RightThere Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Well, I don't know about the similar value systems... I've never gone out of my way to cheat. A few times I received oral at work when I was married, but the girls at work were very aggressive and the environment was extremely conducive to such a failing. Not to mention, my wife was verbally and at times physically abusive... But I've never been a cheater, and generally I am very loyal. I really doubt she's a chronic cheater. Just my gut. Go with your gut. It seems to serve you well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Zenstudent Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Well, I don't know about the similar value systems... I've never gone out of my way to cheat. A few times I received oral at work when I was married, but the girls at work were very aggressive and the environment was extremely conducive to such a failing. Not to mention, my wife was verbally and at times physically abusive... But I've never been a cheater, and generally I am very loyal. I really doubt she's a chronic cheater. Just my gut. I don't think she's chronic either, just on occasion. And she isn't aggressive at work, is she? So maybe it's just when an opportunity presents itself. But how do you plan to reel her in? Link to post Share on other sites
Author everybody Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Wow. Every sentence is a self delusional justification to yourself to engage in bad behavior. Every single sentence. Do you not see that? I actually am very aware of that. It's crazy, I know. If I'm being honest though, I really don't know that I would have allowed those work incidents to happen if I had been in a loving relationship. I am not being delusional at all when I say my then-wife was abusive—she was absolutely borderline. I've never strayed in any other relationship. But one thing I learned from that experience was that people are capable of more than even they themselves know... that job entailed traveling on a bus with three women everyday, spending up to 10 hours a day on the road... You try to resist at first, I did, I really did... but when it's in the micro-culture, when everyone is being so sexual, it's hard to overcome if not impossible. I was literally molested by two of the girls in the beginning, before I started behaving badly myself. We're all just human. Knowing those women I worked with, I think they would not have been like that in a normal work environment that didn't come with all that privacy and alone time. I think that is something to think about beyond the scope of this thread or my problem... it was an interesting eye-opener. Link to post Share on other sites
lostnadrift Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Relationships that begin as affairs have the odds stacked against them statistically. Even if every course of action now turns towards your favor, you can never change the fact that she has it in her to be cruel and deceptive towards a man she had loved enough to marry. But maybe it's different in your case. It has to be, all the other failed relationships from the stats didn't have such strong chemistry and love as what you have with her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author everybody Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Relationships that begin as affairs have the odds stacked against them statistically. Even if every course of action now turns towards your favor, you can never change the fact that she has it in her to be cruel and deceptive towards a man she had loved enough to marry. But maybe it's different in your case. It has to be, all the other failed relationships from the stats didn't have such strong chemistry and love as what you have with her. It didn't start as an affair. We were together while she was separated. She met my parents and family, she was about to introduce me to her's... I was her date to a wedding where she was a bridesmaid... I mean, there was integration to an extent. Doesn't that make things a little more complicated than most straight up affairs? Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It didn't start as an affair. We were together while she was separated. She met my parents and family, she was about to introduce me to her's... I was her date to a wedding where she was a bridesmaid... I mean, there was integration to an extent. Doesn't that make things a little more complicated than most straight up affairs? No it doesn't make it more complicated - it makes it the same, as the end result is she is still married and seeing you on the sly. Did you ever see her divorce papers? How can you be certain she was lined up to divorce? What evidence did she give you? Please don't say her word - because she's a known liar and you never met her family. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 We were together while she was separated. She met my parents and family, she was about to introduce me to her's... I was her date to a wedding where she was a bridesmaid... I mean, there was integration to an extent. Here's one of many hard truths that you - and other OM/W - work hard to avoid: When presented with this romantic, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be with you, she chose to go back to her husband. Regardless of the crumbs she's now offering, she chose life with him over life with you. I guess you just handle rejection really well ... