The Hierarchy of Submission to God

[Anela]

You tell em, M30USA.

 

 

I'm tired of women thinking they can just 'do as they please' without checking with a man first.

 

There's a special place in hell for people like Susan B. Anthony and other women's rights advocates.

 

To not submit to a man is to punch a first class ticket to hell.

 

 

You girls better start thinking twice when challenging a man. It's all fun and games until your soul is condemned for eternity.

 

Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

 

.........

[todreaminblue]

I think if everyone followed what was in their hearts then theres no problem...if you want to follow jesus follow him if you believe the words in the bible follow them..if you dont believe its right or true dont follow..you cannot deep down influence a hearts inherent desire to do anything.....submit or not submit...thats on them....as far as submission goes.....to a husband he has to be doing the right thing ....if he isnt choosing right .....then you shouldnt submit.....not by gods laws....the bible is full of families who either half of them turned to god or even one fo them turned to god .....and went against their family and friends......their parents......we all choose our own path.....thats what agency is for to choose the path we want to be on.......we are supposed to pray......find out for ourselves what is right...in a marriage shouldnt man and wife pray together to make important decisions.....

 

i wont ridicule another's choice ....i am often harassed about mine...it gets old...just makes me know i am on the right one for me....if there wasnt opposition....there wouldnt be supplication...if there wasnt doubt and deceit....there would be no truth or honesty....truth is most of the time always known..as is deceit....you cant fool your own heart........in your heart...you know what is true for you..and submission if ever given ....is done out of love...people who submit their will to god..out of faith ...out of love....out of hope.....no control there...just agency to choose....deb

Edited December 13, 2014 by todreaminblue

[M30USA]

I was told by a Christian family member, that I would go to hell if I didn't pray.

 

Ask him/her to show you where it says that in the Bible. The only thing that will send a person to hell is failure to accept the one avenue by which God has appointed that all people must come through: Jesus.

[autumnnight]

II Tim 3:16 (I believe) says that ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for teaching for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. Joshua 1 and Psalm 1 have a lot to say about the truth and importance of God's Word as well.

 

So for me it's simple. It's in God's Word. Am I going to believe and obey it or reject it?

 

And if I'm going to go all cafeteria with the Bible, then how do I know I'm right about which parts are real and which ones are not? And what if I happen to reject a really important part (like what Jesus said in John 14:6) by mistake?

 

Just makes a whole lot more sense to me to put my money where my mouth is and if I SAY I'm a Christian to go ahead and believe His Word.

[Tiger Lily]

OP, of course people have a stronger reaction to a wife submitting to her husband. Can you not see the challenges wives face? It's much easier for a man to submit to God, a child to submit to a parent, or a citizen to submit to a government because the power differential is so much greater.

 

But husbands and wives are basically peers. In fact, sometimes (believe it or not) some wives are much smarter and wiser than their husbands! Submitting to someone who is flawed and may knowingly be making a wrong decision is not easy. Wives are bound by the marriage contract according to the bible, and may only divorce in the event of infidelity. So what do they do when they have a lying husband who uses manipulation to achieve certain goals, at the expense of his wife? Do you think that it's easy for wives to go along with that?!

 

You don't seem to have any compassion for the fact that wives can have a hard time with this. Your post seems to just demand that the hierarchy be followed without any understanding of how difficult it can be at times. That lack of compassion for the wife's point of view gives some insight into the destruction of your own marriage.

[todreaminblue]

OP, of course people have a stronger reaction to a wife submitting to her husband. Can you not see the challenges wives face? It's much easier for a man to submit to God, a child to submit to a parent, or a citizen to submit to a government because the power differential is so much greater.

 

But husbands and wives are basically peers. In fact, sometimes (believe it or not) some wives are much smarter and wiser than their husbands! Submitting to someone who is flawed and may knowingly be making a wrong decision is not easy. Wives are bound by the marriage contract according to the bible, and may only divorce in the event of infidelity. So what do they do when they have a lying husband who uses manipulation to achieve certain goals, at the expense of his wife? Do you think that it's easy for wives to go along with that?!

