Why do a lot of women expect MORE for LESS?

[smg15]

Compare your story to what Mangina posted here. He admits to struggling in dating, and as a result, he would be willing to ignore some red flags to be with someone.

 

People have higher standards either because they can get them, or they think they can. You say that 45 out of 50 of your messages weren't options. Well, if you no longer got those 5 messages you do consider options, your standards might change.

 

I have seen how OLD works from many different perspectives. I know good looking guys who message average looking women just trying to get laid. Those women then start to alter their standards because they think they can get guys like that. When that doesn't work out, it's ok, because there are 4 other good looking options messaging you, right?

 

 

And those average girls have no ideal it's "fake interest"

[Mister Zen]

Since PUA tactics are designed to screw with a woman's self-esteem, you're only helping to make all of this worse.

 

Yet you don't ask the question of why I (or any man) would turn to PUA in the first place.

 

Obviously the honest approach wasn't working. So what do you have to say about that?

[Mister Zen]

Flawed women? You mean the ones who enjoyed sex before they were married and then had the nerve to want a great committed relationship?? Don't go out with them! What's to talk about, it's simple, I'm sure those women aren't chomping at the bit to have a chance with you either!! :bunny:

 

Who said I go out with them?

 

But why is talking about them or having an opinion about them such a big problem for you?

[ktya]

Man, I didn't get laid on my wedding night. She informed me that she had a new medical problem. And that was the lie she use throughout our entire marriage. That was the beginning of the end of our sex life. After five years I was barely getting laid at all. Any time I pushed for more she got angry and nasty and started making all sorts of accusations. And NOT ONCE did she ever offer any alternatives.

 

Honestly, I am pretty sure that she planned the whole thing.

 

When we divorced and she was accusing me of all sorts of stuff, I pointed out that in spite of having a virtually sexless marriage, I never cheated on her. Her response was basically to F off, that she had to go without sex too. When I think of all the times I could have cheated but instead chose to be a loyal husband who has a wife with a medical problem, I want to shoot myself all over again.

 

The "medical problem". Lol. Reminds me of my ex. She grew in size by 50%, would ask me for a weeks notice if I was going to take her to the pool with the kid because she hadnt shaved her legs in a month and had the gall to say i wasnt showing her enough affection and she hadnt been laid in months. When i suggested that she at least try to maintain her appearance, and may try coming to bed at a regular hour instead of watching TV until 4 am then sleeping on the couch, she cited she had a medical problem that prevented her from being able to sleep at night. She slept during the day just fine.

 

I got more enjoyment out of jerking off than dealing with all that to be honest.

[autumnnight]

With regard to sex I will admit that I do see a lot of double standard on forums. Modern pseudofeminism aside, 99% of men equate sex with love and have a wired in need for sex in order to feel intimacy. But when a man comes to a forum and says my wife will only have sex with me 5 times a year the first thing people do is pick apart all the things he MUST be doing to make her not want to have sex. Then I hear even more silliness about how just because someone gets married doesn't mean they intended to have sex and sex shouldn't be assumed. What???? If I'm not going to be having sex then I'm not going to marry that person. I can get a roommate through the newspaper. But really, women who do not understand some of these basic NEEDS that men have need to educate themselves before having a man commit to them for life. Most women want a man to help support the household no matter what mood he is in or how nice they have been to him. Most women want a man to be a good dad no matter how much or little they have conversed with him that week. So why do we think men have to earn enough points with their wives to get the ONE biggest expression of intimacy that matters to men?

 

There. I just agreed with part of the OP. Maybe some of the well thought out balancing thoughts will resonate now. I doubt it because women-denegrating 100% agreement was the goal, but at least I tried.

[ktya]

But these women still have the option to see if those messages are from a man they like. Some men don't get any messages and don;t have the option to browse through a inbox full of messages. Options is what makes people more picky.

 

For example I was chatting with a girl who lived about an hour away and once I started getting messages from women who were 15 mins away I stopped calling the girl who was further. And that's because since 3 girls were 15 mins away I didn't have to meet up with someone an hour away.

 

You are missing the point missbee is making. Women dont just get tons of choice on online dating. They tend to get tons of choice everywhere. Think about it, if an average girl walks up to an average guy who is single at a bar and says, "i want to f**k you. Lets get out of here.". Most guys would jump for it.

