Overheard conversation between xMM and a friend

[bathtub-row]

I accidentally stumbled onto a conversation between xMM and a friend of his the other day. Part of what I heard xMM say was, "All we ever do is fight." It was apparently a very personal conversation and I have no doubt he was talking about him and his wife. Now that their kids are gone, I guess they have to actually deal with one another. On the surface, you'd never know anything was wrong between them. They put up such a front.

 

The only other thing I overheard was, "I think I need to get a boat." So I suppose living on a boat away from her is the alternative to getting (God forbid) a divorce. It made me realize just how persistent he is in staying in such a bad relationship and how very little chance we ever had. I have no idea why people contine to torment themselves by staying in such bad relationships. Even what he and I had apparently isn't even any incentive to reaching for something better. Kind of heartbreaking when I think about it like that.

[prettyeyes87]

That's because he'd rather bitch and complain than change it. He sounds like he likes to complain but never has any solutions. Pissing and moaning is a lot easier than actually fixing the problem, I guess.

 

All I know is I am not spending the rest of my life with someone who makes me miserable.

[FusionCutter]

People learn to love their chains.

[bathtub-row]

That's because he'd rather bitch and complain than change it. He sounds like he likes to complain but never has any solutions. Pissing and moaning is a lot easier than actually fixing the problem, I guess.

 

All I know is I am not spending the rest of my life with someone who makes me miserable.

 

I hear ya. I couldn't do it, either.

 

The truth is, he rarely talks to anyone about his problems. The person he was speaking with is an old friend of his and I don't even think he knew the extent of the problem. They were in a conference room where I was logging in to a meeting. I'm sure they thought they were in a private setting and were surprised when I clicked in. The thing is, there's a delay from when I log in and turn the video on. I can hear conversation but they can't see me. I'm thinking that something must've happened prior to that that caused him to talk to his friend about it. His friend had a very serious look on his face. Maybe xMM and his wife argued at the office. I don't know. It's really sad that he stays in that situation.

[Quiet Storm]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

[Realist3]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

 

One of the best posts I have ever read on this board. Kudos!

[bathtub-row]

Quiet Storm - I totally agree with what you wrote. Instead of this conversation giving me hope, it made me realize just how entrenched he really is. I'm glad I'm out of it. If I weren't, this conversation would've had a very different effect on me. I have always believed that having an affair with him is possibly what kept him from leaving. He left her once but went back. I'm not sure his buy-in was as deep then as it is now but it makes no difference either way. Your post put into words what I've been trying to verbalize for a long time.

[Poppy47]

xMM had a shocking childhood. No family unit after he was 7. His mother moved every couple of months so no security.

His father sent him to boarding school later.

 

I can understand him clinging to his family unit, even though he admitted marrying somebody who was wrong for him.

 

Quiet Storm said it all.

Poppy.

[whichwayisup]

Quiet Storm - I totally agree with what you wrote. Instead of this conversation giving me hope, it made me realize just how entrenched he really is. I'm glad I'm out of it. If I weren't, this conversation would've had a very different effect on me. I have always believed that having an affair with him is possibly what kept him from leaving. He left her once but went back. I'm not sure his buy-in was as deep then as it is now but it makes no difference either way. Your post put into words what I've been trying to verbalize for a long time.

 

I'm glad to hear that you're not gonna use that bit of conversation you overheard to get your hopes up about him. Besides, venting to a trusted friend and opening up about issues about his marriage doesn't mean he's leaving or divorcing.

 

Quiet Storm, that was a great answer!

[bathtub-row]

I'm glad to hear that you're not gonna use that bit of conversation you overheard to get your hopes up about him. Besides, venting to a trusted friend and opening up about issues about his marriage doesn't mean he's leaving or divorcing.

 

Quiet Storm, that was a great answer!

 

No, it didn't give me any hope. Like I said, it just made me realize that he will never leave. It does resurrect some old feelings of sadness, though. Sadness for ever getting involved. I haven't felt that in a long time. I have been very disconnected for some time now. Even when he texts or talks to me, I've had the "It doesn't mean anything" mentality. When I can fully extract myself from this job, I'll be even better off.

[FusionCutter]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

 

You're easily one of the most intelligent and insightful posters here. It took me so long and a lot of pain to come to the same conclusions as you. Essentially whether the WS will admit it or not, the affair is like a "bandaid" for a bleeding marriage. So many OW/OM make the mistake that because of an affair it must mean the WS is leaving - no it doesn't. It means the WS can't face their problems within the marriage, they are usually conflict avoidant.