 

You don't seem to have any compassion for the fact that wives can have a hard time with this. Your post seems to just demand that the hierarchy be followed without any understanding of how difficult it can be at times. That lack of compassion for the wife's point of view gives some insight into the destruction of your own marriage.

 

i wish i knew the verse in the bible i cant name it....but it says about the treatment of wives......i will try and find it......just because we submit.....doesnt mean we should be ill treated.....or thought less of.....

 

the marriage vows that are said even both parties say them not just one.......

 

 

for we are all gods daughters and should be treated as such....and he is a just father......something like this.......any man who shall be the cause of a tear to fall shall answer to god....isnt that beautiful...

 

 

 

all men will answer for the treatment of their wives.......as all wives shall answer to the treatment of their husbands...no one ....gets away with anything unless of course they truly are remorseful and know they have done wrong..and repent......if they read the bible they should have remorse...submission doesnt equal license to mistreat anyone..........deb

[autumnnight]

This is How I have always seen it:

 

God

I

I

I

I

 

v

Man---------------Wife

Children

 

The man and wife are on equal footing with equal importance but share differing responsibilities/roles maybe? I'm not expressing myself well here and I have no idea if that little makeshift thing will look right on a post.

[Tiger Lily]

i wish i knew the verse in the bible i cant name it....but it says about the treatment of wives......i will try and find it......just because we submit.....doesnt mean we should be ill treated.....or thought less of.....

 

You're so right, deb. I heard a pastor's wife giving a talk on the radio one day, and she mentioned how, even when a flawed husband does something we don't agree with, we still have the responsibility to do our part, which is submission. It's not easy, but that is what we're called to do.

 

I'm glad you brought up the fact that everyone will answer for their treatment of their spouses one day. It's very true that "revenge" isn't ours to take now (meaning, we can't punish for a husband's poor behavior), but God will make sure everything comes out right in the end.

 

I think the problem people have is because they don't really understand the use of the word submit in this context. In that same chapter, God says to "submit to one another in love." When we think of submit in modern terms we think of subjugation or being bossed around. We think maybe in terms of a job hierarchy where the employee has less power or worth than the boss.

 

That is not what submit means. It's more about respect and honor and plain old practical speaking. I believe in Biblical submission and you better believe I am not some weaky shrinking violet. I have a voice and opinions and expertise. It isn't about letting some man keep me in line and telling me what to do. It is about respecting a man who love Jesus and loves me and coming alongside him in support.

 

I agree that "submission" means many different things to different people.

 

IMO, I think a Christian wife chooses to submit, meaning she is actively choosing to act in a certain way, despite the fact that she could easily exert her will if she wanted to. So it's not like she doesn't have the ability to have an opinion! She just chooses to allow her husband to have the final word if there is a difference of opinion. It may look like a position of weakness from the outside. But the can be a lot of power in it, as it establishes a firm foundation for a healthy marriage and partnership.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Tiger Lily

[TheFinalWord]

M30USA,

 

I know what you are saying, but you have sort of presented this in a way that is a bit hostile. Submission is a natural response to servant leadership. No disrespect, because I know your intentions are good, but the way you are presenting it I would pretty much expect people to resist.

 

This is also a concept that it is of little use arguing with unbelievers about. For this principle to work correctly, both husband and wife first must submit to God.

 

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

If you want to discuss this, it would be better to study the role of the husband and how to treat one's wife. Peter said that God will not acknowledge the prayer of a husband that does not love his wife. So, as leaders, it is our job to make sure we are doing our part right, and the rest will take care of itself. It is obvious men have failed at this. Jesus said that Moses permitted divorce because the men's hearts were hard (stubborn).

 

Even among Christians, many will not accept these doctrines.

 

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so... The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

[todreaminblue]

M30USA,

 

I know what you are saying, but you have sort of presented this in a way that is a bit hostile. Submission is a natural response to servant leadership. No disrespect, because I know your intentions are good, but the way you are presenting it I would pretty much expect people to resist.

 

This is also a concept that it is of little use arguing with unbelievers about. For this principle to work correctly, both husband and wife first must submit to God.

