Any other "too insecure for their own good" folks out there?

[notmakingsense]

Mz Pixie -- thanks once again. I think you made the right choices about getting out of your situation and began to change your life. That is very inspirational to me (and I'm sure others)...

 

Nicki -- your advice is great! It is helping me put together in my mind what I want to tell her. However I do have some questions for you.... you emphasise how I need to do this for me, and the fact that I need to focus more on my own life. In many ways that is true -- I'm attaching too much self-worth on the success of this situation, so maybe it is me who needs to learn how to better stand on my own two feet.

 

That said, one of the biggest reasons for me pulling back is that the inbalance is hurting me, and how what is important for me is to be in a relationship with someone where the balance is equal. Do you think I should emphasize this latter notion? I mean, I wish I could come up with a better way to tell her what I want from her -- but maybe that isn't the way to go -- you referred to letting her connect the dots on her own -- she probably has all the information she needs to do so, but I also feel like I should be strong -- not beat around the bush -- and tell her point blank that her treatment of me in this situation sucks.

[nicki]

Yes, that's what i mean. Tell her everything that you feel, want. Explain the balance thing to her.

 

Then she can connect the dots between your talk and your subsequent action of pulling your energy back a bit. That way she'll understand why.

 

Always be honest and let her know where you are coming from, what you want, and what you need to do. This will greatly empower you to take the necessary action the moment calls for.

 

You will see that you'll feel stronger just by talking to her. You'll feel the shift of taking responsibility for your own actions to get what you want/need. You will feel a whole lot more relaxed about everything.

[Mz. Pixie]

Yes, that is what you must do. That will give you some power back and make you feel better.

 

I'd let her know this is just not working for me. It is SOOOOO important to be with someone who is on the same page as you are. I would outline everything for her- that you've been patient but that you need to move forward and perhaps she's not ready for that? But that you are? I would tell her that you love her and want to be with her but that you want a real relationship and all that it includes. Tell her you want that person to be her but that things have to change on her end. Tell her that you'll be giving her some time to think about that and that she can contact you when she's made a decision.

 

Then do it! What Nikki said is great, when you talk to her keep it light and don't mention it. Back off a little.

 

What I'm afraid of is that she thinks you're too good of a catch to let go. She doesn't want to commit to you but doesn't really want to turn you loose either. My bf's ex gf was like that. Boy, she went nuts when he moved on but it was too late- she'd already lost a good thing.

 

Be strong- you are the prize you are the prize you are the prize

[notmakingsense]

Nicki and Mz Pixie -- you are soooo helpful! I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate your insights.

 

She called me at work today -- but I was on my way to a meeting and we couldn't talk. I quickly commented about the fact that she's gone no-contact with me, and "what's up?" In a humerous tone, she said "and that's unusual?" (We have talked about this lightly before -- she knows that I know that when she withdraws like that, it means that she's on the fence about us once again).

 

Anyway, I told her that I *really* want her to try to find some time to talk to me tonight. She said she doesn't know if she can -- I think she senses something is coming her way. It is just like her to avoid this.

 

I really don't want to do this via e-mail.

 

I'm almost there.... this is going to be hard.

[nicki]

Wow, i think she acted rather rude towards you. I'd like to push that woman off the fence!

 

Good luck tonight. I'd be cool towards her, given her attitude. Maybe don't even call her tonight?

 

She should want to hear your concerns, not blow you off. You know, my boyfriend acted like that, too, whenever i wanted to talk to him. He gets defensive, avoidant. It makes me uncomfortable to talk to him.

 

But, i have a guy friend i've known for a few years. He always wants to hear whenever something affects me...what a nice change...he'd be a great boyfriend....hmmm

 

Anyway, she should be supportive and ready to listen to you. I'd let her know that her actions are making you get up on the ol' decision fence, too!

 

As Ms. Pixie said so well, "YOU ARE THE PRIZE!"...and you are....let us know how it goes tonight. Play it cool, but say all you want. You have that right! After all, you ARE deciding if this is right for YOU, too...she doesn't hold all the cards....

[notmakingsense]

Well -- another night of not being able to talk to her.

 

She just isn't making the time. She sent me an IM about a house we saw on the market last weekend going on sale -- totally non-serious stuff. I responded with stupid stuff, then sent her an e-mail once again requesting time to talk.

 

Still -- nothing. She has a small house and kids all around -- so it isn't easy to make the time to talk to me -- but I still think she could have gotten more creative and thought of something -- like going outside and giving me a call.

 

No dice -- just another sign of where I rank in priority.

