am leaving and going to stay with my parents. Two days later, he offers a controlled separation, we work out duration (3 months) financial details and that we will date each other but not others (not the point of this for me) and we tell our son. I stayed with my parents for a couple weeks until I could find an apartment, furnish it, and move in. I took very little from the house so that daily life would be less disturbed for our son.

 

DH is not a bad person. I don’t hate him or anything, I’ve just lost all trust I had in him, think we married too young, and believe that a lot of the issues that I have been putting up with are too much for me to handle. I fully admit that I am not a saint in the relationship, I’ve gained weight, I can be and have been a first rate bi1ch, and I am absolutely a Type A which a lot of people find annoying and my primary coping method is to just do whatever he wants to make things easy. Overall I feel like I have done everything possible to support him and make his life comfortable and have gotten nothing for my effort but a second child to raise. We’re in MC, and DH requested that we extend the separation to 6 months because it “took him so long to get started making changes and for us to get into counseling” and I just feel like it’s an utter waste of time because not only are we not addressing issues in the relationship (trust, hoarding, anger, massive debt from a period of his “self-employment”, basic disagreements on sex, disagreements on how to raise our son), but how is this supposed to make me *feel* something more for him?? The whole process has started to feel like some sort of war of attrition where I feel that I am obligated to do whatever he requests because we have been married so long and have a child and maybe there will be a miracle. And if there’s not a miracle, and if I’m really lucky, maybe we can be civil about the whole thing.

[LukeRBetts]

well i feel for you..... cant even say that my situation was the same as your. But either way it rough emtionally ....and that in turn makes it hard physically.

 

It seems your ready to let go......... are u really ready or telling yourself that?

 

If u are just telling yourself that then get yourself some help...counselling...for both u and DH. And make a decision .....to work on it or let it go.

 

If your ready to move on.....focus on you.....and you alone.... and thats the hardest part.... in all this your so used to making sure your partner is happy and that you forget about you.......forget him and just worry about u....

 

Sorry its not that great of advice...but i guess you need to choose the path you want to tread

[GirlStillStrong]

I found it strange your best friend is a man but isn't your husband. I doubt that's ever advisable for successful relationships.

 

Your husband sounds like the typical man who ignores your wants and needs for 20 years and lets you just continue to have to put up with him because you married him, and then wants you to give even more when you get fed up and have run out of patience or desire to continue. Not sure why you are entertaining his wants and needs now, as it's just a continuation of the last 20 years. Quit dragging it out. Cut the cord so he can have a good cry and everyone can get on with their lives. Funny though, we were just talking about this very topic (men waiting until you actually leave to make any changes) on another thread.

[GraceLess]

The whole making changes only after divorce is on the table is one of those things that just irritates me beyond reason.... I'm not playing some game where I make a threat and you're supposed to try to appease me by fixing things. I asked for what I wanted. I haven't denied him the chance to change, issues have never been a state secret... on the short list, I hate having to constantly fight hoarding (a losing battle btw), stand between H and our son because one of them can't be an adult in the relationship, and the constant caretaking like I'm raising another child (and what I am teaching our son to expect a marriage to be)..... Well, there have been at least 12 years with consistent, highly identifiable issues that he could have addressed at any time. I am tired of feeling that because I wasn't all wishy washy, ok this is your 35th and final opportunity to fix things, that I didn't give him enough of a chance.

 

I guess it's not that I'm not determined or decided or anything, it's just that with this dragging out, I'm starting to lose touch with the anger that kept me so focused and with distance and without a single focal crisis for the end of this, but rather so many intolerable everyday things, I'm having to refresh myself on why I have made this decision, dig my toes in and wait it out.

 

So apologies for the word vomit that may happen, but it is really helpful to say this kind of stuff to more than two people whose opinions I already know.