 

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

If you want to discuss this, it would be better to study the role of the husband and how to treat one's wife. Peter said that God will not acknowledge the prayer of a husband that does not love his wife. So, as leaders, it is our job to make sure we are doing our part right, and the rest will take care of itself. It is obvious men have failed at this. Jesus said that Moses permitted divorce because the men's hearts were hard (stubborn).

 

Even among Christians, many will not accept these doctrines.

 

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so... The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

 

 

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [/b]to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

 

beautiful thankyou final word........hugs...deb

[pureinheart]

M30USA,

 

I know what you are saying, but you have sort of presented this in a way that is a bit hostile. Submission is a natural response to servant leadership. No disrespect, because I know your intentions are good, but the way you are presenting it I would pretty much expect people to resist.

 

Can't the truth appear hostile though?

 

 

This is also a concept that it is of little use arguing with unbelievers about. For this principle to work correctly, both husband and wife first must submit to God.

 

Amen

 

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

Amen

 

If you want to discuss this, it would be better to study the role of the husband and how to treat one's wife. Peter said that God will not acknowledge the prayer of a husband that does not love his wife. So, as leaders, it is our job to make sure we are doing our part right, and the rest will take care of itself. It is obvious men have failed at this. Jesus said that Moses permitted divorce because the men's hearts were hard (stubborn).

 

The Word also says not to provoke to anger, most likely due to the fact that He knows our 'humanness'. Being an ornery female, and beyond a handful, I have to take my part of the 'blame'.

 

Even among Christians, many will not accept these doctrines.

 

No doubt, given the amount of D's among the Christian community.

 

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so... The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

 

Amen...this one I avoid- too convicting, except for the part that it's better not to marry. I was just thinking of this 'part' this morning. A mate would take my time from the Lord- walking and chewing gum isn't always the easiest for me.

 

My heart was too hard to forgive, and I knew deep down the EMA's would continue, but I have no way to prove it.

 

TFW, not going to mince words here. Men are getting screwed and have been for several years now. They can't win no matter what in most cases...I see it all of the time.

[M30USA]

TFW, I also know what you're saying. You and I, while generally teaching the same message, have a different approach. People who hate God and hate all God's truth will hate it no matter how it's presented--whether gently or bluntly. Its the message they hate, not the delivery. In fact, the risk of a gentle approach is that, in being gentle, you risk them not hearing the full truth. I've seen this countless times. At least the person who hears the blunt truth, while they may reject it and be offended at first, it leaves a seed so that, when the Holy Spirit finally speaks to them, they have heard truths.

 

Here is a good video which, I suppose, captures the difference in approach:

 

[Ronni_W]

God has created a hierarchy whereby each person shows their obedience to God by submitting to the person/persons directly above him/her. We do not like this concept, especially in the egalitarian Western world.

 

The hierarchy is as follows:

 

God/Christ

Man

Woman

Children

This is inaccurate. The ONLY surrendering that is required from human beings, is to surrender our individual ego's will to the Will of the individual God Presence within each one of us (the kingdom of God is WITHIN), which communicates through our own inner Higher Self, or Christ Self, or Holy Spirit, or Comforter (call it what you will).

 

"The kingdom of God is WITHIN"...for male AND female human beings. For a female person to set-up a male person as the "god" to whom she surrenders, is for her to break the Spiritual Laws (commandments) that require her to have NO other God before her ONE TRUE GOD, to not worship idols, to not serve mammon.

 

Human men might WANT to see themselves as gods, but they are not any more so than women are goddesses. The Alpha and Omega aspects of God have different roles and functions, but are absolutely equally powerful in every way. The One cannot Be what it is without the other; and the Other cannot do what it does, without the One.

 

God's Will for ALL his creations/children/sons AND daughters equally, is for us to raise our consciousness to the level of the Christ Mind, or Cosmic Christ, or Universal Christ Consciousness. ("What I can do, you can do and more.") After that, once we each attained our own, individual Christhood, then we have the opportunity to start working towards Buddhic Consciousness.

 

It's not in the Christian Bible because that was given for people 2,000 years ago, for the level of consciousness at that time, for the Jews and non-Jews of that time. That's why Jesus had to talk in parables all the time...but so that people with ears to hear, could hear the deeper Truths in his Word.

