Why do a lot of women expect MORE for LESS?

[dreamingoftigers]

So then for 5 days week you see your daughter for about 5 hours a day? Assuming either you or her goes to bed at 10. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

 

That's because men have always been expected to work and support their family. In the thousands of years of human history, only now are women working and counting on other people to raise their kids and take care of the house.

 

Also, I believe that in the vast majority of cases it's the woman who wants to have children. So it just seems bonkers for me a woman to want kids, and then never spend time with them.

 

Yeah. She does go to bed around ten.

 

We also have just under two hours in the morning.

 

And for thousands of years blar de blar we didn't have plumbing or electricity either.

 

And did you mean other people to raise mine and HIS child?

 

You mean the full time job he DOESN'T work?

 

You mean the MAJORITY of American families where the woman is now the breadwinner?

 

Crap like this pisses me off so much.

 

Like how in the summer EVERY job interview I had except ONE asked about my family status. I was also asked questions like "are you sure this isn't too much on your family?" "do you have childcare?" "what happens with your daughter if your childcare cancels or she's sick?" "does you husband mind you working with a bunch of other guys?" "what does your husband think of this?"

 

are you fcking kidding me?

 

Women work now. Get over it.

 

If I didn't, I wouldn't be this pleasant. I couldn't afford to be.

 

Furthermore, I have a pretty decent brain. I won eight scholarships between two and three years ago. Seven of them were for top department marks in my region (Southern Alberta). I realized that it was damn sad that a hundred years ago theres a good chance I would have been refused secondary school and constrained to some guy's kitchen. All bevause shortly after my birth someone looked between my legs and it decided my future..

 

I can't imagine MY DAD picking a husband for me. With my smart mouth I would have been picking my jaw up off the floor every night before I put a well-deserved frying pan into his skull.

 

If men haven't been staying at home with the kids for thousands of years, you know what that means? It's long overdue.

 

Since when, when we are given options and freedoms in our culture, should convention amd popular opinion decide who we ought to be? Changing religion, careers and even marital partners is still more acceptable than changing household roles? Are you kidding me?

[Mister Zen]

But this thread isn't about the solutions to "everything in life". It's about what some women want in return for what they have to offer. (You should know that, since you started it.) As it happens, the "just walk away" option works just fine when the women are asking for more than you're prepared to give.

 

Luckily, as you noted originally, not all women are the same. I suspect you really just said that as a way to deflect any accusations that you're somehow attacking women, but since it's true that not all women are the same then instead of "just walk away" you also have the option of seeing what's on offer from the other group of women and striking a bargain with one of them. Maybe one of them will like whatever it is that you have to offer.

 

Again.. why do we have to avoid discussing the flawed women I'm talking about? Are we in elementary school where no one can talk about anything heavy?

[dreamingoftigers]

And how did those kids turn out? What do you do when they call the nanny "mommy"?

 

Sad thing is that it's common place now a days.

 

No one getting paid minimum wage is gonna care for your kids like you do. A gf of mine on more than one occasion complained about school teachers and/or day care doing this or that and I'd just sit in silence.

 

Yeah, sure, "commonplace."

 

It didn't happen here and you are wrong on all counts.

 

She never called my friend, who runs the dayhome, making about triple what I would spend on subsidized daycare, "Mommy."

She knows who Mommy is. She loves Mommy and we do our cuddling playing etc.

 

You really think daycare kids don't know who MOM is? You myst not have kids.

If you decide to have them with a woman that works, I hope that you have the income privilege of staying at home with them.

 

We, like most families, don't have that option.

 

Does this forum post back to 1954 or something?

 

Are you all the MLM guys that made it rich?

[somedude81]

Wow, you got hostile fast.

 

You mean the full time job he DOESN'T work?

 

I wasn't aware that your husband doesn't work.

 

That's definitely not the norm.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah.. and you represent the majority of women since when?

 

And you understand the majority of women?

 

Since when?

 

I haven't even seen a single woman in this thread you've resonated with.

[Mister Zen]

Neither are mine. There are men here who associate relationships with prostitution, and they're usually the same men who insult women. They see no value in a woman, aside from her looks and her age (youth).

 

All you talk about is the negative behavior of men. But when the negative behavior of women is pointed out.. you either defend it, attack the person pointing it out, or have nothing to say.

 

Why is that?

[dreamingoftigers]

I have never heard of anybody calling a stay-at-home mom a lazy, useless leach or anything like that.

 

If I ever get married and have kids, I would want my wife to focus her time and effort on the kids.