 

So -- what do I do now? Send an e-mail? Start no-contact? I expected this, but I'm so pissed off right now, that calling her again to press the matter doesn't seem palatable.

[Donut]

Wait for her to contact you.

 

It really sounds like she doesn't care too much for your feelings, she could have found time to talk to you last night. Don't make excuses for her.

[nicki]

Yeah, exactly. She could have made time to talk to you. She's giving you a bunch of crap. She could have called from outside, or in the bathroom. Or after the kids went to bed. I have kids, too, and can always find a few minutes of time here and there, especially for important things.

 

I wouldn't call her. Let her call you. Let her lead the conversation. Until you talk to her, really think about what you want.

 

You are right about her not making you a priority. I wouldn't make her one either then right now. Get busy today. Put your mind on other things. It won't do any good to press the issue until she feels the motivation to talk. (I know, not fair if you are feeling like this and need to talk ASAP.)

 

She may be scared. She may need time to gather her thoughts. It really doesn't matter too much. Take care of yourself.

 

I wouldn't even talk to her about the non-serious stuff at all until she talks about the real issues....just blow it off, act uninterested in small talk. Get off the phone if she calls and engages in any. Don't IM back about any stupid stuff, either.

 

Don't reward bad behavior. Wait a bit. I'm sure things will be clearer soon.

[Mz. Pixie]

Okay, let me just say that this is a bunch of bull with a capital B.

 

You're giving this woman wayyyyyy too many excuses for her behavior!

 

I work full time in a very stressful demanding position, I have two small children under ten- one is in dance the other in baseball right now. Before it was basketball. I live in a tiny two bedroom apartment.

 

I find PLENTY of time to talk to my bf, especially when it comes to serious issues.

There is time AFTER THEY GO TO BED if she's concerned about talking while they are around. I WANT to talk to him every night, especially before I go to bed.

 

She doesn't have to tell them who she is talking to anyway. This is ridiculous.

 

I wouldn't call her, period, until she contacted me.

 

Step back and look at this situation like you would if it was happening to a friend-how would you tell him to handle it??

[notmakingsense]

Mz Pixie, Nicki, Donut --

 

Thanks for your support. I'm totally getting it now -- her need to avoid is greater than her interest in what I have to say, or in this relationship in general.

 

I'm soo pissed -- I feel like writing her a long e-mail to tell her off -- but I think you are right -- she needs to be the one to initiate contact. This F-ing sucks -- and it makes me feel so unimportant to her...

 

I guess I'll give it a week -- if I don't hear from her, I'll send my note.... which will be sure to be a doozy.

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't know if it's a need to avoid- it may be that she just doesn't give a crap how you feel.

 

My mother used to avoid talking to me when she didn't want to hear what I had to say on a subject but, to me this is totally different.

 

Her being blatantly flippant about it "What's new about that?" makes me think she doesn't care how her behavior affects you.

[notmakingsense]

Maybe you are right -- she just doesn't give a crap. That thought hurts, because it runs so contrary to how she is/what she says when we are together.

 

However, we have discussed her huge tendancy to withdraw when she isn't feeling good about something. When she's upset about something she becomes completely unavailable, won't talk, etc. And this has happened before, many times. She admits this as a flaw... and we sometimes joke about it -- which my natural reaction was to lump her latest comment as trying to make light of a known problem.

 

The first time it happened was early on in our relationship -- when she felt she was committing too quickly (see a pattern here?) -- and her friends were telling her to date other people. I basically was never able to get her to talk to me -- until a few months later, after she was done with the dating experiment.

 

Since then it has happened numerous times. Sometimes it happens when she's feeling overwhelmed about her divorce and "new life" situation. Other times, it is becuase she's slipped back in to that -- "is he the right guy" thinking. At this point, I'm quite convinced it is the latter.

 

Whenever this happens, days or up to a week or two goes by. In the past, my insecurities would haunt me -- then I'd hound her to talk to me and eventually she'd respond. Then we'd set up a date -- and BAM! Things back into full swing -- with her talk of love, bond, marriage, soul-mates, etc.

 

She's a combination of a commitment phobic person (maybe just with me?) and a person that has an inability to communicate about deep/emotional subjects. She admits to these faults freely.

 

All of this has gotten better over the months -- what used to be week-long periods of withdrawal has reduced to days -- but now something has tripped her up again.

 

I'm very in love with her -- and I want to work with her through her issues -- but she has to commit to keeping me involved. I have a HUGE degree of patience and understanding -- unless you are simply cutting me out of the picture.