 

It is time for us to start looking at and living up to and striving to attain the levels of the LIVING Word, not just keep our consciousness at the level of what has long past become the dead word; sealed in books written 2,000 years ago.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ronni_W
spelling

[pureinheart]

TFW, I also know what you're saying. You and I, while generally teaching the same message, have a different approach. People who hate God and hate all God's truth will hate it no matter how it's presented--whether gently or bluntly. Its the message they hate, not the delivery. In fact, the risk of a gentle approach is that, in being gentle, you risk them not hearing the full truth. I've seen this countless times. At least the person who hears the blunt truth, while they may reject it and be offended at first, it leaves a seed so that, when the Holy Spirit finally speaks to them, they have heard truths.

 

Here is a good video which, I suppose, captures the difference in approach:

 

 

In the various situations I've had to deal with lately, I was cautioned to approach it in a 'nice' manor. Normally I do, although something inside said to address the garbage head on and I did. At that time, being very tired, having a million and one things to do, AND not understanding the process I was engaging in fully, I trusted my gut feeling.

 

It turns out, had I not dealt with this matter in what some would consider 'harsh' (just using your terminology TFW, but not directing this comment at you), I would have missed what God had for me- time was of the essence, so much so that a one day delay would have been disastrous.

 

Then back to back there was another situation that required the same action. FTR I was dealing with lies, big time deception and greed.

 

IMO there is a time and place- when dealing with the world these days one can't always be nice, unfortunately.

[pureinheart]

I need to say this, it is completely off topic.

 

TFW and M30, I need to thank the two of you. If it weren't for your teachings, I can honestly say I would not be where I am today. It is a much better place.

 

This song comes to mind: Thank you, for giving to the Lord, for I have a life that is changed...and so on

 

You two are radical men of God and I thank Jesus for you both everyday. God Bless you and have a very, Merry Christmas!

[TheFinalWord]

Can't the truth appear hostile though?

 

I believe so. Hostile may not have been the best word, more of "in your face" without the proper context and to an audience not ready to receive it.

 

TFW' date=' not going to mince words here. Men are getting screwed and have been for several years now. They can't win no matter what in most cases...I see it all of the time.[/quote']

 

No disagreement there.

 

TFW, I also know what you're saying. You and I, while generally teaching the same message, have a different approach. People who hate God and hate all God's truth will hate it no matter how it's presented--whether gently or bluntly. Its the message they hate, not the delivery. In fact, the risk of a gentle approach is that, in being gentle, you risk them not hearing the full truth. I've seen this countless times. At least the person who hears the blunt truth, while they may reject it and be offended at first, it leaves a seed so that, when the Holy Spirit finally speaks to them, they have heard truths.

 

Well, I see evangelism and bible teaching as two different things. Evangelism is sharing the good news with unbelievers while bible teaching is imparting doctrine and providing application to believers. When teaching people biblical doctrine, I believe there are approaches that work better than others.

 

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Anyway, I don't want to spam your thread.

[Els]

Wait, did someone just say that the book of Ezekiel supports evidence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

 

RAmen, praise be to His Noodliness!

 

(Better remember to wear my pasta colander headdress more often)

[Els]

M30USA,

 

I know what you are saying, but you have sort of presented this in a way that is a bit hostile. Submission is a natural response to servant leadership. No disrespect, because I know your intentions are good, but the way you are presenting it I would pretty much expect people to resist.

 

This is also a concept that it is of little use arguing with unbelievers about. For this principle to work correctly, both husband and wife first must submit to God.

 

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

If you want to discuss this, it would be better to study the role of the husband and how to treat one's wife. Peter said that God will not acknowledge the prayer of a husband that does not love his wife. So, as leaders, it is our job to make sure we are doing our part right, and the rest will take care of itself. It is obvious men have failed at this. Jesus said that Moses permitted divorce because the men's hearts were hard (stubborn).

 

Even among Christians, many will not accept these doctrines.