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lostnadrift Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It didn't start as an affair. We were together while she was separated. She met my parents and family, she was about to introduce me to her's... I was her date to a wedding where she was a bridesmaid... I mean, there was integration to an extent. Doesn't that make things a little more complicated than most straight up affairs? It's a technicality. It's an affair now because you know she is with her husband so you're behaving like an OM. You both are colluding against him so she is treating you like an OM and herself behaving like a WW and you treating her like a MW. A part of me just wants to say **** it, you both deserve each other. Go get married then go though the pain of divorce where she emotionally and financially destroys you eventually. But you may ruin your innocent children's lives and perpetuate this dysfunctional behaviour to succeeding generations. So think carefully the odds are against you both. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
notbroken Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You will 'reap what you sow'. Either way, this 'lady' is going to bring you pain. Either short term when she uses you for just sex and leaves you lonely and waiting on her before she dumps you for yet another side piece or long term when you 'win' her (not much of a win) and then she cheats on you yet again. She's a liar. Plain and simple. She's a cheater. Plain and simple. She is not 'the one'. There are plenty of lying and cheating women around. There are also ones that are not. You pick. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 My advice. .....let her know that you love her and when she is free to date you, fully divorced you'd like to see her decree absolute, then you can take it from there. Otherwise tell her not to contact you and block her number. She's hurting you and you don't hurt those you love. If she was separated when you met and she went back to hm, what does that tell you? I'd be thinking it says you weren't enough for her. So despite how you perceive this' relationship', she clearly doesn't. I get that it didn't technically start as an A. But like others I wonder if she really was separated. She could have easily lied about where she was at the wedding. Maybe it was a different social circle her husband had no knowledge of and she would never be found out. Bottom line. ..........you deserve better and your conscience is telling you that. I don't believe you wanted to engage in an A. Don't drop your standards be firm with her. Her actions will speak volumes Btw......There are loads of single girls out there. Doesn't matter where you live. Go out, get on dating sites and I'm sure you'll have a number of responses. Don't settle for being number 2. Link to post Share on other sites
Appreciate Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) You sound weak. I take that back. You are weak. "We're all just human?". You were molested? Please.. do women control your actions? Maybe your ex-wife was borderline and abusive but that doesn't give you a pass to fool around with women from work. Don't blame your ex-wife.. it's your responsibility to either help your wife or divorce her if she's abusive (certainly a valid reason for divorce). First, not later. This WW sounds like she has a character disorder or a personality disorder as well. What attracts you to these women? The sex, being the rescuer, the confidant, one-upping the husband to stroke your own ego? Healthy people avoid situations like this.. it doesn't sound like you are that healthy. The WW you describe sounds like my XW. Turns out she is a serial cheater and goes through the same stages with each man she is with -- idealization, devaluation and then discard. Don't let some femme fatale charm you with her "essence" when behind that apparently glowing personality is an unstable person. She may go years appearing "normal" but she is most likely not. My guess is she has some childhood issues (cheating parent, abandonment, etc.) at the heart of this. She needs to feel desired, wanted, appreciated much more than a healthy person would. I'm not saying she is evil incarnate and I'm sure there is very much a real person there as well, but clearly she does not value the people she claims to love. She values herself first and foremost, so that means you and everyone else will forever be second place. Edited January 1, 2015 by Appreciate 3 Link to post Share on other sites
loveboid Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) To me the solution is to tell her that you'd be interested in marrying her if she were single. First you'd need to get to that point in your heart and head though. This does two things: 1) Frees her from her marriage if she feels trapped because now she has a soft landing. 2) Tells you how she really feels about you if she refuses to take you up on your offer. Of course, she may say something like you don't make enough or other excuse but you'd still have your answer nonetheless. If you aren't at the point of marrying or never will be with this woman, then I would take what I need from her at the moment if she's okay with it (she seems to be) and move on when you're ready. Edited January 1, 2015 by loveboid comprehension 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Oberfeldwebel Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Have you heard the old joke about the guy that asks the lady at the bar "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" She responds sure, so he asks "Well would you sleep with me for a dollar?" She says no, what do you think I am? He said "We've already established that, it is the price that is still in question". She has already proven herself to be a