Update: On my own now; how we got here

[aliveagain]

You know, I actually enjoyed it a lot of the time. It was a beautiful place to live, and it was an adventure - we spent a lot of dreams there, and we had great times imagining how we would fix it up.

 

Our poor electrical system couldn't handle enough heaters to warm the place up. So when the wind really blew, we could get it up to about 50 degrees, but we still had a $200 electric bill (huge for a house the size of a one bedroom apartment). Our shower drain froze a lot, and our septic tanks were so-so. Even so, it was fine for a young couple of students with limited funds.

 

But after being pregnant and our third flood scare, the excitement wore off. That's one of those pivot points in life when it's time to face facts and move on. That house was simply not a safe place for a baby, even with grandma and grandpa next door.

 

The simple truth is that I changed after my pregnancy and H didn't. This is where our paths began diverging.

 

God what I wouldn't give for an adventure now, that's a big part of what's missing in so many relationships when you take them for granted and don't work on them. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to build memories that will last you a lifetime. You can go to some amazing blues or jazz dumps and for a $10.00 cover charge and listen to some of the most amazing music. One of my great experiences was going to cheap blues club that was located in the basement of a church. It held maybe 100 people and had a small dance floor just in front of the stage(stage was distinguished by being raised one foot higher than the dance floor). We drank cheep drinks and danced all night. The band was a British band, John Mayal and the Blues Breakers, the lead guitarist was Eric Clapton, we were dancing 5 feet away from them all night.

[Furious]

CD

 

it's water under the bridge when two people divorce. You will have your version of the "marriage" and so will CM have his version of the "marriage".

 

You're already writing it, and no one can stop you from your version of the truth. The actually reality is a blend of both your stories.

 

The harsh truth is that as you move on in life you will face good times and bad times with whomever you end up with.

 

Divorcing a spouse does not wipe the slate clean in regard to future relationships if you bring in baggage from the old relationship into the new one.

 

My only advice is for you to be clear on what you want and can give in a relationship. To be honest, I really don't think you get it. You waver from wanting children and a home but also petitioned for an open marriage. It will be rare to find someone who wants children and a home with you and an open marriage. If this is what you want make it be clear in regard to any serous relationship you may enter in.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Furious

[aliveagain]

A little off topic but just as I finished writing a reply to your post regarding having been a starving artist and living above a Chinese restaurant so long ago, an email money transfer arrived for $5000.00, someone in Mexico just bought one of my paintings. Last week it was someone in California buying one of my Marilyn's. How things change.

[howcouldInotknow]

 

 

 

 

CD will be bringing more baggage then those freight tractors pulling 8 cars of luggage when they load up the planes at the airport.

 

 

Can she learn from this and grow? Her posts are showing no way at the moment. First step is to stop justifying her affair.

 

The first step to owning an affair is to stop saying:

 

 

I had an affair but

 

 

I had an affair because

 

 

Reasons for my affair were

 

 

I had an affair because my BH did

 

 

I had an affair because my BH did not

 

 

I had an affair because I was too young, too old, too whatever

 

 

 

Damn, you must be perfect. Your posts are always so judgemental. First of all she has to own nothing of he affair to random strangers on the internet. She isn't justifying she is saying what she felt. That does not instantly equal justification. OP is quite young learning herself. Just because CD doesn't "own" the affair to your liking doesn't mean she doesnt own it and it certainly doesn't mean she hasn't learned anything or grown from this experience.

[compulsivedancer]

My only advice is for you to be clear on what you want and can give in a relationship. To be honest, I really don't think you get it. You waver from wanting children and a home but also petitioned for an open marriage. It will be rare to find someone who wants children and a home with you and an open marriage. If this is what you want make it be clear in regard to any serous relationship you may enter in.

 

I don't really want an open marriage. WE discussed it. H was interested in it. We both wanted to experiment, because we both had no experience.

 

But after everything that has happened, I'm not particularly interested in that any more.

[jnel921]

I am constantly amazed that there are couples who have been married for half a century or more.