[GirlStillStrong]

It's how men are. You have to keep remembering this if your own happiness is ever going to be your priority. They hear you, they just don't want to do anything about it because they are lazy and can't be bothered with whatever you are nagging about. They will not take you seriously until you leave. Of course it's too little too late. I had a BF once who I told over and over I had difficulty with how he did certain things, over a year and a half to two years. I tried every way I knew to explain to him why I needed things this way, how much the relationship meant to me, etc but he never made effort to discuss things or change them. So I left. So what did he do? He asked me to marry him as if MARRYING him was some big enticement or prize. Can you believe the nerve?

[Mr. Lucky]

Over the winter DH became concerned about my behavior and the time I was spending with my best friend who was in the process of separating from his wife (I was as transparent as possible about that with DH as I helped him and his mother with some of the coordination) and decided to review my phone. He finds complaints about him and emotional support to this friend on there and that’s pretty much it. With that, he decides that I have had a PA and confronts me about it. Well it’s not a PA.

What reaction do you think your H should've had upon discovered discussion about your marriage with your male best friend ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Justanaverageguy]

It's how men are. You have to keep remembering this if your own happiness is ever going to be your priority. They hear you, they just don't want to do anything about it because they are lazy and can't be bothered with whatever you are nagging about. They will not take you seriously until you leave. Of course it's too little too late. I had a BF once who I told over and over I had difficulty with how he did certain things, over a year and a half to two years. I tried every way I knew to explain to him why I needed things this way, how much the relationship meant to me, etc but he never made effort to discuss things or change them. So I left. So what did he do? He asked me to marry him as if MARRYING him was some big enticement or prize. Can you believe the nerve?

 

Wow if you could only read this post from a mans perspective. Such sweeping generalizations about how lazy all men are and how they ignore all women's needs. It's easy to blame the man for all problems in your relationship and blame them for your unhappiness but unfortunately it takes two to tango and happiness comes from you .... not your partner.

 

My opinion is most of these relationship issues are caused by changes in what people want out of a relationship as they get older - particularly with women - and an inability to properly explain this and communicate it to her husband. Women when younger are natural care givers ... they really are its in their nature. But as women age their hormone make up changes and they move away from this tendency to be more concerned with their own needs less wanting to care for look after others and more focusing on themselves. Thats fine - but it causes all sorts of problems because it requires couples to completely redefine their roles in the relationship. Women almost just expect it to happen. If I nag and complain then the man should just understand and know what I want .... but the man has no idea what the hell is going on or why the women suddenly changed what she wanted from him and the relationship.

 

When younger when a couple first gets together - women often take on certain roles voluntarily. Because they actually want to. Generally, but not always, things like cooking and cleaning (traditional womens work) I'm not saying if thats right or wrong but normally thats what happens. Men don't force them to do this - they just do. They take on the role willingly because they want to contribute to the relationship and they think it shows they are a good wife. Over time however this dynamic changes - women's wants and needs change especially after they have kids etc they no longer want to or are willing to do the same things they did at the start of the relationship. By then the behavior has become almost pattern and expected in the relationship. Women grow to resent their husbands for expecting them to do the things they themselves initially volunteered to do. They don't communicate their changing needs or desires very well .... normally just through nagging or outburst of anger at their husbands. Men normally don't really understand what the hell the issues is when the woman they have been married to for 10 years suddenly starts giving him hell about doing the things she always did. He doesn't really get it or understand the root of the problem.

 

It's a tricky process to keep 2 people's who's needs and desires are constantly changing both happy in a relationship. Also its quite difficult to change a person's behavior in a relationship once it has become an established pattern or routine over a long period of time - 18 years. I'm not dismissing the original posters issues. I believe them to be real but I just think women find it easy to lay all the blame at the door of their husband for not meeting their needs instead of realizing they also contributed to the problem and maybe didn't do the best job themselves of trying to fix it.