 

Are you sure I shouldn't try to contact her? The more I think about this, the more I just think she'll let it ride for a veeery long time -- heck, maybe this will turn into a break-up without a conversation?

[Merin]

My 2 Cents (again LOL sorry)

 

You're to afraid of what will happen IF you don't contact her.. that she will not care.

 

At this point it seems you feel okay with crumbs.. as long as you have those, you feel there is hope.

 

She isn't *starting* a new life.. she HASN'T been with her Husband in over 2 years.. what makes her divorce any harder, or more painful than anyone elses..

 

NMS.. Dude, Get a 6 course meal! Don't settle for the crumbs.. they will never fill you up or satisfy you.

[notmakingsense]

My 2 Cents (again LOL sorry)

 

Merin -- your cents are worth a million! I can count on you to keep me honest!

 

Crumbs vs. the meal -- that's a great analogy. That's what I'm going to be asking for -- the meal -- if she ever decides to call me.

 

Little victories -- I saw her pop on-line and I didn't IM her.... lets see how I do tonight after having a few beers with my buddies!

[Topaze]

Dump her and dump her fast. She ain't worth it.

 

Don't even explain. Just put her on no contact and right away. Don't return ANY calls, e-mails or IMs. Get out there and meet other women and fast. She the thread in the transitioning section for ideas.

[notmakingsense]

Topaze -- you don't agree with the others that I should take her call, as long as she's willing to have the hard discussion? I guess you must see this as a totally lost cause -- I'm not quite there yet -- I'd like to see how she treats me once she realizes I won't make compromises any longer.

[Merin]

Originally posted by notmakingsense

Merin -- your cents are worth a million! I can count on you to keep me honest!

 

Crumbs vs. the meal -- that's a great analogy. That's what I'm going to be asking for -- the meal -- if she ever decides to call me.

 

Little victories -- I saw her pop on-line and I didn't IM her.... lets see how I do tonight after having a few beers with my buddies!

 

Tell her a** that you want the damn Happy Meal WITH a pimp prize!

 

Hang in there NMS..

[Mz. Pixie]

NMS-

 

I feel like I keep talking and you're not listening............or you're listening but you don't want to HEAR me.

 

I AM where this woman is, except she's been sitting on the fence this whole time while I've been taking action. I may even be under more stress than she is because I don't have a super wealthy XH who is supporting me with alimony.

I barely get what the kids need paid for, even though he makes three times what I make.

 

I've been hurt terribly by everything that's happened. Some of the things I've been through since I filed for divorce would have broken someone less strong than me. Everyday I'm scared, I feel like running away- but do I??? NOOOOOOOO. Sometimes I have to fight that feeling every hour, but I do. I do it because it would be unfair to inflict this emotional baggage on my bf- because it has nothing to do with him.

 

My relationship with him scares the crap out of me. I was married for a LONG time, he wasn't. Our relationship is the most intense and intimate one I've ever had including my marriage and THAT scares the crap out of me. I have two kids and he has one- who have not met yet- that scares the crap out of me. Do I run away for days, or weeks?? No, and if I tried to he would find that totally unacceptable.

 

If you're content to make excuses for her and put up with her behavior then continue to let things go as they have been. She's in control and she's running the situation- and here you are- sitting there waiting on her to call or IM. I'm not trying to be harsh but that is the way I see it. I feel bad for you, I really do, because you want so badly to believe that it's not like we're calling it. But I'm afraid it is.

[notmakingsense]

I feel like I keep talking and you're not listening............or you're listening but you don't want to HEAR me.

 

No, Mz. Pixie -- I totally hear you. Yes -- I am still wrestling with the thought that this must end, and my posts and interactions here are really just helping me get through this process. And.... I completely understand that you are in a worse situation than my GF -- it must take a lot of strength to keep up as you have, and knowing this is helping me take my GF off of her pedestal.

 

To everyone -- yes, I AM scared that she (a) won't call, or (b) will call and will let all this fall through -- this is because I haven't yet fallen out of love with her, despite how angry I am right now about her treatment of me.

 

And, yes, I am "just sitting here and waiting" for her to call -- I'm busy at work, and have some time with my kids, but I don't have many friends that I can talk to about this this weekend, and my mind is definitely still consumed with this situation.

 

It is going to take me a long time to get past this -- especially when we haven't talked and it isn't officially over yet. Its kind of like being stuck in limbo.

 

However, I'm resolved not to call her, and I'm resolved to be strong about my position when/if we ever do talk -- and if she decides not to call me, well, I'll finish it with an e-mail in about a week.

