Update: On my own now; how we got here

[Sub]

The thing is, we may get two separate reasons as to why he didn't want kids earlier, pre-A. Unless I'm misinterpreting CD's account, CM prioritized his career at the time. Which could be true, and in many cases isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know plenty of people who wanted to get their careers to a certain place before trying to provide for children. CM may tell it differently(though I seriously doubt his subconscious came into play about her being a potential cheater), but whatever the case: they weren't on the same page about a huge part of their lives. I think CD maybe gave up too soon in regards to where she is/was at her age and starting a family. But they both should have seen the signs earlier and dealt with them openly.

 

Also, note: I should have said "I'm not defending CD's actions" in my previous post. Not CM.

[violet1]

I have to make myself happy or none of those things will be enough.

This is exactly what my therapist told me. He told me I wouldn't be happy in any relationship until I found peace and happiness within myself. It's still been a struggle for me, but I'm working on it.

 

 

I just want you to know that I truly admire you. You've shared very intimate pieces of your life on this forum. I think you've handled the many different responses well. I completely understand and support your reasonings for wanting a D. I think it's huge step to know that you will end up becoming a resentful wife if you stay with CM. Being on the same page especially with wanting children is very very important.

 

 

I wish you peace, love, and happiness.

[violet1]

It's not difficult to understand: part of the reason he might of never wanted kids with her is because maybe deep down he knew it was a huge mistake? I never said it was set in stone, and of course ideally one would be best to have those thoughts consciously and not subconsciously.

 

You said his subconscious would then be blamed for getting married, well sure, but then it'd also be blamed for giving him the massive super speed needed to dodge one hell of a bullet. Almost like the subconscious let him down, KNEW it, and stepped the F up to make it right.

 

Of course this is just one theory I tossed out, he might not of wanted kids merely because he didn't want kids, and it had nothing to do with how much he loved her or how much of the writing on the wall his subconscious mind picked up. It's possible he just genuinely believed he wasn't with a cheater, but still didn't want kids because not everyone wants kids.

It's irrelevant whether CM wants kids or not. CD wants a family and he was not able to provide her a timeline or reassurance that it's also something he wants. If two people aren't on the same page with something important like children then it's best to end it. A relationship can't survive on love alone. It's fine if people don't want children. A person who wants chidren shouldn't be in a partnership with someone who does or vice versa.

[Sub]

I think it's huge step to know that you will end up becoming a resentful wife if you stay with CM.

 

It seems that ship has sailed.

[compulsivedancer]

It seems that ship has sailed.

 

I'm not sure if you're saying it's too late, because the decision has already been made anyway?

 

Or if you're saying I'm already a resentful wife?

 

You're probably right on both accounts, either way.

[Sub]

I'm not sure if you're saying it's too late, because the decision has already been made anyway?

 

Or if you're saying I'm already a resentful wife?

 

You're probably right on both accounts, either way.

 

I'm not comfortable with calling you a "resentful wife". You may be in a different place now, and it seems a bit like name-calling. Apologies if it seemed that's what I was saying. But I do feel you resented your H at some point and it informed some of the decisions that led you here. I guess I'm wishing the awareness violet's referring to was there sooner.

[Zenstudent]

It's irrelevant whether CM wants kids or not. CD wants a family and he was not able to provide her a timeline or reassurance that it's also something he wants. If two people aren't on the same page with something important like children then it's best to end it. A relationship can't survive on love alone. It's fine if people don't want children. A person who wants chidren shouldn't be in a partnership with someone who does or vice versa.

Isn't it catch22? Staying with CM may provide some uncertainty regarding children, but how easy will it be to find another man to have kids with within a limited timeframe - with infidelity in the bagage?

[violet1]

Isn't it catch22? Staying with CM may provide some uncertainty regarding children, but how easy will it be to find another man to have kids with within a limited timeframe - with infidelity in the bagage?

I think you and I see things differently. I see their divorce as an opportunity for both of them to start over. Like Bad Karma says some damage can't be repaired. Plus, resentment is poison. It's not healthy for a person to continue a relationship when they know they will become resentful towards their spouse.

