Any other "too insecure for their own good" folks out there?

[notmakingsense]

Hi all --

 

My situation: I'm in an up-and-down relationship for a little over a year with a woman whom I've completely fallen for, and whom I find just unbelievably attractive. The issue with this relationship is that we don't get to see each-other very much -- maybe 2 or 3 times a month -- primarily because she is taking things super slow after a long marriage. She has kids that she wants to shelter for a while longer from the concept of "a new man" in her life.

 

The combination of my being crazy about her, her being unbelievably attractive (to me anyway), and our not having much time together causes me to get into some major bouts with insecurity and jealousy. I know from her own accounts, and even by noticing when we go out, that she gets hit-on by guys day-in-and-day-out. Worse, she's in a profession that puts her in contact with very wealthy individuals -- some of them very successful, powerful, and single men -- and her EXH was filthy rich.

 

So... during the times of not seeing her, my mind tends to constantly bring up scenarios of her meeting other, hotter/richer guys.... then I go negative on myself.... In spite of things being really great when we are together, words of love, etc., I always manage to convince myself that, at any moment, I'm history.. Then I get all nervous, insecure, and consumed to the point where I can't concentrate on work/kids, etc.

 

I know this is unhealthy, and when I get like this, I'm actually doing this relationship a disservice. Are there others out there that have dealt with this? What did you do? I almost posted this in the long-distance section -- because there are many parallels due to the fact we don't see each-other very much.

 

Thanks for reading.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

If she says she loves you, she probably does. I would not worry about it too much.

 

One thing I might worry about is if the divorce was not final. They often go back. Not always, but often.

 

One sign that she is really super into you, and that she has decided for sure that she wants you to be a regular fixture in her life, is when you get to meet and/or spend time with her kids. That will be huge. Once that happens, you're in. Until it does, she is still thinking.

 

Good luck, and don't push. For now, just really enjoy the time you spend with her - and while it is ok to express that you like kids, and that you are looking forward to meeting hers (but don't talk about that constantly), don't push to meet/spend time with the kids, either. That will be something that she will do, and which will be a huge sign to you of just how into you and comfortable with you she really is, when it happens. But it kind of has to be her idea.

[invincible summer]

"The combination of my being crazy about her, her being unbelievably attractive (to me anyway), and our not having much time together causes me to get into some major bouts with insecurity and jealousy. I know from her own accounts, and even by noticing when we go out, that she gets hit-on by guys day-in-and-day-out "

I can relate...a lot

[Merin]

Wait.. you've been with this woman for almost a year? Did I read that right? ::Merin checks::

 

No, it's been a little over a year..

 

While You haven't said how long it's been since her divorce but I will assume that she met you AFTER her divorce? She has little people.. and while as a single Mom I can understand and appreciate ANY single parent being careful as to who they introduce thier little folk to.. you've been with this woman for over a year, Again I'll assume this is an exclusive relationship and she still doesn't feel comfortable with you meeting her kids?

 

IMO this isn't okay.. I could understand this a hella lot more IF the 2 of you had just met, or IF this was a casual relationship.. but from what you've said that isn't the case here.

 

A relationship needs to be about BOTH people getting what they need/want out of the relationship.. it seems to me she is the only person here getting her needs met and again.. over a year with this woman and she STILL isn't down for you meeting the kids or spending more time with you... uh.. yeah.

 

If this were me here I would sit her down and tell her how you feel.. that you're crazy about her and want to be in her life but all relationships need to progress and you've shown her that you're there for her, you've got her back like that and you want/need more in the relationship.

[invincible summer]

I still have these problems and I'm married to him and see him all the time. I can sympathize but probably can't help since I'm in the same boat. Check this out:

I was looking for a document I saved and couldn't find it found a folder titled letters It contained several lengthy emails between him and an old friend from highschool. The content was also standard (about literature,God, religion, and marraige(mostly hers))but I didn't like the fact that they were so lengthy plus I don't like the fact that they actually know eachother.The most romantic thing was this "Have you ever played in the warm summer rain?" It was weird? I told him I didn't like this and how would he or her feel if me and her husband were corresponding like this? He said now the only mail he gets from her is sent to all her friends as well. Then-

 

__________________

found a gals name on my H's contact list and looked at a conversation they had, it was pretty normal chit chat but he ended it with "groovy...see ya baby" when I saw that my heart took a pounding. This girls name has been on list for at least 1 1/2 years. When I confronted him I first asked if he thought flirting on msn was ok for us and he said no then when i showed him what upset me he told me I was being ridiculus because she is just a teenager and has a boyfriend...and he was just talking like Austin Powers. Question : Am I being nuts over nothing or is he wrong?