 

Cripes, half of the "hate-on-women" threads have a post or two in that vein.

 

My favorite one (I think it was marriedman321 (sp)) yakking about how his wife mooches off of him spends his money blardeblar and then talked about how awful it is that women work/thereby neglecting the kids. When I pointed out that you can't have it both ways he posted some lame article about how "a majority of women would prefer not to work." As if that really sorted out the context for that.

 

So you are either living off of HIS money or you are failing HIS children.

 

Well played "gentlemen," well played.

[sweetjasmine]

Wow, you got hostile fast.

 

DOT is a working mom, and you've basically said that people like her are doing their children a disservice and are bonkers for having kids and "never spending any time with them."

 

Exactly what kind of reaction did you expect? "You're right. I'm a failure as a mother. I'm going to quit my job!" ?

[Mister Zen]

No, that was because the tactics you were talking about cause (or could potentially cause) direct emotional harm to others. It wasn't the sex itself that made people believe you wouldn't deserve (or obtain) a serious relationship down the line.

 

Cutting off sex from men or making them jump threw extra hoops for it is also emotionally harmful. But in those cases.. since a woman is doing it to a man.. he has no business complaining. He needs to "deal with it" Right?

 

Men are not allowed to do anything to women that can have a negative emotional impact on them. If he does.. he is scum. But women can do whatever they want to men.. and if men don't like it.. they are "whining" or should walk away, or "are picking the wrong women" etc.

 

I think the double standards bother me more than anything else I post about.

[Els]

If I ever get married and have kids, I would want my wife to focus her time and effort on the kids.

 

You had better put a LOT more effort into your career than you're currently doing if that is something that you want.

 

Do you know how much it costs to support even a medium-sized family (2 adults and 2 kids) nowadays? Do you think you would be capable of earning that much singlehandedly?

[Mister Zen]

And you understand the majority of women?

 

Since when?

 

I haven't even seen a single woman in this thread you've resonated with.

 

With my PUA tactics I have dated and slept with a lot of women in the last 10 years.

 

I base my opinions off of that.. as well as the other women I observe through friends and at work. I see the relationships my male friends have with women too.

[sillyanswer]

Again.. why do we have to avoid discussing the flawed women I'm talking about? Are we in elementary school where no one can talk about anything heavy?

 

There seem to be two groups of women in your first post who I think you are describing as flawed: those in less romantic/less sex-filled relationships than before, and those who used to be promiscuous who are now less promiscuous and now have higher standards when looking for romantic/sexual partners.

 

I'm happy talking about either, or both.

 

The first group you've identified as existing... but I don't know why those relationships go off the boil or where the fault (if there is any) rests. Do you have a theory? I think that you're putting the blame on the women, or at least perhaps you're only referring to such relationships where it's the woman who is "flawed", so I think you must have a theory about this. What is it? We can talk about it.

 

As for the second group, I'm not sure where the flaw is here. These are women who have changed their views on what sort of sex to have or on what sort of relationships to have as a result of their experiences as they have moved through life and are now looking for something "serious" (your word from the first post). What's wrong with someone changing in this way? Must they always remain the same? I disagree with you that this group of women is "flawed", but I'm happy to talk about women who want to have a serious relationship even though this wasn't what they wanted when they are younger. I think we've talked about it a bit already, so what would you like to talk about next on this topic?

[somedude81]

DOT is a working mom, and you've basically said that people like her are doing their children a disservice and are bonkers for having kids and "never spending any time with them."

 

Exactly what kind of reaction did you expect? "You're right. I'm a failure as a mother. I'm going to quit my job!" ?

 

And in the very next sentence I wrote, "I wasn't aware that your husband doesn't work."

 

That seemed to be missing from the post of mine that you quoted......

 

 

 

Do you know how much it costs to support even a medium-sized family (2 adults and 2 kids) nowadays?

 

Nope.

 

Do you think you would be capable of earning that much singlehandedly?

 

That's my goal.

[Mister Zen]

Cripes, half of the "hate-on-women" threads have a post or two in that vein.

 

My favorite one (I think it was marriedman321 (sp)) yakking about how his wife mooches off of him spends his money blardeblar and then talked about how awful it is that women work/thereby neglecting the kids. When I pointed out that you can't have it both ways he posted some lame article about how "a majority of women would prefer not to work." As if that really sorted out the context for that.

 

So you are either living off of HIS money or you are failing HIS children.

 

Well played "gentlemen," well played.