 

 

There are many people who have only cheated once and never done it again. As long as CD continues therapy and works on herself, she'll be just fine. There are a lot of couples who divorce over infidelity and both parties end up in new, happier relationships. My brother's ex wife cheated on him. He met her when he was 21 and she was 18. Her and the AP broke up shortly after the divorce. A year or two later she met someone new and remarried. Her and the 2nd husband have two children together. My brother is also remarried and they have a baby together as well. The divorce was very painful for my brother. It took him awhile to heal. Now he says it's the best thing that's ever happened to him. It's wonderful to see him so happy. He was never this happy when he and his exwife were together.

 

 

Maybe it's because I've been in the the shoes of both the betrayed and betrayer, but I don't see infidelity as something that destroys a person's life. It will only destroy a person if they allow it too.

[Zenstudent]

I think you and I see things differently. I see their divorce as an opportunity for both of them to start over. Like Bad Karma says some damage can't be repaired. Plus, resentment is poison. It's not healthy for a person to continue a relationship when they know they will become resentful towards their spouse.

 

There are many people who have only cheated once and never done it again. As long as CD continues therapy and works on herself, she'll be just fine. There are a lot of couples who divorce over infidelity and both parties end up in new, happier relationships. My brother's ex wife cheated on him. He met her when he was 21 and she was 18. Her and the AP broke up shortly after the divorce. A year or two later she met someone new and remarried. Her and the 2nd husband have two children together. My brother is also remarried and they have a baby together as well. The divorce was very painful for my brother. It took him awhile to heal. Now he says it's the best thing that's ever happened to him. It's wonderful to see him so happy. He was never this happy when he and his exwife were together.

 

Maybe it's because I've been in the the shoes of both the betrayed and betrayer, but I don't see infidelity as something that destroys a person's life. It will only destroy a person if they allow it too.

Don't get me wrong, I like CD, and maybe I just wasn't expressing myself very well. I don't think anything good will come from them staying together either. And yes, I also believe that they can be happy moving forward, both of them, on their own.

 

My point is, I wouldn't personally settle down with a woman, and have kids within the first couple of years, if I knew she had just recently cheated on her husband. Would you (reverse gender)? After all, having children is a huge commitment.

[harrybrown]

I think you and I see things differently. I see their divorce as an opportunity for both of them to start over. Like Bad Karma says some damage can't be repaired. Plus, resentment is poison. It's not healthy for a person to continue a relationship when they know they will become resentful towards their spouse.

 

 

There are many people who have only cheated once and never done it again. As long as CD continues therapy and works on herself, she'll be just fine. There are a lot of couples who divorce over infidelity and both parties end up in new, happier relationships. My brother's ex wife cheated on him. He met her when he was 21 and she was 18. Her and the AP broke up shortly after the divorce. A year or two later she met someone new and remarried. Her and the 2nd husband have two children together. My brother is also remarried and they have a baby together as well. The divorce was very painful for my brother. It took him awhile to heal. Now he says it's the best thing that's ever happened to him. It's wonderful to see him so happy. He was never this happy when he and his exwife were together.

 

 

Maybe it's because I've been in the the shoes of both the betrayed and betrayer, but I don't see infidelity as something that destroys a person's life. It will only destroy a person if they allow it too.

 

 

How do you not allow it?

[compulsivedancer]

How do you not allow it?

 

You move on. You take control of your life. You figure out what makes you happy, and change the behaviors that led to cheating.

 

If you are the BS...you heal. Pretty much the same way. Take control of your own life. Become your own person....Strong enough to stay, strong enough to leave.

[jnel921]

I didn't think it would work. If I was CM I would have never stayed. Your actions before and after the A were selfish. You always defended the OM and still wanted to reach out to him. You felt guilty so if CM told you to bark like a dog I am sure you would have and did until you realized you were barking up the wrong tree.

 

Some A's are too much to try and R for. I just pray you don't hurt anyone else. If you are bored and done with someone leave. Don't screw his friends. Not a good look.

[compulsivedancer]

If you are bored and done with someone leave. Don't screw his friends. Not a good look.

 

Because anything is ever that simple. But I'm glad you can boil it all down into a sentence.

[Selfish]

I didn't think it would work. If I was CM I would have never stayed. Your actions before and after the A were selfish. You always defended the OM and still wanted to reach out to him. You felt guilty so if CM told you to bark like a dog I am sure you would have and did until you realized you were barking up the wrong tree.

 

Some A's are too much to try and R for. I just pray you don't hurt anyone else. If you are bored and done with someone leave. Don't screw his friends. Not a good look.

