About Cheaters

[SycamoreCircle]

Maybe this will come off as an obvious realization to most people, but I'll claim it anyway.

 

I was thinking that cheaters can never experience the same deep level of love for another person, the same purity of intention and vulnerability as non-cheaters because they know very intimately deception, distrust and manipulation. They are destined to suspect in other people the very thing they perpetrate.

Of course, in more extreme cases they project that on the person they're betraying. But in the future, there must be a tarnish to all of their relationships. That is what they forfeit when they wrong someone.

[Arieswoman]

SycamoreCircle,

I think you have summed it up very succinctly.

 

Although I dislike putting labels on people, as I believe it gives a reason for just plain bad behaviour, I believe most cheaters exhibit narcissistic behaviour.

This includes in the syndrome a lack of empathy for others.

[No Limit]

Of course cheating taints all future relationships as well. It also taints the person itself.

Integrity isn't just a fancy badge after all.

[SycamoreCircle]

SycamoreCircle,

I think you have summed it up very succinctly.

 

Although I dislike putting labels on people, as I believe it gives a reason for just plain bad behaviour, I believe most cheaters exhibit narcissistic behaviour.

This includes in the syndrome a lack of empathy for others.

 

Yes, I agree. When I first started to acquaint myself with NPD, I couldn't help but wonder "what are the odds that of all the people I could have met and fallen for, the one I chose had NPD?"

 

Now I realize PD's are not necessarily like a disease, they're a batch of symptoms or behaviors that constitute something like an illness. And unfortunately, people who indulge in cheating easily inherit these symptoms.

[dichotomy]

They are destined to suspect in other people the very thing they perpetrate.

 

Disagree, my wife knew very clearly when she married me and for a while afterward dDay she did not have to worry about be cheating she new I was a saint in this way.... which is why she lied and hid her being a mistress for several years.

 

That changed later because 1) I wanted her to worry a little and 2) I am no longer a saint.

[SycamoreCircle]

I'm not sure I completely understand your meaning. Can you clarify the above?

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

For the record, I've never cheated on someone, but I don't agree. I'm sure that once you've cheated you naturally become more paranoid in the future, but to say you can never love honestly again? All future relationships are tainted? Come on. There are many ways to betray someone that don't involve having sex with another person. Are all people who ever at any point lie to their partners lost forever, too?

 

I do think that people who cheat repeatedly without remorse have narcissistic tendencies, and in that case they aren't really worried about losing the ability to love since they're most focused on loving themselves. In that case there's not much you can do.

 

People on this site have a weird way of viewing things as binaries, like "OLDers" and "cheaters", as if they're two very distinct kinds of people. We the non-cheaters may not have given in to or even experienced that kind of temptation, but we're not necessarily that different. I have seen plenty of posts from loyal partners who are horribly manipulative and deceitful.

 

It's possible to cheat, have remorse, and sincerely move on with a pure heart. Hell, it's possible to murder someone and move on with a pure heart. There is an entire religion about a guy who convinced people that forgiveness and change is real. I don't believe in God but from what I can tell it's pretty popular.

 

I'm reminded of a teacher's test-taking advice: if it's a true or false question, and it uses the words "always" or "never", it's almost certainly false.

[SycamoreCircle]

You make some very good points. Can we at least agree on this: a person who abuses an honest, loving relationship with deceit and manipulation must somehow own up to their wrongs if they ever intend on reaching a similar level of honesty and vulnerability?

 

That ownership can take on many shapes.

[Danda]

I think different situations are, well different, and usually pretty complicated, but that the bottom line boils down to integrity.

 

People can't help it if they fall out of love or attraction, nor can they help it if they fall in love or become very attracted to someone else.

 

Then they must weigh their options, and in my personal opinion, whatever they choose will not be 'wrong'. For example, leaving Person A in order to be with Person B is not wrong. Or, realizing that you're not ready or the type for a committed relationship and that you'd rather have numerous flings (for now or ever) and/or just uncommitted, is not wrong, either.

 

I mean yeah, people will usually get hurt, regardless. If you genuinely lose interest in your partner and realize it most blatantly when you develop interest in someone else, that doesn't make you a bad person, but your current partner is still likely to feel hurt from it.

 

Being hurt in love is almost inevitable, and I think sane people go into love/dating/sex/etc understanding the risk and price, but considering it worth it.

 

With that all said, integrity is the bottom line to me. A person's morality, ethics, integrity, etc will determine whether or not they cheat.

 

If they don't value their own integrity, who they are as a person, then there is no deterrent for them in deceiving, using, disrespecting, etc other people.

 

In my second relationship, there were times when I felt I loathed my boyfriend. I was so hurt and angry with him it was ridiculous. My respect for him was also very low. I felt my emotions and perception were justified, as well.