 

I guess for me I could never say baby to anyone but him -even in jest.

__________________

[notmakingsense]

WithOrWIthoutYou/Merin -- Thanks for your replies.

 

Yes -- meeting her kids is a major sign of more permanency.

 

I met my GF about a year after her separation, which makes it now 2 years since she separated. I have met her kids, on a very casual basis. They know that she and I are very good friends, she has gifts (including jewelry) that she wears -- and they know who its from, etc. What is missing is more of a "he's over to dinner regularly / we are taking vacations together" kind of mixture. She feels that they aren't ready emotionally to put another man in that kind of a role yet. Her separation with her EXH was very emotionally draining on everyone.

 

Invincible -- I haven't seen/heard any true hard evidence that she's flirting or seeing anyone else..... it is just the knowledge that she's so attractive and that she gets hit on that drives me crazy. I should add that, although I make a good income, I'm no match for the clientele that she interacts with every day -- and as a result, I feel lots of pressure and feel like I need to somehow keep up with all of that.

 

If I make the assumption that infrequency of our time together is Ok, what I need help with now is techniques to deal with that and how to deal with my feelings of insecurity. Maybe one day she will meet someone else, but I just want to do better at being happy in the "now" -- by doing that, I'll probably be more attractive to her anyway.

 

What are some good books/materials/sites to go to regarding insecurity?

[Merin]

Well just a cent more from Me..

 

IMO it isn't her Kids who aren't ready to accept that Mom has someone new in her life, it is Mom who isn't ready to accept and be okay with what an Exclusive relationship requires or implies.

 

Not to discredit her (your GF) here.. but when people get divorced it's messy and it's emotional and for real.. she isn't the exception to the rule and her situation isn't "special" so to speak. I think it's lame to continue to use this as a tool or excuse to not give you what you need as well in this relationship and honestly if this were me would find it unacceptable.

[notmakingsense]

Merin -- you are absolutely right on target with your thoughts -- but I'm not quite ready to call it unacceptable just yet. Some more information.... it isn't just her messy divorce -- we have talked about all the other facets to this before... she actually says to me that although she sees herself getting married again, she isn't ready for that yet, she wants to go through a process that her friends and her therapist say are necessary -- which is to be fully on her own and happy with that before she goes into another marriage. Until then, she doesn't want to involve the kids in a way that implies anything more than friendship until she is sure she is ready for marriage. And.... she says that with as close as her and I are... the next step is marriage.

 

As I type this, it does sound a little odd, but I want to balance this discussion by telling you that we are like two peas in a pod when we are together -- very close and intimate -- and we often talk about our future together, and she many times tells me that she thinks "I'm the one."

 

It sounds like you saying that I should be feeling insecure, that this doesn't sound right to you? If that's the case, the real next step for me is to call it off -- because we've already had the discussion about spending more time. She plead her case about needing to keep things more relaxed for now -- and I bought into the program -- and I'm looking for ways to deal with it.

[nicki]

i've been in this EXACT situation. i know exactly how you feel. i was also one year into it and he didn't want me to spend time with his kids just "quite yet..."

 

so, she isn't divorced yet...is that right? i need more info..

[notmakingsense]

Nicki -- she is legally separated now for two years. Because of all the money involved, they are still in the middle of some nasty disputes. They tried mediation on and off now for 15 months -- but are now at a standstill. She thinks that they will actually need to go to court now.

 

Also... just to repeat. I have met her kids (9 and 12) -- but in a very casual kind of way. I've been over to her 3 or 4 times -- to help her with "guy stuff" at her house, and we've also met eachother at a local club, and they see that she accepts gifts from me. I have 2 kids also -- right around the same ages as hers. She has met them on several occasions, and my kids consider her a girlfriend of mine (which is no big deal for them now -- I've been divorced almost 5 years).

[nicki]

yes, same situation as mine, exactly: we both have kids, all met a few times, not divorced yet either.