 

Do you feel better about yourself now?

[merrmeade]

Going out on a limb here....but procreation between loving couples is primal, and if he does not want that, I support your choice to go.....

 

Nothing says end it MORE than one partner NOT wanting to procreate with the other.

 

But you need to find your voice; communicate your needs, and grow your self-esteem before another 8 years, 2 year affair and 2 year unsuccessful reconciliation goes by....

 

Because wherever you go, there you are....still.

 

And no man, no job, no child will help you to happiness. Only you can do that for you.

 

Good luck to you both.

Oh, yes, and a million times, yes, to this. And, Realist was right, too, but not for the reasons he put forth (marriage to the wrong person). But, yeah, give the affair a break, for pete's sake. She's self-reflecting now and figuring out who she is and what she wants. She's only 20-freaking something, right? The marriage is on hiatus and she's just beginning to work on herself as in what was that? who am I? what do I really need?

 

But about the children: Like some said, it's a good thing you didn't get pregnant (obviously). I desperately wanted children to fill the hole left by an unsatisfying marriage. They did. And now, I'm back to dealing with the hole. And more than one hole at that. Children don't fix anything. Just you. And, first, you have to fix you before you can fix a relationship.

 

I'm not expressing any regret whatsoever for having had those wonderful children. Not for one blessed second. But, in the same way that I believe you have to fix yourself before you can expect a fulfilling relationship, I think that BECAUSE your head is in the right place, you will do better in all your relationships, including your marriage. You can make it work if the other person feels the same way. It can be good, great even. Ergo, no such thing as "true love," one love, the one you were meant to be with, the one that got away and all that nonsense. You can have magic and depth with a clear-headed, hard-working partner, who - like you - wants to love as much as he wants to be loved and commits to doing that better with you. Attachment can be learned.

Edited December 12, 2014 by merrmeade

[Oberfeldwebel]

CD,

 

Actually, I think that you have made progress in the last two months and it appears that you and CM have been able to maintain a degree of friendship. It looks like you both have pretty much resolved any remaining issues and know where you both are headed. It will still be sad when you get to the legal conclusion, so be prepared.

 

For those that have not followed this relationship in full detail, it is a very interesting one that CD and CM have allowed us to see played out in this forum. This is extremely unique as we usually only get one side and so we tend to support that person. Also folks tend to take your explanation of the relationship, prior to the affair as justification. You have already agreed that the affair was not you best moment and did nothing to fix your marriage.

 

Personally, I think this point was bound to happen. As I told you back in October, you two tend to be your own worse enemies at times. The fact is I don't think he really was all that interested in children, his passion is music. This does not make him a bad person, it just is who he is and I think he really understood this about himself. I don't think it was a matter of him not wanting to have children with you, he didn't want to have children with anyone. He knew his main focus would all be his music.

 

You married young, so you saw a talented man that was passionate about something and you admired this trait. Also I get the impression from all of these threads that he is just a great guy to be around. However, for any relationship to be successful, the relationship has to be more important than our own desires. There were troubles in this relationship before the affair and since they are not able to be resolved, then I think this relationship has run its course. It is unfortunate, since I believe you both to be good people, flawed like the rest of us, but good people.

 

I know that you still want children, but they would have only exacerbated the problems that already existed. It is unfortunate that this relationship did not have a happy ending, but you both are still young and it has helped you realize what you both want in life and therefore not in vane. Few marriages get to end on a friendly basis. Time to consider closing this chapter and moving on to the next. It is a brave new world out there for both of you. Best wishes for both of you.

[jnel921]

Because anything is ever that simple. But I'm glad you can boil it all down into a sentence.

 

 

At this point I can sum it up since it took only one action from my WH to forever change our lives just like yourself.

 

In life we all have the ability to make choices. It's impotant to make the right ones. Especially if this choice will affect more than just yourself. Consider all of the consequences. If you can live with that then I guess you will be just fine.

[jnel921]

Do you feel better about yourself now?[/

 

I am being honest. Good for them that they split up. I can say this because I am older and have experience under my belt. 2 marriages in ... both good and bad. Have read her posts over the last few years. I think I know what I am talking about.

 

What happened in their situation was wrong. She claimed that she and her H were talking about maybe having a threesome with his best friend. While he never said yes or no to that she couldn't wait to let the OM know that it was a possibility and in their selfish horniness they decided to forget about the H and go it alone....