liar and a cheat. If she leaves her husband for you, she will do the same to you. You will be sad and ask how can this happen, when she has already shown herself to you. But this really has nothing to do with her or her husband, this is about you. What kind of person do you want to be in life? Do you want to be the guy that is a POS and takes another man's wife or fine a real woman that wants a committed relationship with you? Don't give me the I couldn't help myself BS answer, that is just an excuse. She wants you to commit before she jumps ship, that is why she wants to keep her husband as plan B. Time to put your big boy pants on and set this one free. Once she is divorced, then you can do what you want. I don't recommend it, but at least she wouldn't have left her husband for you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Majormisstep Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 You are waxing poetic over an impossible situation. She is feeding you lies and horse pucky in effort to keep you reeled in as her boy toy. And make no mistake, once her "emotionally unavailable" H finds out about you, there's going to be an overabundance of emotion - all very damaging. She'll throw you under the Greyhound bus seven ways to Sunday. Or, once she grows bored of you, she'll begin to pull away and that will drive you to madness. She is not leaving her M. Don't wait until the bottom has dropped out for you to see what this really is...a lie. There are plenty of wonderful, creative and artistic females out there. Maybe not in your village but NYC is not that far away(?). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
clevelander321 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It didn't start as an affair. We were together while she was separated. She met my parents and family, she was about to introduce me to her's... I was her date to a wedding where she was a bridesmaid... I mean, there was integration to an extent. Doesn't that make things a little more complicated than most straight up affairs? My wife left me for another man.. A man she knew for a week and she met on vacation... She told him she was separated.. She even tried to tell me we were separated, I guess without me even knowing.. To this day she still tells me we were separated.. It's interesting how similar all of these affair cases are.. I was painted to be the worst husband ever.. Abusive.. Nothing in common etc.. Looking back she was and is an excellent manipulator. She somehow got this new guy to send her lots of money for a new car, home, attorneys etc.. I won't take her back, but I think she now sees what kind of a mistake she made. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 To me the solution is to tell her that you'd be interested in marrying her if she were single. First you'd need to get to that point in your heart and head though. This does two things: 1) Frees her from her marriage if she feels trapped because now she has a soft landing. 2) Tells you how she really feels about you if she refuses to take you up on your offer. Of course, she may say something like you don't make enough or other excuse but you'd still have your answer nonetheless. If you aren't at the point of marrying or never will be with this woman, then I would take what I need from her at the moment if she's okay with it (she seems to be) and move on when you're ready. This is your solution right here. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Did she come visit you? What happened? Link to post Share on other sites
Author everybody Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 She came to see me. It was an amazing four days. We always have a lot of fun together and this was no different. We made love every night and it was great. When I took her to the airport it was very emotional, we had a hard time parting, kissing and saying 'I love you' through sobbing tears... it was pathetic, but... cathartic and kind of beautiful. She's still with her husband and still 10 hours away. We talk every day and it feels like we're together. There's a good chance that she will come back at the end of this month to be my date for a gallery reception for a show I'm in... It means a lot to me that she's willing to bend backwards and stretch her resources to be there for it. We talk as if we have a future, which I know is typical and not necessarily a good indicator of what will happen. The other night she asked me some questions about how I'd feel if a couple people in her family who love her husband were not warm with me after she left him for me... if I'd mind maybe avoiding meeting her sister in particular for awhile. Things like this would lead me to think she's taking making the jump seriously, she even gave a target date of maybe August (which is fine by me because I think we both need time to save and think about the logistics, we're not rich), but perhaps the purpose is to make it seem like she's really thinking and it's masturbatory conversation... it didn't feel like that, it felt like something she'd been mulling over. She's concerned about what her family will think. Part of this I think comes from the fact that her and her family are religious while I am an atheist But I'm the black sheep of my own family in that respect too so it doesn't bother me, and I'm not militant about it so it doesn't come up much... But I digress... her asking could be a part of a self-deception in her case. I feel that we are both genuinely in love... and I think that if she would move and be with me, I would marry her eventually. I have reservations, serious ones... but I love her and I feel like we could grow together. I do resent her indecision though and the longer this goes on I feel the more damage it does, the weaker our foundation becomes. It would be hard but if I met someone and we really hit it off I wouldn't dismiss the opportunity to get with someone whose situation is less complicated. But me and this girl just click, it feels right even if it's not in glaringly obvious ways. Link to post Share on other sites