 

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so... The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

 

Anyway... yeah. Most reasonable Christians I know (like yourself) view the wives/husbands instructions by the Bible as a mutual thing. It isn't a "Ha! See, Bible says you submit to me! Down with egalitarianism! :rolleyes:" thing at all.

 

Having spent a couple of decades in church, my observation is that they exhort wives to submit to their husbands, yes, but they also exhort husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church. Given that Christians believe that Christ literally gave his life for the church, this is a big thing. It's the ultimate sacrifice of self.

 

My guess is that these reasonable Christians view the relationship between husband and wife as one in which the husband loves his wife to the extent of being willing to sacrifice his life for his family if need be, and in reciprocation the wife submits to her husband because she trusts that he loves his family and God so much that every decision he makes will prioritize them.

 

I'm not sure whether I agree with even this arrangement, but it's much more reasonable, and I certainly think it's one that the OP could do well to strive for himself, and to be that husband, if he desires such a wife.

[M30USA]

I need to say this, it is completely off topic.

 

TFW and M30, I need to thank the two of you. If it weren't for your teachings, I can honestly say I would not be where I am today. It is a much better place.

 

This song comes to mind: Thank you, for giving to the Lord, for I have a life that is changed...and so on

 

You two are radical men of God and I thank Jesus for you both everyday. God Bless you and have a very, Merry Christmas!

 

Thank you. I do believe TFW's knowledge of the Bible from cover to cover is better than mine. All I've ever claimed up be good at is sniffing out BS. In a world where truth is everywhere and righteousness is natural in the hearts of people, I would run out of work.

Edited December 13, 2014 by M30USA

[MrNate 2.0]

I guess the same applies if a man does not love his woman as much as Jesus loves the church. Then he would get a first class ticket to hell? But so many men in the church do not love their wives in this way. They're controlling, manipulative, and shove and push their wives. Feminists exist because men do not do their job in caring for their wives in the first place. You guys better think twice when hurting a woman and controlling her. It's all fun and games until your soul is condemned for eternity.

 

You must not post here often.

[Ronni_W]

Then back to back there was another situation that required the same action. FTR I was dealing with lies, big time deception and greed.

 

IMO there is a time and place- when dealing with the world these days one can't always be nice, unfortunately.

pureinheart,

That is EXACTLY what Jesus was trying to demonstrate, when he overturned the tables of the money changers, and challenged the pharisees head-on. He was never passive about standing up for the Truth and for ALL people, or rooting out/revealing corruption, evil and any straying from the Light.

 

I wish to acknowledge you for being the open door for Christ and for the Holy Spirit in these situations...and not letting your ego's "shoulds and shouldn'ts" get in the way. We all ought to be striving for this.

 

God bless.

[M30USA]

Ronni, perhaps you should consider that I'm not speaking my own opinion regarding what anyone "should or shouldn't do", but rather relaying what's been in the Bible for 2,000-4,000 years. Nothing new here.

[SycamoreCircle]

It has been my observation that when Christians begin evangelizing they are actually questioning their own belief. They want people to scrutinize, mock and repudiate their regurgitation of doctrine. They ALWAYS walk away more solidified in their beliefs. They MOST USUALLY walk away having annoyed someone else.

[Ronni_W]

Ronni, perhaps you should consider that I'm not speaking my own opinion regarding what anyone "should or shouldn't do", but rather relaying what's been in the Bible for 2,000-4,000 years. Nothing new here.

M30,

My "shoulds and shouldn'ts" comment was not directed at anything you've said; I was making an entirely different point, in response to pureinheart's recent experiences. I'm WELL aware that you're working from a 2,000-year old text. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

I do realize that you are merely expressing your own interpretation and/or current beliefs...no need to explain or apologize.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Ronni_W

[M30USA]

It has been my observation that when Christians begin evangelizing they are actually questioning their own belief. They want people to scrutinize, mock and repudiate their regurgitation of doctrine. They ALWAYS walk away more solidified in their beliefs. They MOST USUALLY walk away having annoyed someone else.

 

This could be said about any and all encounters where any truth is discussed.

 

Thus we have a rise in postmodernism where people are literally afraid to say that 2+2=5 when asked. I'm not kidding. I've seen documentaries on college campuses where this exact thing happens.