 

A lot of today's women want men to fulfill traditional gender roles... while at the same time they have no interest in fullfilling traditional female gender roles themselves.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow, you got hostile fast.

 

 

I wasn't aware that your husband doesn't work.

 

That's definitely not the norm.

 

A few things here:

 

1. Yes I am extremely defensive about work. I have worked at least one job my entire afult life aside from when my husband and I met and travelled.

 

2. I was raised by a workaholic and a couch-warmer. That is not the same as a home-maker. I saw the mooching first hand. Although my father was an abusive drunk, he wasn't abusive to her. And she wanted her things. Her parents supported her for three decades very well plus my father's workaholism and together they pissed away money left and right. I was determined to make my own way and not just be some lazy b*tch and make my own future. My daughter deserves to see that in action as well.

 

3. Despite the obvious with my husband having been homeless when we met and married, I was a pretty naive 22 year old and thought he matched me in ambition. He doesn't. He talks a pretty good game though. What typically happens with him is that he does well at a place, works it full time plus some, invests in, expects more back from it, tires of it and leaves.

He has pissed away more Golden Opportunities than I will ever have.

 

4. He has worked. Just not consistently. The job he has held the longest is the one I currently work at. He has been there a year.

 

5. He has significantly injured his back in September. I don't hold this against him or anything. But it has been damn tough on one imcome and church help.

I will be very frank. He has contributed MORE to this family since the injury ironically. He has been much more pleasant to deal with and truthfully he has been going out panhandling. We would not have made it at all otherwise. I hate to say it. He's a legit panner at the moment looking to go back to work in February if his MRI checks out. He can't stay out long dyring the day because the pain gets to be too much and he can't barely walk. But he won't see me pull alone and he can't watch our girl all day.

 

We have a joke that if I would have known he'd be this pleasant, I would have pushed him down the stairs years ago.

[sweetjasmine]

A lot of today's women want men to fulfill traditional gender roles... while at the same time they have no interest in fullfilling traditional female gender roles themselves.

 

A lot of men are simply incapable of fulfilling their traditional gender role, but they expect women to happily revert back to 1950 and forgive their men for failing to meet their end of the agreement.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Cutting off sex from men or making them jump threw extra hoops for it is also emotionally harmful. But in those cases.. since a woman is doing it to a man.. he has no business complaining. He needs to "deal with it" Right?

 

Men are not allowed to do anything to women that can have a negative emotional impact on them. If he does.. he is scum. But women can do whatever they want to men.. and if men don't like it.. they are "whining" or should walk away, or "are picking the wrong women" etc.

 

I think the double standards bother me more than anything else I post about.

 

I really hope you keep an extinguisher handy because you're likely to start a fire with all that straw.

 

Also, it's absolutely hilarious that you think the suggestion of walking away from a woman who behaves in a way you don't like is somehow ridiculous.

 

The truth is, you are whining. This thread is all over the place and you don't seem to have any discernible point. Plus, you are a single man with no girlfriend and no prospects complaining about the behaviors you perceive married women to engage in...

[Mister Zen]

There seem to be two groups of women in your first post who I think you are describing as flawed: those in less romantic/less sex-filled relationships than before, and those who used to be promiscuous who are now less promiscuous and now have higher standards when looking for romantic/sexual partners.

 

I'm happy talking about either, or both.

 

The first group you've identified as existing... but I don't know why those relationships go off the boil or where the fault (if there is any) rests. Do you have a theory? I think that you're putting the blame on the women, or at least perhaps you're only referring to such relationships where it's the woman who is "flawed", so I think you must have a theory about this. What is it? We can talk about it.

 

As for the second group, I'm not sure where the flaw is here. These are women who have changed their views on what sort of sex to have or on what sort of relationships to have as a result of their experiences as they have moved through life and are now looking for something "serious" (your word from the first post). What's wrong with someone changing in this way? Must they always remain the same? I disagree with you that this group of women is "flawed", but I'm happy to talk about women who want to have a serious relationship even though this wasn't what they wanted when they are younger. I think we've talked about it a bit already, so what would you like to talk about next on this topic?

 

No problem. Lets discuss my theories on both groups then:

 

Group 1:

 

I think the first group is just opportunistic and dishonest. Plain and simple. And I will cut and paste what I said earlier about this group:

 

Once this woman marries and/or has a baby with a man the man becomes her slave sanctioned by law. Why should women maintain their weight, be respectful, and have regular sex for a slave?

 

Once this woman has secured a man, she owns him...she has no obligation to please him anymore and gradually she won't.