clevelander321 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 You sound weak. The WW you describe sounds like my XW. Turns out she is a serial cheater and goes through the same stages with each man she is with -- idealization, devaluation and then discard. Don't let some femme fatale charm you with her "essence" when behind that apparently glowing personality is an unstable person. She may go years appearing "normal" but she is most likely not. My guess is she has some childhood issues (cheating parent, abandonment, etc.) at the heart of this. She needs to feel desired, wanted, appreciated much more than a healthy person would. I'm not saying she is evil incarnate and I'm sure there is very much a real person there as well, but clearly she does not value the people she claims to love. She values herself first and foremost, so that means you and everyone else will forever be second place. Excellent post... These people will do the exact same thing over and over as that is all they are capable of. The exact phases you mention.. Deep intense amazing love, start to pick on you, then leave you as if you never existed.. These people usually NEVER love anyone.. It is all an illusion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HereNorThere Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The harsh reality is that she is going to drop you want she finds out that you are not satisfied being her side piece. She had a choice to be with either of you and she chose him as her first choice and kept you around for a little fun. The second you start making her question herself or feel guilty about her fun you'll be dropped, HARD! Man, you got those crazy making obsessive neurotransmitters flowing through you right now. I bet you feel like you could puke rainbows, lol. Oh man, the higher you get on those, the harder you're going to fall. Been there, buddy. And did you really say you got blown at work but never cheated? Ummm, it does sound like you and this woman have a lot in common. There's no way out of this but pain and probably 2 or 3 family's worth once it all blows up. Surely you're smarter than this, but maybe you aren't. Don't worry, your lesson is coming. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author everybody Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 None of this is as b&w as you say. I think we'd still be together if I didn't move. And she wouldn't drop me the second the moment I made her start questioning herself.. I can't tell you how much I've done that and how much serious talk we've had. And I've made her feel guilty to the point of tears before. Anyway, beach, my update is on the end of the last page. She did come. Link to post Share on other sites
harrybrown Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What did she tell her H about her trip and her time with you? When you marry her, will you let her take trips to be with OMs? Think about the pain her H will have from her betrayal. Some betrayed spouses go off the deep end and look to hurt the OM. Be careful, you may get what you wish for, a cheating wife and some betrayed spouse looking for payback. Link to post Share on other sites
Broom Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yikes. She sounds like she has really got a hold on you, and she knows it. I'd like to know more of the details about her running back to her husband before the divorce was finalized. So, she actually FILED for divorce and was going through the proceedings and then got to run back to her husband without any consequence. During the time of the divorce, did she separate? Did she ever tell her husband about you? It just seems weird. The fact she ran back to her husband before the divorce was finalized makes this situation very weird. You're head over heels and she obviously doesn't feel the same way. If she did, no question, she would have went through with the divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
Broom Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I can't tell you how much I've done that and how much serious talk we've had. And I've made her feel guilty to the point of tears before. Please don't take any solace in this. You don't know why she was crying, and these people tend to be very good actors. Link to post Share on other sites
Chasing_mya Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 She's never leaving her H. She had the opportunity and was close to divorce but never saw it through. You are a sweet escape to her. You are fun and a beautiful distraction from what is going on in her marriage. Please know this is all for the moment. It will be short lived and when she goes back to her H you will be left alone again and missing her. Do yourself the favor and don't go there again with her...Its all just a vicious cycle and you are caught up in a married woman who will never leave. Stop making excuses about there not being alot of prospects. You are a smart, independant man and you deserve an available woman who can offer you the same. Please take this from a woman who has been down this road before. Link to post Share on other sites
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