 

Women learn to be a bit picky from a young age. Even a 15 year old may get approached by men who are in their 40s who may not realize they are jailbait.

 

I do think that OLD makes women more picky though, its like shopping. Women enjoy going and trying things on and not buying them. That drives men insane, we focus like a laser and buy what we need and get the hell out of there. And they wonder why womens stuff all costs more than mens lol

[nofeelings22]

You are missing the point missbee is making. Women dont just get tons of choice on online dating. They tend to get tons of choice everywhere. Think about it, if an average girl walks up to an average guy who is single at a bar and says, "i want to f**k you. Lets get out of here.". Most guys would jump for it.

 

Women learn to be a bit picky from a young age. Even a 15 year old may get approached by men who are in their 40s who may not realize they are jailbait.

 

I do think that OLD makes women more picky though, its like shopping. Women enjoy going and trying things on and not buying them. That drives men insane, we focus like a laser and buy what we need and get the hell out of there. And they wonder why womens stuff all costs more than mens lol

 

 

I was with you for most of this post. Mens items cost MUCH more than womens' in a store though for same quality.

 

But your premise is right. Back when I was a geeky, less in shape guy I would leap at the few women who I had to choose from, taking whoever. Now, I'm filter through the pile much more carefully. Even more so after a divorce. It becomes very clear what you don't want as you get more options and more experience.

[autumnnight]

Think about it, if an average girl walks up to an average guy who is single at a bar and says, "i want to f**k you. Lets get out of here.". Most guys would jump for it.

 

I finally figured out why I do not relate to these kinds of threads. It is because I cannot FATHOM being the kind of woman described in this quote. I have zero desire to be the woman in the above quote. And honestly, a woman who really goes up to strangers and does this....really ISN'T a 10 dollar candy bar. Not while she's doing that stuff. Now, she can grow some self respect and become a 10 dollar candy bar, but going up to strangers and saying "hey baby let's do it?"

 

Not a woman I'd want my son to be with.

 

Yep, I just judged there. And I stand by my judgement.

[ktya]

I finally figured out why I do not relate to these kinds of threads. It is because I cannot FATHOM being the kind of woman described in this quote. I have zero desire to be the woman in the above quote. And honestly, a woman who really goes up to strangers and does this....really ISN'T a 10 dollar candy bar. Not while she's doing that stuff. Now, she can grow some self respect and become a 10 dollar candy bar, but going up to strangers and saying "hey baby let's do it?"

 

Not a woman I'd want my son to be with.

 

Yep, I just judged there. And I stand by my judgement.

 

You missed my point. My point is that women have so much choice that they could probably succeed at that on the first try, not that they necessarily should or do. Because of this women learn to be much pickier from a young age (while creepy 40+ guys might try to hit on a 15 year old that happening to a 15 year old male would be exceedingly rare).

 

It is an inverse linear correlation. At sexual maturity, women can have their pick of mates all the way from boys their own age up to men just short of senile. At sexual maturity males, on the other hand are instantly competing with the entire male population. As women age, their choice decreases, as they now have to compete with younger women, while men as they age now are able to have the selection from an ever widening group of females.

 

Hence, women learn to be picky young while young men will jump on anything with two tits a hole and a heartbeat that will have them.

 

Where the OPs post (albeit in a somewhat bizarre and defeatist sort of way) addresses us his frustrations that females as they mature remain and become even more picky, even as their reproductive use diminishes along with (often) their beauty.

 

Now, an older woman has a lot more uses than her reproductive use, and modern technology and cosmetics along with a healthy lifestyle a woman in her 40s it 50s can still be very sexy. An older more experienced woman also tends to be less inhibited in bed; while a young man just at sexual maturity could make an amazingly attentive, had working and caring lover.

 

But, this is just the way that most of the world works.

[xxoo]

You missed my point. My point is that women have so much choice that they could probably succeed at that on the first try, not that they necessarily should or do. Because of this women learn to be much pickier from a young age (while creepy 40+ guys might try to hit on a 15 year old that happening to a 15 year old male would be exceedingly rare).

 

Women don't need to learn to be picky. We are picky because we don't desire sex with just anyone. When we desire sex with someone, that drive can be as strong as any man's sex drive. But it's a much more focused sex drive, while men's drives tend to be much less so.