[bathtub-row]

You're easily one of the most intelligent and insightful posters here. It took me so long and a lot of pain to come to the same conclusions as you. Essentially whether the WS will admit it or not, the affair is like a "bandaid" for a bleeding marriage. So many OW/OM make the mistake that because of an affair it must mean the WS is leaving - no it doesn't. It means the WS can't face their problems within the marriage, they are usually conflict avoidant.

 

Sometimes they may be avoiding conflict, or it may be that they have done all the work and had all the discussions, and came to the conclusion that the relationship is unfixable. In the latter case, there's nothing more to talk about. Just stay and be miserable. That's pretty much what it boils down to when a person has the mind-set that Quiet Storm is referring to. Maybe it's only partial misery. Maybe when all is said and done, it's worth it. Then again, maybe they're both just hoping the other will drop dead someday soon.

 

I don't know. I get the commitment thing but I just couldn't do this. I couldn't live that way.

[prettyeyes87]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

 

Does this post apply specifically to marriages with long histories? Like 10, 20, 30 plus years? How does this apply to a very young marriage with the same issues and cheating going on? What is your take on really young marriages (less than 5 years) with all these problems? I really like your post and opinion.

[prettyeyes87]

Sometimes they may be avoiding conflict, or it may be that they have done all the work and had all the discussions, and came to the conclusion that the relationship is unfixable. In the latter case, there's nothing more to talk about. Just stay and be miserable. That's pretty much what it boils down to when a person has the mind-set that Quiet Storm is referring to. Maybe it's only partial misery. Maybe when all is said and done, it's worth it. Then again, maybe they're both just hoping the other will drop dead someday soon.

 

I don't know. I get the commitment thing but I just couldn't do this. I couldn't live that way.

 

Yes I 100% feel you on this. Kudos to the people that can, I guess. It seems more common for men stay and suffer. Women more than likely jump ship and run for the hills.

[jackslife]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

 

^^^^^^^ This, is a superb post.

[beach]

Sometimes they may be avoiding conflict, or it may be that they have done all the work and had all the discussions, and came to the conclusion that the relationship is unfixable. In the latter case, there's nothing more to talk about. Just stay and be miserable. That's pretty much what it boils down to when a person has the mind-set that Quiet Storm is referring to. Maybe it's only partial misery. Maybe when all is said and done, it's worth it. Then again, maybe they're both just hoping the other will drop dead someday soon.

 

I don't know. I get the commitment thing but I just couldn't do this. I couldn't live that way.

 

But realistically - what if he is the conflict?

[Daisy2013]

It's comfortable. People find comfort in familiarity.

 

A long term relationship has it's own dynamic that no one outside of the couple will ever understand. Even the couple's kids, marriage counselors, closest friends, etc. won't get it. It's a dance choreographed by the infusion of two individual personalities and their history together- their flaws, strengths, weaknesses, issues, love, hope, disappointments, experiences, etc.

 

This is why an AP should never see a dysfunctional or bad marriage as a sign that the "marriage is done". Many marriages that seem to be unhappy satisfy the needs of the couple, regardless. Many people also choose to stay married, in spite of being unhappy. So while a MM's unhappy marriage may mean that OW becomes MM's outlet for romance and affection (and that MM even genuinely loves OW romantically), it does not mean he will ever get divorced. This is the mistake many OW make- feeling confident in his feelings for her and expecting the existence of those feelings to prompt action. It rarely happens.

 

The affair is not usually the catalyst for change in the sense that it will make the WS decide to leave. Instead, an affair is often used to supplement the marriage- to meet unmet needs, to provide affection instead of arguments, to passive aggressively "get back" at the spouse, to escape. It is actually used by the WS as a tool to stay married in many cases. It can make an unhappy seem marriage bearable to many people.

 

Even though many WS constantly complain about their spouses, many do not wish to divorce and rarely even give it consideration. In their minds, they are married for life and this is nonnegotiable. The state of the marriage, the happiness factor, frequency of sex.... the marriage problems are viewed by WS as reason to have an affair, but not divorce.

 

Long marriage relationships include a very strong sense of family. And that sense of family and feelings of loyalty are very powerful. For example, if we had personality conflicts with our adult children, many of us would accept that the relationship with our child needs improvement, but we would not consider ending the relationship. Many of us also tolerate difficult relationships with a parent, eventually accepting their limitations, but not totally cutting them out of our lives. These same feelings of family loyalty often arise in unhappy marriages- they are not perfect, but they are mine- comes into play. Many people love their family unit- even when the kids are grown. It's their legacy. They do not want to give it up, so they accept it's shortcomings and work around it to get their needs met (have affairs).

 

I can't stop reading this post, and have to find a way to tuck it away someplace. This makes sense. Should be a sticky.