 

She was not 100 percent remorseful afterwards. To come back and write the long post justifying her actions after the fact is bull. If my H ever said something like that I'd pack his bags today.

 

SELFISH people don't get it.

[dichotomy]

Don't get me wrong, I like CD, and maybe I just wasn't expressing myself very well. I don't think anything good will come from them staying together either. And yes, I also believe that they can be happy moving forward, both of them, on their own.

 

My point is, I wouldn't personally settle down with a woman, and have kids within the first couple of years, if I knew she had just recently cheated on her husband. Would you (reverse gender)? After all, having children is a huge commitment.

 

A point worth thinking about.

 

I think it will present some challenges as she seeks new potential future husband/father materials. There was a lot here in addition to cheating - discussion of open marriage with his friend I believe started her down this road. I think it would be quite a story to unwind for a new potential "Mr. Right" to accept and digest. Also what she does now as a single person (dating habits) will also factor into finding this guy. Honesty is also important with anyone she meets (my current wife lied and hid her past in order to get me).

 

I think the key will be CD continuing IC, and time to work it all out for herself.

 

If she can get healthy, and right with herself...then Mr. Right can step in. I do think perhaps a few men might take a pass, and she will have to accept that as a consequence of all this. However I also think people can change and pull themselves up and put the past behind them - with a lot of work. Her future Mr. Right may have a few mistakes in his past as well, you get to a certain age and we all have those mistakes and baggage - as long as you face them and work them out internally before you meet the next person.

Edited December 12, 2014 by dichotomy

[road]

Do you feel better about yourself now?[/

 

 

What happened in their situation was wrong. She claimed that she and her H were talking about maybe having a threesome with his best friend. While he never said yes or no to that she couldn't wait to let the OM know that it was a possibility

 

SELFISH people don't get it.

 

A point worth thinking about.

 

I think it will present some challenges as she seeks new potential future husband/father materials. There was a lot here in addition to cheating - discussion of open marriage with his friend I believe started her down this road. I think it would be quite a story to unwind for a new potential "Mr. Right" to accept and digest.

I think the key will be CD continuing IC, and time to work it all out for herself.

 

I do think perhaps a few men might take a pass, and she will have to accept that as a consequence of all this. However I also think people can change and pull themselves up and put the past behind them - with a lot of work. Her future Mr. Right may have a few mistakes in his past as well, you get to a certain age and we all have those mistakes and baggage - as long as you face them and work them out internally before you meet the next person.

 

 

CD will be bringing more baggage then those freight tractors pulling 8 cars of luggage when they load up the planes at the airport.

 

 

Can she learn from this and grow? Her posts are showing no way at the moment. First step is to stop justifying her affair.

[road]

The first step to owning an affair is to stop saying:

 

 

I had an affair but

 

 

I had an affair because

 

 

Reasons for my affair were

 

 

I had an affair because my BH did

 

 

I had an affair because my BH did not

 

 

I had an affair because I was too young, too old, too whatever

[compulsivedancer]

Once again road, this thread was not about justifying the affair. There was more to our marriage than the affair, which did not exist in isolation. There's were problems before the affair, which did not go away even as we dealt with the affair.

 

I think this may be part of why many couples find it so hard to move on from an affair. Everything, including other issues in the relationship, becomes the affair. Any time the WS tries to work on anything else or expresses any needs not related to the affair, they get redirected back to the affair.

 

For the record, I am NOT saying this is what H did. I am saying that this is a pattern for many on this board.

 

Think of the affair as a huge tumor. We have cut it out of the marriage, and there was a lot of other damage done in dealing with it. But before we did radiation, there was an infection that was probably treatable. Now, because we didn't treat it before doing radiation, it may very well kill us.

 

H and I tried to work on it all at the same time, and we were moderately successful. But ultimately, we want different things.

 

I think ober had a pretty good analysis a couple posts back. H simply needs to be on his own and explore his own direction in life, and that is not conducive to what I want out of life.

Edited December 12, 2014 by compulsivedancer

[JustJoe]

I am constantly amazed that there are couples who have been married for half a century or more.