 

i can tell you that it has been a problem in my relationship. i've pushed for more time together and he's asked me to be patient. his ex has gotten upset the few times i've been around his kids. i say tough sh*t, tell her to get used to it....it's been a year and a half since their separation...

 

it's a tricky situation. on one hand, you want the relationship to progress and integrate your lives in a natural way. the only way to do that is to move forward with more "all of you" time.

 

on the other hand, you don't want to push someone to do something before they are ready and stress out your relationship.

 

i have thought a lot of about this. what i did was tell my boyfriend how i felt: either he gets divorced ASAP, or we spend time with the kids and he tells his ex to deal with it.

 

he has told me that he wants to marry me, but i won't believe it until i see our relationship progress. i've actually been thinking about seeing someone else...

 

so, ask yourself what you want for the both of you. tell your girlfriend what that is. listen to her response. negotiate.

 

bottom line: she sounds like she likes you very much, but you sound insecure because the relationship doesn't appear to be progressing...that's a good reason to feel the way you do...you are ready to move on with your future....

[nicki]

oh, i should qualify a bit. i didn't give him an ultimatum. he said he thought his ex would calm down after they were officially divorced (doubtful in my mind.)

 

i listened to him, and then told him what i wanted to happen.

 

i think you've been very patient. a year long relationship is a not a casual thing, and i think you just want confirmation that you are both moving forward together....

[notmakingsense]

Thanks Nicki -- our situations are very similar -- and yes, you are right -- I just want validation that things are moving forward, and my insecurities are around them not seeming to be moving fast enough.

 

In our case, this is all coming from her, not her ex -- and it is far less clear about the timing involved -- because it is tied to her going through "some process" prior to fully committing to me further.

 

I go back and forth between feeling too accomodating and wanting to remain patient because I am so in love. This is very hard on me emotionally, because I am quite convinced that things will end if I push any further. I just can't decide if thats the right path (for me)!

[nicki]

yes, that's the exact balancing point that i'm trying to find.

 

what does your girlfriend mean by "process?" after a year, i'd think she'd be committed to you. does she talk about a future with you?

 

i wonder how much it would speed things up if she thought she might lose you?

 

if you could wake up tomorrow and have things the way you wanted them, what would that look like to you?

[notmakingsense]

Nicki -- thanks for being so responsive on this thread!

 

Ah, "the process".... It has been a huge emotional roller-coaster for her and her adjustment to her new life. Things are calming down quite a bit, but she still goes to therapy, takes some medications, and is learning how to cope as a single mom -- doing everything for herself. She feels that it is important for her to feel like she is a fully happy single individual before committing fully to another, including the more complete merge of lives with another family.

 

We do talk about our future -- to the point where many of our discussions assume marriage. She'll always slip statements like "when we are married, etc., etc., etc." She wants to finalize the divorce, and she also wants to remain single while the alimony is coming in -- mostly because my cash-flow isn't yet enough to support us in a merged-family scenario. (I'm still financially obligated to my Ex, and we live in a *very expensive* part of the country).

 

I've thought about the tactic of pulling back myself...... but that's where my insecurities hurt me significantly. I get into this "out of sight, out of mind" mode of thinking. She's much more able than I to lead her busy life and seems happier than I with keeping things relaxed. Most of the time, I really don't think she's interested in others -- and she's even told me that she isn't point blank (because she realizes where my mind wanders). However, I just worry. I mean, the option would be so easy for her to take.

 

In a perfect world, she'd see me more, call me more, and act a bit more dependant on me. (Did I just say that? Hmmmm..... that doesn't sound healthy, but that's how I feel). I'd be a bit more intertwined into her everyday life -- making it obvious that I'm in her plans.

 

Until that happens, I'll always be thinking about the "what ifs". So..... that leads me to my other desire: To really feel happy, comfortable, and confident without her -- so this doesn't consume me. If I felt more like "if it is meant to be, it will be, and if not -- life moves on" -- I feel that it would come across to her, and she'd try a bit harder. So.... how do I do that?

[nicki]

You are very perceptive in knowing what you want. It seems reasonable and normal to me. (That's what I want to with my boyfriend. He is like your girlfriend, and I'm in the same spot you are in.)

 

I can understand that your girlfriend wants to stand on her own two feet before completely merging both of your lives. Doing that will make her a much more independent and healthy partner.