In almost every aspect of our lives, education is required before you venture upon an adult path. In business or Unions, you are required to have a training or apprenticeship. In Government or medicine, you are required to serve an internship. You have to have training to learn to hunt, play sports or drive a car........but any couple of dumbf*ck kids can get married and have kids, with no training , whatsoever. Nobody teaches you how to live with another person, before you actually do it. Some schools are trying , but too few. I believe that there should be a mandatory 1 year waiting period, before you can get married, and that every prospective spouse should be trained in a realistic manner about marriage and parenthood. I think this would reduce the number of affairs and failed marriages.

 

Actually the Catholic Church requires that you complete pre-cana which is a series of meetings with a psychologist, other married couples and the priests themselves to talk about and prepare you for M.

 

Too bad my first H wasn't listening at those meetings.

[Furious]

I don't really want an open marriage. WE discussed it. H was interested in it. We both wanted to experiment, because we both had no experience.

 

But after everything that has happened, I'm not particularly interested in that any more.

 

 

This is the problem. Translation to your above post...^^^^^

 

You were interested on an open marriage and it was you who brought up the idea to your husband. He intellectually considered it but he decided it was not something he felt comfortable with. You went ahead with it anyway without his knowledge.

 

You are still refusing to own it.

 

CD do you see how you phrase things to mask the real version. This is a problem.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Furious

[NateGrey]

It's irrelevant whether CM wants kids or not.

 

Nope, not at all irrelevant. Sorry, it's a huge red flag whenever anyone feels the wants of their spouse are "irrelevant".

 

CD wants a family and he was not able to provide her a timeline or reassurance that it's also something he wants.

 

To which she should of walked way right then and there.

 

If two people aren't on the same page with something important like children then it's best to end it. A relationship can't survive on love alone. It's fine if people don't want children. A person who wants chidren shouldn't be in a partnership with someone who does or vice versa.

 

Nothing you just said here makes whether or not the H wanted kids irrelevant. That doesn't mean to say she should sacrifice her own happiness, but to say it is irrelevant is totally false and if CD feels the same way you do(she liked your post so I assume she does) then it's just another reason why her ex just dodged a huge bullet. Sorry, my wife says what I want is totally irrelevant? There's the door sweetheart, don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out. Doesn't mean she can't leave me if our needs and wants are contradictory, but there is a difference between that and "what he wants doesn't matter".

[NateGrey]

Because anything is ever that simple. But I'm glad you can boil it all down into a sentence.

 

How anyone can say things like you are making progress when you say that not sleeping with your H's friends isn't "that simple" is beyond me. Marriage is complicated, love is complicated. Not screwing your H's friends is not complicated.

 

You will never make any progress until you can go back and read the comment you just said and find it utterly baffling. There is no middle ground here, an attitude like that needs to *baffle* you as to why you had it, for you to make any progress. Let us know when you are baffled.

[lgspot]

Thanks for the update CD. I’ve been following you and CM since the beginning. You & CM and DKT3 & lovin are some of my favorite posters. That’s not going to change whether you are together or not.

I think it takes real guts for two parties in a relationship to expose themselves like you all did---to allow us to voyeur your struggles towards R and individual recovery. If you talk to CM, tell him I’ve appreciated his insight. I hope you’ll continue the updates.

 

Allow me to introduce myself---this is my FIRST post, but have lurked LS off and on for years. I’m an old guy CD. Been around the block a time or two. Had numerous relationship issues over the years. In therapy seems like forever. Two major points I’ve learned in my recovery struggles is that you gotta take EVERYTHING "one day at a time."Recovery is seldom linier. We don’t go from Point A (A in this case meaning both “THE affair” and hurt/loss) to Point B (POST affair happy/well). There will be steps forward. Detours to the side. AND damn there will be setbacks. Some posters appear to want you to zoom from point A to B along some prearranged, prepared schedule and they‘re ticked because it isn‘t instant HIGH SPEED Internet remorse and submission. Can’t speak for everybody, but I for one have seen positive growth. Keep going CM at your own best timing. Keep your head up. You may be “On your own now” CD, but you got LS if you need something. Keep coming back. People here care!!! Even when they're shaking you.

 

 

As a side note---let me switch gears and share what prompted my 1st post now.