In almost every aspect of our lives, education is required before you venture upon an adult path. In business or Unions, you are required to have a training or apprenticeship. In Government or medicine, you are required to serve an internship. You have to have training to learn to hunt, play sports or drive a car........but any couple of dumbf*ck kids can get married and have kids, with no training , whatsoever. Nobody teaches you how to live with another person, before you actually do it. Some schools are trying , but too few. I believe that there should be a mandatory 1 year waiting period, before you can get married, and that every prospective spouse should be trained in a realistic manner about marriage and parenthood. I think this would reduce the number of affairs and failed marriages.

[aliveagain]

CD here goes, there may be a 2x4 or two in here but I feel I have to say it before you run. No one here ever intended to get attached to the story of you and CM but somehow both former wayward's and those betrayed saw hope in your posts and that perhaps relationships could with work and commitment survive infidelity. The last we herd from both of you it seemed you were well on your way to that goal even though some of us had taken shots at you, me being one, because you were saying the right things but it didn't appear by your actions that you would do the work required to follow through. You talked about O/M when you should have been talking about CM. Every time you did it was like watching a scene from distant Egypt, half a dozen men perched on a giant block of granite hammering their little copper chisels into the massive stone and with each blow the crack would expand just ever so slightly. That rock is your marriage but also represents every future relationship if that is the path you choose to take.

 

Others have pointed out your mastery at blame shifting like your posting about living in a house that you could see your breath in when it got cold, a house that his parents gave you. I see that as an opportunity to save money so you can buy your own house because it's hard as hell to save money when your rent eats up most of your earnings. A small electric heater, new or used would have helped you in that situation, you could move it room to room as needed.

 

My best memories are my memories of when I was a starving artist. I lived above a Chinese restaurant, that's all I could afford at the time. Smelling the food through the heat registers was hard because I couldn't afford food. The floors the walls everything smelled of sweet and sour chicken and fried rice. I suffered at the time and prayed to God to get me out of that situation, yet here I am today telling you that those were some of the best days of my life. I was having experiences that no one else I know was having, it forced me to be creative, money can't buy that. That house you and CM lived in will be a story like that because when you wrote about it I instantly thought back to my experience and it gave me good memories.

 

CM I guess what I am saying is do the fu*king work, don't run away because that's how you always deal with things, that hasn't been working out too well for you. You need to change your behaviour because your future depends on it. I don't see happiness for you until you do because every relationship will turn out the same way. Stop looking at your affair like some romance novel, see it for what it is, a disgusting dirty act with your husbands equally disgusting former friend. Put the effort into helping CM and yourself heal regardless of how this relationship turns out or both of you will suffer and carry that baggage into future relationships, it will be like handicapping yourselves before you even start. I am shaking you girl, wake up, wake up.

Edited December 12, 2014 by aliveagain

[compulsivedancer]

Others have pointed out your mastery at blame shifting like your posting about living in a house that you could see your breath in when it got cold, a house that his parents gave you. I see that as an opportunity to save money so you can buy your own house because it's hard as hell to save money when your rent eats up most of your earnings. A small electric heater, new or used would have helped you in that situation, you could move it room to room as needed.

 

My best memories are my memories of when I was a starving artist. I lived above a Chinese restaurant, that's all I could afford at the time. Smelling the food through the heat registers was hard because I couldn't afford food. The floors the walls everything smelled of sweet and sour chicken and fried rice. I suffered at the time and prayed to God to get me out of that situation, yet here I am today telling you that those were some of the best days of my life. I was having experiences that no one else I know was having, it forced me to be creative, money can't buy that. That house you and CM lived in will be a story like that because when you wrote about it I instantly thought back to my experience and it gave me good memories.

 

You know, I actually enjoyed it a lot of the time. It was a beautiful place to live, and it was an adventure - we spent a lot of dreams there, and we had great times imagining how we would fix it up.

 

Our poor electrical system couldn't handle enough heaters to warm the place up. So when the wind really blew, we could get it up to about 50 degrees, but we still had a $200 electric bill (huge for a house the size of a one bedroom apartment). Our shower drain froze a lot, and our septic tanks were so-so. Even so, it was fine for a young couple of students with limited funds.

 

But after being pregnant and our third flood scare, the excitement wore off. That's one of those pivot points in life when it's time to face facts and move on. That house was simply not a safe place for a baby, even with grandma and grandpa next door.

 

The simple truth is that I changed after my pregnancy and H didn't. This is where our paths began diverging.