 

The reason I never cheated had nothing to do with caring about him or respecting him at the time, to be frankly honest. I didn't cheat because I value my integrity. I take who I am as a person seriously and will not compromise who I am, for or in spite of anyone else.

 

It wasn't that I thought, "I respect him too much to cheat on him." I didn't feel much respect for him at all, at times. Instead it was, "I refuse to be that type of person."

[Justm3x]

I was cheated on and when he made contact a few weeks ago after 4 months of NC... he stated he was suffering from Addictive personality disorder, cheats, gambles and lies, he said he had read a book Chimp paradox to try and understand his destructive/disruptive behaviour that destroys people lives....... then less than 24 hours later he destroyed me all over again.... without a though of what he had just done to me. I would say he was a sociopath and I believe anyone with these disorders have no feelings or love for anyone and they will do the same to anyone they have a relationship with, they will end up very lonely people.

[Shepp]

I think different situations are, well different, and usually pretty complicated, but that the bottom line boils down to integrity.

It wasn't that I thought, "I respect him too much to cheat on him." I didn't feel much respect for him at all, at times. Instead it was, "I refuse to be that type of person."

 

 

This!

 

 

All the pathetic "my wife does xyz", "my husband never said xyz" is complete bull! Its all about you, its all about what kind of person you are and its all about what choice you choose to make! End of story.

 

 

What would these people tell the 8 year old boy who punched another lad in the face cause he was winding him up? Would they tell him that you can understand and he the poor kid clearly had no choice but to throw a punch... or would they spout the same 'that doesn't mean you should hit him.. now your in trouble.. think before you do' that every teacher does? Cause then their hypocrites as well as cheaters! Its the same thing!

 

 

We are 100% completely in control of the decisions we make and the people we choose to be. If you cheat then you are 100% choosing to be a cheater.. simple.

We all make decisions and choices that aren't perfect by a moral standard, and maybe I've thrown the first punch too many times over the years, and maybe I've broken In where I shouldn't, and god knows what else. But I still like the guy in the mirror, and I still consider him a man with his integrity intact!

To cheat is to throw away your integrity and that's not something i'm prepared to do to the man in the mirror - let alone the people I love and the rest of the world

[Under The Radar]

For the record, I've never cheated on someone, but I don't agree. I'm sure that once you've cheated you naturally become more paranoid in the future, but to say you can never love honestly again? All future relationships are tainted? Come on. There are many ways to betray someone that don't involve having sex with another person. Are all people who ever at any point lie to their partners lost forever, too?

 

I do think that people who cheat repeatedly without remorse have narcissistic tendencies, and in that case they aren't really worried about losing the ability to love since they're most focused on loving themselves. In that case there's not much you can do.

 

People on this site have a weird way of viewing things as binaries, like "OLDers" and "cheaters", as if they're two very distinct kinds of people. We the non-cheaters may not have given in to or even experienced that kind of temptation, but we're not necessarily that different. I have seen plenty of posts from loyal partners who are horribly manipulative and deceitful.

 

It's possible to cheat, have remorse, and sincerely move on with a pure heart. Hell, it's possible to murder someone and move on with a pure heart. There is an entire religion about a guy who convinced people that forgiveness and change is real. I don't believe in God but from what I can tell it's pretty popular.

 

I'm reminded of a teacher's test-taking advice: if it's a true or false question, and it uses the words "always" or "never", it's almost certainly false.

 

 

What a great post ...... one of the best I've ever read on LS.

[Gloria25]

I hate to disappoint here, but you may never see that cheater "get theirs" on this earth...

 

Ever hear the saying 'A sucker is born every minute/day or whatever'?

 

Well, these cheaters, being the manipulators they are; and, cuz their narcissism takes away their ability to feel any pain, empathy, sympathy for the havoc they cause - they eventually move on and nab another sucker.

 

See, bad people win cuz they don't play by the rules and/or believe in rules. You can't make them hurt, feel sorry, etc.

 

But, I believe in God. One day they will be held accountable by a Higher Power.

[Thegreatestthing]

N/a n/a n/a

[SycamoreCircle]

It's possible to cheat, have remorse, and sincerely move on with a pure heart.

 

As much as I respect your post, rereading it reveals to me the one condition it hinges on: "have remorse."

 

To move on with a pure heart, a cheater MUST have remorse. True remorse. Now we just have to figure out what constitutes true remorse.

 

I don't think it is accurate to say, "It's possible to cheat and sincerely move on with a pure heart."

[Thegreatestthing]

Look I've cheated many times and never cared about it,I've been "cheated" on and honestly didn't care in the slightest there was no agony about it at all.

Love is not destroyed by being divided,there is only more love,people are not fcking possessions you don't own them or their emotions.

[Gloria25]

As much as I respect your post, rereading it reveals to me the one condition it hinges on: "have remorse."