 

Group 2:

 

My theory on them is delusion. In their youth they sleep with the hot, wealthy, famous guys they meet any chance they get. Men in bands, druggies, etc. For the novelty. Then they lower their standards somewhat to "bad boys" and felons and other losers because its "exciting". Then between 27-33 when they realize once and for all that the fantasy Disney life they dreamt of is never, ever, ever, going to happen....(of course the woman has done nothing active to bring this life about but that would be too logical for her to comprehend ) suddenly she is ready to get "serious" and jack up the price of sex.. making the "nice guy" jump throw hoops, etc.

 

I hold the opinion that a woman who lived such a life has lowered her value and doesn't necessarily deserve the royal treatment. On top of that.. her value is also lower because she is older and less attractive.

 

A key that can open many locks is a useful key. A lock that can be opened by many keys is a useless lock. Why charge the same as a good lock?

[Mister Zen]

I really hope you keep an extinguisher handy because you're likely to start a fire with all that straw.

 

Also, it's absolutely hilarious that you think the suggestion of walking away from a woman who behaves in a way you don't like is somehow ridiculous.

 

The truth is, you are whining. This thread is all over the place and you don't seem to have any discernible point. Plus, you are a single man with no girlfriend and no prospects complaining about the behaviors you perceive married women to engage in...

 

There is a pattern here where any criticism a person gives is labeled "whining". You are not allowed to criticize bad behavior.. especially female behavior. I got the memo.. I just don't care. So I will keep doing it and you can call it "whining" if you want.

 

What is REALLY interesting is how you have a bigger issue with my "whining" than you do with the behavior of the toxic women I describe.

 

Telling.

[somedude81]

Once this woman marries and/or has a baby with a man the man becomes her slave sanctioned by law. Why should women maintain their weight, be respectful, and have regular sex for a slave?

 

Once this woman has secured a man, she owns him...she has no obligation to please him anymore and gradually she won't.

 

Wow dude, you must really hate women. I also get that you are scared that a woman would control you.

 

You also seem to have a very low opinion on relationships and men in general as well.

[Els]

Nope.

 

That's my goal.

 

Might be a good idea to start planning forward. It isn't really something that you can do comfortably on the average income, nowadays.

[Mister Zen]

A lot of men are simply incapable of fulfilling their traditional gender role, but they expect women to happily revert back to 1950 and forgive their men for failing to meet their end of the agreement.

 

You have a lot to learn and you don't even realize it.

 

Feminism was invented in the 18th century by the mill owners in England in order to bring women out of the relative seclusion of the home and into the work force in order to bring down the wages of the men.

 

However, it took until modern times to find a propaganda tool powerful enough to convince women that it was stupid to stay home and work for their family. TV made it possible.

 

This is the reason why the Rockefeller foundation backed US feminism..women are easily manipulated by elite men....and most men are easily manipulated by women.

 

Not to mention, most teachers are women, so boys grow up in emasculated environments without any real male role models. Then they become wimps and nice guys who are on the receiving end of female bullies playing the role of "girlfriend" and "wife".

[Mister Zen]

Wow dude, you must really hate women. I also get that you are scared that a woman would control you.

 

You also seem to have a very low opinion on relationships and men in general as well.

 

What do you mean WOW?

 

Give me a counter argument or don't respond. Attack the argument not the messanger. If you can't attack the argument then what are you "wowing" about?

[somedude81]

What do you mean WOW?

 

Give me a counter argument or don't respond. Attack the argument not the messanger. If you can't attack the argument then what are you "wowing" about?

 

Uh, I'm making an observation about you.

 

The "wow" was at my realization that you hate women. There were signs of it before, but now it's completely clear. You are also scared of women as well.

 

Now you can make a counter argument about why you feel that I am wrong

[sweetjasmine]

You have a lot to learn and you don't even realize it.

 

Feminism was invented in the 18th century by the mill owners in England in order to bring women out of the relative seclusion of the home and into the work force in order to bring down the wages of the men.

 

However, it took until modern times to find a propaganda tool powerful enough to convince women that it was stupid to stay home and work for their family. TV made it possible.

 

This is the reason why the Rockefeller foundation backed US feminism..women are easily manipulated by elite men....and most men are easily manipulated by women.

 

Not to mention, most teachers are women, so boys grow up in emasculated environments without any real male role models. Then they become wimps and nice guys who are on the receiving end of female bullies playing the role of "girlfriend" and "wife".

 

But what about the Rothschilds and Bilderbergs and the Illuminati and the lizard people?