 

The part that bothers me is the fact that she IS in a relationship with you. She didn't wait until she was divorced and on her own two feet to start up with you. She has some responsibility here. It's not fair to hook you in, then stall because she wants to be independent first. She kind of lost that right when she entered into a relationship with you. That's not what you signed up for.

 

You know, it's helped me A LOT to pull back and concentrate on myself! Building your own life is the only thing you CAN do until your lives are more intertwined. If she doesn't show enough interest to stay involved, make plans, call you, etc., then you have to wonder why you are putting more effort into this deal.

 

It must be equal to work. If you are most afraid of what will happen if you stop rowing the boat, then stop rowing the boat. See if she will do her half. You are worth that, aren't you? You don't want a relationship based on fear of what could happen.

 

Ask yourself if this is enough for you. In my situation, the answer is yes, if I close my heart a bit and wait and see. I refuse long-term to give more than I'm getting back. I will only act totally committed to someone if that's what I get back. Period.

 

I really do understand though, how hard this all is for you.

[notmakingsense]

Nicki -- thanks again for your response.

 

You are right, she isn't taking much responsibility for this situation. I'm partly to blame here, as she has told me on several occasions that she just isn't ready to commit fully, yet I still allowed myself to get deeply attached. I just don't get how I'm supposed to keep my feelings in check when things just feel so right when I'm with her.

 

You are also right that I need to somehow find a way to just focus on my own life and pull back from this. Are you like me in that this surfaces insecurities, as in, "will they think I'm no longer interested?" As a guy, I'm a little bit of a different boat in that often we are supposed to be the pursuers. I guess that after a year, I should still expect her to pursue a bit too, huh?

 

Anyway, I appreciate your feedback, and I'm interested to hear how your pulling-back strategy is working.

[Mz. Pixie]

This is just wrong IMO.

 

As far as the divorce and financial arrangements-it sounds like she really wants to keep the alimony rather than you! Why not just live together???

 

My BF was in this situation. Dated a girl, lots of implications that she wanted to marry him. Never would file for divorce, told her friends that her ex was "still the one" so my bf eventually got tired of it. She wanted to be "free" to explore other options. I'm not saying this is what's going on here but just giving you another side of the story.

 

In my own personal situation, I met my bf two weeks after my physical separation (emotional had been 3 years). The divorce process has been tough and agonizing for me- virtually everyone that was in my life for 15 years turned their backs on me. I had to start completely over in a apartment with hardly nothing. My EXH was tying it all up in court. I finally just settled- for a bit less than I deserved but because I want to go on with my life.

 

Sometimes it's just not worth fighting over. If they have kids she could always take him back to court later.

 

I'm ready to move on and be with my bf-we are going to get married- whatever that takes. Sure, it was bad timing when we met, but we are so in love I couldn't care less about that. As long as my kids are taken care of, I don't care what I get personally.

 

I think it's the priority that you place in that relationship, but that's just me.

[notmakingsense]

Thanks for your input Mz. Pixie -- reading all of this is just pissing me off -- it just seems that I'm not much of a priority for her. I try to convince myself that the situation warrants more patience, then I just get frustrated during the times that I cannot see her. The cycle starts all over again when I see her -- because I just melt. I feel so spineless right now, and I don't know what to do about it.

[Mz. Pixie]

Listen, this is what I say to some of my single gf's. It's so true really if you think about it.

 

"You are the Prize"

 

If you treat this lady right and all of that then you're a great catch. You want someone who wants to be with you and make you a priority in their life.

 

This is one of the main reasons I got divorced. My husband wanted different things out of a marriage. I wanted a partner in all aspects of life, he wanted a maid, financial advisor, nanny, housekeeper who would be waiting with their legs spread when he decided to "drop by" in between things he had to do. Uh, uh.

 

It's not wrong for you to want something different than she does. You cannot force her to see your side or to love you like you love her but you can control how you react to her.

 

Tell her you need some time to reevaluate because it seems that you two want different things out of life. You want to move forward and she seems to want to dog paddle right now where she is. Tell her it's not working for you. You'll get the answer you desire if it doesn't really affect her. If she's not devastated then she's not that into you.

[notmakingsense]

Tell her you need some time to reevaluate because it seems that you two want different things out of life. You want to move forward and she seems to want to dog paddle right now where she is. Tell her it's not working for you. You'll get the answer you desire if it doesn't really affect her. If she's not devastated then she's not that into you.