 

To move on with a pure heart, a cheater MUST have remorse. True remorse. Now we just have to figure out what constitutes true remorse.

 

I don't think it is accurate to say, "It's possible to cheat and sincerely move on with a pure heart."

 

I'm not condoning cheating, but there are different kinds of cheating situations. You have people who honestly make a one time mistake; there's people who are being abused and/or trapped in a bad marriage; and, then you have the serial cheaters - the narcissists who could care less about anyone but themselves.

[SycamoreCircle]

Look I've cheated many times and never cared about it,I've been "cheated" on and honestly didn't care in the slightest there was no agony about it at all.

Love is not destroyed by being divided,there is only more love,people are not fcking possessions you don't own them or their emotions.

 

Reread what you wrote. It comes off as angry. At least that's what I discern. Why? Why the indignant stance? We're usually indignant about things we feel aren't being respected. So, am I desecrating Love or Infidelity?

 

"Divided" does not summarily describe being betrayed.

[Thegreatestthing]

People are just so incredibly greedy they honestly believe their partner should be incapable of loving anyone else,that's how crazy greedy they are.

[SycamoreCircle]

I believe that there is a level of exchange that can exist between two people, which usually is in tandem with a great sense of emotional maturity and awareness, where both are served in a mutually beneficial way.

 

You say that you've cheated and been cheated on and that people are greedy. Your point of view may perfectly illustrate my point of view.

[littleblackheart]

People are just so incredibly greedy they honestly believe their partner should be incapable of loving anyone else,that's how crazy greedy they are.

 

 

Assuming this isn't made in jest - when people take the risk of entering a relationship, most EXPECT that their partners may develop feelings for someone else, which is why a promise of fidelity is made. Keeping true to your word is what matters then.

 

 

Being in a monogamous relationship isn't compulsory however - just choose someone who feels the same way as you do, then no-one gets hurt.

Edited December 8, 2014 by littleblackheart

[Gloria25]

People are just so incredibly greedy they honestly believe their partner should be incapable of loving anyone else,that's how crazy greedy they are.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I used to grow up thinking that everyone cheats, not to trust anyone and I still have trust issues. Maybe cuz that's all I saw growing up.

 

But, like my favorite podcaster pointed out - which is, while we've seen bad things growing up, we've also seen healthy things on TV and/or in real life. I've seen men and women turn down opportunities to cheat. I've seen people value what they have.

 

I think Paul Newman once said 'Why go out for hamburger if I have steak at home?' when questioned about his fidelity to his wife. So, the key, IMO, is to search for someone mature, secure with themselves, etc. When we date, we observe people, we learn about them...if they have the potential to cheat, it will show...You just gotta trust yourself to see the red flags when they come and not dismiss them.

 

I have a gf who says "all men are dogs". But both her first and second husbands abused alcohol, sat back while she earned the money, etc. And, her gfs do the same. One gf, her husband cheated and got into fights with her. Instead of her dumping him and moving on, she had a baby with him. The other one, she buys him toys, tries to get assigned to the same department he works in so she can "keep an eye" on him, etc. But "Hello", she married him after they fought several times cuz he repeatedly cheated on her. Did she think a ring was gonna stop him now?

 

Point is ^^ each of these women had blatant red flags, but they kept on plowing through w/o just moving on...but to them "all men are dogs". Ok, rrrrright.

 

Yes, there's a lot of frogs out there - but hopefully you'll eventually kiss one who turns out to be a prince.

[Frank2thepoint]

People are just so incredibly greedy they honestly believe their partner should be incapable of loving anyone else,that's how crazy greedy they are.

 

That's the whole point of a relationship, to make a choice to be with one person and remain faithful, instead of indulging their errant desires. But if a person can't control their desire, or can't keep their word to be faithful to another, they shouldn't be getting into any kind of relationship at all. Society looks down and shames cheaters because they broke their promise. But society doesn't care about the single people that go on f*ck fests, because they never made a promise. Cheating is about control and the ability to deny choice. Without choice, the cheated person is forced into a situation he/she doesn't want to be in.

[NJ123]

I'll just say cheating is a purely evil act, especially if you're married with kids. And than they give lie after lie after lie like a sociopath after their SO starts to catch on that something is going on. I agree that those type of people usually will never have a healthy relationship with anyone. Probably only a small percentage of cheaters ever redeem themselves.

[dichotomy]

I'm not sure I completely understand your meaning. Can you clarify the above?

 

 

Not sure what you need clarification on ?

 

I understood you to say in your main post that cheaters will suspect others will cheat on them.... No so with my wife, she had complete faith in me. She knows cheating and cheaters and womanizers very well....and knew she had found a good man.

 

But later - after learning of her pre and post me cheating and lies... and dealing our marriage and intimacy problems... the battle has worn be down. I am no longer affair proof - more affair resistant - or perhaps (sigh) even affair susceptible.