 

And our drive becomes even more focused with age. It's not a bad thing for women, as we'll happily do without sex rather than have sex with men who don't suit the bill.

[somedude81]

 

Also the idea of an option is kind of off. MOST of the messages I receive are NOT viable options. Quantity in dating doesn't mean these are real options. But I find that many men and women, esp on LS, see this differently. Where men simply just want MORE women, regardless of more important criteria, while women are saying yes we may get more messages than men but the increased quantity isn't quality and if you're looking for something serious and perhaps not just random sex, then 50 messages where 45 of them are not what you're looking for isn't really an "option" at all.

 

Trust me...it's not like the men messaging me are mostly great men with the things I want and I'm just being super picky. THE MAJORITY are men outside of all my criteria...and this is the part which is ignored and it's presented as though we women are at the Louis Vuitton of OLD with so many great men and we're just walking over them being picky when it's more like being at a garage sale and you have to sift through a bunch of stuff to find one or two items which are to your liking.

 

Still, I'm sure you acknowledge that getting a small number of messages that are viable options, is better than getting zero messages.

 

For some reason, women seem to pretend that they never have any attractive options when it comes to dating, and that is completely untrue.

[elaine567]

Still, I'm sure you acknowledge that getting a small number of messages that are viable options, is better than getting zero messages.

 

Are women still of the opinion even on OLD, that men are supposed to do all the chasing?

[somedude81]

Are women still of the opinion even on OLD, that men are supposed to do all the chasing?

 

I'm not a woman, so I have no idea.

 

If a woman were intelligent, she would primarily do the chasing herself.

 

That's why I believe that dating is extremely easy for women.

 

The number of viable options the average woman has compared to the average man is ridiculous.

[Got it]

You missed my point. My point is that women have so much choice that they could probably succeed at that on the first try, not that they necessarily should or do. Because of this women learn to be much pickier from a young age (while creepy 40+ guys might try to hit on a 15 year old that happening to a 15 year old male would be exceedingly rare).

 

It is an inverse linear correlation. At sexual maturity, women can have their pick of mates all the way from boys their own age up to men just short of senile. At sexual maturity males, on the other hand are instantly competing with the entire male population. As women age, their choice decreases, as they now have to compete with younger women, while men as they age now are able to have the selection from an ever widening group of females.

 

Hence, women learn to be picky young while young men will jump on anything with two tits a hole and a heartbeat that will have them.

 

Where the OPs post (albeit in a somewhat bizarre and defeatist sort of way) addresses us his frustrations that females as they mature remain and become even more picky, even as their reproductive use diminishes along with (often) their beauty.

 

Now, an older woman has a lot more uses than her reproductive use, and modern technology and cosmetics along with a healthy lifestyle a woman in her 40s it 50s can still be very sexy. An older more experienced woman also tends to be less inhibited in bed; while a young man just at sexual maturity could make an amazingly attentive, had working and caring lover.

 

But, this is just the way that most of the world works.

 

But this is only based on the ability to have a one time sexual experience. If someone wants a relationship, this approach is not going to have this success rate and will usually lower it (based on other posts where men are not interested in women with a higher number of sexual partners).

 

So, sure, women have known that if it is a one time "good time" it is easier. Anything more than that the tables are turned and it is the same.

 

Why is the above used as some sort of answer for why women's lives are just so much easier when that is in the minority of what women are looking for?

[Got it]

You still don't get what men really want. If a woman wants to have a career, that's cool. A lot of men would love to have a woman that can contribute more to a relationship from a financial standpoint. I don't see a bunch of men in here saying they don't want to date a woman who has a job. What the OP is here trying to say is that he doesn't like it when a woman sleeps around with every other guy at the drop of the hat when she is younger, then when she gets older, suddenly becomes really picky and decides to make a decent guy jump through hoops to have a shot at her.

 

Many men, myself included, have no problem with a woman who wants to stay home and take care of the kids...as long as she actually does that. We aren't on here calling stay at home moms lazy unless they deserve it. Sitting home and playing on Facebook all day is not parenting. Many men would happily take care of the bills if they found a woman who was a good mother to their children. I assure you, that alone is flippin rare these days.

 

Basically, men want a woman we can be proud of. We don't generally want a woman that banged every guy in town before we got together with her. I'm sorry, we just don't. A good woman will be a partner for us, whether her contribution is working like we do, or by staying home and taking care of the house and kids.