Jnel21 I’ve read some of your stuff. You’re a gifted writer. You’ve been through a lot, been here a long time. You’ve put out good info in your threads. You’ve helped people Thank you for that! I seriously mean every word…

Here’s where my recovery takes a step sideways. You jnel have hit one of my triggers.

I want to see CD and my cheating exes bark like dogs. You hold her down & while she IS down I’ll get the red paint. I’ll paint the letter on her. I’m gonna tag a big “C” for CHEATER cause I no longer like the letter “A” and all its come to represent. Lets draft a petition to Washington. I want to see another block to check on every document----Married: Divorced: Single: Separated: CHEATER. I want those damn cheaters labeled. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Jnel you called Bull. I call BULLS*** !!!!!! <<<<Sarcastic Rant over>>>

RECOVERY IS POSSIBLE AND IT FEELS GOOD!!!! (whichever side of the A-aisle you’er on. WS or BS)

 

jnel I’m not against you. I’m really not. I didn’t come here to debate. As I’ve written, this posting thing is new to me. My posting intent is not to defend Dancer. She does quite well on her own. You both are articulate, and write well. I get it. You didn’t like being a BS. I didn’t like being a BS. By what I’ve read of their story, I don’t think CD likes the fallout of what happened either. Granted. She helped make her bed, but by reading their stories, were a lot of mistakes made. BY EVERYBODY. jnel, you played the age card. I suspect I’m older. Over the years, I’ve seen and heard dozens,& dozens,& dozens of cheating stories. I’ve been cheated on by 3 people I'm aware of for sure. Considering my "number" the kids talk about, not bad actually for 40+ years in the relationship/love/sex adventure. I’ve had more friends than I can count have affairs. I’ve seen people who worked for me have affairs, bosses I’ve worked for had affairs, etc… Sometimes I’ve heard his side, sometimes hers, and sometimes both. I’ve gazed into hurting eyes, seen children used as pawns. I’ve known a brother who cheated with his brother’s wife. I even know a girl who got involved with her brother’s girlfriend, and torpedoed their relationship. That was a new one for me. Point being, when the infidelity $hit hit’s the fan everybody tends to get splattered.

 

 

Lets go a different direction. CD/CM’s story is interesting on so many levels to me. Lot of dynamics involved and story still evolving. Its got it all----we have, sex, ticking clock, love, friendship, feelings, talk of kids, music, betrayal, and penis size. We have threesomes discussed and open marriage on the table. That’s just the first year of their saga. Awesome!

 

Let’s hit up an issue I haven’t seen emphasized much and that’s OM. Yes I read some threads about him in the past, but lets take another direction and I hope Dancer explores this in therapy. She was taken advantage of BIG TIME. Its obvious CD is intelligent. She’s no fool. She got some things out of this that she was needing. She got ego strokes, shared feelings, talk of love, sex play, etc… Things she was missing for whatever reason. Kinda appears CM slacked a bit there. There were cracks showing in the marriage. But frankly, she was taken advantage of even as smart as she is and in ways I want to take issue with OM and don’t even know the guy.

 

 

Marriages tend to ebb and flow depending upon what life throws at the participants… Fact is CD and CM were both taken advantage of by a “predator.” A skilled predator. IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE (I am one)… OM doesn’t understand friendship and failed them both when their marriage could have really used a good friend whether said marriage was to survive or not. Unless I’m missing something, OM exploited CD from the early days. He desired her-stalked her-and at first opportunity-pounced. CD might have strayed anyway. Who knows? This guy had “inside info.” He was the best friend. He knew what made CM and CD tick. He knew what buttons to push. Again who knows? If CD explores deep enough thru her therapy she might discover OM even helped create some marital cracks all along. Some predators have an agenda. From outside looking in it looks like that to me. To be a bit blunt----POINT BLANK----unless CM told both OM and CD and made abundantly clear----“OM you have my blessings to “screw” CD if that’s what CD wants” >>>>bulk of blame points directly to >>>>OM… Best Friends DO NOT “screw” Best Friend’s wife even if she is hanging buck naked, doing acrobatics from the ceiling fan with a sign on her forehead…. There is a “bro-code.”