 

Thanks everyone -- and please be patient with me. If it weren't for you guys, I would have already called her today.

[notmakingsense]

Well -- she's trying to give me crumbs.... just got a short e-mail from her wishing me a good night. I haven't replied. I'm doing good right? I really want to reply and ask her again for time to talk.....

[Donut]

She E-MAILED you good night? Wow, she can't pick up the goddamn phone?

[notmakingsense]

She E-MAILED you good night? Wow, she can't pick up the goddamn phone?

 

Exactly. She's hung up on the kids thing. At 15 months, it should be Ok for her to call a BF to say goodnight. Of course, she knows I'm about to unload a bunch of **** on her when she talks to me next -- so she's avoiding me now also...

[liswil]

I've been in your situation before and there are a few things I'd like to say on it. These are just my guesses---playing armchair psychologist here based on my experiences:

 

I think it's more about you than about how you feel about her. My guess is that you probably have a history of people like this in your life--even in your childhood. You're analyzing every little thing they do looking for clues as to how to get their approval, have them love you, be there for you, etc....

 

Look at the time you've spent diessecting every word and action that comes from her. That leaves little time for you. Who's taking care of you??? Also that often means that there are things you aren't wanting to deal with in your own life. This gives you that distraction.

 

I'm guessing if she suddenly wanted to be with you 24/7 you'd lose a lot of your interest.

 

You probably don't think very highly of yourself. With a person like this, you're out to prove that you DO mean something. You're really trying to prove that to yourself though.

 

If she wanted to be there all the time, called all the time, etc...you'd probably back off because if you don't think too highly of yourself, you'd question someone who does.

 

 

But hey, I could be wrong...................

[notmakingsense]

I think it's more about you than about how you feel about her. My guess is that you probably have a history of people like this in your life--even in your childhood. You're analyzing every little thing they do looking for clues as to how to get their approval, have them love you, be there for you, etc....

 

Look at the time you've spent diessecting every word and action that comes from her. That leaves little time for you. Who's taking care of you??? Also that often means that there are things you aren't wanting to deal with in your own life. This gives you that distraction.

 

I'm guessing if she suddenly wanted to be with you 24/7 you'd lose a lot of your interest.

 

You probably don't think very highly of yourself. With a person like this, you're out to prove that you DO mean something. You're really trying to prove that to yourself though.

 

If she wanted to be there all the time, called all the time, etc...you'd probably back off because if you don't think too highly of yourself, you'd question someone who does.

 

Liswil -- you are definitely correct about some aspects of this. I think I've admitted before (maybe in another thread) that I'm attaching too much self-worth to the success of this relationship -- which makes it also true that I'm looking too much outside myself for approval. This is true for other aspects of my life as well.

 

As to your guess about what would happen if she started to be with me 24/7, well, I guess I never really thought about that! I can say that I broke up with my last GF because *I* wasn't ready to progress to the next step, which was marriage and buying a house - even though I was already living with her. And, of course, there is my marriage -- which failed because we basically drove each-other crazy because of our differences of opinion on just about everything.

 

What makes your observation intriguing is that I can say that I have felt "most in love" with women who I couldn't quite get to accept me 100% -- but I just chalk that up to the human trait of just wanting most what you can't have.

 

This exercise is proving to be useful. Seeking approval would mean continuing to hound her for it. By pushing back, not responding, and asking for what I want (risking her approval in the process), I'm at least taking a baby step towards thinking of myself first for a change.

[liswil]

Originally posted by notmakingsense

What makes your observation intriguing is that I can say that I have felt "most in love" with women who I couldn't quite get to accept me 100% -- but I just chalk that up to the human trait of just wanting most what you can't have.

 

But eventually you have to "get" them, so that tactic doesn't really work. What happens when you finally get the person who was hard to get? Fun's over. I don't think that relationships that are based on that dynamic last very long.

 

This exercise is proving to be useful. Seeking approval would mean continuing to hound her for it. By pushing back, not responding, and asking for what I want (risking her approval in the process), I'm at least taking a baby step towards thinking of myself first for a change.

 

Exactly. This is really more about you than about this relationship. Once you figure out *you*, you won't keep repeating the same patterns.

 

Like I said, I've been there. I still place too much emphasis on others rather than on myself but I'm working on it. I had a very distant father. Apparently we try to repeat the pattern by picking the same type of people so that we can FINALLY win their approval. But, we'll never win that type of person's approval. Because getting through to them has to do with them---not us.

 

Stop analyzing HER walls and start working on your own. You're worth it.