[GraceLess]

Lucky, that's actually a really good question, I hadn't given it extensive thought. I definitely understand being hurt and offended (it's of course never our intention to cause hurt to people we care about) by the knowledge that issues in our marriage were public (outside the two of us). I don't have a real objection to how he handled that situation, it was unpleasant, but not unreasonable. I can't say I would have handled it better if the positions was reversed, I own my failings in the relationship, but there's something uncomfortable about other people knowing them.

 

What I do object to is the extended period of game playing that then followed. It's not even the hacking of my accounts that utterly did it in, it's the conversations about trust and privacy and rebuilding and fixing our relationship that we had while that was going on. The 'see how much smarter than you I am' game that I was just too stupid to pick up on at the time but makes me cringe in hindsight.

[Mr. Lucky]

Lucky, that's actually a really good question, I hadn't given it extensive thought. I definitely understand being hurt and offended (it's of course never our intention to cause hurt to people we care about) by the knowledge that issues in our marriage were public (outside the two of us). I don't have a real objection to how he handled that situation, it was unpleasant, but not unreasonable. I can't say I would have handled it better if the positions was reversed, I own my failings in the relationship, but there's something uncomfortable about other people knowing them.

 

What I do object to is the extended period of game playing that then followed. It's not even the hacking of my accounts that utterly did it in, it's the conversations about trust and privacy and rebuilding and fixing our relationship that we had while that was going on. The 'see how much smarter than you I am' game that I was just too stupid to pick up on at the time but makes me cringe in hindsight.

 

I can't help but think that your ongoing response to him is framed in a defensive context. Were he to have posted here the details you described - close male friend, inappropriate details, constant contact, secrecy, etc. - many of the responses here would have directed him to expose and discover, exactly what he did.

 

You seem very vested is labeling his conduct as invasive and sneaky. Had I been in his position (and I was ) I'd be hacking your accounts also. Just my two cents...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GirlStillStrong]

I can't help but think that your ongoing response to him is framed in a defensive context. Were he to have posted here the details you described - close male friend, inappropriate details, constant contact, secrecy, etc. - many of the responses here would have directed him to expose and discover, exactly what he did.

 

You seem very vested is labeling his conduct as invasive and sneaky. Had I been in his position (and I was ) I'd be hacking your accounts also. Just my two cents...

 

Mr. Lucky

There are always three sides to a story. The way I see it, the way you see it, and the way it actually is. If you have to hack someone's account to try to figure out what is going on with them, there is obviously a major breakdown in the relationship and hacking is only going to make it worse. My take? No relationship is worth living like this where you are paranoid and sneaking around in someone else's business. If you have to do this, it is time to move on.

[GraceLess]

I get your position Mr. Lucky, and I’m sorry you’ve had personal experience with it. I’ve seen the recommendations on LS, I’ve seen people do it IRL, and if that’s where you’re at in a relationship, that’s where you’re at. I’m not really in agreement with the whole hacking thing, but I have no better concrete solution, so I’m not weighing in there.

 

If I’ve been unclear, it was the game that hurt my pride. The hacking is just irritating.

 

I think what it comes down to is that I made a decision and should just have pulled up my big girl panties and executed that decision rather than vacillating and waiting for the right time. I always thought saying that there is no right time was a cop out, but if there is one, I haven’t found it.

[Mr. Lucky]

My take? No relationship is worth living like this where you are paranoid and sneaking around in someone else's business. If you have to do this, it is time to move on.

Solid in theory, somewhat more difficult in practice. If you've got kids, house, extended family and a life together, you don't just "move on". And since even the best marriages can get off track, you're trying to make informed decisions and implement damage control at the same juncture, no easy prospect. Oh, and you're terrified at the same time.

 

OP, I'm just saying your husband may have been in a difficult place with the resulting angst coloring his mindset and attitude going forward. Fear makes us do strange - and ill-considered - things...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GraceLess]

Fear makes us do strange - and ill-considered - things...

 

Mr. Lucky, that's something I think all of us can agree on. I appreciate the perspective.