Back in the day (remember I’m old), There was a derogatory term for what OM pulled.

Sometimes the most intelligent people are the most trusting and vulnerable. Its apparent to me CD opened her heart and was exploited and abandoned. As so often happens in the A, when OM could step up, and do the right thing they vanish. When Best Friend could have stepped up and done the right thing by his best friend he vanished. This OM is a jerk. Not a mystery to me CD was searching for closure and had slips in her recovery and pushed CM's boundaries.

I personally experienced a similar situation and it lingers... 3o years later and I still have no "closure."

 

People keep talking about you running, but really where have you run?

Some tell the first step is what appears to be a continually shifting definition of “owning” the affair.

How could she not own the affair? Its been the fu*king elephant in the room from day one? She got caught. How at this point does one not own the affair?

The idea is progress comes before perfection.

From her very first thread until this point I’ve seen progress from Dancer. I believe she’s getting there. I don’t think the 2X4s are called for today.

She’s struggling. Maybe she needs a gentle hand up?

 

 

Its been mentioned she needs to work on herself. I agree.

Been suggested that future romantic prospects might shy away. I concur. Good point. Yet I also would caution she guard herself. For every good guy that backs off, there will be dozens that try to pounce. She’s wounded right now. She doesn’t deserve to be a target for anyone no matter how her affair played out. Piling wrong on wrong doesn't equal right.

 

 

She needs the tools towards her recovery. Every recovery program I’m aware of has a map. “Steps”. 12 of them. There’s a 13th unwritten one having to do with affairs, and sex, and such, but isn’t that what started this whole mess?

 

 

aliveagain I think she is and wants to do the fu*cking work. She’s been shaken. CM has been shaken. Enough with the shakings.

PS: Good luck with the paintings.

 

 

Personally I want to cheer the progress this couple is making. I want to celebrate something good that rises above the carnage most affairs leave in their wake.

Good Luck Dancer. I wish you Happy Holidays and offer my well wishes on your journey. Please keep the updates coming.

 

 

I think my posting career has closed….

 

 

 

 

 

 

　

Off topic: I would have loved to be there to have seen Clapton in those days….

[compulsivedancer]

This is the problem. Translation to your above post...^^^^^

 

You were interested on an open marriage and it was you who brought up the idea to your husband. He intellectually considered it but he decided it was not something he felt comfortable with. You went ahead with it anyway without his knowledge.

 

You are still refusing to own it.

 

CD do you see how you phrase things to mask the real version. This is a problem.

 

Or you can actually listen to what I say and not rephrase it to meet your assumptions. Contrary to what H said in his post, HE brought it up. He conveniently forgot this once we began discussing it as a reality. I always got the impression that he wanted to sleep with other people but wasn't interested in me doing the same.

 

But it is true that he was not prepared for the reality of it, and eventually decided he couldn't handle it. I preceded anyway and ended up in an affair. I have never disputed any of this.

 

I know that I had an affair. I know that I hurt him immeasurably and irrevocably damaged the relationship. I have never denied ANY of those things here. In fact, I have had numerous threads where I took an immense amount of sh]t.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure why you feel the need to hammer this home in this thread. Especially since you don't believe anything I say anyway.

 

The marriage is ending. The affair is long since over.

 

I don't have to "own" the affair in this thread. I have already done that repeatedly elsewhere. Including in other posts in this thread.

[compulsivedancer]

Thank you, lg. It means a lot that you decided to post your first post in my thread. I don't really have a lot to add right now, but I do appreciate all the people here who have taken an interest in me and CM and our story.

[road]

 

 

 

 

 

Damn, you must be perfect. Your posts are always so judgemental. First of all she has to own nothing of he affair to random strangers on the internet. She isn't justifying she is saying what she felt. That does not instantly equal justification. OP is quite young learning herself. Just because CD doesn't "own" the affair to your liking doesn't mean she doesnt own it and it certainly doesn't mean she hasn't learned anything or grown from this experience.

 

 

 

Don't hate me because I am and your less then perfect.

 

 

She can not own it for herself or her BH. Recovery needs a solid foundation to build on.