 

 

 

I agree. I also wouldn't want her to meet my friends, either. She just wouldn't be the type of woman I'd want to be with.

 

Some of the bolded can be because the woman has realized that being the good time wasn't getting her a long time. So with age, maturity, and world experience, she realizes that having sex without much invested is not necessarily going to garner a long term relationship.

 

And isn't that what Steve Harvey advocates to women? Stop having sex and make him work for it? I thought he was your guys' spokesperson.

[ktya]

Y

Many men, myself included, have no problem with a woman who wants to stay home and take care of the kids...as long as she actually does that. We aren't on here calling stay at home moms lazy unless they deserve it. Sitting home and playing on Facebook all day is not parenting. Many men would happily take care of the bills if they found a woman who was a good mother to their children. I assure you, that alone is flippin rare these days. .

 

Amen. I looked after my ex for nearly 4 years, she always dreamed of being a stay at home mom, and she brought a young 6 year old daughter into my life. Quickly it felt like I was a single dad, and even more work than that because of the mess she made; at times i felt guilty for secretly wishing she would walk out the door and just leave the girl with me.

 

She had all the time in the world to cook food for the freezer to save us money - didnt and just bought processed food. All the time in the world to pick up after her daughters laundry, dishes - didnt. Id end up doing it when i came home from work because the place was a nightmare. All the time to clean up the house- barely even tried. Im no OCD, im talking 8 empty 2 liters of cola, 14 empty packs of cigarettes on the coffee table, candy wrappers and thats just her fav corner of the living room. Once i came home and had to fill the dishwasher and run it twice back to back. 72 cubic feet of unfolded laundry (sitting on a kitchen size table i put there to make folding easier) sitting for weeks. I wont even get into the garage, which housed her horde of junk ever since she moved in , 3-5 feet high, i couldnt see the floor at all until six months after she left.

 

Im not hijacking the thread- this is relevant because even that woman espoused what the OP laments. She had all these gripes and complaints about my behavior, how i spent my money, how i wasnt really in this family because i wouldnt open a joint bank account, how i went to my boat every couple weeks (it was called escape to me lol), how life was terrible.

 

After she left me ( yay ) she wanted to try to get back together. For the kids sake i said id consider it only if we lived in seperate houses and i got to come over for dinners and see how she lived. At the first inch i gave her there, she then sent me an email rattling of Five Pages of bloody demands. 5 pages of demands!

 

I think this attitude in general is what the OP is talking about. Someone who aint that great of a catch expecting perfection in their man. Im all for having a healthy self esteem, but we all have to be real about ourselves too.

[Got it]

I'm not a woman, so I have no idea.

 

If a woman were intelligent, she would primarily do the chasing herself.

 

That's why I believe that dating is extremely easy for women.

 

The number of viable options the average woman has compared to the average man is ridiculous.

 

Not in my area especially for women over 25. There are far more options for men than the other way around ( in regards to men looking for relationships). And many of my unmarried and/or divorced friends have said that OLD is hard to find a guy not looking for a one night stand.

[smg15]

when it comes to sex why does it always seem that some women feel they are rewarding a guy when she decides to have sex when the last time I checked sex was enjoyable for both the man and woman?

[Got it]

Amen. I looked after my ex for nearly 4 years, she always dreamed of being a stay at home mom, and she brought a young 6 year old daughter into my life. Quickly it felt like I was a single dad, and even more work than that because of the mess she made; at times i felt guilty for secretly wishing she would walk out the door and just leave the girl with me.

 

She had all the time in the world to cook food for the freezer to save us money - didnt and just bought processed food. All the time in the world to pick up after her daughters laundry, dishes - didnt. Id end up doing it when i came home from work because the place was a nightmare. All the time to clean up the house- barely even tried. Im no OCD, im talking 8 empty 2 liters of cola, 14 empty packs of cigarettes on the coffee table, candy wrappers and thats just her fav corner of the living room. Once i came home and had to fill the dishwasher and run it twice back to back. 72 cubic feet of unfolded laundry (sitting on a kitchen size table i put there to make folding easier) sitting for weeks. I wont even get into the garage, which housed her horde of junk ever since she moved in , 3-5 feet high, i couldnt see the floor at all until six months after she left.