 

Mz Pixie -- Thanks for jumping in on both threads.... I really appreciate that!

 

That really is the next step for me -- to tell her it isn't working for me. That's going to take some major new strength on my part, probably because my gut is telling me that it isn't going to devastate her. I have to move past my stupid desire to keep stringing things along in hopes that she changes gears. Painful.

[Mz. Pixie]

It's very painful.

 

When I first started dating my bf he had been through alot on a personal level. His xwife had cheated for 18 months and left him for the guy- and she was pregnant with this guys child before their divorce was final. Then, the next serious gf he had was a using piece of crap. He was scared because I had been married for so long he would be the rebound guy.

 

He was very gun shy and I had to work extra hard to convince him of my true feelings. It was worth it because I'm so in love with him.

 

Sometimes we stick our heads in the sand because we don't want to know- and it's just easier to ignore the issue and keep things the way they are- because we are getting a bit of what we want.

 

Remember Pretty Woman- Richard Gere offered her the chance to be his mistress and he would take care of her? What did she say? "I want the fairytale"

 

I think I'm worth that, don't you?

[notmakingsense]

Remember Pretty Woman- Richard Gere offered her the chance to be his mistress and he would take care of her? What did she say? "I want the fairytale"

 

I think I'm worth that, don't you?

 

Yes, I do. Thanks Mz. Pixie. You are helping energize me to get this done.

[Mz. Pixie]

Okay, we all know there is no fairy tale but you know where I'm going with that.

 

As for energizing you, you're quite welcome.

 

Often the road less taken is the hardest one. I certainly have found that out going through my divorce. I have lost everyone that has been in my life for 15 years- even my best friend turned her back on me. She knew about all the problems and said, leave him, leave him but when I left him in reality it was just too hard for her to handle.

 

I moved out into an apartment with little furniture and belongings. My two kids share a room. I worked all my life for a beautiful home, the whole picture that everyone tells you you should have. But I didn't have a husband who valued me and wanted to spend time with me, so what did the rest of it matter?

 

I'm sure alot of people don't understand why I left- I mean, my husband wasn't a drug addict, and he didn't beat me- he kept a job and all of that. He just was never at home, physically or emotionally. I decided I deserved better than that and went about changing my life.

 

You will never know unless you step out there! Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[nicki]

Pulling back is something that you do for you, not her. You must do it out of love for yourself and have no attachment to the outcome. She may come after you, or she may not, but you do it for YOU. Clearly, the situation as it is right now isn't working for you.

 

I also escaped a bad marriage. After 14 years of emotional abuse and neglect, I got out and vowed to only be with someone who loved me and made me a priority...easier said than done!

 

At first my boyfriend was wonderful, attentive, etc....But then he started acting like your girlfriend and saying many of the same things. It made every insecurity i ever had come out...and I knew that i had to do something...

 

You can start by telling her that you understand how she feels about standing on her own two feet, etc, before committing fully to you. Then you can tell her how you feel and that you think you have overcommitted too early because you love her very much....tell her that you are also going to focus more on your own life right now. Tell her that she is right. You can't change her mind with love, I've tried that, too!

 

I understand why you are mad. I felt like I was giving WAY too much. I thought the relationship would fall apart if I didn't continue to do that...and guess what? I was so scared of that happening that I continued to give more than I got back...good for him, bad for me...but in the end, I had to face the fear. Anger is a good signal that something is wrong. You can use its energy to help you take action.

 

I think you have to get to the point where you don't worry about what SHE will do. Ask yourself: "What do I need to do in this situation to take care of myself?" Then find the courage to do it.

 

For me, it helped to break the pattern. Take a week and don't talk to her too much. Be kind and loving when you do talk to her, but don't discuss your relationship. Remember you are doing this for your own clarity, not to hurt her. It's better to do this after you talk to her about how you feel about things so she can connect the dots in her own mind.

 

If she asks why you are acting differently, gently remind her that you are just focusing on your situation right now and that you love her....but keep doing the work to pull yourself back. Later, you can throw yourself back in bit by bit as the power equalizes in your relationship.

 

Wow, this is tough. You will feel every fear and insecurity 1000 X more than usual. It's okay. Just ride it out. You will make it to the other side. Whatever is waiting there for you will be okay. You have to trust yourself to handle it.