[NateGrey]

Thank you, lg. It means a lot that you decided to post your first post in my thread. I don't really have a lot to add right now, but I do appreciate all the people here who have taken an interest in me and CM and our story.

 

Just to be clear, the person you are thanking also said you were "taken advantage of". Tell me you at least disagree with that part.

[compulsivedancer]

Just to be clear, the person you are thanking also said you were "taken advantage of". Tell me you at least disagree with that part.

 

Well, my own husband believes that; he's the one who suggested it. I'm not sure I believe it. I went into the thing with my eyes open. While I was naive to think I could have sex over a long period with soneone without developing feelings for him, I don't really think that OM did anything more than seize an opportunity. Obviously he had privileged info and access to me that a typical AP would not have, so it's possible. But either way it doesn't let me off the hook.

 

Btw, thanking someone does not mean I agree with everything they say. Neither does liking a post. Sometimes it just means that I acknowledge the post and appreciate the support.

[compulsivedancer]

Btw, since it's been brought up by a few people...H and I never discussed having a threesome in any way related to OM, the affair or the open marriage idea. That was introduced by road in a thread many months ago, where he got us mixed up with a completely different poster and managed to confuse a lot of people. (He doesn't always read the whole post/thread when he comments).

[Confused48]

Obviously he had privileged info and access to me that a typical AP would not have, so it's possible. But either way it doesn't let me off the hook.

 

 

This is what I love about CD. And my own WW who in the end decided to stab me in the back and text her OM, not that much different than what CD did. Despite the betrayal and hurt that brings, they both are over the top about one thing. The OM is a worthless POS but they went in with eyes open. The OM may be an opportunistic predator but they don't give any weight to that. They take all the blame for whatever happened upon themselves.

 

Is that right? Not in my opinion. They deserve a bit of slack bc of the predatory and unfair advantage that the OM had. But they don't ask for that or even accept it when offered. Noble. Not to excuse or overlook all the other awful things. But this is noble.

[katielee]

There's comes a time in every affair where the WS knows exactly what they're doing. My husband also said my AP was a predator. Who the heck cares. I was in full control of saying yes or no, same as every other wayward here...

Ppl in affairs aren't taken advantage of. If someone is vulnerable or impressionable that's still their issue to deal with in a healthy, mature way.

Edited December 14, 2014 by katielee
Misspellings

[road]

This is what I love about CD. And my own WW who in the end decided to stab me in the back and text her OM, not that much different than what CD did. Despite the betrayal and hurt that brings, they both are over the top about one thing. The OM is a worthless POS but they went in with eyes open. The OM may be an opportunistic predator but they don't give any weight to that. They take all the blame for whatever happened upon themselves.

 

Is that right? Not in my opinion. They deserve a bit of slack bc of the predatory and unfair advantage that the OM had. But they don't ask for that or even accept it when offered. Noble. Not to excuse or overlook all the other awful things. But this is noble.

 

 

 

You are still confused. Every time CD says she had a PA she always follows that with a reason. That is not taking blame it is making excuses to try and justify her doing the OM.

[Selfish]

You are still confused. Every time CD says she had a PA she always follows that with a reason. That is not taking blame it is making excuses to try and justify her doing the OM.

 

Generally when someone has a PA there is a reason. (not a good reason, but a motive non the less)

 

poor boundaries. selfish thinking. poor coping skills (often times the person is "desperate". a need for external validation. But the problems with her marriage don't magically disappear because she had an affair. And some people can see the issues as separate.

 

Marriages fail for many reasons. This one failed for more than one. When you are on different pages reconciliation is pointless.

 

But, CD has a bad habit of making things dramatic and going down in flames. And being passive aggressive to get her way (the note). And hurtful. I hope she learns to be a little less bull headed. I am positive though as far as cheating goes. She has learned it helps nor solves anything.

[NateGrey]

Well, my own husband believes that; he's the one who suggested it. I'm not sure I believe it. I went into the thing with my eyes open.

 

If your own H falsely believes things like this then it helps to explain why you believe some of the things you do. He practically handed you an excuse, I find this puzzling. Why is it always the man who took advantage of the woman?