 

Im not hijacking the thread- this is relevant because even that woman espoused what the OP laments. She had all these gripes and complaints about my behavior, how i spent my money, how i wasnt really in this family because i wouldnt open a joint bank account, how i went to my boat every couple weeks (it was called escape to me lol), how life was terrible.

 

After she left me ( yay ) she wanted to try to get back together. For the kids sake i said id consider it only if we lived in seperate houses and i got to come over for dinners and see how she lived. At the first inch i gave her there, she then sent me an email rattling of Five Pages of bloody demands. 5 pages of demands!

 

I think this attitude in general is what the OP is talking about. Someone who aint that great of a catch expecting perfection in their man. Im all for having a healthy self esteem, but we all have to be real about ourselves too.

 

So why did it take her leaving you to end the nightmare? Why didn't put down boundaries? Why would you financially support someone you weren't even married to?

 

Come on people, this is any gender, you can't be a doormat and then complain about someone walking all over you. Have some self respect, some boundaries, address issues when they come up and instead of just being happy that you have some to f*ck/keep you company, evaluate if this is a person worthy of spending time/energy with.

 

Why would you not run the other way on the first hypocritical lambasting?

[Under The Radar]

when it comes to sex why does it always seem that some women feel they are rewarding a guy when she decides to have sex when the last time I checked sex was enjoyable for both the man and woman?

 

Unless, of course, the guy suffers from premature ejaculation ......

 

...... Actually, I think the woman ends up suffering from that condition in the end

 

I'm confused, so don't listen to me

[ktya]

So why did it take her leaving you to end the nightmare? Why didn't put down boundaries? Why would you financially support someone you weren't even married to?

 

Why would you not run the other way on the first hypocritical lambasting?

 

The kid. Ever contemplate telling a 7 year old girl who looks to you as the only father figure shes ever known and loves you to bits that she has to go because her mother cant figure out how to clean house? I did, many times. Couldnt do it.

 

I just kept trying to talk common sense into the mom, it never worked and only got worse. So when she left, it was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

[Got it]

Unless, of course, the guy suffers from premature ejaculation ......

 

...... Actually, I think the woman ends up suffering from that condition in the end

 

I'm confused, so don't listen to me

 

Yes, thank you! Having had experience with this, you are definitely feeling like you got to the amusement park but didn't get to ride the coaster. God love my ex but he was very . . . . sensitive, and even with numbing agents was only good for a minute or two.

 

I did learn to have orgasms very quickly because of it. But usually it was just a . . . . phhffttt moment.

[clia]

I think this attitude in general is what the OP is talking about. Someone who aint that great of a catch expecting perfection in their man. Im all for having a healthy self esteem, but we all have to be real about ourselves too.

 

And despite all of this, you stayed with her for four years. And judging from your posting history, she's the one who dumped you. Doesn't sound like her position was that unrealistic to me...

[Maleficent]

when it comes to sex why does it always seem that some women feel they are rewarding a guy when she decides to have sex when the last time I checked sex was enjoyable for both the man and woman?

 

 

Generally, men are the one thinking/hoping that paying for a date, and being nice to a girl will end up with them getting laid.

That kind of crap...

 

Women are not the ones feeling sex is a reward. Sure some do but if we're talking in general, it's the other way around.

My ex used to say 'you have no idea to which extent a guy will go to have sex'

[Got it]

The kid. Ever contemplate telling a 7 year old girl who looks to you as the only father figure shes ever known and loves you to bits that she has to go because her mother cant figure out how to clean house? I did, many times. Couldnt do it.

 

I just kept trying to talk common sense into the mom, it never worked and only got worse. So when she left, it was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

 

Oh how this opens the door into so many other hotly debated topics. . . .

 

 

But I digress, I do understand that. But the red flags had to have been there early on. These things are very hard to spring on someone late into the game. Did you all rush into living together? I think it is a big red flag when people want to integrate their kids and dating partners. Most of the divorced parents I know do not even introduce them for months on end, some a year or so after dating to make sure that this is not someone that is going to be here today gone tomorrow.

 

Protect yourself, evaluate the person, try and look at things analytically even with all the feel good new feelings, and LOOK for the red flags. Look for how they handle conflict, how they treat other people, how they address your feelings, their feelings, other's feelings, keep one foot out for a good year and just sit back and watch.

 

At the end of the day everyone's true colors come out. Just have to have some patience and pay attention.