 

I don't really think that OM did anything more than seize an opportunity.

 

Why is the man the one who "seized" something? You didn't seize an opportunity to cheat, just like he seized one for sex? You both seized things.

 

Obviously he had privileged info and access to me that a typical AP would not have, so it's possible. But either way it doesn't let me off the hook.

 

I'm betting you had privileged information about him too, did you not? He was your H's best friend, so this goes both ways does it not? There is no way it doesn't go both ways when it comes to "privileged information".

Edited December 14, 2014 by NateGrey

[NateGrey]

This is what I love about CD. And my own WW who in the end decided to stab me in the back and text her OM, not that much different than what CD did. Despite the betrayal and hurt that brings, they both are over the top about one thing. The OM is a worthless POS but they went in with eyes open. The OM may be an opportunistic predator but they don't give any weight to that. They take all the blame for whatever happened upon themselves.

 

You realize that accepting responsibility for ones actions is not over the top behavior right? I also find fault with your last line, if a person was taking all the blame I don't think they'd even be entertaining the idea they were taken advantage of.

 

Is that right? Not in my opinion. They deserve a bit of slack bc of the predatory and unfair advantage that the OM had. But they don't ask for that or even accept it when offered. Noble. Not to excuse or overlook all the other awful things. But this is noble.

 

I see no unfair advantage the other man had here. No more or less an advantage then CD herself had. You act like the guy had sex based super powers. No, he was a selfish man who found a female who was his equal in that regard. It seems like you are bending over backwards in an attempt to find something "noble" about all this. There is nothing noble about recognizing you are an adult and are thus responsible for your own choices.

 

There's comes a time in every affair where the WS knows exactly what they're doing. My husband also said my AP was a predator. Who the heck cares. I was in full control of saying yes or no, same as every other wayward here...

Ppl in affairs aren't taken advantage of. If someone is vulnerable or impressionable that's still their issue to deal with in a healthy, mature way.

 

I wish more cheaters were this self aware. Something tells me Loveshack as a whole would be a lot less depressing.

[compulsivedancer]

I wish more cheaters were this self aware. Something tells me Loveshack as a whole would be a lot less depressing.

 

Interesting. katielee and I said exactly the same thing, that it doesn't matter one way or another what OM's motivations were because it doesn't let me off the hook.

Edited December 14, 2014 by compulsivedancer

[AlwaysGrowing]

Interesting. katielee and I said exactly the same thing, that it doesn't matter one way or another what OM's motivations were because it doesn't let me off the hook.

 

 

CD, I think what some see is how you "flirt" with the notion of "predatory" OM, insider info, privileged access, OM seizing the opportunity, I was naive, it's possible, not sure I believe. And that is from one short post.

 

It is throwing as much **** against a wall to see what one can get to stick...and if it falls off...backtracking and saying...I never intended for it to stick.

 

If the intent wasn't meant to have some of it stick....why throw it in the first place? Are you sure there isn't a part of you that does believe or wants to believe?

[AlwaysGrowing]

Generally when someone has a PA there is a reason. (not a good reason, but a motive non the less)

 

poor boundaries. selfish thinking. poor coping skills (often times the person is "desperate". a need for external validation. But the problems with her marriage don't magically disappear because she had an affair. And some people can see the issues as separate.

 

Marriages fail for many reasons. This one failed for more than one. When you are on different pages reconciliation is pointless.

 

But, CD has a bad habit of making things dramatic and going down in flames. And being passive aggressive to get her way (the note). And hurtful. I hope she learns to be a little less bull headed. I am positive though as far as cheating goes. She has learned it helps nor solves anything.

 

 

Going behind your spouses back to re engage with your AP, is cheating. I personally do not see (through current actions) that there was any learning in regard to helping or solving anything through cheating. The exact same mindset used during the affair was alive and well fed months out.

 

Yes, marriages can fail for many reasons. Yes, not all marriages SHOULD be saved.

 

And sometimes a WS never earns/grows/learns the place of FWS.

 

Actually, BOTH can be true at the same time. A marriage ending because of past/current issues AND the WS never getting to the place of FWS.